This is your very own opinion and you have a very limited view of the topic, as do i, everyone is somehow putting stuff up and search pieces and bits of information and present it as "proof" for whatever message they want to squeeze out of this information.
This all gets down to politics, down to sexismn, down to everything but the topic its actually is.
Nobody ever ask anyone to harass anybody and nobody ever wanted any harm for any member of the community in these channels.
Its downright not the case, and who ever thinks theres this big great evil out there posting twitter comments and youtube channel comments, thats downright ridiculous and does in no way tribute to what "real" harassment should be threated.
Theres no arguing that anybody that emails death threats and THAT kind of messages out is downright "sick" , nobody that is sane or has a healthy mind will do that, point , nobody
But these people are everywhere, they watch all kinds of stuff , read all kinds of twitter messages and they just want to please their sadistic pleasures , nobody but them is responsible for that , they can either do that ***** or they do not.
A real adult way to solve these issues would be to seek out discussion and talk with the people like they are adults.
If something bothers you, the first way should be to talk about it, make sure the other knows about it and can recognize it.
If you do not give that chance, and month later just finger point and blame them for a choice you make, thats cheap and its not fair at all.
Woo boy that's a lot to unpack. Alright, let's start with the nature of black and white: one in which there is an objective good and an objective evil. In this instance there is neither because both sides have very clear faults. I may ultimately agree with those that find Jeremy's action have a poor influence on our subculture, as this kerfuffle is pretty clearly evidence of that on its own, but harassment isn't okay regardless of the side it's coming from. That hits your second point as well, I do believe that one side (or the followers of that side) are more clearly instigators, but instigation does not make a problem on its own.
Your denial of proof is no better than the others, context isn't everything; words themselves matter, and the inciting words here are exceptionally upsetting (for the target certainly, and for others of an emotional mindset), which rounds out to your primary point here.
What you want out of hte argument, and your purported "adult" perspective is one that similarly perpetuates these problems. Logic is fine, logic dictates a lot of decisions (rightly so!), but to deny emotion is itself an immense problem and one which the "logical," "proof seeking" crowd ignores. We don't live our lives as machines, and decisions both online and in person are dictated as much (at times more) by emotion, and this whole thing is driven more by emotion than logic. The harm its doing to the community is illogical because of this- it's driven by purely subjective, emotive response, and people are trying to find a way to accept that and meld it into a masculine, logic-driven perspective. That doesn't work here and make sit nearly impossible to see all sides.
You can hate somebody for their views/speech/actions, but you CANNOT act on that hate in a vigilante matter. There are proper avenues to follow, and when you choose not to and act on those impulses, you are no different than the person you are acting out against.
Ultimately, this is not a matter the public needs to be involved in or needs to solve.
The problem here is that the "opposing" side is already very active in their harmful behavior. At a certain point inaction becomes unacceptable, allowing hugely negative groups and individuals (see: Jeremy) to have a truly untoward effect on how our subculture is perceived. To the outside we're already a masculine dominated, often-aggressive, and socially awkward bundle of "nerds." Adding this kind of hateful behavior to what we're known for isn't something that the community should allow, nonsensical hyperbole examples entirely aside.
So it’s ok to send this guy Jeremy death threats, then? Because he’s a an A-Hole of the highest caliber, he deserves to be hounded by death threats? I guess he can’t hurt anybody’s feeling if he’s dead.
Eye for an Eye? That is what this thread, the mods, this site, is effectively endorsing, and it’s disgusting.
I assume you are all sitting at home in your Batman costumes waiting for commissioner Gordon to light the lamp on the bat signal to enact your “social justice” on the bad people of this world.
I get there is a lot of hyperbole in this particular post, but this is just nuts at this point. It’s like a compilation of recent South Park episodes, playing out in real life. Rabble, rabble, rabble....
You can hate somebody for their views/speech/actions, but you CANNOT act on that hate in a vigilante matter. There are proper avenues to follow, and when you choose not to and act on those impulses, you are no different than the person you are acting out against.
Ultimately, this is not a matter the public needs to be involved in or needs to solve.
The problem here is that the "opposing" side is already very active in their harmful behavior. At a certain point inaction becomes unacceptable, allowing hugely negative groups and individuals (see: Jeremy) to have a truly untoward effect on how our subculture is perceived. To the outside we're already a masculine dominated, often-aggressive, and socially awkward bundle of "nerds." Adding this kind of hateful behavior to what we're known for isn't something that the community should allow, nonsensical hyperbole examples entirely aside.
