John Stuart Mill argued that the chief threat to free speech in democracies was not the state, but the “social tyranny” of one’s fellow citizens. And yet today, the civil libertarians who style themselves as Mill’s inheritors have for the most part failed to refute, or even address, the arguments about free speech and equality that their opponents are making.
Wizards of the Coast, as an enterprise, is under no obligation to associate with any for whatever reason. Hell, this has always been the case. The "social mob" has always decided what is a correct form of acceptable speech in any society, of any group, of any ideaology, everywhere. Up to, and including, Jeremy's group which ridicules, derides, and embraces these same tactics to silence political dissidents and opponents.
The seeming paradox of supporting one's freedom of speech while arguing for consequences of speech is not, in truth, any form of paradox at all. It is a crutch argued by those who lack any form of nuanced understanding of the world, and often a deliberate oversimplification of how society works.
You are allowed to speak your beliefs. Wizards is not banning Jeremy for the content of his opinions, at all. Such a notion is childishly simplistic, and a misrepresentation and mischaracterization of the events. They are banning him for how he chooses to exercise said speech. You can voice your opinions, and you can do so in an animated manner. The second you decide to target an individual and engage in harassing behavior, however, you have crossed a line. He crossed that line many times by making Christine the focus of his troll mobs. He chooses to abuse the rights afforded to him, because he can. That is his choice. Nobody is going to stop him from doing that. The rest of world does not look kindly on this, and the rest of the world is free to disassociate themselves from him.
Further, forcing WotC, as a free entity, to associate with Jeremy is the entire antithesis of Freedom of Speech. They are allowed their opinions as well, and they are allowed to associate with whom they want, when they want. To even attempt to argue otherwise is to give up the entire game of supporting Free Speech in favor of the very authoritarianism you claim to be against.
The fact of the damn matter is he decided to weaponize his followers, who sent death threats and rape threats to Christine. He, on many instances before and after this event, called her effectively a prostitute and sexual predator, and afterwards doubled down by calling her a **** and thot. Insulting people, believe it or not, is against the CoC. Act like a damn adult, or you are gone. If he wanted to voice concern about sexualization and cosplay, he could have easily done so without insulting or harassing Christine. He decided a different route. It's that damn simple.
There are social consequences for saying and doing stupid, insulting things to people. His freedom of speech is not being infringed, either in actuality or in spirit. He is having his privileges taken away for his actions. You are not entitled to privileges, and WotC should not be forced to give him said privileges against their will. To argue otherwise is to at best be a child throwing a tantrum, and at worst be willfully obtuse and argue for the infringement of other's rights for your own privileges.
John Stuart Mill argued that the chief threat to free speech in democracies was not the state, but the “social tyranny” of one’s fellow citizens. And yet today, the civil libertarians who style themselves as Mill’s inheritors have for the most part failed to refute, or even address, the arguments about free speech and equality that their opponents are making.
Wizards of the Coast, as an enterprise, is under no obligation to associate with any for whatever reason. Hell, this has always been the case. The "social mob" has always decided what is a correct form of acceptable speech in any society, of any group, of any ideaology, everywhere. Up to, and including, Jeremy's group which ridicules, derides, and embraces these same tactics to silence political dissidents and opponents.
The seeming paradox of supporting one's freedom of speech while arguing for consequences of speech is not, in truth, any form of paradox at all. It is a crutch argued by those who lack any form of nuanced understanding of the world, and often a deliberate oversimplification of how society works.
You are allowed to speak your beliefs. Wizards is not banning Jeremy for the content of his opinions, at all. Such a notion is childishly simplistic, and a misrepresentation and mischaracterization of the events. They are banning him for how he chooses to exercise said speech. You can voice your opinions, and you can do so in an animated manner. The second you decide to target an individual and engage in harassing behavior, however, you have crossed a line. He crossed that line many times by making Christine the focus of his troll mobs. He chooses to abuse the rights afforded to him, because he can. That is his choice. Nobody is going to stop him from doing that. The rest of world does not look kindly on this, and the rest of the world is free to disassociate themselves from him.
