As part of his mailbag column, MARO said that the reason they didn't print a mox in Kaladesh was that they couldn't find a balanced mox that was both something people would play and something that wouldn't be a problem developmentally.
The following seem like the obvious choice for a Kaladeshi mox
Mox Aether (0)
artifact
T: Gain E
Or alternatively have it add a E when it enters, then have T, pay E: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
What are the problems with these that would have prevented them from seeing print. For the latter, is a Lotus Petal that can sometimes be reused (or often reused if you commit to a linear archetype) really too much for Standard? Would a zero cost energy producer have been too much for the format, or would it have been to weak to be called a mox?
Clearly, this was the case, but I'm having trouble seeing why. I haven't played Standard in a couple years, so that might be part of the problem, but I did play when Mox Opal was legal, and I didn't think that was OP for Standard. What are your guys thoughts?
Edit: I originally put lotus petal in mana brackets instead of card brackets. (LotUSPEtal is the result.
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In Standard it seems like it would be somewhat OP. There is already an Energy deck in Standard that I have seen achieve turn 4 wins. Adding a Mox to the mix that either grants more energy or uses energy to generate mana means it would only see play in that one deck and would also ramp that deck in a way no other deck can. And, since Energy doesn't go away at the end of the turn, players can just keep using it every turn to store up more and more as they see fit.
The issue with Standard might not be as much of an issue as I think it would, but this is what I believe R&D were thinking of when trying to develop one.
Also, there is a "tradition" of making Moxen playable in many formats. Mox Opal and Chrome Mox are played in the formats they are legal in but to develop a Mox that would see play in only Standard and basically nowhere else seems odd.
This isn't to say they couldn't develop something different than what you are proposing, but your suggestions have a few issues (and I am guessing that R&D tried both as they are both fairly obvious designs).
In regards to the second version, but you are basically designing a Lotus Petal you don't have to sacrifice. Every deck would run the full set.
EDIT: I see you did recognize that your version is a Lotus Petal and yes, I think it would be too much for Standard.
In any format but Standard, it is awful (both versions). Having to spend energy to produce mana means that the deck needs to be built around Energy to make it useful (just like Mox Opal needs to be built around artifacts). Mox Opal has the entirety of Magic to pull its artifacts from though so it is easier to use than having to use the sub par Standard cards in Modern or Legacy just to use the Mox.
On the flip side: in Standard it seems like it would be somewhat OP. There is already an Energy deck in Standard that I have seen achieve turn 4 wins. Adding a Mox to the mix that either grants more energy or uses energy to generate mana means it would only see play in that one deck and would also ramp that deck in a way no other deck can. And, since Energy doesn't go away at the end of the turn, players can just keep using it every turn to store up more and more as they see fit.
The issue with Standard might not be as much of an issue as I think it would, but this is what I believe R&D were thinking of when trying to develop one.
Also, there is a "tradition" of making Moxen playable in many formats. Mox Opal and Chrome Mox are played in the formats they are legal in but to develop a Mox that would see play in only Standard and basically nowhere else seems odd.
This isn't to say they couldn't develop something different than what you are proposing, but your suggestions have a few issues (and I am guessing that R&D tried both as they are both fairly obvious designs).
I think that explains the energy producing one away immediately. I believe the one that uses energy could see legacy and vintage play, as Lotus Petal does and it is (almost) strictly better (being able to recur the petal makes the petal better in vintage due to Yawg's will, but the petal is restricted there). If that energy deck would be powered to turn three wins by it though, that does seem to be enough to put it over the top in Standard, even if it is substantially weaker than Opal, just because Opal didn't have a deck to power to a turn 3 win. While I don't think it would be OP for Standard, I could see it being enough of a worry for Development to kill it. That seems reasonable.
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Or alternatively have it add a E when it enters, then have T, pay E: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
What are the problems with these that would have prevented them from seeing print. For the latter, is a Lotus Petal that can sometimes be reused (or often reused if you commit to a linear archetype) really too much for Standard?
"Lotus Petal" as base power?
That's extremely overpowered. At least make it legendary. I think that would still be too powerful.
Aether Lotus (0)
Artifact T: Add C to your mana pool.
Sacrifice Aether Lotus: Gain EEE.
This card was actually almost printed in Mirage but ultimately scapped. It was called Mox Crystal - tapped for colorless (and obviously didn't have an energy clause on it). Even Mox Crystal would be way too powerful to print today.
Mox Crystal is truly the most conspicuous missing Mox. Conspiracy 3 maybe?
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As part of his mailbag column, MARO said that the reason they didn't print a mox in Kaladesh was that they couldn't find a balanced mox that was both something people would play and something that wouldn't be a problem developmentally.
The following seem like the obvious choice for a Kaladeshi mox
Mox Aether (0)
artifact
T: Gain E
That's not a Mox. Moxes add mana. So that's why that card wasn't printed.
Or alternatively have it add a E when it enters, then have T, pay E: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
There are more than enough good cards along the mana curve that give you energy that this would simply be a 5-colour Mox with no drawback. If they can't print a land that taps for any colour without a drawback, a 0-mana artifact isn't going to happen either. Even if it didn't add any energy itself (so that it had to have other energy enablers), it would still be too powerful.
but I did play when Mox Opal was legal, and I didn't think that was OP for Standard.
Standard has changed quite a bit since then. We don't even get Llanowar Elves anymore because they're "too powerful for Standard". Also, Mox Opal was Legendary, and required Metalcraft to work.
They could have added a sacrificial clause on the card though, since flavor-wise it depends on energy (and might have a short existence) and that brings to mind the Aetherborn.
The problem is deciding whether what the sacrificial clause will be ("At the beginning of each end step, if you have no energy counters, sacrifice Mox Aether" or "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you gained no energy since your last upkeep, sacrifice Mox Aether")... because an energy decks seem capable of meeting either condition continuously.
It'll definitely be Legendary, they were already cautious back then with Mox Opal and considering how much more they are nowadays...
The big deal with mox cards is they have to produce mana and cost 0.
Making it legendary was a stretch, and Mox Opal is a stupid card, especially as it only really works with a lot of artifacts.
You could easily make a mox that uses energy to produce mana, but that would be just as terrible as Mox Opal is and a hell lot easier to abuse in constructed (type 2 at least as it has energy as a theme).
Outside of that, in other formats, you dont really have energy, so it would be a terrible card, or a stupid strong card.
Reason enough that you have to think about simply not printing it.
----
The kinda fix is to make the mox cards masterpieces and just ignore them
2 cmc mana rocks, 2 cmc rampant growth effects, 1 cmc birds/elves are "too strong for Standard" (probably because of the eldrazi), but you want 0 cmc mana rock?
Nice logic.
But it's funny that there are no mana rocks for 1 cmc outside of the overpowered Sol Ring and Mana Vault.
Then they started to print a ton of 1 drops in green that produced mana until they started to think these are too strong and stopped (now we have 2 mana creatures in green that produce mana, way worse but hey).
Then they started to print a ton of 1 drops in green that produced mana until they started to think these are too strong and stopped (now we have 2 mana creatures in green that produce mana, way worse but hey).
It's less that they were too strong and more that they limited what could be printed. Every green 3-drop had to be designed keeping in mind that it might be coming down turn 2 off an elf. It's a similar reason for why they moved away from Dark Ritual: it required every black 3-drop to be designed with the idea it might be ritualed out on turn 1.
Then they started to print a ton of 1 drops in green that produced mana until they started to think these are too strong and stopped (now we have 2 mana creatures in green that produce mana, way worse but hey).
It's less that they were too strong and more that they limited what could be printed. Every green 3-drop had to be designed keeping in mind that it might be coming down turn 2 off an elf. It's a similar reason for why they moved away from Dark Ritual: it required every black 3-drop to be designed with the idea it might be ritualed out on turn 1.
Well thats a problem you will always have, if your mana acceleration is good enough that you want to play it consistent, it will speed up the deck.
The 2 drop that produces mana will do that too, it will make the 4 drops come down a turn earlier.
----
The most critical problem of the 1 mana creatures was the turn 2 stone rain effect they had at 3 mana , which was the classic LD play (destroy the 1 land they have and keep doing so till they give up, or beat them with some 4+ drop).
----
Same deal with the cycles of 2 mana artifacts.
They are good enough that every deck wants that acceleration (and fixing) and the fact that you have 5x4 available gives you plenty of them, so suddenly every 4 drop becomes more like a 3 drop etc.
----
A mox has the problem that it does all this and starts in turn 1, playing a 2 drop right away is some form of "time warp" powerlevel as you are 1 turn ahead of your opponent.
And if the existence of a mox means a deck suddenly becomes 1+ turns faster, thats a huge upgrade.
A format in which a mox exists also becomes way more annoying to mulligan into (as hands with a mox are overall faster, hands without it are much worse).
be overpowered? I think it fits with Mox Opal's metalcraft requirement in that it's still a mox (costs 0, produces mana) but is balanced by the fact that you cannot use it turn 1 to accelerate.
Anyway, a Mox that produces C is bound to be printed someday.
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be overpowered? I think it fits with Mox Opal's metalcraft requirement in that it's still a mox (costs 0, produces mana) but is balanced by the fact that you cannot use it turn 1 to accelerate.
Anyway, a Mox that produces C is bound to be printed someday.
The issue is that if they were to print that mox they would have to make energy weaker, or it leads to some overpowering starts, (for example if aether hub was still in the set that would lead to a 2 drop on turn 1, which would be really good in an aggro deck). The issue becomes balancing the environment with the mox, and at some point it wouldn't be worth it.
Also whether it's overpowered or not that card doesn't look like it would be a fun magic card. It's a really high variance card, that leads to either really good starts, or being useless, either way that doesn't sound fun to play with.
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The issue is that if they were to print that mox they would have to make energy weaker, or it leads to some overpowering starts, (for example if aether hub was still in the set that would lead to a 2 drop on turn 1, which would be really good in an aggro deck).
Only a colorless 2-drop T1, though, since the energy from Aether Hub would be used on Mox Aether and the the land is stuck with colorless mana too.
That's not to say there aren't useful 2-drop artifacts, but limiting you to a 2-drop colorless option T1 is less scary than any 2-drop.
The issue is that if they were to print that mox they would have to make energy weaker, or it leads to some overpowering starts, (for example if aether hub was still in the set that would lead to a 2 drop on turn 1, which would be really good in an aggro deck).
Only a colorless 2-drop T1, though, since the energy from Aether Hub would be used on Mox Aether and the the land is stuck with colorless mana too.
That's not to say there aren't useful 2-drop artifacts, but limiting you to a 2-drop colorless option T1 is less scary than any 2-drop.
It would mean Smuggler's Copter turn 1, which would be pretty ridiculous.
Even for controllish energy builds, having the easy way to get a free +1 mana accelerates all you are doing by 1 turn , and the chance to have multiples will just make it worse (as these mox wouldnt even have real card disadvantage, like chrome mox did, which also made the game a lot more annoying, as the existence of a mox makes a format terrible random).
They can make a non-busted one, they just worry about missing the mark and have to banhammer it.
Mox Aether, 0
Artifact
When ~ enters the battlefield, you get E.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you get E. EE,t: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
They can make a non-busted one, they just worry about missing the mark and have to banhammer it.
Mox Aether, 0
Artifact
When ~ enters the battlefield, you get E.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you get E. EE,t: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
How about something such as this..
Mox Aether, 0
Legendary Artifact t: Gain an E. EEEEEE, Sacrifice Mox Aether: Add 3 mana of any color to your mana pool.
They can make a non-busted one, they just worry about missing the mark and have to banhammer it.
Mox Aether, 0
Artifact
When ~ enters the battlefield, you get E.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you get E. EE,t: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
How about something such as this..
Mox Aether, 0
Legendary Artifact t: Gain an E. EEEEEE, Sacrifice Mox Aether: Add 3 mana of any color to your mana pool.
That's nerfing it a bit too much IMO. It's also too parasitic. Without additional energy support, its unplayable. And it's the Lotuses that you sac for mana, not the Moxes (some Lotus don't even require a sac). I'd rather see a card that can stand alone and still be playable, but get better with the right support. Just my opinion tho.
Another option could be something like "sac when ETB unless you pay EE" and just "T: Add one of any color", but I still don't like how parasitic it is.
Practically every card posted here is way too parasitic or just flatout broken. Like, lotus petal is overpowered as ****. Mox crystal is a smidge worse than sol ring, but think of modern eldrazi with mox crystal. Super broken. Pay EE when it EtB or sack it is lotus petal at worst/broken in older formats and even in standard turn 1 attune with aether, mox, pay the energy to keep it around permanently for a mox diamond is straight up OP and isn't even some magical christmas land scenario as there are other energy producers as well.
You can't print a mox that says T, pay EE: Make 1 of any color that generates an energy at the beginning of your upkeep for limited purposes. Lead with it turn 1 in limited and you will have basically unlimited energy as well as a busted accelerant potentially or just go turn 1 that, turn 2 thriving something. Or turn 1 thriving turtle + energy mox sounds just like delver of secrets and tarmogoyf merged into one card.
I now get why aether mox was not printed. Too busted, or just flatout bad. Player reception to either would be negative.
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Practically every card posted here is way too parasitic or just flatout broken. Like, lotus petal is overpowered as ****. Mox crystal is a smidge worse than sol ring, but think of modern eldrazi with mox crystal. Super broken. Pay EE when it EtB or sack it is lotus petal at worst/broken in older formats and even in standard turn 1 attune with aether, mox, pay the energy to keep it around permanently for a mox diamond is straight up OP and isn't even some magical christmas land scenario as there are other energy producers as well.
You can't print a mox that says T, pay EE: Make 1 of any color that generates an energy at the beginning of your upkeep for limited purposes. Lead with it turn 1 in limited and you will have basically unlimited energy as well as a busted accelerant potentially or just go turn 1 that, turn 2 thriving something. Or turn 1 thriving turtle + energy mox sounds just like delver of secrets and tarmogoyf merged into one card.
I now get why aether mox was not printed. Too busted, or just flatout bad. Player reception to either would be negative.
I agree with most of this except saying that a mox that produces one energy on your upkeep and cost two plus tapping to produce a mana would be to powerful for Limited. Any mox they print would be at mythic, and they've printed broken stuff at rare and even uncommon that would get first picked over an aether mox regularly. Also, it would take a dedicated energy deck to really utilize it fully. Most decks with just a handful of energy cards would only moderately benefit from running it.
Have you really drafted kaladesh at all? The number of energy outlets is vast. Energy producer that is also an outlet in one of the most mana hungry limited environments I've ever seen is broken. Mythic or not, they shouldn't print cards like that for limited 'because hey they'll rarely be opened' by that rationale pack rat was completely fine to print same with jitte.
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They can make a non-busted one, they just worry about missing the mark and have to banhammer it.
Mox Aether, 0
Artifact
When ~ enters the battlefield, you get E.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you get E. EE,t: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
How about something such as this..
Mox Aether, 0
Legendary Artifact t: Gain an E. EEEEEE, Sacrifice Mox Aether: Add 3 mana of any color to your mana pool.
That's nerfing it a bit too much IMO. It's also too parasitic. Without additional energy support, its unplayable. And it's the Lotuses that you sac for mana, not the Moxes (some Lotus don't even require a sac). I'd rather see a card that can stand alone and still be playable, but get better with the right support. Just my opinion tho.
Drop the cost to EEEE, and it's a Lotus Bloom that's easier to interact with, and provides Energy support.
It's a fair point that that card design would be an Aether Lotus, not an Aether Mox, though.
The following seem like the obvious choice for a Kaladeshi mox
Mox Aether (0)
artifact
T: Gain E
Or alternatively have it add a E when it enters, then have T, pay E: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool.
What are the problems with these that would have prevented them from seeing print. For the latter, is a Lotus Petal that can sometimes be reused (or often reused if you commit to a linear archetype) really too much for Standard? Would a zero cost energy producer have been too much for the format, or would it have been to weak to be called a mox?
Clearly, this was the case, but I'm having trouble seeing why. I haven't played Standard in a couple years, so that might be part of the problem, but I did play when Mox Opal was legal, and I didn't think that was OP for Standard. What are your guys thoughts?
Edit: I originally put lotus petal in mana brackets instead of card brackets. (LotUSPEtal is the result.
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In Standard it seems like it would be somewhat OP. There is already an Energy deck in Standard that I have seen achieve turn 4 wins. Adding a Mox to the mix that either grants more energy or uses energy to generate mana means it would only see play in that one deck and would also ramp that deck in a way no other deck can. And, since Energy doesn't go away at the end of the turn, players can just keep using it every turn to store up more and more as they see fit.
The issue with Standard might not be as much of an issue as I think it would, but this is what I believe R&D were thinking of when trying to develop one.
Also, there is a "tradition" of making Moxen playable in many formats. Mox Opal and Chrome Mox are played in the formats they are legal in but to develop a Mox that would see play in only Standard and basically nowhere else seems odd.
This isn't to say they couldn't develop something different than what you are proposing, but your suggestions have a few issues (and I am guessing that R&D tried both as they are both fairly obvious designs).
In regards to the second version, but you are basically designing a Lotus Petal you don't have to sacrifice. Every deck would run the full set.
EDIT: I see you did recognize that your version is a Lotus Petal and yes, I think it would be too much for Standard.
I think that explains the energy producing one away immediately. I believe the one that uses energy could see legacy and vintage play, as Lotus Petal does and it is (almost) strictly better (being able to recur the petal makes the petal better in vintage due to Yawg's will, but the petal is restricted there). If that energy deck would be powered to turn three wins by it though, that does seem to be enough to put it over the top in Standard, even if it is substantially weaker than Opal, just because Opal didn't have a deck to power to a turn 3 win. While I don't think it would be OP for Standard, I could see it being enough of a worry for Development to kill it. That seems reasonable.
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"Lotus Petal" as base power?
That's extremely overpowered. At least make it legendary. I think that would still be too powerful.
Just an energy producer? Maybe.
Thread | Draft
Aether Lotus (0)
Artifact
T: Add C to your mana pool.
Sacrifice Aether Lotus: Gain EEE.
Edit: would probably need to exile it to gain the E
Mox Crystal is truly the most conspicuous missing Mox. Conspiracy 3 maybe?
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That's not a Mox. Moxes add mana. So that's why that card wasn't printed.
There are more than enough good cards along the mana curve that give you energy that this would simply be a 5-colour Mox with no drawback. If they can't print a land that taps for any colour without a drawback, a 0-mana artifact isn't going to happen either. Even if it didn't add any energy itself (so that it had to have other energy enablers), it would still be too powerful.
Standard has changed quite a bit since then. We don't even get Llanowar Elves anymore because they're "too powerful for Standard". Also, Mox Opal was Legendary, and required Metalcraft to work.
The problem is deciding whether what the sacrificial clause will be ("At the beginning of each end step, if you have no energy counters, sacrifice Mox Aether" or "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you gained no energy since your last upkeep, sacrifice Mox Aether")... because an energy decks seem capable of meeting either condition continuously.
It'll definitely be Legendary, they were already cautious back then with Mox Opal and considering how much more they are nowadays...
Making it legendary was a stretch, and Mox Opal is a stupid card, especially as it only really works with a lot of artifacts.
You could easily make a mox that uses energy to produce mana, but that would be just as terrible as Mox Opal is and a hell lot easier to abuse in constructed (type 2 at least as it has energy as a theme).
Outside of that, in other formats, you dont really have energy, so it would be a terrible card, or a stupid strong card.
Reason enough that you have to think about simply not printing it.
----
The kinda fix is to make the mox cards masterpieces and just ignore them
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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1 mana slot was covered by green with Birds of Paradise and Llanowar Elves for like an eternity.
Then they started to print a ton of 1 drops in green that produced mana until they started to think these are too strong and stopped (now we have 2 mana creatures in green that produce mana, way worse but hey).
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It's less that they were too strong and more that they limited what could be printed. Every green 3-drop had to be designed keeping in mind that it might be coming down turn 2 off an elf. It's a similar reason for why they moved away from Dark Ritual: it required every black 3-drop to be designed with the idea it might be ritualed out on turn 1.
Well thats a problem you will always have, if your mana acceleration is good enough that you want to play it consistent, it will speed up the deck.
The 2 drop that produces mana will do that too, it will make the 4 drops come down a turn earlier.
----
The most critical problem of the 1 mana creatures was the turn 2 stone rain effect they had at 3 mana , which was the classic LD play (destroy the 1 land they have and keep doing so till they give up, or beat them with some 4+ drop).
----
Same deal with the cycles of 2 mana artifacts.
They are good enough that every deck wants that acceleration (and fixing) and the fact that you have 5x4 available gives you plenty of them, so suddenly every 4 drop becomes more like a 3 drop etc.
----
A mox has the problem that it does all this and starts in turn 1, playing a 2 drop right away is some form of "time warp" powerlevel as you are 1 turn ahead of your opponent.
And if the existence of a mox means a deck suddenly becomes 1+ turns faster, thats a huge upgrade.
A format in which a mox exists also becomes way more annoying to mulligan into (as hands with a mox are overall faster, hands without it are much worse).
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A crystal mox would be nice.
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Mox Aether 0
Artifact
Et: Add C to your mana pool.
be overpowered? I think it fits with Mox Opal's metalcraft requirement in that it's still a mox (costs 0, produces mana) but is balanced by the fact that you cannot use it turn 1 to accelerate.
Anyway, a Mox that produces C is bound to be printed someday.
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The issue is that if they were to print that mox they would have to make energy weaker, or it leads to some overpowering starts, (for example if aether hub was still in the set that would lead to a 2 drop on turn 1, which would be really good in an aggro deck). The issue becomes balancing the environment with the mox, and at some point it wouldn't be worth it.
Also whether it's overpowered or not that card doesn't look like it would be a fun magic card. It's a really high variance card, that leads to either really good starts, or being useless, either way that doesn't sound fun to play with.
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That's not to say there aren't useful 2-drop artifacts, but limiting you to a 2-drop colorless option T1 is less scary than any 2-drop.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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It would mean Smuggler's Copter turn 1, which would be pretty ridiculous.
Even for controllish energy builds, having the easy way to get a free +1 mana accelerates all you are doing by 1 turn , and the chance to have multiples will just make it worse (as these mox wouldnt even have real card disadvantage, like chrome mox did, which also made the game a lot more annoying, as the existence of a mox makes a format terrible random).
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Mox Aether, 0
Artifact
When ~ enters the battlefield, you get E.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you get E.
EE,t: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
How about something such as this..
Mox Aether, 0
Legendary Artifact
t: Gain an E.
EEEEEE, Sacrifice Mox Aether: Add 3 mana of any color to your mana pool.
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Another option could be something like "sac when ETB unless you pay EE" and just "T: Add one of any color", but I still don't like how parasitic it is.
You can't print a mox that says T, pay EE: Make 1 of any color that generates an energy at the beginning of your upkeep for limited purposes. Lead with it turn 1 in limited and you will have basically unlimited energy as well as a busted accelerant potentially or just go turn 1 that, turn 2 thriving something. Or turn 1 thriving turtle + energy mox sounds just like delver of secrets and tarmogoyf merged into one card.
I now get why aether mox was not printed. Too busted, or just flatout bad. Player reception to either would be negative.
Currently Playing:
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Currently Playing:
Retired
It's a fair point that that card design would be an Aether Lotus, not an Aether Mox, though.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)