"Hey so, these foil lands are the only thing that's going to move this product, how can we jack up prices and make it sell like hotcakes?"
"Let's make them into the equivalent of masterpieces so they are super limited."
"Genius!"
Yeah... I tried writing a post about it yesterday when I learned the same thing. It's pretty irritating but what's even more irritating is Maro's response to that on Twitter like it's no big deal.
Uh... then why am I thinking these are the new Masterpieces? Get some of the sexiest art you can find, get people to drool over them, make sure you only print one-of on a sheet, then let people scrabble over them trying to complete full play sets. Because, you know, no limits on those basic lands, right? It's no wonder some stores are asking $100+ for these cards and opening crates of Unstable like crazy.
There is no way Maro or anybody else at WotC wouldn't think this would happen.
So you say they should've adjusted the entire way they print cards to allow for more foil basics? As Maro noted, the chance of cracking a foil basic in Unstable is equal to cracking a foil full-art basic in Amonkhet/Hour of Devastation...because there's only 1 of each.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
So you say they should've adjusted the entire way they print cards to allow for more foil basics? As Maro noted, the chance of cracking a foil basic in Unstable is equal to cracking a foil full-art basic in Amonkhet/Hour of Devastation...because there's only 1 of each.
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
So you say they should've adjusted the entire way they print cards to allow for more foil basics? As Maro noted, the chance of cracking a foil basic in Unstable is equal to cracking a foil full-art basic in Amonkhet/Hour of Devastation...because there's only 1 of each.
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
How is it scummy though? Same chance as always.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
So you say they should've adjusted the entire way they print cards to allow for more foil basics? As Maro noted, the chance of cracking a foil basic in Unstable is equal to cracking a foil full-art basic in Amonkhet/Hour of Devastation...because there's only 1 of each.
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
How is it scummy though? Same chance as always.
But it's not, right? I'll admit I don't know all the ratios and whatever for foil lands (so the numbers below are just examples to try to illustrate the point), but in Amonkhet, you would still have more of a chance of pulling a foil basic overall. So, if each box had 35 regular basics and 1 foil, and then 1 in 4 of those foils are Full Arts, then we have the 1 in 4 boxes of getting a foil full art which seems to match what we have for Unstable. However, within that, we still got 3 other foil basics of the other arts. Which means we got 4 foils and 140 non-foils total.
Yes, they only have 5 arts for the basics. But shouldn't we be getting the same ratio? That is, shouldn't we get 140 non-foils and 4 foils out of 4 boxes? I am not sure how we go to 1 foil in 3-4 boxes and think it is the same as what we had.
I am sure there is something I am missing here, but it seems that the overall number of foil lands went down. Is the suggestion that if we had 4 different arts that we would be getting more foil basics?
So you say they should've adjusted the entire way they print cards to allow for more foil basics? As Maro noted, the chance of cracking a foil basic in Unstable is equal to cracking a foil full-art basic in Amonkhet/Hour of Devastation...because there's only 1 of each.
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
How is it scummy though? Same chance as always.
But it's not, right? I'll admit I don't know all the ratios and whatever for foil lands (so the numbers below are just examples to try to illustrate the point), but in Amonkhet, you would still have more of a chance of pulling a foil basic overall. So, if each box had 35 regular basics and 1 foil, and then 1 in 4 of those foils are Full Arts, then we have the 1 in 4 boxes of getting a foil full art which seems to match what we have for Unstable. However, within that, we still got 3 other foil basics of the other arts. Which means we got 4 foils and 140 non-foils total.
Yes, they only have 5 arts for the basics. But shouldn't we be getting the same ratio? That is, shouldn't we get 140 non-foils and 4 foils out of 4 boxes? I am not sure how we go to 1 foil in 3-4 boxes and think it is the same as what we had.
I am sure there is something I am missing here, but it seems that the overall number of foil lands went down. Is the suggestion that if we had 4 different arts that we would be getting more foil basics?
By the same token err... land. The land art for Amonkhet is... how do I say it? Not as beautiful. It's flavorful, I won't argue that. It's just not nearly as good as Unstables. In addition, there is more of a frame on the cards. Not really an apples to oranges comparison, but it's not apples to apples either.
The Unstable Plains however, is eerily reminiscent of the meadows behind my childhood home. Swap the trees out for pines and put the haze of a mountain in the background and it would be like John Avon was right there last autumn. Unstable Mountain looks pretty damn close to some of the craigs my father used to take me to. Forest looks just like the forest around an old mine my dad used to take me to during Spring and Summer.
