Actually, when I think about it if they did reprint zen fetches in a standard set, it would be painful in the short term, but because the value of the lands are so high singles sellers would keep opening boxes until the prices normalized. So, long term it would drop the prices of the zen fetches down to manageable levels, but I got no idea what it would do in the short term to the rest of the set along with standard in general. I don't think they've ever reprinted something as high dollar as the zen fetches in a standard set ever. Now I kind of want to see them do it just to see what really would happen.
We already know what would happen. Take a look at when fetches were reprinted in Khans. Those fetchlands were $60 to $120 but shot down to $8-$12. If the enemy fetchlands were reprinted in Standard the same thing would happen, they'd go down so far that anyone and everyone could get them. In the short and long term it would be good.
Ixalan has less "additional" cards, so you get less product and less potential value, so the stuff you do get, has to compensate.
The double sided cards in Ixalan do not replace a common and you cannot have 2+ rares this way.
This is different from Innistrad, which had more big pulls with mythic doubled sided + normal rare (and Avacyn wasnt cheap, even as a potential "extra" rare per booster).
----
Masterpieces in general lost a lot of value, especially in Hours of Devastation, they arent really expensive at all (ofcourse the top end still exists).
So chances that these actually influenced the value of a box was very small, if you open a Masterpiece and its just barely worth 20$ , it will do nothing (totally different story if the cards are 200$+).
----
Some of the cards that spike in value are a perfect reflection of people that buy up rares/mythics in successful decks and flip them for a gain. These buy-ups influence the market enough to change the value of a card for a longer period of time, especially if the card doesnt become irrelevant right away.
Actually, when I think about it if they did reprint zen fetches in a standard set, it would be painful in the short term, but because the value of the lands are so high singles sellers would keep opening boxes until the prices normalized. So, long term it would drop the prices of the zen fetches down to manageable levels, but I got no idea what it would do in the short term to the rest of the set along with standard in general. I don't think they've ever reprinted something as high dollar as the zen fetches in a standard set ever. Now I kind of want to see them do it just to see what really would happen.
We already know what would happen. Take a look at when fetches were reprinted in Khans. Those fetchlands were $60 to $120 but shot down to $8-$12. If the enemy fetchlands were reprinted in Standard the same thing would happen, they'd go down so far that anyone and everyone could get them. In the short and long term it would be good.
Those lands were never reprinted into modern before and had no pre-existing deck lists that used them. They are the same kind of land, but not the ones that were seeing heavy modern play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Actually, when I think about it if they did reprint zen fetches in a standard set, it would be painful in the short term, but because the value of the lands are so high singles sellers would keep opening boxes until the prices normalized. So, long term it would drop the prices of the zen fetches down to manageable levels, but I got no idea what it would do in the short term to the rest of the set along with standard in general. I don't think they've ever reprinted something as high dollar as the zen fetches in a standard set ever. Now I kind of want to see them do it just to see what really would happen.
We already know what would happen. Take a look at when fetches were reprinted in Khans. Those fetchlands were $60 to $120 but shot down to $8-$12. If the enemy fetchlands were reprinted in Standard the same thing would happen, they'd go down so far that anyone and everyone could get them. In the short and long term it would be good.
Those lands were never reprinted into modern before and had no pre-existing deck lists that used them. They are the same kind of land, but not the ones that were seeing heavy modern play.
That isn't really an argument, in fact it'd be an argument against ZEN fetchlands being more valuable because a lot of decks immediately dropped ZEN fetchlands for ONS fetchlands as soon as they became Modern legal like Burn with Wooded Foothills, Delver with Bloodstained Mire and Polluted Delta, Pod with Windswept Heath, etc.
If the $120 Polluted Delta went to $15 in a month without breaking the format, $50 Scalding Tarn can be reprinted down to $10 without hurting Standard so long as there's no ETBU duals avaliable.
