Not really much to add to the discussion. Any form of harassment and bullying is horrendous and should be dealt with by the proper people, be they WotC, YouTube, and/or the authorities.
Also, not entirely unrelated. Jeremy is in violation of YouTube's community policy regarding hate speech as outlined here and he can be banned from the site because of it. He may be able to delete the videos so they can't be seen, but google saves everything.
I looked at the reporting options and it seems to be focused on comments instead of reporting video content. It does infer video content, but how exactly do we report it?
Once you are logged in on YouTube you should see three dots under the video ( ... ), click on it and you can report the video for various things, like it being in violation of your IP, or as is the case with him, harassment/hate speech.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
The critic is if cosplay goes as far as to be commercial it also comes down to "sex sells" , and at that point it becomes exactly the same deal as models that show themselves in sexualized pictures , that clearly sells ; to weak minded male or not, is another topic on its own, and adults can spend their money as they like, but in the end, how exactly is that part of the game Magic the Gathering ? Do we need it ? Do we even want it ?
If someone earns money selling their body its fine and if someone earns critic for that its sexismn or an insult ?
Come on.
I must say, i dislike it.
I dont think we have to go and forbid cosplay at magic events, but i still think we have to make sure female (and male) cosplayers do not downright become live-strippers at Grand Prix events , even if some might enjoy that, its not the right place. Do that on a website, your youtube channel or whatever form of media you want to, and still someone will critic you for that, positive or negative, which you can either accept or ignore, and if you think its insulting or somewhat hurts you, solve it by communicating.
Isnt that a valid point ? (For me it is, and for Jeremy as well)
And even if you disagree, do not just call it stupid, that doesnt help any argument.
----
And for the critic on that.
If someone has a payed job to cosplay, i have every right to critic what they are doing, as i critic the job.
And for someone that sells its own body, the body is somewhat part of the job, so what is an insult to a private person could very well be just critic to a model.
So yes context matters a lot. Sexualized comments are on the very same line than show casting your body in a sexualized manner at live events , posting sexualized pictures and getting "payed" for them by your donator.
I believe these are valid points and ignoring them is as ignorant as just ignoring any other (if you have arguments provide them, but just calling the other opinion stupid isnt helping anybody and just fuels the fire that prevents any further discussion, so it hurts the own argument).
----
The basic issue with Jeremy and Sprinkle is downright laughable small.
Its just comments, somebody said something about another and thats it.
If you have a true issue with that, there is plenty of room and options to solve them, without going to public and blaming someone else for your own actions.
That means, if she wants to quit magic cosplay, go ahead, your choice.
Blaming Jeremy for it in public ? That clearly incited hate mobs , so it was a bad move and i really believe she didnt see that comming, even the respons of the Professor i truly believe he simply didnt know that his video would also incite hate mobs further ; he thought it would just express his opinion (which it does) , but as a public person it will not be the right channel to express that ;
*Which leads to another problem that personal issues should be better expressed as a separate channel that is exactly for that, a more private one, that clearly distances itself from "magic" , so stuff doesnt get mixed up ; the very same for this issue here, distancing it from magic would be better, but as it is, stuff gets mixed up and topics are thrown together left and right, suddenly its all about politics, sexismn and what not, while the basic true issue bogs down to a bunch of twitter comments and youtube channels, which is downright laughable in its impact compared to what monster evolved out of this.
----
He also has a point that a lot of people cannot even express their true opinion, as they are in a real danger to get caught by the *****-train in public and depend on public opinion for their job and income.
So this further diffuses a public image that is drawn, and countless people just join one mob, they dont even care to have any argument at all, they are happy if at the end someone is bloody and destroyed, thats what they think is a "solution", thats crazy, its chaos and self-justice, anything but reasonable.
Its really easy to just look at videos and people that have a very similiar opinion that you have.
But that doesnt give you any new ideas, it just fuels your illusion that "everyone" has that opinion, which isnt the case.
If you want an open discussion you have to listen to the other side, no matter how stupid they might sound for you.
Then you can bring arguments and find some common ground, or help to solve issues that arise without burning places and people ; it doesnt help any discussion to threaten anybody.
Public Mod Note
(Wildfire393):
Your views on what cosplay constitutes are absurdly demeaning to women and are a serious contributor to the problems we are currently facing.
There is a good debate to be had on sexualisation in gaming and on a narrower level in Magic. Absolutely.
This debate would necessarily include cosplay. Fine.
However you're suggesting in your comment immediately above that these *genuine* concerns are being shut down.
Not true. This guy targeted people. The "other side" you're referring to is the side which says it's "her fault" or "she knew what she was doing" or "Jeremy did nothing wrong" other such comments I've seen repeated over the last few days.
The issue is harassment. The "other side" is wrong to defend him. Should he in-turn be harassed? No! Harassment is wrong. Should he be flagged for inappropriate or hateful content? Yes! His right to free expression does not extend to using other people's platforms to insult and demean people.
Now, that greater debate about sexualisation, fine, we can have that debate. It's fair, it's important. But it can't devolve into slagging people off or publicly shaming or insulting people, or rabble-rousing. Jeremy took it to this place, and THAT'S what the problem is.
Get that straight. Understand the issue.
Jeremy himself is trying to muddy the waters by misleading people into thinking it's an attack on free speech and it's thought-policing, but this was never the point. The point is it's just not ok to hurt or upset people because of "memes" or whatever. The trolling and edge-lord stuff he subscribes to is not ok, and if there was ever a legitimate point he was trying to make, he made it poorly by making it personal and contorting his arguments into attacks.
No you didnt correct anything, we are just supposed to talk about how shocked we are that someone who refuses to back down has a sizable following.
Yeah... no.
The narrative that he said one mean thing to her in one video six months ago is the narrative I have dispelled on multiple occasions, and is the narrative that people keep repeating. He made a great many statements about her over the past year and a half, and the last time he did was about a week before this crap went down, dragging her into his argument that Spike, Tournament Grinder being female was a terrible thing, and that this is harming the game. I don't know why he felt the need to drag her into that argument, I have no clue why he had to denigrate her appearance in the process, and I have no clue why he decides to harass her, without provocation, on numerous occasions over several months. But he did.
The simple fact is he has a hate-on for her, and has made it clear publicly. He dresses it up as some greater political issue, and dresses it up as him not saying anything about her ever except once, but that's simply lying at this point.
The issue with the "sexualization" of cosplay is a broader one, but we have no right to police peoples choice of dress and how they want to spend their free time (provided, of course, that it's within legal reason, which this all is). If they can monetize what they love, it's no different than a youtuber monetizing his content.
As for arguments concerning the sexualization of Sprankles cosplay itself, it's utter nonsense. Very few of her costumes are revealing, and if they are, they're accurate to the characters she is portraying (something very important in the cosplay community).
Since she doesn't actually dress "sexy" in the standard sense, is the argument then that she's selling sex simply because she's female? Because we've stumbled on the most base definition of sexism imaginable right there.
This is the kind of logic that Jeremy is using and why, again, the community continues to speak out against it.
Oh and before I bow out of this completely, I'd just like to share:
After commenting on this stuff (specifically to counter the hateful statements of victim-blaming individuals) on SCG, my Facebook account was placed under siege for about 24 hours as hundreds of attempts were made to log in by different people in what can only have been a concerted and targeted attack.
Harassment is not ok, but apparently this simple message was so absurd and inciting that multiple people took the time and effort to try and break into my personal accounts for nefarious purposes.
I'm not going to comment on this matter any more, I can't risk my personal safety on attempting to reason with people over this issue.
The critic is if cosplay goes as far as to be commercial it also comes down to "sex sells" , and at that point it becomes exactly the same deal as models that show themselves in sexualized pictures , that clearly sells ; to weak minded male or not, is another topic on its own, and adults can spend their money as they like, but in the end, how exactly is that part of the game Magic the Gathering ? Do we need it ? Do we even want it ?
If someone earns money selling their body its fine and if someone earns critic for that its sexismn or an insult ?
Come on.
I must say, i dislike it.
I dont think we have to go and forbid cosplay at magic events, but i still think we have to make sure female (and male) cosplayers do not downright become live-strippers at Grand Prix events , even if some might enjoy that, its not the right place. Do that on a website, your youtube channel or whatever form of media you want to, and still someone will critic you for that, positive or negative, which you can either accept or ignore, and if you think its insulting or somewhat hurts you, solve it by communicating.
Isnt that a valid point ? (For me it is, and for Jeremy as well)
And even if you disagree, do not just call it stupid, that doesnt help any argument.
----
And for the critic on that.
If someone has a payed job to cosplay, i have every right to critic what they are doing, as i critic the job.
And for someone that sells its own body, the body is somewhat part of the job, so what is an insult to a private person could very well be just critic to a model.
So yes context matters a lot. Sexualized comments are on the very same line than show casting your body in a sexualized manner at live events , posting sexualized pictures and getting "payed" for them by your donator.
