Kind of curious to see how the b&r announcement hits this format.
Are they going to just mirror the bans in Standard?
I dont know if you are following the Modern thread discussion on this, but these bans are just a symptom of the issue's Wizards has in design and test right now. This format if it becomes a thing, will face all the same issues. Pushed creatures, little way to handle them.
More like "will it generate more interest in frontier?" than if they will mirror the bannings or not. I doubt the ban list will be the same if they even bother to go that far as the format does need it's powerful cards first before anyone can be the judge of what needs to go. Also, Wizards is still trying to find ways to keep interest going on their game. Sealed product was just not selling at the levels they wanted so this is them swooping in and trying to take on the appearance of being more hands on then they really are. Think about it: Wasn't collected company just as bad last season when Bant Coco was dominating? What about during Kahns block with Jeskai? The fact is the company just doesn't know what to do so they are trying everything they can to get things rolling again, and I finally think that wizards might have hit the right buttons with this one.
You're bringing up points that we already discussed to death, though. It doesn't matter because at this point in time for the next year and a half or more, frontier is still going to be in a better position than modern on a pricing front. Not to mention we still don't know what format MTG Digital Next is going to bring with it, because it likely isn't going to be supporting the full modern library. They will have to pick a starting point somewhere and it will likely mirror at least in part what Frontier is right now.
I can't help but feel you may be missing the entire point of Frontier here. No one cares that it is going to face the same problems modern currently faces if it endures. What people care about is that it is an escape from many bad archetypes that plague modern that people can't get away from and it provides an expanding card pool that is more of the recent design space. There is the possibility this may change. There is the possibility it may change soon or it may change in 3 years. What matters is right now.
I'm sorry you have such a negative opinion of the format and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise or change your ways. You found what you like to play in magic and to some degree you see other new formats that may exacerbate a problem the format you enjoy is having. In the end the right answer is to play the format that best meets your expectations, and I along with a growing number of players if the xmage community is anything to go by, like frontier.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. Will it generate more interest, I guess it could, but I'm not sure its a good thing. The Frontier card pool isnt exactly 'answer heavy' either. So if those cards do not get banned they will drive the format (like Dig/Cruise will as well).
2. Do you have sources for this claim that product isnt moving? Constructed doesnt drive Wizards like Limited, they claim that every other week. I dont think they are throwing ***** at the wall to see what will stick. I think they rightly looked at their Constructed Standard format, saw that they screwed up and threats are far greater than answers, and so had to do something about it.
3. If Digital Next doesnt include Modern off the hop, I would imagine it will be Standard block at that time OR will start at Origins. Khans is out of line with 'Frontier' level cards. Delve alone is busted, and I think 'Frontier' will end up banning it. Its honestly a mistake to even start at M15, they should have started at Origins.
4. I dont have a negative view on Frontier. I'm not sure why you would think that unless criticism of the format = dont like it. I read/played/built/tested for a few days with the card pool, and its fine for what it is.
I dont think its going to pull Modern players away in the short term or long term, and I think Wizards likely sees the problems with Modern and either has a plan for their own 'Frontier', or they dont care, and it will (sadly) implode under the recent design and (lack of) test paradigm. Frontier or whatever comes next from Wizards isnt causing problems for Modern. Wizards, is causing problems for Magic and if they dont smarten up, no format other than Limited and Legacy, will survive because Wizards continues to think that creatures are they key to the game, and answers do not generally come in the form of 'just better creatures' without consequence.
1. Will it generate more interest, I guess it could, but I'm not sure its a good thing. The Frontier card pool isnt exactly 'answer heavy' either. So if those cards do not get banned they will drive the format (like Dig/Cruise will as well).
2. Do you have sources for this claim that product isnt moving? Constructed doesnt drive Wizards like Limited, they claim that every other week. I dont think they are throwing ***** at the wall to see what will stick. I think they rightly looked at their Constructed Standard format, saw that they screwed up and threats are far greater than answers, and so had to do something about it.
3. If Digital Next doesnt include Modern off the hop, I would imagine it will be Standard block at that time OR will start at Origins. Khans is out of line with 'Frontier' level cards. Delve alone is busted, and I think 'Frontier' will end up banning it. Its honestly a mistake to even start at M15, they should have started at Origins.
4. I dont have a negative view on Frontier. I'm not sure why you would think that unless criticism of the format = dont like it. I read/played/built/tested for a few days with the card pool, and its fine for what it is.
