"You're either alt-left or you're a nazi" is exactly the reason why a lot of people who find Jeremy disgusting refuse to shun him if it means taking your side.
Problem is pretty much nobody actually says that, or anything to that effect.
What I replied to did, if you can't see it it's because you're radicalized. Othering is othering, it's toxic and it clouds your mind to your own acts of tribalism.
Well great, people are being played hardcore now on this. So, Jeremy just posted a bunch of stuff that is going to rile up all these one dimensional emotionally charged youtube vigilantes and make it harder to get this resolved. Now he's saying Jimmy Wong has attacked him, says the professors video is a bunch of clips taken out of context (I literally watched all of the offending video footage, it isn't), and I don't even recall the rest of it.
it's the systemic toxicity in this and other male nerd dominated hobbies that continues unabated.
Anything male-dominated, really. It's not limited to nerds and it's not limited to hobbies.
"Kill all men! Except me, pls".
Wow that's not a strawman formed through a shallow understanding of the concepts the OP was bring up at all.
Considering your previous ridiculous "you're either alt-left or a nazi" strawman I'm not surprised. You really are a fan of constructing your opposition's position for them in an easy-to-knock-down form, aren't you?
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
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Can someone please give me a neutral short-version of the story? I've never heard of Sprankle, don't follow the cosplay scene, and don't watch mtg content on YouTube.
I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I've only heard the name Christine Sprankle from SCG Twitch streams. I don't watch MTG content on YouTube and know nothing of the parties involved.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a neutral version, just because most people who know the details have already chosen a side that they are adamantly for (and adamantly against the other).
Anyway, I'll try my best with the little that I know:
Christine Sprankle, a prominent MTG cosplayer, said that she was no longer cosplaying anything MTG related. She was partaking in an activity called "flip it or rip it", where people open packs and rip cards before looking at them, possibly destroying a valuable card. Apparently, people were criticizing/abusing her for this.
Sprankle then came out and said that UnsleevedMedia, a YouTube channel ran by someone named Jeremy, was the source of alleged harassment towards her, made her life hell, and was the reason she's quitting the Magic community.
In a YouTube video, UnsleevedMedia previously called out Sprankle for using her sexuality to further her career. Relates cosplaying to prancing around in lingerie. Accuses her of preying on younger males who are vulnerable to this sort of marketing. Made disparaging comments about her physical appearance and her integrity and was pretty objectively rude about it.
Members of the community have come to her defense and condemned UnsleevedMedia's actions. WotC said that they will take action. Tolarian Academy (another YouTube channel) defended her. Eric Froelich (an MTG pro) proposed an anti-bullying/harassment committee, tasked with investigating and preventing this type of harassment.
Other members of the community have come to the defense of UnsleevedMedia, stating that while he may be guilty of being a jerk, there was no actual harassment taking place. There was a YouTube video echoing UnsleevedMedia's sentiments about Sprankle, and also denying any harassment. States that the community is up-in-arms without looking at the facts first.
UnsleevedMedia has received harassment as well, in retaliation of his alleged harassment, including death threats, and people trying to find out where he lives.
YouTube took down one of his videos, citing bullying/harassment as the reason.
As for his reaction, Jeremy of UnsleevedMedia has not been apologetic, claims that he has not harassed anyone and that he himself is the victim of harassment. Responds to other people's criticism with his own criticism of his critics, including comments about another person's alleged infidelity. This is on his twitter feed.
Anyway, that's as much as I've gathered. I still haven't seen anything indicating of said harassment. I've seen one video of UnsleevedMedia calling out Sprankle and criticizing her, but the other video and his twitter posts have apparently been deleted.
I'd post links and examples, but this thread is being pretty heavily moderated. Warnings/Infractions being dealt out for anything that defends the alleged harasser, questioning whether or not harassment has taken place, asking for examples/proof of said harassment, or using the term "SJW" or "Social Justice Warrior".
I hope I don't get moderated for this, as I've tried my best to be neutral and just stating what I know.
I also requested some sort of clarification/examples of exactly what happened here but have yet to get a response.
it's the systemic toxicity in this and other male nerd dominated hobbies that continues unabated.
Anything male-dominated, really. It's not limited to nerds and it's not limited to hobbies.
"Kill all men! Except me, pls".
Wow that's not a strawman formed through a shallow understanding of the concepts the OP was bring up at all.
Considering your previous ridiculous "you're either alt-left or a nazi" strawman I'm not surprised. You really are a fan of constructing your opposition's position for them in an easy-to-knock-down form, aren't you?
When you see people refusing to even consider they may be becoming clouded by radicalized partisanship there's either facetious levity or anger.
If the argument were "If you use the term alt-right your opinion doesn't matter" you would not be defending it. And you may hate us all you want for not picking sides at the drop of a hat, but centrists and moderates at least try to understand problems and their causes before going berserk and giving Jeremy a load of content on a silver platter he wouldn't have avaliable if people hadn't taken the bait.
You don't have to chose to be a madman with an axe or a madman with a cleaver, you can chose to be a surgeon and try to solve things in a way that won't exacerbate other problems.
Can someone please give me a neutral short-version of the story? I've never heard of Sprankle, don't follow the cosplay scene, and don't watch mtg content on YouTube.
