I'm sure you're all familiar with the lawsuit that took place last year where a group of Magic judges decided to sue Wizards of the Coast over lost wages that was recently dismissed by a California Federal Judge. According to Rudy from Alpha Investments, Wizards of the Coast is now under threat of yet another lawsuit that could put the company out of business If they publicly acknowledge that they've been purposely manufacturing warped cards and faulty products.
One of my friends thinks this is more of a systemic problem within the company and their employees to the point where it could spiral out of control and ultimately discontinue Magic in the process. Card value would plummet to the point where nobody would want to touch a Magic card ever again let alone have any incentive to play the game anymore since there would be a mass exodus of players and collectors selling off their Magic cards on eBay and other venues.
I'm curious as to what you guys think of all this, is this something we should all be concerned about?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
On one hand, I want better quality card stock in the states so I don't have to pay for cards with better card stock out of country.
On the other hand, I don't want MTG to shutdown.
Magic The Gathering will be fine no matter what as the franchise and card game are too lucrative to pass up. The only thing in jeopardy is Wizards of the Coast and potentially all the other product lines they make... which I think still includes D&D 5th ed. Given how bad the last two years have been I have no qualms or tears if Wizards doors were shuttered and their properties sold off. Even Hasbro would be giving more people what they want right now than Wizards of the Coast. Rudy didn't point out anything that people didn't know about before already or were postulating. Just look at how many products they are throwing out there to finish off the quarter right now and how much they are "trying" to appeal to older players with a return to dominaria set and double masters for reprints. The company tried a new direction, found it didn't work, and in the meantime also ended up selling people faulty products thanks to a horrible printing process. The only thing the company legal team can do against the card bending issue is buy time via misdirection.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Card warping is not something new. I got warped cards taken from boosters as ancient as Coldsnap.
Obviously nobody likes their new cards to come out warped, but I wonder how big of an issue this really is, and how fair the complaints are.
This kind of criticism now coming from Rudy does not surprised me. Lately he expressed his desire to see the Reserved List expanded, and if Wizards had to close doors, that means ALL cards are placed on the Reserved List, and the prices of cards then could go the same way artistic pieces go when the artist dies.
I know there are people who wouldn’t like Wizards to shut down, but when you’re someone with no interest in the game of Magic other than making a profit out of it, and if you’re sitting on hundreds and hundreds of boxes of old cards waiting for the boxes prices to go up and make a profit, the idea of Wizards shutting down is very appealing.
Rudy may be entertaining to watch, but let’s not forget what he’s really all about.
The reserved list is a mistake because it prevents a card from being reprinted entirely. I'm actually pro for a soft list that time locks a look of a card. I think what makes cards unique is the artwork and frame so as long as those differ and are done in a way that makes them timeless, we have effectively a solution for players and collectors/investors.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
According to Rudy from Alpha Investments, Wizards of the Coast is now under threat of yet another lawsuit that could put the company out of business If they publicly acknowledge that they've been purposely manufacturing warped cards and faulty products.
Linked article has nothing to do with card manufacture. It only talks about people complaining about pro players getting less money in appearance fees (and says that decision was reversed), and the Judges lawsuits.
Additionally, Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the card manufacture. For the majority of the world, that's Cartamundi.
Card warping is not something new. I got warped cards taken from boosters as ancient as Coldsnap.
Obviously nobody likes their new cards to come out warped, but I wonder how big of an issue this really is, and how fair the complaints are.
This kind of criticism now coming from Rudy does not surprised me. Lately he expressed his desire to see the Reserved List expanded, and if Wizards had to close doors, that means ALL cards are placed on the Reserved List, and the prices of cards then could go the same way artistic pieces go when the artist dies.
I know there are people who wouldn’t like Wizards to shut down, but when you’re someone with no interest in the game of Magic other than making a profit out of it, and if you’re sitting on hundreds and hundreds of boxes of old cards waiting for the boxes prices to go up and make a profit, the idea of Wizards shutting down is very appealing.
Rudy may be entertaining to watch, but let’s not forget what he’s really all about.
Yeah, I saw that title on his video and it ticked me off so much that I haven't watched it yet. He's not the first either. I read an article from a year or two ago essentially arguing the same thing. People like him are painful reminders why Moat is over $500.
