I'm missing the novelty on new cards. It all feels like a different card to do the same thing you did last set with another card. I loved suspend for example, because it made the game actually play out different. I would have absolutely loved conspiracies for exmaple, if they were not only usable when drafted. Something like that. It's been a long while since we had that.
I also feel a lot of the abilities are more railroaded, preventing advanced plays like how most sacrifice abilities now say: "sacrifice another" and most negative effects can only be used on your opponent's stuff and positive effects only affect your own stuff. Let's just say Magic is more "rubber tiled" than it used to be.
Also, I realize not all legends are made for commander but I'm missing legends that have more build around me depth: commanders like Zedruu, Derevi, or Riku that allow for multiple and unique deck angles.
As a comment on your second edit: That is why I didn't say portal 1. That was the set that got me playing magic and I sorely miss having all the cool playable sorceries.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm missing the novelty on new cards. It all feels like a different card to do the same thing you did last set with another card. I loved suspend for example, because it made the game actually play out different. I would have absolutely loved conspiracies for exmaple, if they were not only usable when drafted. Something like that. It's been a long while since we had that.
To be fair, they just did vehicles and energy.
Besides they can't just turn the game upside down every expansion set. The game would lose its identity and become unrecognizable really quick.
The only thing I can think that Wizards did was wrong was not offering a Foil Force of Will in every damn pack. And those cycling 'land type' dual lands come in play tapped!!!!
(I'm being sarcastic... I don't think wizards did anything wrong, actually this new set is much better than the vehicle set. )
Try the first standard versus todays standard. Uses the same 4-of card rule, 60 min deck size, 15 sideboard max size.
Taken directly from the Duelist Magazine is the rules for the first standard format.
First Standard Legal Sets: The Dark, Fallen Empires and Revisied Edition.
No more than 1 (one) of each of the cards on the Restricted List are allowed in the Type II tournament deck (including Sideboard). If more than 1 (one) of any individual card from the Restricted List are found in a player's deck and Sideboard, that will be interpreted by the Judge as a Declaration of
Forfeiture. The Restricted List may be modified by the Director of the Duelists' Convocation as necessary. The Restricted List is as follows:
Braingeyser
Channel
Copy Artifact
Demonic Tutor
Ivory Tower
Maze of Ith
Mind Twist
Regrowth
Sol Ring
Wheel of Fortune
For ease of use, all cards from the basic set that no longer appear in the
most current Revised Edition are listed here. Other cards may be banned as
well. The Banned List may be modified by the Director of the Duelists'
Convocation as necessary. The following cards are banned from the Type II
tournament deck:
* : Banned from play, as card states to remove from deck before
playing if not playing for ante. This tournament type does not require that
ante be wagered.
If you see a particularly odd card in either list like Ironclaw Orcs, it was an issue of corners being rounded and thus considered marked.
Honestly I would say yesteryear's standard would thrash today's standard. We may not have had the most impressive creatures for our time, but we had a wealth of other powerful cards that ran the gambit through the other card types.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the game per se. Maybe they are releasing too many products too soon like Eternal Masters and Conspiracy 2 releases were too close with each other as well other products like Planeschase rerelease.
MTG is also cyclical. Some players tend to have "fatigue" and stop playing and coming back. I guess lot of people who picked up the game during the growth period are now temporally stopping playing/purchasing MTG for a variety of reasons. When those cycles happen WotC starts to react, but results take time to show. With the latest period of growth experienced by their company, shareholders may have put too much pressure to keep up, speeding up this cyclical down period.
Maybe in the end it's just a matter of perception.
This is probably more speculation and hypothesis, but I got the feeling the real reason we are seeing the standard we are seeing now is because they have
1) too many cooks in the kitchen.
2) Poor communication with the player base.
3) Are trying to build around a competitive scene that has internet access and impacts the costs of magic more than all the casual community combined.
and finally 4) they want to make sure their best cards are very hard to answer.
