Well, I wasn't talking about constructed. Still, these cards could see some kind of play, if there is a reward for building decks with synergy. Some of the best decks from the past were using horrible cards that are great only in a specific deck (goblins, slivers, affinity and so on). Pushing individual creatures (tarmo, snap etc) destroys the point of playing such decks. There was a series of articles on the main site describing some of the mistakes printed over the years - many of them were untested or changed at the last moment and WOTC have regretted printing them.
Even still I do agree I think creatures have gotten too powerful over all. The other big issue is the mechanics they've been playing with. The reason why blue got floored in a lot of it's utility is because of introducing mechanics like Storm and cascade. Heck, there was a time when fast mana really wasn't broken and there was a greater focus on balancing static resources like summoned creatures with one shot sorceries and instants. Players in the modern forums think bad feelings are to blame for the lack of Counterspell in the format, but the reality is with cards like Snapcaster Mage you suddenly go from having potentially 4 of counter magic to 8, which can be downright oppressive, and the kinds of plays someone could get from Turnabout thanks to really potent bombs like the Eldrazi titans prevents R&D from ever reprinting the card in standard under the current design philosophy. Also, if they do start reprinting strong spells and correct the balance of creatures to spells, modern will basically become unplayable turn 2 insanity like legacy and vintage. That's part of the reason why I think they will be starting a new non-rotating format if they change course.
While I can't quote on the vintage part of this, Legacy is NOT the format of turn two wins. Do they exsist sure but they are far from the defining featrues of the format.
That and what I like about legacy is that it isn't defined by being a competitive format like modern is. Legacy is much more casual fun and thanks to the format having no issues with proxies, we end up with a lot of really neat looking DYI projects and other things in the games. When I wrote that I was thinking of Vintage, which I got to witness a match of only twice and that is... one heck of a format. My apologies for tossing legacy into there.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern is more defined by its competitive scene, because it is outside of Standard (and potentially more so) the only other supported competitive format.
Which isn't to say one cannot brew, they can, only that one must be at least aware of the competitive bar they must meet, or they will be disappointed with how their experience goes.
There is zero risk of Modern becoming a turn 2 format.
That and what I like about legacy is that it isn't defined by being a competitive format like modern is. Legacy is much more casual fun and thanks to the format having no issues with proxies, we end up with a lot of really neat looking DYI projects and other things in the games. When I wrote that I was thinking of Vintage, which I got to witness a match of only twice and that is... one heck of a format. My apologies for tossing legacy into there.
Vintage is weird; games last all of 1 turn, games last 20 turns, and both are regular occurrences. Legacy is a contraction of that usually, games can end on turn 3 but if they don't they last till turn 10.
Anyway, this whole thread has been a helluva read. Know whats funny? Planeswalkers are (fundamentally) prison pieces. Look at the new Gideon; hell, look at the last Gideon. They sit on board and make you feel like you can't do anything. It's a core piece of functionality to planeswalkers, if they are good they act like prison, see lili and jace for details. It's really funny because prison is an "evil" archetype that makes people sad, but now you can get the same bad feels, with the added knowledge that your opponent dumped hundreds of dollars into a deck that you can't afford so they can take a dump on your useless commons, because good commons would ruin draft.
More seriously, something that has come up in this thread but I feel is worth emphasizing: I can build a budget modern deck for $50, and it can actually perform pretty well. I could also build a $50 standard deck, and it would perform terribly. WotC is making a very simple and grave error of not ensuring that Standard is the go-to budget format over Modern, and the only way to do this is to print solid, constructed playable common and uncommon cards.
Add to that, most Cube experiences. And the best part is that neither the reprint set nor any Cube is power creep: they're cards that already existed in the game, just with a much flatter power curve than normal sets that contain "draft chaff."
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
The problem is that Wotc is creatively bankrupt. We get in one set after another the conscription effect. Kaladesh block has 3 cards with this effect alone. Is this really what is neccessary for a good limited environment? Or are people currently in charge simply operating via checklist and putting the same cards with minor variations into set after set? Too strong for limited is always the reply when we are getting the same cards set after set. But you still get blown out by the guy who opened Gideon all the same. Isn't Gideon too strong?
