It's not against the rules but it is definitely annoying. As the rules currently stand, you can at any time call a judge to get the oracle text of any card at any time. It slows down the match and could cause a long game to go to turns, but it's probably the only solution other than memorizing card art or trusting the opponent.
I personally prefer not to use foreign cards (and other than super obvious staples like Lightning Bolt, stay away from textless cards like Cryptic Command). There's nothing more frustrating for both sides than to have a misunderstanding of what a card actually does and have to call a judge multiple times to rectify a simple text-reading problem.
I think the problem stems from when people do this intentionally in order to get an edge. It gets even worse when they use obscure art. I once played in a tournament against a person playing all foreign cards, and wherever possible each card was in a different art and a different language.
I had someone once not know what his own textless Cryptic Command does. He asked the judge for an oracle text because he doesn't know what his own textless card did. I personally think people should be issued a warning at a competitive REL if they don;'t know what their own card does
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It's not against the rules but it is definitely annoying. As the rules currently stand, you can at any time call a judge to get the oracle text of any card at any time. It slows down the match and could cause a long game to go to turns, but it's probably the only solution other than memorizing card art or trusting the opponent.
I personally prefer not to use foreign cards (and other than super obvious staples like Lightning Bolt, stay away from textless cards like Cryptic Command). There's nothing more frustrating for both sides than to have a misunderstanding of what a card actually does and have to call a judge multiple times to rectify a simple text-reading problem.
I think the problem stems from when people do this intentionally in order to get an edge. It gets even worse when they use obscure art. I once played in a tournament against a person playing all foreign cards, and wherever possible each card was in a different art and a different language.
I had someone once not know what his own textless Cryptic Command does. He asked the judge for an oracle text because he doesn't know what his own textless card did. I personally think people should be issued a warning at a competitive REL if they don;'t know what their own card does
I understand that frustration, as a judge that card in particular is super frustrating. Once, I had the same player at 2 PPTQs in a row ask the same question about the same foreign card. Now, it is obvious to me from the dynamic of the call that he was doing it to placate his opponent who, rightfully, wanted to make sure there was nothing fishy happening, it was still an annoyance.
That being said, there should not be a penalty for this. It sets a terrible precedent. What if a player has an older card that has huge oracle changes and needs a reminder of the exact wording in oracle to see how it works? What if a player bought an Italian Legends card because they are significantly cheaper? A player shouldn't be priced into or forced into a penalty for wanting to ensure that they are playing fairly and following the rules. Also, a huge part of MTG is self expression. For a lot of players, that is done through building their own really sweet deck that perfectly fits their play style. For others, it's having cool foreign languages and sweet promo arts on their cards to show how devoted they are to the game and their deck that they went so far out of their way to make it look good. And ultimately, tournaments are for players to have fun. The infractions exist to ensure that the tournaments integrity is maintained and that all players are able to enjoy a safe space. Punishing players for expressing themselves and having fun doesn't fit in with that.
I understand that frustration, as a judge that card in particular is super frustrating. Once, I had the same player at 2 PPTQs in a row ask the same question about the same foreign card. Now, it is obvious to me from the dynamic of the call that he was doing it to placate his opponent who, rightfully, wanted to make sure there was nothing fishy happening, it was still an annoyance.
That being said, there should not be a penalty for this. It sets a terrible precedent. What if a player has an older card that has huge oracle changes and needs a reminder of the exact wording in oracle to see how it works? What if a player bought an Italian Legends card because they are significantly cheaper? A player shouldn't be priced into or forced into a penalty for wanting to ensure that they are playing fairly and following the rules. Also, a huge part of MTG is self expression. For a lot of players, that is done through building their own really sweet deck that perfectly fits their play style. For others, it's having cool foreign languages and sweet promo arts on their cards to show how devoted they are to the game and their deck that they went so far out of their way to make it look good. And ultimately, tournaments are for players to have fun. The infractions exist to ensure that the tournaments integrity is maintained and that all players are able to enjoy a safe space. Punishing players for expressing themselves and having fun doesn't fit in with that.