So it’s ok to send this guy Jeremy death threats, then? Because he’s a an A-Hole of the highest caliber, he deserves to be hounded by death threats? I guess he can’t hurt anybody’s feeling if he’s dead.
Eye for an Eye? That is what this thread, the mods, this site, is effectively endorsing, and it’s disgusting.
I assume you are all sitting at home in your Batman costumes waiting for commissioner Gordon to light the lamp on the bat signal to enact your “social justice” on the bad people of this world.
I get there is a lot of hyperbole in this particular post, but this is just nuts at this point. It’s like a compilation of recent South Park episodes, playing out in real life. Rabble, rabble, rabble....
It is not okay for Jeremy to get death threats. Jeremy getting death threats, however, does not mean his is innocent of wrong doing. The people sending him death threats should be held accountable. Including DCI bans, if they play magic.
That said, Jeremy deserves all of the generalizated hate he is getting (As in, people hating on him in general, not death threats and the like). He is not hated or disliked because of his politics. He is hated and disliked for intentionally making people miserable. He revels in being and edgelord. He is an ass because he wants to be. You have a right to be an ass, but there are repercussions, social and otherwise, for it. He bemoans the fact that Wizards doesn't acknowledge him, and has done so for years; hell, that's where a lot of his disdain for other content creators comes from, to be blunt. He feels it is a great wrong done to him that he can't get a preview card, or can't get officially listed on Wizard's site, or what-have-you. Some of his most fervent fans fully admit this, unwittingly, by saying idiotic things such as "If only Wizards hadn't taken his previews away, or let him in the community cup, he would be different! He only went off the deep end after that!"
The simple fact is, he wants all of the freedom to act like an ass with all of the privileges that come with following the rules. That's not how life works. Wizards is not going to reward someone for being an intentional ass. Nobody is, or should. If he doesn't want to act like an adult, he doesn't get the privileges afforded to those who do. Color me completely unimpressed with people defending a grown man acting like a complete child. He has been throwing a years-long tantrum over the fact that Wizards took his toys away for not playing by their rules, and he has a personal vendetta against those who have a working relationship with them.
So it’s ok to send this guy Jeremy death threats, then? Because he’s a an A-Hole of the highest caliber, he deserves to be hounded by death threats? I guess he can’t hurt anybody’s feeling if he’s dead.
Eye for an Eye? That is what this thread, the mods, this site, is effectively endorsing, and it’s disgusting.
I assume you are all sitting at home in your Batman costumes waiting for commissioner Gordon to light the lamp on the bat signal to enact your “social justice” on the bad people of this world.
I get there is a lot of hyperbole in this particular post, but this is just nuts at this point. It’s like a compilation of recent South Park episodes, playing out in real life. Rabble, rabble, rabble....
Well, at least you recognize the hyperbole. Not sure what it's aimed at with that in mind, but no death threats are again unacceptable for all sides. I don't believe that this thread is endorsing it, though the editorial and the mods havn't recognized that there are apparently death threats from both sides, we the posters have.
No one deserves that kind of gross feedback, but the point is that there is a clear ground zero in Jeremy's content. He doesn't deserve death threats, but neither should he have so great a voice in the community. The good news is that WOTC and a large chunk of the community are fighting back in less horrible ways than death threats and doxxing, by voicing the displeasure with such negativity and (hopefully) having a positive impact as a whole.
You can hate somebody for their views/speech/actions, but you CANNOT act on that hate in a vigilante matter. There are proper avenues to follow, and when you choose not to and act on those impulses, you are no different than the person you are acting out against.
Ultimately, this is not a matter the public needs to be involved in or needs to solve.
The problem here is that the "opposing" side is already very active in their harmful behavior. At a certain point inaction becomes unacceptable, allowing hugely negative groups and individuals (see: Jeremy) to have a truly untoward effect on how our subculture is perceived. To the outside we're already a masculine dominated, often-aggressive, and socially awkward bundle of "nerds." Adding this kind of hateful behavior to what we're known for isn't something that the community should allow, nonsensical hyperbole examples entirely aside.
Your use of the word "harmful" to justify your censorship is actually..harmful. I believe the most harmful thing in Magic is to force people to police themselves to suit your emotions. I believe the language of "we can strive to be better" means "we should suppress disagreement and be more like me." I think your worldview is one of censorship, and I also believe that there are many greater ills on the planet than "harmful actions" of Magic players and conservatives. Like socialism, and ISIS.
Aren't we supposed to be trying not to bring politics into this discussion?