They literally do not want to print cards like Armageddon, Time Twister, or even something as basic as Counterspell, because they got planeswalkers and mythic powerhouses that just get shut down super efficiently by these cards that were once available at the common and uncommon levels.
Also, what is ruining standard as well is the insistence on building two different sets of cards in each set. Take for example Plague Belcher and Cursed Minotaur. Why would someone play the later under any situation? Non-existent Minotaur tribal? The former is the playable card, the later is the one that will collect dust in bulk bins once draft is over because that is literally all it was made for, and they waste space in packs on these redundant pieces of complete garbage. This isn't even going into how deck builder tool kits, planeswalker decks, and all the "casual" products are literally on the same level as the draft cards. When I started playing magic, even casual players got good quality cards (unless you started in Ancient Empires / homelands). Portal was a really powerful set for a beginners set and the later two iterations were quite good as well.
I really don't get why they need bad cards for draft and constructed cards being all placed at mythic and rare. It just forces one group of players into buying singles and the other group to just throw out 90% of what they pick up unless they play commander. Heck, even if the commons are just a smidge less potent than the rares and uncommons that would be a huge upgrade over the current state where the good cards just super outclass the commons.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
How much money are those Vintage and Legacy players spending on packs and boxes? The answer is little to nothing. The older players do not support the business like the Standard and Limited players do. I know Legacy and Vintage players that have not spent a dime on cards in years. Just entry fees which are usually 100% payout so the LGS makes zero off them.
My local legacy scene consists of about 15 players or so, I know at least 2 of them buy a case every time a new set comes out from the local shops. They all play a lot of standard too. They don't seem to care for modern though. They're generally older and have real jobs and can just buy boxes whenever they feel like it. I always felt like it was a huge loss for wizards to not cater to the legacy scene, but maybe stuff like eternal masters can fix that.
But maybe the other 13 players aren't spending anything so who knows. I guess it depends on how you look at it.
I would ask are they collectors? Do they open those cases and sell/trade? Are they trying to make their money back off the cases?
I know some Legacy players that buy Standard boxes/cases just to have trade fodder.
The casual crowd is what keeps the game going. Those guys buy packs and boxes every time they are in the LGS.
Quote from Colt47 »
This is probably more speculation and hypothesis, but I got the feeling the real reason we are seeing the standard we are seeing now is because they have
1) too many cooks in the kitchen.
I feel its the other way around. They only have a few people that work on sets and cards. Hard to push limits with the same people doing the same thing. Not that Wotc could bring new blood in every set.
2) Poor communication with the player base.
The game has been around 20+ years. They talk to the players spending money and playing the game. They get information from LGS and events held weekly. As I have said numerous times before, they know they can not please everyone. No matter what they do or how they design, someone isnt going to like it. They have plenty of communication with the player base.
3) Are trying to build around a competitive scene that has internet access and impacts the costs of magic more than all the casual community combined.
I agree about the competitive scene, but that happens with any hobby with a competitive scene.
I dont agree about the cost aspect. The game has always been expensive to play relative to the economy at the time.
4) they want to make sure their best cards are very hard to answer.
This I dont agree with at all. Every card they print has an answer. Certain parts of the player base just wants generic catch all answers to everything. That would be terrible for the game in my opinion. Deck building has already been weakened, we dont need it weakened any more.
no, they play a lot of sanctioned competitive events. A lot of the stuff they open goes into standard decks. I guess they sometimes sell some of their expeditions/inventions and whatnot, but they just open a lot of stuff for the fun of it. Just wanted to point out the legacy players that are still very active in playing/buying/causal play ect.
Oh and casual players have these huge collections, easily at $25k and more. They're always buying from the vault sets, and modern masters boxes and just stashing the cards away for edh use and stuff. Yeah they definitely keep the game going.
I really don't get why they need bad cards for draft and constructed cards being all placed at mythic and rare. It just forces one group of players into buying singles and the other group to just throw out 90% of what they pick up unless they play commander. Heck, even if the commons are just a smidge less potent than the rares and uncommons that would be a huge upgrade over the current state where the good cards just super outclass the commons.
