So, I figure Doomsday is a fun card, right? Well, what could be more fun than casting Brilliant Ultimatum after Doomsday on those remaining 5 cards on the same turn?
Now, suppose you do that.
What's your win condition?
Come up with a group of 5 cards that, if you had infinite mana, you could win with no matter how they were divided.
Alternatively, you can utilize Brilliant Ultimatum as the 1st card in the Doomsday draw and then make a group of 4 cards.
This seems only feasible in Commander, so let's limit the color identity of the cards to Esper. And just to make things interesting, let's also say no X cost cards, like Blue Sun or Exsanguinate - because those are lame, predictable, and obvious.
Also, these win conditions are under the assumption that nobody is going to disrupt your combo - there will be no removal or counterspells to riposte your attempts at winning.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sure, Lab Man seems like an easy choice, here. Also, as an addendum, I think it's good if we also explain how to play the piles. The above's pretty obvious, though.
Let's just assume Lab Man + draw cards are off the table, though, since we've now established that as a win.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. Lab Man + 4: Take the 4, Pull Lab Man, then Confluence it and play it and Ponder for the win.
2. Lab Man, Ponder + 3: Play Lab Man, play Ponder, win.
3. Lab Man, Pull from Eternity + 3: Pull Think Twice, play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
4. Lab Man, Confluence + 3: Play Lab Man, draw with Confluence, win.
5. Lab Man, Think Twice + 3: Play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
I was working on a shell of Grey Merchant of Asphodel + other drain creatures + Cloudstone Curio, but I can't find a way pull the artefact from exile if they make it Curio and nothing else. Any ideas? Or is it a dead end.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Triskellion, Pull from Eternity, Animate Dead, and Zombify is so close but doesn't quite work. Mike and Pull vs Trike and the reanimates fails... And I don't think there is a way around it going down that path unless there is another card that pulls from exile. I got excited and thought the Eldrazi Processors did it, but they are opponents cards so I'm back to square to one.
Hmmmm so Mike, Trike, Mirror, think twice, and Pull comes so close to winning. The split Mirror plus 1 creature makes you wait a turn to kill, but all the other permutations get there same turn. Well I'm stumped. I think mike and trike is a dead end
Note that these cards can also get things that weren't part of the Doomsday pile, so Mirror of Fate can be particularly strong in this thought exercise (the others only get 1 exiled card, so if you're gunning for something that wasn't in the Doomsday pile, why not run that instead of the exile-fetcher?)
Note that these cards can also get things that weren't part of the Doomsday pile, so Mirror of Fate can be particularly strong in this thought exercise (the others only get 1 exiled card, so if you're gunning for something that wasn't in the Doomsday pile, why not run that instead of the exile-fetcher?)
Unfortunately, Riftsweeper also isn't an option due to the color identity restriction.
I was trying to come up with a pile using Mirror of Fate but I couldn't figure out why you would bother using Brilliant Ultimatum to cast it instead of just hardcasting Mirror for 5 and using the extra mana to cast Ideas Unbound or another draw spell.
Maybe the Mike/Trike pile with Dread Return and Runic Repetition works?
Oh, one pile doesn't work because Runic Repetition can't get Pull from Eternity from exile:
Mike or Trike, Pull // Mike or Trike, Return, Runic
All the other piles are fine though, I think? Maybe someone else has an idea on how to optimize this to get a two-creature combo; that would open up a lot of different avenues.
Note that these cards can also get things that weren't part of the Doomsday pile, so Mirror of Fate can be particularly strong in this thought exercise (the others only get 1 exiled card, so if you're gunning for something that wasn't in the Doomsday pile, why not run that instead of the exile-fetcher?)
Unfortunately, Riftsweeper also isn't an option due to the color identity restriction.
This seems only feasible in Commander, so let's limit the color identity of the cards to Esper. And just to make things interesting, let's also say no X cost cards, like Blue Sun or Exsanguinate - because those are lame, predictable, and obvious.
It's not that obvious because X is 0 when cast off Brilliant Ultimatum. The only obvious X spell is Increasing Confusion: just pick the pile with IC, cast it for free, then flash it back for X>0.