No, you see, it's only bringing politics in to the discussion when we're talking about things that I don't like and can't easily argue against.
Okaaay. Forget I said anything.
Everyone, as far as I can tell, has a darker side to them. Topics like this have a tendency to expose that to a degree, regardless of which side you take with this.
People need to relax and just play magic. The issue with desolatormagic and this Jeremy guy is they don't even PLAY magic. I watch their videos and they just rant about liberals/politics and pretend its an MTG channel.
If you want to grow the game keep the politics out of this and just play. Of course WOTC is going to target the smaller female demo to increase the size of the game. Thats just good business.
His early videos were all about Magic. How times have changed.
People will rant about things they do not like the direction the game is going in. I could rant about how WOTC basically threw away the one thing I loved about the game. Theme decks. They changed them to intro packs, then to 2 instead of 4 per set planeswalker decks.
People need to relax and just play magic. The issue with desolatormagic and this Jeremy guy is they don't even PLAY magic. I watch their videos and they just rant about liberals/politics and pretend its an MTG channel.
If you want to grow the game keep the politics out of this and just play. Of course WOTC is going to target the smaller female demo to increase the size of the game. Thats just good business.
His early videos were all about Magic.
Were they about playing Magic though? I haven't seen his early videos, so I don't know.
I think I remember DesolatorMagic mentioning playing the game somewhere in his past rants about netdecks.
People need to relax and just play magic. The issue with desolatormagic and this Jeremy guy is they don't even PLAY magic. I watch their videos and they just rant about liberals/politics and pretend its an MTG channel.
If you want to grow the game keep the politics out of this and just play. Of course WOTC is going to target the smaller female demo to increase the size of the game. Thats just good business.
His early videos were all about Magic.
Were they about playing Magic though? I haven't seen his early videos, so I don't know.
I think I remember DesolatorMagic mentioning playing the game somewhere in his past rants about netdecks.
He has videos where he shows himself driving himself to the LGS and doing prerelease. I know, because I watched his videos before all the politics started to pop up, and then I stopped watching because of the politics, and I started getting bored of watching pack opening videos, not like pack videos are boring, it's just that I have watched too may MTG pack opening videos from MTGHeadquarters, Pokemon pack openings from PrimetimePokemon, and Yugioh pack openings from CyberKnight8610 and SimplyUnlucky.
Not only Jeremy, but also Wedge. I used to watch his videos way back during Innistrad block, but not anymore. The current professor videos are alright, but in the early days, I didn't like how he reviews products as if there was only one type of person playing the game, and how everyone isn't buying product to play and have fun, but to make money out of it.
I also do not subscribe to anyone's channel. I type in their channel on my address bar and go directly there. I do not want my e-mail spammed with new videos from the channels I subscribe to.
Both Desolator and Jeremy play magic. Jeremy is a limited / draft player, Desolator is more standard constructed and runs budget decks. Yeah, Desolator didn't play as much as he usually does, but given the standard we were and are still in can you honestly blame him? If someone is tired of energy and Kaladesh in general, this ain't a happy standard.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So has anyone addressed the concern about cos players behaving in a predatory manner to young men financially?
Because Im skimming through all of the responses and they seem to focus on harassment but not refuting that point.
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
So has anyone addressed the concern about cos players behaving in a predatory manner to young men financially?
Because Im skimming through all of the responses and they seem to focus on harassment but not refuting that point.
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
So has anyone addressed the concern about cos players behaving in a predatory manner to young men financially?
Because Im skimming through all of the responses and they seem to focus on harassment but not refuting that point.
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
Yes, it is a tinfoil hat conspiracy. My god, this has seriously gone off the rails...
Not sure if to start a new thread, but Jeremy goes on a rant on blah blah blah, why are you focusing on representation in the game blah blah blah.
If I were in his spot, I would say that real life representation in the game, such as, equal representation of girls to guys in tournaments, is impossible because of the nature of the game. Look at tournaments. It is always people sitting across each other, like a 1 vs 1 game, right? What do girls like? Social games. Multiplayer games. Games where you interact with one another, like Catan, and a multitude of board games out there. It's the fact that this game does not require teamwork skill is why they attract those "alone" type of people. Those who can't talk to people.
If there is even one female in a tournament it is good enough. You do not have to have 1:1 ratio of females to males at a LGS. Girls can just as easily enjoy the game at home, and that is already good enough.
Look at video games. Why do men outnumber women in video games? Video games are played by one person. Even if you are playing an online multiplayer game, the face to face eye contact social aspect of the game is missing.