1) By definition, some bad cards have to exist. (The most important reason.)
2) Some cards are “bad” because they aren’t meant for you.
3) Some cards are “bad” because they’re designed for a less advanced player.
4) Some cards are “bad” because the right deck for them doesn’t exist yet.
5) “Bad” cards reward the more skilled player.
6) Some players enjoy discovering good “bad” cards.
7) Some “bad” cards are simply R&D goofing up.
Taken directly from a Mark Rosewater article "When Cards Go Bad" article. 2002 to be exact.
I really don't get why they need bad cards for draft and constructed cards being all placed at mythic and rare. It just forces one group of players into buying singles and the other group to just throw out 90% of what they pick up unless they play commander. Heck, even if the commons are just a smidge less potent than the rares and uncommons that would be a huge upgrade over the current state where the good cards just super outclass the commons.
1) By definition, some bad cards have to exist. (The most important reason.)
2) Some cards are “bad” because they aren’t meant for you.
3) Some cards are “bad” because they’re designed for a less advanced player.
4) Some cards are “bad” because the right deck for them doesn’t exist yet.
5) “Bad” cards reward the more skilled player.
6) Some players enjoy discovering good “bad” cards.
7) Some “bad” cards are simply R&D goofing up.
Taken directly from a Mark Rosewater article "When Cards Go Bad" article. 2002 to be exact.
That statement was made over a decade ago and really doesn't apply to the current situation with draft. Right now they made bad cards because they needed something for draft. That's far different than even reason number 3 or even number 2. His statement was more about sets that were out at the time that followed a very different design philosophy than we have today.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I really don't get why they need bad cards for draft and constructed cards being all placed at mythic and rare. It just forces one group of players into buying singles and the other group to just throw out 90% of what they pick up unless they play commander. Heck, even if the commons are just a smidge less potent than the rares and uncommons that would be a huge upgrade over the current state where the good cards just super outclass the commons.
1) By definition, some bad cards have to exist. (The most important reason.)
2) Some cards are “bad” because they aren’t meant for you.
3) Some cards are “bad” because they’re designed for a less advanced player.
4) Some cards are “bad” because the right deck for them doesn’t exist yet.
5) “Bad” cards reward the more skilled player.
6) Some players enjoy discovering good “bad” cards.
7) Some “bad” cards are simply R&D goofing up.
Taken directly from a Mark Rosewater article "When Cards Go Bad" article. 2002 to be exact.
That statement was made over a decade ago and really doesn't apply to the current situation with draft. Right now they made bad cards because they needed something for draft. That's far different than even reason number 3 or even number 2. His statement was more about sets that were out at the time that followed a very different design philosophy than we have today.
Sure it does. Those bad cards exist because they:
A) Aren’t meant for you.
B) Are designed for a less advanced player.
C) Reward the more skilled player.
You are a skilled drafter, so you can tell off the bat that a vanilla Gray Ogre is horrible value and avoid picking it unless you are forced to grab dirt. For the person next to you however, this is their first draft and the Gray Ogre you passed them is meant to test their drafting skills.
What you, Colt, actually want R&D to make is a Cube. Other card games have adopted Cubes and also sell a pre-built one for an affordable price that by itself has many quality cards and none or at least very very few junk cards within it.
I really don't get why they need bad cards for draft and constructed cards being all placed at mythic and rare. It just forces one group of players into buying singles and the other group to just throw out 90% of what they pick up unless they play commander. Heck, even if the commons are just a smidge less potent than the rares and uncommons that would be a huge upgrade over the current state where the good cards just super outclass the commons.
1) By definition, some bad cards have to exist. (The most important reason.)
2) Some cards are “bad” because they aren’t meant for you.
3) Some cards are “bad” because they’re designed for a less advanced player.
4) Some cards are “bad” because the right deck for them doesn’t exist yet.
5) “Bad” cards reward the more skilled player.
6) Some players enjoy discovering good “bad” cards.
