I am have played MTG for 20 years very casually. My favourite deck is a RU Ping Deck. (Sometimes called Laser decks or Tim decks). I decided to do some research in relation to the best way to build such a deck to find very few sources. The last decent thread on here was in 2010 and that was brief. (Yes I'm aware it's probably because the deck isn't that good!)
I thought rather than "build a deck" I would simply list cards that people might find useful. I will try to assess them on the basis of how good they are - but it is very much a work in progress, and I am eager for some discussion as to what everyone thinks. That way, depending on the format future googlers want to play, they can use this as a recourse and build their own.
Tier One - So awesome that you are crazy to make your deck without it Tier Two - Generally a very good option, you are unlikely to regret taking such a card Tier Three - Depending on your matchup it might suit you Tier Four - This card is unlikely to be one to use, unless a specific style or matchup dictates it Tier Five - People may suggest this, but I would avoid it
Tier One Razorfin Hunter
Two mana for a standard pinger. Perfect Curiosity
A single U for such a great card advantage. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind*
Is the Firemind tier 1? Well, you probably won't take 4 of the same legend. And he is expensive. However, combine him with curiosity (or ophidian eye) and you get an auto-win. A lot of people might avoid this cheese. In which case, he is probably tier 2. Nevertheless if you are building to win, you gotta put him in there. Lightning Bolt
It's a great card, and can help you immensely with board control. Brainstorm
Not exactly a pinging deck card, but is great. Combines well with the Firemind. Chandra, Torch of Defiance
The best Chandra, also rather expensive (in dollars, not mana). Fits what you do very well.
Tier Two Gelectrode
Superficially might look like a Teir One card, but the problem is that enchantments tend to do better in this deck than Instants or Sorcery. If you are only taking 4-8 cards that untap him, is he worth it? Cunning Sparkmage
You need pingers, and aside from Razorfin, the sparkmage is as good as they come. Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
If you disregard the Firemind's auto win loophole, Dracogenius is probably a nose in front of him. Probably. Charisma
Such an amazing combo, I just couldn't put this into tier 1 because of the cost. UUU makes it expensive and means you will get it late. Generally with this deck once you get to this stage you probably have control of the board. Still - it's awesome. Basilisks Collar
Very cheap for what it does, the only reason it is Tier 2 is because you might already be rocking 4 curiosities and 4 charismas. In which case, do you want another 4 enchant creatures, especially when it doesn't combo with charisma? Probably. But not definitely. Pemmin's Aura
It can uptap and it and it can keep your creatures alive. There are so many great enchantments to pick from, do you have room
for it? Bonfire of the Damned
One of the best burn spells in the game, and helps you control the board, which is what you need as a pinger. Chandra, Pyromaster
The next best Chandra after the torch, again fits your deck very well. About 1/10 of the money-cost of the Torch. Chandra, fire of kaladesh
Quite an odd card, given the shaman version of Chandra is better (at least for your deck) than the transformed planeswalker version. Not that hard to avoid making the swap, meaning the 1RR shaman is a very useful pinger. Note you can have Chandra as a legend and as a planeswalker at the same time. Just don't let her transform! Keranos, God of Storms
At first glance it seems amazing, but its expensive when you really need board control early. Perhaps a tier three, but he is very suited to your deck. Goblin Sharpshooter
I'm not an expert in MTG. This is probably evident by the fact my favourite deck is UR Ping. A lot of people who make this deck love this card. I do not. I would rank it lower, except to say that I am not an expert. I can't see why this would be taken over 'normal' pingers, that are the same cost, and often have fun abilities like untapping at instants or haste. But still untap normally. So that's me.
After I wrote that it was pointed out that he is particularly good with deathtouch - something like the basilisk collar. He would literally clear the board and ensure no creatures could ever drop. So I upgraded him from tier three to tier two. Nevertheless, without that combo he won't do much, so if you take him you might want to add additional deathtouch. Izzet Staticaster
Borderline tier two and three. Same price as a normal pinger. Does a few things well. Firstly it can deal with mass token creatures, which is a natural weakness of a ping deck. Secondly at 0/3 it can withstand a small amount of damage itself. Thirdly with haste and flash the Staticaster can surprise your opponent and trick them into using their turn on something that's about to get blown away anyhow. Downside is that you cannot use it to attack the player, but getting board control is more important.