Girls are like, "Let me help you.", and they work together.
Guys go, "Give me that, let me show you how it's done", and grabs what you are holding and attempts to do the job himself.
So has anyone addressed the concern about cos players behaving in a predatory manner to young men financially?
Because Im skimming through all of the responses and they seem to focus on harassment but not refuting that point.
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
Yes. It's beyond stupid. It makes false assumptions about all parties involved. Did I also mention how generally moronic the whole notion is? Because if I didn't, it displays a level of idiocy so monumental that I may tell my grandkids about it one day.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
So has anyone addressed the concern about cos players behaving in a predatory manner to young men financially?
Because Im skimming through all of the responses and they seem to focus on harassment but not refuting that point.
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
Yes, it is a tinfoil hat conspiracy. My god, this has seriously gone off the rails...
I find it almost impossible that someone can be that unaware of how marketing works.Like did you never hear of the term fan service?
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
I'll be customarily blunt about this: That ***** doesn't happen.
It's just scaremongering meant to help people feel bad about alienating others. Sure, some cosplayers may be in it for the money, but their intentions aren't this kind of predatory "lead men on and victimize them out of their money" gubbins. At worst, it's just business.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
I'll be customarily blunt about this: That ***** doesn't happen.
It's just scaremongering meant to help people feel bad about alienating others. Sure, some cosplayers may be in it for the money, but their intentions aren't this kind of predatory "lead men on and victimize them out of their money" gubbins.
What makes you so sure of the moral clarity of a group of people?
So has anyone addressed the concern about cos players behaving in a predatory manner to young men financially?
Because Im skimming through all of the responses and they seem to focus on harassment but not refuting that point.
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
Yes, it is a tinfoil hat conspiracy. My god, this has seriously gone off the rails...
I find it almost impossible that someone can be that unaware of how marketing works.Like did you never hear of the term fan service?
While true, it is an unbased claim as to her intentions, and is utterly insulting to her fanbase as a whole, and intelligence of any reasonable person, including you. He is playing you for an idiot by making this claim, because it requires you to simply accept his statement as the gospel truth on her intentions without providing a shred of reason to believe its true.
While "sex sells" is a thing, you would have to be willfully obtuse if you think that people are slavishly swayed by sexuality in such a way. It also speaks nothing to the heterosexual women whom financially support her, the adults and friends whom financially support her, and plenty of other people who just enjoy the cosplay scene. He is relying on you to simply accept it as the case that she is a predator preying on stupid male teenagers who can't think beyond their genitals. Let that bloody well sink in.
Further, it has nothing at all to do with the conversation, because it has nothing at all to do with why Christine quit. She quit because of harassment she received from playing Flip It or Rip it, which included death threats and the like for daring to destroy Magic cards. She received incredibly lewd comments that well above and beyond simple comments on her appearance.
To bring up this utterly silly notion that Cosplayers are predators preying on young boys who can't control their sexual desires plays right into the same falatious thinking that Jeremy and his ilk accuse SJWs of doing. It is present Young Males as being incapable of controlling their sexuality, and being easily manipulated due to their stupidity and base inability to control their sexual desires, and need to offload sexual aggression.
What you are doing is falling for his diversion tactics. He very clearly knows he's an ass who doesn't have a leg to stand on, at all, and very likely will be facing repercussions for being an ass. Rather than admit culpability in the situation, however, he is pointed you down a road of where the REAL problem is. Don't bother looking at the fact that he is a self-admitted ass who insults people on the daily unapologetically, whose beef with Christine stems from personal issues involving their shared history, and that he has over the last few years made unprovoked attacks against her because of said personal issues (Including days before she decided to quit, when he made an unprovoked attack on her on twitter). No, you have to go look at the REAL problem of Women being Sexual Predators for preying on stupid young men who can't control their sexuality.
If you believe he is at all concerned with this junk, you have been played hard by somebody who is a self-absorbed ass who is doing everything in his power to deflect you from seeing the actual reasons for why he has been blacklisted.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
I'll be customarily blunt about this: That ***** doesn't happen.
It's just scaremongering meant to help people feel bad about alienating others. Sure, some cosplayers may be in it for the money, but their intentions aren't this kind of predatory "lead men on and victimize them out of their money" gubbins.
What makes you so sure of the moral clarity of a group of people?
