Yeah I'm really frustrated with the mana, the power level isnt horrible, but the mana makes me pull my hair out.
I see what you are saying (but I'm a twin ex-pat so maybe I'm biased) as I do think the Twin ban did major damage to the format. I guess I just think its easier to fix than you and others may.
Unban Twin and SFM.
Ban a piece from Dredge.
The format will, with Push, fix itself overnight.
Modern Masters needs to then be FAR more aggressive in its reprints of staples, and we would enter a golden age of Magic.
The problem with Modern Masters isn't that it isn't printing enough staples, but that it's handicapped by the MSRP, which is limiting the number of packs being opened. Drafting is the primary means modern masters sets get cards into the secondary market next to singles sellers and it's just really hard to convince people to drop 30 usd on 3 packs for one draft when they can do the same for way less from Conspiracy 2 or the current standard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This format is much much better than Modern is right now and better than Standard as it is now. I've really enjoyed playing the last few weeks and will continue to play.
Yeah I'm really frustrated with the mana, the power level isnt horrible, but the mana makes me pull my hair out.
I see what you are saying (but I'm a twin ex-pat so maybe I'm biased) as I do think the Twin ban did major damage to the format. I guess I just think its easier to fix than you and others may.
Unban Twin and SFM.
Ban a piece from Dredge.
The format will, with Push, fix itself overnight.
Modern Masters needs to then be FAR more aggressive in its reprints of staples, and we would enter a golden age of Magic.
The problem with Modern Masters isn't that it isn't printing enough staples, but that it's handicapped by the MSRP, which is limiting the number of packs being opened. Drafting is the primary means modern masters sets get cards into the secondary market next to singles sellers and it's just really hard to convince people to drop 30 usd on 3 packs for one draft when they can do the same for way less from Conspiracy 2 or the current standard.
I can agree here, if they filled it with value I may be OK with the price..but no MM set has blown my mind.
I disagree, new cards introduce new decks to the top with little (no) effort to do so on Wizards part.
It simply takes a release to encourage new exploration and decks with as little as 1 or 2 cards 'breaking' a deck wide open.
Dredge is what it is now because of a few sets releases breaking it open.
Eldrazi came out of 1 block leveraging existing Modern cards.
Infect went from fringe to Tier 1 on the back of a few cards.
Lantern is a brew from this very forum.
8-whack came out of 1 new card, and 1 reprint in Origins.
So, I guess I will just have to disagree. When you have thousands of options, it doesnt take much investigation to see that a card here or there can break open a deck. Saddly, I dont have a witty latin phrase to throw out, so we will have to just agree to disagree.
That and my own opinion after playing it and seeing how diverse the opinions are in the US on the format is that the other countries need to expand or add cards to it to let in the kind of decks people want to play. If someone has a favorite pet card they want to try they should let it in to try it out. The ultimate thing that people seem to have never tried doing in Magic is "build" a format. Not just declare one, but cultivate one that fits the community playing magic. It's what the game needs right now more than anything else and WoTC along with Hareyuya are ill suited to meet those demands. When people take command of a format and control the cards being played, it creates a meta-game that is far more dynamic and interesting than just putting everything into a blender and hoping what you get out is what you really want. There really is a format out there that can handle Birthing Pod, Splinter Twin, GOOD control, and even some aggro and mid-range. The community just needs to come together to actually work on building it.
Modern
Commander is the only "built" community format that I'm aware of. It's a rousing success. I agree with your statement here.
I keep hearing the same arguments here. I think the posts predicting another eternal format eventually running into same problems as Modern are spot on. It seems to me the answer is not another eternal format but rather a (large) rotating format.
I know Extended has been bashed anytime it's brought up. It was losing popularity and people were eager to move to Modern. Perhaps now that we know all the pros and cons of Modern, Extended deserves another shot.