Every set needs a rare Dragon, demon, angel, hydra, sphinx. But of course demons don't have drawbacks anymore that's too flavorful. Putting a +1+1 counter on a creature counts as a keyword apparently. The art is more uniform and generic, with some commons having absolutely terrible, cheap art, that looks heavily CGI and unfinished. Further solidifying their throwaway status as limited garbage. Green gets to do everything as long as it is somehow related to creatures, Blue is inneficient tempo. Colorless creatures like reality smasher are insane and go in every deck. If a creature has the words ''enters the battlefield or attacks'' everything is permitted. If a spell has the word ''counter'' it can't be better then cancel. Anyone remember Selesnya from original Ravnica? Green white control? Let's make it all about tokens in the sequel!
They are pushing a story. A story where characters are 100 year old powerful wizards that behave like 15 year old teenagers and destroy millenia old entities via teamwork. A story which tries to emulate what is popular currently. Super hero movies and young adult novels. Planes like Amonkhet become backdrops to this story. It's no longer about an Egyptian plane. It's about the GW story happening on a Egyptian themed plane. We have gotten 2 return sets back to back recently. They brought back iconic villains like Bolas and Phyrexians. Gimmicks like inventions and expeditions to try and sell more. Also increasing the number of products per year, with the new rebranded core sets (Masters editions) costing $10 per pack, while being careful not to disturb the secondary market too much.
Somewhere along the line it has become about what will hypothetically make the most money. Not about what is fun, original or healthy for the game.
Anyone in this thread who wants Wizards to know that they think, complete the Player Motivation Survey and tell them why you play Magic. The last section lets you write in anything that wasn't in the main body of the survey.
Cat Combo isn't banned in standard. At least the Amonkhet singles I want should be cheap for the near future.
Well, cheap if you mean something other than the namesake cards of the Green Red Gods archetype. I've got no idea if the market is just trying to amp prices on the last week before release, but those numbers look a bit high for those two gods and Rohas reminds me way too much of Green Gearhulk.
Edit: And listen to Seymour_TUBES! Go fill that survey out if you want to let wizards know how you feel about the state of things. Goodness knows they only seem to react to metrics.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Cat Combo isn't banned in standard. At least the Amonkhet singles I want should be cheap for the near future.
Well, cheap if you mean something other than the namesake cards of the Green Red Gods archetype. I've got no idea if the market is just trying to amp prices on the last week before release, but those numbers look a bit high for those two gods and Rohas reminds me way too much of Green Gearhulk.
Edit: And listen to Seymour_TUBES! Go fill that survey out if you want to let wizards know how you feel about the state of things. Goodness knows they only seem to react to metrics.
Expensive to one is just fine to others.
The market adjusts to the information and the players buy into it.
Like I have said before, if the players were not buying, those prices (you feel are high) wouldnt be so high
I mean, I haven't been buying single packs for...years. The price of boxes have gone down while the price of each pack has increased... I guess I'm an outlier.
On the flip side, of course the planeswalkers and Gods are expensive. Those are the "bring newbies in" cards. Here is a main character/heavy hitter. You want to be just like them. You want their powers you must get them in one of YOUR decks!
I mean, I know newbies that wanted Tibalt, because "he is a planeswalker and looks awesome!" In fact, that's how I traded my Tibalt.
Next SHOULD be the cards everyone is using, like Aether Hub and Fatal Push. If a card does well in big tournaments, of course the demand goes up and so too the price.
Now I have one of those "I like character _____" people at home, so I basically have to wait until these bad boys and girls drop out of standard and the public eye...which is how I picked up an Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger for $9 NM and how I picked up an Ali from Cairo for $20 three years ago. Now if only any version of Forcefield would drop down to be that cheap.
Is WotC particularly grabby for money of late? Yes, they are. Truth be told if I had more time with a decidcated group, I would have bought the Planechase Anthology. Does anyone else remember how Modern Masters was a literal rare treat, not an annual/semi?(look up the supposed fall masters set) occurrence like Commander.
I think annual commander (aside from the old 3-packs with a promo now costing $12 instead of $10) is the biggest disappointment. I was really hoping that Commander, like Planechase, would only happen every year or so, in a sort of variant cycle (kind of like how Mountain Dew Livewire and Game Fuel aren't sold every year; makes finding them extra special[if you like them]).