Tier Three Goblin Fireslinger
I wonder if people might think this is too high, but a single R allows you to get things going nice and early. A good card to put curiosity and other player-damage enchantments on in the later game. Cheap and decent. But doesn't give you board control which you really want. Cinder Pyromancer
You will need pingers. About half your deck is going to uptap it. But then, you can't hit creatures. Gorgon Flail
Great effect, but curiosity and basilisks collar exist. Quietus Spike
Same as gorgon flail. Unless you are going to mass removal, there are better enchantments. Vulshook Sorcerer
Significantly more expensive than the Sparkmage for the same thing (1RR v 2R) but you do need pingers in your deck. Suq'Ata Firewalker
Arguably blue's best pinger, great in certain match ups and silly to take in most. Only this high as Blue has few really good pingers. Shock / Lava Spike / Shard Volley etc
Going for mass removal is a viable option, and red's spells are always useful, and generally uptape a few of your pingers Sigil of Sleep
So cheap. So good. I feel like in 2010 this card was tier 1. Now we have charismas and deathtouch enchantments, not to mention so many more creatures that have amazing "when this card comes into play" effects. Manamorphose
Simple effect but the card gives you a lot for what it does. But can you fit in there? Lava Dart
Probably a smidge in front of standard red burn due to its ability to increase your untap at crucial stages. Freed from the Real
A lot of fun, but you're probably taking Pemmin's Aura instead. Needle Drop
Not great until suddenly it's the best thing ever. High risk, high reward card. Electrolyze
2 damage for 1RU? Okay, but you can split it up (which is of limited use here) but you also get to draw. It also untaps some creatures. It's alright. Izzet Charm
Does a lot of things okay, doesn't do anything great. Grim Lavamancer
Very hard card to rate here.
It is considered to be a fantastic card.
Here is the problem - you wont be running much instants or sorcery.
If you run a lot of fetchlands it is pretty good
If not, it just is not going to give you control.
This card relies on your deck being constructed in a certain way. And even then, you only want 2 of them, as more than 1 out is not worth it.
Tier Four Kamahl, Pit Fighter
He looks great, but... has a toughness of 1, and has two legends better than him. Probably avoid, but will go okay if you need that extra large creature. Cerulean Wisps
Card advantage and an uptap, maybe more. It's okay. Thermo-Alchemist
If your deck is functioning, generally you won't need a defender. He is cheap and his use is limited. He gets a bit better in multiplayer. Fireslinger
Adding board control early, but with a big side effect. Unless you a desperate for early control I would look elsewhere. Ophidian Eye
If you want to try to hit the Firemind insta-win combo, it is pretty good. Otherwise it is super expensive compared to curiosity. And there are so many good enchantments. Neko-Te
It's expensive and why just tap when you can destroy? It does deal twice the damage to the player though, so could be useful in certain situations. Prodigal Sorcerer, and all 2U 1/1 Ping cards.
There are better cards out there now, so try to avoid the generic 2U Ping. Sometimes you want to add it so it isn't so red-creature heavy. Only reason I can see. Spikeshot Goblin
A very good card if used in a specific way. The deck would need to be constructed around it, if so, it could be very good. Heartless Hidetsugu
Before you explode with love remember each player counts you. Certainly very good against certain decks, like GW. I view this card as a "win faster card". If you are using it correctly, you probably have control of the game anyway. Therefore I have to place it in tier four.
Tier Five Mogg Fanatic
The new stack rules have greatly reduced their ability to control the board early. Avoid. Snakeform
There are better ways to kill creatures. Repurcussion
It is just too risky to take. You put it down and you can ping away at creatures and deal damage to the player, but opponents deck that deal damage are going to hurt you. There are so many better enchantments to take, I don't see why it would be taken. Prodigal Pyromancer
Zero reason to take this card. So many better pingers are out there. At least with the 2U blue you might do it to balance your red and blue. Here, take the sparkmage, or vulshook, or just about any pinger. Other Chandras
Until the Torch came along, Red Chandra was never that good. No reason not to take the Torch, or the Pyromaster if expense is an issue. Ablaze at 6 mana is too expensive, I would think a normal pinger is better than firebrand. PS. Everyone loves Jace but he doesn't fit this decktype at all.
Just for fun, to see what my current deck looks like
- Grim Lavamancer are Lightning Bolt are most definitely top tier and are clearly above and beyond anything else on the list.
- Thermo-Alchemist is missing. It was part of a UR deck in Standard that did similar to what you're describing.
- The post might fit better in the casual forum.