I dont think its going to pull Modern players away in the short term or long term, and I think Wizards likely sees the problems with Modern and either has a plan for their own 'Frontier', or they dont care, and it will (sadly) implode under the recent design and (lack of) test paradigm. Frontier or whatever comes next from Wizards isnt causing problems for Modern. Wizards, is causing problems for Magic and if they dont smarten up, no format other than Limited and Legacy, will survive because Wizards continues to think that creatures are they key to the game, and answers do not generally come in the form of 'just better creatures' without consequence.
I'm probably misunderstanding the context since there's no face to face when we do these things on a message board. We got Emoticons, but I think we barely use them these days.
Yeah, product isn't moving as much as it used to. Box prices of sealed product are at a historic low, even on sets going out of print like Oath of the Gatewatch. SoI block was kind of a speed bump as well despite the set being rather good, though in that case it's probably because of BFZ having expeditions and Kalidesh having inventions, along with being in such close proximity to Eternal Masters. Poor conspiracy 2 got jammed in there as well and I swear that set deserves more draft time. Actually, the most recent standard booster boxes and commander 2016 are the only products actually selling well as just about all the side products are languishing, and for some reason WoTC cut the print run on Commander 2016. I have no idea why someone would cut the print run on something that is actually selling vs cutting it on Planechase Anthologies or the Planeswalker decks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well frontier has graduated to a real format now. All the cards played in it have been targeted by speculators looking to make a quick buck with Ugin being especially bad. I'm glad I got half the play set before the Spike.
I didn't expect that walker to follow the trajectory of Jace.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Keep costs down was simply never going to happen. Its not like older sets are still in print being cracked enough to feed demand. If thats the primary goal (cost regulation) then it was already going to be a failure.
If the goal is to align with more 'modern' design choices, then that may still be valid. I would start at Origins then, but thats just one opinion.
If the goal is to provide a different experience, then you'll get that certainly, regardless of any other goal success or failure.
However cost was never going to stay down, its nonsensical to believe it could.
If a format has to have tremendous card value spikes to be considered a real format that's pathetic. It isn't real until WotC sanctions it, end of story.
It's pathetic how this game is ruined by people who should be putting their money elsewhere, like the stock market. Then again, I expect nothing from people because people are stupid.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
LOL, a bit excessive Bread. It's just supply and demand, it's not like there are a ton of buy outs going on for Frontier, just a steady rise in interested people and that's chewing up the free stock.
But why should anyone get into frontier now, if prices are going to rise anyway, and have to hope wizards turn it into a "real" format, instead of just playing modern, which sees support in form of masters sets (even if its just minimal support).
Because they want a lower powered format.
Because they want a slower format.
Because they dont have modern staples, and may have a 'Standard' deck that is no longer valid.
There are plenty of reasons. Cost however, should never have been the primary reason because any critical thinking about the format would have come to the conclusion that prices will rise. :]
But why should anyone get into frontier now, if prices are going to rise anyway, and have to hope wizards turn it into a "real" format, instead of just playing modern, which sees support in form of masters sets (even if its just minimal support).
Because they want a lower powered format.
Because they want a slower format.
Because they dont have modern staples, and may have a 'Standard' deck that is no longer valid.
There are plenty of reasons. Cost however, should never have been the primary reason because any critical thinking about the format would have come to the conclusion that prices will rise. :]
That describes Pauper which also provides a very low price wall and high supply.
Won the first local Frontier tournament hereabouts. I was playing Goblin Red; Piledriver and Rabblemaster have a respectable place in this format.
I believe the format is healthy. Looking at deck techs, one can see that the field is actually far more diverse than CoCo/Abzan, regardless of what people might be saying in the thread--there's Temur Flash, Ensoul, and weirder brews messing about. Some recent tourney-winners include rogue brews like Mardu Dragons and Esper Dragons.
Card prices are low. I recommend giving the format a shot, even if you just want a second go at some of the really fun staples that never made a splash in their original Standard meta and couldn't transfer over to Modern.
imo the most important card in the format right now is Dig. Best thing that Wizards could do for the format is pick it up and choose specifically not to ban dig/cruise in order to draw a playerbase in.
i really hope frontier will get some prison strategy deck soon so i can play that and lose friends ahah
Given we just got combo from Kaladesh, I'd actually be surprised if we don't see another oddball deck appear later out of sheer happenstance. Prison might be hard to come by, though. One of the deck types wizards has moved away from was prison since it was not very popular with players.