I hope WotC doesn't shutdown for exactly the reason you describe. But, I have a lot of mixed feelings about the potential for this. Magic isn't Monopoly (the board game) yet, but I was kind of hoping it would turn into one.
Card warping is not something new. I got warped cards taken from boosters as ancient as Coldsnap.
Obviously nobody likes their new cards to come out warped, but I wonder how big of an issue this really is, and how fair the complaints are.
This kind of criticism now coming from Rudy does not surprised me. Lately he expressed his desire to see the Reserved List expanded, and if Wizards had to close doors, that means ALL cards are placed on the Reserved List, and the prices of cards then could go the same way artistic pieces go when the artist dies.
I know there are people who wouldn’t like Wizards to shut down, but when you’re someone with no interest in the game of Magic other than making a profit out of it, and if you’re sitting on hundreds and hundreds of boxes of old cards waiting for the boxes prices to go up and make a profit, the idea of Wizards shutting down is very appealing.
Rudy may be entertaining to watch, but let’s not forget what he’s really all about.
Yeah, I saw that title on his video and it ticked me off so much that I haven't watched it yet. He's not the first either. I read an article from a year or two ago essentially arguing the same thing. People like him are painful reminders why Moat is over $500.
I hope WotC doesn't shutdown for exactly the reason you describe. But, I have a lot of mixed feelings about the potential for this. Magic isn't Monopoly (the board game) yet, but I was kind of hoping it would turn into one.
I watched his video to get his perspective and reasoning on why he wanted the expanded list. His logic makes sense that it would create a release valve on some older cards and maybe build confidence in purchases, but it also completely devastates the format those cards get played in.
On the subject of card printings, it doesn't matter if cartmundi made the cards in this case because wizards is the one who decided to sell the product. That's why they are in deep water right now and will be until this entire situation is corrected.
Heck even if they fix things going forward nothing is going to get this skeleton out of the closet completely.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Stop and think of the volume of product opened...and think about how many of these "defects" actually impact tournament legality. This is a very drastic over reaction to a company hitting really not so big speed bumps.
The judge lawsuit does not impact the majority of the player base...that plays casually and at FNM from time to time. Could it have been handled better? Eh probably always the case but you will find that in ANY work environment.
The printing issues are not wotc, it's the manufacturer...and there are only so many to choose from that have the infrastructure in place to produce the required volume. They've used other manufacturers and had defects. Heck, some defects are even worth more than the original because there are collectors specifically for that. You got what you got. You have an issue with quality, go build a printing business the size of cartomundi and win the contract from wizards...gl.
The pro players getting all pissy about pay? Sure if you want an e sport you have to support the players via winnings at the upper crust. I kinda get this one. Many of these guys can't hold a full time job AND travel the globe competing for crumbs. If you don't pursue this game as a full time source of income or never plan to, complain about something else.
The recent bannings were an R & D goof, which has happened throughout the entire life of the game. Mistakes like this are why the freaking reserved list is such a contentious hot point - some of those cards are busted and now scarce. This isn't a bad thing, as pushing the envelope keeps packs cracking and the company profitable. Some of these are begun impacting formats outside of standard, like saheeli or the commands from khans for example.
The volume of masters sets is the company differentiating its product base and searching for a market equilibirum. They are trying to impact suppply without throwing demand haywire because LGSs depend on them to not screw things up. If I can get a horizon canopy for half the price, my LGS sells new product or even old inventory they've stored for literally decades, and wotc makes money wtf would I complain about this. Don't buy the product...go buy singles at a now cheaper price. Arguments against this literally make zero sense to me. If the market is flooded we'll see chronicles happen all over again...guess what...where not there yet. Chronicles also didn't kill wotc.
Wizards isn't going to close shop. These are, in all honesty, not that important to the majority of players. You wanna jam smugglers copters against an emrakul the promised with crimped edges or ink bleeds in a FFA kitchen table duel with friends...you're free to do so. Literally nothing on this list significantly impacts that customer, and it is a plentiful customer. The game feels more widely played and enjoyed to me than ever before imo. I've been playing casually to competive for 15 years now.
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Card warping is not something new. I got warped cards taken from boosters as ancient as Coldsnap.
Obviously nobody likes their new cards to come out warped, but I wonder how big of an issue this really is, and how fair the complaints are.
