A simple question, what's wrong with today's Magic? I've heard many people express that something is wrong or missing from Magic products made today. What is it? Is it something real, that we can identify? Or is this just rose-colored nostalgia glasses from enfranchised players wishing for "the good ole' days"? I personally have it recently myself. I feel like some of the charm of the past is missing and that design has become too formulaic. Not that designs are bad, but that there is so much predictability. There is another dragon in the new set with the set's keyword on it. There is going to be a 2 mana bear with the small upside of the set's keyword ability. There will be a +2/+0 anthem ability in red with some type of mana reduction or buff depending on the set's theme. Is there just too much chaff every set? Hundreds of cards that have no real use outside of theme decks or limited? Have we just forgotten the chaff of the past? Like people claiming that music from bygone eras is better simply because they only remember the top ten songs of the decade and forget the literal hundreds of terrible and mediocre songs. What was Magic's best era and what made it special? I'd love to hear constructive thoughts on the matter and if this post is inappropriate or in the wrong spot I apologize and you can move or remove it as necessary.
A problem(not the only one) is that Modern overshadows Standard right now. Standard should be the flagship format of the game, and that it currently isn't is one of if not the biggest sign something is wrong.
I think they're so focused on keeping new players happy that they aren't doing much to keep older players happy. The sets are mostly designed for limited, and standard. With the new player focus, the sets tend to lack depth, which is what most more experienced players want. They like to think about the game, and have variation, and play through difficult situations. But the current set design tends create a whole lot of crap and a handful of cards that are very difficult to deal with cards, which often have very few answers.
A problem(not the only one) is that Modern overshadows Standard right now. Standard should be the flagship format of the game, and that it currently isn't is one of if not the biggest sign something is wrong.
This is a symptom, not the problem.
The problem is Standard only caters to a few shallow styles.
Where is Prison?
Where is Control?
Where is Land Destruction?
Modern allows you to play in many ways, Standard, simply doesn't.
The game just doesnt offer enough options for players anymore. Green doesnt get its mana dorks. Blue doesnt get its counterspells. White/Black doesnt get the really good sweepers. Red doesnt really get its multifuncional burn. Having a wide variety of options is good for the game. But people complain blue is no fun to play against and that no one should lose a round 1-0 and people complain that over extending in to a sweeper isnt fun and people complain that fighting against an sped up clock isnt fair, blah blah blah.
I also think eliminating the core set was a HUGE mistake. Many of the color "staples" were found in those sets.....Incinerate/Lightning Bolt, Mana Leak, Wrath of God, Llanowar Elves, etc. These were the "GLUE" cards that opened up the format and gave players more options.
Personally I think those are mixed in with an even more fundamental issue with magic: The death of the color pie. Magic is a complicated and interesting game because it disassociates roles from each other, and mixing those roles required effort.
Blue got counterspells, draw cards and weak creatures that were hard to block. It could not deal with aggro well but murdered midrange and combo decks. Counterspells and draw cards have been dramatically weakened while its creatures have gotten much better.
White had good one drops and anthems to win quickly, but was also the answer color. Exile effects, destroy none land permanents, and wipe the board were all glued to white but it couldn't interact with the hand or manipulate its draws. Wipes, anthems, and removal have all gotten worse while its 2+ critters have gotten better.
Black has pretty much always done everything everyone else does, but hurts itself. Black has been the strongest color since delver left standard and that isn't going to change.
Red was good card draw in the form of wheel effects, cheap land destruction, fast 1 drops, and good burn. The first two have been removed from the game, and the latter two have been nerfed by the increased potency of midrange creatures and the weakening of spot removal. Like white and blue it has gotten better creatures as a result.
Green was mana ramp, fatties and pump spells. It took over land destruction from red and black, but only attached to expensive creatures and spells. Green is better then it used to be but is still overshadowed by colorless and black.
Colorless: Used to be the realm of really crappy artifacts, now with vehicles and eldrazi is the best color in several formats. It is basically the color of giant creatures that for one reason or another ignore what removal there is (TKS is a Vendillion Clique with a great body, Reality Smasher has its counter the first spell effect, vehicles are only creatures on your turn).
Pushing back on color balance will do a lot to restore the diversity of the game and end the "fatties slapping at each other" nightmare.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
This is too strong for Standard. Now this is too strong for Standard. Now this is too strong for Standard. Now Standard sucks ass because there's little to no way to deal with the ridiculous creatures that somehow aren't too strong for Standard, yet manage to make an impact on Legacy sometimes.
In the name of keeping things from being "unfun" they're making the game dull and mundane and unfun.