Since you're determined to be obtuse and ridiculous, do a Google image search for Christine Sprankle. What you'll see is a cosplayer who clearly strives for accuracy. What's the most titillating image you find? You'll probably zero in on depictions of Liliana and maybe Nissa, while clearly ignoring Elspeth, Avacyn, Teysa, April O'Neill, Princess Peach, and any number of sensibly clothed characters. Your assessment of Ms. Sprankle is wrong, as is your view of Magic players as romantically awkward neckbeards. So you see her belly sometimes? Big ******* deal.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
At the core of it Jeremy is critically flawed in his thinking regarding choice of outfit of cosplayers and it's likely a result of the sub-culture he is a part of. When I see a cosplayer in a skimpy outfit I'm mostly being reminded of my fine arts class when we were dealing with drawing nude models. It's not about the sex (well, the original character was probably about the sex appeal), but rather creating a faithful recreation of the character in real life. Jeremy might as well be complaining about every single Felicia, Morigan Aesland, Bayonetta, Mai Shiranui, etc cosplayer. If he wants to be against gaming companies like EA putting runway models up at E3 or something to draw more viewership I'm fine with that, but that isn't his angle.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
Yes, it is a tinfoil hat conspiracy. My god, this has seriously gone off the rails...
I find it almost impossible that someone can be that unaware of how marketing works.Like did you never hear of the term fan service?
While true, it is an unbased claim as to her intentions, and is utterly insulting to her fanbase as a whole, and intelligence of any reasonable person, including you. He is playing you for an idiot by making this claim, because it requires you to simply accept his statement as the gospel truth on her intentions without providing a shred of reason to believe its true.
While "sex sells" is a thing, you would have to be willfully obtuse if you think that people are slavishly swayed by sexuality in such a way. It also speaks nothing to the heterosexual women whom financially support her, the adults and friends whom financially support her, and plenty of other people who just enjoy the cosplay scene. He is relying on you to simply accept it as the case that she is a predator preying on stupid male teenagers who can't think beyond their genitals. Let that bloody well sink in.
Further, it has nothing at all to do with the conversation, because it has nothing at all to do with why Christine quit. She quit because of harassment she received from playing Flip It or Rip it, which included death threats and the like for daring to destroy Magic cards. She received incredibly lewd comments that well above and beyond simple comments on her appearance.
To bring up this utterly silly notion that Cosplayers are predators preying on young boys who can't control their sexual desires plays right into the same falatious thinking that Jeremy and his ilk accuse SJWs of doing. It is present Young Males as being incapable of controlling their sexuality, and being easily manipulated due to their stupidity and base inability to control their sexual desires, and need to offload sexual aggression.
What you are doing is falling for his diversion tactics. He very clearly knows he's an ass who doesn't have a leg to stand on, at all, and very likely will be facing repercussions for being an ass. Rather than admit culpability in the situation, however, he is pointed you down a road of where the REAL problem is. Don't bother looking at the fact that he is a self-admitted ass who insults people on the daily, whose beef with Christine stems from personal issues involving their shared history, and that he has over the last few years made unprovoked attacks against her because of said personal issues. No, you have to go look at the REAL problem of Women being Sexual Predators for preying on stupid young men who can't control their sexuality.
As far as rip it or flip it, i didnt even know that was a thing until yesterday and I guess I always knew people get mad about people ripping up magic cards but I never got it.
Ok I read up on this. I only have one comment on the matter.
Citation needed. I’m not taking the listen and believe bull*****. Unless this girl has some proof this Jeremy dork harassed her then she’s full of *****. Also dude can’t be held responsible for the actions of others.
Ps critique isn’t harassment.
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**** this site. I'd delete this account but that doesn't seem to be an option. The mods here are ******* useless ********s who ban people for simple ass normal words. **** them and **** this site.
At the core of it Jeremy is critically flawed in his thinking regarding choice of outfit of cosplayers and it's likely a result of the sub-culture he is a part of. When I see a cosplayer in a skimpy outfit I'm mostly being reminded of my fine arts class when we were dealing with drawing nude models. It's not about the sex (well, the original character was probably about the sex appeal), but rather creating a faithful recreation of the character in real life. Jeremy might as well be complaining about every single Felicia, Morigan Aesland, Bayonetta, Mai Shiranui, etc cosplayer. If he wants to be against gaming companies like EA putting runway models up at E3 or something to draw more viewership I'm fine with that, but that isn't his angle.
Look, Sex Sells is a thing. It's all over the place. People like to look at other people they find sexually attractice, and yes occasionally have sexual fantasies about others. This is all normal human behavior, regardless of who you are.