To anyone still skeptical I ask you to consider the following:
1. For any shortcoming expressed about Modern, I argue that Frontier would eventually run into the same issue.
2. For any feature that draws people to Frontier, I argue that Extended also possesses similar positive attributes.
Well, basically the part of the entire deal is that Wizards can't keep up print runs of every card they print and people didn't like the broad sweeps that resulted from extended rotations. The real answer is probably just to use modern masters to keep cards the company wants legal and just make any card not reprinted within a 5 year time span no longer legal in modern. The only reason cards get expensive in modern is that they are not printed enough and the demand is too high. If the card never gets a reprint and climbs too high in price just let it go and move on.
But that's likely how whatever new eternal format Wizards comes up with will work anyway. If they use modern as a card base then it would allow modern players to play whatever got printed in the last 5 years or so, including cards that got reprints in modern masters. As for Frontier, I think it's a safe buy in and will get enough support to take off on it's own. The cards in the format are cheap enough that printing them in commander products and other supplementary products wont be as problematic, as long as wizards of the coast does so early on and keeps up the pace. If they let it go like they did with modern we'll eventually run into the same issues modern has and have to go through this entire cycle all over again.
Wasn't that just Extended though? A non-rotating format is just that, a non-rotating format.
It would be similar to extended, but the format would definitely have a different texture as a result of having the Modern Masters feeding into it since the what gets a card printed in Modern Masters is very different from what can get a card reprinted in a Standard legal set.
On the subject of a formats health being dictated by how many new strategies emerge in it with each new set. The reality is that there are only a few real strategies in Magic and what you probably are referring to is finding a deck that carries a theme. Right now the issue modern has is that of the strategies the game is capable of, wizards has all but killed probably two of them in their complete ignorance of the format for about 3 years or more. Someone either plays some variation of an aggressive archetype or they play what little combo there is left, such as Ad Nauseum. The format is too fast for the place where most of the interesting interactions happen and ultimately that is what kills the game of magic.
On the subject of splinter twin: No I don't think it was a bad idea to try and ban it, but I do think that banning it served to show that the format has grown too heavily dependant on hyper efficient cards to win with minimal interaction. This probably should have been expected by the development team, but at the time they brought about Modern they were more concerned about appeasing a fan base than if the idea was actually going to work out. That's why they basically throw their hands up when the subject of modern comes up at any kind of realistic discussion and also the reason they really make Modern Masters about drafting and not about reprinting needed cards all the time. For us, Modern Masters is a relief valve on the secondary market prices. To wizards, it's a PR stunt.
What competitive players really want is more like a cube format that doesn't rotate and has a managed card pool even if the fanbase on this site would completely disagree. Basically it would be like a standard block where they control the power of the set by keeping only specific cards of a target category in the format. Then, if a card appears broken they print a fixed version later and rotate that into the card pool while rotating the old one out. Meanwhile casual players who want some kind of loose format to officially adhere to can stick with commander and some variation of modern. That way they have an entry eternal format that truly is an eternal format they can throw around on the Pro-tour grounds and leave the entire non-rotating format behind them as a casual format for people to play with old cards.
The problem we've got is that we have a casual kitchen table format called Modern that people like to play because it has all the cards they love legal in it and they expect to be able to take this casual format to FNM night to prove themselves against other players and win prizes. Modern is not League of Legends level balanced and tweaked. It has zero capability of being a fair competitive format. Going to FNM to win packs and think you actually win because of skill and practice is ludicrous because the power cards are known for each strategy and only a few people actually own the needed cards who play at FNM. People can adjust a deck to be good against a specific deck, but it doesn't really change the win ratio all that much if you have to deal with other wildly different decks at the tournament that play an aggressive strategy, but do so from another vector. It's this fact that dooms about 90% of all modern budget decks.
Frontier is similar to modern, but it's able to dodge some of moderns short comings for the time being and that is enough reason for many people to actually get into the format right now. That and zero chance of wizards ever forcing a ban list on the format. Even if they ban Saheeli Rai in Standard and modern, she will be available in Frontier and be the first piece for a possible return of a "splinter twin" deck.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They didnt ban twin to appease the fan base, they banned twin because they wanted to shake up the pro tour, and the backlash from that from plebs and pro's alike, lead to the cancellation of the pro tour so wizards wouldnt have to take the heat for wanting to push their product on the format.