This kind of criticism now coming from Rudy does not surprised me. Lately he expressed his desire to see the Reserved List expanded, and if Wizards had to close doors, that means ALL cards are placed on the Reserved List, and the prices of cards then could go the same way artistic pieces go when the artist dies.
I know there are people who wouldn’t like Wizards to shut down, but when you’re someone with no interest in the game of Magic other than making a profit out of it, and if you’re sitting on hundreds and hundreds of boxes of old cards waiting for the boxes prices to go up and make a profit, the idea of Wizards shutting down is very appealing.
Rudy may be entertaining to watch, but let’s not forget what he’s really all about.
Yeah, I saw that title on his video and it ticked me off so much that I haven't watched it yet. He's not the first either. I read an article from a year or two ago essentially arguing the same thing. People like him are painful reminders why Moat is over $500.
I hope WotC doesn't shutdown for exactly the reason you describe. But, I have a lot of mixed feelings about the potential for this. Magic isn't Monopoly (the board game) yet, but I was kind of hoping it would turn into one.
I watched his video to get his perspective and reasoning on why he wanted the expanded list. His logic makes sense that it would create a release valve on some older cards and maybe build confidence in purchases, but it also completely devastates the format those cards get played in.
On the subject of card printings, it doesn't matter if cartmundi made the cards in this case because wizards is the one who decided to sell the product. That's why they are in deep water right now and will be until this entire situation is corrected.
Heck even if they fix things going forward nothing is going to get this skeleton out of the closet completely.
I think Rudy straight up admitted that he doesn't play Magic.
To that end, it seems that Rudy is a good example of the contradictory desires of investors and the needs of players.
What's the problem? Some complaints we're all familiar with? What's the basis of a lawsuit, the proposition that WOTC's business practices are illegal if it jeopardizes the value of the product on the secondary market? Get out of here.
What's the problem? Some complaints we're all familiar with? What's the basis of a lawsuit, the proposition that WOTC's business practices are illegal if it jeopardizes the value of the product on the secondary market? Get out of here.
The problem Wizards of the Coast potentially has is the alligation of knowingly selling consumers a faulty product. This is actually a very real threat because the sheer volume of bent and rapidly bending cards that came out of packs of Amonkhet and HOU. Assuming Rudy's source gets validated, that alone is probably enough to cause a very high impact lawsuit that could cost wizards everything.
As for whether that law suit happens, it really depends on how happy consumers are with the company as a whole and if they are willing to let them have a chance to fix their problems. I feel that they may have turned things around with Iconic Masters given the cards I've seen come out of the packs thus far. Regardless, I'm at the point with Wizards that if they got tanked I wouldn't really shed a tear. I feel other card game companies give their players a lot more for a lot less and the only reason this is the case is because people let wizards get away with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Have you ever tried playing with a deck where some cards are bent, and some cards are straight? I know a way to get unfair advantage. Get basic lands from older sets, where the cards are straight, and the rest of the cards from newer sets, where the card bend. You would immediately know which cards are your basic lands, and which cards are not. You could sleeve your deck, and you could still tell which are basic lands and which are not.
I feel other card game companies give their players a lot more for a lot less and the only reason this is the case is because people let wizards get away with it.
Pokemon TCG booster packs have a code card that redeems a booster pack online, and the price remains the same.
WOTC is thinking of adding redemption codes to future booster packs, and increasing the price because of it.
Pokemon Company recently decided to include a basic energy card in each pack, in addition to the 10 cards in the pack. Each pack is advertised as a 10 card booster pack, but has 11 cards because of the energy.
WOTC a while back decided to replace a common card with a basic land, advertising it as a 15 card booster pack. There are 14 cards + 1 basic land in each pack.
Pokemon TCG and Yugioh both include guaranteed foils in each pack, and keep the price of the packs the same.
MTG won't include guaranteed foils in packs unless they raise the price of it.
The one WOTC decision I hated was when they changed Theme Decks into Intro Packs.
WOTC is the company, out of WOTC, Konami, and Pokemon Company, that jacks up the price of the most products by adding booster packs. Look at the evolution of the fat pack, now bundle, and the number of packs, and how much it cost over the years.