To imply, however, that Young Males are slavishly devoted to this, and are unwittingly being preyed upon by predatory Cosplayers, is asinine. Not only is it patently absurd and reinforces the concept of males (particularly male gamers) being idiot sex obsessed neckbeards, it is utterly unfair as you said in this case. Very little of what Sprankle has could even remotely be interpretted as overtly sexual in nature; her promotional material is hardly what I would call sexual in nature. I highly doubt, further, that the people sending overly graphic lewd messages are her actual supporters, and are likely idiot trolls being idiots for the lulz.
I have yet to see Sprankle ever criticize a single person for saying she was attractive or what not; the only comment I have seen is her criticize a truly gross messages that was obviously meant to make her uncomfortable, likely by a troll.
Ok I read up on this. I only have one comment on the matter.
Citation needed. I’m not taking the listen and believe bull*****. Unless this girl has some proof this Jeremy dork harassed her then she’s full of *****. Also dude can’t be held responsible for the actions of others.
Ps critique isn’t harassment.
Yes, because this is "critique", and not intentional denigration of her (by name, no less!), and involving her in his Anti-Female-Spike crusade for no damn reason at all:
Woo boy that's a lot to unpack. Alright, let's start with the nature of black and white: one in which there is an objective good and an objective evil. In this instance there is neither because both sides have very clear faults. I may ultimately agree with those that find Jeremy's action have a poor influence on our subculture, as this kerfuffle is pretty clearly evidence of that on its own, but harassment isn't okay regardless of the side it's coming from. That hits your second point as well, I do believe that one side (or the followers of that side) are more clearly instigators, but instigation does not make a problem on its own.
Your denial of proof is no better than the others, context isn't everything; words themselves matter, and the inciting words here are exceptionally upsetting (for the target certainly, and for others of an emotional mindset), which rounds out to your primary point here.
What you want out of hte argument, and your purported "adult" perspective is one that similarly perpetuates these problems. Logic is fine, logic dictates a lot of decisions (rightly so!), but to deny emotion is itself an immense problem and one which the "logical," "proof seeking" crowd ignores. We don't live our lives as machines, and decisions both online and in person are dictated as much (at times more) by emotion, and this whole thing is driven more by emotion than logic. The harm its doing to the community is illogical because of this- it's driven by purely subjective, emotive response, and people are trying to find a way to accept that and meld it into a masculine, logic-driven perspective. That doesn't work here and make sit nearly impossible to see all sides.
So it’s ok to send this guy Jeremy death threats, then? Because he’s a an A-Hole of the highest caliber, he deserves to be hounded by death threats? I guess he can’t hurt anybody’s feeling if he’s dead.
Eye for an Eye? That is what this thread, the mods, this site, is effectively endorsing, and it’s disgusting.
I assume you are all sitting at home in your Batman costumes waiting for commissioner Gordon to light the lamp on the bat signal to enact your “social justice” on the bad people of this world.
I get there is a lot of hyperbole in this particular post, but this is just nuts at this point. It’s like a compilation of recent South Park episodes, playing out in real life. Rabble, rabble, rabble....
It is not okay for Jeremy to get death threats. Jeremy getting death threats, however, does not mean his is innocent of wrong doing. The people sending him death threats should be held accountable. Including DCI bans, if they play magic.
That said, Jeremy deserves all of the generalizated hate he is getting (As in, people hating on him in general, not death threats and the like). He is not hated or disliked because of his politics. He is hated and disliked for intentionally making people miserable. He revels in being and edgelord. He is an ass because he wants to be. You have a right to be an ass, but there are repercussions, social and otherwise, for it. He bemoans the fact that Wizards doesn't acknowledge him, and has done so for years; hell, that's where a lot of his disdain for other content creators comes from, to be blunt. He feels it is a great wrong done to him that he can't get a preview card, or can't get officially listed on Wizard's site, or what-have-you. Some of his most fervent fans fully admit this, unwittingly, by saying idiotic things such as "If only Wizards hadn't taken his previews away, or let him in the community cup, he would be different! He only went off the deep end after that!"
The simple fact is, he wants all of the freedom to act like an ass with all of the privileges that come with following the rules. That's not how life works. Wizards is not going to reward someone for being an intentional ass. Nobody is, or should. If he doesn't want to act like an adult, he doesn't get the privileges afforded to those who do. Color me completely unimpressed with people defending a grown man acting like a complete child. He has been throwing a years-long tantrum over the fact that Wizards took his toys away for not playing by their rules, and he has a personal vendetta against those who have a working relationship with them.
