I'm indifferent at best to Jeremy receiving counter-harassment. You can't dish out harassment towards others and then proceed to cry murder when it happens to you. Frankly, I am actually glad that he's getting some kind of push back. He's gone far too long without tasting his own medicine because this community, and WOTC themselves, routinely does more than nothing to him. He's gone after The Professor, he's gone after Wedge, he's gone after Sprankle and many others for a long time. Big figures in our community who have done nothing but spread enjoyment of the game and try to enrich the Magic experience. And we're just going to allow someone to harass them on this level, harassment that has been stated to have caused emotional and psychological trauma? Disgusting.
Ignoring him doesn't work. Wedge and The Professor and Sprankle have tries that for a long time now. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away.
It's about as simple as the basic old axiom we teach to children: Treat others how you want to be treated. Though he may act like a man child, he is a fully formed adult. It would be different if he were apologetic or had a hint of feeling that he's done some amount of wrong or gone too far. He is fully aware of his own actions. If you want to harass others I hope that you get that back ten fold. We don't want you here.
Here's the thing though, that just makes everyone raging hypocrites and shows them acting like petty children. "It's ok if we harass him because he harassed her!" I mean, really? Makes everyone just as bad as he is.
That's, as another user said, a very common fence sitting position and honestly an example of lazy thinking that ignores context.
Example: Person A is minding their own business, harming no one. Person B assaults person A, harming person A. Person C sees this and confronts person B, resulting in person C fighting person A.
This is the situation we're looking at and I find it ridiculous to assert that causing harm to a person who is doing nothing to anyone else and causing harm to said person who is causing harm to others (who are innocent) are "just as bad" as one another. Harsh words and violence are both tools. They may not be nice but they are not wrong in and of themselves. It is the context in which they are used and by whole they are used that determines what her or not their use was appropriate.
As for "being just as bad" as MTGHQ for responding in kind? As someone on Twitter said, that's like saying if someone breaks into your home that you're as bad as them for defending yourself. False equivalency, through and through - a typical tactic and fence-sitter position that has been the leading reason that MTGHQ got as much of a following as he did. Fencesitters who think simply ignoring problems will make them go away are in part responsible for the community getting to the point it has.
Also, anyone using "SJW" or the like in their comment or argument regarding this topic cannot be taken seriously.
No, it's more like if he broke into your house and then you break into theirs in response. Both are wrong.
And anyone discarding someone's opinion because they dare to use the dreaded "SJW" is someone not worth taking seriously.
The term is banned in this thread (and useless as a catch-all insult by 4channers) is that it is impossible to define what a SJW is. Most of the time, I see the term used to describe anyone who stands up for any other person for any reason.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I don't see how a meaningful discussion can be had on this subject without wading into a broader political one. These is a very obvious connection between what's happening in this instance and what's going on with the world at large.
The fundamental problem isn't the targeting of Sprankle with harassment (though that's obviously pretty bad), it's the systemic toxicity in this and other male nerd dominated hobbies that continues unabated. Maybe this is a watershed moment where things will change, but I very much doubt it.
I gonna reiterate one thing: MTG YT community is very very small. When you have 100K subscribers, you are considered big already. This is peanuts in other fandoms.
So as a normal viewer who just wanna watch MTG related content see this unnecessary drama, the name calling, the useless politics rhetoric of both sides, and what emerge in the end is good people leaving and dubious content creators who aren't very good at entertaining or informing staying.
It's quite telling that the community doesn't have the right focus and mind over the situation. Nothing is really solved and the community tries to tackle the bigger picture that we clearly can't grasp and handle instead of just go to the point which is really really small.
please forgive me as i dont live in america so im not fully caught up with what goes on there and what is acceptable or not. in america saying someones attractiveness is a 6 out of 10 is considered harassment?
The reason why "SJW" is being heavily infracted in this thread is because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SITUATION. On one side we have a prominent female cosplayer (and several other respected Magic personalities), and on the other side we have a professional provocateur and bully and his army of trolls. Which side are the SJWs exactly? If the argument is that anyone who stands up against bullying and harassment is a SJW, that's a pretty terrible argument, and there's literally no reason why a blanket pejorative (which is all that SJW really is) should be applied to those people. This is functionally equivalent to lumping everyone who supports a tax cut in with Neo-Nazis.