7) Some “bad” cards are simply R&D goofing up.
Taken directly from a Mark Rosewater article "When Cards Go Bad" article. 2002 to be exact.
That statement was made over a decade ago and really doesn't apply to the current situation with draft. Right now they made bad cards because they needed something for draft. That's far different than even reason number 3 or even number 2. His statement was more about sets that were out at the time that followed a very different design philosophy than we have today.
Sure it does. Those bad cards exist because they:
A) Aren’t meant for you.
B) Are designed for a less advanced player.
C) Reward the more skilled player.
You are a skilled drafter, so you can tell off the bat that a vanilla Gray Ogre is horrible value and avoid picking it unless you are forced to grab dirt. For the person next to you however, this is their first draft and the Gray Ogre you passed them is meant to test their drafting skills.
What you, Colt, actually want R&D to make is a Cube. Other card games have adopted Cubes and also sell a pre-built one for an affordable price that by itself has many quality cards and none or at least very very few junk cards within it.
And then little Timmy never drafted again because R&D punished him on purpose for being new.
Intentionally bad cards don't need to exist. Suboptimal cards are fine, Doom Blade vs Murder or Zombify vs Rise from the Grave actually teach you deckbuilding and are useful in context. But current sets are filled with cards that pretty much have absolutely no use other than being much worse versions of rares, so that you can be tilted harder when one guy wins by just opening better boosters.
A) Aren’t meant for you.
B) Are designed for a less advanced player.
C) Reward the more skilled player.
You are a skilled drafter, so you can tell off the bat that a vanilla Gray Ogre is horrible value and avoid picking it unless you are forced to grab dirt. For the person next to you however, this is their first draft and the Gray Ogre you passed them is meant to test their drafting skills.
What you, Colt, actually want R&D to make is a Cube. Other card games have adopted Cubes and also sell a pre-built one for an affordable price that by itself has many quality cards and none or at least very very few junk cards within it.
And then little Timmy never drafted again because R&D punished him on purpose for being new.
Intentionally bad cards don't need to exist. Suboptimal cards are fine, Doom Blade vs Murder or Zombify vs Rise from the Grave actually teach you deckbuilding and are useful in context. But current sets are filled with cards that pretty much have absolutely no use other than being much worse versions of rares, so that you can be tilted harder when one guy wins by just opening better boosters.
Current sets? This has been going on for years. I don't know where you've been if its only current for you. As even beloved limited formats that are done and gone now have such fodder.
Yes chaff is ever present but before it used to be that "open this and auto-win" was a rare happenstance with limited-broken cards like Jitte, Bloodchief Drana and Pack Rat. Nowadays you open a planeswalker and are almost 100% assured to win the draft because there really isn't a way to oppose them. And old chaff was mostly wonky experimental stuff or the actually necessary vanillas. Nowadays there's a ton of cards that are just worse versions of rares as if people didn't know by now that rarity and power pretty much became one with the frame change.
Yes chaff is ever present but before it used to be that "open this and auto-win" was a rare happenstance with limited-broken cards like Jitte, Bloodchief Drana and Pack Rat. Nowadays you open a planeswalker and are almost 100% assured to win the draft because there really isn't a way to oppose them. And old chaff was mostly wonky experimental stuff or the actually necessary vanillas. Nowadays there's a ton of cards that are just worse versions of rares as if people didn't know by now that rarity and power pretty much became one with the frame change.
I will agree with you on bombs like planeswalkers and personally I never liked seeing them in draft. Feels incredibly annoying to play against.
As for the more recent chaff in sets, its been growing like weeds. I would have hoped personally when they were aiming to cut back down on set size like with Alara that they would also have cut down on the chaff. Seems like I've been quite mistaken for years in that vain hope.
Do you even play limited? Good common and uncommon removal makes combat tricks and auras unplayable and reduces the variety of the format.
Yes. Also I can't help but feel this comment was aimed at a different user. Unless you assumed I was referring to cards like Murder as fodder? If so, I think you jumped the gun on your retort.