I guess my greatest regret about what is wrong with Magic is me: I have no time to join a dedicated group, I have too many cards that I have filed for trade that have never been seen by another person, and I'm at that stage of my life where if I really want any cards that is under $10, I can just order all of them online, which while saving money and time from buying packs and having to try to trade, really is just me keeping out of the loop.
Now this is where I think I might sound crazy, but I would be more happy with the next commander set being sold in packs rather than boxed decks. Each pack would be five dollars and just like how Master packs have an automatic premium(foil) card, each one of these packs would have a guaranteed legend. If I knew that set was coming, I would make sure my schedule was opened so I could draft the heck out of it.
Cat Combo isn't banned in standard. At least the Amonkhet singles I want should be cheap for the near future.
Well, cheap if you mean something other than the namesake cards of the Green Red Gods archetype. I've got no idea if the market is just trying to amp prices on the last week before release, but those numbers look a bit high for those two gods and Rohas reminds me way too much of Green Gearhulk.
Edit: And listen to Seymour_TUBES! Go fill that survey out if you want to let wizards know how you feel about the state of things. Goodness knows they only seem to react to metrics.
Expensive to one is just fine to others.
The market adjusts to the information and the players buy into it.
Like I have said before, if the players were not buying, those prices (you feel are high) wouldnt be so high
Price alone doesn't indicate interest. The real way to gauge what they are worth is to go to some place like Ebay and see what auctions actually sold for the given cards. People can price things however they want, that doesn't mean they sell for that price. Always shop smart and avoid massive assumptions.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Cat Combo isn't banned in standard. At least the Amonkhet singles I want should be cheap for the near future.
Well, cheap if you mean something other than the namesake cards of the Green Red Gods archetype. I've got no idea if the market is just trying to amp prices on the last week before release, but those numbers look a bit high for those two gods and Rohas reminds me way too much of Green Gearhulk.
Edit: And listen to Seymour_TUBES! Go fill that survey out if you want to let wizards know how you feel about the state of things. Goodness knows they only seem to react to metrics.
Expensive to one is just fine to others.
The market adjusts to the information and the players buy into it.
Like I have said before, if the players were not buying, those prices (you feel are high) wouldnt be so high
Price alone doesn't indicate interest. The real way to gauge what they are worth is to go to some place like Ebay and see what auctions actually sold for the given cards. People can price things however they want, that doesn't mean they sell for that price. Always shop smart and avoid massive assumptions.
Buying on line is dangerous. Using strictly Ebay pricing is setting the market up for failure. Very easy for person 1 to put card(s) on Ebay and have a friend bid them up showing they sold for 'X' amount when in reality nothing changed hands. TCG is a bit safer because of some things put in place by TCG to discourage such activity. There is a reason LGS use TCG median when pricing their singles. Its probably the most accurate true pricing in the game.
In the end though, to some players $5 is too expensive for a card, others its $10-$20. Some have no issue with paying $50 or $100 a card. WHy would any company set a ceiling on pricing when there is so much money to be made?
This isnt the first time long time players have seen this trend or heard it from the player base. The game will go on.
Cat Combo isn't banned in standard. At least the Amonkhet singles I want should be cheap for the near future.
Well, cheap if you mean something other than the namesake cards of the Green Red Gods archetype. I've got no idea if the market is just trying to amp prices on the last week before release, but those numbers look a bit high for those two gods and Rohas reminds me way too much of Green Gearhulk.
Edit: And listen to Seymour_TUBES! Go fill that survey out if you want to let wizards know how you feel about the state of things. Goodness knows they only seem to react to metrics.
Expensive to one is just fine to others.
The market adjusts to the information and the players buy into it.
Like I have said before, if the players were not buying, those prices (you feel are high) wouldnt be so high
Price alone doesn't indicate interest. The real way to gauge what they are worth is to go to some place like Ebay and see what auctions actually sold for the given cards. People can price things however they want, that doesn't mean they sell for that price. Always shop smart and avoid massive assumptions.