I believe these are valid points and ignoring them is as ignorant as just ignoring any other (if you have arguments provide them, but just calling the other opinion stupid isnt helping anybody and just fuels the fire that prevents any further discussion, so it hurts the own argument).
----
The basic issue with Jeremy and Sprinkle is downright laughable small.
Its just comments, somebody said something about another and thats it.
If you have a true issue with that, there is plenty of room and options to solve them, without going to public and blaming someone else for your own actions.
That means, if she wants to quit magic cosplay, go ahead, your choice.
Blaming Jeremy for it in public ? That clearly incited hate mobs , so it was a bad move and i really believe she didnt see that comming, even the respons of the Professor i truly believe he simply didnt know that his video would also incite hate mobs further ; he thought it would just express his opinion (which it does) , but as a public person it will not be the right channel to express that ;
*Which leads to another problem that personal issues should be better expressed as a separate channel that is exactly for that, a more private one, that clearly distances itself from "magic" , so stuff doesnt get mixed up ; the very same for this issue here, distancing it from magic would be better, but as it is, stuff gets mixed up and topics are thrown together left and right, suddenly its all about politics, sexismn and what not, while the basic true issue bogs down to a bunch of twitter comments and youtube channels, which is downright laughable in its impact compared to what monster evolved out of this.
----
He also has a point that a lot of people cannot even express their true opinion, as they are in a real danger to get caught by the *****-train in public and depend on public opinion for their job and income.
So this further diffuses a public image that is drawn, and countless people just join one mob, they dont even care to have any argument at all, they are happy if at the end someone is bloody and destroyed, thats what they think is a "solution", thats crazy, its chaos and self-justice, anything but reasonable.
Its really easy to just look at videos and people that have a very similiar opinion that you have.
But that doesnt give you any new ideas, it just fuels your illusion that "everyone" has that opinion, which isnt the case.
If you want an open discussion you have to listen to the other side, no matter how stupid they might sound for you.
Then you can bring arguments and find some common ground, or help to solve issues that arise without burning places and people ; it doesnt help any discussion to threaten anybody.
Allow me to frame this in a matter that is a bit more clear:
Jeremy has made it a point to argue that Wizards catering to social issues is, in effect, ruining the game. He has made it a point to argue, for instance, that not only was it pointless to make Spike, Tournament Grinder female, but it is actively harming the game because it is pushing social issues on individuals on people who do not want it pushed on them, and it is focusing on things that do not matter. He has equally argued that female cosplayers are more or less predators who at best don't deserve recognition, and at worst are trying to prey on young men who don't know any better. He has made his opinion very clear that Wizards focusing on cosplayers is another route in which they are doing something that actively harms their hobby.
He has, in the past, reveled in making people miserable for the sake of making them miserable. He encourages his fanbase to troll people. He gloats that his fanbase helped him get banned from online communities by helping him troll people.
He then involves, on multiple occasions and without provocation, Christine Sprankle into the conversation about how cosplay is harming the game. He also, a week before this all went down, posted a picture of her with her name in it in his rant about on social justice issues and Spike, Tournament players being female were ruining the game for everyone because of PC-ness. Note that she didn't involve herself in the discussion, and that she didn't make any big or greater issue about it; she posted a picture of herself dressed as the character Spike, and for some reason Jeremy decided to involve her in his argument, without provocation.
It is pretty damn clear that he has, on multiple occasions, heavily insinuated to his followers that Christine Sprankle is part of the reason why Magic is going downhill now. He has insinuated that she is the real problem they need to focus on. For whatever reason he may have had, that is exactly what he is doing because he didn't have to talk about her at all in this light. This isn't a case of one mention six months ago being blown out of proportion; he has made his view on her very clear over the past year and a half, and he has connected her to his narrative of SJWs killing the game as late as a week before she decided to quit. He also knows full well a lot of his followers are trolls, because he freely admits and delights in it. If you tell a bunch of trolls that this person over here is ruining the game, and that they are terrible, what the hell do you think is going to happen? Jeremy knew full well what was going to happen, because he encouraged them to do this before to other people. He delighted in it, in fact. Jeremy went well above and beyond critique of her for her cosplay; he involved her in his greater anti-SJW narrative about how they were destroying the game, and pointed a mob at her for whatever reason he had. He knew full well that the trolls would hound her, because he acknowledged doing this in the past to other people.
He is being called out on this crap, and being held accountable for encouraging his fanbase to be trolls (As well as direct harassment). At some point, when you are a celebrity, you are held accountable for encouraging such behavior. You have influence over people that regular joes and janes do not. He thinks he is some sort of shock-jock similar to Howard Stern or even Larry Flynt; the fact is, these people were vastly more intelligent about their methods, and knew where the line between shock and harassment was.
i still think we have to make sure female (and male) cosplayers do not downright become live-strippers at Grand Prix events
...
Isnt that a valid point ? (For me it is, and for Jeremy as well)
The concept that cosplay is like live-stripping and that Jeremy was merely expressing his concern for the preservation of the moral of youth playing at GP is...
Oh and before I bow out of this completely, I'd just like to share:
After commenting on this stuff (specifically to counter the hateful statements of victim-blaming individuals) on SCG, my Facebook account was placed under siege for about 24 hours as hundreds of attempts were made to log in by different people in what can only have been a concerted and targeted attack.
Harassment is not ok, but apparently this simple message was so absurd and inciting that multiple people took the time and effort to try and break into my personal accounts for nefarious purposes.
I'm not going to comment on this matter any more, I can't risk my personal safety on attempting to reason with people over this issue.
Thank you still.
I think its important to stay to your arguments.
These kind of people that even attack you, are the core of the problem, the "real" deal to fight against.
The actual topic and comments of Jeremy are no where near that and its a problem that arises from almost any controversial topic and makes discussing it so difficult (as both sides have these random idiots, which are downright dangerous).
If some people are pushed to crimes by some tweets and comments, you have to ask yourself if these people arent just sick in their mind.
i still think we have to make sure female (and male) cosplayers do not downright become live-strippers at Grand Prix events
...
Isnt that a valid point ? (For me it is, and for Jeremy as well)
The concept that cosplay is like live-stripping and that Jeremy was merely expressing his concern for the preservation of the moral of youth playing at GP is...
Evek ifnthis were true, the insinuation that this is what Sprankle was doing is patently absurd if you see the costumes she wears to GPs and the like. It is just armchair philosophizing deflection lacking any real substance. Wgen youvstart to fully accept your own fabrication as reality, particularlg when reality directly contradicts you, you are gonna have a bad
Jeremy has made it a point to argue that Wizards catering to social issues is, in effect, ruining the game. He has made it a point to argue, for instance, that not only was it pointless to make Spike, Tournament Grinder female, but it is actively harming the game because it is pushing social issues on individuals on people who do not want it pushed on them, and it is focusing on things that do not matter. He has equally argued that female cosplayers are more or less predators who at best don't deserve recognition, and at worst are trying to prey on young men who don't know any better. He has made his opinion very clear that Wizards focusing on cosplayers is another route in which they are doing something that actively harms their hobby.
Cosplay is in the end just a reflection of what they impersonate and image.
Its especially easy if you portrait a sexualized image with cosplay that you are indeed just doing that, you sexualize yourself.
If there is a stripper character and you cosplay that, guess what, you portrait yourself as a stripper ; its still cosplay.
So nobody blames people for dressing up as game characters, thats fine.
If its done in a sexualized manner, it will get feedback, either from people that enjoy that, or from people that do not ; and you cannot really blame anyone, especially if the person in question knows about that its controversial and still does it, just to get the feedback they want and blame the others for feedback they dislike.
Again, if you do that in private or as a hobby, its a hole lot different than doing it for money, as a job, getting paid by someone to do that.
This is no issue with her being female at all, it would be the very same if a male did dress up like chest free Jace cosplay and get paid to do so from women (but face it, cosplay has way more females, thats just how it is).
Her being female is just how it is, but thats not the issue at all.
----
He has, in the past, reveled in making people miserable for the sake of making them miserable. He encourages his fanbase to troll people. He gloats that his fanbase helped him get banned from online communities by helping him troll people.
What exactly makes you think he did what he did just to feel people miserable ?
Negative critic will always make some people feel miserable, but only if they cannot stand to take critic.
Theres a lot of people which simply assume everything they do is cool, everyone loves them and they are all about how positive everything is.
But thats not reality. In reality some people might not like what you do and express critic.
They might do so in a rude manner, especially if its a heated or more personal kind of discussion.
It doesnt make the critic any less relevant, people can just choose to ignore it.
And if the context of a discussion is sexualized, the critic will be too, quite likely.
Jeremy doesnt have to carefully choose his words, so nobody can possible be offended.
You can choose to do so (and face it, with enough feedback people will change as they will recognize that being rude wont give you many friends).
If you have a group of 10 guys , bit nerdy talking to each other its a hell lot different than doing so in public.
I talk way different to my parents than i do to my friends.
But i value that i can speak FREE and without thinking about my every word, that is important for me, but i do not go out in the world and insult people on the streets ; thats something you learn by your culture, your friends and it cannot be forced, you have to realize that on your own, by peoples feedback and its a lengthly process.
