Due to the amount of attention this topic has been getting, we've decided to give this an official place of discussion on our forums. However, there are some ground rules:
This thread is not the place to defend harassment of any kind, nor is it the place to victim blame. MTGSalvation has very strong policies against harassment, both against members of our own community as well as public figures (such as Christine or WoTC). This will be grounds for an infraction.
No victim blaming. Being harassed is not something any out should expect, nor should they just 'tough it up' or be expected to be more resilient to any form of harassment.
Keep "SJW" arguments and insults out of this discussion. This is not the time nor the place for such an argument. As an additional reminder, SJW as a pejorative is considered flaming.
While many of the videos and tweets leading up to this were deleted, this is not the place to debate whether or not this actually happened. If you'd like a succinct run down, the Tolarian Community College has a video that does a decent job of giving a summary of the events. This isn't to say don't look in to it on your own, just that this isn't the place to argue about whether or not it took place. Clearly, someone felt like it was real enough to leave.
We will be closely watching this thread. Infractions are final if you are found in violation of any of the above or any of MTGSalvation's standard rules. Consider this your warning.
Hum, I think this event is a byproduct of a more all-encompassing phenomenon that has been going on for a while now.
Simply put: ever since a vocal minority of people started expressing overarching generalizations of huge segments of the population (the so-called 'SJWs'), a counter-movement started to take shape and size to go against them (the 'anti-sjws' or 'skeptics'). This has gained a much bigger size on youtube, where channels that 'answer sjws' started to spread like wildfire in a dry field. The issue is that these people, the anti-sjws, became MUCH worse than the thing they were originally trying to fight against.
Anyone with a clear and level-headed mind understands that tagging all white man as rapists or all minority groups as victims under all circunstances is wrong, or at least misleading. The problem is that the 'counter-movement' to that is now composed of people who literally advocate for ethnical cleansing/superiority. People who actively search for the worst of the worst examples on the liberal left to bash down, as if that represented its whole. People who come up with childish expressions like 'cuck' and 'beta', threaten the use of violence and think all the problems in the world boil down to some college kids barring speakers who advocate for hate.
This is nuts. It is this conter-movement that has given birth and power to stuff like Sargon of Akkad, Dave Rubin, Steven Crowder, Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, etc. Some of these people existed before this movement existed, but they gained A LOT of traction after that. This Jeremy guy is just the new small ice cube in the huge iceberg that has been getting bigger and bigger. I feel like this is bigger than the whole mtg community, to be honest. And, from what I know, the only way to effectively shut down these people is to not talk about them (ironical, given that I'm doing so). You have to let them rot in obscurity and crawl back to the hole they came out from. These are not regular right-wingers. They're crazy people. Don't get me wrong: the community is 100% CORRRECT in calling out Jeremy's bull***** against other people and demand action from Wizards. However, after that is done, I don't think we should give them more audience, more screentime. That's what they want, and that's how their movement gets stronger.
To me we have to let Wizards lay down their sentence, offer all support that we can to Sprankler and just try to better ourselves. Call out toxic behavior when you see it. If you already do that, great! If you don't do that, don't refrain yourself next time. And, of course, be welcoming to anyone, regardless of their background, into the community of magic. Teach them how to play and belive them! When you believe someone, they can be better. If they act inappropriately, don't chastise them immediately. Explain what they did wrong, and how they can do better next time. Ignore the obvious trolls, instead of feeding them. Let people like this Jeremy rot alone in his world where he believes he is the sole victim of a huge conspiracy and everyone is out to get him. Don't harass him, don't threaten him, just let him be. Ignore him. Don't give him your time. He doesn't deserve it.
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So the trick is to not post in this thread, then? Looking at the other thread it seems like everyone not condemning the guy was given a warning for trolling. This is really poor conduct by the mods.
The thing is that it's a situation where both sides are decidedly not equal. On the one hand, we have a member of the community who may or may not have done some things people dislike (such as play Flip It Or Rip It) and members of the community who act in utterly toxic, virulent ways that actively serve to shrink the community by driving people away. Defending the latter is defending trolling and harassment, and MTGSalvation is not the space for such activities. Therefore, discussing recent events is fine, but attempting to defend abhorrent behaviour and those who commit same is not fine. I won't speak to the above-infracted post, but it's perfectly possible to have a civilized discussion about the events surrounding Christine Sprankle without delving into "SJW" nonsense.