I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I've only heard the name Christine Sprankle from SCG Twitch streams. I don't watch MTG content on YouTube and know nothing of the parties involved.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a neutral version, just because most people who know the details have already chosen a side that they are adamantly for (and adamantly against the other).
Anyway, I'll try my best with the little that I know:
Christine Sprankle, a prominent MTG cosplayer, said that she was no longer cosplaying anything MTG related. She was partaking in an activity called "flip it or rip it", where people open packs and rip cards before looking at them, possibly destroying a valuable card. Apparently, people were criticizing/abusing her for this.
Sprankle then came out and said that UnsleevedMedia, a YouTube channel ran by someone named Jeremy, was the source of alleged harassment towards her, made her life hell, and was the reason she's quitting the Magic community.
In a YouTube video, UnsleevedMedia previously called out Sprankle for using her sexuality to further her career. Relates cosplaying to prancing around in lingerie. Accuses her of preying on younger males who are vulnerable to this sort of marketing. Made disparaging comments about her physical appearance and her integrity and was pretty objectively rude about it.
Members of the community have come to her defense and condemned UnsleevedMedia's actions. WotC said that they will take action. Tolarian Academy (another YouTube channel) defended her. Eric Froelich (an MTG pro) proposed an anti-bullying/harassment committee, tasked with investigating and preventing this type of harassment.
Other members of the community have come to the defense of UnsleevedMedia, stating that while he may be guilty of being a jerk, there was no actual harassment taking place. There was a YouTube video echoing UnsleevedMedia's sentiments about Sprankle, and also denying any harassment. States that the community is up-in-arms without looking at the facts first.
UnsleevedMedia has received harassment as well, in retaliation of his alleged harassment, including death threats, and people trying to find out where he lives.
YouTube took down one of his videos, citing bullying/harassment as the reason.
As for his reaction, Jeremy of UnsleevedMedia has not been apologetic, claims that he has not harassed anyone and that he himself is the victim of harassment. Responds to other people's criticism with his own criticism of his critics, including comments about another person's alleged infidelity. This is on his twitter feed.
Anyway, that's as much as I've gathered. I still haven't seen anything indicating of said harassment. I've seen one video of UnsleevedMedia calling out Sprankle and criticizing her, but the other video and his twitter posts have apparently been deleted.
I'd post links and examples, but this thread is being pretty heavily moderated. Warnings/Infractions being dealt out for anything that defends the alleged harasser, questioning whether or not harassment has taken place, asking for examples/proof of said harassment, or using the term "SJW" or "Social Justice Warrior".
I hope I don't get moderated for this, as I've tried my best to be neutral and just stating what I know.
I also requested some sort of clarification/examples of exactly what happened here but have yet to get a response.
That's basically my understanding of it and why I'm calling this entire thing a giant mess. It wasn't really even Christine that incited Jeremy directly, either. If I recall it was from some tweets posted by some others that threw the spot light onto Jeremy completely and then this snowballed into what we are seeing now.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Can someone please give me a neutral short-version of the story? I've never heard of Sprankle, don't follow the cosplay scene, and don't watch mtg content on YouTube.
The short version is that Sprankle has been getting nasty messages from (allegedly) his followers since she opened up her Twitter messages to the public. This has, apparently, gotten even worse since she said that she regretted opening her messages to the public because of lewd messages she got, which led to even worse messages involving death-threats and such. The overall accusation is that these are largely his followers that are doing this, and he is riling them up in his videos and doesn't make any attempt to admonition them. Anyway, his basic opinion of the subject is that Cosplayers women shouldn't have a problem with getting lewd, graphic, violent or nasty messages as they are essentially pornographers, selling sex to young men who just want to get laid and think they have a chance with her. And yes, those are his words on Sprankle, paraphrased slightly. He essentially thinks that what she has been getting is deserved, and she has no right to complain about it. The accusation is that he is intentionally inspiring or directly getting some of his followers to send said messages and the like to here. His defense is that he is not doing this at all, and it's unfair to hold him accountable for what his (alleged) followers do.
That's the short version that brings us up to today. Anyway, for some more indepth discussion on some of the finer details, the spoilered addendum with personal thoughts:
He claims the last time he made a comment about her was 6 months ago, and has given up on it. The problem comes in that this wasn't the case, as he has actually deleted some of the nastier tweets he put out that got his followers riled up within the past few weeks after Sprankle said she regretted making her post public. One of the tweets I personally saw was deriding Sprankle for wearing a NUPE shirt, ala' Spike, Tournament Grinder, calling her a cross-dressing guy and such. Keep in mind, here, that he has stated that Spike being a female is further ruining the game. He also has a video that pretty much says that Cosplayers are terrible, and are not "real" players. Any rational person who has any level of influence over an audience should see the end result of that.
Unfortunately, as I said, he inconveniently deleted this tweet from what I can find.
I'm seriously trying to be fair here, but it's actually really hard with him. He has a serious hate-on for Wedge, TCC, and Sprankle that largely involves some personal drama from a few years ago, and has made a lot of videos on how they are terrible and such. A near obsessive number, to be frank. And I can personally attest to seeing at least some nasty tweets he put out in the timeframe being deleted. I can't provide proof, obviously. It's enough to convince me on the subject, however you'll have to decide whether or not you are convinced I'm telling you the truth.
Can someone please give me a neutral short-version of the story? I've never heard of Sprankle, don't follow the cosplay scene, and don't watch mtg content on YouTube.