I agree with every sentiment in this thread so far, and I've asked myself several times if I'm looking through rose-colored nostalgia glasses, and the answer is simply "no". The problem is that everything has become too formulaic, and they are so focused on newer players that older players are never thought about. I've been playing this game since I was 15 years old, and I'm going on 30 this year. And yet, all of the things I enjoyed playing (sweepers, land destruction, etc.) is completely gone. It is now "Battlecruiser Magic" where my big guy slams into your big guy, and it just isn't interesting. SaffronOlive over at mtggoldfish brought up a good point recently where he said that an issue was that Wizards was trying to eliminate "unfun" ways to lose, but the problem is, ALL types of losses are unfun. If you lose to counter.dec you're going to say "I hate counterspells"! and then in the same tournament if you lose to aggro you're going to hate aggro.
The format NEEDS all of those strategies to thrive. Look at the diversity from Mtg's past vs. today and that gives a little glimpse as to what the problem is.
This is too strong for Standard. Now this is too strong for Standard. Now this is too strong for Standard. Now Standard sucks ass because there's little to no way to deal with the ridiculous creatures that somehow aren't too strong for Standard, yet manage to make an impact on Legacy sometimes.
In the name of keeping things from being "unfun" they're making the game dull and mundane and unfun.
In fact the creatures are now amazingly strong in all colors. When you compare the hulks and titans to Gorilla Titan or shivan dragon, or that cards like wild mongrel, werebear and nimble mongoose ised to be legacy playable...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
A problem(not the only one) is that Modern overshadows Standard right now. Standard should be the flagship format of the game, and that it currently isn't is one of if not the biggest sign something is wrong.
This is a symptom, not the problem.
The problem is Standard only caters to a few shallow styles.
Where is Prison?
Where is Control?
Where is Land Destruction?
Modern allows you to play in many ways, Standard, simply doesn't.
Totally this
Magic has lost its magic, at least in standard. Standard used to be the frontier from which other formats look to for new tech. These days we look for "mistakes". TBH it is not too different. In the past there were only a few gems and the rest was chaff. So that part has'nt changed.
what changed was power creep and simplification of the game. Power creep kills the game true. But power creep also fuels the game and makes it interesting and makes it Magic If power creep was so bad old formats should just die out and be worthless. But that is not what happen. Instead they have now become reference points that standard is not supposed to reach This why standard is being overshadowed.
What might allow standard to be the current weak-card simmer pool and yet pull in crowds would be different ways of playing magic. For instance all the various casual formats, cube drafts. Or sets being more strongly in flavor or mechanics such that a block cube brings something everyone likes to the table. Essentially new games using magic rules (which is possible because of the depth and breath of Magic's structure as a game - which is actually awesome). I believe they are already going in direction while throwing bones to the older 60 card constructed formats. It is not terribad, its just not old magic. Which is what I as an old fart is missing from the current standard
For the older style for making magic where they were more "careless", there is potential even from weak\currently-useless cards that may have potential. Now a useless card tends to stay useless.
I suspect it is to save design space so they can squeeze out more value out from one set, given that they want to churn out more sets they have to spread the design equity out thinner, hence we see more weak cards. Weak cards allow more gradiated and variated power creeping, useful when they want to make a "chase" card.
Standard magic is a different game today from what it was 20 years ago. Its not necessarily bad. But it is thinner.
My familiarity is with red so that is my notice of the trends. Such as land destruction, good artifact removal, burn, etc.
For land destruction, the whole "tap target land, it doesn't untap during its controller's untap step" is very blue. Also that has been cannibalized by red to make up for the fact that land destruction has been practically stripped from it aside from something like Demolish.
For artifact removal, I've noticed a disturbing lack of instant-speed artifact removal. When I saw By Force, I was simultaneously joyful but also frustrated at the same time. Joyful as its more mana efficient artifact removal than Release the Gremlins. Frustrated because for months the artifact removal in red was weak.
Burn. Where to start? How about that we didn't get cost efficient red sweeper until Amonkhet with Sweltering Suns but instead we had stuff like Savage Alliance, Kozilek's Return gets a pass as at least it has the decency to be instant speed. How about that there is no two mana instant that deals three damage. That all we have is Incendiary Flow. If that spell was instant speed, there would be a few less problems in standard.
I will also take a potshot at the the Invocations. They are great as they get to be reprinted with new and good looking artwork. Yet look at the amount of answers stockpiled in them and how not a single one can be used in standard except the gods and Aven Mindcensor. Its like teasing a starving person with food. Seriously. I don't honestly care even if they are too strong for standard, they would solve so many problems.
So far the only plus side, aside from a few spells like Glorious End, is that red's creatures have gotten even better.
I'm going to agree and disagree with you a bit. Mostly agree, because I too have been playing a long time, since Fallen Empires in fact. I was 14 at the time, and now I'm almost 37.
