For anyone interested Jeremy's going to be on a livecast tomorrow called tommyc'ssftp on youtube 3pm est. The show takes callers so I'm hoping it will be interesting.
I think he's his own worst enemy personally. I'm pretty good at seeing both sides of the story no matter if I agree with them or not, but Jeremy approaches things to try to get a reaction. It's less about his message and more about his approach.
He is actively trying to make himself a martyr to spring-board himself into being a well-known personality the likes of Sargon or whatnot. There is a reason he was practically begging people to interview him last week about this.
Like its not cool what has happened to the girl or others victims, Jeremy included and I don't mean to sound like I'm making light of the situation. I kind of tuned out to the mess and assumed it would have blown over by now.
However I pinched myself a couple times just to make sure I'm not just asleep or something. As I am right now wondering myself like "This really can't be happening, right?". As when I think about the guy has sworn enemies, that he was betrayed by his closest ally, that he is trying to gain status and fame through questionable methods.
When reading the various posts, this quoted one included on the reasoning, am I the only one here who was thinking of that Spiderman joke:
"This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot."
Or with other things like Br'er Rabbit and the whole:
"please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat brier-patch,"
Or with Obi-Wan Kenobi where he was all like:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
If you're a content creator, you should acknowledge that your content could [potentially] be viewed by thousands, if not millions, of people of a daily basis. So there's a clear need to for you to appease to the masses and not offending anyone. While that's obviously impossible to do consistently, given that somewhere out there will always be extra-sensitive viewers who become offended at almost everything, it still necessitates some effort in doing so.
Jeremy's whole statement about cosplaying "not having any impact on players" and is "just lingerie" is true, albeit in a rather unnecessarily blunt manner. Cosplayers don't have any direct impact on how we play the game and do indeed add some additional flare to the game, even if in rather sexually suggestive manners at times. If he just wanted to get bring up that detail, it would've been fine, but instead he had take it a step further and portray Sprankle and other cosplayers as "whores crying for Patreon money." What exactly does he intend to gain from doing that? He puts offensive statements in his content, which puts his own channel at risk of being flagged and taken down all to raise an opinion? It just doesn't seem sensible, but it doesn't matter; if there's a toxic person in the community, that person needs to go regardless of the motive.
More concerning for me is that after scrolling through a couple of his videos, I notice most of them have far more likes than dislikes. Others claiming Jeremy to be downright toxic to MTG community believe that people like him are just a loud minority, but what if that's not the case? What if they're the majority and the people who actively try to be friendly and accommodating to others are the minority? The times I've gone to FNM following this whole incident, I can't help but look at everyone in the store and the people I'm facing and thinking to myself: "What if this person is really a misogynistic jerk?" Moreover, what does that say for me, even being there hanging out these potentially toxic people? At this point, I'm not quite sure what to believe anymore.
More concerning for me is that after scrolling through a couple of his videos, I notice most of them have far more likes than dislikes. Others claiming Jeremy to be downright toxic to MTG community believe that people like him are just a loud minority, but what if that's not the case? What if they're the majority and the people who actively try to be friendly and accommodating to others are the minority? The times I've gone to FNM following this whole incident, I can't help but look at everyone in the store and the people I'm facing and thinking to myself: "What if this person is really a misogynistic jerk?" Moreover, what does that say for me, even being there hanging out these potentially toxic people? At this point, I'm not quite sure what to believe anymore.
His subscriber count hasn't really increased that much though, a couple thousand at most. I want you to go with a little experiment with me, shows a rather fascinating trend with his videos on his UnsleevedMedia account with the first being the catalyst to his latest upload.
This is What True Harassment Looks like: 4K Likes Vs 4k Dislikes, 70,286 Views
The Moral High Ground is Hollow (MTG Witch Hunt): 2K Likes Vs 1k Dislikes,30,628 Views
Return To Ravnica Fat Pack & Current WOTC Investigation: 1k Likes Vs 582-ish Dislikes, 20,630 Views
Addressing Both Supporters & Critics Live Q&A: 899 Likes Vs 273 Dislikes, 14,095 Views
Get Your Damaged Magic Cards Replaced For Free (Please Do It): 686 Likes Vs 118 Dislikes, 13,063 Views
Please Do Not Quit Playing Magic: 1k Likes Vs 285 Dislikes, 19,159 Views
Sunlight Is The Best Disinfectant: 1K Likes Vs 250 Dislikes, 19,087 Views
Ban Update & Some Fun: 1k Likes Vs 552 Dislikes, Views 28,658
Final Fantasy Opus IV Booster Box Opening! Nuts Pulls (As Usual): 249 Likes Vs 22 Dislikes, 3,199 Views.
Now for part 2 of this little experiment, we need the same number of videos leading up to the Catalyst.
Rare Old MTG Collectors Box Full Of Rare MTG Packs!: 681 Likes Vs 108 Dislikes, 18,751 Views
WTF Is A MTG Beatdown Box? Let's Open It!: 515 Likes vs 108 Dislikes, 11,515 Views
Official Iconic Masters Booster Box Opening!: 508 Likes vs 138 Dislikes, 18,466 Views
This Product Proves WOTC No Longer Cares About Local Game Stores: 2k Likes Vs 717 Dislikes, 51,464 Views
WTF Is A Vanguard Box? Old Foreign Magic Packs & More!: 291 Likes Vs 158 Dislikes, 8,284 Views
Dear Wedge: 1K Likes vs 917 Dislikes, 29,015 Views
WTF? MTG Lootboxes Promoted By WOTC? UGH: 540 Likes Vs 387 Dislikes, 23,827 Views
Unboxing & Inspecting From The Vault Transform!: 360 Likes Vs 355 Dislikes, 8,774 Views
A Closer Look At Explorers Of Ixalan! MTG Boardgame: 338 Likes Vs 595 Dislikes, 8,326 views
What I noticed was:
1) His normal videos, based on sample, that show off a product don't reach 20k Views.