Buying on line is dangerous. Using strictly Ebay pricing is setting the market up for failure. Very easy for person 1 to put card(s) on Ebay and have a friend bid them up showing they sold for 'X' amount when in reality nothing changed hands. TCG is a bit safer because of some things put in place by TCG to discourage such activity. There is a reason LGS use TCG median when pricing their singles. Its probably the most accurate true pricing in the game.
In the end though, to some players $5 is too expensive for a card, others its $10-$20. Some have no issue with paying $50 or $100 a card. WHy would any company set a ceiling on pricing when there is so much money to be made?
This isnt the first time long time players have seen this trend or heard it from the player base. The game will go on.
Ebay is a ton safer to use as a gauge for what is selling and usually reacts much faster than TCG player ever does. If something is going up than Ebay will be the first place I check and if something is going down it's the same story. Can people manipulate it? Well, yes, but that is why you don't look at one sale, you look at a bundle of them. As for why people buy into cards when they are at the highest cost: It's because they want to play those cards when they are the most popular or want to be the first person to get to use the card. Sellers just set the price and hope that the card is popular enough that people will buy at that price.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, looking at what wizards is doing now I really think what is wrong with magic is the use of luxury sets to do reprints instead of spreading more of them into standard. Long term having more reprints will lead to a healthier and happier community, let people migrate more easily between standard and modern, and drop prices on overpriced cards like noble hierarch. This also let's wizards ban cards more easily without worry of community backlash.
What they are doing now is almost like gutting the game for as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Throw all the expensive cards into luxury sets, focus on pop culture themes with little enduring value in standard, etc.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I remember the days when Wizards designated three skill levels on their products: Beginner, Advanced, and Expert. The Expert designation was reserved for the latest expansion. These days, expansions don't really feel like Expert with all the focus on creatures.
I almost feel like Wizards could simply divide Magic up in to Beginner and Expert sets, with special icons/text to denote them. While the cards would be cross-compatible, Wizards could actually design cards for two different metas, and tournaments could designate either Beginner-only or Expert-only. (i.e. Portal was a Beginner product that only had sorceries for noncreature spells.)
I sort of wish they would go back to that instead of the one size fits all mentality. Right now people are getting more divided financially than by skill.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I sort of wish they would go back to that instead of the one size fits all mentality. Right now people are getting more divided financially than by skill.
Well, right now Standard is completelly pay to win. Let a casual know the rules of vehicles and the "twin" interaction and he'll be winning FNMs with Mardu Vehicles even if he hasn't played Standard in years.
Try just handing a player MBC in RTR-THS Standard and he'd get demolished for bad play sequencing.
I sort of wish they would go back to that instead of the one size fits all mentality. Right now people are getting more divided financially than by skill.
Well, right now Standard is completelly pay to win. Let a casual know the rules of vehicles and the "twin" interaction and he'll be winning FNMs with Mardu Vehicles even if he hasn't played Standard in years.
Try just handing a player MBC in RTR-THS Standard and he'd get demolished for bad play sequencing.
Right now both modern and standard are basically pay to win. Modern is pay to win and then gamble on the dice depending on what sideboard the opponent is running as well and the Meta for modern is rather stagnant. Modern players view the format is healthy, so it makes it easy for wizards to sell luxury sets like Modern Masters 2017 and the upcoming Iconic Masters as a way to cash out on it while standard is weak.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My mind boggles at your posts Colt. It's like you don't even play the format, and I am dismayed you do not get infractions for Format Bashing.
If you got in on a deck when it was cheap, is it still pay to win? If I've been sitting on Deathsshadow for years, is that stale?
Ever consider it's you that has the faulty perceptions of a format that unless I'm crazy even pros have trouble complaining about now?
Modern is the premiere format in Magic right now, by interest, by views, and by Meta.
I'd love to see factual arguments that refute that statement.
I'm actually not bashing the format as the concept for it is fine. The issue is we are dealing with a company that is thinking on a different wave length than players. They are doing what I would expect a company to do if they think the format is going to start going the way wow did after wrath of the lich king and are doing slash and burn tactics instead of trying to grow the format.