One HUGE thing about playing back then was playing around counters. It taught you a ton about the game. Losing is a fantastic teaching tool. Should be anyway. Does having your board Wrathed suck? Sure, a couple times, then you learn to prepare for it and play around it, and wow holy *****, now you're better at Magic. To this day, I play like the opponent has a hand full of counters and removal. I bluff like I have a hand full of counters and removal.
The main part where I disagree with you, is losing being unfun. I went to a Legacy tournament, and totally scrubbed out. It was pathetic how bad I did. But I had a blast. Learning new decks was fun. Meeting new people was fun. I played against a dude who had some crazy Delver build, and it was the most fun match of the tournament even though I lost. Back in ancient times, I had a deck built around Desolation, and my friend had Turbo Stasis. It was a crazy battle of wits. He ended up winning, but that game has stuck in my mind since 1997.
Even as someone who has traditionally built Sligh/Ponza style decks throughout the years, I think it's easy to see that these non-stop bat***** insane creatures are damaging to the game. Pokemon is a great card game, but if I want to play Pokemon, I'd play Pokemon.
Consider also, Wizards choosing a younger, participation prize raised player base over an established, long term one who are older and likely have better paying jobs and more expendable income. I played Prosperous Bloom against a younger dude some time back, and all he did was piss and moan "Is it my turn yet?" like a broken record. I beat a guy at the Aether Revolt prerelease who got salty as **** that he lost. Get over it dude. I've lost hundreds of games of Magic in my life.
It feels like we're at a point where WotC just checks off cells on a spreadsheet to make sets now. There's no heart and soul anymore. It's cold, sterile, and corporate.
If you attempt to make a product for everyone, you end up making a product for no one.
Reading this and other similar threads I hear a number of things over and over again, the big one being that the midrange style of deck is being pushed at the expense of all else, supposedly in order to appeal to newer players or in response to customer research. Specifically:
1. Threats are strong and answers are weak, putting control at a disadvantage
2. Control being at a disadvantage means they see less play, and the blitz aggro decks that are strong against control are therefore weaker against the meta
3. Midrange decks tend to be weak vs combo, so the banlist tends to target combo decks harder to keep them in check, instead of strong control decks in the meta keeping them in check
4. As a result, the meta is flooded with midrange decks and competitive play is too often a midrange vs midrange mirror match
According to what the devs have said, this was done to appeal to newer players and/or because it is what their research told them players wanted. As for new players, speaking as a 20 year on and off veteran who has never played competitively and solely plays kitchen table magic with newbs this was doomed to failure. I can see where WotC might see the disconnect between newbie/casual play and competitive play might be a problem, but the disconnect is much deeper than pushing Midrange is going to solve. The biggest disconnect is between tuned and untuned decks, pushing midrange does absolutely nothing to solve that. Another disconnect is money, with newbie/casual players up against $200-300 competitive decks. Pushing midrange arguably makes this worse, as in my experience they tend to be the most expensive decks to build. All WotC has done is to force the competitive players to play newbie magic. It's still too competitive for the two to mix.
A slight follow-up on when I was talking about burn. When its not even a Searing Spear due to absence but instead Shock of all cards, the card that most people usually view as a lower tier burn spell most of the time and is yet considered great against a combo deck because its instant speed then you absolutely know something is wrong about Magic.
The problems with magic go beyond the game itself right now. The reasons we can't have good counters due to the feel bad scenario is that for so many people that feel bad scenario in magic has become their first feel bad scenario. Life is not all happiness and easter cakes. There's blood and maiming, sadness, sexuality, anxiety, depression, and rage that are all unavoidable parts of life and people are unintentionally making all of these things the responsibility of the entertainment industry.
I think things are going to turn around in MtG. Mark Rosewater is saying they are shifting gears for Hour of Devastation and therefore we will see stronger answers in the future. However, bare in mind we as the community did not specify what form those will take. My own feeling is that they let creatures get out of control and we need stronger non-creature spells such as 2 mana instant removal Doom Blade, better counter magic Counterspell, and good quality sweepers Wrath of God / Damnation. We really should be playing thinking the other guy has handful of removal and counter magic, not that the other guy has a handful of creatures that he's probably going to vomit over the playmat in the next 3-4 turns and those creatures may/maynot have spells attached to them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Magic has evolved over the years and the only thing wrong is those players yearning for their favorite time in the game. Magic has to ebb and flow. If it stayed one dimensional, it would get stale for those who didnt like said time frame.
Every couple years a post like this pops up about how the game is dying. Its not dying, its changing. Wotc is a business. Limited and Standard move packs and make Wotc money hand over fist. I am actually surprised they still support anything but those 2 formats. Let the player base and LGS support the older formats for the portion of the player pool that wants to play them.