Further, forcing WotC, as a free entity, to associate with Jeremy is the entire antithesis of Freedom of Speech. They are allowed their opinions as well, and they are allowed to associate with whom they want, when they want. To even attempt to argue otherwise is to give up the entire game of supporting Free Speech in favor of the very authoritarianism you claim to be against.
The fact of the damn matter is he decided to weaponize his followers, who sent death threats and rape threats to Christine. He, on many instances before and after this event, called her effectively a prostitute and sexual predator, and afterwards doubled down by calling her a **** and thot. Insulting people, believe it or not, is against the CoC. Act like a damn adult, or you are gone. If he wanted to voice concern about sexualization and cosplay, he could have easily done so without insulting or harassing Christine. He decided a different route. It's that damn simple.
There are social consequences for saying and doing stupid, insulting things to people. His freedom of speech is not being infringed, either in actuality or in spirit. He is having his privileges taken away for his actions. You are not entitled to privileges, and WotC should not be forced to give him said privileges against their will. To argue otherwise is to at best be a child throwing a tantrum, and at worst be willfully obtuse and argue for the infringement of other's rights for your own privileges.
There is no actual evidence of Jeremy directing people to harass anyone from what I have seen, people are using the old, well you know what he meant, which is insane.
Jeremy styles himself as some one who is willing to stand up against a percieved political agenda of wizards of the coast, its official forums, affliates like Channel Fireball and a lot of creators and high level players.
And I have not seen any evidence against his point, I can not think of one time in recent memory that Wizards of the Coast, SCG/Channel Fireball, or pros behaved in away that would be contrary to that point.
Its not even an accusation its the truth, Wizards of the Coast is political entity, its seeks to quash conservative voices, and it banned Jeremy for political reasons.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if that were true, that is WotC's perogative to push said agenda. Arguing they have no right to do so is the exact same sort of quasi-authoritarianism you yoursel argue is happening.
That said, he acted like an ass. He is entitled to his opinions. He is entitled to be critical. He is entitled to voice said opinions. These are not problems. What is a problem is how he chose to do it. He has a history of encourages his userbase to target people for harassment. He lauded them when he got banned from communities or blocked by individuals because of their brigading. He went on a rant insulting Christine specifically. That is the damn problem. You are allowed your opinion. You are not allowed to insult people for the lulz, nor are you allowed to direct your fanbase at them for harassment.
THere are two ways you can go about Wizard's liberal stances if you disagree with them: You can act like an adult, and talk it out like an adult, and voice your displeasure with it like an adult, and nothing will happen to you. Or you can be Jeremy, insult and deride people constantly, encourage your followers to harass people contstantly, and then things happen to you. The choice is yours, and don't come crying to me if you choose to go Jeremy's route. I don't give a damn if you get your toys taken away because you spit on the other children. Go screw off. You brought it on yourself, act like a damn adult for once in your life.
Rudy is often very critical of WotC's direction. He is animated about it. He is occasionally critical of the fan base of the game. He doesn't hide it. Nobody, at all, has an issue with Rudy. Why? Because he's not an ass about it.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There is no actual evidence of Jeremy directing people to harass anyone from what I have seen, people are using the old, well you know what he meant, which is insane.
"Hey guys, thanks for joing in with me, it was a blast! I even got banned, let's do it again some time! Also, this person over here is a sex predator who is literally destroying the game! You didn't forget about her right? Anywho, it was great that you guys helped me troll people!"
Sure, insane.
Jeremy styles himself as some one who is willing to stand up against a percieved political agenda of wizards of the coast, its official forums, affliates like Channel Fireball and a lot of creators and high level players.
He styles himself a persecuted ass because he was slighted two years ago, and rather than accept that people don't want anything to do with an ass and change his ways, he decided it was the rest of the world that is at fault. If you are an ********, and nobody wants to hang around you, it's because your an ******** and not because you are being persecuted.
And I have not seen any evidence against his point, I can not think of one time in recent memory that Wizards of the Coast, SCG/Channel Fireball, or pros behaved in away that would be contrary to that point.
Its not even an accusation its the truth, Wizards of the Coast is political entity, its seeks to quash conservative voices, and it banned Jeremy for political reasons.
Show me one unequivocal case of this happening where the person didn't engage in general assery. I want you to find me one person, somewhere, who was banned because they simply voiced their political beliefs.