I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I've only heard the name Christine Sprankle from SCG Twitch streams. I don't watch MTG content on YouTube and know nothing of the parties involved.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a neutral version, just because most people who know the details have already chosen a side that they are adamantly for (and adamantly against the other).
Anyway, I'll try my best with the little that I know:
Christine Sprankle, a prominent MTG cosplayer, said that she was no longer cosplaying anything MTG related. She was partaking in an activity called "flip it or rip it", where people open packs and rip cards before looking at them, possibly destroying a valuable card. Apparently, people were criticizing/abusing her for this.
Sprankle then came out and said that UnsleevedMedia, a YouTube channel ran by someone named Jeremy, was the source of alleged harassment towards her, made her life hell, and was the reason she's quitting the Magic community.
In a YouTube video, UnsleevedMedia previously called out Sprankle for using her sexuality to further her career. Relates cosplaying to prancing around in lingerie. Accuses her of preying on younger males who are vulnerable to this sort of marketing. Made disparaging comments about her physical appearance and her integrity and was pretty objectively rude about it.
Members of the community have come to her defense and condemned UnsleevedMedia's actions. WotC said that they will take action. Tolarian Academy (another YouTube channel) defended her. Eric Froelich (an MTG pro) proposed an anti-bullying/harassment committee, tasked with investigating and preventing this type of harassment.
Other members of the community have come to the defense of UnsleevedMedia, stating that while he may be guilty of being a jerk, there was no actual harassment taking place. There was a YouTube video echoing UnsleevedMedia's sentiments about Sprankle, and also denying any harassment. States that the community is up-in-arms without looking at the facts first.
UnsleevedMedia has received harassment as well, in retaliation of his alleged harassment, including death threats, and people trying to find out where he lives.
YouTube took down one of his videos, citing bullying/harassment as the reason.
As for his reaction, Jeremy of UnsleevedMedia has not been apologetic, claims that he has not harassed anyone and that he himself is the victim of harassment. Responds to other people's criticism with his own criticism of his critics, including comments about another person's alleged infidelity. This is on his twitter feed.
Anyway, that's as much as I've gathered. I still haven't seen anything indicating of said harassment. I've seen one video of UnsleevedMedia calling out Sprankle and criticizing her, but the other video and his twitter posts have apparently been deleted.
I'd post links and examples, but this thread is being pretty heavily moderated. Warnings/Infractions being dealt out for anything that defends the alleged harasser, questioning whether or not harassment has taken place, asking for examples/proof of said harassment, or using the term "SJW" or "Social Justice Warrior".
I hope I don't get moderated for this, as I've tried my best to be neutral and just stating what I know.
I also requested some sort of clarification/examples of exactly what happened here but have yet to get a response.
Thanks buddy. That's a pretty neutral-sounding summary. I just couldn't dig into this today because I've been buy with class.
I know that in our society there is a controversy about how men should organize criticisms of women, especially the on gender and sex reasons. Same when the difference is religion, race, etc. Some think being very rude is fine, others think not. From what little I did see about this case on my own, including reading the thread, a lot of the vocabulary from both sides of this debate are being deployed.
I don't want to hear too much about hearsay, but I have a question - is it thought that women generally feel welcome in the mtg community or do they experience gender problems? It's mostly men playing in the Des Moines and Minneapolis/St. Paul areas.
I checked out a few of Jeremy's videos from today as well as a few older ones. It's just a never-ending assault on decency. He's steeped in paranoid conspiracy theories and overwrought self-righteousness. What you'll never see is inward reflection. You'll never hear any admission of wrongdoing, ever. What you will get is a continual doubling down, and a constant assertion of his victimhood, while never once having the self-awareness to realize that this is the same kind of wrath he's visited upon others.
It's gross, frankly. I'm disappointed that he has so much influence over so many people. Must there really be a culture war to determine whether or not all people get treated fairly? Are some cis white hetero males afraid that elevating others will occur at their detriment? I don't get it. I truly don't.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
Can someone please give me a neutral short-version of the story? I've never heard of Sprankle, don't follow the cosplay scene, and don't watch mtg content on YouTube.
I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I've only heard the name Christine Sprankle from SCG Twitch streams. I don't watch MTG content on YouTube and know nothing of the parties involved.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a neutral version, just because most people who know the details have already chosen a side that they are adamantly for (and adamantly against the other).
Anyway, I'll try my best with the little that I know:
Christine Sprankle, a prominent MTG cosplayer, said that she was no longer cosplaying anything MTG related. She was partaking in an activity called "flip it or rip it", where people open packs and rip cards before looking at them, possibly destroying a valuable card. Apparently, people were criticizing/abusing her for this.
Sprankle then came out and said that UnsleevedMedia, a YouTube channel ran by someone named Jeremy, was the source of alleged harassment towards her, made her life hell, and was the reason she's quitting the Magic community.
In a YouTube video, UnsleevedMedia previously called out Sprankle for using her sexuality to further her career. Relates cosplaying to prancing around in lingerie. Accuses her of preying on younger males who are vulnerable to this sort of marketing. Made disparaging comments about her physical appearance and her integrity and was pretty objectively rude about it.
Members of the community have come to her defense and condemned UnsleevedMedia's actions. WotC said that they will take action. Tolarian Academy (another YouTube channel) defended her. Eric Froelich (an MTG pro) proposed an anti-bullying/harassment committee, tasked with investigating and preventing this type of harassment.