I think they're so focused on keeping new players happy that they aren't doing much to keep older players happy. The sets are mostly designed for limited, and standard. With the new player focus, the sets tend to lack depth, which is what most more experienced players want. They like to think about the game, and have variation, and play through difficult situations. But the current set design tends create a whole lot of crap and a handful of cards that are very difficult to deal with cards, which often have very few answers.
I think this as well. They are spending so much time catering to new players, that they are losing the ones who are already invested in the game. The players who are "enfranchised," they're the ones who stick around and keep playing, attending events and buying packs. Many new players play for a bit, then stop when their friends stop and that's the end.
Wizards has trouble recently printing "feel-bad" cards (a.k.a. answers) because new players don't like their gideons getting countered or their heart of Kiran shot out of the sky. I know that they said it will move in a different direction now. So I'm positive for the future.
Magic has evolved over the years and the only thing wrong is those players yearning for their favorite time in the game. Magic has to ebb and flow. If it stayed one dimensional, it would get stale for those who didnt like said time frame.
Every couple years a post like this pops up about how the game is dying. Its not dying, its changing. Wotc is a business. Limited and Standard move packs and make Wotc money hand over fist. I am actually surprised they still support anything but those 2 formats. Let the player base and LGS support the older formats for the portion of the player pool that wants to play them.
Aka "the only thing wrong with magic is it doesn't fulfill the desire of its customer base." Well gee, I'm sure sorry my desires and money are wrong. Oh well, WotC has plenty and money already and certainly don't need mine or that of huge numbers of other players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
I think they're so focused on keeping new players happy that they aren't doing much to keep older players happy. The sets are mostly designed for limited, and standard. With the new player focus, the sets tend to lack depth, which is what most more experienced players want. They like to think about the game, and have variation, and play through difficult situations. But the current set design tends create a whole lot of crap and a handful of cards that are very difficult to deal with cards, which often have very few answers.
I think this as well. They are spending so much time catering to new players, that they are losing the ones who are already invested in the game. The players who are "enfranchised," they're the ones who stick around and keep playing, attending events and buying packs. Many new players play for a bit, then stop when their friends stop and that's the end.
Wizards has trouble recently printing "feel-bad" cards (a.k.a. answers) because new players don't like their gideons getting countered or their heart of Kiran shot out of the sky. I know that they said it will move in a different direction now. So I'm positive for the future.
Speaking as somebody who plays with the new players, I don't think they've done a good job catering to new players doing what they've done. They haven't made Modern or Standard more accessible to new players, not on the whole.
I think part of the repetitiveness problem is precisely that they're focusing on Limited so much. Looking through the Amonkhet spoilers, it felt like the same old things, just installed to embalm and exert. And given that this was primarily in the commons and uncommons, I have a feeling it was to make sure Limited wasn't "missing" anything. I will confess I don't like the general conceit of Limited, though (a little TOO chance-based for my tastes, whether or not we're talking draft, not to mention it relegates far too many cards to the use-once-and-then-ignore pile. Uncommons in particular shouldn't be vulnerable to this fate).
That said, it's revealing that one of the things they did to reduce "feel-bad" moments was to have the top-card revelation from Vizier of the Menagerie hidden to other players. Apparently, revealing the top card like Courser of Kruphix did result in "feel-bad" moments when the opposing player had no countermeasure to speak of against the impending card. Combined with everything else (e.g. the above-mentioned countered Gideon), I think the situation is that new players are being seen as not wanting their deck's plan to be derailed in any meaningful sense. And yet, that doesn't teach them the value of caution and reactivity in addition to agency (I'm sure I could have come up with a better word than that, but...). It's teaching them to play stronger, not smarter.
I think Colt47's point about this extending beyond Magic to entertainment in general is also accurate. We have a culture that insists that everyone is entitled to every non-wicked desire they...er...entertain. Constant instant gratification, though, is untenable. In Magic's case, always plantable midrange all the time is just such an untenable situation. I get that players want to feel good even if they lose, but I don't see why that precludes everything but midrange. I'm actually wondering how much of the newer player base sees Magic as an intellectual game on par with chess, like Garfield originally envisioned.
i think one problem is the distribution of power between colors is off, over the years the creators have deemed some aspects to be "anti fun", discard is one such mechanic that i think is has a strong argument for this. as such the power of these effects have been striped from their respective colors creating a vacuum of none interactivity and significantly skewing the viability of color combinations and representation to one side.
these effects were once the core identity of their respective color and without an adequate replacement or rebalance of power between colors you have had two outcomes of power dispartity and the break down of magic as being fun. in the legacy format you have the undisputed dominance of blue with no true equal to it. you cant play rock paper scissors if you are missing one of those elements.
in standard you have an extreme fear of creating overly strong cards that house the original color identities so you have had everything effectively neutered to the point where you play bleh cards with very low levels of synergy, as well as the slowing down of the game as a whole this is whats known as reverse power creep in other games. without the ability to play big bold plays that outright win games magic loses that "wow" factor that other games capitalize on to engross their player base
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGB
"If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it." --Volrath BGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGB
Coming in to agree with most of this thread, after a long time of trying hard not to...