Yes, Magic needs change. Maybe now is time for a big change?
I get that you prefer formats where everyone is playing a "fair" deck. 5 years ago, an enormous percent of the player base was new, and wanted this too. But (unlike you), most players who have been around for a while start craving a deeper and more diverse mets (meaning more varied play-styles). They also become happier with less intuitive rules and interactions. The new players WotC have been courting are no longer new, and they are getting tired of the ultra newb-friendly environments.
The change is in the air. As you say, "every couple years a post like this pops up". It seems in the past there were a lot more posters who felt the same as you. Not so now.
I know you have enjoyed the NWO era, but ironically you are starting to become the guy who wants their "favourite time in magic" to last forever.
Yes, Magic needs change. Maybe now is time for a big change?
I get that you prefer formats where everyone is playing a "fair" deck. 5 years ago, an enormous percent of the player base was new, and wanted this too. But (unlike you), most players who have been around for a while start craving a deeper and more diverse mets (meaning more varied play-styles). They also become happier with less intuitive rules and interactions. The new players WotC have been courting are no longer new, and they are getting tired of the ultra newb-friendly environments.
The change is in the air. As you say, "every couple years a post like this pops up". It seems in the past there were a lot more posters who felt the same as you. Not so now.
I know you have enjoyed the NWO era, but ironically you are starting to become the guy who wants their "favourite time in magic" to last forever.
I have been playing this game since its inception.
Right now in Standard, we are at a low point. But we just came out of an amazing time for Standard about a year or so back. The game ebbs and flows. People expect those high times to be here all the time. It just doesnt work that way. It never has.
Every few years a group of disgruntled players claim the game is dying. This has been going on for 20 years. Yet the game continues on.
On a side note, people are comparing todays Standard to when Portal was legal. People just gloss over the fact there were no older sanctioned formats when Portal came out. Now there is a stepping stone of power level from format to format. Limited being the lowest in power, then Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. Huge difference in design and development between then and now. If Standard was as strong as it was when Portal was out, there would be no need for any of the other formats.
One other thing. The talk about Limited and having unbeatable cards in packs for sealed or drafting 'that' card to win. That is false in this day and age in Limited. Back in the day yes. But now Limited (more draft) is pretty balanced now and sitting at a table with good drafters will all have pretty equal decks.
Regardless of one's stance on mechanics, I do feel that wotc has very little feedback from the community and their strategy of keeping modern expensive to push standard is backfiring. New players have to see both wizards best and worst efforts, and right now, with minimal new blood getting exposed to the "good" of yesteryear there is a lot of comparing bad to bad.
At the end of the day it's the players that say what is good, not the designers. They need to print what people want to buy. They also need to do this in non-luxury sets. Everyone from little Timmy to the hardcore gp grinder or collector needs exposure to the good and bad of magic.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yes chaff is ever present but before it used to be that "open this and auto-win" was a rare happenstance with limited-broken cards like Jitte, Bloodchief Drana and Pack Rat. Nowadays you open a planeswalker and are almost 100% assured to win the draft because there really isn't a way to oppose them. And old chaff was mostly wonky experimental stuff or the actually necessary vanillas. Nowadays there's a ton of cards that are just worse versions of rares as if people didn't know by now that rarity and power pretty much became one with the frame change.
Ha, what? The best way to oppose PW is also the most common thing in limited decks - creatures. While they occasionally misstep and print PW's that are way too good in limited (BFZ gideon anyone?), let's look at the PW's from the last 4 blocks - https://tinyurl.com/k89f29w - how many of those are truly broken in limited? BFZ gideon, Ugin, and maybe new lilli? Most of the others are expensive removal spells that gain you some life if you're behind, or card advantage engines. Yeah, they are very hard to beat if you're already behind when they come down, but lots of cards are.