Other members of the community have come to the defense of UnsleevedMedia, stating that while he may be guilty of being a jerk, there was no actual harassment taking place. There was a YouTube video echoing UnsleevedMedia's sentiments about Sprankle, and also denying any harassment. States that the community is up-in-arms without looking at the facts first.
UnsleevedMedia has received harassment as well, in retaliation of his alleged harassment, including death threats, and people trying to find out where he lives.
YouTube took down one of his videos, citing bullying/harassment as the reason.
As for his reaction, Jeremy of UnsleevedMedia has not been apologetic, claims that he has not harassed anyone and that he himself is the victim of harassment. Responds to other people's criticism with his own criticism of his critics, including comments about another person's alleged infidelity. This is on his twitter feed.
Anyway, that's as much as I've gathered. I still haven't seen anything indicating of said harassment. I've seen one video of UnsleevedMedia calling out Sprankle and criticizing her, but the other video and his twitter posts have apparently been deleted.
I'd post links and examples, but this thread is being pretty heavily moderated. Warnings/Infractions being dealt out for anything that defends the alleged harasser, questioning whether or not harassment has taken place, asking for examples/proof of said harassment, or using the term "SJW" or "Social Justice Warrior".
I hope I don't get moderated for this, as I've tried my best to be neutral and just stating what I know.
I also requested some sort of clarification/examples of exactly what happened here but have yet to get a response.
That's basically my understanding of it and why I'm calling this entire thing a giant mess. It wasn't really even Christine that incited Jeremy directly, either. If I recall it was from some tweets posted by some others that threw the spot light onto Jeremy completely and then this snowballed into what we are seeing now.
And now he can continue playing the victim for a little while longer instead of falling into obscurity as he desserves because people were too fast to take sides and didn't have the forethough of checking what kind of slime he is.
I had never even heard of the guy before this and it took me less than 20 minutes of google magic to realize he doesn't have the showmanship qualities necessary to sustain a channel, that he's pals with Sargon, and that he had a spike in relevancy when he started claiming he was unfairly blacklisted by WotC because of his opinions and bullying from other MtG content creators. It was immediately evident to me that he wants to force WotC to act against him so that he'll be martirized, that's his only hope of remaining relevant. And we are giving it to him with open hands.
it's the systemic toxicity in this and other male nerd dominated hobbies that continues unabated.
Anything male-dominated, really. It's not limited to nerds and it's not limited to hobbies.
"Kill all men! Except me, pls".
Wow that's not a strawman formed through a shallow understanding of the concepts the OP was bring up at all.
Considering your previous ridiculous "you're either alt-left or a nazi" strawman I'm not surprised. You really are a fan of constructing your opposition's position for them in an easy-to-knock-down form, aren't you?
When you see people refusing to even consider they may be becoming clouded by radicalized partisanship there's either facetious levity or anger.
If the argument were "If you use the term alt-right your opinion doesn't matter" you would not be defending it. And you may hate us all you want for not picking sides at the drop of a hat, but centrists and moderates at least try to understand problems and their causes before going berserk and giving Jeremy a load of content on a silver platter he wouldn't have avaliable if people hadn't taken the bait.
You don't have to chose to be a madman with an axe or a madman with a cleaver, you can chose to be a surgeon and try to solve things in a way that won't exacerbate other problems.
Again, this goes around, completely, what I was saying and constructs its own narrative of my argument via you saying "if the argument was X you would not be defensing it.". I wasn't defending anything. I pointed out your continuing use of strawmen in place of actually debating what your opposition was saying. It's an easy cop out to avoid your opponent's argument and make one for them that's so ridiculous it's easy to blow down with no mental effort.
Please learn how to form an argument.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
please forgive me as i dont live in america so im not fully caught up with what goes on there and what is acceptable or not. in america saying someones attractiveness is a 6 out of 10 is considered harassment?
Language is contextual. In this case, he wasn't merely commenting on her attractiveness and moving on, but was doing so in order to deride and insult her. I grow wary of these sorts of literal word arguments, as though they mean anything.
I checked out a few of Jeremy's videos from today as well as a few older ones. It's just a never-ending assault on decency. He's steeped in paranoid conspiracy theories and overwrought self-righteousness. What you'll never see is inward reflection. You'll never hear any admission of wrongdoing, ever. What you will get is a continual doubling down, and a constant assertion of his victimhood, while never once having the self-awareness to realize that this is the same kind of wrath he's visited upon others.
It's gross, frankly. I'm disappointed that he has so much influence over so many people. Must there really be a culture war to determine whether or not all people get treated fairly? Are some cis white hetero males afraid that elevating others will occur at their detriment? I don't get it. I truly don't.
There is a school of thinking at the moment that sees equality as a "zero-sum game". Essentially, if one group is getting rights or better treatment, another group must be getting fewer rights or worse treatment. A lot of the anger from these people stems from that. The argument is complete bollocks, but it doesn't stop the people from believing.
For instance, during the arguments over gay marriage, a lot of people at sites like Return of Kings were upset that they were unable to fire someone or kick them out of their business for being gay. They saw the advancement of gay rights as removing their right to fire gay people.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Anything male-dominated, really. It's not limited to nerds and it's not limited to hobbies.