A few things to clear up first: I adore Magic. In every way, every format, almost every set (looking at BFZ for an exception here...). I'm also a keen Midrange player, and have been since I started playing again (oddly enough, the week before BFZ dropped).
However, I don't like playing against 4 other midrange decks every FNM. I don't like crushing the control players because my Sylvan Advocates go under his counters or because my Selfless Spirit means she can't remove my Gearhulks. I don't like not having to make blocking decisions because Aggro's 1-drops can't get through my wall of 2/3s anyway. I don't like it when I decide to play control myself, and find that I can't beat Saheeli because every time I counter the combo I miss another turn of dealing with 13 Thopters that my lone Eldrazi can't hope to block (though that's more of a metagame issue there).
What I really want is to see these promised "answers" come through - because right now it's pretty much just Fatal Push that does what needs doing. Every Sylvan Advocate needs to be balanced by a Searing Spear, or even a Lightning Helix!
What I want is to sit down with my pile of bug dumb X/4s and actually have to think before I swing all out, because my opponent might have a Doom Blade or might be able to burn me out after the swing back. So while I still want to see big dumb X/4s, plz wizards, give my friends some toys too
I also think eliminating the core set was a HUGE mistake. Many of the color "staples" were found in those sets.....Incinerate/Lightning Bolt, Mana Leak, Wrath of God, Llanowar Elves, etc. These were the "GLUE" cards that opened up the format and gave players more options.
I agree with "The Deceptiocon" here; i think that the end of the core sets hindered wizards ability to throw in emergency cards at the last minute cause of design etc to repair standard as they needed it.
One thing WotC may be forgetting is that new players eventually become experienced players. If they grow bored of midrange saturation in the process, what's keeping them in? (The current philosophy among shareholders in general--namely, judge entirely on immediate quarterly results, not at all for long-range--probably isn't helping WotC internalize this.)
A simple question, what's wrong with today's Magic? I've heard many people express that something is wrong or missing from Magic products made today. What is it? Is it something real, that we can identify? Or is this just rose-colored nostalgia glasses from enfranchised players wishing for "the good ole' days"? I personally have it recently myself. I feel like some of the charm of the past is missing and that design has become too formulaic. Not that designs are bad, but that there is so much predictability. There is another dragon in the new set with the set's keyword on it. There is going to be a 2 mana bear with the small upside of the set's keyword ability. There will be a +2/+0 anthem ability in red with some type of mana reduction or buff depending on the set's theme. Is there just too much chaff every set? Hundreds of cards that have no real use outside of theme decks or limited? Have we just forgotten the chaff of the past? Like people claiming that music from bygone eras is better simply because they only remember the top ten songs of the decade and forget the literal hundreds of terrible and mediocre songs. What was Magic's best era and what made it special? I'd love to hear constructive thoughts on the matter and if this post is inappropriate or in the wrong spot I apologize and you can move or remove it as necessary.
First of all you're probably a long term player so some of the smoke and mirrors from the design is much more obvious for you.
That said, the design is much less carefree than it used to be. In every aspect: from the art selection, style guide, color pie restrictions, the way cycles of cards are designed, flavor text etc. The ideas the current designers bring are a lot more trite and artificial - the stories, worlds characters - they all seem to be done in the same manner as Hollywood movies, with a room full of marketing experts and accountants.
This is all defended by the need to make money but I feel its difficult to argue that this uniformity is truly something that ensures the money keeps rolling. Hollywood makes millions of of its formulas but millions are lost in the same manner as well. I believe the teams that make the game have become very set in their ways and are riding the gravy train with the philosophy "as long as the money keeps flowing we won't experiment much, if at all".
I have often asked myself this question as well, but when I look at some of the cards I started with from the 7th edition or Portal they still give me a specific geeky vibe that stokes my imagination. Sometimes its the artwork, sometimes its the old borders in conjunction with it, sometimes its the flavor text and sometimes the sheer stupid variety of effects cards have even when they're bad or broken. Things like Dream Halls, the old Arcanis the OmnipotentLaquatus's ChampionDauthi Slayer, painted lands from Urza, Odyssey etc. still look good and show designers at the top of their creativity - while almost everything of the new stuff is instantly forgettable, even when its broken. Even the land art mostly sucks, which was personally one of the most disappointing aspect of the new changes! I remember looking at the Khan's lands and thinking they were all done as concept artwork for some computer game, not as pieces of art to stand on their own. It makes me sad.