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Have you ever tried playing with a deck where some cards are bent, and some cards are straight? I know a way to get unfair advantage. Get basic lands from older sets, where the cards are straight, and the rest of the cards from newer sets, where the card bend. You would immediately know which cards are your basic lands, and which cards are not. You could sleeve your deck, and you could still tell which are basic lands and which are not.
Heck, even without the bending some of the newer cards don't exactly mesh well with the older ones. The newer cards from I think kaladesh and up are a tad thinner, and while the sleeves do help a lot, they still stand out when I try to mix them with cards from Scars block or earlier.
My own gripes with Wizards since I've come back is their push towards dividing the playerbase between standard and modern by pushing two different sets of cards instead of printing good cards in standard as a rule. Not to mention I don't think wizards set developers even know what cards really stick with players. No one is going to remember Reave Soul, but people will definitely remember Giant Growth.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Have you ever tried playing with a deck where some cards are bent, and some cards are straight? I know a way to get unfair advantage. Get basic lands from older sets, where the cards are straight, and the rest of the cards from newer sets, where the card bend. You would immediately know which cards are your basic lands, and which cards are not. You could sleeve your deck, and you could still tell which are basic lands and which are not.
Heck, even without the bending some of the newer cards don't exactly mesh well with the older ones. The newer cards from I think kaladesh and up are a tad thinner, and while the sleeves do help a lot, they still stand out when I try to mix them with cards from Scars block or earlier.
That is like when a goaltender has some nights where he stops every shot, and some nights where he lets in a lot of pucks. Ok, not really. I do not like inconsistent cards as much as I do not like inconsistent goaltending.
My favorite era of MTG was between 2001 to 2008. That was the era when Yugioh was number 1. Now that MTG is number 1, for a while, WOTC has made a lot of decisions that I do not agree with, mainly the changing of the theme deck to intro pack, and when I finally got used to the intro pack, they change it again to planeswalker deck. Again, inconsistent. It's not like there was anything wrong with theme decks. You know what WOTC should have done? Release a theme deck, and a planeswalker pack. A theme deck is just your typical 60 card deck, no planeswalker. A planeswalker pack is a box set containing a theme deck, a legitimate planeswalker, and a couple of cards exclusive to the box set, and 2 boosters. That way, I have the option of buying the deck for $10, or the planeswalker pack for $15.
It happens to every company. A startup company seems nice and seems like it is the best company in the world. Once they find success, they make greedy decisions. Pokemon Company is giving more for less because they are not the #1 TCG right now.
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Have you ever tried playing with a deck where some cards are bent, and some cards are straight? I know a way to get unfair advantage. Get basic lands from older sets, where the cards are straight, and the rest of the cards from newer sets, where the card bend. You would immediately know which cards are your basic lands, and which cards are not. You could sleeve your deck, and you could still tell which are basic lands and which are not.
Heck, even without the bending some of the newer cards don't exactly mesh well with the older ones. The newer cards from I think kaladesh and up are a tad thinner, and while the sleeves do help a lot, they still stand out when I try to mix them with cards from Scars block or earlier.
My own gripes with Wizards since I've come back is their push towards dividing the playerbase between standard and modern by pushing two different sets of cards instead of printing good cards in standard as a rule. Not to mention I don't think wizards set developers even know what cards really stick with players. No one is going to remember Reave Soul, but people will definitely remember Giant Growth.
Many of the newer cards I cracked from packs since Shadows Over Innistrad, the set I decide to return to Magic, is bending inside their sleeves. I mixed my newer bulks with my older bulks before I realized the newer cards are warping my older cards. To combat the bowing, I've taken to alternating my cards in my box, like this )()()()(, double carding in penny sleeves duplicates and packing the cards a little tighter than I normally would. In addition, I had to make U shaped labels out of paper stock in order to tease out enough cards to access the rest of the box without damaging cards. I didn't notice how serious it was until about two months ago when I went to add new bulks.
When I looked at my decks (about two or three weeks ago) a bit closer, I noticed that I could spot, and pick out, some of the more recent vintage cards. Aaaagghhh....
All this to shave 1/4-penny per card during manufacture?
A major PITFA.