If they wanted to grow modern they'd be putting more reprints in standard than just two or three notable ones, and they definitely wouldn't double up on the 10 USD msrp per booster luxury sets. Instead, I'd see them do a summer set like a normal 36 pack standard booster box each year in combination with higher reprint numbers in standard.
So to put it bluntly, I got a beef with wotc and their market strategy and it ends up the symptoms show up in modern? I'll try to tread more carefully on those waters in the future as it's obvious that modern health itself is subjective and a sensitive topic.
The other aspect of modern is there are different meta based on the generation of players playing thanks to the costs barring some decks from ever seeing play, so yes it is totally possible one player isn't playing the same modern as another player.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My mind boggles at your posts Colt. It's like you don't even play the format, and I am dismayed you do not get infractions for Format Bashing.
If you got in on a deck when it was cheap, is it still pay to win? If I've been sitting on Deathsshadow for years, is that stale?
Ever consider it's you that has the faulty perceptions of a format that unless I'm crazy even pros have trouble complaining about now?
Modern is the premiere format in Magic right now, by interest, by views, and by Meta.
I'd love to see factual arguments that refute that statement.
Modern is the premiere format, but it shouldn't be. Standard should be the premiere format. Modern being premiere over Standard is unhealthy for the game.
No, it is format bashing. The only consistent stance you take, is that its too expensive for you. If you have an issue with Wizards, and their Marketting, then discuss that. Do not claim that the meta is stale, that other decks cannot make inroads, that innovation does not take place, or that Standard cannot have cards make an impact, when all of those statements are patently false, to the point of being format bashing, or straight up lies.
thecasualoblivion: Your opinion, is that Standard should be the premiere format. Thats a nice opinion to have. It does not change the fact that if you want varied, and interesting game play, you will watch Modern, before you watch Standard.
i'd watch legacy or vntage instead of modern if i want to see a skill based game honestly.. seeing creatures attacking isn't exactly skill based decision games
That and what I like about legacy is that it isn't defined by being a competitive format like modern is. Legacy is much more casual fun and thanks to the format having no issues with proxies, we end up with a lot of really neat looking DYI projects and other things in the games. When I wrote that I was thinking of Vintage, which I got to witness a match of only twice and that is... one heck of a format. My apologies for tossing legacy into there.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Which isn't to say one cannot brew, they can, only that one must be at least aware of the competitive bar they must meet, or they will be disappointed with how their experience goes.
There is zero risk of Modern becoming a turn 2 format.
Spirits
Vintage is weird; games last all of 1 turn, games last 20 turns, and both are regular occurrences. Legacy is a contraction of that usually, games can end on turn 3 but if they don't they last till turn 10.
Anyway, this whole thread has been a helluva read. Know whats funny? Planeswalkers are (fundamentally) prison pieces. Look at the new Gideon; hell, look at the last Gideon. They sit on board and make you feel like you can't do anything. It's a core piece of functionality to planeswalkers, if they are good they act like prison, see lili and jace for details. It's really funny because prison is an "evil" archetype that makes people sad, but now you can get the same bad feels, with the added knowledge that your opponent dumped hundreds of dollars into a deck that you can't afford so they can take a dump on your useless commons, because good commons would ruin draft.
More seriously, something that has come up in this thread but I feel is worth emphasizing: I can build a budget modern deck for $50, and it can actually perform pretty well. I could also build a $50 standard deck, and it would perform terribly. WotC is making a very simple and grave error of not ensuring that Standard is the go-to budget format over Modern, and the only way to do this is to print solid, constructed playable common and uncommon cards.
My blood boils whenever I read this "alternative fact", specially when it comes from R&D.
The best draft set since Ravnica included Benevolent Bodyguard, Carrion Feeder, Counterspell, Deep Analysis, Duress, Fog, Innocent Blood, Keldon Marauders, Kird Ape, Llanowar Elves, Memory Lapse, Mogg Fanatic, Nimble Mongoose, Peregrine Drake, Phyrexian Rager, Tragic Slip and Werebear among it's commons.
At this point they'd save more face by having the balls to tell us they don't want commons to beat or even mildly inconvenience mythics and stop it with the bull***** excuses.