Jeremy's problem is that he didn't simply voice his political beliefs. He attacked others, by name, for disagreeing him, insulted people on multiple occasions (And yes, calling people Cucks, ****s, thots, etc. is insulting them), and was a general ass. He is being banned because he is an unrepetent ass who shows no intention of not continuing to insult people. Wizards has a pretty damn clear policy on this matter.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if that were true, that is WotC's perogative to push said agenda. Arguing they have no right to do so is the exact same sort of quasi-authoritarianism you yoursel argue is happening.
That said, he acted like an ass. He is entitled to his opinions. He is entitled to be critical. He is entitled to voice said opinions. These are not problems. What is a problem is how he chose to do it. He has a history of encourages his userbase to target people for harassment. He lauded them when he got banned from communities or blocked by individuals because of their brigading. He went on a rant insulting Christine specifically. That is the damn problem. You are allowed your opinion. You are not allowed to insult people for the lulz, nor are you allowed to direct your fanbase at them for harassment.
THere are two ways you can go about Wizard's liberal stances if you disagree with them: You can act like an adult, and talk it out like an adult, and voice your displeasure with it like an adult, and nothing will happen to you. Or you can be Jeremy, insult and deride people constantly, encourage your followers to harass people contstantly, and then things happen to you. The choice is yours, and don't come crying to me if you choose to go Jeremy's route. I don't give a damn if you get your toys taken away because you spit on the other children. Go screw off. You brought it on yourself, act like a damn adult for once in your life.
Rudy is often very critical of WotC's direction. He is animated about it. He is occasionally critical of the fan base of the game. He doesn't hide it. Nobody, at all, has an issue with Rudy. Why? Because he's not an ass about it.
No one is saying that they cant be partisan and that they cant use that partisan stance as motivation to censure people.
Its that there is this refusal to admit thats whats going on.
And I dont know who "Rudy" is. I know when PVDRR wrote an article that was percieved to be negative towards women he had to write an apology letter and adorn himself is sack clothe and put ashes in his hair. And I know that similar thing happened with an article in SCG.
Thats the whole point in away of Jeremy, is that being nice and respectful will get treated the same way as not being nice and respectful. The idea that Jeremy just needed to be nicer doesn't seem to have much weight when people who were more mild faced similar pressures to conform with righthink.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
All I can say is that because of this I couldn't even get myself to watch gaming knights because they brought Mark Rosewater in. There's just some kind of wrongness when the command zone that is normally all about Commander is now doing an Unstable draft and is officially stating at the get go they are now supported by wizards of the coast. Right now getting WoTC sponsorship is likely a death knell.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There is no actual evidence of Jeremy directing people to harass anyone from what I have seen, people are using the old, well you know what he meant, which is insane.
"Hey guys, thanks for joing in with me, it was a blast! I even got banned, let's do it again some time! Also, this person over here is a sex predator who is literally destroying the game! You didn't forget about her right? Anywho, it was great that you guys helped me troll people!"
Sure, insane.
Jeremy styles himself as some one who is willing to stand up against a percieved political agenda of wizards of the coast, its official forums, affliates like Channel Fireball and a lot of creators and high level players.
He styles himself a persecuted ass because he was slighted two years ago, and rather than accept that people don't want anything to do with an ass and change his ways, he decided it was the rest of the world that is at fault. If you are an ********, and nobody wants to hang around you, it's because your an ******** and not because you are being persecuted.
And I have not seen any evidence against his point, I can not think of one time in recent memory that Wizards of the Coast, SCG/Channel Fireball, or pros behaved in away that would be contrary to that point.
Its not even an accusation its the truth, Wizards of the Coast is political entity, its seeks to quash conservative voices, and it banned Jeremy for political reasons.
Show me one unequivocal case of this happening where the person didn't engage in general assery. I want you to find me one person, somewhere, who was banned because they simply voiced their political beliefs.
Jeremy's problem is that he didn't simply voice his political beliefs. He attacked others, by name, for disagreeing him, insulted people on multiple occasions (And yes, calling people Cucks, ****s, thots, etc. is insulting them), and was a general ass. He is being banned because he is an unrepetent ass who shows no intention of not continuing to insult people. Wizards has a pretty damn clear policy on this matter.