Future posts mentioning the term SJW, or any variation thereof (or oblique references to it) will be hit as spam.
Future posts deriding "SJW culture" as responsible for this situation will be suspended.
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please forgive me as i dont live in america so im not fully caught up with what goes on there and what is acceptable or not. in america saying someones attractiveness is a 6 out of 10 is considered harassment?
A single pebble is different from an avalanche made up of pebbles.
I began to consider the idea that many human beings are just terrible at empathy, based on what I've seen and heard over the years (both online and IRL), and things like this just re-affirm that to me.
Well, the dust has settled it seems on the entire youtube front. I did go check and his channel is still there, but I haven't seen any new content from him since yesterday. The last post that Jeremy did was forward Seiban leaving MTG due to the community, which makes two people who have now left because of the drama from the weekend. I'm seriously hoping people stop sending the guy death threats because at this rate if this mess keeps snowballing it's just going to make resolving it harder and harder. At least the other youtubers have wisely stopped making more content involving the incident.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, the dust has settled it seems on the entire youtube front. I did go check and his channel is still there, but I haven't seen any new content from him since yesterday. The last post that Jeremy did was forward Seiban leaving MTG due to the community, which makes two people who have now left because of the drama from the weekend. I'm seriously hoping people stop sending the guy death threats because at this rate if this mess keeps snowballing it's just going to make resolving it harder and harder. At least the other youtubers have wisely stopped making more content involving the incident.
Well, the dust has settled it seems on the entire youtube front. I did go check and his channel is still there, but I haven't seen any new content from him since yesterday. The last post that Jeremy did was forward Seiban leaving MTG due to the community, which makes two people who have now left because of the drama from the weekend. I'm seriously hoping people stop sending the guy death threats because at this rate if this mess keeps snowballing it's just going to make resolving it harder and harder. At least the other youtubers have wisely stopped making more content involving the incident.
Wait, Seiben is leaving MTG? But I like Seiben.
He left because of the drama and issues with the MTG community. I'm going to sorely miss the man, but his channel is still going to be alive I think. He was talking about doing pokemon videos and other content. That's the real problem with this entire fiasco, though. It impacted so many major players that I genuinely do not know what Wizards of the Coast is going to do in response. If they pull preview cards and support from all the youtube channels it could be a serious blow against Game Knights and other content creators. What Jeremy did impacted more than Christine.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't see how a meaningful discussion can be had on this subject without wading into a broader political one. These is a very obvious connection between what's happening in this instance and what's going on with the world at large.
The fundamental problem isn't the targeting of Sprankle with harassment (though that's obviously pretty bad), it's the systemic toxicity in this and other male nerd dominated hobbies that continues unabated. Maybe this is a watershed moment where things will change, but I very much doubt it.
please forgive me as i dont live in america so im not fully caught up with what goes on there and what is acceptable or not. in america saying someones attractiveness is a 6 out of 10 is considered harassment?
A person who is 6/10 isn't in regards to their attractiveness, it's in regards to their value or their input into a discussion. Essentially when a person is called a 6/10, it means they can be ignored or it's a person of slight intelligence. Basically it's an attack on a persons own intelligence. Regardless of it's usage, it's very derogatory as it puts down the person and, probably, flags a person for other members to ignore and skip over.
Strangely, a person who is an 8/10 is related to their attractiveness. It is someone who is hot enough to slip into bed with but not hot enough to be sexiest person of whatever. It too is derogatory but in a different context. It is the equivalent of a cat call or wolf whistle.
...is that it is impossible to define what a SJW is. Most of the time, I see the term used to describe anyone who stands up for any other person for any reason.
Ain't it the truth. It's just a way to invalidate anyone for standing up for something they believe to be correct or just, usually in defense of something or someone.
Anyway, I really thought we were better than this as a community, but there is still a lot of work to be done. I really don't like how the internet has let us become anonymous rage monsters. Jeremy's behavior is indefensible, but his followers, and many opponents for that matter, adopt a venomous scorched earth policy that includes such extremes as death threats. This is insane! Open discourse is the key here, mainly in how we deliver the the message to Jeremy that we find his antics repugnant. Death threats and harassment are not the way.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
Last I checked, MTGSalvation was not an entity of the US goverment, hence you have no freedom of speech here.