- Grim Lavamancer are Lightning Bolt are most definitely top tier and are clearly above and beyond anything else on the list.
- Thermo-Alchemist is missing. It was part of a UR deck in Standard that did similar to what you're describing.
- The post might fit better in the casual forum.
I will update lightning bolt. Regarding Grim Lavamancer, do you think you should put 4 of them in your deck? I agree it is a must include, but should it be Tier 2 if you are only likely to take 2?
Yes I did think about casual forum, but I figured that someone might want to make a competitive deck (standard/modern or whatever) in the future (I know right now this isn't competitive, but who knows what 5 years of mtg would bring, so it sat better here. I will not be offended if any mods decide to move it.
PS. Thermo-Alchemist was there, he is under Tier 4. EDIT: my mistake. You meant I spelt him wrong and therefore wasn't linking. Fixed.
It's not about how many copies you need to have a card be good, just how effective it is. Grim Lavamancer is the most effective in a spells deck that also run fetchlands. Consider the fact that he comes down on turn 1 and does two damage compared to just one makes all the difference.
"Pinging" decks aren't really competitive but the Standard deck I mentioned was very close, but only because it was backed up with the right cards. Unfortunately the guide would be useless to Standard players since non of the cards would really be legal, and the strategy is way too slow for eternal formats.
On a side note he's not a pinger, but Deathrite Shaman kinda works like one is arguably the best creature in Legacy.
The goblins were an oversight of mine, thanks for pointing that out. I have never shared the love for the sharpshooter, perhaps I'm missing something there.
I had never encountered the ogre before - wow. I play a lot of two headed giant, I guess that card is an instant draw!
The goblins were an oversight of mine, thanks for pointing that out. I have never shared the love for the sharpshooter, perhaps I'm missing something there.
I had never encountered the ogre before - wow. I play a lot of two headed giant, I guess that card is an instant draw!
he is a machine gun with Deathtouch,or a 1/1 token boardwipe like Deathbringer Thoctar
[quote from="discomute »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/789890-red-blue-ru-ping-deck-megathread?comment=7"]
he is a machine gun with Deathtouch,or a 1/1 token boardwipe like Deathbringer Thoctar
Wow, yes that is a good point. Put a basilisk collar on him and presto, opposition can't have creatures.
In other news, I realised a dirty trick with hidetsugu in two headed giant. Just use your other pingers to ensure the opposition has an even number of life, and you have an odd number of life. Then tap him for the instant win.
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I am have played MTG for 20 years very casually. My favourite deck is a RU Ping Deck. (Sometimes called Laser decks or Tim decks). I decided to do some research in relation to the best way to build such a deck to find very few sources. The last decent thread on here was in 2010 and that was brief. (Yes I'm aware it's probably because the deck isn't that good!)
I thought rather than "build a deck" I would simply list cards that people might find useful. I will try to assess them on the basis of how good they are - but it is very much a work in progress, and I am eager for some discussion as to what everyone thinks. That way, depending on the format future googlers want to play, they can use this as a recourse and build their own.
Tier One - So awesome that you are crazy to make your deck without it
Tier Two - Generally a very good option, you are unlikely to regret taking such a card
Tier Three - Depending on your matchup it might suit you
Tier Four - This card is unlikely to be one to use, unless a specific style or matchup dictates it
Tier Five - People may suggest this, but I would avoid it
Tier One
Razorfin Hunter
Two mana for a standard pinger. Perfect
Curiosity
A single U for such a great card advantage.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind*
Is the Firemind tier 1? Well, you probably won't take 4 of the same legend. And he is expensive. However, combine him with curiosity (or ophidian eye) and you get an auto-win. A lot of people might avoid this cheese. In which case, he is probably tier 2. Nevertheless if you are building to win, you gotta put him in there.
Lightning Bolt
It's a great card, and can help you immensely with board control.
Brainstorm
Not exactly a pinging deck card, but is great. Combines well with the Firemind.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
The best Chandra, also rather expensive (in dollars, not mana). Fits what you do very well.
Tier Two
Gelectrode
Superficially might look like a Teir One card, but the problem is that enchantments tend to do better in this deck than Instants or Sorcery. If you are only taking 4-8 cards that untap him, is he worth it?
Cunning Sparkmage
You need pingers, and aside from Razorfin, the sparkmage is as good as they come.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
If you disregard the Firemind's auto win loophole, Dracogenius is probably a nose in front of him. Probably.