Again were are all of the normal conservative voices if this isnt about politics or is Jeremy the only one?
Again were are all of the normal conservative voices if this isnt about politics or is Jeremy the only one?
Not making content people want to hear, largely.
Equally, Rudy from AlphaInvestments is pretty clearly more conservative than a lot of the millenial crowd. DesolatorMagic also pretty clearly is conservative, given his vocal support of Jeremy. In fact, there are a good number of people who came out vocally supporting Jeremy's political positions that have Youtube channels and the like. Nobody is calling for action against them, are they?
It's almost like the problem people have is with Jeremy's methods, and not his opinions, given that others have supported exactly what you say he supports, but nothing is happening to them.
Gosh, it's just a mystery, isn't it? Greatest mystery of our age, it is.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
What on earth makes you think WotC is worried about that at all? Everything they did was well within their legal rights. If he wants to litigate, he's going to waste a lot of time and money for nothing.
Again were are all of the normal conservative voices if this isnt about politics or is Jeremy the only one?
Not making content people want to hear, largely.
Equally, Rudy from AlphaInvestments is pretty clearly more conservative than a lot of the millenial crowd. DesolatorMagic also pretty clearly is conservative, given his vocal support of Jeremy. Nobody is calling for action against them, are they?
Desolator magic is the example you want to use?
"Not making content people want to hear, largely. " I think you really believe that, and thats fine but then dont act shocked when guys like Jeremy end up getting big followings.
And again thats fine but I just wish there was more honesty, Wizards of the coasts should just admit they arent interested in your opinion if its conservative and they dont want you to be part of the "community".
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
Sure is. He may be somewhat insane, and he blows things out of proportion, and people really don't like him, but nobody is calling for his banning because he came out vocally supporting him.
"Not making content people want to hear, largely. " I think you really believe that, and thats fine but then dont act shocked when guys like Jeremy end up getting big followings.
Jeremy does not have a large following. The reason why is because he's really the only game in town. If there were other conservative folks who were more reasonable, he would see his viewership drop massively. Equally, just because he is the only major conservative voice does not mean that the reason he is being punished is because he is conservative. That is equating correlation with causation, which is not at all how one should operate.
That said, there are other more-conservatively minded producers. Rudy, as an example, who is even friends with Jeremy apparently, no less. Nobody cares, at all, that he is more conservative. Nobody even cares that he is friends (or friendly colleagues, at least) with Jeremy. Nobody cares that he hasn't come out to denounce Jeremy. Because nobody cares about his damn politics.
Jeremy is pretty much the only vocally conservative content creator Magic has had. You are confusing this notion with the idea that Wizards is banning him because of this. Your population is one, and that population is a guy who openly acknowledges to being a troll who insults people.
The fact is, very few conservative voices have tried to make the content, and those who have have confused being conservative with being an ass.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
What other players have recieved life time bans and have had their MTGO accounts cancelled?
Sure is. He may be somewhat insane, and he blows things out of proportion, and people really don't like him, but nobody is calling for his banning because he came out vocally supporting him.
"Not making content people want to hear, largely. " I think you really believe that, and thats fine but then dont act shocked when guys like Jeremy end up getting big followings.
Jeremy does not have a large following. The reason why is because he's really the only game in town. If there were other conservative folks who were more reasonable, he would see his viewership drop massively. Equally, just because he is the only major conservative voice does not mean that the reason he is being punished is because he is conservative. That is equating correlation with causation, which is not at all how one should operate.
That said, there are other more-conservatively minded producers. Rudy, as an example, who is even friends with Jeremy apparently, no less. Nobody cares, at all, that he is more conservative. Nobody even cares that he is friends (or friendly colleagues, at least) with Jeremy. Nobody cares that he hasn't come out to denounce Jeremy. Because nobody cares about his damn politics.
Your admitting that he is only game town, then saying someone else is an example of lack of bias.
I highly doubt there are no conservative (internally) creators but the fact that none of them are open about it pretty damning.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
What other players have recieved life time bans and have had their MTGO accounts cancelled?
Quite a few, for varying reasons. The last major known one I can think of is Zach Jesse.
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
What other players have recieved life time bans and have had their MTGO accounts cancelled?