So the trick is to not post in this thread, then? Looking at the other thread it seems like everyone not condemning the guy was given a warning for trolling. This is really poor conduct by the mods.
Yes, people who are defending well-known harassers, questioning the validity of extremely obviously valid harassment claims, brushing off harassment as "just a joke", and blaming the victims in that thread were infracted. That is also going to be true of this thread. If it is your opinion that toxic harassers aren't actually toxic or harassers, or that they're just joking, or that their victims had it coming, I do invite you not to post in this thread (or any other about this topic).
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The thing is that it's a situation where both sides are decidedly not equal. On the one hand, we have a member of the community who may or may not have done some things people dislike (such as play Flip It Or Rip It) and members of the community who act in utterly toxic, virulent ways that actively serve to shrink the community by driving people away. Defending the latter is defending trolling and harassment, and MTGSalvation is not the space for such activities. Therefore, discussing recent events is fine, but attempting to defend abhorrent behaviour and those who commit same is not fine. I won't speak to the above-infracted post, but it's perfectly possible to have a civilized discussion about the events surrounding Christine Sprankle without delving into "SJW" nonsense.
Hey hey hey. You said the forbidden acronym. Give yourself an infraction. Now.
To clarify, Ashiok gave a well-written, thoughtful analysis of the situation and its many moving parts, and Wildfire basically saw the forbidden acronym (look, I don't want an infraction myself) and tossed out an infraction. This is an opportunity to have a real discussion about the issue, but it would seem the mods just want an echo chamber.
Look, I believe that Jeremy is a toxic presence in the Magic community. He's frankly a vile, yet oddly impotent *****stirrer. However, when we completely wall off an opportunity for real dialogue and discussion, we confer newfound credibility to the venom he so readily spews out. Sometimes, we have to hear the other side, even if it does make our skin crawl a little bit. Hearts and minds aren't changed by silence and censorship.
But of course, if none of the mods can get on board with this, I'll save any potential commenters the time:
"Jeremy sucks and women should be treated fairly." x 100. /thread
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
The issue is that these people, the anti-sjws, became MUCH worse than the thing they were originally trying to fight against.
The implication being that SJW were a) also bad on some level, and that there was a need for an Anti SJW movement to begin with. Can any position be taken too far? Yes. Is that the case here? No. Is implying that there is any equivalence between the two groups going to get you a warning? Yes.
I know I'm not in a position to have a say on this, but I think it is just better to lock the thread and do not talk about the subject then. I accept my infraction, it is okay, but higher levels of policing in a delicate matter like this is not going to foster an environment for a positive dicussion, in my view. I feel like this current situation with the cosplayer is directly related to the topics I mentioned before. Look at the state of this thread: there are 4 mod posts so far and 3 community member posts.
If you think the subject can't be addressed in certain angles to the point that it can't be discussed, then it is better not to discuss it. That is how I see it. For instance, I disagree with something Marsquisd said, but I can't even address it without receiving another infraction.
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Due to the amount of attention this topic has been getting, we've decided to give this an official place of discussion on our forums.
*snip*
And then spay or neuter anyone that disagrees with "we".
I would be willing to bet "we" supports the right of football players to protest by kneeling during the national anthem even though they're on company time and on private property. (I do even though I think they're asinine.)
Right now, I am, in a sense, on "we's" time and on the private property of magicthegatheringsalvation.com. Would "we" support my right to freedom of speech were it expressed as sympathy for the accused and/or utilizing politically incorrect terminology? Or would I be infracted and silenced?
But of course, if none of the mods can get on board with this, I'll save any potential commenters the time:
"Jeremy sucks and women should be treated fairly." x 100. /thread
This is overly reductionist and completely misses the good that can come from discussion in a thread like this. Women are all too often treated like dirt in gaming communities, and Magic is no exception (for example, I've been driven away from two LGSes due to toxic environments, myself, and have basically resigned myself to sticking to MTGO as a result of it). This is a good opportunity for the community to self-reflect, unpack the prejudices that lead to these things happening, and gain more awareness of how to prevent unfortunate incidents like this from happening again.
Well, all I got to say on the subject is that Thanksgiving break started with great things like Desert Bus for Hope and a bunch of guys all thanking each other for helping make content for the denizens of the net, and then it ended with the entire house of cards falling down in a spectacle over a bunch of tweets. This literally ended a few MTG youtube channels just from the collateral damage caused by basically UnsleevedMedia and potentially wedge.