Add to that, most Cube experiences. And the best part is that neither the reprint set nor any Cube is power creep: they're cards that already existed in the game, just with a much flatter power curve than normal sets that contain "draft chaff."
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Every set needs a rare Dragon, demon, angel, hydra, sphinx. But of course demons don't have drawbacks anymore that's too flavorful. Putting a +1+1 counter on a creature counts as a keyword apparently. The art is more uniform and generic, with some commons having absolutely terrible, cheap art, that looks heavily CGI and unfinished. Further solidifying their throwaway status as limited garbage. Green gets to do everything as long as it is somehow related to creatures, Blue is inneficient tempo. Colorless creatures like reality smasher are insane and go in every deck. If a creature has the words ''enters the battlefield or attacks'' everything is permitted. If a spell has the word ''counter'' it can't be better then cancel. Anyone remember Selesnya from original Ravnica? Green white control? Let's make it all about tokens in the sequel!
They are pushing a story. A story where characters are 100 year old powerful wizards that behave like 15 year old teenagers and destroy millenia old entities via teamwork. A story which tries to emulate what is popular currently. Super hero movies and young adult novels. Planes like Amonkhet become backdrops to this story. It's no longer about an Egyptian plane. It's about the GW story happening on a Egyptian themed plane. We have gotten 2 return sets back to back recently. They brought back iconic villains like Bolas and Phyrexians. Gimmicks like inventions and expeditions to try and sell more. Also increasing the number of products per year, with the new rebranded core sets (Masters editions) costing $10 per pack, while being careful not to disturb the secondary market too much.
Somewhere along the line it has become about what will hypothetically make the most money. Not about what is fun, original or healthy for the game.
Player Motivation Survey
If they don't get any feedback, they'll never know how they ****ed up!
Well, cheap if you mean something other than the namesake cards of the Green Red Gods archetype. I've got no idea if the market is just trying to amp prices on the last week before release, but those numbers look a bit high for those two gods and Rohas reminds me way too much of Green Gearhulk.
Edit: And listen to Seymour_TUBES! Go fill that survey out if you want to let wizards know how you feel about the state of things. Goodness knows they only seem to react to metrics.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Expensive to one is just fine to others.
The market adjusts to the information and the players buy into it.
Like I have said before, if the players were not buying, those prices (you feel are high) wouldnt be so high
On the flip side, of course the planeswalkers and Gods are expensive. Those are the "bring newbies in" cards.
Here is a main character/heavy hitter. You want to be just like them. You want their powers you must get them in one of YOUR decks!
I mean, I know newbies that wanted Tibalt, because "he is a planeswalker and looks awesome!" In fact, that's how I traded my Tibalt.
Next SHOULD be the cards everyone is using, like Aether Hub and Fatal Push. If a card does well in big tournaments, of course the demand goes up and so too the price.
Now I have one of those "I like character _____" people at home, so I basically have to wait until these bad boys and girls drop out of standard and the public eye...which is how I picked up an Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger for $9 NM and how I picked up an Ali from Cairo for $20 three years ago. Now if only any version of Forcefield would drop down to be that cheap.
Is WotC particularly grabby for money of late? Yes, they are. Truth be told if I had more time with a decidcated group, I would have bought the Planechase Anthology. Does anyone else remember how Modern Masters was a literal rare treat, not an annual/semi?(look up the supposed fall masters set) occurrence like Commander.
I think annual commander (aside from the old 3-packs with a promo now costing $12 instead of $10) is the biggest disappointment. I was really hoping that Commander, like Planechase, would only happen every year or so, in a sort of variant cycle (kind of like how Mountain Dew Livewire and Game Fuel aren't sold every year; makes finding them extra special[if you like them]).
I guess my greatest regret about what is wrong with Magic is me: I have no time to join a dedicated group, I have too many cards that I have filed for trade that have never been seen by another person, and I'm at that stage of my life where if I really want any cards that is under $10, I can just order all of them online, which while saving money and time from buying packs and having to try to trade, really is just me keeping out of the loop.
Now this is where I think I might sound crazy, but I would be more happy with the next commander set being sold in packs rather than boxed decks. Each pack would be five dollars and just like how Master packs have an automatic premium(foil) card, each one of these packs would have a guaranteed legend. If I knew that set was coming, I would make sure my schedule was opened so I could draft the heck out of it.