Quite a few, for varying reasons. The last major known one I can think of is Zach Jesse.
So Wizards of the Coast in a theoretical case would have to prove they acted non-discrimnatory in denying public goods to an individual.
So do you really think that Zach Jesse and Jeremy are the equivalent.
The politics of this is getting in the way of doing what's best for the actual game which Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro seems to care very little about. The company needs to realize that they're not there to sell a political agenda, they're there to sell a product called, "Magic: The Gathering". That's what the employees at Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro were hired to do yet it's gotten to a point now where they only listen to what goes on in their own echo chambers through social media outlets instead of the people who've actually been playing Magic for a long time. That's us!
With the way things are going right now Magic is poised to become the next Yu-Gi-Oh! If it hasn't already, Konami may have their fair share of problems as a gaming company but Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro managed to take it to a whole other level. Players are already getting fed up with the rising cost of competitive formats, the low card stock quality due to oversaturation of products being printed into oblivion, and with more distrust between the company and the consumer. Depending on how things go with MTG Arena that could be the final straw that ends up breaking the camel's back.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
So Wizards of the Coast in a theoretical case would have to prove they acted non-discrimnatory in denying public goods to an individual.
So do you really think that Zach Jesse and Jeremy are the equivalent.
Nice try. Wizards is not stopping Jeremy from buying product. They are denying him membership into a private organization. Membership which can be revoked, unilaterally, without explanation, according to the Terms of Service that Jeremy signed upon signing up for MTGO or for his DCI number.
Now, where he would possibly have a case is if he was discriminated against due to being a protected class. This includes sex, color, age, religion, physical or mental disability, Veteran status, or national origin. Note that "protected class" does not, contrary to popular belief, apply to one sex or another, but rather applies only to whether services are denied because of one's sex (And yes, cases have come up where a male was discriminated against due to being male, and won the case; or a white person was discriminated against for being white and won). So forth and so on down the list in the same manner.
I want you to point to me what criteria was violated for Jeremy. If they got rid of his DCI because he is male, or because he is white, or what have you, then you would have a point. Otherwise, this is meaningless and indicative of not even a sophomoric understanding of how discrimination law works and is applied. I'll be waiting. Not holding my breath, mind you, but waiting.
Equally, Wizards would have to prove nothing, at all. The onus is on Jeremy to prove that he was discriminated against.
So Wizards of the Coast in a theoretical case would have to prove they acted non-discrimnatory in denying public goods to an individual.
So do you really think that Zach Jesse and Jeremy are the equivalent.
Nice try. Wizards is not stopping Jeremy from buying product. They are denying him membership into a private organization. Membership which can be revoked, unilaterally, without explanation, according to the Terms of Service that Jeremy signed upon signing up for MTGO or for his DCI number.
Now, where he would possibly have a case is if he was discriminated against due to being a protected class. This includes sex, color, age, religion, physical or mental disability, Veteran status, or national origin. Note that "protected class" does not, contrary to popular belief, apply to one sex or another, but rather applies only to whether services are denied because of one's sex (And yes, cases have come up where a male was discriminated against due to being male, and won the case). So forth and so on down the list in the same manner.
I want you to point to me what criteria was violated for Jeremy. If they got rid of his DCI because he is male, or because he is white, or what have you, then you would have a point. Otherwise, this is meaningless and indicative of not even a sophomoric understanding of how discrimination law works and is applied. I'll be waiting. Not holding my breath, mind you, but waiting.
Equally, Wizards would have to prove nothing, at all. The onus is on Jeremy to prove that he was discriminated against.
A few cities or counties do ban such discrimination. D.C. bans discrimination based on “the state of belonging to or endorsing any political party.” Seattle bans such discrimination based on “any idea or belief, or coordinated body of ideas or beliefs, relating to the purpose, conduct, organization, function or basis of government and related institutions and activities, whether or not characteristic of any political party or group,”
It is well within the company rights to do this especially if it is in their own interests and the interests of the community.
Jeremy does not speak for even a significant fraction of conservative players, as I'm pretty sure they don't care and would just want to play the game.
He is like the very people that some other vocal conservatives fight against. An individual who stokes controversy for his own selfish gain.