Shaermon, I'm going to be strait with you: Do NOT look into this unless you are very good at dealing with super polarizing material. I literally watched about 2 hours of videos just to see what was going on with this and the professor at Tolarian just confirmed everything. Jeremy could lose his channels, likely get banned from DCI Sanctioned events, and that's the not so bad things that are likely heading his way.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
But of course, if none of the mods can get on board with this, I'll save any potential commenters the time:
"Jeremy sucks and women should be treated fairly." x 100. /thread
This is overly reductionist and completely misses the good that can come from discussion in a thread like this. Women are all too often treated like dirt in gaming communities, and Magic is no exception (for example, I've been driven away from two LGSes due to toxic environments, myself, and have basically resigned myself to sticking to MTGO as a result of it). This is a good opportunity for the community to self-reflect, unpack the prejudices that lead to these things happening, and gain more awareness of how to prevent unfortunate incidents like this from happening again.
Are you joking?! Did you read the rest of the post or did you just zero in on the part you excised so you can respond to it without context? You then went on to restate my original thoughts on the matter, which is odd. However, this noble goal of self-reflection you espouse is undermined when the rules of engagement boil down to "agree or don't post." For the record, I agree, but the mods here are stifling healthy discourse.
So getting back to your selective quotation: Jeremy does suck, and women should be treated fairly. These were true statements, though they are basically all we're supposed to say in this thread per the OP's stated rules. The irony of your calling my post reductionist is utterly staggering since you didn't take the time to read it or truly get it.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
Its pretty easy to hop onto Christine's side of this because this isn't the first time Jeremy has gotten cracked down on for saying something stupid.
Side? The people who are fighting and seperating the community right now on youtube are the people receiving promotional material directly from Wizards of the Coast as well as sponsorship from major card vendors. Not to mention the ones who are not being sponsored are still likely players that have DCI numbers. Wizards is going to have a field day with this entire thing and I'm not even sure what is going to happen at this rate. We may be seeing Wizards completely pull out of sponsoring youtube personalities like Tolarian and revising how they promote the game as a whole. This kind of stuff hurts the image of the game and many players could potentially leave the game due to the drama as politics is not usually a positive thing in peoples lives.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I know I'm not in a position to have a say on this, but I think it is just better to lock the thread and do not talk about the subject then. I accept my infraction, it is okay, but higher levels of policing in a delicate matter like this is not going to foster an environment for a positive dicussion, in my view. I feel like this current situation with the cosplayer is directly related to the topics I mentioned before. Look at the state of this thread: there are 4 mod posts so far and 3 community member posts.
If you think the subject can't be addressed in certain angles to the point that it can't be discussed, then it is better not to discuss it. That is how I see it. For instance, I disagree with something Marsquisd said, but I can't even address it without receiving another infraction.
I agree. The restrictions placed on this topic is throttling a frank and important discussion. Instead, I have to focus far more energy considering my words carefully or risk infractions. We all get it, it's just xkcd #1357. So do we want to be part of the solution or part of the problem? Keep in mind, doing nothing equates to being part of the problem.
If we, the community, can't actively draw the line in the sand and tell WotC, sponsors and the rest outliers of the community that toxic behavior is flat out not acceptable from either side, then why are "we" a part of that community?
Edit: removed link due to language I didn't notice
It's not a whole lot different from the sexual harassment problems that hit the FGC during the whole Street Fighter X Tekken promotion (which was gross on several levels).
The major issue is the obvious one: I regularly travel to 4 or 5 shops in the greater Portland area, based on where my job takes me. Combined total players: around 270. Women/girls that aren't staff: 2. Both of them have taken the stance of "I don't want to deal with anyone's *****, I just want to play cards".
So many of the players don't know how to act around women. And the online view of women is... well look at 4chan or Reddit, nuff said. Combine those two... and you get some ugly moments.
No doubt Jeremy screwed up. But the issue is larger.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
However, this noble goal of self-reflection you espouse is undermined when the rules of engagement boil down to "agree or don't post."
If someone can't agree that hatred and misogyny have no place on MTGSalvation, then there's no place on MTGSalvation for them. Speaking in defense of those things is not "healthy discourse" and we aren't going to play some kind of false equivalency game and pretend otherwise.
However, this noble goal of self-reflection you espouse is undermined when the rules of engagement boil down to "agree or don't post."