Charisma
Such an amazing combo, I just couldn't put this into tier 1 because of the cost. UUU makes it expensive and means you will get it late. Generally with this deck once you get to this stage you probably have control of the board. Still - it's awesome.
Basilisks Collar
Very cheap for what it does, the only reason it is Tier 2 is because you might already be rocking 4 curiosities and 4 charismas. In which case, do you want another 4 enchant creatures, especially when it doesn't combo with charisma? Probably. But not definitely.
Pemmin's Aura
It can uptap and it and it can keep your creatures alive. There are so many great enchantments to pick from, do you have room
for it?
Bonfire of the Damned
One of the best burn spells in the game, and helps you control the board, which is what you need as a pinger.
Chandra, Pyromaster
The next best Chandra after the torch, again fits your deck very well. About 1/10 of the money-cost of the Torch.
Chandra, fire of kaladesh
Quite an odd card, given the shaman version of Chandra is better (at least for your deck) than the transformed planeswalker version. Not that hard to avoid making the swap, meaning the 1RR shaman is a very useful pinger. Note you can have Chandra as a legend and as a planeswalker at the same time. Just don't let her transform!
Keranos, God of Storms
At first glance it seems amazing, but its expensive when you really need board control early. Perhaps a tier three, but he is very suited to your deck.
Goblin Sharpshooter
I'm not an expert in MTG. This is probably evident by the fact my favourite deck is UR Ping. A lot of people who make this deck love this card. I do not. I would rank it lower, except to say that I am not an expert. I can't see why this would be taken over 'normal' pingers, that are the same cost, and often have fun abilities like untapping at instants or haste. But still untap normally. So that's me.
After I wrote that it was pointed out that he is particularly good with deathtouch - something like the basilisk collar. He would literally clear the board and ensure no creatures could ever drop. So I upgraded him from tier three to tier two. Nevertheless, without that combo he won't do much, so if you take him you might want to add additional deathtouch.
Izzet Staticaster
Borderline tier two and three. Same price as a normal pinger. Does a few things well. Firstly it can deal with mass token creatures, which is a natural weakness of a ping deck. Secondly at 0/3 it can withstand a small amount of damage itself. Thirdly with haste and flash the Staticaster can surprise your opponent and trick them into using their turn on something that's about to get blown away anyhow. Downside is that you cannot use it to attack the player, but getting board control is more important.
Tier Three
Goblin Fireslinger
I wonder if people might think this is too high, but a single R allows you to get things going nice and early. A good card to put curiosity and other player-damage enchantments on in the later game. Cheap and decent. But doesn't give you board control which you really want.
Cinder Pyromancer
You will need pingers. About half your deck is going to uptap it. But then, you can't hit creatures.
Gorgon Flail
Great effect, but curiosity and basilisks collar exist.
Quietus Spike
Same as gorgon flail. Unless you are going to mass removal, there are better enchantments.
Vulshook Sorcerer
Significantly more expensive than the Sparkmage for the same thing (1RR v 2R) but you do need pingers in your deck.
Suq'Ata Firewalker
Arguably blue's best pinger, great in certain match ups and silly to take in most. Only this high as Blue has few really good pingers.
Shock / Lava Spike / Shard Volley etc
Going for mass removal is a viable option, and red's spells are always useful, and generally uptape a few of your pingers
Sigil of Sleep
So cheap. So good. I feel like in 2010 this card was tier 1. Now we have charismas and deathtouch enchantments, not to mention so many more creatures that have amazing "when this card comes into play" effects.
Manamorphose
Simple effect but the card gives you a lot for what it does. But can you fit in there?
Lava Dart
Probably a smidge in front of standard red burn due to its ability to increase your untap at crucial stages.
Freed from the Real
A lot of fun, but you're probably taking Pemmin's Aura instead.
Needle Drop
Not great until suddenly it's the best thing ever. High risk, high reward card.
Electrolyze
2 damage for 1RU? Okay, but you can split it up (which is of limited use here) but you also get to draw. It also untaps some creatures. It's alright.
Izzet Charm
Does a lot of things okay, doesn't do anything great.
Grim Lavamancer
Very hard card to rate here.
It is considered to be a fantastic card.
Here is the problem - you wont be running much instants or sorcery.
If you run a lot of fetchlands it is pretty good
If not, it just is not going to give you control.
This card relies on your deck being constructed in a certain way. And even then, you only want 2 of them, as more than 1 out is not worth it.
Tier Four
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
He looks great, but... has a toughness of 1, and has two legends better than him. Probably avoid, but will go okay if you need that extra large creature.