I'm sure the Unstable basic lands are really striking the same kinds of sentiments with other players as well. Something the Amonkhet lands just don't do. Not by a long shot.
I’m with Morphling here, you are getting a full art land and a foil token in each pack in a set made for drafting. I’m incredibly thankful for these things in a set with so many cards I know I will enjoy in games.
So you say they should've adjusted the entire way they print cards to allow for more foil basics? As Maro noted, the chance of cracking a foil basic in Unstable is equal to cracking a foil full-art basic in Amonkhet/Hour of Devastation...because there's only 1 of each.
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
How is it scummy though? Same chance as always.
It's not the same chance. Normally, there are 1 or 2 foil basic lands per box. This has been the case with all sets that I can remember since foils were first introduced in Urza's block. This was also the case with Unhinged, which also only had 1 art for each land.
WotC changed the math on us in Unstable, breaking a trend that they had in place for about 18 years, and didn't mention it until retailers called attention to it few days before release. That's why people think it's scummy.
So you say they should've adjusted the entire way they print cards to allow for more foil basics? As Maro noted, the chance of cracking a foil basic in Unstable is equal to cracking a foil full-art basic in Amonkhet/Hour of Devastation...because there's only 1 of each.
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
How is it scummy though? Same chance as always.
But it's not, right? I'll admit I don't know all the ratios and whatever for foil lands (so the numbers below are just examples to try to illustrate the point), but in Amonkhet, you would still have more of a chance of pulling a foil basic overall. So, if each box had 35 regular basics and 1 foil, and then 1 in 4 of those foils are Full Arts, then we have the 1 in 4 boxes of getting a foil full art which seems to match what we have for Unstable. However, within that, we still got 3 other foil basics of the other arts. Which means we got 4 foils and 140 non-foils total.
Yes, they only have 5 arts for the basics. But shouldn't we be getting the same ratio? That is, shouldn't we get 140 non-foils and 4 foils out of 4 boxes? I am not sure how we go to 1 foil in 3-4 boxes and think it is the same as what we had.
I am sure there is something I am missing here, but it seems that the overall number of foil lands went down. Is the suggestion that if we had 4 different arts that we would be getting more foil basics?
By the same token err... land. The land art for Amonkhet is... how do I say it? Not as beautiful. It's flavorful, I won't argue that. It's just not nearly as good as Unstables. In addition, there is more of a frame on the cards. Not really an apples to oranges comparison, but it's not apples to apples either.
The Unstable Plains however, is eerily reminiscent of the meadows behind my childhood home. Swap the trees out for pines and put the haze of a mountain in the background and it would be like John Avon was right there last autumn. Unstable Mountain looks pretty damn close to some of the craigs my father used to take me to. Forest looks just like the forest around an old mine my dad used to take me to during Spring and Summer.
I'm sure the Unstable basic lands are really striking the same kinds of sentiments with other players as well. Something the Amonkhet lands just don't do. Not by a long shot.
That is a very personal argument though. Your sentiment is something not everyone shares and personally, I think these lands are...well, they're far from bad and the art is pretty good, but that frame makes them look like the background of an iPhone to me. On the other hand, I quite like the story the Amonkhet lands tell though I prefer the Hour ones due to the sun actually being between the horns. So while that kind of argument holds true for you, it doesn't for everyone else.
As far as the ratio goes; I didn't know about Unhinged having a ratio akin to that of other sets. But this IS still in line with Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation or indeed any SPECIFIC basic land from any random set.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
How is it scummy though? Same chance as always.
But it's not, right? I'll admit I don't know all the ratios and whatever for foil lands (so the numbers below are just examples to try to illustrate the point), but in Amonkhet, you would still have more of a chance of pulling a foil basic overall. So, if each box had 35 regular basics and 1 foil, and then 1 in 4 of those foils are Full Arts, then we have the 1 in 4 boxes of getting a foil full art which seems to match what we have for Unstable. However, within that, we still got 3 other foil basics of the other arts. Which means we got 4 foils and 140 non-foils total.
Yes, they only have 5 arts for the basics. But shouldn't we be getting the same ratio? That is, shouldn't we get 140 non-foils and 4 foils out of 4 boxes? I am not sure how we go to 1 foil in 3-4 boxes and think it is the same as what we had.
I am sure there is something I am missing here, but it seems that the overall number of foil lands went down. Is the suggestion that if we had 4 different arts that we would be getting more foil basics?
By the same token err... land. The land art for Amonkhet is... how do I say it? Not as beautiful. It's flavorful, I won't argue that. It's just not nearly as good as Unstables. In addition, there is more of a frame on the cards. Not really an apples to oranges comparison, but it's not apples to apples either.