I read somewhere, forget where, that WotC claimed that the older cards are thicker because they had time to absorb more moisture from the air. OK, fair enough, so is it worth pointing out that prior to the introduction of FOILS, I never ever had a card bow like they do now? So foils were introduced and they bent like crazy. Some so bad, I had to store them in heavy school text books. I quit before WotC fixed them and I come back to find even the new cards bend.
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Have you ever tried playing with a deck where some cards are bent, and some cards are straight? I know a way to get unfair advantage. Get basic lands from older sets, where the cards are straight, and the rest of the cards from newer sets, where the card bend. You would immediately know which cards are your basic lands, and which cards are not. You could sleeve your deck, and you could still tell which are basic lands and which are not.
I play 4x Hidden Stockpile and 4x Fatal Push in my Modern Tokens deck and they're undistinguishable from the older cards. I use Matte Dragon Shield sleeves.
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Have you ever tried playing with a deck where some cards are bent, and some cards are straight? I know a way to get unfair advantage. Get basic lands from older sets, where the cards are straight, and the rest of the cards from newer sets, where the card bend. You would immediately know which cards are your basic lands, and which cards are not. You could sleeve your deck, and you could still tell which are basic lands and which are not.
I play 4x Hidden Stockpile and 4x Fatal Push in my Modern Tokens deck and they're undistinguishable from the older cards. I use Matte Dragon Shield sleeves.
I've tried Dragon sleeves and double sleeved in KMCs and I always notice a difference, at least when cards start going into Amonkhet. Aether Revolt was a mixed experience. Some of the cards feel okay, others are noticeable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What's the problem? Some complaints we're all familiar with? What's the basis of a lawsuit, the proposition that WOTC's business practices are illegal if it jeopardizes the value of the product on the secondary market? Get out of here.
The problem Wizards of the Coast potentially has is the alligation of knowingly selling consumers a faulty product. This is actually a very real threat because the sheer volume of bent and rapidly bending cards that came out of packs of Amonkhet and HOU. Assuming Rudy's source gets validated, that alone is probably enough to cause a very high impact lawsuit that could cost wizards everything.
As for whether that law suit happens, it really depends on how happy consumers are with the company as a whole and if they are willing to let them have a chance to fix their problems. I feel that they may have turned things around with Iconic Masters given the cards I've seen come out of the packs thus far. Regardless, I'm at the point with Wizards that if they got tanked I wouldn't really shed a tear. I feel other card game companies give their players a lot more for a lot less and the only reason this is the case is because people let wizards get away with it.
I would hardly call a low-quality (debatable point) product faulty. Perhaps to save money WOTC developed a lower-cost, lower-quality product. This changes the value proposition and might lead to lost revenues, but hardly the basis for a lawsuit.
What's to say that these cards won't continue bending over time? It will mean if you play modern, you can totally tell which set the cards come from, even if they are sleeved, and there is absolutely no way to sleeve a curled up card.
Maybe WOTC should print all future cards to be bending over time hahaha. That way you know it is legitimate because the real ones bend, and the fake ones don't.
Quality of US cards is terrible compared to the EU cards.
So that tells its own story.
Case in point, Force of Will TCG. Then again we're also talking about another company with incompetent development staff who just fired their English Manager/Translator recently.
Magic The Gathering will be fine no matter what as the franchise and card game are too lucrative to pass up. The only thing in jeopardy is Wizards of the Coast and potentially all the other product lines they make... which I think still includes D&D 5th ed. Given how bad the last two years have been I have no qualms or tears if Wizards doors were shuttered and their properties sold off. Even Hasbro would be giving more people what they want right now than Wizards of the Coast. Rudy didn't point out anything that people didn't know about before already or were postulating. Just look at how many products they are throwing out there to finish off the quarter right now and how much they are "trying" to appeal to older players with a return to dominaria set and double masters for reprints. The company tried a new direction, found it didn't work, and in the meantime also ended up selling people faulty products thanks to a horrible printing process. The only thing the company legal team can do against the card bending issue is buy time via misdirection.
The idea of Wizards of the Coast selling the Magic: The Gathering IP to Hasbro is the equivalent of George Lucas selling the Star Wars IP to Disney. Hasbro pushed Wizards of the Coast into trying to promote Kaijudo which they didn't want to have anything to do with while Duel Masters was released at a time when Yu-Gi-Oh! was still relatively balanced before Konami was able to exploit the game's lack of a resource system to the point of no return.