Also, I agree that Dig is one of the most likely targets for a ban if they ever do create a ban list for the format. Treasure cruise could end up staying, though. Really, Dig through Time and Collected Company are both equally bad cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What competitive players really want is more like a cube format that doesn't rotate and has a managed card pool even if the fanbase on this site would completely disagree. Basically it would be like a standard block where they control the power of the set by keeping only specific cards of a target category in the format. Then, if a card appears broken they print a fixed version later and rotate that into the card pool while rotating the old one out. Meanwhile casual players who want some kind of loose format to officially adhere to can stick with commander and some variation of modern. That way they have an entry eternal format that truly is an eternal format they can throw around on the Pro-tour grounds and leave the entire non-rotating format behind them as a casual format for people to play with old cards.
It's interesting you say this, because I, and a number of other people whose posts I have read, have advocated what Magic Duels has done. In that game, not all the cards from the recent sets are available, and you have deckbuilding restrictions based on the number of copies of the same non-basic land card (4 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare, 1 mythic). If Wizards adopts that particular deckbuilding rule for paper cards, it would shake up the secondary market somewhat and cause people to learn new decks to build, although I concede that could cause some players to leave the game.
What competitive players really want is more like a cube format that doesn't rotate and has a managed card pool even if the fanbase on this site would completely disagree. Basically it would be like a standard block where they control the power of the set by keeping only specific cards of a target category in the format. Then, if a card appears broken they print a fixed version later and rotate that into the card pool while rotating the old one out. Meanwhile casual players who want some kind of loose format to officially adhere to can stick with commander and some variation of modern. That way they have an entry eternal format that truly is an eternal format they can throw around on the Pro-tour grounds and leave the entire non-rotating format behind them as a casual format for people to play with old cards.
It's interesting you say this, because I, and a number of other people whose posts I have read, have advocated what Magic Duels has done. In that game, not all the cards from the recent sets are available, and you have deckbuilding restrictions based on the number of copies of the same non-basic land card (4 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare, 1 mythic). If Wizards adopts that particular deckbuilding rule for paper cards, it would shake up the secondary market somewhat and cause people to learn new decks to build, although I concede that could cause some players to leave the game.
Magic Duels is one of Wizards experiments in how to improve the deck building experience in Magic. One of the main issues new players struggle with is building their first deck and they've been trying to do this by marking cards via themes. In kaladesh they are really pushing this even more so than they have prior by making planeswalkers that depend far more on synergy to operate.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What competitive players really want is more like a cube format that doesn't rotate and has a managed card pool even if the fanbase on this site would completely disagree. Basically it would be like a standard block where they control the power of the set by keeping only specific cards of a target category in the format. Then, if a card appears broken they print a fixed version later and rotate that into the card pool while rotating the old one out. Meanwhile casual players who want some kind of loose format to officially adhere to can stick with commander and some variation of modern. That way they have an entry eternal format that truly is an eternal format they can throw around on the Pro-tour grounds and leave the entire non-rotating format behind them as a casual format for people to play with old cards.
It's interesting you say this, because I, and a number of other people whose posts I have read, have advocated what Magic Duels has done. In that game, not all the cards from the recent sets are available, and you have deckbuilding restrictions based on the number of copies of the same non-basic land card (4 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare, 1 mythic). If Wizards adopts that particular deckbuilding rule for paper cards, it would shake up the secondary market somewhat and cause people to learn new decks to build, although I concede that could cause some players to leave the game.
I think i would quit magic. I actually play Magic Duels, mainly because family and job leaves too little time to go to a lgs during opening hours. But that format is less about skill, and much more about luck. First, because you cant build redundant decks, causing it to whoever finds their spoilers first wins. Second, if the only good answers are are allowed only 2 times in your deck, you will lose a lot of games just because you didnt draw your sweeper, removal, or key card for your very deck.
While i like that play style sometimes (i do also play commander), for comepetive play its absolute nonsense.
As someone who is into game design, this is complete non-sense. You can't simply take the Magic Duels template and use it on the existing card base because Wizards doesn't design the card base around this concept right now. They could, but the game would change drastically and render many, if not most, current deck strategies unplayable.
To make duels work, they'd have to make Mythics specialty cards, or simply a more powerful version of a rare card that can effectively work as a fifth copy. Then they design the rares of the set to match up with the mythics along with creating high powered support cards. Uncommons and commons then become the more generalized tools that are meant to slot into the decks to finally flesh them out.