Also, he isn't being banned for being overly conservative or belonging to a political affiliation. He is because he's being an ***.
Wizards of the Coast, as an enterprise, is under no obligation to associate with any for whatever reason. Hell, this has always been the case. The "social mob" has always decided what is a correct form of acceptable speech in any society, of any group, of any ideaology, everywhere. Up to, and including, Jeremy's group which ridicules, derides, and embraces these same tactics to silence political dissidents and opponents.
The seeming paradox of supporting one's freedom of speech while arguing for consequences of speech is not, in truth, any form of paradox at all. It is a crutch argued by those who lack any form of nuanced understanding of the world, and often a deliberate oversimplification of how society works.
You are allowed to speak your beliefs. Wizards is not banning Jeremy for the content of his opinions, at all. Such a notion is childishly simplistic, and a misrepresentation and mischaracterization of the events. They are banning him for how he chooses to exercise said speech. You can voice your opinions, and you can do so in an animated manner. The second you decide to target an individual and engage in harassing behavior, however, you have crossed a line. He crossed that line many times by making Christine the focus of his troll mobs. He chooses to abuse the rights afforded to him, because he can. That is his choice. Nobody is going to stop him from doing that. The rest of world does not look kindly on this, and the rest of the world is free to disassociate themselves from him.
Further, forcing WotC, as a free entity, to associate with Jeremy is the entire antithesis of Freedom of Speech. They are allowed their opinions as well, and they are allowed to associate with whom they want, when they want. To even attempt to argue otherwise is to give up the entire game of supporting Free Speech in favor of the very authoritarianism you claim to be against.
The fact of the damn matter is he decided to weaponize his followers, who sent death threats and rape threats to Christine. He, on many instances before and after this event, called her effectively a prostitute and sexual predator, and afterwards doubled down by calling her a **** and thot. Insulting people, believe it or not, is against the CoC. Act like a damn adult, or you are gone. If he wanted to voice concern about sexualization and cosplay, he could have easily done so without insulting or harassing Christine. He decided a different route. It's that damn simple.
There are social consequences for saying and doing stupid, insulting things to people. His freedom of speech is not being infringed, either in actuality or in spirit. He is having his privileges taken away for his actions. You are not entitled to privileges, and WotC should not be forced to give him said privileges against their will. To argue otherwise is to at best be a child throwing a tantrum, and at worst be willfully obtuse and argue for the infringement of other's rights for your own privileges.
There is no actual evidence of Jeremy directing people to harass anyone from what I have seen, people are using the old, well you know what he meant, which is insane.
Jeremy styles himself as some one who is willing to stand up against a percieved political agenda of wizards of the coast, its official forums, affliates like Channel Fireball and a lot of creators and high level players.
And I have not seen any evidence against his point, I can not think of one time in recent memory that Wizards of the Coast, SCG/Channel Fireball, or pros behaved in away that would be contrary to that point.
Its not even an accusation its the truth, Wizards of the Coast is political entity, its seeks to quash conservative voices, and it banned Jeremy for political reasons.
It wasn't political, and it's really not hard to understand. Jeremy was publicly objectively mean to a bunch of people, made WotC's brand/playerbase look bad, and caused a PR *****storm, so they banned him.
If that was true there would be a lot of lifetime bans.
As far as PR nightmare, how exactly, this never made it to any legitimate news source.
Jeremies accusation is that this is leftist wanting to push their agenda and silence critics, give me an example that proves him wrong.
Even if that were true, that is WotC's perogative to push said agenda. Arguing they have no right to do so is the exact same sort of quasi-authoritarianism you yoursel argue is happening.
That said, he acted like an ass. He is entitled to his opinions. He is entitled to be critical. He is entitled to voice said opinions. These are not problems. What is a problem is how he chose to do it. He has a history of encourages his userbase to target people for harassment. He lauded them when he got banned from communities or blocked by individuals because of their brigading. He went on a rant insulting Christine specifically. That is the damn problem. You are allowed your opinion. You are not allowed to insult people for the lulz, nor are you allowed to direct your fanbase at them for harassment.