This seems only feasible in Commander, so let's limit the color identity of the cards to Esper. And just to make things interesting, let's also say no X cost cards, like Blue Sun or Exsanguinate - because those are lame, predictable, and obvious.
It's not that obvious because X is 0 when cast off Brilliant Ultimatum. The only obvious X spell is Increasing Confusion: just pick the pile with IC, cast it for free, then flash it back for X>0.
Yeah, that's true. Actually, I'm having a lot of trouble with piles here. Wincon + Pull from Eternity automatically fails because you can't choose the other pile - unless the second piece can be cast from graveyard.
The Lab Man pile only wins because TT can be flashbacked. Unless there's a card in Esper colors that can be flashbacked to put Exsanguinate in hand I don't think this is doable. Mystic Retrieval and Past in Flames are both red.
1) Walking Ballista // others: choose others, cast Pull to put Ballista in GY then Morgue Theft to return it to hand. Cast an arbitrarily large Ballista.
2) Walking Ballista + Pull from Eternity // others: choose Ballista + Pull, Cast Ballista (X=0), cast Pull to put Morgue Theft in Graveyard, Flashback Morgue Theft to put Ballista in hand, etc.
3) Ballista + Morgue Theft // others: choose others, cast Pull from Eternity to put Ballista in GY, cast Runic Repetition to put Morgue Theft in hand, etc.
4) Ballista + Runic Repetition // others: choose others, Pull for Ballista, cast Morgue Theft, etc.
5) Pull from Eternity // others: choose others, cast Ballista (X=0), cast Morgue Theft on Ballista, etc.
6) Morgue Theft // others: choose others, runic or pull for Morgue Theft, cast Ballista (X=0), cast Morgue Theft, etc.
7) Runic Repetition // others: same as (5).
Or can you not stack the spells that way? You have to put them all on the stack at the same time, right? When Brilliant Ultimatum resolves. Might make piles (4), (5), and (7) not work.
I think you are right that because of timing that pile doesn't work silver. But I'm not a judge.
Once x spells turned out to be slightly tricky due to casting them for 0 I tried to make a Yawgmoth's Will pile that would work but I couldn't make that work either. I can't figure anything to add to the 3 card base of Will, Pull from Eternity, and Blue Sun's Zenith that gets it done. Graveyard recursion spell on it's own continues to be the thorn in my side and I can't figure out any two cards that get's around it... Tried some funky mirror piles as well, but Mirror + Will vs the usual suspects is the same dead end I keep running into.
1. Lab Man + 4: Take the 4, Pull Lab Man, then Unearth it and Ponder for the win.
2. Lab Man, Ponder + 3: Play Lab Man, play Ponder, win.
3. Lab Man, Pull from Eternity + 3: Pull Think Twice, play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
4. Lab Man, Unearth + 3: Play Lab Man, cycle Unearth, win.
5. Lab Man, Think Twice + 3: Play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
Any other combinations are self-evident, I think.
One thing...you can't cycle Unearth because Brilliant Ultimatum casts the card; it doesn't put it in your hand. And you can't get past that with something like Alchemist's Apprentice in the graveyard before hand, because Doomsday will exile it.
"The highest moments in the life of a mathematician are the first few moments after one has proved the result, but before one finds the mistake."
1. Lab Man + 4: Take the 4, Pull Lab Man, then Unearth it and Ponder for the win.
2. Lab Man, Ponder + 3: Play Lab Man, play Ponder, win.
3. Lab Man, Pull from Eternity + 3: Pull Think Twice, play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
4. Lab Man, Unearth + 3: Play Lab Man, cycle Unearth, win.
5. Lab Man, Think Twice + 3: Play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
Any other combinations are self-evident, I think.
One thing...you can't cycle Unearth because Brilliant Ultimatum casts the card; it doesn't put it in your hand. And you can't get past that with something like Alchemist's Apprentice in the graveyard before hand, because Doomsday will exile it.
"The highest moments in the life of a mathematician are the first few moments after one has proved the result, but before one finds the mistake."
The Labman // others pile still doesn't work because of the spells being on the stack together though. You can't cast Morgue Theft targeting Labman because Pull hasn't resolved yet when you put Morgue Theft on the stack. The first Ballista pile has the same problem, I guess, in addition to (4), (5), and (7).