"Kill all men! Except me, pls".
Wow that's not a strawman formed through a shallow understanding of the concepts the OP was bring up at all.
Considering your previous ridiculous "you're either alt-left or a nazi" strawman I'm not surprised. You really are a fan of constructing your opposition's position for them in an easy-to-knock-down form, aren't you?
When you see people refusing to even consider they may be becoming clouded by radicalized partisanship there's either facetious levity or anger.
If the argument were "If you use the term alt-right your opinion doesn't matter" you would not be defending it. And you may hate us all you want for not picking sides at the drop of a hat, but centrists and moderates at least try to understand problems and their causes before going berserk and giving Jeremy a load of content on a silver platter he wouldn't have avaliable if people hadn't taken the bait.
You don't have to chose to be a madman with an axe or a madman with a cleaver, you can chose to be a surgeon and try to solve things in a way that won't exacerbate other problems.
Again, this goes around, completely, what I was saying and constructs its own narrative of my argument via you saying "if the argument was X you would not be defensing it.". I wasn't defending anything. I pointed out your continuing use of strawmen in place of actually debating what your opposition was saying. It's an easy cop out to avoid your opponent's argument and make one for them that's so ridiculous it's easy to blow down with no mental effort.
Please learn how to form an argument.
Kelzam argued against moderate contextualization. I used hyperbole to point out that such arguments chase away people who agree with you but are uncomfortable with radicalization. Teia Rabishu and you decided to antagonize me for my choice of speech figures, as per usual when it comes to left vs moderate arguments.
Meanwhile Jeremy got 40k more views than his "review" average thanks to people refusing to face this issue in a moderate way.
A single pebble is different from an avalanche made up of pebbles.
what does that mean?
A solitary small rock can hurt, but does it still hurt if you are pelted over and over by many more? If we analyze only a single rock are we blinding ourselves to the rest? Jabs of words thrown like rocks.
Hum. Why does this crap always get so much social media attention? Some jackass is a jackass, and everyone can't stop talking about it. Business as usual.
Hum. Why does this crap always get so much social media attention? Some jackass is a jackass, and everyone can't stop talking about it. Business as usual.
Hum. Why does this crap always get so much social media attention? Some jackass is a jackass, and everyone can't stop talking about it. Business as usual.
Because the internet is being used by political interests to segment the people, in a world led by a bipartisan socio-economic potence. Either you're "we" or "them" and if you dare not chose they chose for you.
I am a nazi marxist, a misandrist mysoginyst, a racist against everyone and a capitalist communist all at the same time because I chose to think in colors other than red and blue.
One of the tweets I personally saw was deriding Sprankle for wearing a NUPE shirt, ala' Spike, Tournament Grinder, calling her a cross-dressing guy and such. Keep in mind, here, that he has stated that Spike being a female is further ruining the game.
I remember when I saw this card for the first time I thought, how nice, a representation of a female player. I wonder how violent the opposition will be to this?
Because the internet is being used by political interests to segment the people, in a world led by a bipartisan socio-economic potence. Either you're "we" or "them" and if you dare not chose they chose for you.
Conspiratorial thinking not based in reality.
I am a nazi marxist, a misandrist mysoginyst, a racist against everyone and a capitalist communist all at the same time because I chose to think in colors other than red and blue.
Incoherent rambling.
It's not hard. Make a reasonably succinct point based on evidence dispassionately.
One of the tweets I personally saw was deriding Sprankle for wearing a NUPE shirt, ala' Spike, Tournament Grinder, calling her a cross-dressing guy and such. Keep in mind, here, that he has stated that Spike being a female is further ruining the game.
I remember when I saw this card for the first time I thought, how nice, a representation of a female player. I wonder how violent the opposition will be to this?
I remember seeing the card for the first time, and being somewhat annoyed that it's ability didn't follow the trend from the other cards of having a powerful black-bordered effect (And that a Tournament Grinder is getting non-tournament legal cards). Then I saw the art, saw it was female, had no real reaction to the fact it was female because why would I, and moved on. Then I saw that other people were happy it was female, and thought "That's cool", and went on with my day. Because it wasn't important to me that it be depicted a certain way, however I can understand why to some people it would be seen as a nice gesture and I am actually pretty happy when other people are happy, and see no reason to get upset over it at all as it's just a nice gesture. On the list of things that I feel I should get upset over, the fact that Spike is female doesn't even register as something that I *should* be upset about. I honestly do not get the mentality or thought process on this one.
It's so incredibly bizarre to me that anybody cares that it doesn't represent the typical male Spike. It's doubly odd as the outrage is coming from someone who in one breath claims that Wizards shouldn't worry about Gender representation at all, and in the same breath proclaims how unfair this representation is to male players. The line of thinking just doesn't make sense.
The Matrix was a terrible movie and the pill ***** is a loaded analogy, specially in alt-left vs alt-right circles such as social media, I know.
No one antagonized you. As the goose said I pointed out the fact that you constantly utilize bite sized non-arguments in place of any actual rationalization. Which you just did again with your "red pill or blue pill" reduction of the goose's latest reply. Again, ignoring everything that someone says and inserting your own version of what they said is not an argument. Address the actual terms they use or don't bother.