THere are two ways you can go about Wizard's liberal stances if you disagree with them: You can act like an adult, and talk it out like an adult, and voice your displeasure with it like an adult, and nothing will happen to you. Or you can be Jeremy, insult and deride people constantly, encourage your followers to harass people contstantly, and then things happen to you. The choice is yours, and don't come crying to me if you choose to go Jeremy's route. I don't give a damn if you get your toys taken away because you spit on the other children. Go screw off. You brought it on yourself, act like a damn adult for once in your life.
Rudy is often very critical of WotC's direction. He is animated about it. He is occasionally critical of the fan base of the game. He doesn't hide it. Nobody, at all, has an issue with Rudy. Why? Because he's not an ass about it.
Even if it did, it's getting drowned out by other issues like the FCC voting to potentially get rid of Net Neutrality, the insane stuff going on with the US President such as the foreign relations investigation, tax policy, etc.
What exactly does a lifetime ban mean for someone? Does that mean they can't play at FNM?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"Hey guys, thanks for joing in with me, it was a blast! I even got banned, let's do it again some time! Also, this person over here is a sex predator who is literally destroying the game! You didn't forget about her right? Anywho, it was great that you guys helped me troll people!"
Sure, insane.
He styles himself a persecuted ass because he was slighted two years ago, and rather than accept that people don't want anything to do with an ass and change his ways, he decided it was the rest of the world that is at fault. If you are an ********, and nobody wants to hang around you, it's because your an ******** and not because you are being persecuted.
Show me one unequivocal case of this happening where the person didn't engage in general assery. I want you to find me one person, somewhere, who was banned because they simply voiced their political beliefs.
Jeremy's problem is that he didn't simply voice his political beliefs. He attacked others, by name, for disagreeing him, insulted people on multiple occasions (And yes, calling people Cucks, ****s, thots, etc. is insulting them), and was a general ass. He is being banned because he is an unrepetent ass who shows no intention of not continuing to insult people. Wizards has a pretty damn clear policy on this matter.
No one is saying that they cant be partisan and that they cant use that partisan stance as motivation to censure people.
Its that there is this refusal to admit thats whats going on.
And I dont know who "Rudy" is. I know when PVDRR wrote an article that was percieved to be negative towards women he had to write an apology letter and adorn himself is sack clothe and put ashes in his hair. And I know that similar thing happened with an article in SCG.
Thats the whole point in away of Jeremy, is that being nice and respectful will get treated the same way as not being nice and respectful. The idea that Jeremy just needed to be nicer doesn't seem to have much weight when people who were more mild faced similar pressures to conform with righthink.
He is banned from enterring any officially sanctioned WotC event, including Grand Prix's, Side Events, SCG Opens, FNM, Pre-Release, Game Day, etc. He is also losing any MTGO account he had, and is banned from that as well. It's about the most they can do.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Again were are all of the normal conservative voices if this isnt about politics or is Jeremy the only one?
Not making content people want to hear, largely.
Equally, Rudy from AlphaInvestments is pretty clearly more conservative than a lot of the millenial crowd. DesolatorMagic also pretty clearly is conservative, given his vocal support of Jeremy. In fact, there are a good number of people who came out vocally supporting Jeremy's political positions that have Youtube channels and the like. Nobody is calling for action against them, are they?
It's almost like the problem people have is with Jeremy's methods, and not his opinions, given that others have supported exactly what you say he supports, but nothing is happening to them.
Gosh, it's just a mystery, isn't it? Greatest mystery of our age, it is.
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately they can't really stop him from buying packs or doing pack openings. Also, they better be ready for one hell of vengeance streak via legal litigation because there's no way Jeremy is going to take this sitting down. Do I think that what Wizards did sets a bad precedence with this? Potentially, but at this point I'm not sure a better solution could be reached.
Also he is complaining now about how he lost a lot of money in digital cards from his MTGO account getting lost with no repeal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Desolator magic is the example you want to use?
"Not making content people want to hear, largely. " I think you really believe that, and thats fine but then dont act shocked when guys like Jeremy end up getting big followings.
And again thats fine but I just wish there was more honesty, Wizards of the coasts should just admit they arent interested in your opinion if its conservative and they dont want you to be part of the "community".