Cerulean Wisps
Card advantage and an uptap, maybe more. It's okay.
Thermo-Alchemist
If your deck is functioning, generally you won't need a defender. He is cheap and his use is limited. He gets a bit better in multiplayer.
Fireslinger
Adding board control early, but with a big side effect. Unless you a desperate for early control I would look elsewhere.
Ophidian Eye
If you want to try to hit the Firemind insta-win combo, it is pretty good. Otherwise it is super expensive compared to curiosity. And there are so many good enchantments.
Neko-Te
It's expensive and why just tap when you can destroy? It does deal twice the damage to the player though, so could be useful in certain situations.
Prodigal Sorcerer, and all 2U 1/1 Ping cards.
There are better cards out there now, so try to avoid the generic 2U Ping. Sometimes you want to add it so it isn't so red-creature heavy. Only reason I can see.
Spikeshot Goblin
A very good card if used in a specific way. The deck would need to be constructed around it, if so, it could be very good.
Heartless Hidetsugu
Before you explode with love remember each player counts you. Certainly very good against certain decks, like GW. I view this card as a "win faster card". If you are using it correctly, you probably have control of the game anyway. Therefore I have to place it in tier four.
Tier Five
Mogg Fanatic
The new stack rules have greatly reduced their ability to control the board early. Avoid.
Snakeform
There are better ways to kill creatures.
Repurcussion
It is just too risky to take. You put it down and you can ping away at creatures and deal damage to the player, but opponents deck that deal damage are going to hurt you. There are so many better enchantments to take, I don't see why it would be taken.
Prodigal Pyromancer
Zero reason to take this card. So many better pingers are out there. At least with the 2U blue you might do it to balance your red and blue. Here, take the sparkmage, or vulshook, or just about any pinger.
Other Chandras
Until the Torch came along, Red Chandra was never that good. No reason not to take the Torch, or the Pyromaster if expense is an issue. Ablaze at 6 mana is too expensive, I would think a normal pinger is better than firebrand. PS. Everyone loves Jace but he doesn't fit this decktype at all.
Just for fun, to see what my current deck looks like
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Razorfin Hunter
4 Gelectrode
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Chandra, fire of kaladesh
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Kamahl, Pit Fighter
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
1 Chandra, the Torch of Defiance
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Bonfire of the Damned
Enchantments
4 Curisoity
Artifacts
4 Basilisk Collar
7 Island
8 Mountain
3 Izzet Boilerworks
4 Sulphur Falls
- Grim Lavamancer are Lightning Bolt are most definitely top tier and are clearly above and beyond anything else on the list.
- Thermo-Alchemist is missing. It was part of a UR deck in Standard that did similar to what you're describing.
- The post might fit better in the casual forum.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
I will update lightning bolt. Regarding Grim Lavamancer, do you think you should put 4 of them in your deck? I agree it is a must include, but should it be Tier 2 if you are only likely to take 2?
Yes I did think about casual forum, but I figured that someone might want to make a competitive deck (standard/modern or whatever) in the future (I know right now this isn't competitive, but who knows what 5 years of mtg would bring, so it sat better here. I will not be offended if any mods decide to move it.
PS. Thermo-Alchemist was there, he is under Tier 4. EDIT: my mistake. You meant I spelt him wrong and therefore wasn't linking. Fixed.
"Pinging" decks aren't really competitive but the Standard deck I mentioned was very close, but only because it was backed up with the right cards. Unfortunately the guide would be useless to Standard players since non of the cards would really be legal, and the strategy is way too slow for eternal formats.
On a side note he's not a pinger, but Deathrite Shaman kinda works like one is arguably the best creature in Legacy.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
I am still plugging away updating this. Boy I'd like to be able for afford a Torch of Defiance...
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Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
Thanks for stopping by!
The goblins were an oversight of mine, thanks for pointing that out. I have never shared the love for the sharpshooter, perhaps I'm missing something there.
I had never encountered the ogre before - wow. I play a lot of two headed giant, I guess that card is an instant draw!
he is a machine gun with Deathtouch,or a 1/1 token boardwipe like Deathbringer Thoctar
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
Wow, yes that is a good point. Put a basilisk collar on him and presto, opposition can't have creatures.
In other news, I realised a dirty trick with hidetsugu in two headed giant. Just use your other pingers to ensure the opposition has an even number of life, and you have an odd number of life. Then tap him for the instant win.