Even further than that your rantings about being antagonized or being called a *insert string of negative political labels here* (which absolutely no one here called you, by the way) are unfounded and honestly come off as a sad attempt to make yourself seem like both the victim and as someone who is ostracized because "I just think in a better way than you silly side choosers". The less conversational side of me is honestly very ready to brush this off as more centrist mental masturbatory nonsense but that isn't really what the issue that I've been discussing with you is here. Which, by the way, you did in fact contradict your own line of "non us vs them" thinking by drawing a line between the left and the "moderates". That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
Again, I would suggest that you actually tend to the arguments being made, stop inserting your own narrative in place of other's arguments and leave your mental baggage of what you've argued with in the past at the door because these are different individuals here than whoever allegedly called you a misogynistmisandristcommunistcapitalistlasgnacake or whatever other brand of insult that has not been directed towards you in this thread. You are not being insulted and you are certainly not the most logical person in the room for being a holy centrist.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
The Matrix was a terrible movie and the pill ***** is a loaded analogy, specially in alt-left vs alt-right circles such as social media, I know.
No one antagonized you. As the goose said I pointed out the fact that you constantly utilize bite sized non-arguments in place of any actual rationalization. Which you just did again with your "red pill or blue pill" reduction of the goose's latest reply. Again, ignoring everything that someone says and inserting your own version of what they said is not an argument. Address the actual terms they use or don't bother.
Even further than that your rantings about being antagonized or being called a *insert string of negative political labels here* (which absolutely no one here called you, by the way) are unfounded and honestly come off as a sad attempt to make yourself seem like both the victim and as someone who is ostracized because "I just think in a better way than you silly side choosers". The less conversational side of me is honestly very ready to brush this off as more centrist mental masturbatory nonsense but that isn't really what the issue that I've been discussing with you is here. Which, by the way, you did in fact contradict your own line of "non us vs them" thinking by drawing a line between the left and the "moderates". That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
Again, I would suggest that you actually tend to the arguments being made, stop inserting your own narrative in place of other's arguments and leave your mental baggage of what you've argued with in the past at the door because these are different individuals here than whoever allegedly called you a misogynistmisandristcommunistcapitalistlasgnacake or whatever other brand of insult that has not been directed towards you in this thread. You are not being insulted and you are certainly not the most logical person in the room for being a holy centrist.
You are antagonizing me right now (and using disqualifying language despite complaining about me doing so), by taking out of context an hyperbolic comment I made to Mergatroid_Jones in regards to my feelings and opinions on why this kind of event is consistently being blown out of proportion by social media at large. Because apparently you needed more arguments to justify being offended by my posts which may betray the thought that you doubt being offended is suitable.
Yes, I believe throwing a lynch mob at Jeremy is stupid and believe to have been proven right by his "pick me up" video closing on 50K views where his usual content rarelly scratches 10K. Does this offend you? Why?
Yes, I believe answering the people who feel the original post was uncomfortable and even draconic with
Also, anyone using "SJW" or the like in their comment or argument regarding this topic cannot be taken seriously.
Is unnecessarily confrontational and tone-setting. Does this offend you? Why?
Jeremy has been shunned by pretty much every post in here as I agree he should be. I disagree with the way some people want to confront him because as evidenced it only makes him more popular among the particular brand of crazy or downthrodden that find comfort in his ramblings. I don't think there is a use to turn this thread into 90 pages about how to respect women because we're just preaching to the choir, nobody here is disrespecting Christine or seems to agree with the possition that harassing a woman about her looks and actions is justified. At most there's a couple confused people who believe her reaction may have been disproportionate, most probably because of their own personal level of tolerance for abuse rather than any sort of systemic mysoginy. But what we do have is a handful of people blaming the problem on maleness as a whole rather than Jeremy's anti-social behavior and (most probably Sargon-coached) cunning in the possitive effects trolling certain people can have for you internet presence. That ultimatedly is spectator-blaming people who weren't even present or aware of Jeremy's bull***** based on their sex, which I believe is equally vile as victim-blaming Christine would be.
In fact I think going back to one of Jay13x's posts
Do we allow open discussion on the issue? There are a lot of problems with that. The biggest one is that we give another platform for those who are not interested in debating in good faith. On some topics, that's a worthwhile risk, but is there really a "harassment is okay" side worth hearing out?
Maybe that side of the argument is in fact worth hearing out, not because we may agree with it but because there is no way people who haven't been correctly socialized (or have been thoroughly marginalized) to the point that they hold such opinions are ever going to change them if they are only allowed to express them where they can find a comfortable echo chamber that doesn't face them with debate and self-confrontation as to why they would even think about harassing certain people.
What do you find terribly objectionable about my evil "fence-sitting" thoughts now?
I was browsing the apocalypse that is the twitter feeds of the involved parties, wedge, jeremy, some jfwong... Mostly just shaking my head at how ridiculous the war was becoming. I think at some point people go to extremes and everybody loses.
But more importantly, I noticed that Jeremy was frequently referred to as "HQ". Presumably because his handle was MTGHeadquarters.
Something about HQ rang a distant bell. Then it struck.
What I replied to did, if you can't see it it's because you're radicalized. Othering is othering, it's toxic and it clouds your mind to your own acts of tribalism.
"Kill all men! Except me, pls".
As foretold.
Considering your previous ridiculous "you're either alt-left or a nazi" strawman I'm not surprised. You really are a fan of constructing your opposition's position for them in an easy-to-knock-down form, aren't you?