But the very same is true for everyone, its not a one-sided feedback.
The way you give feedback matters as well.
If someone is rude to you and hit them in the face, thats not really the appropriate response, even if it might satisfy you.
But depending on the situation (and thats while its more complicated) , just arguing and discussing it with them might not be possible too (especially if the person in question is not willing to do so and just keeps poking you with insults, that alone makes this so difficult to deal with).
He then involves, on multiple occasions and without provocation, Christine Sprankle into the conversation about how cosplay is harming the game. He also, a week before this all went down, posted a picture of her with her name in it in his rant about on social justice issues and Spike, Tournament players being female were ruining the game for everyone because of PC-ness. Note that she didn't involve herself in the discussion, and that she didn't make any big or greater issue about it; she posted a picture of herself dressed as the character Spike, and for some reason Jeremy decided to involve her in his argument, without provocation.
I really believe the critic from Jeremy is fine as it is.
Simply because Sprankle is no longer a private person in her cosplay, shes a "professional" actor in that way and so critic is totally valid in that respect, even if its rude.
You do not have to like or even accept the critic to make it valid, you can very well bring arguments against it, and start a discussion , as thats one of the main big parts that Jeremy is trying to do ; start a discussion , even if he starts it in a rude way ; if you react to it just as rude, chances are it gets out of hand , but then you would be just as bad.
It is pretty damn clear that he has, on multiple occasions, heavily insinuated to his followers that Christine Sprankle is part of the reason why Magic is going downhill now. He has insinuated that she is the real problem they need to focus on. For whatever reason he may have had, that is exactly what he is doing because he didn't have to talk about her at all in this light.
Yes he doesnt have to, but he can and thats not an issue, simply because she is a public figure, presents herself and that has an effect, she gets responses and feedback, even if she doesnt like it.
Thats the big difference between a private person and a public figure.
Nobody is directly blaming Sprankle as a person, but that is in conflict with the "job" as a cosplayer which directly puts the body in display, so critic to that body suddenly becomes the same as critic on a job (which makes this topic especially difficult to talk about, as critic on a body or person would be inapropriate if the job would be different).
There is an discussion in the magic community for a long LONG time how the game gets pushed to include more females, more sexualized artwork etc. etc. Thats a good topic to talk about, but chances are it easily slips into someone being insulted, just as any other similiar topic.
Its important to see that Jeremy how rude however the comments might be, isnt the devil incarnate ... Just to keep things on a proper level to not go over the top.
Just as Jeremy somewhat blames Sprankle for way more than she actually represents , Jeremy is blamed for way more than he actually represents ; so its the same coin, just flipped.
This isn't a case of one mention six months ago being blown out of proportion; he has made his view on her very clear over the past year and a half, and he has connected her to his narrative of SJWs killing the game as late as a week before she decided to quit.
Its a terrible problem of feedback loops.
If you let someone talk for months without feedback, guess what, they will continue, they dont suddenly stop.
I wouldnt say Jemerys point is completely wrong. But i absolutely think he is way too rude in how he expressed that arguments (i wouldnt do it that way, but if you, that is absolutely not harassment, its ongoing critic).
He also knows full well a lot of his followers are trolls, because he freely admits and delights in it. If you tell a bunch of trolls that this person over here is ruining the game, and that they are terrible, what the hell do you think is going to happen? Jeremy knew full well what was going to happen, because he encouraged them to do this before to other people. He delighted in it, in fact. Jeremy went well above and beyond critique of her for her cosplay; he involved her in his greater anti-SJW narrative about how they were destroying the game, and pointed a mob at her for whatever reason he had. He knew full well that the trolls would hound her, because he acknowledged doing this in the past to other people.
I wouldnt sign that statements here.
No matter what, troll or not, any adult is responsible for what they do.
And its by no surprise that a lot of people in the internet are trolls. Some are fine, jokes are fine, and its not difficult to go over the top.
I dont even sign that he actively just and only targeted her. He blames a lot of people and a lot of problems and the critic alone isnt hurting, isnt harassing anybody.
What people do with this is the actual crime, yes, if people write death threats, thats a crime and it shouldnt even be necessary to tell somebody that is going way too far.
If some sick individuals are your followers, you are not responsible for what they do. You cannot be.
But i personally still think you have to at least figure out on your own that your comments incite some people and everyone that figures that out will probably change and cool down their rude comments (at least if they get the feedback in a manner that doesnt just incite them to go even harder).
He is being called out on this crap, and being held accountable for encouraging his fanbase to be trolls (As well as direct harassment). At some point, when you are a celebrity, you are held accountable for encouraging such behavior. You have influence over people that regular joes and janes do not. He thinks he is some sort of shock-jock similar to Howard Stern or even Larry Flynt; the fact is, these people were vastly more intelligent about their methods, and knew where the line between shock and harassment was.
Being a troll isnt illegal.
Just to make that clear.
I dont like it, and you dont like it too.
But i still have to accept that there are trolls out there that actively just want to post crap.
And like it or not, for quite a margin that is acceptable, and people have to endure it (as not everything is a crime, and the world isnt perfect either).
If someone expresses themselves in a bad way, you can either assume they downright hate you, or you ask them out.
Its either to assume people are just evil, mostly they just dont know better and the right way is teaching them, feedback is key, punishment might not help and just fuel the fire of the problem and further make discussing difficult if not impossible.
So to sum it up.
If you are a public person and you put yourself into the spotlight, you put yourself up for critic, positive or negative, rude or lovely.
You either collect money from people, or you collect more and more hate from the others ; if what you are doing is controversial , it will do that, you cannot ignore it, jobs that put you in public have this issues and there is no arguing about it, that you need to get a tough skin to not quit out of that jobs if you cant handle it (thats neither good or bad, its just the real world).
If someone learns and accepts over time that they are too rude to people, its a win for everyone, they will better themselves and thats a process of growing up too (so simply said, kids that act like that arent evil, they learn from the feedback, and some adults never learned that lessons, so they have to while being adults, you never stop learning in your life).
But no matter what, focus on whats the issue and make very much sure that its not overblown and overreacted , as thats exactly when rude comments turn into actual crimes, when the barrier of public figures to private affairs is crossed , and thats different for whatever the person is doing.
Public Mod Note
(Wildfire393):
Warning for flaming and trolling - rampant victim-blaming and demeaning of women in general and cosplayers in specific
I hear on CNN of all this sexual assault stuff.
I hear on other news outlets of criminals and stuff.
I hear in sports that some athletes will say objectionable remarks on social media.
I see athletes perform illegal and life threatening hits on other athletes.
Jeremy and the four I mentioned above gets hate, such as "I am embarrassed and ashamed for this guy", or "this guy is a loser."
Unlike the four I mentioned above, they do not get stuff like "die", or people trying to spread the name of his parents to the internet.
Jeremy tweets some stuff about Sprankle. Mass hate mob who wants him gone from this world.
Some famous person who works in a news outlet gropes a bunch of women. Sure he gets fired for it, and people talk about it on the news, but no threatening remarks from the public.
At this point, the hate mob threatening Jeremy is lower than Jeremy himself. We must know that Jeremy's remarks are nothing compared to what is happening in the world around us.
It's not just Jeremy. It happened to people on his side, and the hate mob in support of Jeremy attacking the party on the other side. It's hate mobs and death threats in general in this geek culture that is the problem.
This is why parents tell their kids to go outside. There are worse things in the world, and to the hate mob, Jeremy did the worst imaginable thing in their own sheltered world.
WotC has used Sprankle and other cosplayers at events and included them in disseminated photos/videos online. Fact.
1. Does anyone know if any of them have been paid by WotC? (Or are they just being used after signing away rights to the images)
2. Why is it right for WotC to benefit from these people's work product? (I recall recently seeing Avacyn pics with displays highlighted by WotC) Frankly if their ad team had any chops they'd take on 3-4 of these creative people and do photo ops and videos to generate buzz. Ever been to a boat or car show? COMIC CON?
If someone loses their mind because a pretty girl shows a little skin that's the individual's problem. Ever been to a pool or a beach? Misogyny is a thing, look up the definition.
If your 'critique' of someone uses words like '****' and you direct vitriol at others you are wrong. Mommy didn't teach someone to use nice words.
I don't think Sprankle's Patreon was the right way to earn off her work product but she has every right to do it.
Maturity is lacking on both sides here, the difference is simple to see though. One is on the offensive.
For the sake of brevity, let's imagine there's 4 types of women in the world.
1. Woman who are unaware of Jeremy
2. Woman who don't like him
3. Woman who are indifferent towards him
4. Woman who like him
Yes, there are actually women who like the Jeremies of the world. Though the very concept is unimaginable to society's judicial watch, they nonetheless exist and are neither anomalous nor few. I'd dare say there's billions of them. And not only do they like him/men like him, they love and even lust for him. His jerkyness is a huge attraction and turn-on for these women. They want to be treated "bad" by him. Of course, this fact doesn't justify his continued behavior towards Miss Sprankle, but it does encourage it and (in his mind, if not experience) validate it. How was he supposed to know that she wouldn't be thrilled by his continued beratement of her? After all, the "badboy" persona has gotten men a lot of relational miles over the centuries. Sometimes it takes a while to break down a girl's socially constructed resistance to the seductive charms of caveman-caliber psychological domination.
