I can't see this format being cheaper than modern, I mean, don't you remember how expensive were the 4 color decks before SOI? Unless you count only as new players those who bought enough standard staples since m15 every deck should be as expensive as the average tier 2 modern deck. Also we definitely would need a starting banlist unless we don't have a problem playing only abzan mirrors.
In addition to this, the "staples" of this format are only cheap because they are either entirely unplayed in any format or they are still in a standard legal set. If this format were to become popular, the rotated cards would spike, and the additional demand on standard legal cards would increase prices there as well. This format will not stay affordable if it takes off, it is simply cheap to get in on the ground floor, albeit not much cheaper than modern is currently
As a player who started in 1997, quit in 2009 with the release of Zendikar and recently came back for Shadows Over Innistrad, this format idea really intrigues me. Unfortunately, I don't think it will go anywhere. But I'll definitely keep an eye on it, especially at my LGS. There aren't many modern players because of the cost barrier, and I won't build a modern deck for the same reason. So we'll see how it goes.
I made the deck thinking in Abzan and Atarka Aggro as potential tier 1 decks, so by TCG Player prices the current list is about 437.78 usd WITHOUT any price push the format popularity might have on some singles like Jace, Vryn's prodigy would experiment -or all the ally fetchlands for that matter. The current standard (deck which is not cheap) that I plan to finish so I can participate next game day is 321.52 usd (again by TCG Player prices). Of course ~400 bucks is still a far cry from the ~1300 my Jeskai Harbinger deck costs, but I can easily see format popularity pushing prices to 600 or 800 bucks. The format could only be accessible for previous standard players who didn't get rid of their staples and honestly I don't see it as replacement for modern save the change of 'rhythm' which is why I like playing standard as bolt and other modern staples make some really nice cards unplayable.
Remember Eternal a.k.a. No Reserved List Legacy? That format was basically stillborn because it lacked any identity and had no selling point. This is more of the same. What's the format selling point, exactly? The fact that you don't get to play with the old broken cards but there's no rotation so the Rhinos and Collected Companies of the format, unless banned, won't ever go away?
The "format is cheap" argument is not going to hold once people realize they have to run 3 playsets of fetchlands to support any given 3-colored deck, just like Khans-BFZ Standard. It's anything but cheap if you have to pay 175$ just for the lands.
Sure, Modern does need reprints to bring the prices down, but creating yet another arbitrarily drawn format hardly seems to be the solution. A succesful new format should offer something quite different from what the other formats do, but all Frontier seemingly has to offer as of now are the same things we've seen in Standard for the past year - and that doesn't fall under my definition of "fun", "fresh" or "interesting".
If price is an issue, people should just play Pauper. Like many have said, if this format were to actually take off the prices of staples would skyrocket anyway.
*edit* As someone in the Reddit thread said, though, it's a good way for these vendors to unload some recently rotated cards onto prospective players.
So mutch negativity and defeatist atitude. Its abit to oearly for it but i think is a good idea to make a format with cards from this new order of design and have a good reason to sue all of those playsets of Rhinos, Sidisis, Mantis Riders, etc that are molding in a box somewhere.
Its a good way for the stores to sell all the bulk rares from last standanrt, for the new player will still be expensive to get a playset of each fetchland, jaces, lilianas, kalitas, ugins, all lands ...
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Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
I'm surprised with the direction of the negativity here (not entirely surprised by the negativity itself though). I mean, while I personally think it's a tad too early for the format to actually manifest (I'm already imagining Abzan and Delve for days in the format) and as a result it feels way too much of a gimmick to get rid of bulk rares from KTK that rotated for now... the concept itself isn't bad.
You can't compare this with "Unreserved", simply because the supply is vastly different - EMA had a print run equal (or less) than MM1's print run and since we don't know if there's a EMA2, the supply for Unreserved is literally no different than that of Legacy, honestly (and MM itself proved two reprint sets don't get you enough staples for a whole deck either).