If someone can't agree that hatred and misogyny have no place on MTGSalvation, then there's no place on MTGSalvation for them. Speaking in defense of those things is not "healthy discourse" and we aren't going to play some kind of false equivalency game and pretend otherwise.
Pretty much how I see this. It’s beyond the point of needing to hear the other side. We get it. We see it every day. We can watch Jeremy’s videos, look at his tweets, go on reddit, etc. We do not need to have this evil other side to have the discussion. It’s past that.
So this has escalated in the past 24-36 hours with a slew of hateful rants from Jeremy in which he seems to imply that he's some kind of martyr for free speech, and the rest of us are "beta male cucks," which I guess is a term he and his followers like to throw around. Honestly, after looking at a few more of his videos, I'm surprised he doesn't have more tiki torches in the background.
While I have my own personal mixed issues, it is our duty and prerogative to stand up to 21st century bullies. Today it's Sprankler, tomorrow it could be your wife, your husband, your daughter, your father... or you. If no one stands up now, who will stand up for you?
Christine is not gonna come back, this wasn't a catalyst it was just lubricant. She's been preoccupied with how far she was from making cosplay a viable secondary source of income and finally decided to stop baby-sitting fat losers for a company/fandom that doesn't generate content creators 1/10th of the patronage other IPs do.
Jeremmy is not gonna be hurt by this even if he desserves it, he has zero value as an entertainer and knows so very well. His current goal is evidently to harass key WotC favorites to force a ban or legal action so that he may become a martyr for internet alt-right losers and a lightning rod for their neetbucks.
Both will ultimately be better off thanks to this drama. What was hurt this past week was people's capacity to discuss MtG without involving politics because we walked right into a self-victimizing troll's reddit-triggering scheme.
And yes Marsquisd, there is a need for anti-SJW moderation as evident in the racism exposed by "it's ok to be white". As a POC I can hardly believe how willing left-leaning Americans are to dogmatize that any white person who doesn't hate themselves and actively work to deteriorate their own life is a "nazi". Being a victim doesn't render you unable to victimize others, and radicalizing politics on both ends only increasess the ammount of possibe victims of abuse and harassment by simply reducing the world to "we"s and "they"s.
I know I'm not in a position to have a say on this, but I think it is just better to lock the thread and do not talk about the subject then. I accept my infraction, it is okay, but higher levels of policing in a delicate matter like this is not going to foster an environment for a positive dicussion, in my view. I feel like this current situation with the cosplayer is directly related to the topics I mentioned before. Look at the state of this thread: there are 4 mod posts so far and 3 community member posts.
If you think the subject can't be addressed in certain angles to the point that it can't be discussed, then it is better not to discuss it. That is how I see it. For instance, I disagree with something Marsquisd said, but I can't even address it without receiving another infraction.
I agree. The restrictions placed on this topic is throttling a frank and important discussion. Instead, I have to focus far more energy considering my words carefully or risk infractions. We all get it, it's just xkcd #1357. So do we want to be part of the solution or part of the problem? Keep in mind, doing nothing equates to being part of the problem.
If we, the community, can't actively draw the line in the sand and tell WotC, sponsors and the rest outliers of the community that toxic behavior is flat out not acceptable from either side, then why are "we" a part of that community?
Edit: removed link due to language I didn't notice
If you truly find it difficult to say what you think needs to be said without including an entire paragraph to explain that "oh sjws started it", like that first guy did, then I am inclined to believe you do not actually have anything important to say on this topic.
The TCC video really makes my heart hurt...and this is how Jeremy reacts. If there's any doubt left?
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Simply put: ever since a vocal minority of people started expressing overarching generalizations of huge segments of the population (the so-called 'SJWs'), a counter-movement started to take shape and size to go against them (the 'anti-sjws' or 'skeptics'). This has gained a much bigger size on youtube, where channels that 'answer sjws' started to spread like wildfire in a dry field. The issue is that these people, the anti-sjws, became MUCH worse than the thing they were originally trying to fight against.
Anyone with a clear and level-headed mind understands that tagging all white man as rapists or all minority groups as victims under all circunstances is wrong, or at least misleading. The problem is that the 'counter-movement' to that is now composed of people who literally advocate for ethnical cleansing/superiority. People who actively search for the worst of the worst examples on the liberal left to bash down, as if that represented its whole. People who come up with childish expressions like 'cuck' and 'beta', threaten the use of violence and think all the problems in the world boil down to some college kids barring speakers who advocate for hate.