Public Mod Note
(Wildfire393):
Warning for trolling - the opinion expressed in this post is absurdly demeaning towards women and reeks of victim-blaming.
Cosplay is in the end just a reflection of what they impersonate and image.
Its especially easy if you portrait a sexualized image with cosplay that you are indeed just doing that, you sexualize yourself.
If there is a stripper character and you cosplay that, guess what, you portrait yourself as a stripper ; its still cosplay.
Not of this has anything to do with Christine, whose MTG cosplays are anything but sexualized. THis is just fabricating a "truth" when the reality doesn't fit your narrative. Christine doesn't use overt sexuality to sell her cosplay, at all. None of her promotional material is laying on the sexual layers. She isn't portraying herself as a stripper by making her costumes skimpier and skimpier. This is the exact sort of false narrative that others have been fabricating about her for the sole sake of defending Jeremy. Nevermind that Christine does not do this, or that her MTG cosplay are not sexualized at all. No, no, she is like a stripper because cosplayers are selling their bodies.
So nobody blames people for dressing up as game characters, thats fine.
If its done in a sexualized manner, it will get feedback, either from people that enjoy that, or from people that do not ; and you cannot really blame anyone, especially if the person in question knows about that its controversial and still does it, just to get the feedback they want and blame the others for feedback they dislike.
The thing, again, is that Christine does not. This entire argument is a fabrication. It has nothing to do with Christine, because it is not something she engages in.
Further, she does not complain about criticism as far as I have seen. She complains about a subsection of people whom have sent her death threats, or insultingly lewd and graphic messages. And then people like Jeremy say she is whining because she doesn't want the attention she is getting, completely misrepresenting what is going on. It is utterly valid for her to complain about people sending her death threats, or telling her how they want to shove their dick up her ***, or other such crap. Forgive the language, but that is the reality of the situation when she was complaining about the messages sent.
She is not complaining about people telling her she's hot. She's complaining about the utterly disturbing ***** people send her, and then Jeremy bemoans that she complains about it. Hell, she didn't even bring Jeremy into these discussions at all. Jeremy decided he was going to interject his philosophical nonsense into the discussion by completely misrepresenting what Christine was complaining about. She was complaining about people sending her death threats or sending her messages about how they want to rape her. Not that she was just uncomfortable because young boys had the gall to think she is attractive and tell her so.
Again, if you do that in private or as a hobby, its a hole lot different than doing it for money, as a job, getting paid by someone to do that.
This is no issue with her being female at all, it would be the very same if a male did dress up like chest free Jace cosplay and get paid to do so from women (but face it, cosplay has way more females, thats just how it is).
Her being female is just how it is, but thats not the issue at all.
None of this is the issue at all, and it is a narrative being spun by people trying to sell you their truth. The fact is that Christine does not engage in the sort of behavior that these armchair philosophers talk about, and it is intellectually dishonest to frame the situation like that.
What exactly makes you think he did what he did just to feel people miserable ?
It is the entire reason you troll people. Your exact reasons for doing so do not matter, your politics do not matter. If you troll people, you are doing so to make those on the receiving end miserable.
Negative critic will always make some people feel miserable, but only if they cannot stand to take critic.
Theres a lot of people which simply assume everything they do is cool, everyone loves them and they are all about how positive everything is.
But thats not reality. In reality some people might not like what you do and express critic.
They might do so in a rude manner, especially if its a heated or more personal kind of discussion.
It doesnt make the critic any less relevant, people can just choose to ignore it.
And if the context of a discussion is sexualized, the critic will be too, quite likely.
Jeremy doesnt have to carefully choose his words, so nobody can possible be offended.
You can choose to do so (and face it, with enough feedback people will change as they will recognize that being rude wont give you many friends).
Jeremy goes above and beyond criticism. He points his trolling followers at people, and gloats when they troll them. He actively encourages it.
He posts ***** that has nothing to do with criticizing the person, at all, and instead is solely designed to harass them. Such as this:
THere is no criticism about Christine there, she wasn't the topic he was discussing, and she wasn't discussing him at all. He decided to make a public cheap shot at Christine for no reason, at all, and involved her for no reason, at all, in his rant about Anti-Female-Spikism.
He's not being persecuted for his opinions or offending people. He is being punished for being an ass. Newsflash: If you are an adult who acts like a child, you will be treated like a damn child.
If you have a group of 10 guys , bit nerdy talking to each other its a hell lot different than doing so in public.
I talk way different to my parents than i do to my friends.
But i value that i can speak FREE and without thinking about my every word, that is important for me, but i do not go out in the world and insult people on the streets ; thats something you learn by your culture, your friends and it cannot be forced, you have to realize that on your own, by peoples feedback and its a lengthly process.
None of this, and I mean none of this has anything to do with Jeremy. This is not about off-handedly offending people; this is about him intentionally causing problems for people. There is a world of difference, and framing it as though Jeremy is just speaking his mind and getting punished for off-hand offensive remarks is an absurdly oversimplified version of what he has done.
I really believe the critic from Jeremy is fine as it is.
Simply because Sprankle is no longer a private person in her cosplay, shes a "professional" actor in that way and so critic is totally valid in that respect, even if its rude.
Is not a critique of Sprankle's cosplay. It is involving her in his "SJWs are ruining Magic" narrative, for no damn reason at all as she was not vocally involving herself in it. At all. He does not just engage in "critique", he engages in active harassment of individuals, and posts like this are not critique. There is not critical substance associated with it, at all.
Yes he doesnt have to, but he can and thats not an issue, simply because she is a public figure, presents herself and that has an effect, she gets responses and feedback, even if she doesnt like it.
None of that is the problem that Christine has. The problem Christine has is that she has received death threats, and graphic messages about how people want to rape her. Of course she is going to express disgust at that. That sort of crap is not what any person should reasonably expect.
Thats the big difference between a private person and a public figure.
Nobody is directly blaming Sprankle as a person, but that is in conflict with the "job" as a cosplayer which directly puts the body in display, so critic to that body suddenly becomes the same as critic on a job (which makes this topic especially difficult to talk about, as critic on a body or person would be inapropriate if the job would be different).
I'll reiterate this point again. This is not him critiquing her cosplay:
It is him lumping her into the groups that he has proclaimed are destroying Magic.
There is an discussion in the magic community for a long LONG time how the game gets pushed to include more females, more sexualized artwork etc. etc. Thats a good topic to talk about, but chances are it easily slips into someone being insulted, just as any other similiar topic.
This has nothing to do with Christine's feelings being hurt or just being insulted. That is a false narrative that has been constructed to undersell the situation.
Its important to see that Jeremy how rude however the comments might be, isnt the devil incarnate ... Just to keep things on a proper level to not go over the top.
Just as Jeremy somewhat blames Sprankle for way more than she actually represents , Jeremy is blamed for way more than he actually represents ; so its the same coin, just flipped.
Jeremy is not the devil incarnate. He is an ass, who acts like an ass intentionally to get attention. He whinges and moans when people have a problem with him being an ass, and when his assery goes too far and crosses the line he whinges and moans that he loses his privileges. Sorry, but I am not going to shed a single tear for a whiny brat getting the axe. It's comeuppance, not persecution.
Its a terrible problem of feedback loops.
If you let someone talk for months without feedback, guess what, they will continue, they dont suddenly stop.
I wouldnt say Jemerys point is completely wrong. But i absolutely think he is way too rude in how he expressed that arguments (i wouldnt do it that way, but if you, that is absolutely not harassment, its ongoing critic).
This is not part of his ongoing critique of Christine's cosplay:
That is harassment. You may not think it's the end of the world, but that's just mincing words and trying to explain away his behavior.
I wouldnt sign that statements here.
No matter what, troll or not, any adult is responsible for what they do.
And its by no surprise that a lot of people in the internet are trolls. Some are fine, jokes are fine, and its not difficult to go over the top.
And when you go over the top, you are held accountable. The people who trolled her are accountable. And to a degree, a person who has made active efforts to encourage his fanbase to troll people he disagrees with should also be held accountable.
I dont even sign that he actively just and only targeted her. He blames a lot of people and a lot of problems and the critic alone isnt hurting, isnt harassing anybody.
What people do with this is the actual crime, yes, if people write death threats, thats a crime and it shouldnt even be necessary to tell somebody that is going way too far.
If some sick individuals are your followers, you are not responsible for what they do. You cannot be.
When you actively encourage your followers to be trolling asses, and gloat that they are trolling *****s, and actually try to convince them to troll people, you are partly responsible for them when they act like trolling asses. I highly suggest looking into the Milgrim Effect on this one. While Jeremy can't be held completely accountable for everything they do, you bet your ass that he should be held accountable for encouraging them to engage in this behavior.