My opinion is the burden of playing a textless cryptic/ foreign cards should be placed on the person who decides to bring the textless card, not on the opponent. (I'm saying at a minimum the guy should be able to recite what their card does) You should accommodate your opponent not the other way around. To be, this is like you playing affinity/ BW tokens and asking your opponent to provide the dice/ tokens.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Not exactly, you're borrowing item x from your opponent. This scenario requires a certain level of trust of your opponent. You're not borrowing anything. I play cards like Candlebra of Tawnos that never saw a reprint with current Oracle wording. I discover a surprising number of "Legacy" players that don't really know what a mono artifact actually is or does.
This is always a problem, ever since the first errata. I used to write down card changes at the time (I don't remember if there was an official source, Duelist maybe?) Then when WotC started posting text based card lists, I used to sneak into the campus computer lab and print them out in the smallest possible font I could read. Smart phones make it all somewhat easier and I started using it this way just recently.
Point is, I never trusted what my opponent would tell me about a card, ever. If an unfamiliar card is on the table, I made sure to read it or look it up, not take my opponents word on it. I don't expect anyone else to take my word on a card either. I'll tell them if they ask, but I fully expect them to verify it themselves.
I understand that frustration, as a judge that card in particular is super frustrating. Once, I had the same player at 2 PPTQs in a row ask the same question about the same foreign card. Now, it is obvious to me from the dynamic of the call that he was doing it to placate his opponent who, rightfully, wanted to make sure there was nothing fishy happening, it was still an annoyance.
That being said, there should not be a penalty for this. It sets a terrible precedent. What if a player has an older card that has huge oracle changes and needs a reminder of the exact wording in oracle to see how it works? What if a player bought an Italian Legends card because they are significantly cheaper? A player shouldn't be priced into or forced into a penalty for wanting to ensure that they are playing fairly and following the rules. Also, a huge part of MTG is self expression. For a lot of players, that is done through building their own really sweet deck that perfectly fits their play style. For others, it's having cool foreign languages and sweet promo arts on their cards to show how devoted they are to the game and their deck that they went so far out of their way to make it look good. And ultimately, tournaments are for players to have fun. The infractions exist to ensure that the tournaments integrity is maintained and that all players are able to enjoy a safe space. Punishing players for expressing themselves and having fun doesn't fit in with that.
My opinion is the burden of playing a textless cryptic/ foreign cards should be placed on the person who decides to bring the textless card, not on the opponent. (I'm saying at a minimum the guy should be able to recite what their card does) You should accommodate your opponent not the other way around. To be, this is like you playing affinity/ BW tokens and asking your opponent to provide the dice/ tokens.
I disagree. Especially since you shouldn't trust your opponent to tell you the correct wording anyway and should call a judge if you don't know what the card does or if there is any disagreement/misunderstanding. That's a big part of why we are there as judges. To help players. Also, any attempt to infract on this leads to awful feel bass that shouldn't happen when a player lists out all of the modes on a command but gets the order wrong which could impact how the card works and thus would t being accurately reciting the card. And it is so incredibly different to ask a judge for oracle text and ask your opponent to give you dice for counters that I'm not going to further acknowledge that comparison.
As far as I know the rule is this:
"the player using the foreign cards must either translate the name or explain what it does".
if they cannot, they shouldn't be playing them.
I used to play legacy with japanese green sun's zenith, and i never remembered about the shuffle into library clause so swapped them with english ones
Could you send me the exact wording/ ruling on this?
There is no such rule. Despite being completely confident anyway, I combed the IPG and the MTR and there is no official ruling on this matter. That is either completely outdated, made up, or Frankensteined together from the rules on naming a card for Pithing Needle type effects and something someone thinks they heard once about foreign cards in that scenario. Also, judges will just look up the collector number and set if a name can't be found. It's not hard.
If you are playing competitive magic, you should know what a vast majority of cards in a given format do. I really like how japanese cards look and I have a UB faeries deck in all japanese. Why should I care that you don't know what spellstutter sprite does?