Actually, when I think about it if they did reprint zen fetches in a standard set, it would be painful in the short term, but because the value of the lands are so high singles sellers would keep opening boxes until the prices normalized. So, long term it would drop the prices of the zen fetches down to manageable levels, but I got no idea what it would do in the short term to the rest of the set along with standard in general. I don't think they've ever reprinted something as high dollar as the zen fetches in a standard set ever. Now I kind of want to see them do it just to see what really would happen.
We already know what would happen. Take a look at when fetches were reprinted in Khans. Those fetchlands were $60 to $120 but shot down to $8-$12. If the enemy fetchlands were reprinted in Standard the same thing would happen, they'd go down so far that anyone and everyone could get them. In the short and long term it would be good.
Those lands were never reprinted into modern before and had no pre-existing deck lists that used them. They are the same kind of land, but not the ones that were seeing heavy modern play.
That isn't really an argument, in fact it'd be an argument against ZEN fetchlands being more valuable because a lot of decks immediately dropped ZEN fetchlands for ONS fetchlands as soon as they became Modern legal like Burn with Wooded Foothills, Delver with Bloodstained Mire and Polluted Delta, Pod with Windswept Heath, etc.
If the $120 Polluted Delta went to $15 in a month without breaking the format, $50 Scalding Tarn can be reprinted down to $10 without hurting Standard so long as there's no ETBU duals avaliable.
I'm not even arguing against reprinting them in standard, actually. I'm more curious to see what happens when they do since I still do not believe that the prices would act identically to the Kahns fetches. Somehow I got a feeling that wizards wants them to be expensive, which is why they aren't doing it and probably don't have plans to do it outside masters sets. Also, when I say wizards, I mean wizards department in charge of figuring out the max value they want to cram into a set to preserve some semblance of a secondary market.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not even arguing against reprinting them in standard, actually. I'm more curious to see what happens when they do since I still do not believe that the prices would act identically to the Kahns fetches. Somehow I got a feeling that wizards wants them to be expensive, which is why they aren't doing it and probably don't have plans to do it outside masters sets. Also, when I say wizards, I mean wizards department in charge of figuring out the max value they want to cram into a set to preserve some semblance of a secondary market.
There is no department of max value to preserve the secondary market. That's just ridiculous.
From a play perspective, fetchlands kind of suck. I'm not talking about their powerlevel, although without fetchable duals or things like brainstorm, that is lower than most people think. Fetchlands make you shuffle. And shuffling sucks. It's not fun. It takes time. It's added opportunity for sketchiness/cheating. It sucks. It's a necessary evil, but the fewer cards that cause players to shuffle, the better.
When you combine that aspect with what happens to the environment when there are fetchable duals, there are plenty of reasons to not reprint the fetches, that have little to do with their secondary market value.
The fundamental guiding principle if they are willing to reprint a card into a Standard legal set appears to have nothing to do with price, and everything to do with it not screwing up standard. From Khans fetch reprints, to Thoughtseize and Mutavault, to their claims that they were at least testing reprinting Damnation into standard, it really doesn't look like price is the defining issue. Besides, most cards that are strong enough to have their price rise to ridiculous heights are either too powerful for standard, or powerful enough to be the dominant/defining card in the format. And if a card has dominated standard once, it's far less enjoyable bringing it back to dominate it again, even if that would result in a huge price dip.
That's what the Masters sets are for, even if they are far less effective at lowering prices (~25% drop).
And I, and I'm pretty sure Wizards reject drmarkb's suggestion that they can just reprint something and ban it so it doesn't warp Standard. Bannings may be a necessary evil, but you should never print something that you have a good idea that you are going to have to ban.
You can't be serious if you don't think that Wizards looks at card prices. If they over reprint like in Chronicles they can't use those cards to sell product in the future. They WANT to keep things at least somewhat inflated so they can sell expensive boosters. So yes don't expect to see more fetches in standard for 5+ years would be my guess.
I'm not even arguing against reprinting them in standard, actually. I'm more curious to see what happens when they do since I still do not believe that the prices would act identically to the Kahns fetches. Somehow I got a feeling that wizards wants them to be expensive, which is why they aren't doing it and probably don't have plans to do it outside masters sets. Also, when I say wizards, I mean wizards department in charge of figuring out the max value they want to cram into a set to preserve some semblance of a secondary market.