Yes chaff is ever present but before it used to be that "open this and auto-win" was a rare happenstance with limited-broken cards like Jitte, Bloodchief Drana and Pack Rat. Nowadays you open a planeswalker and are almost 100% assured to win the draft because there really isn't a way to oppose them. And old chaff was mostly wonky experimental stuff or the actually necessary vanillas. Nowadays there's a ton of cards that are just worse versions of rares as if people didn't know by now that rarity and power pretty much became one with the frame change.
Ha, what? The best way to oppose PW is also the most common thing in limited decks - creatures. While they occasionally misstep and print PW's that are way too good in limited (BFZ gideon anyone?), let's look at the PW's from the last 4 blocks - https://tinyurl.com/k89f29w - how many of those are truly broken in limited? BFZ gideon, Ugin, and maybe new lilli? Most of the others are expensive removal spells that gain you some life if you're behind, or card advantage engines. Yeah, they are very hard to beat if you're already behind when they come down, but lots of cards are.
They are getting better. People should remember feedback from 6+ months ago is going to start cropping up in standard so we will see changes for the better. Hopefully...
My faith in wotc is at the same level of Nintendo right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They are getting better. People should remember feedback from 6+ months ago is going to start cropping up in standard so we will see changes for the better. Hopefully...
My faith in wotc is at the same level of Nintendo right now.
Now that you mention it, both WOTC and Nin. love to do false scarcity crap.....
You're being generous. PO2 had: Armageddon, Cruel Edict, Earthquake, Exhaustion, Hurricane, Piracy, Sleight of Hand, Stone Rain, Temporal Manipulation, Undo, and Wildfire.
I'd love a set that had that many cards I was interested in using.
Also: Portal sets had rad art.
2nd Edit: Holy butts, Portal 1 is even better. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?page=0&set=["Portal"]
That deck is still a ton of fun, and I built it for like, $25
Capitalism is my waifu, but you ain't just whistling Dixie, brother.
I also feel a lot of the abilities are more railroaded, preventing advanced plays like how most sacrifice abilities now say: "sacrifice another" and most negative effects can only be used on your opponent's stuff and positive effects only affect your own stuff. Let's just say Magic is more "rubber tiled" than it used to be.
Also, I realize not all legends are made for commander but I'm missing legends that have more build around me depth: commanders like Zedruu, Derevi, or Riku that allow for multiple and unique deck angles.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
As a comment on your second edit: That is why I didn't say portal 1. That was the set that got me playing magic and I sorely miss having all the cool playable sorceries.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To be fair, they just did vehicles and energy.
Besides they can't just turn the game upside down every expansion set. The game would lose its identity and become unrecognizable really quick.
WRONG?
WHAT IS WRONG????
The only thing I can think that Wizards did was wrong was not offering a Foil Force of Will in every damn pack. And those cycling 'land type' dual lands come in play tapped!!!!
(I'm being sarcastic... I don't think wizards did anything wrong, actually this new set is much better than the vehicle set. )
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Taken directly from the Duelist Magazine is the rules for the first standard format.
First Standard Legal Sets: The Dark, Fallen Empires and Revisied Edition.
Forfeiture. The Restricted List may be modified by the Director of the Duelists' Convocation as necessary. The Restricted List is as follows:
Braingeyser
Channel
Copy Artifact
Demonic Tutor
Ivory Tower
Maze of Ith
Mind Twist
Regrowth
Sol Ring
Wheel of Fortune
most current Revised Edition are listed here. Other cards may be banned as
well. The Banned List may be modified by the Director of the Duelists'
Convocation as necessary. The following cards are banned from the Type II
tournament deck:
* : Banned from play, as card states to remove from deck before
playing if not playing for ante. This tournament type does not require that
ante be wagered.
If you see a particularly odd card in either list like Ironclaw Orcs, it was an issue of corners being rounded and thus considered marked.
Honestly I would say yesteryear's standard would thrash today's standard. We may not have had the most impressive creatures for our time, but we had a wealth of other powerful cards that ran the gambit through the other card types.
Quite so, plus its aged very fine with what new cards have come along.