The current design of magic is based almost entirely on power and prestige. Planeswalkers are mythic because they are iconic to a set and extremely versatile. Key story cards like the Heart of Kiran are mythic because they are what embody the story of the set in some way. Moments in the story are then characterized in the rare to common slots since more people will read and see them, which give context to the mythics and make casual players want to chase those cards. In the meantime, they also make the Mythics more powerful so that competitive players chase after the cards.
So in a nutshell, they aren't designing the game around making it the most playable thing in the planet. They are more so designing it around how can we make a playable game that people will rush around trying to grab every card in sight even if it isn't going into their current deck.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What competitive players really want is more like a cube format that doesn't rotate and has a managed card pool even if the fanbase on this site would completely disagree. Basically it would be like a standard block where they control the power of the set by keeping only specific cards of a target category in the format. Then, if a card appears broken they print a fixed version later and rotate that into the card pool while rotating the old one out. Meanwhile casual players who want some kind of loose format to officially adhere to can stick with commander and some variation of modern. That way they have an entry eternal format that truly is an eternal format they can throw around on the Pro-tour grounds and leave the entire non-rotating format behind them as a casual format for people to play with old cards.
It's interesting you say this, because I, and a number of other people whose posts I have read, have advocated what Magic Duels has done. In that game, not all the cards from the recent sets are available, and you have deckbuilding restrictions based on the number of copies of the same non-basic land card (4 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare, 1 mythic). If Wizards adopts that particular deckbuilding rule for paper cards, it would shake up the secondary market somewhat and cause people to learn new decks to build, although I concede that could cause some players to leave the game.
I think i would quit magic. I actually play Magic Duels, mainly because family and job leaves too little time to go to a lgs during opening hours. But that format is less about skill, and much more about luck. First, because you cant build redundant decks, causing it to whoever finds their spoilers first wins. Second, if the only good answers are are allowed only 2 times in your deck, you will lose a lot of games just because you didnt draw your sweeper, removal, or key card for your very deck.
While i like that play style sometimes (i do also play commander), for comepetive play its absolute nonsense.
I have played Magic Duels, and I think a good part of "luck" is from the software's shuffling engine. It seems like I get too much land or not enough land in the opening hand, even if I build a deck with what most players consider a decent proportion of lands in the deck.
Other than that, the card restrictions actually encourage ever greater skills in deck building as you cannot rely on multiple copies of the same card to form the backbone of your strategy. Players simply need to build different decks. I cannot agree that the Magic Duels has no skill.
To Colt47's point, this would invalidate a lot of existing decks, because it is a drastic change, but it would simply open up new decks.
What competitive players really want is more like a cube format that doesn't rotate and has a managed card pool even if the fanbase on this site would completely disagree. Basically it would be like a standard block where they control the power of the set by keeping only specific cards of a target category in the format. Then, if a card appears broken they print a fixed version later and rotate that into the card pool while rotating the old one out. Meanwhile casual players who want some kind of loose format to officially adhere to can stick with commander and some variation of modern. That way they have an entry eternal format that truly is an eternal format they can throw around on the Pro-tour grounds and leave the entire non-rotating format behind them as a casual format for people to play with old cards.
It's interesting you say this, because I, and a number of other people whose posts I have read, have advocated what Magic Duels has done. In that game, not all the cards from the recent sets are available, and you have deckbuilding restrictions based on the number of copies of the same non-basic land card (4 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare, 1 mythic). If Wizards adopts that particular deckbuilding rule for paper cards, it would shake up the secondary market somewhat and cause people to learn new decks to build, although I concede that could cause some players to leave the game.
I think i would quit magic. I actually play Magic Duels, mainly because family and job leaves too little time to go to a lgs during opening hours. But that format is less about skill, and much more about luck. First, because you cant build redundant decks, causing it to whoever finds their spoilers first wins. Second, if the only good answers are are allowed only 2 times in your deck, you will lose a lot of games just because you didnt draw your sweeper, removal, or key card for your very deck.
While i like that play style sometimes (i do also play commander), for comepetive play its absolute nonsense.
I have played Magic Duels, and I think a good part of "luck" is from the software's shuffling engine. It seems like I get too much land or not enough land in the opening hand, even if I build a deck with what most players consider a decent proportion of lands in the deck.
Other than that, the card restrictions actually encourage ever greater skills in deck building as you cannot rely on multiple copies of the same card to form the backbone of your strategy. Players simply need to build different decks. I cannot agree that the Magic Duels has no skill.
To Colt47's point, this would invalidate a lot of existing decks, because it is a drastic change, but it would simply open up new decks.