Case in point, the new GR legend from Amonkhet with 17 abilities. What's his name? What's depicted on the card? Who is he? Why is he packing a set's worth of evergreen keywords?
According to Maro they have some sort of role in the story, so she should pop up at some point. I'm not really sure that's a great example, every block has Legendaries that exist for no particular purpose except mechanical reasons, that's nothing new. I'm sure I could go back to even the first block with Legendaries and find ones that are super obscure outside of EDH fans.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is a symptom, not the problem.
The problem is Standard only caters to a few shallow styles.
Where is Prison?
Where is Control?
Where is Land Destruction?
Modern allows you to play in many ways, Standard, simply doesn't.
Spirits
I also think eliminating the core set was a HUGE mistake. Many of the color "staples" were found in those sets.....Incinerate/Lightning Bolt, Mana Leak, Wrath of God, Llanowar Elves, etc. These were the "GLUE" cards that opened up the format and gave players more options.
Blue got counterspells, draw cards and weak creatures that were hard to block. It could not deal with aggro well but murdered midrange and combo decks. Counterspells and draw cards have been dramatically weakened while its creatures have gotten much better.
White had good one drops and anthems to win quickly, but was also the answer color. Exile effects, destroy none land permanents, and wipe the board were all glued to white but it couldn't interact with the hand or manipulate its draws. Wipes, anthems, and removal have all gotten worse while its 2+ critters have gotten better.
Black has pretty much always done everything everyone else does, but hurts itself. Black has been the strongest color since delver left standard and that isn't going to change.
Red was good card draw in the form of wheel effects, cheap land destruction, fast 1 drops, and good burn. The first two have been removed from the game, and the latter two have been nerfed by the increased potency of midrange creatures and the weakening of spot removal. Like white and blue it has gotten better creatures as a result.
Green was mana ramp, fatties and pump spells. It took over land destruction from red and black, but only attached to expensive creatures and spells. Green is better then it used to be but is still overshadowed by colorless and black.
Colorless: Used to be the realm of really crappy artifacts, now with vehicles and eldrazi is the best color in several formats. It is basically the color of giant creatures that for one reason or another ignore what removal there is (TKS is a Vendillion Clique with a great body, Reality Smasher has its counter the first spell effect, vehicles are only creatures on your turn).
Pushing back on color balance will do a lot to restore the diversity of the game and end the "fatties slapping at each other" nightmare.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
In the name of keeping things from being "unfun" they're making the game dull and mundane and unfun.
The format NEEDS all of those strategies to thrive. Look at the diversity from Mtg's past vs. today and that gives a little glimpse as to what the problem is.
In fact the creatures are now amazingly strong in all colors. When you compare the hulks and titans to Gorilla Titan or shivan dragon, or that cards like wild mongrel, werebear and nimble mongoose ised to be legacy playable...
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Totally this
Magic has lost its magic, at least in standard. Standard used to be the frontier from which other formats look to for new tech. These days we look for "mistakes". TBH it is not too different. In the past there were only a few gems and the rest was chaff. So that part has'nt changed.
what changed was power creep and simplification of the game. Power creep kills the game true. But power creep also fuels the game and makes it interesting and makes it Magic If power creep was so bad old formats should just die out and be worthless. But that is not what happen. Instead they have now become reference points that standard is not supposed to reach This why standard is being overshadowed.
What might allow standard to be the current weak-card simmer pool and yet pull in crowds would be different ways of playing magic. For instance all the various casual formats, cube drafts. Or sets being more strongly in flavor or mechanics such that a block cube brings something everyone likes to the table. Essentially new games using magic rules (which is possible because of the depth and breath of Magic's structure as a game - which is actually awesome). I believe they are already going in direction while throwing bones to the older 60 card constructed formats. It is not terribad, its just not old magic. Which is what I as an old fart is missing from the current standard
For the older style for making magic where they were more "careless", there is potential even from weak\currently-useless cards that may have potential. Now a useless card tends to stay useless.
I suspect it is to save design space so they can squeeze out more value out from one set, given that they want to churn out more sets they have to spread the design equity out thinner, hence we see more weak cards. Weak cards allow more gradiated and variated power creeping, useful when they want to make a "chase" card.
Standard magic is a different game today from what it was 20 years ago. Its not necessarily bad. But it is thinner.
Reality is but a perception of your being --
Visit my blog!!! - http://huffalump-magic.blogspot.com/
"The brain is wider than the sky,
For, put them side by side,
The one the other will include
With ease, and you beside."