A millennial says what?
But yeah, hypothesis* confirmed - accused of many infractions convicted of one totally bogus charge (spam). This thread is a sting. (But for the record, I'm against harassing, bullying, misogyny, etc.)
*Mods have created a safe space within a safe space (MTGS).
It's something everyone's heard before, but I really think polarisation is a huge part of how these things get out of hand.
As soon as it's about sides, about people who believe X or Y, about whether or believe or not, these things spiral out of control. Because that's rarely an accurate look at the issue. There's almost always middle ground and there's definitely always room for some skepticism- you can reserve some amount of judgement.
This is very important to claims about harassment. We don't have to just accept everything or deny everything, nor do we have to accept or deny everything to the same extent. It's clear in this situation that harassment has occurred, but what exactly has happened, seems to be not entirely knowable. We can listen to claims that we can't fully substantiate without ignoring the limitation of evidence, it just means we have to apply a certain amount of skepticism and be open to the possibilities. I would say, the default position should be to believe claims of harassment, and we should err toward doing so until further doubt is placed.
In this situation, I think Jeremy has on balance ultimately provided further reason to believe all the claims of harassment, because of how defensive he is about it, and how quick he has been to respond with further attacks. On the biggest problems here is I think Jeremy is dragging other people down with him, he's intensifying the polarisation, continuing to make political references and talk about extremes like fabrication of evidence, that encourage people who are feeling doubt about the claims made to simply dive into his end or else they end up on the other. The more the other end does the same, the more the problem accentuates and the issue is made much more dense with so much baggage.
...is that it is impossible to define what a SJW is. Most of the time, I see the term used to describe anyone who stands up for any other person for any reason.
Ain't it the truth. It's just a way to invalidate anyone for standing up for something they believe to be correct or just, usually in defense of something or someone.
Anyway, I really thought we were better than this as a community, but there is still a lot of work to be done. I really don't like how the internet has let us become anonymous rage monsters. Jeremy's behavior is indefensible, but his followers, and many opponents for that matter, adopt a venomous scorched earth policy that includes such extremes as death threats. This is insane! Open discourse is the key here, mainly in how we deliver the the message to Jeremy that we find his antics repugnant. Death threats and harassment are not the way.
The anonymity itself may be part of the problem. It's startlingly easy to be an ******* to a total stranger when you don't have a face to look at.
That's not to say that people don't bully or harass others IRL, but anonymity makes it all the easier when you don't have to see the impact of your words in someone's face.
You're right, last time I applied to join Suzy's sewing circle she laughed and called me a beta male cuck.
Sure, it's more fundamentally correct to say that it's the systemic toxicity in this and other hobbies dominated by an insular, powerful group, but let's not equivocate. The specific problem in this instance with this individual and others like him is toxic masculinity full stop.
A single pebble is different from an avalanche made up of pebbles.
what does that mean?
A person who is 6/10 isn't in regards to their attractiveness, it's in regards to their value or their input into a discussion. Essentially when a person is called a 6/10, it means they can be ignored or it's a person of slight intelligence. Basically it's an attack on a persons own intelligence. Regardless of it's usage, it's very derogatory as it puts down the person and, probably, flags a person for other members to ignore and skip over.
Strangely, a person who is an 8/10 is related to their attractiveness. It is someone who is hot enough to slip into bed with but not hot enough to be sexiest person of whatever. It too is derogatory but in a different context. It is the equivalent of a cat call or wolf whistle.
is that real or just your opinion because it has no logic. a 6 is relates to intelligence but 8 relates to appearance? what is 7?
Well great, people are being played hardcore now on this. So, Jeremy just posted a bunch of stuff that is going to rile up all these one dimensional emotionally charged youtube vigilantes and make it harder to get this resolved. Now he's saying Jimmy Wong has attacked him, says the professors video is a bunch of clips taken out of context (I literally watched all of the offending video footage, it isn't), and I don't even recall the rest of it.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I am going to say this, more like Ilya Bryzgalov is going to say this about all parties in this mess.