-Chandra Nalaar
I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I've only heard the name Christine Sprankle from SCG Twitch streams. I don't watch MTG content on YouTube and know nothing of the parties involved.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a neutral version, just because most people who know the details have already chosen a side that they are adamantly for (and adamantly against the other).
Anyway, I'll try my best with the little that I know:
Anyway, that's as much as I've gathered. I still haven't seen anything indicating of said harassment. I've seen one video of UnsleevedMedia calling out Sprankle and criticizing her, but the other video and his twitter posts have apparently been deleted.
I'd post links and examples, but this thread is being pretty heavily moderated. Warnings/Infractions being dealt out for anything that defends the alleged harasser, questioning whether or not harassment has taken place, asking for examples/proof of said harassment, or using the term "SJW" or "Social Justice Warrior".
I hope I don't get moderated for this, as I've tried my best to be neutral and just stating what I know.
I also requested some sort of clarification/examples of exactly what happened here but have yet to get a response.
If the argument were "If you use the term alt-right your opinion doesn't matter" you would not be defending it. And you may hate us all you want for not picking sides at the drop of a hat, but centrists and moderates at least try to understand problems and their causes before going berserk and giving Jeremy a load of content on a silver platter he wouldn't have avaliable if people hadn't taken the bait.
You don't have to chose to be a madman with an axe or a madman with a cleaver, you can chose to be a surgeon and try to solve things in a way that won't exacerbate other problems.
That's basically my understanding of it and why I'm calling this entire thing a giant mess. It wasn't really even Christine that incited Jeremy directly, either. If I recall it was from some tweets posted by some others that threw the spot light onto Jeremy completely and then this snowballed into what we are seeing now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The short version is that Sprankle has been getting nasty messages from (allegedly) his followers since she opened up her Twitter messages to the public. This has, apparently, gotten even worse since she said that she regretted opening her messages to the public because of lewd messages she got, which led to even worse messages involving death-threats and such. The overall accusation is that these are largely his followers that are doing this, and he is riling them up in his videos and doesn't make any attempt to admonition them. Anyway, his basic opinion of the subject is that Cosplayers women shouldn't have a problem with getting lewd, graphic, violent or nasty messages as they are essentially pornographers, selling sex to young men who just want to get laid and think they have a chance with her. And yes, those are his words on Sprankle, paraphrased slightly. He essentially thinks that what she has been getting is deserved, and she has no right to complain about it. The accusation is that he is intentionally inspiring or directly getting some of his followers to send said messages and the like to here. His defense is that he is not doing this at all, and it's unfair to hold him accountable for what his (alleged) followers do.
That's the short version that brings us up to today. Anyway, for some more indepth discussion on some of the finer details, the spoilered addendum with personal thoughts:
He claims the last time he made a comment about her was 6 months ago, and has given up on it. The problem comes in that this wasn't the case, as he has actually deleted some of the nastier tweets he put out that got his followers riled up within the past few weeks after Sprankle said she regretted making her post public. One of the tweets I personally saw was deriding Sprankle for wearing a NUPE shirt, ala' Spike, Tournament Grinder, calling her a cross-dressing guy and such. Keep in mind, here, that he has stated that Spike being a female is further ruining the game. He also has a video that pretty much says that Cosplayers are terrible, and are not "real" players. Any rational person who has any level of influence over an audience should see the end result of that.
Unfortunately, as I said, he inconveniently deleted this tweet from what I can find.
I'm seriously trying to be fair here, but it's actually really hard with him. He has a serious hate-on for Wedge, TCC, and Sprankle that largely involves some personal drama from a few years ago, and has made a lot of videos on how they are terrible and such. A near obsessive number, to be frank. And I can personally attest to seeing at least some nasty tweets he put out in the timeframe being deleted. I can't provide proof, obviously. It's enough to convince me on the subject, however you'll have to decide whether or not you are convinced I'm telling you the truth.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Thanks buddy. That's a pretty neutral-sounding summary. I just couldn't dig into this today because I've been buy with class.
I know that in our society there is a controversy about how men should organize criticisms of women, especially the on gender and sex reasons. Same when the difference is religion, race, etc. Some think being very rude is fine, others think not. From what little I did see about this case on my own, including reading the thread, a lot of the vocabulary from both sides of this debate are being deployed.
I don't want to hear too much about hearsay, but I have a question - is it thought that women generally feel welcome in the mtg community or do they experience gender problems? It's mostly men playing in the Des Moines and Minneapolis/St. Paul areas.
It's gross, frankly. I'm disappointed that he has so much influence over so many people. Must there really be a culture war to determine whether or not all people get treated fairly? Are some cis white hetero males afraid that elevating others will occur at their detriment? I don't get it. I truly don't.
My 720 Peasant Cube
I had never even heard of the guy before this and it took me less than 20 minutes of google magic to realize he doesn't have the showmanship qualities necessary to sustain a channel, that he's pals with Sargon, and that he had a spike in relevancy when he started claiming he was unfairly blacklisted by WotC because of his opinions and bullying from other MtG content creators. It was immediately evident to me that he wants to force WotC to act against him so that he'll be martirized, that's his only hope of remaining relevant. And we are giving it to him with open hands.
Please learn how to form an argument.