For those saying "but fetchlands and chase cards" are expensive"... I'm afraid to tell you that they're probably still around their lowest prices now (the same way Modern was if you hopped on it in 2009). It'll probably cost you as much to build a Standard deck as it is to build a Frontier deck, or at least much closer to Standard than Modern prices (in the same tiers). If you can't afford those prices, you probably couldn't afford Standard either and honestly, the game itself is probably too expensive for you in its entirely. So despite my thinking that it's way too early for the format to debut, the hypothetical preparation for the format is also at its lowest cost possible now.
the problem isnt the formats, but the singles/collectible aspect of mtg. cards will be expensive, always. cards are made expensive because people want them, they got into extreme prices with edh, it will happen to any format that is popular, it isn't a solution to pricing to make new formats
new formats are nice for new metagame/decks . will that happen? or just revisiting old standard decks with twists, i don't think that's needed
but new formats are fun, anything that makes you think in different ways and try new/rethink cards is great
until it becomes netdecking
magic is a super pricy hobby, yes you can play it without spending tones, but you wont experience every part of it, and definately not competitive aspect/success
the problem isnt the formats, but the singles/collectible aspect of mtg. cards will be expensive, always. cards are made expensive because people want them, they got into extreme prices with edh, it will happen to any format that is popular, it isn't a solution to pricing to make new formats
Yeah I agree. It isn't the formats that's a problem its the singles, very expensive for some of the cards to jump into any format. If Wizards & Mark were alluding to this format being made perhaps they have a plan to reprint a lot so it's cheaper for newer players to get into the new format.
The Modern format has been introduced in 2011, with cards from 2003.
In a similar way, the Frontier format is tested in 2016, with cards from 2015.
I may be wrong, but I think that Frontier is created because Magic is in a new phase of growth. Frontier will help to get the massive amount of new players globally hooked for the longer term. All these new players may not be able to enter the Modern format due to high costs (and skill) required. Now with your investment in recent sets, you can play not only Standard (which is short-term) but also Frontier (which is designed to last).
It's gonna be good for the game, it means more tourneys with affordable decks, more players and possibly more prize money
I really hope WotC finds a way to reprint the crap out of all these cards coming out, yes they are in huge quantities now but wait 3 years later, will those cards still be easy and accessible to the newer players? This format could potentially have the same problem as Modern if they do not figure out a way to reprint the formats staples like crazy. I welcome this format and looking very much forward to it.
I'm curious to see where this goes and if it takes off. I have a large herd of Siege Rhino, and while I don't think I'd sell them, if they went up to $20-25 it'd be very tempting to cash out on them
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Decks
Modern BGR Jund RGB BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB BWGAbzan CompanyGWB
Bleh. So many awesomely fun cards from RTR to Theros.
I mean I get that you don't want to have Thoughtseize: The Gathering, but it seems like wherever you pick some absurdly powerful midrange card is going to define the format.
I expect the two decks will be JVP/Dig/TC, and Coco. Not enough depth of functionally identical cards to support aggro decks.
Bleh. So many awesomely fun cards from RTR to Theros.
I mean I get that you don't want to have Thoughtseize: The Gathering, but it seems like wherever you pick some absurdly powerful midrange card is going to define the format.
I expect the two decks will be JVP/Dig/TC, and Coco. Not enough depth of functionally identical cards to support aggro decks.
Yes, those sets have so many good cards in them. The problem is that they are kinda hard to get at the moment. Thoughtseize is kinda pricey.
Yeah I agree the new format does need more depth and functionality, but as time goes on with more sets coming out the problem will be solved. I hope Seige Rhinos don't reach even near that price point. Really hope WoTC reviews their reprint policy for this new format if they choose to support it.
At my local store I've gotten people interested in expanding it back to RTR block and it has been very fair so far. Aggro, Control, Midrange and Combo are all present. We decided not to include M13 because Thragtusk is cancer.
For those saying "but fetchlands and chase cards" are expensive"... I'm afraid to tell you that they're probably still around their lowest prices now (the same way Modern was if you hopped on it in 2009). It'll probably cost you as much to build a Standard deck as it is to build a Frontier deck, or at least much closer to Standard than Modern prices (in the same tiers). If you can't afford those prices, you probably couldn't afford Standard either and honestly, the game itself is probably too expensive for you in its entirely. So despite my thinking that it's way too early for the format to debut, the hypothetical preparation for the format is also at its lowest cost possible now.