Being a troll isnt illegal.
Just to make that clear.
Playing Magic isn't a protected right. It is a privilege. Privileges are afforded to those who follow the rules and act like an adult. If you don't want to follow the rules, that is fine, but don't whinge about persecution when your privileges are revoked. I don't care, and I don't want to hear it. If he wants to be an edgelord, then he can be an edgelord. When Wizards decides to remove his preview cards, and refuses to acknowledge him, and eventual bans him for it, he has nobody to blame but himself. Nobody forced him to be an ass. He chose it.
But i still have to accept that there are trolls out there that actively just want to post crap.
And like it or not, for quite a margin that is acceptable, and people have to endure it (as not everything is a crime, and the world isnt perfect either).
If someone expresses themselves in a bad way, you can either assume they downright hate you, or you ask them out.
Its either to assume people are just evil, mostly they just dont know better and the right way is teaching them, feedback is key, punishment might not help and just fuel the fire of the problem and further make discussing difficult if not impossible.
Jeremy isn't evil. He's a child who doesn't want to face the consequences for throwing tantrums left and right, and getting his school-yard friends to go spit on people and throw rocks at the people he doesn't like. To bad, friendo. You act like a petulant child, you get treated like one.
WotC has used Sprankle and other cosplayers at events and included them in disseminated photos/videos online. Fact.
1. Does anyone know if any of them have been paid by WotC? (Or are they just being used after signing away rights to the images)
She apparently does get paid either WotC for official WotC events and the like, or by the tournament organizer for Grand Prixs if they use her in an official capacity.
2. Why is it right for WotC to benefit from these people's work product? (I recall recently seeing Avacyn pics with displays highlighted by WotC) Frankly if their ad team had any chops they'd take on 3-4 of these creative people and do photo ops and videos to generate buzz. Ever been to a boat or car show? COMIC CON?
I imagine they are independent contractors, however I don't know the details. They do compensate for any official work being done, however.
None of that is the problem that Christine has. The problem Christine has is that she has received death threats, and graphic messages about how people want to rape her. Of course she is going to express disgust at that. That sort of crap is not what any person should reasonably expect.
I'm confused as to why, when I was researching this, the complaints I was finding were about stuff like the gendered insult he made against her (which IMO was pretty cruel and not OK) and people being disgusted by the flip it or rip it game (which IMO is not even in the same stratosphere). It should be more clear that she was receiving death and rape threats because that's a whole different universe than even the gendered insult, let alone the flip it or rip it thing.
This makes it really simple. If you're sending someone death or rape threats, you're a criminal. If you're explicitly encouraging others to do it, you're a criminal. If you're implicitly encouraging others to do it, you're still pretty terrible.
Since TPTB are outlining all of the things this is NOT about: this is NOT about anyone needing to adopt 4th wave feminism or any of the other neo-marxist claptrap that they're going to try to shove down our throats. I say this is about whether we are going to tolerate someone threatening or encouraging others to threaten members of our community. We should also be asking ourselves how we can identify and shut down these situations more rapidly. That's my take, at least.
None of that is the problem that Christine has. The problem Christine has is that she has received death threats, and graphic messages about how people want to rape her. Of course she is going to express disgust at that. That sort of crap is not what any person should reasonably expect.
I'm confused as to why, when I was researching this, the complaints I was finding were about stuff like the gendered insult he made against her (which IMO was pretty cruel and not OK) and people being disgusted by the flip it or rip it game (which IMO is not even in the same stratosphere). It should be more clear that she was receiving death and rape threats because that's a whole different universe than even the gendered insult, let alone the flip it or rip it thing.
This makes it really simple. If you're sending someone death or rape threats, you're a criminal. If you're explicitly encouraging others to do it, you're a criminal. If you're implicitly encouraging others to do it, you're still pretty terrible.
Since TPTB are outlining all of the things this is NOT about: this is NOT about anyone needing to adopt 4th wave feminism or any of the other neo-marxist claptrap that they're going to try to shove down our throats. I say this is about whether we are going to tolerate someone threatening or encouraging others to threaten members of our community. We should also be asking ourselves how we can identify and shut down these situations more rapidly. That's my take, at least.
A lot of these details were lost in the narrative building everyone has been making. Unfortunately she has gone dark on social media so I cannot pull up the examples she shared, and she has been mostly silent thisnweek elsewhere.
To be blunt, I am of the opinion that a lot of people crossed the line, amd that its time for Thanks-suspensioning for a lot of people all over the place. Jeremy is not wrong that he is being hate mobbed; he has received death theeats and the like, and thatbis absolutely not right. That doesnt mean he is at all innocent in the matter, just those that engage in the hate mobbing also now need to be dealt with.
I agree with Blatch, we got rid of the debate forum, why again?
The long and short of it is that not a single person here is saying either party deserved to get death threats. Anyone sending those is not only out of line, but could potentially get in trouble with the law if they were found out. I don't really see anything that Christine did as wrong. Jeremy is an instigator in a lot of situations, and even his "critique" is more of an actual attack, rather than actual constructive criticism. And this was not a single incident that just happened and got blown out of proportion.
As far as how to make the community better, really the only thing that can be done is trying to make sure your table, store, or wherever you play just has the basic courtesy to treat people like people, regardless of how they look or dress. Sometimes, comments can be legitimately made out of ignorance, so try not to immediately jump to a conclusion. Just try to explain why it can be taken as unnecessary and rather than make an enemy, make someone understand the perspective, at least.
Jeremy's most recent video tries to attack Evan Erwin saying he is a morally bankrupt person. Jeremy supposedly has information about his secrets and wishes not to show them publicly.
Jeremy: what does Evan have to do with your case? Even if your claims are true, what does that matter? It doesn't justify harassment.
Feels exactly like when Donald Trump was exposed in the "grab the *****" video and the response Trump did was to deflect to how others are worse off.
Sigh. I'm so sad there are followers that eat up all of Jeremy's rhetoric.
Maybe someone should have told Jeremy of the old saying "Wake not a sleeping lion".
Too late, he did it. The last video he did this morning pretty much blew his only chance at getting what he might have wanted. I don't even know how he is going to keep his channel going now. He was under investigation, saw a ban incoming, and decided to let his feelings get the better of him and post basically an ultimatum demanding wizards act on his own behalf to grant the same treatment he is being given to those that wronged him. What a deplorable way to end this.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Maybe someone should have told Jeremy of the old saying "Wake not a sleeping lion".
Too late, he did it. The last video he did this morning pretty much blew his only chance at getting what he might have wanted. I don't even know how he is going to keep his channel going now. He was under investigation, saw a ban incoming, and decided to let his feelings get the better of him and post basically an ultimatum demanding wizards act on his own behalf to grant the same treatment he is being given to those that wronged him. What a deplorable way to end this.
He became the thing he was against.
Yeah I saw it as well. Its a shame he chose this road. It all reminds me of a quote from Nietzche.
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
Maybe someone should have told Jeremy of the old saying "Wake not a sleeping lion".
Too late, he did it. The last video he did this morning pretty much blew his only chance at getting what he might have wanted. I don't even know how he is going to keep his channel going now. He was under investigation, saw a ban incoming, and decided to let his feelings get the better of him and post basically an ultimatum demanding wizards act on his own behalf to grant the same treatment he is being given to those that wronged him. What a deplorable way to end this.
He became the thing he was against.
Yeah I saw it as well. Its a shame he chose this road. It all reminds me of a quote from Nietzche.
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
To be frank I didn't really want to see him do something like that to himself. He could have been fine if he just let it go.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Maybe someone should have told Jeremy of the old saying "Wake not a sleeping lion".
Too late, he did it. The last video he did this morning pretty much blew his only chance at getting what he might have wanted. I don't even know how he is going to keep his channel going now. He was under investigation, saw a ban incoming, and decided to let his feelings get the better of him and post basically an ultimatum demanding wizards act on his own behalf to grant the same treatment he is being given to those that wronged him. What a deplorable way to end this.
He became the thing he was against.
Yeah I saw it as well. Its a shame he chose this road. It all reminds me of a quote from Nietzche.
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
To be frank I didn't really want to see him do something like that to himself. He could have been fine if he just let it go.
Once you are logged in on YouTube you should see three dots under the video ( ... ), click on it and you can report the video for various things, like it being in violation of your IP, or as is the case with him, harassment/hate speech.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Its debatable if its even good for the game.
The critic is if cosplay goes as far as to be commercial it also comes down to "sex sells" , and at that point it becomes exactly the same deal as models that show themselves in sexualized pictures , that clearly sells ; to weak minded male or not, is another topic on its own, and adults can spend their money as they like, but in the end, how exactly is that part of the game Magic the Gathering ? Do we need it ? Do we even want it ?
If someone earns money selling their body its fine and if someone earns critic for that its sexismn or an insult ?
Come on.
I must say, i dislike it.