I have never found it to be problem outside of new players at FNM. In the 4-5 PPTQs I did in the last Modern season, I didn't run a single english non-land card and I think I had a grand total of 2 Judge calls for errata, and I was playing Tarfire, Simic Charm and Disrupting Shoal. I typically find that most competitive modern players know just about every playable card in the format.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I think the problem stems from when people do this intentionally in order to get an edge. It gets even worse when they use obscure art. I once played in a tournament against a person playing all foreign cards, and wherever possible each card was in a different art and a different language.
Welp, I have a "United Nation" Griselbrand deck, where each playset consist out of a German, English, Portuguese and Japanese version. Looks super cool (and I can read three out of four languages).
My stance is: You need to know what your cards do and need to accept, if an opponent calls a judge to ask for the oracle text. If you are playing with cards you can neither read (textless or language you do not know) nor know what they do, than you should get punished for it.
Btw. enforcing anything in this regard is impossible to do, especially when it is NOT in the US (good luck enforcing something like this in Europe with its 6 different print languages (French, English, German, Spanish, Portuguese and Russian)).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I have never found it to be problem outside of new players at FNM. In the 4-5 PPTQs I did in the last Modern season, I didn't run a single english non-land card and I think I had a grand total of 2 Judge calls for errata, and I was playing Tarfire, Simic Charm and Disrupting Shoal. I typically find that most competitive modern players know just about every playable card in the format.
Someone was playing some Monkey Grow. My Italian Disrupting Shoal was always a pain in the butt to explain to people.
A native US speaker should not be allowed to play a deck that is made of up mostly or all foreign cards in a US tournament.
That's absurd.
What the hell is a "native US speaker"?
The United States doesn't actually have an official language at the federal level (although at the state level, 30 states have English as the official language, and Alaska, Hawaii, and all US territories have English plus one or more local/native languages as official languages)
A native English speaker is perfectly capable of being fluent in another language, or at least well-versed enough to play a game
On a personal note, when I played Yu-Gi-Oh, all of my cards except for Waboku were in Japanese (because Emissary of Harmony was incredibly difficult to get a copy of compared to Waboku). I do not speak or read Japanese beyond a small handful of words, but I knew exactly what every card that I played did. Upper Deck Entertainment did not permit non-English cards to be played at their tournaments at all, even if there was an English printing of the card in question (which wasn't a given, since the Japanese game was several sets ahead of the English one). It felt really bad to be barred from play simply because of the language of my cardboard.
It's not an issue. It's just a small handful of players too salty to let go of the time they lost because they didn't call a judge for oracle text like they should have. If you read back through last page a few of them were even making stuff up about rules that don't exist and claiming that they do.
It's not an issue. It's just a small handful of players too salty to let go of the time they lost because they didn't call a judge for oracle text like they should have. If you read back through last page a few of them were even making stuff up about rules that don't exist and claiming that they do.
Not quite sure how to respond to that....
Moving along, the language of the card is a non-issue. Since direction of this thread has already tipped, I'll go with the flow.
Forget speaking US, everyone should learn the King of Languages, ASL.
If you are playing competitive magic, you should know what a vast majority of cards in a given format do. I really like how japanese cards look and I have a UB faeries deck in all japanese. Why should I care that you don't know what spellstutter sprite does?
Do you know exactly how many cards are legal in Modern*, as of the time I'm writing this?
11,084.
The "vast majority" of that is still an obscenely large number to keep track of.
*I know you didn't say Modern, but there's not really a competitive format that includes U/B Faeries that has a smaller card pool than Modern.
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I had someone once not know what his own textless Cryptic Command does. He asked the judge for an oracle text because he doesn't know what his own textless card did. I personally think people should be issued a warning at a competitive REL if they don;'t know what their own card does
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I understand that frustration, as a judge that card in particular is super frustrating. Once, I had the same player at 2 PPTQs in a row ask the same question about the same foreign card. Now, it is obvious to me from the dynamic of the call that he was doing it to placate his opponent who, rightfully, wanted to make sure there was nothing fishy happening, it was still an annoyance.