Again, I think the idea they had in duels is good, just that we're talking about a corporation with the speed of molasses and by the numbers market awareness, which basically means they are stuck playing a reactionary game instead of being innovative. They'd never get that design into the paper version until at least 5 years after the point it's relevant.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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More like "will it generate more interest in frontier?" than if they will mirror the bannings or not. I doubt the ban list will be the same if they even bother to go that far as the format does need it's powerful cards first before anyone can be the judge of what needs to go. Also, Wizards is still trying to find ways to keep interest going on their game. Sealed product was just not selling at the levels they wanted so this is them swooping in and trying to take on the appearance of being more hands on then they really are. Think about it: Wasn't collected company just as bad last season when Bant Coco was dominating? What about during Kahns block with Jeskai? The fact is the company just doesn't know what to do so they are trying everything they can to get things rolling again, and I finally think that wizards might have hit the right buttons with this one.
You're bringing up points that we already discussed to death, though. It doesn't matter because at this point in time for the next year and a half or more, frontier is still going to be in a better position than modern on a pricing front. Not to mention we still don't know what format MTG Digital Next is going to bring with it, because it likely isn't going to be supporting the full modern library. They will have to pick a starting point somewhere and it will likely mirror at least in part what Frontier is right now.
I can't help but feel you may be missing the entire point of Frontier here. No one cares that it is going to face the same problems modern currently faces if it endures. What people care about is that it is an escape from many bad archetypes that plague modern that people can't get away from and it provides an expanding card pool that is more of the recent design space. There is the possibility this may change. There is the possibility it may change soon or it may change in 3 years. What matters is right now.
I'm sorry you have such a negative opinion of the format and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise or change your ways. You found what you like to play in magic and to some degree you see other new formats that may exacerbate a problem the format you enjoy is having. In the end the right answer is to play the format that best meets your expectations, and I along with a growing number of players if the xmage community is anything to go by, like frontier.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. Will it generate more interest, I guess it could, but I'm not sure its a good thing. The Frontier card pool isnt exactly 'answer heavy' either. So if those cards do not get banned they will drive the format (like Dig/Cruise will as well).
2. Do you have sources for this claim that product isnt moving? Constructed doesnt drive Wizards like Limited, they claim that every other week. I dont think they are throwing ***** at the wall to see what will stick. I think they rightly looked at their Constructed Standard format, saw that they screwed up and threats are far greater than answers, and so had to do something about it.
3. If Digital Next doesnt include Modern off the hop, I would imagine it will be Standard block at that time OR will start at Origins. Khans is out of line with 'Frontier' level cards. Delve alone is busted, and I think 'Frontier' will end up banning it. Its honestly a mistake to even start at M15, they should have started at Origins.
4. I dont have a negative view on Frontier. I'm not sure why you would think that unless criticism of the format = dont like it. I read/played/built/tested for a few days with the card pool, and its fine for what it is.
I dont think its going to pull Modern players away in the short term or long term, and I think Wizards likely sees the problems with Modern and either has a plan for their own 'Frontier', or they dont care, and it will (sadly) implode under the recent design and (lack of) test paradigm. Frontier or whatever comes next from Wizards isnt causing problems for Modern. Wizards, is causing problems for Magic and if they dont smarten up, no format other than Limited and Legacy, will survive because Wizards continues to think that creatures are they key to the game, and answers do not generally come in the form of 'just better creatures' without consequence.
Spirits
I'm probably misunderstanding the context since there's no face to face when we do these things on a message board. We got Emoticons, but I think we barely use them these days.
Yeah, product isn't moving as much as it used to. Box prices of sealed product are at a historic low, even on sets going out of print like Oath of the Gatewatch. SoI block was kind of a speed bump as well despite the set being rather good, though in that case it's probably because of BFZ having expeditions and Kalidesh having inventions, along with being in such close proximity to Eternal Masters. Poor conspiracy 2 got jammed in there as well and I swear that set deserves more draft time. Actually, the most recent standard booster boxes and commander 2016 are the only products actually selling well as just about all the side products are languishing, and for some reason WoTC cut the print run on Commander 2016. I have no idea why someone would cut the print run on something that is actually selling vs cutting it on Planechase Anthologies or the Planeswalker decks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I didn't expect that walker to follow the trajectory of Jace.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I wonder if Ugin speculation is being driven by the idea that Tron is going to become potentially tier .5 with the nerfs in Modern.
I'm not sure I buy it, but thats some of the discussion.