2) His more controversial videos are the ones that reach 19k or more Views regularly.
3) His dislikes have only recently spiked up since the "Lootboxes" video.
4) People routinely started leaving rude comments about him since the "Vanguard Box" video, post-catalyst.
5) The Likes/Dislikes on the "Final Fantasy" video are closer to "Collector's Box" to "Vanguard Box" videos.
6) From the "True Harassment" video to the "Get Your Damaged Cards" videos his views were dramatically dropping back down.
7) His views floated around 19-28k for the three videos of "Do Not Quit", "Sunlight" and "Ban Update".
8) While this is a bit of cheating with an unseen hand, the "Final Fantasy" video posted today had similar praise in the comment section to TCC's "Tolarian Tutor: How To Be A Better Control Player in Magic: The Gathering" from 6 days ago in that it was consider "drama free".
So if I have to be honest, its clear the guy is fishing for views when he steps out of the Product Review videos and does a more controversial episode on purpose. What the guy needs to do is stick to more positive and informative content, as while it won't net him as many likes or views or subs in the short-term it will keep the drama down on his channel.
If prodded I will give more exact examples of TCC's videos in a similar process as comparison but basically: TCC's videos get more views in general, tend to have a better Like/Dislike ratio and the drama with Jeremy stayed pretty much in the comment section of "In Response: What We Owe To Each Other".
I don't normally post here, as I don't believe the mods are even-handed. You only have to look at how tyrannically they've acted against the slightest disagreement, while also allowing a poster to call Magic players "Fat losers" (I thought insults were forbidden, mods?)
Anyway, on topic, there are a few things to remember about Jeremy:
- He has Lifelink: Every time you clash with him, he gains life. Conflict strengthens him.
- He has Double-strike: Whenever you hit him, he hits back twice as hard. This is because he is twice as malicious, has twice as much free time, and his career depends on hitting hard.
- He has Indestructible: Regular damage is ineffective against him. He is impervious to shame. To defeat him, he must be exiled, from the conversation and from the game.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"For the sake of Hasbro's half-year financial report, we will keep watch."
-- The Gatewatch
I don't normally post here, as I don't believe the mods are even-handed. You only have to look at how tyrannically they've acted against the slightest disagreement, while also allowing a poster to call Magic players "Fat losers" (I thought insults were forbidden, mods?)
Anyway, on topic, there are a few things to remember about Jeremy:
- He has Lifelink: Every time you clash with him, he gains life. Conflict strengthens him.
- He has Double-strike: Whenever you hit him, he hits back twice as hard. This is because he is twice as malicious, has twice as much free time, and his career depends on hitting hard.
- He has Indestructible: Regular damage is ineffective against him. He is impervious to shame. To defeat him, he must be exiled, from the conversation and from the game.
Now does YouTube reward channels solely based on number of views regardless of likes/dislikes?
You have to be of a certain size to monetize your channel, and more views means more ad revenue. Likes and dislikes don't fact in, I don't think.
OK now that's interesting so then maybe YouTube may also be at fault here for hosting environment where toxic content could easily thrive?
Youtube is simply a platform for videos and comments alike. One could point to other places like reddit and say how such places must be toxic but that is misnomer as well. For you see there are quite a few subreddits that are actually pleasant places while their are other subreddits which can be every much of a cesspit as you can imagine.
Views and Dislikes/Likes mean less than Time Watched now. However that doesn't mean the two factors (L/D and V) can't be used to analyze trends within a sub group. The more natural state of Jeremy's videos are ones where he shows off a product, 3-18k views, far more likes than dislikes on the video. When he does a more controversial video its like he kicked a beehive which is why there is a spike in all three of these areas.
Aside from a single rude comment towards Jeremy in his "Final Fantasy" video, the comment section is very tame compared to past comment sections where he kicked the beehive. It also only has 89 comments as of writing compared to its next door neighbor "Ban Update" which has 333 comments. Which shows the discussion has effectively died down.
So Youtube is just a platform, but Travis Woo can be targeted for opening a private group "Magic for Bad?" Nope. It's either everything or nothing. Either Jeremy is as much a bully as EFRo for his "pro equity" and "dreamcrusher" statements from a year or so ago, or it's all okay. None of this picking and choosing, because that's when it becomes apparent that it is less about the content of the speech and more about your personal feelings of the individual involved.
So Youtube is just a platform, but Travis Woo can be targeted for opening a private group "Magic for Bad?" Nope. It's either everything or nothing. Either Jeremy is as much a bully as EFRo for his "pro equity" and "dreamcrusher" statements from a year or so ago, or it's all okay. None of this picking and choosing, because that's when it becomes apparent that it is less about the content of the speech and more about your personal feelings of the individual involved.
This is what I find deplorable. Life is not so cut and dry as you make it sound. Life is gray morality. Such naivete as demonstrated in this quote that the incorrect belief that life must be black/white morality actually causes more problems. Jeremy is not a bond villain but he isn't a saint either. Moments should be viewed with the knowledge of the present and past and not just the present.
Knee-jerk reactions are one of the most annoying things to become prominent on the internet. I could write an article with a title like:
10 awful things that Jeremy said on twitter
and its sure to get clicks because 1) Its topical, 2) The controversial language of the title. Even if the article is actually benign, there is going to be that knee-jerk reaction from people whose curiosity gets the better of them.
I'm not sure how its even questioned what he is doing. He has found a market which few try to appeal to. The types who identify as 'alt-right', the types who identify as 'MRA's'.
This is a sizable population. It is irrelevant if the community at large calls out his behavior as vile, because there are enough people to who he will find support for his hateful messages.
The only answer, is for Wizards to official cut him out in any way (promotion, mentions, etc) ban him from events if his behavior is against their rules and guidelines, and for us, to not feed into the attention which he desires.
More concerning for me is that after scrolling through a couple of his videos, I notice most of them have far more likes than dislikes. Others claiming Jeremy to be downright toxic to MTG community believe that people like him are just a loud minority, but what if that's not the case? What if they're the majority and the people who actively try to be friendly and accommodating to others are the minority? The times I've gone to FNM following this whole incident, I can't help but look at everyone in the store and the people I'm facing and thinking to myself: "What if this person is really a misogynistic jerk?" Moreover, what does that say for me, even being there hanging out these potentially toxic people? At this point, I'm not quite sure what to believe anymore.
His subscriber count hasn't really increased that much though, a couple thousand at most. I want you to go with a little experiment with me, shows a rather fascinating trend with his videos on his UnsleevedMedia account with the first being the catalyst to his latest upload.
This is What True Harassment Looks like: 4K Likes Vs 4k Dislikes, 70,286 Views
The Moral High Ground is Hollow (MTG Witch Hunt): 2K Likes Vs 1k Dislikes,30,628 Views
Return To Ravnica Fat Pack & Current WOTC Investigation: 1k Likes Vs 582-ish Dislikes, 20,630 Views
Addressing Both Supporters & Critics Live Q&A: 899 Likes Vs 273 Dislikes, 14,095 Views
Get Your Damaged Magic Cards Replaced For Free (Please Do It): 686 Likes Vs 118 Dislikes, 13,063 Views
Please Do Not Quit Playing Magic: 1k Likes Vs 285 Dislikes, 19,159 Views
Sunlight Is The Best Disinfectant: 1K Likes Vs 250 Dislikes, 19,087 Views
Ban Update & Some Fun: 1k Likes Vs 552 Dislikes, Views 28,658
Final Fantasy Opus IV Booster Box Opening! Nuts Pulls (As Usual): 249 Likes Vs 22 Dislikes, 3,199 Views.
Now for part 2 of this little experiment, we need the same number of videos leading up to the Catalyst.
Rare Old MTG Collectors Box Full Of Rare MTG Packs!: 681 Likes Vs 108 Dislikes, 18,751 Views
WTF Is A MTG Beatdown Box? Let's Open It!: 515 Likes vs 108 Dislikes, 11,515 Views
Official Iconic Masters Booster Box Opening!: 508 Likes vs 138 Dislikes, 18,466 Views
This Product Proves WOTC No Longer Cares About Local Game Stores: 2k Likes Vs 717 Dislikes, 51,464 Views
WTF Is A Vanguard Box? Old Foreign Magic Packs & More!: 291 Likes Vs 158 Dislikes, 8,284 Views
Dear Wedge: 1K Likes vs 917 Dislikes, 29,015 Views
WTF? MTG Lootboxes Promoted By WOTC? UGH: 540 Likes Vs 387 Dislikes, 23,827 Views
Unboxing & Inspecting From The Vault Transform!: 360 Likes Vs 355 Dislikes, 8,774 Views
A Closer Look At Explorers Of Ixalan! MTG Boardgame: 338 Likes Vs 595 Dislikes, 8,326 views
What I noticed was:
1) His normal videos, based on sample, that show off a product don't reach 20k Views.
2) His more controversial videos are the ones that reach 19k or more Views regularly.
3) His dislikes have only recently spiked up since the "Lootboxes" video.
4) People routinely started leaving rude comments about him since the "Vanguard Box" video, post-catalyst.
5) The Likes/Dislikes on the "Final Fantasy" video are closer to "Collector's Box" to "Vanguard Box" videos.
6) From the "True Harassment" video to the "Get Your Damaged Cards" videos his views were dramatically dropping back down.
7) His views floated around 19-28k for the three videos of "Do Not Quit", "Sunlight" and "Ban Update".
8) While this is a bit of cheating with an unseen hand, the "Final Fantasy" video posted today had similar praise in the comment section to TCC's "Tolarian Tutor: How To Be A Better Control Player in Magic: The Gathering" from 6 days ago in that it was consider "drama free".
So if I have to be honest, its clear the guy is fishing for views when he steps out of the Product Review videos and does a more controversial episode on purpose. What the guy needs to do is stick to more positive and informative content, as while it won't net him as many likes or views or subs in the short-term it will keep the drama down on his channel.
If prodded I will give more exact examples of TCC's videos in a similar process as comparison but basically: TCC's videos get more views in general, tend to have a better Like/Dislike ratio and the drama with Jeremy stayed pretty much in the comment section of "In Response: What We Owe To Each Other".
Given his like to dislike ratio vs number of views he's actually doing pretty badly right now compared to other youtube channels. He's also had many of his videos reported recently thanks in large part to the drama. When youtube takes down a video (which is what happened to one of the videos that actually had his questionable behavior on display), that generally happens due to user reports and a lot of them.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Thank you, HL, for answering the alt-right/alt-left question before I had a chance to. Alt-right is indeed a self-identifier. There is no group that identifies as the alt-left.
If anything, this thread demonstrates how very much we do not need Debate back.
There are undoubtedly serious problems with debate, especially the expectation that it's going to be moderated with an all-volunteer squad. But sometimes I wonder if the fact that there's a back and forth at all is considered to be part of the problem. I hope it's not.
It was very clear from the beginning of this thread that personal insults and slurs were not desired, nor would they be accepted. But the specific ban on 'alt-left' (preceded by the similar-ish specific ban on 'SJW') on the grounds that they are not self-identifiers is, I've gotta say, pretty odd.
They're not odd in a vacuum: the use of those phrases as insults directed at specific people is likely to sink a thread. But they're odd in context. The context being that you are posting front page articles about this same subject which hurl around 'Nazi' and talk about all of the fictitiously rampant Nazi sympathy that's supposed to exist here. We (likely) all agree that that is a terrible thing to be, and I hardly see why 'alt-left' would be worse simply because it's not a self-identifier. I'd rather be 'alt-left' than a Nazi.
Anyway, article vs. thread... two different things, you might say. But to me it seems like there might be a disconnect in the way the show's being run, that's all.
Gravely incorrect. False accusations must be swiftly cut down, or they encourage more grandstanding and accusations. Apologize for what?
First, let's be clear: there are no false accusations here. I can pick a random video from basically any of his accounts and see him insulting or otherwise belittling others. The degree might be up for debate, but nobody can say with a straight face that Jeremy does not habitually call-out and otherwise mock basically everyone. Saying they are false accusations is downright deceptive.
Second, obviously he should have apologized when he realized what a *****-storm he'd caused, i.e. when he learned that Christine had singled him out as the primary cause of her leaving. Regardless of his personal feelings about the degree of his "memeing", as he likes to call it, he should have recognized that his actions offended her in some unintended (at least, I pray it was unintended but I seriously doubt it) way and reached out to sincerely apologize to her. To ask her what, exactly, was the problem. To ask what he could do to fix it, if possible. To, generally speaking, act like an adult. Instead he acted like a petulant child, threw a temper-tantrum, and now continues to refuse to acknowledge any blame on his part while casting himself as the victim of a witch hunt. Some of us might recognize that as the exact opposite of the thing he should have done.
I certainly don't condone the harassment he's received (almost entirely as a result of his own actions, I might point out), but I have to admit the amount of irony at work here is just absolutely delicious to me. I just hope the irony isn't lost of Jeremy, and that he grows as a person because of this ordeal, but judging from his earlier reactions I'd say that's not terribly likely.
There are undoubtedly serious problems with debate, especially the expectation that it's going to be moderated with an all-volunteer squad. But sometimes I wonder if the fact that there's a back and forth at all is considered to be part of the problem. I hope it's not.
It was very clear from the beginning of this thread that personal insults and slurs were not desired, nor would they be accepted. But the specific ban on 'alt-left' (preceded by the similar-ish specific ban on 'SJW') on the grounds that they are not self-identifiers is, I've gotta say, pretty odd.
They're not odd in a vacuum: the use of those phrases as insults directed at specific people is likely to sink a thread. But they're odd in context. The context being that you are posting front page articles about this same subject which hurl around 'Nazi' and talk about all of the fictitiously rampant Nazi sympathy that's supposed to exist here. We (likely) all agree that that is a terrible thing to be, and I hardly see why 'alt-left' would be worse simply because it's not a self-identifier. I'd rather be 'alt-left' than a Nazi.
Anyway, article vs. thread... two different things, you might say. But to me it seems like there might be a disconnect in the way the show's being run, that's all.
The issue is more that there isn't a back and forth. A huge number of people (on both sides), have taken to coming into arguments not in good faith, with the intent to frustrate, troll, waste the time of the people who take the time to respond, and generally be unpleasant.
We've discussed the ban of SJW a couple of times in the thread, but I'll touch on it again. A) It's a term that is solely used as a pejorative (as is "alt-left", "PC police", "cultural Marxism", and a few other effective synonyms) to denigrate people with opposing views, and B) It legitimately has nothing to do with the situation at hand, as neither Christine Sprankle nor Jeremy Hamby and his followers qualify as "SJWs". It's just being used to divert the conversation to complain.
As far as the front-page article goes, I've also acknowledged in a couple of places that the article could have benefited from some additional editing to maximize clarity and reduce how inflammatory it was perceived as. Discussion on Nazis was used to show a parallel to the current situation - both Nazis as harassers are groups that are near universally reviled, yet an alarming number of people seem eager to rush to the defense of these groups when they take prominent and visible actions. If you read the article directly (and again, this is an area that could have been edited to ensure complete clarity), the only people who are actually called Nazis are A) literal Neo-Nazis such as those that marched in Charlottesville, B) literal historical Nazis in WW2, and C) literal digital Nazis in the Wolfenstein games.
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Gravely incorrect. False accusations must be swiftly cut down, or they encourage more grandstanding and accusations. Apologize for what?
First, let's be clear: there are no false accusations here. I can pick a random video from basically any of his accounts and see him insulting or otherwise belittling others. The degree might be up for debate, but nobody can say with a straight face that Jeremy does not habitually call-out and otherwise mock basically everyone. Saying they are false accusations is downright deceptive.
Second, obviously he should have apologized when he realized what a *****-storm he'd caused, i.e. when he learned that Christine had singled him out as the primary cause of her leaving. Regardless of his personal feelings about the degree of his "memeing", as he likes to call it, he should have recognized that his actions offended her in some unintended (at least, I pray it was unintended but I seriously doubt it) way and reached out to sincerely apologize to her. To ask her what, exactly, was the problem. To ask what he could do to fix it, if possible. To, generally speaking, act like an adult. Instead he acted like a petulant child, threw a temper-tantrum, and now continues to refuse to acknowledge any blame on his part while casting himself as the victim of a witch hunt. Some of us might recognize that as the exact opposite of the thing he should have done.
I certainly don't condone the harassment he's received (almost entirely as a result of his own actions, I might point out), but I have to admit the amount of irony at work here is just absolutely delicious to me. I just hope the irony isn't lost of Jeremy, and that he grows as a person because of this ordeal, but judging from his earlier reactions I'd say that's not terribly likely.
Wait his crime is being offensive now?
In the real world of being an adult there are repercussions for being intentionally offensive amd harassing people. Calling it a crime is misleading and missing the point. If he wants to spit on the other kids at school, he gets detention and recess taken away. He also has no right to bemoan other people calling him out for it.
That said, he can, shockingly I know, ne two things at the same tike. And, shockingly, people can criticize him for one thing witjout it being changing the goal posts. It is called "depth" amd "nuance".
Gravely incorrect. False accusations must be swiftly cut down, or they encourage more grandstanding and accusations. Apologize for what?
First, let's be clear: there are no false accusations here. I can pick a random video from basically any of his accounts and see him insulting or otherwise belittling others. The degree might be up for debate, but nobody can say with a straight face that Jeremy does not habitually call-out and otherwise mock basically everyone. Saying they are false accusations is downright deceptive.
Second, obviously he should have apologized when he realized what a *****-storm he'd caused, i.e. when he learned that Christine had singled him out as the primary cause of her leaving. Regardless of his personal feelings about the degree of his "memeing", as he likes to call it, he should have recognized that his actions offended her in some unintended (at least, I pray it was unintended but I seriously doubt it) way and reached out to sincerely apologize to her. To ask her what, exactly, was the problem. To ask what he could do to fix it, if possible. To, generally speaking, act like an adult. Instead he acted like a petulant child, threw a temper-tantrum, and now continues to refuse to acknowledge any blame on his part while casting himself as the victim of a witch hunt. Some of us might recognize that as the exact opposite of the thing he should have done.
I certainly don't condone the harassment he's received (almost entirely as a result of his own actions, I might point out), but I have to admit the amount of irony at work here is just absolutely delicious to me. I just hope the irony isn't lost of Jeremy, and that he grows as a person because of this ordeal, but judging from his earlier reactions I'd say that's not terribly likely.
Wait his crime is being offensive now?
Hard to tell if you are being intentionally obtuse but insulting/belittling/harassing is not simply being offensive. A comedian telling the Aristocrats joke is just being offensive. It should be readily apparent to anyone that there is a difference.
Gravely incorrect. False accusations must be swiftly cut down, or they encourage more grandstanding and accusations. Apologize for what?
First, let's be clear: there are no false accusations here. I can pick a random video from basically any of his accounts and see him insulting or otherwise belittling others. The degree might be up for debate, but nobody can say with a straight face that Jeremy does not habitually call-out and otherwise mock basically everyone. Saying they are false accusations is downright deceptive.
Second, obviously he should have apologized when he realized what a *****-storm he'd caused, i.e. when he learned that Christine had singled him out as the primary cause of her leaving. Regardless of his personal feelings about the degree of his "memeing", as he likes to call it, he should have recognized that his actions offended her in some unintended (at least, I pray it was unintended but I seriously doubt it) way and reached out to sincerely apologize to her. To ask her what, exactly, was the problem. To ask what he could do to fix it, if possible. To, generally speaking, act like an adult. Instead he acted like a petulant child, threw a temper-tantrum, and now continues to refuse to acknowledge any blame on his part while casting himself as the victim of a witch hunt. Some of us might recognize that as the exact opposite of the thing he should have done.
I certainly don't condone the harassment he's received (almost entirely as a result of his own actions, I might point out), but I have to admit the amount of irony at work here is just absolutely delicious to me. I just hope the irony isn't lost of Jeremy, and that he grows as a person because of this ordeal, but judging from his earlier reactions I'd say that's not terribly likely.
Wait his crime is being offensive now?
Depending on the act which is offensive, yes it is a crime, depending on where you live.
I mean you can dance around the issue all you want. This individual is not just offensive, he is abusive, he is inciting hate, and he and those who support him, are not in the right, and in the 'real world' their behavior has consequences.
In the pre-internet days, that kind of behavior simply gets you beat up, but we dont live in that world anymore, which is what I find so comical with these types of individuals.
They are loud, abrasive, antagonistic and abusive to anyone they dont see as 'tough enough' to 'take a joke', but in the days of my youth, he would simply have been assaulted for his behavior, as would most of these people.
I'm mostly tired of the foolhardy who keep wanting to generalize and group people under meaningless terms, or terms that were invented by people pushing their own agendas. If the university researchers and philosophers of our day can't even come up with a definitive, universal meaning for justice in terms of society, I have no interest in this giant useless garbage dump that is the term social justice warrior. If someone uses the term they have zero interest in even gaining a rudimentary understanding of the targets point of view and if someone invents a term like it they are only interested in pushing a personal agenda.
Jeremy's point of view that sparked this entire thing is that he doesn't like scantly clad women and cosplayers because he believes they are in general trying to take advantage of young men. That's a very over generalized point of view and because it was so over generalized everyone in their right mind saw that it was a bad point of view to take. Whether that actually is his point of view or he did a very poor job communicating his point of view is his own problem. The reality is that the message he sent is the over generalization. As for the rest it really feels like some dominoes were set up due to his relationship with other youtubers, the audience he was (and probably still is) catering to, and people just being relatively on the down with wizards of the coast.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Public Mod Note (Jay13x): Warning for Trolling - You've asked this so many times across many threads and gotten plenty of answers. At this point it's clear you're not actually interested in evidence, just spreading doubt.
Reason why I want evidence is because nobody seems able to find anything. I know that people have said that Hambly deletes tweets and videos but as far as I know this harassment has gone for months if not years so I doubt Hambly has managed to delete everything from the internet. I'm sure Sprankle has evidence stored up on her computer even by accident at this point.
What I consider evidence is where something was sent directly to Sprankle by Hambly. A video, tweet, email, a letter, etc. Ideally a video where Sprankle is at a convention and Hambly in person harasses her. Honestly if Sprankle says she can't show the evidence because it contains sensitive information it would make her case look much better. A police report that Sprankle has filled out would be great too.
I went through the entire thread from post #1 to post #490 and this is what was linked:
Videos:
The tolarian community video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nslCeqwKuCk
-Professor only shows "evidence at 4:40 to 6:50 that are about Sprankle. The "evidence" has Hambly criticizing (according to the professor) Sprankle for various things. Hambly's video isn't directed at Sprankle and neither are the tweets. Unless Sprankle herself follows Hambly on social media how is she going to even see these things?
https://imgur.com/a/tkFqk
-A pic that shows Sprankle's declining Patreon revenue. I don't know the source of this.
So that is everything that has been posted on this thread and on some thread on reddit. If mods think criticism (not according to me but according to the Professor who's video is linked in the op) is harassment then I guess my warning was justified and I'll stop asking for evidence.
Gravely incorrect. False accusations must be swiftly cut down, or they encourage more grandstanding and accusations. Apologize for what?
First, let's be clear: there are no false accusations here. I can pick a random video from basically any of his accounts and see him insulting or otherwise belittling others. The degree might be up for debate, but nobody can say with a straight face that Jeremy does not habitually call-out and otherwise mock basically everyone. Saying they are false accusations is downright deceptive.
Second, obviously he should have apologized when he realized what a *****-storm he'd caused, i.e. when he learned that Christine had singled him out as the primary cause of her leaving. Regardless of his personal feelings about the degree of his "memeing", as he likes to call it, he should have recognized that his actions offended her in some unintended (at least, I pray it was unintended but I seriously doubt it) way and reached out to sincerely apologize to her. To ask her what, exactly, was the problem. To ask what he could do to fix it, if possible. To, generally speaking, act like an adult. Instead he acted like a petulant child, threw a temper-tantrum, and now continues to refuse to acknowledge any blame on his part while casting himself as the victim of a witch hunt. Some of us might recognize that as the exact opposite of the thing he should have done.
I certainly don't condone the harassment he's received (almost entirely as a result of his own actions, I might point out), but I have to admit the amount of irony at work here is just absolutely delicious to me. I just hope the irony isn't lost of Jeremy, and that he grows as a person because of this ordeal, but judging from his earlier reactions I'd say that's not terribly likely.
Wait his crime is being offensive now?
Depending on the act which is offensive, yes it is a crime, depending on where you live.
I mean you can dance around the issue all you want. This individual is not just offensive, he is abusive, he is inciting hate, and he and those who support him, are not in the right, and in the 'real world' their behavior has consequences.
In the pre-internet days, that kind of behavior simply gets you beat up, but we dont live in that world anymore, which is what I find so comical with these types of individuals.
They are loud, abrasive, antagonistic and abusive to anyone they dont see as 'tough enough' to 'take a joke', but in the days of my youth, he would simply have been assaulted for his behavior, as would most of these people.
John Stuart Mill argued that the chief threat to free speech in democracies was not the state, but the “social tyranny” of one’s fellow citizens. And yet today, the civil libertarians who style themselves as Mill’s inheritors have for the most part failed to refute, or even address, the arguments about free speech and equality that their opponents are making.
However I pinched myself a couple times just to make sure I'm not just asleep or something. As I am right now wondering myself like "This really can't be happening, right?". As when I think about the guy has sworn enemies, that he was betrayed by his closest ally, that he is trying to gain status and fame through questionable methods.
When reading the various posts, this quoted one included on the reasoning, am I the only one here who was thinking of that Spiderman joke:
Or with other things like Br'er Rabbit and the whole:
Or with Obi-Wan Kenobi where he was all like:
Jeremy's whole statement about cosplaying "not having any impact on players" and is "just lingerie" is true, albeit in a rather unnecessarily blunt manner. Cosplayers don't have any direct impact on how we play the game and do indeed add some additional flare to the game, even if in rather sexually suggestive manners at times. If he just wanted to get bring up that detail, it would've been fine, but instead he had take it a step further and portray Sprankle and other cosplayers as "whores crying for Patreon money." What exactly does he intend to gain from doing that? He puts offensive statements in his content, which puts his own channel at risk of being flagged and taken down all to raise an opinion? It just doesn't seem sensible, but it doesn't matter; if there's a toxic person in the community, that person needs to go regardless of the motive.
More concerning for me is that after scrolling through a couple of his videos, I notice most of them have far more likes than dislikes. Others claiming Jeremy to be downright toxic to MTG community believe that people like him are just a loud minority, but what if that's not the case? What if they're the majority and the people who actively try to be friendly and accommodating to others are the minority? The times I've gone to FNM following this whole incident, I can't help but look at everyone in the store and the people I'm facing and thinking to myself: "What if this person is really a misogynistic jerk?" Moreover, what does that say for me, even being there hanging out these potentially toxic people? At this point, I'm not quite sure what to believe anymore.
Now for part 2 of this little experiment, we need the same number of videos leading up to the Catalyst.
What I noticed was:
1) His normal videos, based on sample, that show off a product don't reach 20k Views.
2) His more controversial videos are the ones that reach 19k or more Views regularly.
3) His dislikes have only recently spiked up since the "Lootboxes" video.
4) People routinely started leaving rude comments about him since the "Vanguard Box" video, post-catalyst.