If there are best cards, yes they will get played. I dont really care if Shock being the best burn spell would make for a different format, because its not the format I want. I want Bolt. I want creatures that have to deal with Bolt, and I want a deck that gets there via bolt.
Just like I want to see stasis decks exist (Taking Turns and Lantern fit that ok)
Just like I want to see control decks exist (UWR, UB, Grixis)
Just like I want to see midrange decks exist (GBx, maybe Mardu?)
The format itself does not need revolutionary strategies being inserted every 6 months, not even every year, and the Eldrazi mistake was...not something that helped the format. I would argue the Delve cards revitalized the format, they where just on the strong side for the blue ones, so had to go.
Are there new strategies every year introduced to Chess?
So, I've been keeping en eye on Frontier decks and their prices since I got back into Magic about a month ago. The decks and "staples" are spiking hard; This is normal, but the allure of this format was it's accessibility. I'm not opposed to a format gaining traction (having sold off one of the most complete standard collections in August, I got back a good amount but am slightly pissed this format came out a mere 2 weeks after I cashed out), but modern does gain quite a bit from new sets. We can't get tunneled visioned into thinking that new sets do not do enough to change the modern meta-game. Case in point:
Eldrazi (bant/tron variants)
U/R Suicide Bloo
Infect upgrades
Jeskai Nahiri
Tron upgrades
Dredge became playable
Collected Company ported itself into modern
basically the entire Temur/Become immense combo (which became a thing in standard first via R/G Landfall).
Aether Revolt is about to change modern yet again, as one of it's uncommons looks to level the playing field for B/x decks. The set has some serious power, and looks to give modern some much needed answers vs linear decks. I'll be looking to build bant eldrazi (i think it's a safe investment and a hell of a deck) in modern and then port it into Legacy (yes I'm one of those evil players that loves broken stompy decks that allow me to play T2 Reality Smashers ).
Frontier's allure should be in how it promotes interactivity, it should be the foramt that highlights WOTC new game play philosophies (like standard)and allows for recently rotated cards/deck to port into an eternal format that allows them to exist. Let's face it, some decks are never going to good in modern, and you either build a Tier 1-3 deck, or you try and tweak your pet deck to be viable (sometimes the support just isn't there).
Costs, for an extra few 100 bucks I can buy into a decent modern deck, and in time Frontier will costs will get out of accessibility range for players looking to get into it. That's going to happen, if it takes off.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
They didnt ban twin to appease the fan base, they banned twin because they wanted to shake up the pro tour, and the backlash from that from plebs and pro's alike, lead to the cancellation of the pro tour so wizards wouldnt have to take the heat for wanting to push their product on the format.
If there are best cards, yes they will get played. I dont really care if Shock being the best burn spell would make for a different format, because its not the format I want. I want Bolt. I want creatures that have to deal with Bolt, and I want a deck that gets there via bolt.
Just like I want to see stasis decks exist (Taking Turns and Lantern fit that ok)
Just like I want to see control decks exist (UWR, UB, Grixis)
Just like I want to see midrange decks exist (GBx, maybe Mardu?)
The format itself does not need revolutionary strategies being inserted every 6 months, not even every year, and the Eldrazi mistake was...not something that helped the format. I would argue the Delve cards revitalized the format, they where just on the strong side for the blue ones, so had to go.
Are there new strategies every year introduced to Chess?
Yeah, I said in my post the twin ban wasn't done for the fan base as much as seeing what would happen from it. To be frank, I'm fairly convinced wizards doesn't like any non-rotating format given how horribly they treat that market. The best thing they've done for it was for commander.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So, I've been keeping en eye on Frontier decks and their prices since I got back into Magic about a month ago. The decks and "staples" are spiking hard; This is normal, but the allure of this format was it's accessibility. I'm not opposed to a format gaining traction (having sold off one of the most complete standard collections in August, I got back a good amount but am slightly pissed this format came out a mere 2 weeks after I cashed out), but modern does gain quite a bit from new sets. We can't get tunneled visioned into thinking that new sets do not do enough to change the modern meta-game. Case in point:
Eldrazi (bant/tron variants)
U/R Suicide Bloo
Infect upgrades
Jeskai Nahiri
Tron upgrades
Dredge became playable
Collected Company ported itself into modern
basically the entire Temur/Become immense combo (which became a thing in standard first via R/G Landfall).
Aether Revolt is about to change modern yet again, as one of it's uncommons looks to level the playing field for B/x decks. The set has some serious power, and looks to give modern some much needed answers vs linear decks. I'll be looking to build bant eldrazi (i think it's a safe investment and a hell of a deck) in modern and then port it into Legacy (yes I'm one of those evil players that loves broken stompy decks that allow me to play T2 Reality Smashers ).
Frontier's allure should be in how it promotes interactivity, it should be the foramt that highlights WOTC new game play philosophies (like standard)and allows for recently rotated cards/deck to port into an eternal format that allows them to exist. Let's face it, some decks are never going to good in modern, and you either build a Tier 1-3 deck, or you try and tweak your pet deck to be viable (sometimes the support just isn't there).
Costs, for an extra few 100 bucks I can buy into a decent modern deck, and in time Frontier will costs will get out of accessibility range for players looking to get into it. That's going to happen, if it takes off.
The problem with prices is not a problem of Frontier: It's a problem of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Any set that poorly opened should probably be banned from a format just because there's no where near enough supply of the cards and it includes a card type that is notorious for being a print run disaster. 90% of the decks in frontier are very budget, like BG elves, goblins, Dragon Bros, certain builds of abzan, etc. The problem colors are Blue and any combination thereof. Lets be frank here, when has blue been cheap in modern outside of merfolk? Nearly every card printed for blue that is halfway good gets priced to hell because sellers are scared of losing money and blue barely gets any obviously good spells outside of card draw. Blue is dying for a new Cryptic Command or Vendilion Clique in modern and Snapcaster Mage added another digit to the hundreds for deck construction using blue.
Also, highly recommend you cross reference those prices with what is in standard right now. The price for frontier will actually DROP once rotation hits because it overlaps the standard format so much. Of the top cards in price, Liliana, Heretical Healer is fighting with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Think about that: Which would you rather have? The rotated dragon god that happens to bolt people, or a 3 mana toolbox walker? Not to mention Saheeli Rai spiked because complete idiots in the secondary market who seem to have zero professional experience believe the next splinter twin has arrived. I actually traded out of her since her price is going to flat-line back to probably 9 usd or 8 usd once they realize the combo is easily hated out, or wizards decides it's a DRS mistake and bans it coming march. Sorry Saheeli, Ugin likes his binder space.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Snap's is actually down to 40's I see, and likely hits next Modern Masters, but yes anything UR is expensive, its annoying but such is life. I really had hoped we would see a drop on some of those staples once people saw Twin die, but nope.
Saheeli I think will stick around, I dont know why her price would drop (or any Standard Staple) if Frontier becomes a thing. More demand wont lower prices.
EDIT: If anything, the large vendors will just keep her price high. I swear after just a few days I have already noticed non-modern 'frontier' speculative cards rise in cost. Saheeli will remain that way too, Jace rose $20 in the last 2.5 weeks.
Just the way of Magic for eternal formats, get them in Standard, or the cost will rise...
Are there new strategies every year introduced to Chess?
How many new pieces have they added to Chess in its entire existance?
And contrary to what the other poster stated about Chess having new strategies every 5-10 years is wrong also. There just stratagies most people forget/didn't know already existed. Chess/Go have been around for so long with no change to how the game is played you can't find a true new stratagy because everything has already been discovered by pervious generation playing all the stratagies.