I dont think we have to go and forbid cosplay at magic events, but i still think we have to make sure female (and male) cosplayers do not downright become live-strippers at Grand Prix events , even if some might enjoy that, its not the right place. Do that on a website, your youtube channel or whatever form of media you want to, and still someone will critic you for that, positive or negative, which you can either accept or ignore, and if you think its insulting or somewhat hurts you, solve it by communicating.
Isnt that a valid point ? (For me it is, and for Jeremy as well)
And even if you disagree, do not just call it stupid, that doesnt help any argument.
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And for the critic on that.
If someone has a payed job to cosplay, i have every right to critic what they are doing, as i critic the job.
And for someone that sells its own body, the body is somewhat part of the job, so what is an insult to a private person could very well be just critic to a model.
So yes context matters a lot. Sexualized comments are on the very same line than show casting your body in a sexualized manner at live events , posting sexualized pictures and getting "payed" for them by your donator.
I believe these are valid points and ignoring them is as ignorant as just ignoring any other (if you have arguments provide them, but just calling the other opinion stupid isnt helping anybody and just fuels the fire that prevents any further discussion, so it hurts the own argument).
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The basic issue with Jeremy and Sprinkle is downright laughable small.
Its just comments, somebody said something about another and thats it.
If you have a true issue with that, there is plenty of room and options to solve them, without going to public and blaming someone else for your own actions.
That means, if she wants to quit magic cosplay, go ahead, your choice.
Blaming Jeremy for it in public ? That clearly incited hate mobs , so it was a bad move and i really believe she didnt see that comming, even the respons of the Professor i truly believe he simply didnt know that his video would also incite hate mobs further ; he thought it would just express his opinion (which it does) , but as a public person it will not be the right channel to express that ;
*Which leads to another problem that personal issues should be better expressed as a separate channel that is exactly for that, a more private one, that clearly distances itself from "magic" , so stuff doesnt get mixed up ; the very same for this issue here, distancing it from magic would be better, but as it is, stuff gets mixed up and topics are thrown together left and right, suddenly its all about politics, sexismn and what not, while the basic true issue bogs down to a bunch of twitter comments and youtube channels, which is downright laughable in its impact compared to what monster evolved out of this.
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He also has a point that a lot of people cannot even express their true opinion, as they are in a real danger to get caught by the *****-train in public and depend on public opinion for their job and income.
So this further diffuses a public image that is drawn, and countless people just join one mob, they dont even care to have any argument at all, they are happy if at the end someone is bloody and destroyed, thats what they think is a "solution", thats crazy, its chaos and self-justice, anything but reasonable.
Its really easy to just look at videos and people that have a very similiar opinion that you have.
But that doesnt give you any new ideas, it just fuels your illusion that "everyone" has that opinion, which isnt the case.
If you want an open discussion you have to listen to the other side, no matter how stupid they might sound for you.
Then you can bring arguments and find some common ground, or help to solve issues that arise without burning places and people ; it doesnt help any discussion to threaten anybody.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
This debate would necessarily include cosplay. Fine.
However you're suggesting in your comment immediately above that these *genuine* concerns are being shut down.
Not true. This guy targeted people. The "other side" you're referring to is the side which says it's "her fault" or "she knew what she was doing" or "Jeremy did nothing wrong" other such comments I've seen repeated over the last few days.
The issue is harassment. The "other side" is wrong to defend him. Should he in-turn be harassed? No! Harassment is wrong. Should he be flagged for inappropriate or hateful content? Yes! His right to free expression does not extend to using other people's platforms to insult and demean people.
Now, that greater debate about sexualisation, fine, we can have that debate. It's fair, it's important. But it can't devolve into slagging people off or publicly shaming or insulting people, or rabble-rousing. Jeremy took it to this place, and THAT'S what the problem is.
Get that straight. Understand the issue.
Jeremy himself is trying to muddy the waters by misleading people into thinking it's an attack on free speech and it's thought-policing, but this was never the point. The point is it's just not ok to hurt or upset people because of "memes" or whatever. The trolling and edge-lord stuff he subscribes to is not ok, and if there was ever a legitimate point he was trying to make, he made it poorly by making it personal and contorting his arguments into attacks.
Yeah... no.
The narrative that he said one mean thing to her in one video six months ago is the narrative I have dispelled on multiple occasions, and is the narrative that people keep repeating. He made a great many statements about her over the past year and a half, and the last time he did was about a week before this crap went down, dragging her into his argument that Spike, Tournament Grinder being female was a terrible thing, and that this is harming the game. I don't know why he felt the need to drag her into that argument, I have no clue why he had to denigrate her appearance in the process, and I have no clue why he decides to harass her, without provocation, on numerous occasions over several months. But he did.
The simple fact is he has a hate-on for her, and has made it clear publicly. He dresses it up as some greater political issue, and dresses it up as him not saying anything about her ever except once, but that's simply lying at this point.
As for arguments concerning the sexualization of Sprankles cosplay itself, it's utter nonsense. Very few of her costumes are revealing, and if they are, they're accurate to the characters she is portraying (something very important in the cosplay community).
Since she doesn't actually dress "sexy" in the standard sense, is the argument then that she's selling sex simply because she's female? Because we've stumbled on the most base definition of sexism imaginable right there.
This is the kind of logic that Jeremy is using and why, again, the community continues to speak out against it.
After commenting on this stuff (specifically to counter the hateful statements of victim-blaming individuals) on SCG, my Facebook account was placed under siege for about 24 hours as hundreds of attempts were made to log in by different people in what can only have been a concerted and targeted attack.
Harassment is not ok, but apparently this simple message was so absurd and inciting that multiple people took the time and effort to try and break into my personal accounts for nefarious purposes.
I'm not going to comment on this matter any more, I can't risk my personal safety on attempting to reason with people over this issue.
Allow me to frame this in a matter that is a bit more clear:
Jeremy has made it a point to argue that Wizards catering to social issues is, in effect, ruining the game. He has made it a point to argue, for instance, that not only was it pointless to make Spike, Tournament Grinder female, but it is actively harming the game because it is pushing social issues on individuals on people who do not want it pushed on them, and it is focusing on things that do not matter. He has equally argued that female cosplayers are more or less predators who at best don't deserve recognition, and at worst are trying to prey on young men who don't know any better. He has made his opinion very clear that Wizards focusing on cosplayers is another route in which they are doing something that actively harms their hobby.
He has, in the past, reveled in making people miserable for the sake of making them miserable. He encourages his fanbase to troll people. He gloats that his fanbase helped him get banned from online communities by helping him troll people.
He then involves, on multiple occasions and without provocation, Christine Sprankle into the conversation about how cosplay is harming the game. He also, a week before this all went down, posted a picture of her with her name in it in his rant about on social justice issues and Spike, Tournament players being female were ruining the game for everyone because of PC-ness. Note that she didn't involve herself in the discussion, and that she didn't make any big or greater issue about it; she posted a picture of herself dressed as the character Spike, and for some reason Jeremy decided to involve her in his argument, without provocation.
It is pretty damn clear that he has, on multiple occasions, heavily insinuated to his followers that Christine Sprankle is part of the reason why Magic is going downhill now. He has insinuated that she is the real problem they need to focus on. For whatever reason he may have had, that is exactly what he is doing because he didn't have to talk about her at all in this light. This isn't a case of one mention six months ago being blown out of proportion; he has made his view on her very clear over the past year and a half, and he has connected her to his narrative of SJWs killing the game as late as a week before she decided to quit. He also knows full well a lot of his followers are trolls, because he freely admits and delights in it. If you tell a bunch of trolls that this person over here is ruining the game, and that they are terrible, what the hell do you think is going to happen? Jeremy knew full well what was going to happen, because he encouraged them to do this before to other people. He delighted in it, in fact. Jeremy went well above and beyond critique of her for her cosplay; he involved her in his greater anti-SJW narrative about how they were destroying the game, and pointed a mob at her for whatever reason he had. He knew full well that the trolls would hound her, because he acknowledged doing this in the past to other people.
He is being called out on this crap, and being held accountable for encouraging his fanbase to be trolls (As well as direct harassment). At some point, when you are a celebrity, you are held accountable for encouraging such behavior. You have influence over people that regular joes and janes do not. He thinks he is some sort of shock-jock similar to Howard Stern or even Larry Flynt; the fact is, these people were vastly more intelligent about their methods, and knew where the line between shock and harassment was.
The concept that cosplay is like live-stripping and that Jeremy was merely expressing his concern for the preservation of the moral of youth playing at GP is...
Thank you still.
I think its important to stay to your arguments.
These kind of people that even attack you, are the core of the problem, the "real" deal to fight against.
The actual topic and comments of Jeremy are no where near that and its a problem that arises from almost any controversial topic and makes discussing it so difficult (as both sides have these random idiots, which are downright dangerous).
If some people are pushed to crimes by some tweets and comments, you have to ask yourself if these people arent just sick in their mind.
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Sad, but do what is best for you and your safety.