There is no department of max value to preserve the secondary market. That's just ridiculous.
From a play perspective, fetchlands kind of suck. I'm not talking about their powerlevel, although without fetchable duals or things like brainstorm, that is lower than most people think. Fetchlands make you shuffle. And shuffling sucks. It's not fun. It takes time. It's added opportunity for sketchiness/cheating. It sucks. It's a necessary evil, but the fewer cards that cause players to shuffle, the better.
When you combine that aspect with what happens to the environment when there are fetchable duals, there are plenty of reasons to not reprint the fetches, that have little to do with their secondary market value.
The fundamental guiding principle if they are willing to reprint a card into a Standard legal set appears to have nothing to do with price, and everything to do with it not screwing up standard. From Khans fetch reprints, to Thoughtseize and Mutavault, to their claims that they were at least testing reprinting Damnation into standard, it really doesn't look like price is the defining issue. Besides, most cards that are strong enough to have their price rise to ridiculous heights are either too powerful for standard, or powerful enough to be the dominant/defining card in the format. And if a card has dominated standard once, it's far less enjoyable bringing it back to dominate it again, even if that would result in a huge price dip.
That's what the Masters sets are for, even if they are far less effective at lowering prices (~25% drop).
And I, and I'm pretty sure Wizards reject drmarkb's suggestion that they can just reprint something and ban it so it doesn't warp Standard. Bannings may be a necessary evil, but you should never print something that you have a good idea that you are going to have to ban.
This only holds water IF masters sets were printed at the normal pack MSRP. As it stands I can honestly say that masters sets is NOT primarly to lower value of secondary market goodies.
I'm not even arguing against reprinting them in standard, actually. I'm more curious to see what happens when they do since I still do not believe that the prices would act identically to the Kahns fetches. Somehow I got a feeling that wizards wants them to be expensive, which is why they aren't doing it and probably don't have plans to do it outside masters sets. Also, when I say wizards, I mean wizards department in charge of figuring out the max value they want to cram into a set to preserve some semblance of a secondary market.
There is no department of max value to preserve the secondary market. That's just ridiculous.
From a play perspective, fetchlands kind of suck. I'm not talking about their powerlevel, although without fetchable duals or things like brainstorm, that is lower than most people think. Fetchlands make you shuffle. And shuffling sucks. It's not fun. It takes time. It's added opportunity for sketchiness/cheating. It sucks. It's a necessary evil, but the fewer cards that cause players to shuffle, the better.
When you combine that aspect with what happens to the environment when there are fetchable duals, there are plenty of reasons to not reprint the fetches, that have little to do with their secondary market value.
The fundamental guiding principle if they are willing to reprint a card into a Standard legal set appears to have nothing to do with price, and everything to do with it not screwing up standard. From Khans fetch reprints, to Thoughtseize and Mutavault, to their claims that they were at least testing reprinting Damnation into standard, it really doesn't look like price is the defining issue. Besides, most cards that are strong enough to have their price rise to ridiculous heights are either too powerful for standard, or powerful enough to be the dominant/defining card in the format. And if a card has dominated standard once, it's far less enjoyable bringing it back to dominate it again, even if that would result in a huge price dip.
That's what the Masters sets are for, even if they are far less effective at lowering prices (~25% drop).
And I, and I'm pretty sure Wizards reject drmarkb's suggestion that they can just reprint something and ban it so it doesn't warp Standard. Bannings may be a necessary evil, but you should never print something that you have a good idea that you are going to have to ban.
... are you serious? You think that Wizards of the Coast, a company that has been selling magic for over two decades and pioneered the entire trading card game industry, doesn't understand that they need a secondary market and for cards to have secondary market value (for varying underlying reasons)? If you want to see a company that doesn't understand how the secondary market works and loves shooting itself in the foot, check out the Force of Will company... well that or possibly Konami. I'm not really sure which one of the two is worse.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Seeing as how commander started out as nothing more than a made-up casual format and now Wizards prints entire sets just for that format, I'd have to agree with colt that WOTC clearly monitors more than just its primary market.