MTG is also cyclical. Some players tend to have "fatigue" and stop playing and coming back. I guess lot of people who picked up the game during the growth period are now temporally stopping playing/purchasing MTG for a variety of reasons. When those cycles happen WotC starts to react, but results take time to show. With the latest period of growth experienced by their company, shareholders may have put too much pressure to keep up, speeding up this cyclical down period.
Maybe in the end it's just a matter of perception.
1) too many cooks in the kitchen.
2) Poor communication with the player base.
3) Are trying to build around a competitive scene that has internet access and impacts the costs of magic more than all the casual community combined.
and finally 4) they want to make sure their best cards are very hard to answer.
They literally do not want to print cards like Armageddon, Time Twister, or even something as basic as Counterspell, because they got planeswalkers and mythic powerhouses that just get shut down super efficiently by these cards that were once available at the common and uncommon levels.
Also, what is ruining standard as well is the insistence on building two different sets of cards in each set. Take for example Plague Belcher and Cursed Minotaur. Why would someone play the later under any situation? Non-existent Minotaur tribal? The former is the playable card, the later is the one that will collect dust in bulk bins once draft is over because that is literally all it was made for, and they waste space in packs on these redundant pieces of complete garbage. This isn't even going into how deck builder tool kits, planeswalker decks, and all the "casual" products are literally on the same level as the draft cards. When I started playing magic, even casual players got good quality cards (unless you started in Ancient Empires / homelands). Portal was a really powerful set for a beginners set and the later two iterations were quite good as well.
I really don't get why they need bad cards for draft and constructed cards being all placed at mythic and rare. It just forces one group of players into buying singles and the other group to just throw out 90% of what they pick up unless they play commander. Heck, even if the commons are just a smidge less potent than the rares and uncommons that would be a huge upgrade over the current state where the good cards just super outclass the commons.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I would ask are they collectors? Do they open those cases and sell/trade? Are they trying to make their money back off the cases?
I know some Legacy players that buy Standard boxes/cases just to have trade fodder.
The casual crowd is what keeps the game going. Those guys buy packs and boxes every time they are in the LGS.
I feel its the other way around. They only have a few people that work on sets and cards. Hard to push limits with the same people doing the same thing. Not that Wotc could bring new blood in every set.
The game has been around 20+ years. They talk to the players spending money and playing the game. They get information from LGS and events held weekly. As I have said numerous times before, they know they can not please everyone. No matter what they do or how they design, someone isnt going to like it. They have plenty of communication with the player base.
I agree about the competitive scene, but that happens with any hobby with a competitive scene.
I dont agree about the cost aspect. The game has always been expensive to play relative to the economy at the time.
This I dont agree with at all. Every card they print has an answer. Certain parts of the player base just wants generic catch all answers to everything. That would be terrible for the game in my opinion. Deck building has already been weakened, we dont need it weakened any more.
no, they play a lot of sanctioned competitive events. A lot of the stuff they open goes into standard decks. I guess they sometimes sell some of their expeditions/inventions and whatnot, but they just open a lot of stuff for the fun of it. Just wanted to point out the legacy players that are still very active in playing/buying/causal play ect.
Oh and casual players have these huge collections, easily at $25k and more. They're always buying from the vault sets, and modern masters boxes and just stashing the cards away for edh use and stuff. Yeah they definitely keep the game going.
2) Some cards are “bad” because they aren’t meant for you.
3) Some cards are “bad” because they’re designed for a less advanced player.
4) Some cards are “bad” because the right deck for them doesn’t exist yet.
5) “Bad” cards reward the more skilled player.
6) Some players enjoy discovering good “bad” cards.
7) Some “bad” cards are simply R&D goofing up.
Taken directly from a Mark Rosewater article "When Cards Go Bad" article. 2002 to be exact.
That statement was made over a decade ago and really doesn't apply to the current situation with draft. Right now they made bad cards because they needed something for draft. That's far different than even reason number 3 or even number 2. His statement was more about sets that were out at the time that followed a very different design philosophy than we have today.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
A) Aren’t meant for you.