Price alone doesn't indicate interest. The real way to gauge what they are worth is to go to some place like Ebay and see what auctions actually sold for the given cards. People can price things however they want, that doesn't mean they sell for that price. Always shop smart and avoid massive assumptions.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Buying on line is dangerous. Using strictly Ebay pricing is setting the market up for failure. Very easy for person 1 to put card(s) on Ebay and have a friend bid them up showing they sold for 'X' amount when in reality nothing changed hands. TCG is a bit safer because of some things put in place by TCG to discourage such activity. There is a reason LGS use TCG median when pricing their singles. Its probably the most accurate true pricing in the game.
In the end though, to some players $5 is too expensive for a card, others its $10-$20. Some have no issue with paying $50 or $100 a card. WHy would any company set a ceiling on pricing when there is so much money to be made?
This isnt the first time long time players have seen this trend or heard it from the player base. The game will go on.
Ebay is a ton safer to use as a gauge for what is selling and usually reacts much faster than TCG player ever does. If something is going up than Ebay will be the first place I check and if something is going down it's the same story. Can people manipulate it? Well, yes, but that is why you don't look at one sale, you look at a bundle of them. As for why people buy into cards when they are at the highest cost: It's because they want to play those cards when they are the most popular or want to be the first person to get to use the card. Sellers just set the price and hope that the card is popular enough that people will buy at that price.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What they are doing now is almost like gutting the game for as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Throw all the expensive cards into luxury sets, focus on pop culture themes with little enduring value in standard, etc.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I almost feel like Wizards could simply divide Magic up in to Beginner and Expert sets, with special icons/text to denote them. While the cards would be cross-compatible, Wizards could actually design cards for two different metas, and tournaments could designate either Beginner-only or Expert-only. (i.e. Portal was a Beginner product that only had sorceries for noncreature spells.)
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, right now Standard is completelly pay to win. Let a casual know the rules of vehicles and the "twin" interaction and he'll be winning FNMs with Mardu Vehicles even if he hasn't played Standard in years.
Try just handing a player MBC in RTR-THS Standard and he'd get demolished for bad play sequencing.
Right now both modern and standard are basically pay to win. Modern is pay to win and then gamble on the dice depending on what sideboard the opponent is running as well and the Meta for modern is rather stagnant. Modern players view the format is healthy, so it makes it easy for wizards to sell luxury sets like Modern Masters 2017 and the upcoming Iconic Masters as a way to cash out on it while standard is weak.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If you got in on a deck when it was cheap, is it still pay to win? If I've been sitting on Deathsshadow for years, is that stale?
Ever consider it's you that has the faulty perceptions of a format that unless I'm crazy even pros have trouble complaining about now?
Modern is the premiere format in Magic right now, by interest, by views, and by Meta.
I'd love to see factual arguments that refute that statement.
Spirits
I'm actually not bashing the format as the concept for it is fine. The issue is we are dealing with a company that is thinking on a different wave length than players. They are doing what I would expect a company to do if they think the format is going to start going the way wow did after wrath of the lich king and are doing slash and burn tactics instead of trying to grow the format.
If they wanted to grow modern they'd be putting more reprints in standard than just two or three notable ones, and they definitely wouldn't double up on the 10 USD msrp per booster luxury sets. Instead, I'd see them do a summer set like a normal 36 pack standard booster box each year in combination with higher reprint numbers in standard.
So to put it bluntly, I got a beef with wotc and their market strategy and it ends up the symptoms show up in modern? I'll try to tread more carefully on those waters in the future as it's obvious that modern health itself is subjective and a sensitive topic.
The other aspect of modern is there are different meta based on the generation of players playing thanks to the costs barring some decks from ever seeing play, so yes it is totally possible one player isn't playing the same modern as another player.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern is the premiere format, but it shouldn't be. Standard should be the premiere format. Modern being premiere over Standard is unhealthy for the game.
thecasualoblivion: Your opinion, is that Standard should be the premiere format. Thats a nice opinion to have. It does not change the fact that if you want varied, and interesting game play, you will watch Modern, before you watch Standard.
Spirits
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island