5) The Likes/Dislikes on the "Final Fantasy" video are closer to "Collector's Box" to "Vanguard Box" videos.
6) From the "True Harassment" video to the "Get Your Damaged Cards" videos his views were dramatically dropping back down.
7) His views floated around 19-28k for the three videos of "Do Not Quit", "Sunlight" and "Ban Update".
8) While this is a bit of cheating with an unseen hand, the "Final Fantasy" video posted today had similar praise in the comment section to TCC's "Tolarian Tutor: How To Be A Better Control Player in Magic: The Gathering" from 6 days ago in that it was consider "drama free".
So if I have to be honest, its clear the guy is fishing for views when he steps out of the Product Review videos and does a more controversial episode on purpose. What the guy needs to do is stick to more positive and informative content, as while it won't net him as many likes or views or subs in the short-term it will keep the drama down on his channel.
If prodded I will give more exact examples of TCC's videos in a similar process as comparison but basically: TCC's videos get more views in general, tend to have a better Like/Dislike ratio and the drama with Jeremy stayed pretty much in the comment section of "In Response: What We Owe To Each Other".
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Anyway, on topic, there are a few things to remember about Jeremy:
- He has Lifelink: Every time you clash with him, he gains life. Conflict strengthens him.
- He has Double-strike: Whenever you hit him, he hits back twice as hard. This is because he is twice as malicious, has twice as much free time, and his career depends on hitting hard.
- He has Indestructible: Regular damage is ineffective against him. He is impervious to shame. To defeat him, he must be exiled, from the conversation and from the game.
-- The Gatewatch
Very interesting metaphor, at the very least.
OK now that's interesting so then maybe YouTube may also be at fault here for hosting environment where toxic content could easily thrive?
Hahahaha, no... Pop that thought bubble. In the “court of public opinion”, sure, from a legal standpoint? Good luck with that one.
Views and Dislikes/Likes mean less than Time Watched now. However that doesn't mean the two factors (L/D and V) can't be used to analyze trends within a sub group. The more natural state of Jeremy's videos are ones where he shows off a product, 3-18k views, far more likes than dislikes on the video. When he does a more controversial video its like he kicked a beehive which is why there is a spike in all three of these areas.
Aside from a single rude comment towards Jeremy in his "Final Fantasy" video, the comment section is very tame compared to past comment sections where he kicked the beehive. It also only has 89 comments as of writing compared to its next door neighbor "Ban Update" which has 333 comments. Which shows the discussion has effectively died down.
Knee-jerk reactions are one of the most annoying things to become prominent on the internet. I could write an article with a title like:
and its sure to get clicks because 1) Its topical, 2) The controversial language of the title. Even if the article is actually benign, there is going to be that knee-jerk reaction from people whose curiosity gets the better of them.
This is a sizable population. It is irrelevant if the community at large calls out his behavior as vile, because there are enough people to who he will find support for his hateful messages.
The only answer, is for Wizards to official cut him out in any way (promotion, mentions, etc) ban him from events if his behavior is against their rules and guidelines, and for us, to not feed into the attention which he desires.
Spirits
Given his like to dislike ratio vs number of views he's actually doing pretty badly right now compared to other youtube channels. He's also had many of his videos reported recently thanks in large part to the drama. When youtube takes down a video (which is what happened to one of the videos that actually had his questionable behavior on display), that generally happens due to user reports and a lot of them.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There are undoubtedly serious problems with debate, especially the expectation that it's going to be moderated with an all-volunteer squad. But sometimes I wonder if the fact that there's a back and forth at all is considered to be part of the problem. I hope it's not.
It was very clear from the beginning of this thread that personal insults and slurs were not desired, nor would they be accepted. But the specific ban on 'alt-left' (preceded by the similar-ish specific ban on 'SJW') on the grounds that they are not self-identifiers is, I've gotta say, pretty odd.
They're not odd in a vacuum: the use of those phrases as insults directed at specific people is likely to sink a thread. But they're odd in context. The context being that you are posting front page articles about this same subject which hurl around 'Nazi' and talk about all of the fictitiously rampant Nazi sympathy that's supposed to exist here. We (likely) all agree that that is a terrible thing to be, and I hardly see why 'alt-left' would be worse simply because it's not a self-identifier. I'd rather be 'alt-left' than a Nazi.
Anyway, article vs. thread... two different things, you might say. But to me it seems like there might be a disconnect in the way the show's being run, that's all.
Wait his crime is being offensive now?
The issue is more that there isn't a back and forth. A huge number of people (on both sides), have taken to coming into arguments not in good faith, with the intent to frustrate, troll, waste the time of the people who take the time to respond, and generally be unpleasant.
We've discussed the ban of SJW a couple of times in the thread, but I'll touch on it again. A) It's a term that is solely used as a pejorative (as is "alt-left", "PC police", "cultural Marxism", and a few other effective synonyms) to denigrate people with opposing views, and B) It legitimately has nothing to do with the situation at hand, as neither Christine Sprankle nor Jeremy Hamby and his followers qualify as "SJWs". It's just being used to divert the conversation to complain.
As far as the front-page article goes, I've also acknowledged in a couple of places that the article could have benefited from some additional editing to maximize clarity and reduce how inflammatory it was perceived as. Discussion on Nazis was used to show a parallel to the current situation - both Nazis as harassers are groups that are near universally reviled, yet an alarming number of people seem eager to rush to the defense of these groups when they take prominent and visible actions. If you read the article directly (and again, this is an area that could have been edited to ensure complete clarity), the only people who are actually called Nazis are A) literal Neo-Nazis such as those that marched in Charlottesville, B) literal historical Nazis in WW2, and C) literal digital Nazis in the Wolfenstein games.