Yes, but why get into that format now if nearly nobody plays it? Why bind money in cards just because the format might or might not take of?
I actually did exactly this with modern, even before modern was announced (i used shockduals in legacy decks, to give legacy budget decks a fairer matchup, and mostly used cards i couldn´t use in legacy).
I build some tiny leaders decks, and i got to play one of them once. Its collecting dust ever since.
Why should someone go into another format now while its cheap if its likly to never be played? And if it becomes an intresting format, by then the prices will be high.
Frontier is closer to Modern than to Tiny Leaders. EDH is a format that has its own share of problems (and effectively split into several sub-formats of Multiplayer, French and "Duel-Commander with Multiplayer Banned List"). Tiny Leaders was a novel idea based on a format that was already relatively unstable (and not quite present in every store as opposed to the classic 60-card 2-player formats).
Like I said before, I feel it's too early for Frontier to debut as a format (since it's basically Extended at the moment), but people were using the reasons that (KTK Fetchlands in particular) cards that just rotated were too expensive, when generally speaking, cards are usually drop to their lowest at this point of their life cycle and to deem the format as not going to succeed because of that doesn't quite make sense to me. It's like telling me Modern wouldn't succeed back in 2009 when original Shocklands were at their lowest prices because they were "too expensive". Yes, at face-value the fetches cost more, but once you take into account inflation and growth of the game, it's pretty much the same cycle all over again.
My example of deck-building was more of an example of the cycle rather than an encouragement to literally build a deck into the format, but when it comes to the obvious staples, the theory still stands.
You guys are forgetting a ton of other decks that saw play during the M15 standard. UR Ensoul, Atarka Red, Mono Red Aggro, GW Bolster, just to name a few. Like every format, there will be stalwarts (i.e. Abzan Aggro/midrange, 4 color rally) but that shouldn't stop people from playing the format. To be honest, this format is another way to reward players who have suck with the game from M15 and beyond.
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In addition to this, the "staples" of this format are only cheap because they are either entirely unplayed in any format or they are still in a standard legal set. If this format were to become popular, the rotated cards would spike, and the additional demand on standard legal cards would increase prices there as well. This format will not stay affordable if it takes off, it is simply cheap to get in on the ground floor, albeit not much cheaper than modern is currently
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Hard to say at this point if it will be an evergreen format!
This speculated "frontier" format appears to be nothing more than vendors coordinating for a cash grab in the guise of "affordability"
I'm pretty disappointed.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
4x Flooded Strand
2x Inspiring Vantage
4x Island
2x Mountain
2x Plains
3x Port Town
1x Prairie Stream
2x Spirebluff Canal
4x Wandering Fumarole
Planeswalker 2
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Creature 10
4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Monastery Mentor
2x Soulfire Grand Master
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Dig Through Time
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Invasive Surgery
2x Jeskai Charm
4x Lightning Strike
2x Negate
1x Ojutai's Command
4x Stoke the Flames
Sorcery 4
4x Incendiary Flow
2x Ceremonious Rejection
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Dragonlord Ojutai
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Fumigate
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Ojutai's Command
I made the deck thinking in Abzan and Atarka Aggro as potential tier 1 decks, so by TCG Player prices the current list is about 437.78 usd WITHOUT any price push the format popularity might have on some singles like Jace, Vryn's prodigy would experiment -or all the ally fetchlands for that matter. The current standard (deck which is not cheap) that I plan to finish so I can participate next game day is 321.52 usd (again by TCG Player prices). Of course ~400 bucks is still a far cry from the ~1300 my Jeskai Harbinger deck costs, but I can easily see format popularity pushing prices to 600 or 800 bucks. The format could only be accessible for previous standard players who didn't get rid of their staples and honestly I don't see it as replacement for modern save the change of 'rhythm' which is why I like playing standard as bolt and other modern staples make some really nice cards unplayable.
The "format is cheap" argument is not going to hold once people realize they have to run 3 playsets of fetchlands to support any given 3-colored deck, just like Khans-BFZ Standard. It's anything but cheap if you have to pay 175$ just for the lands.
Sure, Modern does need reprints to bring the prices down, but creating yet another arbitrarily drawn format hardly seems to be the solution. A succesful new format should offer something quite different from what the other formats do, but all Frontier seemingly has to offer as of now are the same things we've seen in Standard for the past year - and that doesn't fall under my definition of "fun", "fresh" or "interesting".
*edit* As someone in the Reddit thread said, though, it's a good way for these vendors to unload some recently rotated cards onto prospective players.
Any store which has struggling Standard numbers should seriously consider supporting the format.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
You can't compare this with "Unreserved", simply because the supply is vastly different - EMA had a print run equal (or less) than MM1's print run and since we don't know if there's a EMA2, the supply for Unreserved is literally no different than that of Legacy, honestly (and MM itself proved two reprint sets don't get you enough staples for a whole deck either).
For those saying "but fetchlands and chase cards" are expensive"... I'm afraid to tell you that they're probably still around their lowest prices now (the same way Modern was if you hopped on it in 2009). It'll probably cost you as much to build a Standard deck as it is to build a Frontier deck, or at least much closer to Standard than Modern prices (in the same tiers). If you can't afford those prices, you probably couldn't afford Standard either and honestly, the game itself is probably too expensive for you in its entirely. So despite my thinking that it's way too early for the format to debut, the hypothetical preparation for the format is also at its lowest cost possible now.
new formats are nice for new metagame/decks . will that happen? or just revisiting old standard decks with twists, i don't think that's needed
but new formats are fun, anything that makes you think in different ways and try new/rethink cards is great
until it becomes netdecking
magic is a super pricy hobby, yes you can play it without spending tones, but you wont experience every part of it, and definately not competitive aspect/success
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Yeah I agree. It isn't the formats that's a problem its the singles, very expensive for some of the cards to jump into any format. If Wizards & Mark were alluding to this format being made perhaps they have a plan to reprint a lot so it's cheaper for newer players to get into the new format.
I really hope WotC finds a way to reprint the crap out of all these cards coming out, yes they are in huge quantities now but wait 3 years later, will those cards still be easy and accessible to the newer players? This format could potentially have the same problem as Modern if they do not figure out a way to reprint the formats staples like crazy. I welcome this format and looking very much forward to it.
EDH
Roon of the Hidden Realms UGW
Modern
UW TronUW
Blocks Constructed
KamigawaU|Return to RavnicaUW|TherosUWG
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
I mean I get that you don't want to have Thoughtseize: The Gathering, but it seems like wherever you pick some absurdly powerful midrange card is going to define the format.
I expect the two decks will be JVP/Dig/TC, and Coco. Not enough depth of functionally identical cards to support aggro decks.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Yes, those sets have so many good cards in them. The problem is that they are kinda hard to get at the moment. Thoughtseize is kinda pricey.
Yeah I agree the new format does need more depth and functionality, but as time goes on with more sets coming out the problem will be solved. I hope Seige Rhinos don't reach even near that price point. Really hope WoTC reviews their reprint policy for this new format if they choose to support it.
EDH
Roon of the Hidden Realms UGW
Modern
UW TronUW
Blocks Constructed
KamigawaU|Return to RavnicaUW|TherosUWG
Frontier is closer to Modern than to Tiny Leaders. EDH is a format that has its own share of problems (and effectively split into several sub-formats of Multiplayer, French and "Duel-Commander with Multiplayer Banned List"). Tiny Leaders was a novel idea based on a format that was already relatively unstable (and not quite present in every store as opposed to the classic 60-card 2-player formats).
Like I said before, I feel it's too early for Frontier to debut as a format (since it's basically Extended at the moment), but people were using the reasons that (KTK Fetchlands in particular) cards that just rotated were too expensive, when generally speaking, cards are usually drop to their lowest at this point of their life cycle and to deem the format as not going to succeed because of that doesn't quite make sense to me. It's like telling me Modern wouldn't succeed back in 2009 when original Shocklands were at their lowest prices because they were "too expensive". Yes, at face-value the fetches cost more, but once you take into account inflation and growth of the game, it's pretty much the same cycle all over again.
My example of deck-building was more of an example of the cycle rather than an encouragement to literally build a deck into the format, but when it comes to the obvious staples, the theory still stands.