This is nuts. It is this conter-movement that has given birth and power to stuff like Sargon of Akkad, Dave Rubin, Steven Crowder, Paul Joseph Watson, Alex Jones, etc. Some of these people existed before this movement existed, but they gained A LOT of traction after that. This Jeremy guy is just the new small ice cube in the huge iceberg that has been getting bigger and bigger. I feel like this is bigger than the whole mtg community, to be honest. And, from what I know, the only way to effectively shut down these people is to not talk about them (ironical, given that I'm doing so). You have to let them rot in obscurity and crawl back to the hole they came out from. These are not regular right-wingers. They're crazy people. Don't get me wrong: the community is 100% CORRRECT in calling out Jeremy's bull***** against other people and demand action from Wizards. However, after that is done, I don't think we should give them more audience, more screentime. That's what they want, and that's how their movement gets stronger.
To me we have to let Wizards lay down their sentence, offer all support that we can to Sprankler and just try to better ourselves. Call out toxic behavior when you see it. If you already do that, great! If you don't do that, don't refrain yourself next time. And, of course, be welcoming to anyone, regardless of their background, into the community of magic. Teach them how to play and belive them! When you believe someone, they can be better. If they act inappropriately, don't chastise them immediately. Explain what they did wrong, and how they can do better next time. Ignore the obvious trolls, instead of feeding them. Let people like this Jeremy rot alone in his world where he believes he is the sole victim of a huge conspiracy and everyone is out to get him. Don't harass him, don't threaten him, just let him be. Ignore him. Don't give him your time. He doesn't deserve it.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Yes, people who are defending well-known harassers, questioning the validity of extremely obviously valid harassment claims, brushing off harassment as "just a joke", and blaming the victims in that thread were infracted. That is also going to be true of this thread. If it is your opinion that toxic harassers aren't actually toxic or harassers, or that they're just joking, or that their victims had it coming, I do invite you not to post in this thread (or any other about this topic).
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Hey hey hey. You said the forbidden acronym. Give yourself an infraction. Now.
To clarify, Ashiok gave a well-written, thoughtful analysis of the situation and its many moving parts, and Wildfire basically saw the forbidden acronym (look, I don't want an infraction myself) and tossed out an infraction. This is an opportunity to have a real discussion about the issue, but it would seem the mods just want an echo chamber.
Look, I believe that Jeremy is a toxic presence in the Magic community. He's frankly a vile, yet oddly impotent *****stirrer. However, when we completely wall off an opportunity for real dialogue and discussion, we confer newfound credibility to the venom he so readily spews out. Sometimes, we have to hear the other side, even if it does make our skin crawl a little bit. Hearts and minds aren't changed by silence and censorship.
But of course, if none of the mods can get on board with this, I'll save any potential commenters the time:
"Jeremy sucks and women should be treated fairly." x 100. /thread
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The implication being that SJW were a) also bad on some level, and that there was a need for an Anti SJW movement to begin with. Can any position be taken too far? Yes. Is that the case here? No. Is implying that there is any equivalence between the two groups going to get you a warning? Yes.
If you think the subject can't be addressed in certain angles to the point that it can't be discussed, then it is better not to discuss it. That is how I see it. For instance, I disagree with something Marsquisd said, but I can't even address it without receiving another infraction.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
And then spay or neuter anyone that disagrees with "we".
I would be willing to bet "we" supports the right of football players to protest by kneeling during the national anthem even though they're on company time and on private property. (I do even though I think they're asinine.)
Right now, I am, in a sense, on "we's" time and on the private property of magicthegatheringsalvation.com. Would "we" support my right to freedom of speech were it expressed as sympathy for the accused and/or utilizing politically incorrect terminology? Or would I be infracted and silenced?
This is overly reductionist and completely misses the good that can come from discussion in a thread like this. Women are all too often treated like dirt in gaming communities, and Magic is no exception (for example, I've been driven away from two LGSes due to toxic environments, myself, and have basically resigned myself to sticking to MTGO as a result of it). This is a good opportunity for the community to self-reflect, unpack the prejudices that lead to these things happening, and gain more awareness of how to prevent unfortunate incidents like this from happening again.