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In the real world of being an adult there are repercussions for being intentionally offensive amd harassing people. Calling it a crime is misleading and missing the point. If he wants to spit on the other kids at school, he gets detention and recess taken away. He also has no right to bemoan other people calling him out for it.
That said, he can, shockingly I know, ne two things at the same tike. And, shockingly, people can criticize him for one thing witjout it being changing the goal posts. It is called "depth" amd "nuance".
Hard to tell if you are being intentionally obtuse but insulting/belittling/harassing is not simply being offensive. A comedian telling the Aristocrats joke is just being offensive. It should be readily apparent to anyone that there is a difference.
Depending on the act which is offensive, yes it is a crime, depending on where you live.
I mean you can dance around the issue all you want. This individual is not just offensive, he is abusive, he is inciting hate, and he and those who support him, are not in the right, and in the 'real world' their behavior has consequences.
In the pre-internet days, that kind of behavior simply gets you beat up, but we dont live in that world anymore, which is what I find so comical with these types of individuals.
They are loud, abrasive, antagonistic and abusive to anyone they dont see as 'tough enough' to 'take a joke', but in the days of my youth, he would simply have been assaulted for his behavior, as would most of these people.
Spirits
Jeremy's point of view that sparked this entire thing is that he doesn't like scantly clad women and cosplayers because he believes they are in general trying to take advantage of young men. That's a very over generalized point of view and because it was so over generalized everyone in their right mind saw that it was a bad point of view to take. Whether that actually is his point of view or he did a very poor job communicating his point of view is his own problem. The reality is that the message he sent is the over generalization. As for the rest it really feels like some dominoes were set up due to his relationship with other youtubers, the audience he was (and probably still is) catering to, and people just being relatively on the down with wizards of the coast.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Reason why I want evidence is because nobody seems able to find anything. I know that people have said that Hambly deletes tweets and videos but as far as I know this harassment has gone for months if not years so I doubt Hambly has managed to delete everything from the internet. I'm sure Sprankle has evidence stored up on her computer even by accident at this point.
What I consider evidence is where something was sent directly to Sprankle by Hambly. A video, tweet, email, a letter, etc. Ideally a video where Sprankle is at a convention and Hambly in person harasses her. Honestly if Sprankle says she can't show the evidence because it contains sensitive information it would make her case look much better. A police report that Sprankle has filled out would be great too.
I went through the entire thread from post #1 to post #490 and this is what was linked:
Videos:
The tolarian community video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nslCeqwKuCk
-Professor only shows "evidence at 4:40 to 6:50 that are about Sprankle. The "evidence" has Hambly criticizing (according to the professor) Sprankle for various things. Hambly's video isn't directed at Sprankle and neither are the tweets. Unless Sprankle herself follows Hambly on social media how is she going to even see these things?
Some mini documentary by wizards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZEfr4j61KI
-This video is totally unrelated to the discussion at hand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhmwUkZrKKM
-Honestly I personally think DesolatarMagic is an idiot so try to avoid him whenever possible and so I didn't watch the video.
Articles
None of these have any pics of harassment linked so I didn't read them.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14316&writer=Brian Braun-Duin&articledate=11-30-2017
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49677-if-you-cant-take-criticism-of-jeremy-hambly-youre
https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/29/16709796/magic-the-gathering-cosplayer-harassment-youtube
Tweets
https://twitter.com/GemOfMagic/status/930265446133014529
-None of these people are Hambly so it's not really relevant. Apparently some people were upset at Sprankle for playing "flip it or rip it" -game.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GabySpartz/status/930900145843113985
-Honestly I'm not sure what this is about. I don't think it's relevant either.
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/931189044905742338
https://twitter.com/UnsleevedMedia/status/928005024474681345
-Both tweets by Hambly and neither of them are sent to Sprankle.
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/935731825242247168
-Another tweet by Hambly and I assume it's a response to all the people who desided to attack Hambly due to this drama. It's not really relevant either.
Other links
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/7fb3iz/christine_sprankle_quitting_magic_cosplay_due_to/#bottom-comments
-I went through this reddit thread as well because it was linked in the thread and some of the links I provided here are from there. I can't remember which ones though.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5j4c4ed8r2d8x5m/AABCjyKqaUYpizhTBN4b3DdLa?dl=0
-As far as I know this dropbox belongs to the professor and he has provided "Evidence of Abuse". None of them are sent at Sprankle so not really relevant.
https://imgur.com/HuTkjdS
-I think Hambly made this pic.
https://i.imgur.com/Mh7G7JU.jpg
-The tweet by Sprankle that started it all. Sprankle has protected her tweets.
https://imgur.com/a/tkFqk
-A pic that shows Sprankle's declining Patreon revenue. I don't know the source of this.
So that is everything that has been posted on this thread and on some thread on reddit. If mods think criticism (not according to me but according to the Professor who's video is linked in the op) is harassment then I guess my warning was justified and I'll stop asking for evidence.
Hate speech?
How is it possibly hate speech?
Modern: Mono-Red Control, Lantern Control, Eldrazi Taxes, Skred Infect
Pauper: Affinity
EDH: Gaddock Teeg Kithkin Tribal, Meren
Legacy: 8 Rack, Omnitell (Both in progress)
John Stuart Mill argued that the chief threat to free speech in democracies was not the state, but the “social tyranny” of one’s fellow citizens. And yet today, the civil libertarians who style themselves as Mill’s inheritors have for the most part failed to refute, or even address, the arguments about free speech and equality that their opponents are making.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-concepts-of-freedom-of-speech/546791/