I'm not sure if others feel the same way, but to me core sets always felt as if they had more elegantly designed cards than regular magic sets.
When I look at M10 for example, I almost don't see 'word salad' cards such as you find inmorerecentsets (and older ones too). The 'word salad' aspect is just one thing though, because of course you have simple designs in regular sets as well. However, the fact that you don't need to introduce signature mechanics from the set and paint a picture of a particular world gives core sets a more accurate 'Magic: the Gathering' feeling to me. It is as if core sets were the ones that best captured the essence of Magic itself, because you aren't constrained by arbitrary rules of design, and you can just focus in making simple cards that represent the essence of each color, while also reprinting cards that better captured that essence over the years.
For instance, in M10 you find rampant growth, oakenform, kalonian behemoth, pyroclasm, manabarbs, magma phoenix, weakness, royal assassin, sign in blood, merfolk looter, negate, sleep, silence, white knight and planar cleansing. All of these cards feel more as what the core of magic should be about. They're not constrained by any particular world or plane, they just are the essence of what each color represents. I have the impression that if every set of magic was like a core set the game would feel better to play. I know this is a weird thing to say because it is primarily a subjective feeling, but especially in the more recent sets the cards just look gimmick. We have a steampunk set in Kaladesh and an Egyptian set in Amonketh, and both don't feel like Magic: the Gathering at all to me.
I hope this makes some sense to people, because I would like to know what your opinion is on the matter, if anybody else feels the same. To help clarify it: whenever the commander product is released, the singleton cards that are not trying to represent the commander set's mechanics also capture the same feel that the core sets have. As examples I could point out to scavenging ooze, reef worm, duelist's heritage, deadly tempest and witch hunt.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
On the flip side, Core sets often provide an even higher ratio of bad and boring draft chaff to playable cards than Expert sets.
There's a sweet spot of complexity that I think only Origins got close to right (unfortunately, Origins was also released when WotC decided to drop their 20 year tradition of playable ramp, kill spells and burn, but the complexity was pretty close to my ideal for a Core set).
I, too, like how the core sets are baseline MtG, with core values of the five colors, and the various tribes, represented like that. But I don't think that every set should be like that, or design space would dry up pretty fast! What you call gimmicks, I call Wizards exploring new design space and trying new things, and that is what keeps the game fresh, even if some things end up not working so well. Better to try something new that some people like and some don't, than just releasing slight variations of the same set four times per year. In short: I say let the core sets take care of being core sets.
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EDH/Commander
UBR Sedris RG Omnath, Locus of Rage UB The Scarab God RUG Maelstrom Wanderer WU Dragonlord Ojutai
Origins- fantastic
M10 brilliant- the ones in between- not so much.
I really miss the literary quotes from early Mtg Auden, Shakey etc. But there is no denying that a story-free base set would offer a genuine respite for those of us who dislike the story aspect of the game. When a card is suggested anywhere you so often hear "they can't do that because chandra did this to that and Elsepth is dead" etc. I dislike that intensely, and would be happy for a base set with generic cards.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
On the flip side, Core sets often provide an even higher ratio of bad and boring draft chaff to playable cards than Expert sets.
There's a sweet spot of complexity that I think only Origins got close to right (unfortunately, Origins was also released when WotC decided to drop their 20 year tradition of playable ramp, kill spells and burn, but the complexity was pretty close to my ideal for a Core set).
I like Origins too. I feel like there were some cards that were more complex than you would find in your regular coresets, such as the flipwalkers, but some other that represented exactly what I'm talking about on this thread, such as vryn wingmare, jhessian thief, priest of the blood rite, molten vortex and evolutionary leap.
I, too, like how the core sets are baseline MtG, with core values of the five colors, and the various tribes, represented like that. But I don't think that every set should be like that, or design space would dry up pretty fast! What you call gimmicks, I call Wizards exploring new design space and trying new things, and that is what keeps the game fresh, even if some things end up not working so well. Better to try something new that some people like and some don't, than just releasing slight variations of the same set four times per year. In short: I say let the core sets take care of being core sets.