The reserved list is a mistake because it prevents a card from being reprinted entirely. I'm actually pro for a soft list that time locks a look of a card. I think what makes cards unique is the artwork and frame so as long as those differ and are done in a way that makes them timeless, we have effectively a solution for players and collectors/investors.
It could be worse granted they do rescind the Reserved List and get sued by the collectors citing the Secondary Market value in a court of law, thus acknowledging the Secondary Market value of cards, which would lead to Magic: The Gathering being classified as Gambling, thus becoming illegal to sell to minors. Yeah, gambling laws are still a thing.
Perhaps the real reason why Cartamundi has been printing low quality cards on purpose is due to putting pressure on Wizards of the Coast to rescind the Reserved List and will only stop If they comply with their demands. Whether or not If this is the WotC Employees and Insiders' doing I'm not sure but I wouldn't put it past me If they did.
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
Except the product is faulty because in order to play Magic the cards have to be as flat as possible in order to prevent cheating and manipulation. Apparently Wizards of the Coast promotes cheating since they allowed Alex Bertoncini to cheat in more Magic tournaments. The lower quality paper is so bad that the counterfeit quality for them is actually higher than the current quality of Magic cards. Not even holo-stamp foils are safe.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
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I'm sure you're all familiar with the lawsuit that took place last year where a group of Magic judges decided to sue Wizards of the Coast over lost wages that was recently dismissed by a California Federal Judge. According to Rudy from Alpha Investments, Wizards of the Coast is now under threat of yet another lawsuit that could put the company out of business If they publicly acknowledge that they've been purposely manufacturing warped cards and faulty products.
One of my friends thinks this is more of a systemic problem within the company and their employees to the point where it could spiral out of control and ultimately discontinue Magic in the process. Card value would plummet to the point where nobody would want to touch a Magic card ever again let alone have any incentive to play the game anymore since there would be a mass exodus of players and collectors selling off their Magic cards on eBay and other venues.
I'm curious as to what you guys think of all this, is this something we should all be concerned about?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
On the other hand, I don't want MTG to shutdown.
So that tells its own story.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Obviously nobody likes their new cards to come out warped, but I wonder how big of an issue this really is, and how fair the complaints are.
This kind of criticism now coming from Rudy does not surprised me. Lately he expressed his desire to see the Reserved List expanded, and if Wizards had to close doors, that means ALL cards are placed on the Reserved List, and the prices of cards then could go the same way artistic pieces go when the artist dies.
I know there are people who wouldn’t like Wizards to shut down, but when you’re someone with no interest in the game of Magic other than making a profit out of it, and if you’re sitting on hundreds and hundreds of boxes of old cards waiting for the boxes prices to go up and make a profit, the idea of Wizards shutting down is very appealing.
Rudy may be entertaining to watch, but let’s not forget what he’s really all about.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Additionally, Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the card manufacture. For the majority of the world, that's Cartamundi.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Yeah, I saw that title on his video and it ticked me off so much that I haven't watched it yet. He's not the first either. I read an article from a year or two ago essentially arguing the same thing. People like him are painful reminders why Moat is over $500.
I hope WotC doesn't shutdown for exactly the reason you describe. But, I have a lot of mixed feelings about the potential for this. Magic isn't Monopoly (the board game) yet, but I was kind of hoping it would turn into one.
I watched his video to get his perspective and reasoning on why he wanted the expanded list. His logic makes sense that it would create a release valve on some older cards and maybe build confidence in purchases, but it also completely devastates the format those cards get played in.
On the subject of card printings, it doesn't matter if cartmundi made the cards in this case because wizards is the one who decided to sell the product. That's why they are in deep water right now and will be until this entire situation is corrected.
Heck even if they fix things going forward nothing is going to get this skeleton out of the closet completely.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The judge lawsuit does not impact the majority of the player base...that plays casually and at FNM from time to time. Could it have been handled better? Eh probably always the case but you will find that in ANY work environment.
The printing issues are not wotc, it's the manufacturer...and there are only so many to choose from that have the infrastructure in place to produce the required volume. They've used other manufacturers and had defects. Heck, some defects are even worth more than the original because there are collectors specifically for that. You got what you got. You have an issue with quality, go build a printing business the size of cartomundi and win the contract from wizards...gl.