Well, at least you recognize the hyperbole. Not sure what it's aimed at with that in mind, but no death threats are again unacceptable for all sides. I don't believe that this thread is endorsing it, though the editorial and the mods havn't recognized that there are apparently death threats from both sides, we the posters have.
No one deserves that kind of gross feedback, but the point is that there is a clear ground zero in Jeremy's content. He doesn't deserve death threats, but neither should he have so great a voice in the community. The good news is that WOTC and a large chunk of the community are fighting back in less horrible ways than death threats and doxxing, by voicing the displeasure with such negativity and (hopefully) having a positive impact as a whole.
Okaaay. Forget I said anything.
Everyone, as far as I can tell, has a darker side to them. Topics like this have a tendency to expose that to a degree, regardless of which side you take with this.
His early videos were all about Magic. How times have changed.
People will rant about things they do not like the direction the game is going in. I could rant about how WOTC basically threw away the one thing I loved about the game. Theme decks. They changed them to intro packs, then to 2 instead of 4 per set planeswalker decks.
Were they about playing Magic though? I haven't seen his early videos, so I don't know.
I think I remember DesolatorMagic mentioning playing the game somewhere in his past rants about netdecks.
He has videos where he shows himself driving himself to the LGS and doing prerelease. I know, because I watched his videos before all the politics started to pop up, and then I stopped watching because of the politics, and I started getting bored of watching pack opening videos, not like pack videos are boring, it's just that I have watched too may MTG pack opening videos from MTGHeadquarters, Pokemon pack openings from PrimetimePokemon, and Yugioh pack openings from CyberKnight8610 and SimplyUnlucky.
Not only Jeremy, but also Wedge. I used to watch his videos way back during Innistrad block, but not anymore. The current professor videos are alright, but in the early days, I didn't like how he reviews products as if there was only one type of person playing the game, and how everyone isn't buying product to play and have fun, but to make money out of it.
I also do not subscribe to anyone's channel. I type in their channel on my address bar and go directly there. I do not want my e-mail spammed with new videos from the channels I subscribe to.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Because Im skimming through all of the responses and they seem to focus on harassment but not refuting that point.
That's because it's not a point that passes the smell test in any version of reality. In fact, it may be the most absurd idea proffered in this entire thread. You sir, are a visionary when it comes to nonsensical tinfoil hattery.
Did Ms. Sprankle promise any kind of sexual remuneration in any of her Patreon videos? Nope. She sure didn't, so why am I wasting time responding to such an asinine idea, despite the fact that it is so stupid that my IQ may have dropped a few notches for having read it? I really don't know; perhaps I'm a masochist.
My 720 Peasant Cube
Uhhh what? You think the idea that maybe an attractive women who dresses up revealing might be taking advantage of romantically challenge magic players is a tin foil conspiracy?
Yes, it is a tinfoil hat conspiracy. My god, this has seriously gone off the rails...
If I were in his spot, I would say that real life representation in the game, such as, equal representation of girls to guys in tournaments, is impossible because of the nature of the game. Look at tournaments. It is always people sitting across each other, like a 1 vs 1 game, right? What do girls like? Social games. Multiplayer games. Games where you interact with one another, like Catan, and a multitude of board games out there. It's the fact that this game does not require teamwork skill is why they attract those "alone" type of people. Those who can't talk to people.
If there is even one female in a tournament it is good enough. You do not have to have 1:1 ratio of females to males at a LGS. Girls can just as easily enjoy the game at home, and that is already good enough.
Look at video games. Why do men outnumber women in video games? Video games are played by one person. Even if you are playing an online multiplayer game, the face to face eye contact social aspect of the game is missing.
Girls are like, "Let me help you.", and they work together.
Guys go, "Give me that, let me show you how it's done", and grabs what you are holding and attempts to do the job himself.
Yes. It's beyond stupid. It makes false assumptions about all parties involved. Did I also mention how generally moronic the whole notion is? Because if I didn't, it displays a level of idiocy so monumental that I may tell my grandkids about it one day.
My 720 Peasant Cube
I find it almost impossible that someone can be that unaware of how marketing works.Like did you never hear of the term fan service?
I'll be customarily blunt about this: That ***** doesn't happen.
It's just scaremongering meant to help people feel bad about alienating others. Sure, some cosplayers may be in it for the money, but their intentions aren't this kind of predatory "lead men on and victimize them out of their money" gubbins. At worst, it's just business.
What makes you so sure of the moral clarity of a group of people?