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():
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We already know what would happen. Take a look at when fetches were reprinted in Khans. Those fetchlands were $60 to $120 but shot down to $8-$12. If the enemy fetchlands were reprinted in Standard the same thing would happen, they'd go down so far that anyone and everyone could get them. In the short and long term it would be good.
The double sided cards in Ixalan do not replace a common and you cannot have 2+ rares this way.
This is different from Innistrad, which had more big pulls with mythic doubled sided + normal rare (and Avacyn wasnt cheap, even as a potential "extra" rare per booster).
----
Masterpieces in general lost a lot of value, especially in Hours of Devastation, they arent really expensive at all (ofcourse the top end still exists).
So chances that these actually influenced the value of a box was very small, if you open a Masterpiece and its just barely worth 20$ , it will do nothing (totally different story if the cards are 200$+).
----
Some of the cards that spike in value are a perfect reflection of people that buy up rares/mythics in successful decks and flip them for a gain. These buy-ups influence the market enough to change the value of a card for a longer period of time, especially if the card doesnt become irrelevant right away.
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Those lands were never reprinted into modern before and had no pre-existing deck lists that used them. They are the same kind of land, but not the ones that were seeing heavy modern play.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If the $120 Polluted Delta went to $15 in a month without breaking the format, $50 Scalding Tarn can be reprinted down to $10 without hurting Standard so long as there's no ETBU duals avaliable.
I'm not even arguing against reprinting them in standard, actually. I'm more curious to see what happens when they do since I still do not believe that the prices would act identically to the Kahns fetches. Somehow I got a feeling that wizards wants them to be expensive, which is why they aren't doing it and probably don't have plans to do it outside masters sets. Also, when I say wizards, I mean wizards department in charge of figuring out the max value they want to cram into a set to preserve some semblance of a secondary market.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There is no department of max value to preserve the secondary market. That's just ridiculous.
From a play perspective, fetchlands kind of suck. I'm not talking about their powerlevel, although without fetchable duals or things like brainstorm, that is lower than most people think. Fetchlands make you shuffle. And shuffling sucks. It's not fun. It takes time. It's added opportunity for sketchiness/cheating. It sucks. It's a necessary evil, but the fewer cards that cause players to shuffle, the better.
When you combine that aspect with what happens to the environment when there are fetchable duals, there are plenty of reasons to not reprint the fetches, that have little to do with their secondary market value.
The fundamental guiding principle if they are willing to reprint a card into a Standard legal set appears to have nothing to do with price, and everything to do with it not screwing up standard. From Khans fetch reprints, to Thoughtseize and Mutavault, to their claims that they were at least testing reprinting Damnation into standard, it really doesn't look like price is the defining issue. Besides, most cards that are strong enough to have their price rise to ridiculous heights are either too powerful for standard, or powerful enough to be the dominant/defining card in the format. And if a card has dominated standard once, it's far less enjoyable bringing it back to dominate it again, even if that would result in a huge price dip.
That's what the Masters sets are for, even if they are far less effective at lowering prices (~25% drop).
And I, and I'm pretty sure Wizards reject drmarkb's suggestion that they can just reprint something and ban it so it doesn't warp Standard. Bannings may be a necessary evil, but you should never print something that you have a good idea that you are going to have to ban.
This only holds water IF masters sets were printed at the normal pack MSRP. As it stands I can honestly say that masters sets is NOT primarly to lower value of secondary market goodies.
... are you serious? You think that Wizards of the Coast, a company that has been selling magic for over two decades and pioneered the entire trading card game industry, doesn't understand that they need a secondary market and for cards to have secondary market value (for varying underlying reasons)? If you want to see a company that doesn't understand how the secondary market works and loves shooting itself in the foot, check out the Force of Will company... well that or possibly Konami. I'm not really sure which one of the two is worse.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!