Jeremy has no legal recourse, at all. If he had an MTGO account, that's gone as he signed the Terms of Service which clearly state that he agrees to allow Wizards to do just that, unilaterally and without reason. The same goes for his DCI membership. If he thinks he can litigate against Christine, or anyone, for defamation, he's sorely wrong. There is a reason why lawyers carefully craft statements, and heavily advise against making a comment about ongoing situations, and that is because if you say something stupid, as Jeremy has, you have nuked your chances of being taken seriously in court.
He's gone, and no lawyers with even a basic understanding of civil torts would touch him as a client with a ten foot pole.
Sure is. He may be somewhat insane, and he blows things out of proportion, and people really don't like him, but nobody is calling for his banning because he came out vocally supporting him.
Jeremy does not have a large following. The reason why is because he's really the only game in town. If there were other conservative folks who were more reasonable, he would see his viewership drop massively. Equally, just because he is the only major conservative voice does not mean that the reason he is being punished is because he is conservative. That is equating correlation with causation, which is not at all how one should operate.
That said, there are other more-conservatively minded producers. Rudy, as an example, who is even friends with Jeremy apparently, no less. Nobody cares, at all, that he is more conservative. Nobody even cares that he is friends (or friendly colleagues, at least) with Jeremy. Nobody cares that he hasn't come out to denounce Jeremy. Because nobody cares about his damn politics.
Jeremy is pretty much the only vocally conservative content creator Magic has had. You are confusing this notion with the idea that Wizards is banning him because of this. Your population is one, and that population is a guy who openly acknowledges to being a troll who insults people.
The fact is, very few conservative voices have tried to make the content, and those who have have confused being conservative with being an ass.
What other players have recieved life time bans and have had their MTGO accounts cancelled?
Your admitting that he is only game town, then saying someone else is an example of lack of bias.
I highly doubt there are no conservative (internally) creators but the fact that none of them are open about it pretty damning.
Quite a few, for varying reasons. The last major known one I can think of is Zach Jesse.
So Wizards of the Coast in a theoretical case would have to prove they acted non-discrimnatory in denying public goods to an individual.
So do you really think that Zach Jesse and Jeremy are the equivalent.
With the way things are going right now Magic is poised to become the next Yu-Gi-Oh! If it hasn't already, Konami may have their fair share of problems as a gaming company but Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro managed to take it to a whole other level. Players are already getting fed up with the rising cost of competitive formats, the low card stock quality due to oversaturation of products being printed into oblivion, and with more distrust between the company and the consumer. Depending on how things go with MTG Arena that could be the final straw that ends up breaking the camel's back.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Nice try. Wizards is not stopping Jeremy from buying product. They are denying him membership into a private organization. Membership which can be revoked, unilaterally, without explanation, according to the Terms of Service that Jeremy signed upon signing up for MTGO or for his DCI number.
Now, where he would possibly have a case is if he was discriminated against due to being a protected class. This includes sex, color, age, religion, physical or mental disability, Veteran status, or national origin. Note that "protected class" does not, contrary to popular belief, apply to one sex or another, but rather applies only to whether services are denied because of one's sex (And yes, cases have come up where a male was discriminated against due to being male, and won the case; or a white person was discriminated against for being white and won). So forth and so on down the list in the same manner.
I want you to point to me what criteria was violated for Jeremy. If they got rid of his DCI because he is male, or because he is white, or what have you, then you would have a point. Otherwise, this is meaningless and indicative of not even a sophomoric understanding of how discrimination law works and is applied. I'll be waiting. Not holding my breath, mind you, but waiting.
Equally, Wizards would have to prove nothing, at all. The onus is on Jeremy to prove that he was discriminated against.
A few cities or counties do ban such discrimination. D.C. bans discrimination based on “the state of belonging to or endorsing any political party.” Seattle bans such discrimination based on “any idea or belief, or coordinated body of ideas or beliefs, relating to the purpose, conduct, organization, function or basis of government and related institutions and activities, whether or not characteristic of any political party or group,”
Jeremy does not speak for even a significant fraction of conservative players, as I'm pretty sure they don't care and would just want to play the game.
He is like the very people that some other vocal conservatives fight against. An individual who stokes controversy for his own selfish gain.
Also, he isn't being banned for being overly conservative or belonging to a political affiliation. He is because he's being an ***.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
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