The pro players getting all pissy about pay? Sure if you want an e sport you have to support the players via winnings at the upper crust. I kinda get this one. Many of these guys can't hold a full time job AND travel the globe competing for crumbs. If you don't pursue this game as a full time source of income or never plan to, complain about something else.
The recent bannings were an R & D goof, which has happened throughout the entire life of the game. Mistakes like this are why the freaking reserved list is such a contentious hot point - some of those cards are busted and now scarce. This isn't a bad thing, as pushing the envelope keeps packs cracking and the company profitable. Some of these are begun impacting formats outside of standard, like saheeli or the commands from khans for example.
The volume of masters sets is the company differentiating its product base and searching for a market equilibirum. They are trying to impact suppply without throwing demand haywire because LGSs depend on them to not screw things up. If I can get a horizon canopy for half the price, my LGS sells new product or even old inventory they've stored for literally decades, and wotc makes money wtf would I complain about this. Don't buy the product...go buy singles at a now cheaper price. Arguments against this literally make zero sense to me. If the market is flooded we'll see chronicles happen all over again...guess what...where not there yet. Chronicles also didn't kill wotc.
Wizards isn't going to close shop. These are, in all honesty, not that important to the majority of players. You wanna jam smugglers copters against an emrakul the promised with crimped edges or ink bleeds in a FFA kitchen table duel with friends...you're free to do so. Literally nothing on this list significantly impacts that customer, and it is a plentiful customer. The game feels more widely played and enjoyed to me than ever before imo. I've been playing casually to competive for 15 years now.
The product is not faulty. It serves it's purpose as a playing card, that it doesn't serve "investors" purposes as a fast-appreciating, tax-evading investment is not something you can sue Hasbro or WotC for because that's not what they're selling. They're selling a card game.
Now WotC is in fact printing in lower quality paper on purpose. It's obvious they bought a couple shipment containers worth of lower grade stock and that may be the real reason they've printed so much product these years. They need to get rid of as much of it as soon as possible so they can cut their loses before returning to the previous stock and pretending nothing happened.
I think Rudy straight up admitted that he doesn't play Magic.
To that end, it seems that Rudy is a good example of the contradictory desires of investors and the needs of players.
EDH doesn't even need any more cards. It'd remain fun indefinitely with current pool, especially with price barriers reduced or eliminated.
The problem Wizards of the Coast potentially has is the alligation of knowingly selling consumers a faulty product. This is actually a very real threat because the sheer volume of bent and rapidly bending cards that came out of packs of Amonkhet and HOU. Assuming Rudy's source gets validated, that alone is probably enough to cause a very high impact lawsuit that could cost wizards everything.
As for whether that law suit happens, it really depends on how happy consumers are with the company as a whole and if they are willing to let them have a chance to fix their problems. I feel that they may have turned things around with Iconic Masters given the cards I've seen come out of the packs thus far. Regardless, I'm at the point with Wizards that if they got tanked I wouldn't really shed a tear. I feel other card game companies give their players a lot more for a lot less and the only reason this is the case is because people let wizards get away with it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Have you ever tried playing with a deck where some cards are bent, and some cards are straight? I know a way to get unfair advantage. Get basic lands from older sets, where the cards are straight, and the rest of the cards from newer sets, where the card bend. You would immediately know which cards are your basic lands, and which cards are not. You could sleeve your deck, and you could still tell which are basic lands and which are not.
Pokemon TCG booster packs have a code card that redeems a booster pack online, and the price remains the same.
WOTC is thinking of adding redemption codes to future booster packs, and increasing the price because of it.
Pokemon Company recently decided to include a basic energy card in each pack, in addition to the 10 cards in the pack. Each pack is advertised as a 10 card booster pack, but has 11 cards because of the energy.
WOTC a while back decided to replace a common card with a basic land, advertising it as a 15 card booster pack. There are 14 cards + 1 basic land in each pack.
Pokemon TCG and Yugioh both include guaranteed foils in each pack, and keep the price of the packs the same.
MTG won't include guaranteed foils in packs unless they raise the price of it.
The one WOTC decision I hated was when they changed Theme Decks into Intro Packs.