B) Are designed for a less advanced player.
C) Reward the more skilled player.
You are a skilled drafter, so you can tell off the bat that a vanilla Gray Ogre is horrible value and avoid picking it unless you are forced to grab dirt. For the person next to you however, this is their first draft and the Gray Ogre you passed them is meant to test their drafting skills.
What you, Colt, actually want R&D to make is a Cube. Other card games have adopted Cubes and also sell a pre-built one for an affordable price that by itself has many quality cards and none or at least very very few junk cards within it.
And then little Timmy never drafted again because R&D punished him on purpose for being new.
Intentionally bad cards don't need to exist. Suboptimal cards are fine, Doom Blade vs Murder or Zombify vs Rise from the Grave actually teach you deckbuilding and are useful in context. But current sets are filled with cards that pretty much have absolutely no use other than being much worse versions of rares, so that you can be tilted harder when one guy wins by just opening better boosters.
As for the more recent chaff in sets, its been growing like weeds. I would have hoped personally when they were aiming to cut back down on set size like with Alara that they would also have cut down on the chaff. Seems like I've been quite mistaken for years in that vain hope.
Yes. Also I can't help but feel this comment was aimed at a different user. Unless you assumed I was referring to cards like Murder as fodder? If so, I think you jumped the gun on your retort.
Yes, Magic needs change. Maybe now is time for a big change?
I get that you prefer formats where everyone is playing a "fair" deck. 5 years ago, an enormous percent of the player base was new, and wanted this too. But (unlike you), most players who have been around for a while start craving a deeper and more diverse mets (meaning more varied play-styles). They also become happier with less intuitive rules and interactions. The new players WotC have been courting are no longer new, and they are getting tired of the ultra newb-friendly environments.
The change is in the air. As you say, "every couple years a post like this pops up". It seems in the past there were a lot more posters who felt the same as you. Not so now.
I know you have enjoyed the NWO era, but ironically you are starting to become the guy who wants their "favourite time in magic" to last forever.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I have been playing this game since its inception.
Right now in Standard, we are at a low point. But we just came out of an amazing time for Standard about a year or so back. The game ebbs and flows. People expect those high times to be here all the time. It just doesnt work that way. It never has.
Every few years a group of disgruntled players claim the game is dying. This has been going on for 20 years. Yet the game continues on.
On a side note, people are comparing todays Standard to when Portal was legal. People just gloss over the fact there were no older sanctioned formats when Portal came out. Now there is a stepping stone of power level from format to format. Limited being the lowest in power, then Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. Huge difference in design and development between then and now. If Standard was as strong as it was when Portal was out, there would be no need for any of the other formats.
One other thing. The talk about Limited and having unbeatable cards in packs for sealed or drafting 'that' card to win. That is false in this day and age in Limited. Back in the day yes. But now Limited (more draft) is pretty balanced now and sitting at a table with good drafters will all have pretty equal decks.
Wasn't a year or so ago literally filled with nothing but Collected Company?
At the end of the day it's the players that say what is good, not the designers. They need to print what people want to buy. They also need to do this in non-luxury sets. Everyone from little Timmy to the hardcore gp grinder or collector needs exposure to the good and bad of magic.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ha, what? The best way to oppose PW is also the most common thing in limited decks - creatures. While they occasionally misstep and print PW's that are way too good in limited (BFZ gideon anyone?), let's look at the PW's from the last 4 blocks - https://tinyurl.com/k89f29w - how many of those are truly broken in limited? BFZ gideon, Ugin, and maybe new lilli? Most of the others are expensive removal spells that gain you some life if you're behind, or card advantage engines. Yeah, they are very hard to beat if you're already behind when they come down, but lots of cards are.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
They are getting better. People should remember feedback from 6+ months ago is going to start cropping up in standard so we will see changes for the better. Hopefully...
My faith in wotc is at the same level of Nintendo right now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Now that you mention it, both WOTC and Nin. love to do false scarcity crap.....
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588