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Evek ifnthis were true, the insinuation that this is what Sprankle was doing is patently absurd if you see the costumes she wears to GPs and the like. It is just armchair philosophizing deflection lacking any real substance. Wgen youvstart to fully accept your own fabrication as reality, particularlg when reality directly contradicts you, you are gonna have a bad
Cosplay is in the end just a reflection of what they impersonate and image.
Its especially easy if you portrait a sexualized image with cosplay that you are indeed just doing that, you sexualize yourself.
If there is a stripper character and you cosplay that, guess what, you portrait yourself as a stripper ; its still cosplay.
So nobody blames people for dressing up as game characters, thats fine.
If its done in a sexualized manner, it will get feedback, either from people that enjoy that, or from people that do not ; and you cannot really blame anyone, especially if the person in question knows about that its controversial and still does it, just to get the feedback they want and blame the others for feedback they dislike.
Again, if you do that in private or as a hobby, its a hole lot different than doing it for money, as a job, getting paid by someone to do that.
This is no issue with her being female at all, it would be the very same if a male did dress up like chest free Jace cosplay and get paid to do so from women (but face it, cosplay has way more females, thats just how it is).
Her being female is just how it is, but thats not the issue at all.
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What exactly makes you think he did what he did just to feel people miserable ?
Negative critic will always make some people feel miserable, but only if they cannot stand to take critic.
Theres a lot of people which simply assume everything they do is cool, everyone loves them and they are all about how positive everything is.
But thats not reality. In reality some people might not like what you do and express critic.
They might do so in a rude manner, especially if its a heated or more personal kind of discussion.
It doesnt make the critic any less relevant, people can just choose to ignore it.
And if the context of a discussion is sexualized, the critic will be too, quite likely.
Jeremy doesnt have to carefully choose his words, so nobody can possible be offended.
You can choose to do so (and face it, with enough feedback people will change as they will recognize that being rude wont give you many friends).
For that topic alone i found this nice article from Brian:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14316&writer=Brian Braun-Duin&articledate=11-30-2017
I think he expresses it fairly well.
If you have a group of 10 guys , bit nerdy talking to each other its a hell lot different than doing so in public.
I talk way different to my parents than i do to my friends.
But i value that i can speak FREE and without thinking about my every word, that is important for me, but i do not go out in the world and insult people on the streets ; thats something you learn by your culture, your friends and it cannot be forced, you have to realize that on your own, by peoples feedback and its a lengthly process.
But the very same is true for everyone, its not a one-sided feedback.
The way you give feedback matters as well.
If someone is rude to you and hit them in the face, thats not really the appropriate response, even if it might satisfy you.
But depending on the situation (and thats while its more complicated) , just arguing and discussing it with them might not be possible too (especially if the person in question is not willing to do so and just keeps poking you with insults, that alone makes this so difficult to deal with).
I really believe the critic from Jeremy is fine as it is.
Simply because Sprankle is no longer a private person in her cosplay, shes a "professional" actor in that way and so critic is totally valid in that respect, even if its rude.
You do not have to like or even accept the critic to make it valid, you can very well bring arguments against it, and start a discussion , as thats one of the main big parts that Jeremy is trying to do ; start a discussion , even if he starts it in a rude way ; if you react to it just as rude, chances are it gets out of hand , but then you would be just as bad.
Yes he doesnt have to, but he can and thats not an issue, simply because she is a public figure, presents herself and that has an effect, she gets responses and feedback, even if she doesnt like it.
Thats the big difference between a private person and a public figure.
Nobody is directly blaming Sprankle as a person, but that is in conflict with the "job" as a cosplayer which directly puts the body in display, so critic to that body suddenly becomes the same as critic on a job (which makes this topic especially difficult to talk about, as critic on a body or person would be inapropriate if the job would be different).
There is an discussion in the magic community for a long LONG time how the game gets pushed to include more females, more sexualized artwork etc. etc. Thats a good topic to talk about, but chances are it easily slips into someone being insulted, just as any other similiar topic.
Its important to see that Jeremy how rude however the comments might be, isnt the devil incarnate ... Just to keep things on a proper level to not go over the top.
Just as Jeremy somewhat blames Sprankle for way more than she actually represents , Jeremy is blamed for way more than he actually represents ; so its the same coin, just flipped.
Its a terrible problem of feedback loops.
If you let someone talk for months without feedback, guess what, they will continue, they dont suddenly stop.
I wouldnt say Jemerys point is completely wrong. But i absolutely think he is way too rude in how he expressed that arguments (i wouldnt do it that way, but if you, that is absolutely not harassment, its ongoing critic).
I wouldnt sign that statements here.
No matter what, troll or not, any adult is responsible for what they do.
And its by no surprise that a lot of people in the internet are trolls. Some are fine, jokes are fine, and its not difficult to go over the top.
I dont even sign that he actively just and only targeted her. He blames a lot of people and a lot of problems and the critic alone isnt hurting, isnt harassing anybody.
What people do with this is the actual crime, yes, if people write death threats, thats a crime and it shouldnt even be necessary to tell somebody that is going way too far.
If some sick individuals are your followers, you are not responsible for what they do. You cannot be.
But i personally still think you have to at least figure out on your own that your comments incite some people and everyone that figures that out will probably change and cool down their rude comments (at least if they get the feedback in a manner that doesnt just incite them to go even harder).
Being a troll isnt illegal.
Just to make that clear.
I dont like it, and you dont like it too.
But i still have to accept that there are trolls out there that actively just want to post crap.
And like it or not, for quite a margin that is acceptable, and people have to endure it (as not everything is a crime, and the world isnt perfect either).
If someone expresses themselves in a bad way, you can either assume they downright hate you, or you ask them out.
Its either to assume people are just evil, mostly they just dont know better and the right way is teaching them, feedback is key, punishment might not help and just fuel the fire of the problem and further make discussing difficult if not impossible.
So to sum it up.
If you are a public person and you put yourself into the spotlight, you put yourself up for critic, positive or negative, rude or lovely.
You either collect money from people, or you collect more and more hate from the others ; if what you are doing is controversial , it will do that, you cannot ignore it, jobs that put you in public have this issues and there is no arguing about it, that you need to get a tough skin to not quit out of that jobs if you cant handle it (thats neither good or bad, its just the real world).
If someone learns and accepts over time that they are too rude to people, its a win for everyone, they will better themselves and thats a process of growing up too (so simply said, kids that act like that arent evil, they learn from the feedback, and some adults never learned that lessons, so they have to while being adults, you never stop learning in your life).
But no matter what, focus on whats the issue and make very much sure that its not overblown and overreacted , as thats exactly when rude comments turn into actual crimes, when the barrier of public figures to private affairs is crossed , and thats different for whatever the person is doing.
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I hear on CNN of all this sexual assault stuff.
I hear on other news outlets of criminals and stuff.
I hear in sports that some athletes will say objectionable remarks on social media.
I see athletes perform illegal and life threatening hits on other athletes.
Jeremy and the four I mentioned above gets hate, such as "I am embarrassed and ashamed for this guy", or "this guy is a loser."
Unlike the four I mentioned above, they do not get stuff like "die", or people trying to spread the name of his parents to the internet.
Jeremy tweets some stuff about Sprankle. Mass hate mob who wants him gone from this world.
Some famous person who works in a news outlet gropes a bunch of women. Sure he gets fired for it, and people talk about it on the news, but no threatening remarks from the public.
At this point, the hate mob threatening Jeremy is lower than Jeremy himself. We must know that Jeremy's remarks are nothing compared to what is happening in the world around us.
It's not just Jeremy. It happened to people on his side, and the hate mob in support of Jeremy attacking the party on the other side. It's hate mobs and death threats in general in this geek culture that is the problem.
This is why parents tell their kids to go outside. There are worse things in the world, and to the hate mob, Jeremy did the worst imaginable thing in their own sheltered world.
1. Does anyone know if any of them have been paid by WotC? (Or are they just being used after signing away rights to the images)
2. Why is it right for WotC to benefit from these people's work product? (I recall recently seeing Avacyn pics with displays highlighted by WotC) Frankly if their ad team had any chops they'd take on 3-4 of these creative people and do photo ops and videos to generate buzz. Ever been to a boat or car show? COMIC CON?
If someone loses their mind because a pretty girl shows a little skin that's the individual's problem. Ever been to a pool or a beach? Misogyny is a thing, look up the definition.
If your 'critique' of someone uses words like '****' and you direct vitriol at others you are wrong. Mommy didn't teach someone to use nice words.
I don't think Sprankle's Patreon was the right way to earn off her work product but she has every right to do it.
Maturity is lacking on both sides here, the difference is simple to see though. One is on the offensive.
1. Woman who are unaware of Jeremy
2. Woman who don't like him
3. Woman who are indifferent towards him
4. Woman who like him
Yes, there are actually women who like the Jeremies of the world. Though the very concept is unimaginable to society's judicial watch, they nonetheless exist and are neither anomalous nor few. I'd dare say there's billions of them. And not only do they like him/men like him, they love and even lust for him. His jerkyness is a huge attraction and turn-on for these women. They want to be treated "bad" by him. Of course, this fact doesn't justify his continued behavior towards Miss Sprankle, but it does encourage it and (in his mind, if not experience) validate it. How was he supposed to know that she wouldn't be thrilled by his continued beratement of her? After all, the "badboy" persona has gotten men a lot of relational miles over the centuries. Sometimes it takes a while to break down a girl's socially constructed resistance to the seductive charms of caveman-caliber psychological domination.