The Unstable Plains however, is eerily reminiscent of the meadows behind my childhood home. Swap the trees out for pines and put the haze of a mountain in the background and it would be like John Avon was right there last autumn. Unstable Mountain looks pretty damn close to some of the craigs my father used to take me to. Forest looks just like the forest around an old mine my dad used to take me to during Spring and Summer.
I'm sure the Unstable basic lands are really striking the same kinds of sentiments with other players as well. Something the Amonkhet lands just don't do. Not by a long shot.
That is a very personal argument though. Your sentiment is something not everyone shares and personally, I think these lands are...well, they're far from bad and the art is pretty good, but that frame makes them look like the background of an iPhone to me. On the other hand, I quite like the story the Amonkhet lands tell though I prefer the Hour ones due to the sun actually being between the horns. So while that kind of argument holds true for you, it doesn't for everyone else.
As far as the ratio goes; I didn't know about Unhinged having a ratio akin to that of other sets. But this IS still in line with Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation or indeed any SPECIFIC basic land from any random set.
Granted, I should have said many other players. My previous statement admitedly sounds like all players share that sentiment. However, I think my point still stands. I think these lands are striking an unusual chord with players.
You're right, the frames do look like cellphones but haven't you noticed that the new world frames also look like televisions? The framing is really noticeable with the Coldsnap Ice Age reprints.
The arguably shady part is that there is less product than of a "normal" expansion that is regularly drafted with.
But there is quite a demand of foil lands from this set, as they are the main driving force for anybody that actually wants to play with them outside of a draft.
Wouldnt have hurt anybody to make them somewhat appear more often, like 1 per box would make people happy enough (especially if it was a guaranteed thing, it would help make sure a box has a clear value and by that sell more boxes).
Making lands as a buy-a-box promo would be great too, that would also drasticly increase boxes sold to players at local game stores.
----
Thats all decisions they could have made but didnt, simply put, they didnt think ahead and didnt use the chances they would have had.
Making foil lands as rare as they are now is overall just hurting the set (lots will just buy 1 box , not many buy multiple boxes of a set and much less buy so many that they could even dream to get a set of foil lands).
The old un-sets were overprinted a lot, so we had a lot of boxes and much less demand even for the lands at the point in time the set was released.
So if at all, its scummy because WotC could have been much more giving and decided to not be.
Sounds like you'd have to take out a mortgage if you wanted to foil out your basic mana base.
It sort of feels that way already with the non-foil versions, actually. 3 USD per island just from the demand on them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So wizards is scummy for not altering the chance of foil lands appearing? Let this sink in, the complaint is "Wizards has not changed the rate at which a specific foil card appears in packs!!"
I know we all want the more expensive cards to show up more often and lots of people cry to the heavens that more expensive cards show up less, but to say they are scummy because they didn't increase the likely hood of specific cards showing up seems insane.
If they had made the individual copies of the multiple type cards rarer than their indicated rarity, that would definitely be scummy.
If you want to get a foil basic, great, that is your money. As for me, I would rather pickup the nonfoil versions. Shiny is nice but I'm not exactly enthusiastic to be spending between 40-80 bucks on a shiny basic.
So wizards is scummy for not altering the chance of foil lands appearing? Let this sink in, the complaint is "Wizards has not changed the rate at which a specific foil card appears in packs!!"
I know we all want the more expensive cards to show up more often and lots of people cry to the heavens that more expensive cards show up less, but to say they are scummy because they didn't increase the likely hood of specific cards showing up seems insane.
If they had made the individual copies of the multiple type cards rarer than their indicated rarity, that would definitely be scummy.
Unhinged foil basics appeared at the same rate despite each land only having a single artwork. Why then do the Unstable basics only appear at the same rate as a freaking masterpiece? Other sets you are guaranteed at least one foil basic per box, this set? Not even.
I hope you regularly donate and send aid to those in need in third world countries or have never in your life complained about any hardship because others have it so much worse than you all around the world you disgusting hypocrite.
Public Mod Note
(Cythare):
Warning for Trolling/Flaming
"Let's make them into the equivalent of masterpieces so they are super limited."
"Genius!"
Sod off with that Wizards.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Uh... then why am I thinking these are the new Masterpieces? Get some of the sexiest art you can find, get people to drool over them, make sure you only print one-of on a sheet, then let people scrabble over them trying to complete full play sets. Because, you know, no limits on those basic lands, right? It's no wonder some stores are asking $100+ for these cards and opening crates of Unstable like crazy.