Spirits
If the goal is to align with more 'modern' design choices, then that may still be valid. I would start at Origins then, but thats just one opinion.
If the goal is to provide a different experience, then you'll get that certainly, regardless of any other goal success or failure.
However cost was never going to stay down, its nonsensical to believe it could.
Spirits
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
It's pathetic how this game is ruined by people who should be putting their money elsewhere, like the stock market. Then again, I expect nothing from people because people are stupid.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Spirits
Because they want a lower powered format.
Because they want a slower format.
Because they dont have modern staples, and may have a 'Standard' deck that is no longer valid.
There are plenty of reasons. Cost however, should never have been the primary reason because any critical thinking about the format would have come to the conclusion that prices will rise. :]
Spirits
That describes Pauper which also provides a very low price wall and high supply.
I believe the format is healthy. Looking at deck techs, one can see that the field is actually far more diverse than CoCo/Abzan, regardless of what people might be saying in the thread--there's Temur Flash, Ensoul, and weirder brews messing about. Some recent tourney-winners include rogue brews like Mardu Dragons and Esper Dragons.
Card prices are low. I recommend giving the format a shot, even if you just want a second go at some of the really fun staples that never made a splash in their original Standard meta and couldn't transfer over to Modern.
imo the most important card in the format right now is Dig. Best thing that Wizards could do for the format is pick it up and choose specifically not to ban dig/cruise in order to draw a playerbase in.
They will forever get better as the card pool expands.
Spirits
Given we just got combo from Kaladesh, I'd actually be surprised if we don't see another oddball deck appear later out of sheer happenstance. Prison might be hard to come by, though. One of the deck types wizards has moved away from was prison since it was not very popular with players.
Also, I agree that Dig is one of the most likely targets for a ban if they ever do create a ban list for the format. Treasure cruise could end up staying, though. Really, Dig through Time and Collected Company are both equally bad cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
It's interesting you say this, because I, and a number of other people whose posts I have read, have advocated what Magic Duels has done. In that game, not all the cards from the recent sets are available, and you have deckbuilding restrictions based on the number of copies of the same non-basic land card (4 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare, 1 mythic). If Wizards adopts that particular deckbuilding rule for paper cards, it would shake up the secondary market somewhat and cause people to learn new decks to build, although I concede that could cause some players to leave the game.
Magic Duels is one of Wizards experiments in how to improve the deck building experience in Magic. One of the main issues new players struggle with is building their first deck and they've been trying to do this by marking cards via themes. In kaladesh they are really pushing this even more so than they have prior by making planeswalkers that depend far more on synergy to operate.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As someone who is into game design, this is complete non-sense. You can't simply take the Magic Duels template and use it on the existing card base because Wizards doesn't design the card base around this concept right now. They could, but the game would change drastically and render many, if not most, current deck strategies unplayable.
To make duels work, they'd have to make Mythics specialty cards, or simply a more powerful version of a rare card that can effectively work as a fifth copy. Then they design the rares of the set to match up with the mythics along with creating high powered support cards. Uncommons and commons then become the more generalized tools that are meant to slot into the decks to finally flesh them out.
The current design of magic is based almost entirely on power and prestige. Planeswalkers are mythic because they are iconic to a set and extremely versatile. Key story cards like the Heart of Kiran are mythic because they are what embody the story of the set in some way. Moments in the story are then characterized in the rare to common slots since more people will read and see them, which give context to the mythics and make casual players want to chase those cards. In the meantime, they also make the Mythics more powerful so that competitive players chase after the cards.
So in a nutshell, they aren't designing the game around making it the most playable thing in the planet. They are more so designing it around how can we make a playable game that people will rush around trying to grab every card in sight even if it isn't going into their current deck.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I have played Magic Duels, and I think a good part of "luck" is from the software's shuffling engine. It seems like I get too much land or not enough land in the opening hand, even if I build a deck with what most players consider a decent proportion of lands in the deck.
Other than that, the card restrictions actually encourage ever greater skills in deck building as you cannot rely on multiple copies of the same card to form the backbone of your strategy. Players simply need to build different decks. I cannot agree that the Magic Duels has no skill.
To Colt47's point, this would invalidate a lot of existing decks, because it is a drastic change, but it would simply open up new decks.
Again, I think the idea they had in duels is good, just that we're talking about a corporation with the speed of molasses and by the numbers market awareness, which basically means they are stuck playing a reactionary game instead of being innovative. They'd never get that design into the paper version until at least 5 years after the point it's relevant.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!