I think you could still explore new design spaces only using core sets. If Origins alone isn't a testament of that, you had one coreset (M15) where convoke returned as a set mechanic, and another (M13) where exalted returned. However, developers don't seem to fill core sets with tons of new mechanics, and that would be a good thing if you're trying to design a new set. Some of the new mechanics in recent magic just feel incredibly clunky and egregious to me, as if they were trying to fill a quota. Mechanics such as eternalize, fabricate and processing are so incredibly bland, and the returning mechanics such as madness and cycling seem to come back nerfed. However, plenty of the new mechanics such as investigate, delirium, improvise, skulk, exert, etc. could fit perfectly well in a core set. They have done it before with existing mechanics, they could do it again, this time also designing a mechanic to the aforementioned core sets.
Finally, there is a issue of flavor that is particular important to me. Core sets capture the flavor of Magic in a way that other sets don't seem capable of. When I was a kid I recall seeing cards such as dark banishing and force of nature, cards that not only had widely different artworks but also represented a medieval looking fantasy world. That is why I liked magic. I started playing before Mirrodin was released, and almost every card from every set I saw had that medieval-looking feel to it. Some did better than others, but none did better than the core sets. However, after Mirrodin, Ravnica and now Theros and Kaladesh, Magic seems to be going to all sorts of places to release new cards. I'm not a fan of that. Some fantasies just don't seem to fit well in what Magic looks like. And the artwork? It all became so... uniform, as if the artists are bound to depict all cards from the set in pretty much the same way, using the same coloring and techniques. I deeply despise that. I realize the flavor aspect is entirely personal, and I admit that I enjoyed some of the new worlds we saw, such as Lorwyn, Zendikar and Innistrad, but in my mind the worlds that I liked didn't distance themselves so much from the original medieval theme that I so thoroughly enjoy.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Origins- fantastic
M10 brilliant- the ones in between- not so much.
I'd say M13 was just as good as these. Exalted is a nice mechanic and the 5 rare legends were all straightforward.
Core sets definitely do need to return, both to have a return to resonant high fantasy every so often and to have a more flavor-neutral setting to reprint cards. Also a way to ensure each color in standard has access to its core mechanics and a reasonable set of answers. Using the core set to ensure cards like Banishing Light or Hero's Downfall remain in standard regardless of whatever the blocks are doing should help the "oh crap, we forgot to print enough answers. Ban ******* everything." problem they recently had.
I have the M10 cards, and now I am trying to get back into the game 8 years later. Totally confused on what to get and not too keen on dinosaurs or steampunk themes. What to do....
I have the M10 cards, and now I am trying to get back into the game 8 years later. Totally confused on what to get and not too keen on dinosaurs or steampunk themes. What to do....
Wait a month and buy Dominaria? Then the Core Set will come out and it will be generic fantasy.
We all know core sets are boring to draft, at least from what I heard from you guys, and how block expansions must include cards in them just for draft, but what if they designed core sets to be drafted with the 3 other expansions of the year? Each draft can be 2 boosters from one of the 3 expansion sets, and 1 core set booster.
Core sets can still be drafted alone, but core sets should be designed to be draft alongside the 3 block expansion sets that come after it.
I am going to wait for the core set. After looking at the rest of the new worlds, they just seem too different to me. I guess I am old school because of my M10 and my husband's cards from the 90's.
I am going to wait for the core set. After looking at the rest of the new worlds, they just seem too different to me. I guess I am old school because of my M10 and my husband's cards from the 90's.
I mean, Dominaria is the next set, and is a return to the plane of Dominaria, which is where most of the older sets took place.
I see what you mean but I like that the new sets have new planes and new mechanics. Keeps it fresh I think. I'm a budget-oriented casual player so the core sets' many reprints are a negative point for me.
I think the Core Sets we've had have been both fundamentally important but also incredibly flawed, and I don't know if the issue is reconcilable. It will be interesting to see what Wizards does with the return of the Core Set.
Looking at the history of the Core Set, it's interesting to see what's succeeded and where problems have sprung up.
Alpha, Beta, Unlimited - Baseline
You start with a solid baseline. The initial set was a success and what the game was built on. You had a broad, resonant environment not tied to a specific story that drew players in.
4th - 10th Edition: - Nothing but reprints
Any specific set aside, this is the dark age of core sets. These sets failed to establish a "Core". The entire set was reprints, which led to all sorts of problems.
Cards were pulled from specific story/flavor environments where they fit and are now thrown together with each other. Resonance was gone.
Since the set was only reprints, the desire to buy the set wasn't there for experienced players - you already had lots of the cards. The set was more a list of cards that were standard legal than an actual product you were interested in.
M10: - Rebirth of the Core
In many ways, this set was a return to the original base set.
Flavor and Resonance were prioritized, fixing the issue of the patchwork feeling of prior base sets.
New cards are in, meaning this is a product that experienced players will actually want.
Basically, the reinvention of the core set was a home run.
M11 - M15: - Consistency breeds boredom
There's a lot to like in these sets. Not all of them are the same level of success, but in general, they were solid.
There were problems that cropped up, however.
They blend together. While there are some identifying characteristics, the sets blended together after awhile. It was like a story where all the friends of the main character are named 'Steve'. A lot of the time you'll be asking "Which Steve is that again?"
Annual rotation of the Core Set compared to the every two years rotation of the numbered editions was not always a positive change. Some cards rotated too quickly. Other cards stayed in the set and were reprinted, which was both a blessing and a curse. It's great that the Titans you were excited to get aren't rotating, but it also means you are buying a new product and could get stuck with chase cards that you already acquired (also didn't help the sets differentiate from each other). The half reprints was both a positive and negative, and certainly raised the issue of the set being more a list of standard playable cards than a product, but not entirely.
Origins: Stopping point
This set had a hook to differentiate it from the previous base sets, so that's good. But it was R&D acknowledging the problems that existed with the Core sets and saying we need to try something different.
Looking at the game without a core set, there is a void. While the storylines and specific and flavorful worlds are great, there is a need for somewhere that feels normal.
We need a new M10. Something resonant, nonspecific, and exciting to new and old player alike. Being several years removed from the last Core Set, I am confident that Wizards can give us a new Core set that meets that criteria. I just don't know where you go from there.
I think the real magic of core sets was that they worked well with the expansion sets. It allowed for some solid base mechanics and reprints without having to worry about the themes or mechanics of a block. Conversely the other expansions sets mean that we get new mechanics to explore and try out, and potentially use to break standard for a few months at a time.
All that said I am personally hella excited for the core set to be coming out, gonna take me back to a time before origins when core sets were the just expected each year.
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When I look at M10 for example, I almost don't see 'word salad' cards such as you find in more recent sets (and older ones too). The 'word salad' aspect is just one thing though, because of course you have simple designs in regular sets as well. However, the fact that you don't need to introduce signature mechanics from the set and paint a picture of a particular world gives core sets a more accurate 'Magic: the Gathering' feeling to me. It is as if core sets were the ones that best captured the essence of Magic itself, because you aren't constrained by arbitrary rules of design, and you can just focus in making simple cards that represent the essence of each color, while also reprinting cards that better captured that essence over the years.
For instance, in M10 you find rampant growth, oakenform, kalonian behemoth, pyroclasm, manabarbs, magma phoenix, weakness, royal assassin, sign in blood, merfolk looter, negate, sleep, silence, white knight and planar cleansing. All of these cards feel more as what the core of magic should be about. They're not constrained by any particular world or plane, they just are the essence of what each color represents. I have the impression that if every set of magic was like a core set the game would feel better to play. I know this is a weird thing to say because it is primarily a subjective feeling, but especially in the more recent sets the cards just look gimmick. We have a steampunk set in Kaladesh and an Egyptian set in Amonketh, and both don't feel like Magic: the Gathering at all to me.
I hope this makes some sense to people, because I would like to know what your opinion is on the matter, if anybody else feels the same. To help clarify it: whenever the commander product is released, the singleton cards that are not trying to represent the commander set's mechanics also capture the same feel that the core sets have. As examples I could point out to scavenging ooze, reef worm, duelist's heritage, deadly tempest and witch hunt.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
There's a sweet spot of complexity that I think only Origins got close to right (unfortunately, Origins was also released when WotC decided to drop their 20 year tradition of playable ramp, kill spells and burn, but the complexity was pretty close to my ideal for a Core set).
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
M10 brilliant- the ones in between- not so much.
I really miss the literary quotes from early Mtg Auden, Shakey etc. But there is no denying that a story-free base set would offer a genuine respite for those of us who dislike the story aspect of the game. When a card is suggested anywhere you so often hear "they can't do that because chandra did this to that and Elsepth is dead" etc. I dislike that intensely, and would be happy for a base set with generic cards.
Finally, there is a issue of flavor that is particular important to me. Core sets capture the flavor of Magic in a way that other sets don't seem capable of. When I was a kid I recall seeing cards such as dark banishing and force of nature, cards that not only had widely different artworks but also represented a medieval looking fantasy world. That is why I liked magic. I started playing before Mirrodin was released, and almost every card from every set I saw had that medieval-looking feel to it. Some did better than others, but none did better than the core sets. However, after Mirrodin, Ravnica and now Theros and Kaladesh, Magic seems to be going to all sorts of places to release new cards. I'm not a fan of that. Some fantasies just don't seem to fit well in what Magic looks like. And the artwork? It all became so... uniform, as if the artists are bound to depict all cards from the set in pretty much the same way, using the same coloring and techniques. I deeply despise that. I realize the flavor aspect is entirely personal, and I admit that I enjoyed some of the new worlds we saw, such as Lorwyn, Zendikar and Innistrad, but in my mind the worlds that I liked didn't distance themselves so much from the original medieval theme that I so thoroughly enjoy.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I'd say M13 was just as good as these. Exalted is a nice mechanic and the 5 rare legends were all straightforward.
Core sets definitely do need to return, both to have a return to resonant high fantasy every so often and to have a more flavor-neutral setting to reprint cards. Also a way to ensure each color in standard has access to its core mechanics and a reasonable set of answers. Using the core set to ensure cards like Banishing Light or Hero's Downfall remain in standard regardless of whatever the blocks are doing should help the "oh crap, we forgot to print enough answers. Ban ******* everything." problem they recently had.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Unlike previous Artifact sets, Artifacts were not the problems with Kaladesh. Energy was.
Wait a month and buy Dominaria? Then the Core Set will come out and it will be generic fantasy.
Core sets can still be drafted alone, but core sets should be designed to be draft alongside the 3 block expansion sets that come after it.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Looking at the history of the Core Set, it's interesting to see what's succeeded and where problems have sprung up.
Alpha, Beta, Unlimited - Baseline
You start with a solid baseline. The initial set was a success and what the game was built on. You had a broad, resonant environment not tied to a specific story that drew players in.
4th - 10th Edition: - Nothing but reprints
Any specific set aside, this is the dark age of core sets. These sets failed to establish a "Core". The entire set was reprints, which led to all sorts of problems.
Cards were pulled from specific story/flavor environments where they fit and are now thrown together with each other. Resonance was gone.
Since the set was only reprints, the desire to buy the set wasn't there for experienced players - you already had lots of the cards. The set was more a list of cards that were standard legal than an actual product you were interested in.
M10: - Rebirth of the Core
In many ways, this set was a return to the original base set.
Flavor and Resonance were prioritized, fixing the issue of the patchwork feeling of prior base sets.
New cards are in, meaning this is a product that experienced players will actually want.
Basically, the reinvention of the core set was a home run.
M11 - M15: - Consistency breeds boredom
There's a lot to like in these sets. Not all of them are the same level of success, but in general, they were solid.
There were problems that cropped up, however.
They blend together. While there are some identifying characteristics, the sets blended together after awhile. It was like a story where all the friends of the main character are named 'Steve'. A lot of the time you'll be asking "Which Steve is that again?"
Annual rotation of the Core Set compared to the every two years rotation of the numbered editions was not always a positive change. Some cards rotated too quickly. Other cards stayed in the set and were reprinted, which was both a blessing and a curse. It's great that the Titans you were excited to get aren't rotating, but it also means you are buying a new product and could get stuck with chase cards that you already acquired (also didn't help the sets differentiate from each other). The half reprints was both a positive and negative, and certainly raised the issue of the set being more a list of standard playable cards than a product, but not entirely.
Origins: Stopping point
This set had a hook to differentiate it from the previous base sets, so that's good. But it was R&D acknowledging the problems that existed with the Core sets and saying we need to try something different.
Looking at the game without a core set, there is a void. While the storylines and specific and flavorful worlds are great, there is a need for somewhere that feels normal.
We need a new M10. Something resonant, nonspecific, and exciting to new and old player alike. Being several years removed from the last Core Set, I am confident that Wizards can give us a new Core set that meets that criteria. I just don't know where you go from there.
All that said I am personally hella excited for the core set to be coming out, gonna take me back to a time before origins when core sets were the just expected each year.