You could just choose Labman, cast it, then pass, but. I'm pretty much out of ideas at this point. I think you need a deck to make it work at all - then you can use Past in Flames to give the wincon flashback, and since PiF doesn't target it gets around the "targeting before Pull has resolved" problem so as long as you stack the spells correctly.
Edit: Ninja'd, but I think the new Labman // others pile still doesn't work because you can't target Labman in your graveyard until after Pull resolves.
Edit: Ninja'd, but I think the new Labman // others pile still doesn't work because you can't target Labman in your graveyard until after Pull resolves.
Umm... So? You Pull Lab Man, then once Pull resolves, you Confluence him. That's not an issue...
Edit: Ninja'd, but I think the new Labman // others pile still doesn't work because you can't target Labman in your graveyard until after Pull resolves.
Umm... So? You Pull Lab Man, then once Pull resolves, you Confluence him. That's not an issue...
When Brilliant Ultimatum resolves you have to put all of the spells you're casting with it on the stack at the same time. When you cast Confluence, Labman is still in exile so it isn't a legal target. I think, anyway.
Edit: Ninja'd, but I think the new Labman // others pile still doesn't work because you can't target Labman in your graveyard until after Pull resolves.
Umm... So? You Pull Lab Man, then once Pull resolves, you Confluence him. That's not an issue...
When Brilliant Ultimatum resolves you have to put all of the spells you're casting with it on the stack at the same time. When you cast Confluence, Labman is still in exile so it isn't a legal target. I think, anyway.
So... You get out Leyline of Anticipation ahead of time? That's about all I can think of for making this work (You then pull lab man, runic the morgue theftDread Return, return lab man, and draw with Think Twice.
Now, suppose you do that.
What's your win condition?
Come up with a group of 5 cards that, if you had infinite mana, you could win with no matter how they were divided.
Alternatively, you can utilize Brilliant Ultimatum as the 1st card in the Doomsday draw and then make a group of 4 cards.
This seems only feasible in Commander, so let's limit the color identity of the cards to Esper. And just to make things interesting, let's also say no X cost cards, like Blue Sun or Exsanguinate - because those are lame, predictable, and obvious.
Also, these win conditions are under the assumption that nobody is going to disrupt your combo - there will be no removal or counterspells to riposte your attempts at winning.
Ready, go!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Let's just assume Lab Man + draw cards are off the table, though, since we've now established that as a win.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You pick whatever pile has Brush with Death and then just cast it repeatedly with buyback.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
True. Not that you have to win in the same turn according to OP, but: I guess you do Laboratory Maniac + Ponder + Pull from Eternity + Think Twice + Wretched Confluence... And then you got it.
1. Lab Man + 4: Take the 4, Pull Lab Man, then Confluence it and play it and Ponder for the win.
2. Lab Man, Ponder + 3: Play Lab Man, play Ponder, win.
3. Lab Man, Pull from Eternity + 3: Pull Think Twice, play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
4. Lab Man, Confluence + 3: Play Lab Man, draw with Confluence, win.
5. Lab Man, Think Twice + 3: Play Lab Man, play Think Twice, win.
Any other combinations are self-evident, I think.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Triskellion, Pull from Eternity, Animate Dead, and Zombify is so close but doesn't quite work. Mike and Pull vs Trike and the reanimates fails... And I don't think there is a way around it going down that path unless there is another card that pulls from exile. I got excited and thought the Eldrazi Processors did it, but they are opponents cards so I'm back to square to one.
Hmmmm so Mike, Trike, Mirror, think twice, and Pull comes so close to winning. The split Mirror plus 1 creature makes you wait a turn to kill, but all the other permutations get there same turn. Well I'm stumped. I think mike and trike is a dead end
- Pull from Eternity (exile -> graveyard)
- Riftsweeper (exile -> library)
- Runic Repetition (exile -> hand, cards with flashback only)
- Mirror of Fate (exile -> library, up to 7 exiled cards)
Note that these cards can also get things that weren't part of the Doomsday pile, so Mirror of Fate can be particularly strong in this thought exercise (the others only get 1 exiled card, so if you're gunning for something that wasn't in the Doomsday pile, why not run that instead of the exile-fetcher?)Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Unfortunately, Riftsweeper also isn't an option due to the color identity restriction.