WOTC is the company, out of WOTC, Konami, and Pokemon Company, that jacks up the price of the most products by adding booster packs. Look at the evolution of the fat pack, now bundle, and the number of packs, and how much it cost over the years.
Heck, even without the bending some of the newer cards don't exactly mesh well with the older ones. The newer cards from I think kaladesh and up are a tad thinner, and while the sleeves do help a lot, they still stand out when I try to mix them with cards from Scars block or earlier.
My own gripes with Wizards since I've come back is their push towards dividing the playerbase between standard and modern by pushing two different sets of cards instead of printing good cards in standard as a rule. Not to mention I don't think wizards set developers even know what cards really stick with players. No one is going to remember Reave Soul, but people will definitely remember Giant Growth.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That is like when a goaltender has some nights where he stops every shot, and some nights where he lets in a lot of pucks. Ok, not really. I do not like inconsistent cards as much as I do not like inconsistent goaltending.
My favorite era of MTG was between 2001 to 2008. That was the era when Yugioh was number 1. Now that MTG is number 1, for a while, WOTC has made a lot of decisions that I do not agree with, mainly the changing of the theme deck to intro pack, and when I finally got used to the intro pack, they change it again to planeswalker deck. Again, inconsistent. It's not like there was anything wrong with theme decks. You know what WOTC should have done? Release a theme deck, and a planeswalker pack. A theme deck is just your typical 60 card deck, no planeswalker. A planeswalker pack is a box set containing a theme deck, a legitimate planeswalker, and a couple of cards exclusive to the box set, and 2 boosters. That way, I have the option of buying the deck for $10, or the planeswalker pack for $15.
It happens to every company. A startup company seems nice and seems like it is the best company in the world. Once they find success, they make greedy decisions. Pokemon Company is giving more for less because they are not the #1 TCG right now.
Many of the newer cards I cracked from packs since Shadows Over Innistrad, the set I decide to return to Magic, is bending inside their sleeves. I mixed my newer bulks with my older bulks before I realized the newer cards are warping my older cards. To combat the bowing, I've taken to alternating my cards in my box, like this )()()()(, double carding in penny sleeves duplicates and packing the cards a little tighter than I normally would. In addition, I had to make U shaped labels out of paper stock in order to tease out enough cards to access the rest of the box without damaging cards. I didn't notice how serious it was until about two months ago when I went to add new bulks.
When I looked at my decks (about two or three weeks ago) a bit closer, I noticed that I could spot, and pick out, some of the more recent vintage cards. Aaaagghhh....
All this to shave 1/4-penny per card during manufacture?
A major PITFA.
I read somewhere, forget where, that WotC claimed that the older cards are thicker because they had time to absorb more moisture from the air. OK, fair enough, so is it worth pointing out that prior to the introduction of FOILS, I never ever had a card bow like they do now? So foils were introduced and they bent like crazy. Some so bad, I had to store them in heavy school text books. I quit before WotC fixed them and I come back to find even the new cards bend.
I've tried Dragon sleeves and double sleeved in KMCs and I always notice a difference, at least when cards start going into Amonkhet. Aether Revolt was a mixed experience. Some of the cards feel okay, others are noticeable.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I would hardly call a low-quality (debatable point) product faulty. Perhaps to save money WOTC developed a lower-cost, lower-quality product. This changes the value proposition and might lead to lost revenues, but hardly the basis for a lawsuit.
What is Rudy trying to accomplish?
EDIT: Just to add forgotten quote
Maybe WOTC should print all future cards to be bending over time hahaha. That way you know it is legitimate because the real ones bend, and the fake ones don't.
Perhaps the real reason why Cartamundi has been printing low quality cards on purpose is due to putting pressure on Wizards of the Coast to rescind the Reserved List and will only stop If they comply with their demands. Whether or not If this is the WotC Employees and Insiders' doing I'm not sure but I wouldn't put it past me If they did. Except the product is faulty because in order to play Magic the cards have to be as flat as possible in order to prevent cheating and manipulation. Apparently Wizards of the Coast promotes cheating since they allowed Alex Bertoncini to cheat in more Magic tournaments. The lower quality paper is so bad that the counterfeit quality for them is actually higher than the current quality of Magic cards. Not even holo-stamp foils are safe.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta