Modern is as sustainable as they choose to make it, exactly because as you say there is no reserved list.
I'm not going to have to break out the list of Standard cards making an impact on Modern am I? You dont need to reprint Bob in a core set to 'sustain Modern' I mean the simple reality is that Modern IS self sustaining. No format brings in more viewers, nor has as much interest.
Modern is as sustainable as they choose to make it, exactly because as you say there is no reserved list.
I'm not going to have to break out the list of Standard cards making an impact on Modern am I? You dont need to reprint Bob in a core set to 'sustain Modern' I mean the simple reality is that Modern IS self sustaining. No format brings in more viewers, nor has as much interest.
Arena is training wheels Magic, thats fine.
I'm not aiming this at you, just I see this statement from a lot of people who forgot how the game was when modern was still young. Yes, they do have to print Bob eventually, because they can only create so many permutations of cards using the same design space. It's not about if cards are making an impact on modern from standard, it's how many there are and what cards also pair with it to make that impact. You can show me the entire list if you want from Kaladesh to now, it isn't going to change the reality of the statement.
If wizards did a better job reprinting cards there wouldn't be a single complaint about modern, but they provably can't. For goodness sakes three of those cards are commons / uncommons and this is just one example.
Here is how they "fix" this situation: have people get IR codes for points per booster pack and have a trade in system that lets people trade points for rares and mythics. Probably one booster box for a single mythic across anything or two rares across anything. They let people redeem MTGO collections (or used to), might as well let people do it for boosters. But that is going off subject.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern is as sustainable as they choose to make it, exactly because as you say there is no reserved list.
I'm not going to have to break out the list of Standard cards making an impact on Modern am I? You dont need to reprint Bob in a core set to 'sustain Modern' I mean the simple reality is that Modern IS self sustaining. No format brings in more viewers, nor has as much interest.
Arena is training wheels Magic, thats fine.
I'm not aiming this at you, just I see this statement from a lot of people who forgot how the game was when modern was still young. Yes, they do have to print Bob eventually, because they can only create so many permutations of cards using the same design space. It's not about if cards are making an impact on modern from standard, it's how many there are and what cards also pair with it to make that impact. You can show me the entire list if you want from Kaladesh to now, it isn't going to change the reality of the statement.
If wizards did a better job reprinting cards there wouldn't be a single complaint about modern, but they provably can't. For goodness sakes three of those cards are commons / uncommons and this is just one example.
Here is how they "fix" this situation: have people get IR codes for points per booster pack and have a trade in system that lets people trade points for rares and mythics. Probably one booster box for a single mythic across anything or two rares across anything. They let people redeem MTGO collections (or used to), might as well let people do it for boosters. But that is going off subject.
Both Pokemon and Yugioh both have redemption systems from booster packs. (I beleave neopets did as well) Its not a new idea just a good one that should be utilzed, something as easy a copy of everythign in the pack (say a code on the tolken card) would do it.
i feel pauper is the new popular eternal format. with no chase mythics to sell sets i expect something else to come along but for now pauper looks good
Basically this.
Here is a format that is a fraction of the cost of playing Standard, but with diverse decks and interactive gameplay that is closer to Legacy than Modern is.
So yes, Standard cards are impacting Modern, greatly, as you demonstrate.
I'm sure Humans is doing the same.
This is a feature, not a bug.
Now are those cards in need of a reprint? 100%
I'm on board for more MM17, and far far fewer Iconic, Eternal, and A25. They could have a set like that EVERY YEAR and Modern still wouldn't tank.
I just don't get why they keep making their lives difficult. Doing a point redemption system eliminates feel bad scenarios by reducing volatility, makes it so they don't even need surveys because people specify what they want to redeem points for, and as data that is visible suggests, it's likely going to be a small, easily outsourced set of cards people are going to request. They likely wouldn't even need a masters set anymore.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I dont think there is interest on their end, or a perceived need, for 'design-a-box' type systems on their side. They like Masters sets, even if we dont like the last few.
I dont think there is interest on their end, or a perceived need, for 'design-a-box' type systems on their side. They like Masters sets, even if we dont like the last few.
The attrition and aging player base that they depend on buying these sets is the problem. Masters sets are an example of trying to make a shoe that fits all people's feet and ending up with clown shoes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Agreed. I still think a Modern Masters (2017 quality) set could come out every other year at worst, and the market could absorb it.
I think they could keep releasing these if they want, but the sets are too expensive and after this year with masters sets they just sent a clear message these things are a horrible deal for consumers. The reason the MSRP doesn't even feel justified anymore is because of peoples eroded confidence in wizards releasing something worth buying. The print disaster on one of the printers at the print facilities just made their Quality Assurance look like a joke, and the massive curling issue with HOU that persisted through ixalan and even masters 25 has made owning or buying their products seem like a horrible deal. Also the lack of a release valve for overly rampant speculation is making the secondary market hard to work with for players that want to buy singles, and this is coming from a person who has to deal with Force of Will, which has supply issues on the actual cards for that game due to people not listing them.
No one I know is even buying Dominaria pre-orders because none of us trust the company WoTC is paying peanuts to to actually print their cards and properly Q&A test the things before they get packed up.
(Also, the printer issue is what was behind the ink splotched cards and some boxes having way too many miscuts / duplicates. It seems that people were able to track down that it was all linked to the same batch, so hopefully there aren't more batches with those issues).
At this point I think the holo foil stamp on the rare and mythic cards was placed there so they could get away with off colored, poorly cut cards to cut costs. I don't even know if the cards bending is a paper issue or just another issue from not being careful with the pressure from the cutting heads.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They should just design a standard block in a couple years with the theme of an anti-gatewatch where the evil PWs rely on absurd powers like...affinity, dredge, storm, and the assembly of urzatron lol. Just like a year of OP modern cards at standard level printing. Then? Reserved list that stuff! I know, I know, can't/won't/shouldn't happen, but at least I added some flavor to it.
That's really the only way I would be okay with a new rotating format - if it was accompanied by an expansion of the reserved list on modern cards that didn't also exist in that new format (which would probably start at BFZ or later to avoid fetchlands). If you want to try to kill off a format, at least help out the players who are remaining interested by preserving their collection values. Don't try to de-platform while also making money on reprints, pick one or the other.
That's really the only way I would be okay with a new rotating format - if it was accompanied by an expansion of the reserved list on modern cards that didn't also exist in that new format (which would probably start at BFZ or later to avoid fetchlands).
Never, ever going to happen. Period. The Reserved list was a mistake, long term, one that WotC will not commit again. Also, Modern is already too expensive. If anything everything should be reprinted again and again until the costs come down to a more reasonable level.
I'm not sure it would be that simple. Since players can't buy directly from Wizards, even if they reprint cards again and again, what's preventing card sellers from not ordering those products in order to avoid prices from collapsing?
That's really the only way I would be okay with a new rotating format - if it was accompanied by an expansion of the reserved list on modern cards that didn't also exist in that new format (which would probably start at BFZ or later to avoid fetchlands).
Never, ever going to happen. Period. The Reserved list was a mistake, long term, one that WotC will not commit again. Also, Modern is already too expensive. If anything everything should be reprinted again and again until the costs come down to a more reasonable level.
I feel like you missed a significant part of this where I advocated for just printing it all into a year of standard. My point is, if WOTC were to take the axe to modern in favor of a newer eternal format (which will eventually encounter the exact same cost/design issue as the game changes over time), I want a reserved list protecting my collection's value OR for masters sets to be done in a less stupid way because prices are spiraling out of control in order to bolster the format's popularity.
I think WOTC wants to end modern as a big-league format. I think modern's popularity shows that all their moves to simplify the game and bring in new players alienate as many current players as they do bring in new ones, if not more so. I'd love to buy Tron for $500, but they are trying to appease drafters, constructed players, collectors and investors/speculators with one product line and it just doesn't effing work. If they are going to keep with these themed masters sets, which are more about drafting than reprinting, then just make a reserved list expansion. No half-assing it one way or the other.
Pauper is the next non-rotating format and it is looking to be extremely popular if the attendance at the last pauper tournament at one of my LGSs is any indication (45 attendees).
Wonder why pauper is so popular? Well maybe it is because it solves many of the problems people have with MtG lately. It is relatively cheap, answers and threats are powerful and blue is a strong colour again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:UB Taking Turns Modern:URW Madcap Experiment Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
Pauper is the next non-rotating format and it is looking to be extremely popular if the attendance at the last pauper tournament at one of my LGSs is any indication (45 attendees).
Wonder why pauper is so popular? Well maybe it is because it solves many of the problems people have with MtG lately. It is relatively cheap, answers and threats are powerful and blue is a strong colour again.
That and it's relatively easy to get commons from pre-BFZ block that work in the format, meaning it's easy to bypass the serious quality control issues the game is having. I didn't realize just how bad MtG had gotten until I opened packs from other TCGs. It's not just the fact MtG cards curl badly, they also have a huge number of issues with the colors being off and the cuts not being centered. A misprint and miscut should be rare, not so common that your mind just starts ignoring it because every other pack you are seeing at least three or four flaws.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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I'm not going to have to break out the list of Standard cards making an impact on Modern am I? You dont need to reprint Bob in a core set to 'sustain Modern' I mean the simple reality is that Modern IS self sustaining. No format brings in more viewers, nor has as much interest.
Arena is training wheels Magic, thats fine.
Spirits
I'm not aiming this at you, just I see this statement from a lot of people who forgot how the game was when modern was still young. Yes, they do have to print Bob eventually, because they can only create so many permutations of cards using the same design space. It's not about if cards are making an impact on modern from standard, it's how many there are and what cards also pair with it to make that impact. You can show me the entire list if you want from Kaladesh to now, it isn't going to change the reality of the statement.
You're in a format where just one card like Hollow One causes Burning Inquiry, Goblin Lore, BloodGhast, Blackcleave Cliffs, and Collective Brutality to all jump in demand rapidly, and that was one deck. Crap, missed Leyline of the Void. Then wizards only reprints two of those cards and reprints a low demand low supply land cycle.
If wizards did a better job reprinting cards there wouldn't be a single complaint about modern, but they provably can't. For goodness sakes three of those cards are commons / uncommons and this is just one example.
Here is how they "fix" this situation: have people get IR codes for points per booster pack and have a trade in system that lets people trade points for rares and mythics. Probably one booster box for a single mythic across anything or two rares across anything. They let people redeem MTGO collections (or used to), might as well let people do it for boosters. But that is going off subject.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm sure Humans is doing the same.
This is a feature, not a bug.
Now are those cards in need of a reprint? 100%
I'm on board for more MM17, and far far fewer Iconic, Eternal, and A25. They could have a set like that EVERY YEAR and Modern still wouldn't tank.
Spirits
Both Pokemon and Yugioh both have redemption systems from booster packs. (I beleave neopets did as well) Its not a new idea just a good one that should be utilzed, something as easy a copy of everythign in the pack (say a code on the tolken card) would do it.
Here is a format that is a fraction of the cost of playing Standard, but with diverse decks and interactive gameplay that is closer to Legacy than Modern is.
This is the eternal format of the future.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I just don't get why they keep making their lives difficult. Doing a point redemption system eliminates feel bad scenarios by reducing volatility, makes it so they don't even need surveys because people specify what they want to redeem points for, and as data that is visible suggests, it's likely going to be a small, easily outsourced set of cards people are going to request. They likely wouldn't even need a masters set anymore.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
The attrition and aging player base that they depend on buying these sets is the problem. Masters sets are an example of trying to make a shoe that fits all people's feet and ending up with clown shoes.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
I think they could keep releasing these if they want, but the sets are too expensive and after this year with masters sets they just sent a clear message these things are a horrible deal for consumers. The reason the MSRP doesn't even feel justified anymore is because of peoples eroded confidence in wizards releasing something worth buying. The print disaster on one of the printers at the print facilities just made their Quality Assurance look like a joke, and the massive curling issue with HOU that persisted through ixalan and even masters 25 has made owning or buying their products seem like a horrible deal. Also the lack of a release valve for overly rampant speculation is making the secondary market hard to work with for players that want to buy singles, and this is coming from a person who has to deal with Force of Will, which has supply issues on the actual cards for that game due to people not listing them.
No one I know is even buying Dominaria pre-orders because none of us trust the company WoTC is paying peanuts to to actually print their cards and properly Q&A test the things before they get packed up.
(Also, the printer issue is what was behind the ink splotched cards and some boxes having way too many miscuts / duplicates. It seems that people were able to track down that it was all linked to the same batch, so hopefully there aren't more batches with those issues).
At this point I think the holo foil stamp on the rare and mythic cards was placed there so they could get away with off colored, poorly cut cards to cut costs. I don't even know if the cards bending is a paper issue or just another issue from not being careful with the pressure from the cutting heads.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That's really the only way I would be okay with a new rotating format - if it was accompanied by an expansion of the reserved list on modern cards that didn't also exist in that new format (which would probably start at BFZ or later to avoid fetchlands). If you want to try to kill off a format, at least help out the players who are remaining interested by preserving their collection values. Don't try to de-platform while also making money on reprints, pick one or the other.
Never, ever going to happen. Period. The Reserved list was a mistake, long term, one that WotC will not commit again. Also, Modern is already too expensive. If anything everything should be reprinted again and again until the costs come down to a more reasonable level.
I feel like you missed a significant part of this where I advocated for just printing it all into a year of standard. My point is, if WOTC were to take the axe to modern in favor of a newer eternal format (which will eventually encounter the exact same cost/design issue as the game changes over time), I want a reserved list protecting my collection's value OR for masters sets to be done in a less stupid way because prices are spiraling out of control in order to bolster the format's popularity.
I think WOTC wants to end modern as a big-league format. I think modern's popularity shows that all their moves to simplify the game and bring in new players alienate as many current players as they do bring in new ones, if not more so. I'd love to buy Tron for $500, but they are trying to appease drafters, constructed players, collectors and investors/speculators with one product line and it just doesn't effing work. If they are going to keep with these themed masters sets, which are more about drafting than reprinting, then just make a reserved list expansion. No half-assing it one way or the other.
*looks at vintage and legacy prices*
Not super worried.
I mean it's not cheap because it's popular...
Spirits
Wonder why pauper is so popular? Well maybe it is because it solves many of the problems people have with MtG lately. It is relatively cheap, answers and threats are powerful and blue is a strong colour again.
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
That and it's relatively easy to get commons from pre-BFZ block that work in the format, meaning it's easy to bypass the serious quality control issues the game is having. I didn't realize just how bad MtG had gotten until I opened packs from other TCGs. It's not just the fact MtG cards curl badly, they also have a huge number of issues with the colors being off and the cuts not being centered. A misprint and miscut should be rare, not so common that your mind just starts ignoring it because every other pack you are seeing at least three or four flaws.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!