Quote from Ilya Bryzgalov »
I don't know, right now, as I'm very into the universe, you know, like how it was created, and you know, like what is it, you know, the solar system is so humongous big, right? But if you see the, like, our solar system and the, our, galaxy, and like, on the side, you know, like, and it was so small, you couldn't even see it. Our galaxy is, like, huge, but if you see the big picture, our galaxy is like, so tiny, like, dot in the universe, and you think, like, and we have some problems here in the Earth to worry about, compared to, like, nothing. Just be happy. Don't worry, be happy right now.
Things get blown out of proportion in MTG, but when it comes to the NHL, we get this:
Here is a John Tortorella quote. The situation is the opposing coach is mouthing off to one of Tortorella's players. Just imagine Jeremy is the opposing coach, and Sprankle is one of Tortorella's players.
Quote from John Tortorella »
When it comes to a coach to an opposing player, it's disrespectful and it's wrong. It's gutless. That's gotta stop. Park your ego, shove it in your pocket. It's about the two teams. I'm not in a battle, he's not in a battle, shut your yap.
Then we have the whole Cam Newton female reporter thing. At least he apologized for it.
I just wish that Jeremy went back to how he was back in 2012, when he first started doing MTG Youtube. It seems that money is the root of all evil.
Can someone please give me a neutral short-version of the story? I've never heard of Sprankle, don't follow the cosplay scene, and don't watch mtg content on YouTube.
is that real or just your opinion because it has no logic. a 6 is relates to intelligence but 8 relates to appearance? what is 7?
Don't look at me, I didn't make this garbage up. I infer the meanings from forums, tweets, coworkers, whatever.
To answer your question. 7/10 refers to (as I know it) as hash oil. It spells OIL upside down. This differs from 4/20 (or more concretely), 4:20, Marijuana.
This might go without saying, but I'd advise people to not read the comments on Prof's video if you want to maintain your faith in humanity (regardless of your position).
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Example: Person A is minding their own business, harming no one. Person B assaults person A, harming person A. Person C sees this and confronts person B, resulting in person C fighting person A.
This is the situation we're looking at and I find it ridiculous to assert that causing harm to a person who is doing nothing to anyone else and causing harm to said person who is causing harm to others (who are innocent) are "just as bad" as one another. Harsh words and violence are both tools. They may not be nice but they are not wrong in and of themselves. It is the context in which they are used and by whole they are used that determines what her or not their use was appropriate.
-Chandra Nalaar
The term is banned in this thread (and useless as a catch-all insult by 4channers) is that it is impossible to define what a SJW is. Most of the time, I see the term used to describe anyone who stands up for any other person for any reason.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Enhance.
The plot thickens!
I don't see how a meaningful discussion can be had on this subject without wading into a broader political one. These is a very obvious connection between what's happening in this instance and what's going on with the world at large.
The fundamental problem isn't the targeting of Sprankle with harassment (though that's obviously pretty bad), it's the systemic toxicity in this and other male nerd dominated hobbies that continues unabated. Maybe this is a watershed moment where things will change, but I very much doubt it.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
So as a normal viewer who just wanna watch MTG related content see this unnecessary drama, the name calling, the useless politics rhetoric of both sides, and what emerge in the end is good people leaving and dubious content creators who aren't very good at entertaining or informing staying.
It's quite telling that the community doesn't have the right focus and mind over the situation. Nothing is really solved and the community tries to tackle the bigger picture that we clearly can't grasp and handle instead of just go to the point which is really really small.
Future posts mentioning the term SJW, or any variation thereof (or oblique references to it) will be hit as spam.
Future posts deriding "SJW culture" as responsible for this situation will be suspended.
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Anything male-dominated, really. It's not limited to nerds and it's not limited to hobbies.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Wait, Seiben is leaving MTG? But I like Seiben.
He left because of the drama and issues with the MTG community. I'm going to sorely miss the man, but his channel is still going to be alive I think. He was talking about doing pokemon videos and other content. That's the real problem with this entire fiasco, though. It impacted so many major players that I genuinely do not know what Wizards of the Coast is going to do in response. If they pull preview cards and support from all the youtube channels it could be a serious blow against Game Knights and other content creators. What Jeremy did impacted more than Christine.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is not a male thing, it is a human thing.