Not of this has anything to do with Christine, whose MTG cosplays are anything but sexualized. THis is just fabricating a "truth" when the reality doesn't fit your narrative. Christine doesn't use overt sexuality to sell her cosplay, at all. None of her promotional material is laying on the sexual layers. She isn't portraying herself as a stripper by making her costumes skimpier and skimpier. This is the exact sort of false narrative that others have been fabricating about her for the sole sake of defending Jeremy. Nevermind that Christine does not do this, or that her MTG cosplay are not sexualized at all. No, no, she is like a stripper because cosplayers are selling their bodies.
The thing, again, is that Christine does not. This entire argument is a fabrication. It has nothing to do with Christine, because it is not something she engages in.
Further, she does not complain about criticism as far as I have seen. She complains about a subsection of people whom have sent her death threats, or insultingly lewd and graphic messages. And then people like Jeremy say she is whining because she doesn't want the attention she is getting, completely misrepresenting what is going on. It is utterly valid for her to complain about people sending her death threats, or telling her how they want to shove their dick up her ***, or other such crap. Forgive the language, but that is the reality of the situation when she was complaining about the messages sent.
She is not complaining about people telling her she's hot. She's complaining about the utterly disturbing ***** people send her, and then Jeremy bemoans that she complains about it. Hell, she didn't even bring Jeremy into these discussions at all. Jeremy decided he was going to interject his philosophical nonsense into the discussion by completely misrepresenting what Christine was complaining about. She was complaining about people sending her death threats or sending her messages about how they want to rape her. Not that she was just uncomfortable because young boys had the gall to think she is attractive and tell her so.
None of this is the issue at all, and it is a narrative being spun by people trying to sell you their truth. The fact is that Christine does not engage in the sort of behavior that these armchair philosophers talk about, and it is intellectually dishonest to frame the situation like that.
It is the entire reason you troll people. Your exact reasons for doing so do not matter, your politics do not matter. If you troll people, you are doing so to make those on the receiving end miserable.
Jeremy goes above and beyond criticism. He points his trolling followers at people, and gloats when they troll them. He actively encourages it.
He posts ***** that has nothing to do with criticizing the person, at all, and instead is solely designed to harass them. Such as this:
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/931189044905742338
THere is no criticism about Christine there, she wasn't the topic he was discussing, and she wasn't discussing him at all. He decided to make a public cheap shot at Christine for no reason, at all, and involved her for no reason, at all, in his rant about Anti-Female-Spikism.
He's not being persecuted for his opinions or offending people. He is being punished for being an ass. Newsflash: If you are an adult who acts like a child, you will be treated like a damn child.
None of this, and I mean none of this has anything to do with Jeremy. This is not about off-handedly offending people; this is about him intentionally causing problems for people. There is a world of difference, and framing it as though Jeremy is just speaking his mind and getting punished for off-hand offensive remarks is an absurdly oversimplified version of what he has done.
Crap like this:
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/931189044905742338
Is not a critique of Sprankle's cosplay. It is involving her in his "SJWs are ruining Magic" narrative, for no damn reason at all as she was not vocally involving herself in it. At all. He does not just engage in "critique", he engages in active harassment of individuals, and posts like this are not critique. There is not critical substance associated with it, at all.
None of that is the problem that Christine has. The problem Christine has is that she has received death threats, and graphic messages about how people want to rape her. Of course she is going to express disgust at that. That sort of crap is not what any person should reasonably expect.
I'll reiterate this point again. This is not him critiquing her cosplay:
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/931189044905742338
It is him lumping her into the groups that he has proclaimed are destroying Magic.
This has nothing to do with Christine's feelings being hurt or just being insulted. That is a false narrative that has been constructed to undersell the situation.
Jeremy is not the devil incarnate. He is an ass, who acts like an ass intentionally to get attention. He whinges and moans when people have a problem with him being an ass, and when his assery goes too far and crosses the line he whinges and moans that he loses his privileges. Sorry, but I am not going to shed a single tear for a whiny brat getting the axe. It's comeuppance, not persecution.
This is not part of his ongoing critique of Christine's cosplay:
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/931189044905742338
That is harassment. You may not think it's the end of the world, but that's just mincing words and trying to explain away his behavior.
And when you go over the top, you are held accountable. The people who trolled her are accountable. And to a degree, a person who has made active efforts to encourage his fanbase to troll people he disagrees with should also be held accountable.
When you actively encourage your followers to be trolling asses, and gloat that they are trolling *****s, and actually try to convince them to troll people, you are partly responsible for them when they act like trolling asses. I highly suggest looking into the Milgrim Effect on this one. While Jeremy can't be held completely accountable for everything they do, you bet your ass that he should be held accountable for encouraging them to engage in this behavior.
Playing Magic isn't a protected right. It is a privilege. Privileges are afforded to those who follow the rules and act like an adult. If you don't want to follow the rules, that is fine, but don't whinge about persecution when your privileges are revoked. I don't care, and I don't want to hear it. If he wants to be an edgelord, then he can be an edgelord. When Wizards decides to remove his preview cards, and refuses to acknowledge him, and eventual bans him for it, he has nobody to blame but himself. Nobody forced him to be an ass. He chose it.
Jeremy isn't evil. He's a child who doesn't want to face the consequences for throwing tantrums left and right, and getting his school-yard friends to go spit on people and throw rocks at the people he doesn't like. To bad, friendo. You act like a petulant child, you get treated like one.
She apparently does get paid either WotC for official WotC events and the like, or by the tournament organizer for Grand Prixs if they use her in an official capacity.
I imagine they are independent contractors, however I don't know the details. They do compensate for any official work being done, however.
I'm confused as to why, when I was researching this, the complaints I was finding were about stuff like the gendered insult he made against her (which IMO was pretty cruel and not OK) and people being disgusted by the flip it or rip it game (which IMO is not even in the same stratosphere). It should be more clear that she was receiving death and rape threats because that's a whole different universe than even the gendered insult, let alone the flip it or rip it thing.
This makes it really simple. If you're sending someone death or rape threats, you're a criminal. If you're explicitly encouraging others to do it, you're a criminal. If you're implicitly encouraging others to do it, you're still pretty terrible.
Since TPTB are outlining all of the things this is NOT about: this is NOT about anyone needing to adopt 4th wave feminism or any of the other neo-marxist claptrap that they're going to try to shove down our throats. I say this is about whether we are going to tolerate someone threatening or encouraging others to threaten members of our community. We should also be asking ourselves how we can identify and shut down these situations more rapidly. That's my take, at least.
A lot of these details were lost in the narrative building everyone has been making. Unfortunately she has gone dark on social media so I cannot pull up the examples she shared, and she has been mostly silent thisnweek elsewhere.
To be blunt, I am of the opinion that a lot of people crossed the line, amd that its time for Thanks-suspensioning for a lot of people all over the place. Jeremy is not wrong that he is being hate mobbed; he has received death theeats and the like, and thatbis absolutely not right. That doesnt mean he is at all innocent in the matter, just those that engage in the hate mobbing also now need to be dealt with.
The long and short of it is that not a single person here is saying either party deserved to get death threats. Anyone sending those is not only out of line, but could potentially get in trouble with the law if they were found out. I don't really see anything that Christine did as wrong. Jeremy is an instigator in a lot of situations, and even his "critique" is more of an actual attack, rather than actual constructive criticism. And this was not a single incident that just happened and got blown out of proportion.
As far as how to make the community better, really the only thing that can be done is trying to make sure your table, store, or wherever you play just has the basic courtesy to treat people like people, regardless of how they look or dress. Sometimes, comments can be legitimately made out of ignorance, so try not to immediately jump to a conclusion. Just try to explain why it can be taken as unnecessary and rather than make an enemy, make someone understand the perspective, at least.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Jeremy: what does Evan have to do with your case? Even if your claims are true, what does that matter? It doesn't justify harassment.
Feels exactly like when Donald Trump was exposed in the "grab the *****" video and the response Trump did was to deflect to how others are worse off.
Sigh. I'm so sad there are followers that eat up all of Jeremy's rhetoric.
Too late, he did it. The last video he did this morning pretty much blew his only chance at getting what he might have wanted. I don't even know how he is going to keep his channel going now. He was under investigation, saw a ban incoming, and decided to let his feelings get the better of him and post basically an ultimatum demanding wizards act on his own behalf to grant the same treatment he is being given to those that wronged him. What a deplorable way to end this.
He became the thing he was against.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To be frank I didn't really want to see him do something like that to himself. He could have been fine if he just let it go.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To be fair, with comments like this tweet: https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/935731825242247168 (Warning: harsh language), he really wasn't going to go any other way.
He made his bed and now he's refusing to get out of it.