-Chandra Nalaar
Language is contextual. In this case, he wasn't merely commenting on her attractiveness and moving on, but was doing so in order to deride and insult her. I grow wary of these sorts of literal word arguments, as though they mean anything.
There is a school of thinking at the moment that sees equality as a "zero-sum game". Essentially, if one group is getting rights or better treatment, another group must be getting fewer rights or worse treatment. A lot of the anger from these people stems from that. The argument is complete bollocks, but it doesn't stop the people from believing.
For instance, during the arguments over gay marriage, a lot of people at sites like Return of Kings were upset that they were unable to fire someone or kick them out of their business for being gay. They saw the advancement of gay rights as removing their right to fire gay people.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Meanwhile Jeremy got 40k more views than his "review" average thanks to people refusing to face this issue in a moderate way.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I am a nazi marxist, a misandrist mysoginyst, a racist against everyone and a capitalist communist all at the same time because I chose to think in colors other than red and blue.
I remember when I saw this card for the first time I thought, how nice, a representation of a female player. I wonder how violent the opposition will be to this?
They called you out on making non-arguments.
Hypocrisy of the highest caliber given your statements about "we" vs "them" dude. Leave out isms and ologies if you want to make a salient point.
False compromise in this situation.
Conspiratorial thinking not based in reality.
Incoherent rambling.
It's not hard. Make a reasonably succinct point based on evidence dispassionately.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Chose blue pill or red pill, or shut up.
Proving my point.
I remember seeing the card for the first time, and being somewhat annoyed that it's ability didn't follow the trend from the other cards of having a powerful black-bordered effect (And that a Tournament Grinder is getting non-tournament legal cards). Then I saw the art, saw it was female, had no real reaction to the fact it was female because why would I, and moved on. Then I saw that other people were happy it was female, and thought "That's cool", and went on with my day. Because it wasn't important to me that it be depicted a certain way, however I can understand why to some people it would be seen as a nice gesture and I am actually pretty happy when other people are happy, and see no reason to get upset over it at all as it's just a nice gesture. On the list of things that I feel I should get upset over, the fact that Spike is female doesn't even register as something that I *should* be upset about. I honestly do not get the mentality or thought process on this one.
It's so incredibly bizarre to me that anybody cares that it doesn't represent the typical male Spike. It's doubly odd as the outrage is coming from someone who in one breath claims that Wizards shouldn't worry about Gender representation at all, and in the same breath proclaims how unfair this representation is to male players. The line of thinking just doesn't make sense.
Even further than that your rantings about being antagonized or being called a *insert string of negative political labels here* (which absolutely no one here called you, by the way) are unfounded and honestly come off as a sad attempt to make yourself seem like both the victim and as someone who is ostracized because "I just think in a better way than you silly side choosers". The less conversational side of me is honestly very ready to brush this off as more centrist mental masturbatory nonsense but that isn't really what the issue that I've been discussing with you is here. Which, by the way, you did in fact contradict your own line of "non us vs them" thinking by drawing a line between the left and the "moderates". That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
Again, I would suggest that you actually tend to the arguments being made, stop inserting your own narrative in place of other's arguments and leave your mental baggage of what you've argued with in the past at the door because these are different individuals here than whoever allegedly called you a misogynistmisandristcommunistcapitalistlasgnacake or whatever other brand of insult that has not been directed towards you in this thread. You are not being insulted and you are certainly not the most logical person in the room for being a holy centrist.
-Chandra Nalaar
Yes, I believe throwing a lynch mob at Jeremy is stupid and believe to have been proven right by his "pick me up" video closing on 50K views where his usual content rarelly scratches 10K. Does this offend you? Why?
Yes, I believe answering the people who feel the original post was uncomfortable and even draconic with Is unnecessarily confrontational and tone-setting. Does this offend you? Why?
Jeremy has been shunned by pretty much every post in here as I agree he should be. I disagree with the way some people want to confront him because as evidenced it only makes him more popular among the particular brand of crazy or downthrodden that find comfort in his ramblings. I don't think there is a use to turn this thread into 90 pages about how to respect women because we're just preaching to the choir, nobody here is disrespecting Christine or seems to agree with the possition that harassing a woman about her looks and actions is justified. At most there's a couple confused people who believe her reaction may have been disproportionate, most probably because of their own personal level of tolerance for abuse rather than any sort of systemic mysoginy. But what we do have is a handful of people blaming the problem on maleness as a whole rather than Jeremy's anti-social behavior and (most probably Sargon-coached) cunning in the possitive effects trolling certain people can have for you internet presence. That ultimatedly is spectator-blaming people who weren't even present or aware of Jeremy's bull***** based on their sex, which I believe is equally vile as victim-blaming Christine would be.
In fact I think going back to one of Jay13x's posts Maybe that side of the argument is in fact worth hearing out, not because we may agree with it but because there is no way people who haven't been correctly socialized (or have been thoroughly marginalized) to the point that they hold such opinions are ever going to change them if they are only allowed to express them where they can find a comfortable echo chamber that doesn't face them with debate and self-confrontation as to why they would even think about harassing certain people.
What do you find terribly objectionable about my evil "fence-sitting" thoughts now?
But more importantly, I noticed that Jeremy was frequently referred to as "HQ". Presumably because his handle was MTGHeadquarters.
Something about HQ rang a distant bell. Then it struck.
capital offense
I'm sure its just a coincidence.
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