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"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
A person who is 6/10 isn't in regards to their attractiveness, it's in regards to their value or their input into a discussion. Essentially when a person is called a 6/10, it means they can be ignored or it's a person of slight intelligence. Basically it's an attack on a persons own intelligence. Regardless of it's usage, it's very derogatory as it puts down the person and, probably, flags a person for other members to ignore and skip over.
Strangely, a person who is an 8/10 is related to their attractiveness. It is someone who is hot enough to slip into bed with but not hot enough to be sexiest person of whatever. It too is derogatory but in a different context. It is the equivalent of a cat call or wolf whistle.
Ain't it the truth. It's just a way to invalidate anyone for standing up for something they believe to be correct or just, usually in defense of something or someone.
Anyway, I really thought we were better than this as a community, but there is still a lot of work to be done. I really don't like how the internet has let us become anonymous rage monsters. Jeremy's behavior is indefensible, but his followers, and many opponents for that matter, adopt a venomous scorched earth policy that includes such extremes as death threats. This is insane! Open discourse is the key here, mainly in how we deliver the the message to Jeremy that we find his antics repugnant. Death threats and harassment are not the way.
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A millennial says what?
But yeah, hypothesis* confirmed - accused of many infractions convicted of one totally bogus charge (spam). This thread is a sting. (But for the record, I'm against harassing, bullying, misogyny, etc.)
*Mods have created a safe space within a safe space (MTGS).
As soon as it's about sides, about people who believe X or Y, about whether or believe or not, these things spiral out of control. Because that's rarely an accurate look at the issue. There's almost always middle ground and there's definitely always room for some skepticism- you can reserve some amount of judgement.
This is very important to claims about harassment. We don't have to just accept everything or deny everything, nor do we have to accept or deny everything to the same extent. It's clear in this situation that harassment has occurred, but what exactly has happened, seems to be not entirely knowable. We can listen to claims that we can't fully substantiate without ignoring the limitation of evidence, it just means we have to apply a certain amount of skepticism and be open to the possibilities. I would say, the default position should be to believe claims of harassment, and we should err toward doing so until further doubt is placed.
In this situation, I think Jeremy has on balance ultimately provided further reason to believe all the claims of harassment, because of how defensive he is about it, and how quick he has been to respond with further attacks. On the biggest problems here is I think Jeremy is dragging other people down with him, he's intensifying the polarisation, continuing to make political references and talk about extremes like fabrication of evidence, that encourage people who are feeling doubt about the claims made to simply dive into his end or else they end up on the other. The more the other end does the same, the more the problem accentuates and the issue is made much more dense with so much baggage.
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The anonymity itself may be part of the problem. It's startlingly easy to be an ******* to a total stranger when you don't have a face to look at.
That's not to say that people don't bully or harass others IRL, but anonymity makes it all the easier when you don't have to see the impact of your words in someone's face.
Sure, it's more fundamentally correct to say that it's the systemic toxicity in this and other hobbies dominated by an insular, powerful group, but let's not equivocate. The specific problem in this instance with this individual and others like him is toxic masculinity full stop.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
what does that mean?
is that real or just your opinion because it has no logic. a 6 is relates to intelligence but 8 relates to appearance? what is 7?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Things get blown out of proportion in MTG, but when it comes to the NHL, we get this:
Here is a John Tortorella quote. The situation is the opposing coach is mouthing off to one of Tortorella's players. Just imagine Jeremy is the opposing coach, and Sprankle is one of Tortorella's players.
Then we have the whole Cam Newton female reporter thing. At least he apologized for it.
I just wish that Jeremy went back to how he was back in 2012, when he first started doing MTG Youtube. It seems that money is the root of all evil.
Don't look at me, I didn't make this garbage up. I infer the meanings from forums, tweets, coworkers, whatever.
To answer your question. 7/10 refers to (as I know it) as hash oil. It spells OIL upside down. This differs from 4/20 (or more concretely), 4:20, Marijuana.
Seriously,I don't make it up.