Sex Appeal is refrencing what exactly?
While true, it is an unbased claim as to her intentions, and is utterly insulting to her fanbase as a whole, and intelligence of any reasonable person, including you. He is playing you for an idiot by making this claim, because it requires you to simply accept his statement as the gospel truth on her intentions without providing a shred of reason to believe its true.
While "sex sells" is a thing, you would have to be willfully obtuse if you think that people are slavishly swayed by sexuality in such a way. It also speaks nothing to the heterosexual women whom financially support her, the adults and friends whom financially support her, and plenty of other people who just enjoy the cosplay scene. He is relying on you to simply accept it as the case that she is a predator preying on stupid male teenagers who can't think beyond their genitals. Let that bloody well sink in.
Further, it has nothing at all to do with the conversation, because it has nothing at all to do with why Christine quit. She quit because of harassment she received from playing Flip It or Rip it, which included death threats and the like for daring to destroy Magic cards. She received incredibly lewd comments that well above and beyond simple comments on her appearance.
To bring up this utterly silly notion that Cosplayers are predators preying on young boys who can't control their sexual desires plays right into the same falatious thinking that Jeremy and his ilk accuse SJWs of doing. It is present Young Males as being incapable of controlling their sexuality, and being easily manipulated due to their stupidity and base inability to control their sexual desires, and need to offload sexual aggression.
What you are doing is falling for his diversion tactics. He very clearly knows he's an ass who doesn't have a leg to stand on, at all, and very likely will be facing repercussions for being an ass. Rather than admit culpability in the situation, however, he is pointed you down a road of where the REAL problem is. Don't bother looking at the fact that he is a self-admitted ass who insults people on the daily unapologetically, whose beef with Christine stems from personal issues involving their shared history, and that he has over the last few years made unprovoked attacks against her because of said personal issues (Including days before she decided to quit, when he made an unprovoked attack on her on twitter). No, you have to go look at the REAL problem of Women being Sexual Predators for preying on stupid young men who can't control their sexuality.
If you believe he is at all concerned with this junk, you have been played hard by somebody who is a self-absorbed ass who is doing everything in his power to deflect you from seeing the actual reasons for why he has been blacklisted.
Since you're determined to be obtuse and ridiculous, do a Google image search for Christine Sprankle. What you'll see is a cosplayer who clearly strives for accuracy. What's the most titillating image you find? You'll probably zero in on depictions of Liliana and maybe Nissa, while clearly ignoring Elspeth, Avacyn, Teysa, April O'Neill, Princess Peach, and any number of sensibly clothed characters. Your assessment of Ms. Sprankle is wrong, as is your view of Magic players as romantically awkward neckbeards. So you see her belly sometimes? Big ******* deal.
My 720 Peasant Cube
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Im just telling you what I gathered in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nslCeqwKuCk&t=339s, that it seemed like this is what the whole thing started over that issue.
As far as rip it or flip it, i didnt even know that was a thing until yesterday and I guess I always knew people get mad about people ripping up magic cards but I never got it.
Do you have a source for that?
Citation needed. I’m not taking the listen and believe bull*****. Unless this girl has some proof this Jeremy dork harassed her then she’s full of *****. Also dude can’t be held responsible for the actions of others.
Ps critique isn’t harassment.
Look, Sex Sells is a thing. It's all over the place. People like to look at other people they find sexually attractice, and yes occasionally have sexual fantasies about others. This is all normal human behavior, regardless of who you are.
To imply, however, that Young Males are slavishly devoted to this, and are unwittingly being preyed upon by predatory Cosplayers, is asinine. Not only is it patently absurd and reinforces the concept of males (particularly male gamers) being idiot sex obsessed neckbeards, it is utterly unfair as you said in this case. Very little of what Sprankle has could even remotely be interpretted as overtly sexual in nature; her promotional material is hardly what I would call sexual in nature. I highly doubt, further, that the people sending overly graphic lewd messages are her actual supporters, and are likely idiot trolls being idiots for the lulz.
I have yet to see Sprankle ever criticize a single person for saying she was attractive or what not; the only comment I have seen is her criticize a truly gross messages that was obviously meant to make her uncomfortable, likely by a troll.
Yes, because this is "critique", and not intentional denigration of her (by name, no less!), and involving her in his Anti-Female-Spike crusade for no damn reason at all:
https://twitter.com/mtgheadquarters/status/931189044905742338
But hey, the only time he ever mentioned her at all was in one video six months ago, and it was only critique. Right.