Shaermon, I'm going to be strait with you: Do NOT look into this unless you are very good at dealing with super polarizing material. I literally watched about 2 hours of videos just to see what was going on with this and the professor at Tolarian just confirmed everything. Jeremy could lose his channels, likely get banned from DCI Sanctioned events, and that's the not so bad things that are likely heading his way.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Are you joking?! Did you read the rest of the post or did you just zero in on the part you excised so you can respond to it without context? You then went on to restate my original thoughts on the matter, which is odd. However, this noble goal of self-reflection you espouse is undermined when the rules of engagement boil down to "agree or don't post." For the record, I agree, but the mods here are stifling healthy discourse.
So getting back to your selective quotation: Jeremy does suck, and women should be treated fairly. These were true statements, though they are basically all we're supposed to say in this thread per the OP's stated rules. The irony of your calling my post reductionist is utterly staggering since you didn't take the time to read it or truly get it.
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Side? The people who are fighting and seperating the community right now on youtube are the people receiving promotional material directly from Wizards of the Coast as well as sponsorship from major card vendors. Not to mention the ones who are not being sponsored are still likely players that have DCI numbers. Wizards is going to have a field day with this entire thing and I'm not even sure what is going to happen at this rate. We may be seeing Wizards completely pull out of sponsoring youtube personalities like Tolarian and revising how they promote the game as a whole. This kind of stuff hurts the image of the game and many players could potentially leave the game due to the drama as politics is not usually a positive thing in peoples lives.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I agree. The restrictions placed on this topic is throttling a frank and important discussion. Instead, I have to focus far more energy considering my words carefully or risk infractions. We all get it, it's just xkcd #1357. So do we want to be part of the solution or part of the problem? Keep in mind, doing nothing equates to being part of the problem.
If we, the community, can't actively draw the line in the sand and tell WotC, sponsors and the rest outliers of the community that toxic behavior is flat out not acceptable from either side, then why are "we" a part of that community?
Edit: removed link due to language I didn't notice
The major issue is the obvious one: I regularly travel to 4 or 5 shops in the greater Portland area, based on where my job takes me. Combined total players: around 270. Women/girls that aren't staff: 2. Both of them have taken the stance of "I don't want to deal with anyone's *****, I just want to play cards".
So many of the players don't know how to act around women. And the online view of women is... well look at 4chan or Reddit, nuff said. Combine those two... and you get some ugly moments.
No doubt Jeremy screwed up. But the issue is larger.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
If someone can't agree that hatred and misogyny have no place on MTGSalvation, then there's no place on MTGSalvation for them. Speaking in defense of those things is not "healthy discourse" and we aren't going to play some kind of false equivalency game and pretend otherwise.
Yes, thank you. This comes to mind:
See this video, I guess?
Pretty much how I see this. It’s beyond the point of needing to hear the other side. We get it. We see it every day. We can watch Jeremy’s videos, look at his tweets, go on reddit, etc. We do not need to have this evil other side to have the discussion. It’s past that.
YouTube Channel
Anyway, the Prof weighed with a video that can only be described as a polite call for decency, and scathing condemnation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nslCeqwKuCk
Honestly, I'm torn at this point. I'd like to ignore Jeremy and others like him, but is the silence equal to complicity?
My 720 Peasant Cube
I'm not caught up 100% on this situation but I'm glad the Prof is once again being a reasonable head in this.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
For that, I can only point you to Martin Niemöller.
While I have my own personal mixed issues, it is our duty and prerogative to stand up to 21st century bullies. Today it's Sprankler, tomorrow it could be your wife, your husband, your daughter, your father... or you. If no one stands up now, who will stand up for you?
Jeremmy is not gonna be hurt by this even if he desserves it, he has zero value as an entertainer and knows so very well. His current goal is evidently to harass key WotC favorites to force a ban or legal action so that he may become a martyr for internet alt-right losers and a lightning rod for their neetbucks.
Both will ultimately be better off thanks to this drama. What was hurt this past week was people's capacity to discuss MtG without involving politics because we walked right into a self-victimizing troll's reddit-triggering scheme.
And yes Marsquisd, there is a need for anti-SJW moderation as evident in the racism exposed by "it's ok to be white". As a POC I can hardly believe how willing left-leaning Americans are to dogmatize that any white person who doesn't hate themselves and actively work to deteriorate their own life is a "nazi". Being a victim doesn't render you unable to victimize others, and radicalizing politics on both ends only increasess the ammount of possibe victims of abuse and harassment by simply reducing the world to "we"s and "they"s.
Not when they have the explicit intention of generating a response and benefit from either outcome.
The TCC video really makes my heart hurt...and this is how Jeremy reacts. If there's any doubt left?
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.