That being said, there should not be a penalty for this. It sets a terrible precedent. What if a player has an older card that has huge oracle changes and needs a reminder of the exact wording in oracle to see how it works? What if a player bought an Italian Legends card because they are significantly cheaper? A player shouldn't be priced into or forced into a penalty for wanting to ensure that they are playing fairly and following the rules. Also, a huge part of MTG is self expression. For a lot of players, that is done through building their own really sweet deck that perfectly fits their play style. For others, it's having cool foreign languages and sweet promo arts on their cards to show how devoted they are to the game and their deck that they went so far out of their way to make it look good. And ultimately, tournaments are for players to have fun. The infractions exist to ensure that the tournaments integrity is maintained and that all players are able to enjoy a safe space. Punishing players for expressing themselves and having fun doesn't fit in with that.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
My opinion is the burden of playing a textless cryptic/ foreign cards should be placed on the person who decides to bring the textless card, not on the opponent. (I'm saying at a minimum the guy should be able to recite what their card does) You should accommodate your opponent not the other way around. To be, this is like you playing affinity/ BW tokens and asking your opponent to provide the dice/ tokens.
Could you send me the exact wording/ ruling on this?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This is always a problem, ever since the first errata. I used to write down card changes at the time (I don't remember if there was an official source, Duelist maybe?) Then when WotC started posting text based card lists, I used to sneak into the campus computer lab and print them out in the smallest possible font I could read. Smart phones make it all somewhat easier and I started using it this way just recently.
Point is, I never trusted what my opponent would tell me about a card, ever. If an unfamiliar card is on the table, I made sure to read it or look it up, not take my opponents word on it. I don't expect anyone else to take my word on a card either. I'll tell them if they ask, but I fully expect them to verify it themselves.
I disagree. Especially since you shouldn't trust your opponent to tell you the correct wording anyway and should call a judge if you don't know what the card does or if there is any disagreement/misunderstanding. That's a big part of why we are there as judges. To help players. Also, any attempt to infract on this leads to awful feel bass that shouldn't happen when a player lists out all of the modes on a command but gets the order wrong which could impact how the card works and thus would t being accurately reciting the card. And it is so incredibly different to ask a judge for oracle text and ask your opponent to give you dice for counters that I'm not going to further acknowledge that comparison.
There is no such rule. Despite being completely confident anyway, I combed the IPG and the MTR and there is no official ruling on this matter. That is either completely outdated, made up, or Frankensteined together from the rules on naming a card for Pithing Needle type effects and something someone thinks they heard once about foreign cards in that scenario. Also, judges will just look up the collector number and set if a name can't be found. It's not hard.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Welp, I have a "United Nation" Griselbrand deck, where each playset consist out of a German, English, Portuguese and Japanese version. Looks super cool (and I can read three out of four languages).
My stance is: You need to know what your cards do and need to accept, if an opponent calls a judge to ask for the oracle text. If you are playing with cards you can neither read (textless or language you do not know) nor know what they do, than you should get punished for it.
Btw. enforcing anything in this regard is impossible to do, especially when it is NOT in the US (good luck enforcing something like this in Europe with its 6 different print languages (French, English, German, Spanish, Portuguese and Russian)).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Someone was playing some Monkey Grow. My Italian Disrupting Shoal was always a pain in the butt to explain to people.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Why on earth would you ban a cherokee or apache player from playing with foreign cards?
Oh, you meant ENGLISH. You do know that english is not the native language of the US, right?
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I'm pretty sure it would be North America, not United States. Gotta include those parts some people call Canada and Mexico.
Technically, my native language isn't written (though there are some in the works) so how would I even play cards in my own native language?
Honestly, at the risk of a warning or a ban, why is this an issue?
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
LOL, I just reread what I wrote, it does sound pretty retarded. I have no idea know why I chose to word it that way.
You know what I mean though.
Do you not speak US????
Honestly if the whole world just spoke US we wouldn't have to bother with threads like this, so I right?
Not quite sure how to respond to that....
Moving along, the language of the card is a non-issue. Since direction of this thread has already tipped, I'll go with the flow.
Forget speaking US, everyone should learn the King of Languages, ASL.
Do you know exactly how many cards are legal in Modern*, as of the time I'm writing this?
11,084.
The "vast majority" of that is still an obscenely large number to keep track of.
*I know you didn't say Modern, but there's not really a competitive format that includes U/B Faeries that has a smaller card pool than Modern.