There is no way Maro or anybody else at WotC wouldn't think this would happen.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
In this specific case? Yes. Or heck, do it like a normal set would even if there is only one of each basic.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
How is it scummy though? Same chance as always.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Yes, they only have 5 arts for the basics. But shouldn't we be getting the same ratio? That is, shouldn't we get 140 non-foils and 4 foils out of 4 boxes? I am not sure how we go to 1 foil in 3-4 boxes and think it is the same as what we had.
I am sure there is something I am missing here, but it seems that the overall number of foil lands went down. Is the suggestion that if we had 4 different arts that we would be getting more foil basics?
By the same token err... land. The land art for Amonkhet is... how do I say it? Not as beautiful. It's flavorful, I won't argue that. It's just not nearly as good as Unstables. In addition, there is more of a frame on the cards. Not really an apples to oranges comparison, but it's not apples to apples either.
The Unstable Plains however, is eerily reminiscent of the meadows behind my childhood home. Swap the trees out for pines and put the haze of a mountain in the background and it would be like John Avon was right there last autumn. Unstable Mountain looks pretty damn close to some of the craigs my father used to take me to. Forest looks just like the forest around an old mine my dad used to take me to during Spring and Summer.
I'm sure the Unstable basic lands are really striking the same kinds of sentiments with other players as well. Something the Amonkhet lands just don't do. Not by a long shot.
I understand you're upset and I'm sorry, but I have zero sympathy for you. You signed up for this b.s., 100%.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
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Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
You do realize that is only true because of the artificial scarcity caused by WotC's printing methodology?
It's not the same chance. Normally, there are 1 or 2 foil basic lands per box. This has been the case with all sets that I can remember since foils were first introduced in Urza's block. This was also the case with Unhinged, which also only had 1 art for each land.
WotC changed the math on us in Unstable, breaking a trend that they had in place for about 18 years, and didn't mention it until retailers called attention to it few days before release. That's why people think it's scummy.
That is a very personal argument though. Your sentiment is something not everyone shares and personally, I think these lands are...well, they're far from bad and the art is pretty good, but that frame makes them look like the background of an iPhone to me. On the other hand, I quite like the story the Amonkhet lands tell though I prefer the Hour ones due to the sun actually being between the horns. So while that kind of argument holds true for you, it doesn't for everyone else.
As far as the ratio goes; I didn't know about Unhinged having a ratio akin to that of other sets. But this IS still in line with Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation or indeed any SPECIFIC basic land from any random set.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Granted, I should have said many other players. My previous statement admitedly sounds like all players share that sentiment. However, I think my point still stands. I think these lands are striking an unusual chord with players.
You're right, the frames do look like cellphones but haven't you noticed that the new world frames also look like televisions? The framing is really noticeable with the Coldsnap Ice Age reprints.
But there is quite a demand of foil lands from this set, as they are the main driving force for anybody that actually wants to play with them outside of a draft.
Wouldnt have hurt anybody to make them somewhat appear more often, like 1 per box would make people happy enough (especially if it was a guaranteed thing, it would help make sure a box has a clear value and by that sell more boxes).
Making lands as a buy-a-box promo would be great too, that would also drasticly increase boxes sold to players at local game stores.
----
Thats all decisions they could have made but didnt, simply put, they didnt think ahead and didnt use the chances they would have had.
Making foil lands as rare as they are now is overall just hurting the set (lots will just buy 1 box , not many buy multiple boxes of a set and much less buy so many that they could even dream to get a set of foil lands).
The old un-sets were overprinted a lot, so we had a lot of boxes and much less demand even for the lands at the point in time the set was released.
So if at all, its scummy because WotC could have been much more giving and decided to not be.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
It sort of feels that way already with the non-foil versions, actually. 3 USD per island just from the demand on them.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I know we all want the more expensive cards to show up more often and lots of people cry to the heavens that more expensive cards show up less, but to say they are scummy because they didn't increase the likely hood of specific cards showing up seems insane.
If they had made the individual copies of the multiple type cards rarer than their indicated rarity, that would definitely be scummy.
Either way people need to relax and just play/have fun.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Unhinged foil basics appeared at the same rate despite each land only having a single artwork. Why then do the Unstable basics only appear at the same rate as a freaking masterpiece? Other sets you are guaranteed at least one foil basic per box, this set? Not even.
I hope you regularly donate and send aid to those in need in third world countries or have never in your life complained about any hardship because others have it so much worse than you all around the world you disgusting hypocrite.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver