So there's talk about a possible new format, "frontier" going around that is said to be the brainchild of vendors.
So far the argument for "frontier" existing is that it's a supposed lower cost of entry than other formats.
I'm asking the community,
Is price alone enough to justify a new format?
What else besides price is going to make a format worth endorsing by the players?
Are we potentially getting a bad deal as far as the depth of the potentially new meta if $ is the reason for the meta existing?
So there's talk about a possible new format, "frontier" going around that is said to be the brainchild of vendors.
So far the argument for "frontier" existing is that it's a supposed lower cost of entry than other formats.
I'm asking the community,
Is price alone enough to justify a new format?
What else besides price is going to make a format worth endorsing by the players?
Are we potentially getting a bad deal as far as the depth of the potentially new meta if $ is the reason for the meta existing?
Please share your thoughts! Thank you!
The answer is no, because inevitably it will suffer the same lack of care that has led to ridiculous prices in every other format. Modern was already supposed to address this and failed in that regard. Why would this be any different?
Potentially learning from the mistakes of Modern?
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
Pauper is the real budget format. Tier 1 decks are around $30 to $80 bucks compared to $70 to $450 from current Standard. However, imagine if this format was really supported in paper. Like having official GPT/PTQ, FNM, and GPs. I imagine some cards would explode in price making it closer to Standard prices. At least WotC would have less problems reprinting for this format.
Anyway, price alone isn't the main or the only factor. I think the support from WotC and the community are far more important than that. If price was that really important factor, pauper/peasant would be everywhere in paper. Pauper is better supported in MTGO, so it's popular and relevant there, but with no official support from WotC, it's just a fringe paper format in some places.
tbh I think the main reason I've seen people show interest in Frontier is that it'll be "cheaper" to get into than Modern. I mean there will be increased demand for staples but they'll still be readily available for cheap
1. There is already a thread for Frontier on the front page, I don't see why this needed to be split off from that.
2. That is not the only, or even largest, argument for Frontier. Modern's reliance on under costed, efficient cards which push the game shorter and shorter comes up more often in discussion and is a legitimate grievance.
3. Any format that gets enough players is self-justifying. The only way to know if Frontier is worth perusing is to have shops try it out and see how popular it is. Paper pauper is played all over, but by a relatively tiny percentage of the player base, which is why it hasn't gotten much attention from above.
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Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
When type 2 (ie standard) was created, it was supppsed to be cheaper than type 1. While it _is_ cheapER, it isn't cheap at all.
Legacy, when it was adpated from type 1.5, was supposed to be cheaper (hence, mana drain was banned), Look where it is now.
Modern was supposed to be cheap, allowing players to hold on to their cards . Look where it is now.
EDH was supposed to be cheap (hey, only 1 card). While they COULD be built cheap, it isn't.
ANY format, once it becomes popular enough, ceases to be cheap.
Agreed with all the above. The price entry point for this format will be cheap but in the long it will be just the same as any other format.
If this becomes popular enough, the prices will spike then it will cease to affordable by the majority. The only thing that can save a new format and make it cheap even 10 years from now is reprints. Let's be honest, it's not like WoTC have a good reprint policy unless they support this format and reprint like crazy for this format if supported.
I don't mind if they reprint CoCo aand reduce the value of my playsets to like @30 if it means that i have more opponents to play with.
I said this once, but modern was inevitably going to die and be replaced with a format with the newest card border and moving forward inevitably. Sure it won't be a long term solution, but WotC is all about short term if you look at it they don't care about modern, they care about selling the most product they can of in print sets. If they wanted to fix modern, make goyf a normal rare in a modern masters sets or a mythic in a standard set. Do the same with other exorbitantly prices cards. Only then will the speculators disappear who ruin the game.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
When type 2 (ie standard) was created, it was supppsed to be cheaper than type 1. While it _is_ cheapER, it isn't cheap at all.
Legacy, when it was adpated from type 1.5, was supposed to be cheaper (hence, mana drain was banned), Look where it is now.
Modern was supposed to be cheap, allowing players to hold on to their cards . Look where it is now.
EDH was supposed to be cheap (hey, only 1 card). While they COULD be built cheap, it isn't.
ANY format, once it becomes popular enough, ceases to be cheap.
Basically this. The price barrier to entry is largely caused by format popularity creating demand for the cards playable in the format. (Older formats also have slowly diminishing supply of certain cards that don't get reprinted.) If the format is popular, people want to play with the cards that are used, and the prices for those cards go up and/or stay high. If the format isn't popular, the cards' value goes down over time.
As long as Magic continues to grow and players find and support new ways to play the game, while such a large disparity exists between what Wizards will reprint and the quantities the players actually need for their formats to thrive, the rise of the price of cards in any format that gains popularity is inevitable.
Anything that is trying to be budget (except pauper) will only be budget at the start when it's not popular. If it gains traction, the demand will rise and so will prices. It's inevitable.
Anything that is trying to be budget (except pauper) will only be budget at the start when it's not popular. If it gains traction, the demand will rise and so will prices. It's inevitable.
The primary issue is that Wizards hasn't built a true format that works for constructed players. The constructed format as we know it is currently a construct of the secondary market and subject to a whole lot of forces in a completely unregulated mass of insanity.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So there's talk about a possible new format, "frontier" going around that is said to be the brainchild of vendors.
So far the argument for "frontier" existing is that it's a supposed lower cost of entry than other formats.
I'm asking the community,
Is price alone enough to justify a new format?
What else besides price is going to make a format worth endorsing by the players?
Are we potentially getting a bad deal as far as the depth of the potentially new meta if $ is the reason for the meta existing?
Please share your thoughts! Thank you!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
-Chandra Nalaar
Anyway, price alone isn't the main or the only factor. I think the support from WotC and the community are far more important than that. If price was that really important factor, pauper/peasant would be everywhere in paper. Pauper is better supported in MTGO, so it's popular and relevant there, but with no official support from WotC, it's just a fringe paper format in some places.
2. That is not the only, or even largest, argument for Frontier. Modern's reliance on under costed, efficient cards which push the game shorter and shorter comes up more often in discussion and is a legitimate grievance.
3. Any format that gets enough players is self-justifying. The only way to know if Frontier is worth perusing is to have shops try it out and see how popular it is. Paper pauper is played all over, but by a relatively tiny percentage of the player base, which is why it hasn't gotten much attention from above.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Legacy, when it was adpated from type 1.5, was supposed to be cheaper (hence, mana drain was banned), Look where it is now.
Modern was supposed to be cheap, allowing players to hold on to their cards . Look where it is now.
EDH was supposed to be cheap (hey, only 1 card). While they COULD be built cheap, it isn't.
ANY format, once it becomes popular enough, ceases to be cheap.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Agreed with all the above. The price entry point for this format will be cheap but in the long it will be just the same as any other format.
If this becomes popular enough, the prices will spike then it will cease to affordable by the majority. The only thing that can save a new format and make it cheap even 10 years from now is reprints. Let's be honest, it's not like WoTC have a good reprint policy unless they support this format and reprint like crazy for this format if supported.
I don't mind if they reprint CoCo aand reduce the value of my playsets to like @30 if it means that i have more opponents to play with.
EDH
Roon of the Hidden Realms UGW
Modern
UW TronUW
Blocks Constructed
KamigawaU|Return to RavnicaUW|TherosUWG
Go to this reddit here: Frontier
There has been very good turnouts and varying results in decklists.
EDH
Roon of the Hidden Realms UGW
Modern
UW TronUW
Blocks Constructed
KamigawaU|Return to RavnicaUW|TherosUWG
-Chandra Nalaar
Currently Playing:
Retired
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
(Also known as Xenphire)
The primary issue is that Wizards hasn't built a true format that works for constructed players. The constructed format as we know it is currently a construct of the secondary market and subject to a whole lot of forces in a completely unregulated mass of insanity.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!