—Emily Dickinson
For sales or trade, visit my blog or visit my ebay blog for my listings :http://myworld.ebay.com/arcane7828
881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
For land destruction, the whole "tap target land, it doesn't untap during its controller's untap step" is very blue. Also that has been cannibalized by red to make up for the fact that land destruction has been practically stripped from it aside from something like Demolish.
For artifact removal, I've noticed a disturbing lack of instant-speed artifact removal. When I saw By Force, I was simultaneously joyful but also frustrated at the same time. Joyful as its more mana efficient artifact removal than Release the Gremlins. Frustrated because for months the artifact removal in red was weak.
Burn. Where to start? How about that we didn't get cost efficient red sweeper until Amonkhet with Sweltering Suns but instead we had stuff like Savage Alliance, Kozilek's Return gets a pass as at least it has the decency to be instant speed. How about that there is no two mana instant that deals three damage. That all we have is Incendiary Flow. If that spell was instant speed, there would be a few less problems in standard.
I will also take a potshot at the the Invocations. They are great as they get to be reprinted with new and good looking artwork. Yet look at the amount of answers stockpiled in them and how not a single one can be used in standard except the gods and Aven Mindcensor. Its like teasing a starving person with food. Seriously. I don't honestly care even if they are too strong for standard, they would solve so many problems.
So far the only plus side, aside from a few spells like Glorious End, is that red's creatures have gotten even better.
I'm going to agree and disagree with you a bit. Mostly agree, because I too have been playing a long time, since Fallen Empires in fact. I was 14 at the time, and now I'm almost 37.
One HUGE thing about playing back then was playing around counters. It taught you a ton about the game. Losing is a fantastic teaching tool. Should be anyway. Does having your board Wrathed suck? Sure, a couple times, then you learn to prepare for it and play around it, and wow holy *****, now you're better at Magic. To this day, I play like the opponent has a hand full of counters and removal. I bluff like I have a hand full of counters and removal.
The main part where I disagree with you, is losing being unfun. I went to a Legacy tournament, and totally scrubbed out. It was pathetic how bad I did. But I had a blast. Learning new decks was fun. Meeting new people was fun. I played against a dude who had some crazy Delver build, and it was the most fun match of the tournament even though I lost. Back in ancient times, I had a deck built around Desolation, and my friend had Turbo Stasis. It was a crazy battle of wits. He ended up winning, but that game has stuck in my mind since 1997.
Even as someone who has traditionally built Sligh/Ponza style decks throughout the years, I think it's easy to see that these non-stop bat***** insane creatures are damaging to the game. Pokemon is a great card game, but if I want to play Pokemon, I'd play Pokemon.
Consider also, Wizards choosing a younger, participation prize raised player base over an established, long term one who are older and likely have better paying jobs and more expendable income. I played Prosperous Bloom against a younger dude some time back, and all he did was piss and moan "Is it my turn yet?" like a broken record. I beat a guy at the Aether Revolt prerelease who got salty as **** that he lost. Get over it dude. I've lost hundreds of games of Magic in my life.
It feels like we're at a point where WotC just checks off cells on a spreadsheet to make sets now. There's no heart and soul anymore. It's cold, sterile, and corporate.
If you attempt to make a product for everyone, you end up making a product for no one.
1. Threats are strong and answers are weak, putting control at a disadvantage
2. Control being at a disadvantage means they see less play, and the blitz aggro decks that are strong against control are therefore weaker against the meta
3. Midrange decks tend to be weak vs combo, so the banlist tends to target combo decks harder to keep them in check, instead of strong control decks in the meta keeping them in check
4. As a result, the meta is flooded with midrange decks and competitive play is too often a midrange vs midrange mirror match
According to what the devs have said, this was done to appeal to newer players and/or because it is what their research told them players wanted. As for new players, speaking as a 20 year on and off veteran who has never played competitively and solely plays kitchen table magic with newbs this was doomed to failure. I can see where WotC might see the disconnect between newbie/casual play and competitive play might be a problem, but the disconnect is much deeper than pushing Midrange is going to solve. The biggest disconnect is between tuned and untuned decks, pushing midrange does absolutely nothing to solve that. Another disconnect is money, with newbie/casual players up against $200-300 competitive decks. Pushing midrange arguably makes this worse, as in my experience they tend to be the most expensive decks to build. All WotC has done is to force the competitive players to play newbie magic. It's still too competitive for the two to mix.