Maybe the Mike/Trike pile with Dread Return and Runic Repetition works?
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Triskelion, Dread Return, Runic Repetition, Pull from Eternity
Oh, one pile doesn't work because Runic Repetition can't get Pull from Eternity from exile:
Mike or Trike, Pull // Mike or Trike, Return, Runic
All the other piles are fine though, I think? Maybe someone else has an idea on how to optimize this to get a two-creature combo; that would open up a lot of different avenues.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
We cast Doomsday. First card we draw is Jace's Ingenuity, allowing us to draw Brilliant Ultimatum, Mikeaus, the Unhallowed, and a filler card. We then cast Brilliant Ultimatum hitting Triskelion.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
The Lab Man pile only wins because TT can be flashbacked. Unless there's a card in Esper colors that can be flashbacked to put Exsanguinate in hand I don't think this is doable. Mystic Retrieval and Past in Flames are both red.
Morgue Theft can do it to creatures...
What about Walking Ballista?
Doomsday Pile:
Brilliant Ultimatum + Walking Ballista + Pull from Eternity + Morgue Theft + Runic Repetition
Cantrip to get Brilliant Ultimatum, then cast it.
1) Walking Ballista // others: choose others, cast Pull to put Ballista in GY then Morgue Theft to return it to hand. Cast an arbitrarily large Ballista.
2) Walking Ballista + Pull from Eternity // others: choose Ballista + Pull, Cast Ballista (X=0), cast Pull to put Morgue Theft in Graveyard, Flashback Morgue Theft to put Ballista in hand, etc.
3) Ballista + Morgue Theft // others: choose others, cast Pull from Eternity to put Ballista in GY, cast Runic Repetition to put Morgue Theft in hand, etc.
4) Ballista + Runic Repetition // others: choose others, Pull for Ballista, cast Morgue Theft, etc.
5) Pull from Eternity // others: choose others, cast Ballista (X=0), cast Morgue Theft on Ballista, etc.
6) Morgue Theft // others: choose others, runic or pull for Morgue Theft, cast Ballista (X=0), cast Morgue Theft, etc.
7) Runic Repetition // others: same as (5).
Or can you not stack the spells that way? You have to put them all on the stack at the same time, right? When Brilliant Ultimatum resolves. Might make piles (4), (5), and (7) not work.
Once x spells turned out to be slightly tricky due to casting them for 0 I tried to make a Yawgmoth's Will pile that would work but I couldn't make that work either. I can't figure anything to add to the 3 card base of Will, Pull from Eternity, and Blue Sun's Zenith that gets it done. Graveyard recursion spell on it's own continues to be the thorn in my side and I can't figure out any two cards that get's around it... Tried some funky mirror piles as well, but Mirror + Will vs the usual suspects is the same dead end I keep running into.
"The highest moments in the life of a mathematician are the first few moments after one has proved the result, but before one finds the mistake."
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Shoot. You're right. Got it. Replace Unearth with Wretched Confluence.
Hrm. What about replacing Unearth and Ponder with Morgue Theft and Runic Repetition?
Laboratory Maniac + Think Twice + Pull from Eternity + Morgue Theft + Runic Repetition
The Labman // others pile still doesn't work because of the spells being on the stack together though. You can't cast Morgue Theft targeting Labman because Pull hasn't resolved yet when you put Morgue Theft on the stack. The first Ballista pile has the same problem, I guess, in addition to (4), (5), and (7).
You could just choose Labman, cast it, then pass, but. I'm pretty much out of ideas at this point. I think you need a deck to make it work at all - then you can use Past in Flames to give the wincon flashback, and since PiF doesn't target it gets around the "targeting before Pull has resolved" problem so as long as you stack the spells correctly.
Edit: Ninja'd, but I think the new Labman // others pile still doesn't work because you can't target Labman in your graveyard until after Pull resolves.
Umm... So? You Pull Lab Man, then once Pull resolves, you Confluence him. That's not an issue...
You are correct... Damn. Huh.
morgue theftDread Return, return lab man, and draw with Think Twice.