I think things are going to turn around in MtG. Mark Rosewater is saying they are shifting gears for Hour of Devastation and therefore we will see stronger answers in the future. However, bare in mind we as the community did not specify what form those will take. My own feeling is that they let creatures get out of control and we need stronger non-creature spells such as 2 mana instant removal Doom Blade, better counter magic Counterspell, and good quality sweepers Wrath of God / Damnation. We really should be playing thinking the other guy has handful of removal and counter magic, not that the other guy has a handful of creatures that he's probably going to vomit over the playmat in the next 3-4 turns and those creatures may/maynot have spells attached to them.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Every couple years a post like this pops up about how the game is dying. Its not dying, its changing. Wotc is a business. Limited and Standard move packs and make Wotc money hand over fist. I am actually surprised they still support anything but those 2 formats. Let the player base and LGS support the older formats for the portion of the player pool that wants to play them.
I think this as well. They are spending so much time catering to new players, that they are losing the ones who are already invested in the game. The players who are "enfranchised," they're the ones who stick around and keep playing, attending events and buying packs. Many new players play for a bit, then stop when their friends stop and that's the end.
Wizards has trouble recently printing "feel-bad" cards (a.k.a. answers) because new players don't like their gideons getting countered or their heart of Kiran shot out of the sky. I know that they said it will move in a different direction now. So I'm positive for the future.
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
Aka "the only thing wrong with magic is it doesn't fulfill the desire of its customer base." Well gee, I'm sure sorry my desires and money are wrong. Oh well, WotC has plenty and money already and certainly don't need mine or that of huge numbers of other players.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Speaking as somebody who plays with the new players, I don't think they've done a good job catering to new players doing what they've done. They haven't made Modern or Standard more accessible to new players, not on the whole.
That said, it's revealing that one of the things they did to reduce "feel-bad" moments was to have the top-card revelation from Vizier of the Menagerie hidden to other players. Apparently, revealing the top card like Courser of Kruphix did result in "feel-bad" moments when the opposing player had no countermeasure to speak of against the impending card. Combined with everything else (e.g. the above-mentioned countered Gideon), I think the situation is that new players are being seen as not wanting their deck's plan to be derailed in any meaningful sense. And yet, that doesn't teach them the value of caution and reactivity in addition to agency (I'm sure I could have come up with a better word than that, but...). It's teaching them to play stronger, not smarter.
I think Colt47's point about this extending beyond Magic to entertainment in general is also accurate. We have a culture that insists that everyone is entitled to every non-wicked desire they...er...entertain. Constant instant gratification, though, is untenable. In Magic's case, always plantable midrange all the time is just such an untenable situation. I get that players want to feel good even if they lose, but I don't see why that precludes everything but midrange. I'm actually wondering how much of the newer player base sees Magic as an intellectual game on par with chess, like Garfield originally envisioned.
these effects were once the core identity of their respective color and without an adequate replacement or rebalance of power between colors you have had two outcomes of power dispartity and the break down of magic as being fun. in the legacy format you have the undisputed dominance of blue with no true equal to it. you cant play rock paper scissors if you are missing one of those elements.
in standard you have an extreme fear of creating overly strong cards that house the original color identities so you have had everything effectively neutered to the point where you play bleh cards with very low levels of synergy, as well as the slowing down of the game as a whole this is whats known as reverse power creep in other games. without the ability to play big bold plays that outright win games magic loses that "wow" factor that other games capitalize on to engross their player base
"If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it."
--Volrath
BGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGBGB
A few things to clear up first: I adore Magic. In every way, every format, almost every set (looking at BFZ for an exception here...). I'm also a keen Midrange player, and have been since I started playing again (oddly enough, the week before BFZ dropped).
However, I don't like playing against 4 other midrange decks every FNM. I don't like crushing the control players because my Sylvan Advocates go under his counters or because my Selfless Spirit means she can't remove my Gearhulks. I don't like not having to make blocking decisions because Aggro's 1-drops can't get through my wall of 2/3s anyway. I don't like it when I decide to play control myself, and find that I can't beat Saheeli because every time I counter the combo I miss another turn of dealing with 13 Thopters that my lone Eldrazi can't hope to block (though that's more of a metagame issue there).
What I really want is to see these promised "answers" come through - because right now it's pretty much just Fatal Push that does what needs doing. Every Sylvan Advocate needs to be balanced by a Searing Spear, or even a Lightning Helix!
What I want is to sit down with my pile of bug dumb X/4s and actually have to think before I swing all out, because my opponent might have a Doom Blade or might be able to burn me out after the swing back. So while I still want to see big dumb X/4s, plz wizards, give my friends some toys too
I agree with "The Deceptiocon" here; i think that the end of the core sets hindered wizards ability to throw in emergency cards at the last minute cause of design etc to repair standard as they needed it.
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
According to Maro they have some sort of role in the story, so she should pop up at some point. I'm not really sure that's a great example, every block has Legendaries that exist for no particular purpose except mechanical reasons, that's nothing new. I'm sure I could go back to even the first block with Legendaries and find ones that are super obscure outside of EDH fans.