The difference with eternal formats is that new peices get introduced. Sure not all of them shake up the eternal formats but new innovation is introduced.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Snap's is actually down to 40's I see, and likely hits next Modern Masters, but yes anything UR is expensive, its annoying but such is life. I really had hoped we would see a drop on some of those staples once people saw Twin die, but nope.
Saheeli I think will stick around, I dont know why her price would drop (or any Standard Staple) if Frontier becomes a thing. More demand wont lower prices.
EDIT: If anything, the large vendors will just keep her price high. I swear after just a few days I have already noticed non-modern 'frontier' speculative cards rise in cost. Saheeli will remain that way too, Jace rose $20 in the last 2.5 weeks.
Just the way of Magic for eternal formats, get them in Standard, or the cost will rise...
Her price is never going to be 5 usd again, but her combo ability is rather easy to stop after seeing it in play and depending on drawing one of both 4 of cards in a deck to pull off an infinite combo seems highly unreliable. It's the same kind of problem that Aetherworks Marvel ran into. Once there is copies 5-8 that can do something like what Saheeli is doing, the deck may be plausible. It's just that people are getting excited for her over a lot of nothing. She can blow someone out if they aren't expecting it, but given the price on TCG player and all the news flying around the cat is well out of the bag. Someone who has played twin can probably back me up on this as twin players are the ones who got me into trying a few brews with her to see what they mean. Splinter Twin is on an entirely different level and the deck doesn't depend on that one card to work. It usually had ways to win without the combo and the enchantment itself could be placed on any ETB creature. Playing that card with Reflector Mage was just crazy. It was like playing a jugglers game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard (and Frontier) also have garbage cantrips and digs. In Modern, it was actually quite easy to assemble Twin, and most (I believe) only ran 6 creatures + 4 Twin, but that was with Serum and Remand helping to dig through cards a bit.
EDIT: And yes, the tempo game or turning the corner and just pinging with Bolt, Electrolyze, and Snaps was often enough to get you there. It was a beautiful thing, and sadly I think its gone forever...
Kind of curious to see how the b&r announcement hits this format.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Kind of curious to see how the b&r announcement hits this format.
Are they going to just mirror the bans in Standard?
I dont know if you are following the Modern thread discussion on this, but these bans are just a symptom of the issue's Wizards has in design and test right now. This format if it becomes a thing, will face all the same issues. Pushed creatures, little way to handle them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UW Spirits
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The problem with Modern Masters isn't that it isn't printing enough staples, but that it's handicapped by the MSRP, which is limiting the number of packs being opened. Drafting is the primary means modern masters sets get cards into the secondary market next to singles sellers and it's just really hard to convince people to drop 30 usd on 3 packs for one draft when they can do the same for way less from Conspiracy 2 or the current standard.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I can agree here, if they filled it with value I may be OK with the price..but no MM set has blown my mind.
Spirits
It simply takes a release to encourage new exploration and decks with as little as 1 or 2 cards 'breaking' a deck wide open.
Dredge is what it is now because of a few sets releases breaking it open.
Eldrazi came out of 1 block leveraging existing Modern cards.
Infect went from fringe to Tier 1 on the back of a few cards.
Lantern is a brew from this very forum.
8-whack came out of 1 new card, and 1 reprint in Origins.
So, I guess I will just have to disagree. When you have thousands of options, it doesnt take much investigation to see that a card here or there can break open a deck. Saddly, I dont have a witty latin phrase to throw out, so we will have to just agree to disagree.
Spirits
Commander is the only "built" community format that I'm aware of. It's a rousing success. I agree with your statement here.
It would be similar to extended, but the format would definitely have a different texture as a result of having the Modern Masters feeding into it since the what gets a card printed in Modern Masters is very different from what can get a card reprinted in a Standard legal set.
On the subject of splinter twin: No I don't think it was a bad idea to try and ban it, but I do think that banning it served to show that the format has grown too heavily dependant on hyper efficient cards to win with minimal interaction. This probably should have been expected by the development team, but at the time they brought about Modern they were more concerned about appeasing a fan base than if the idea was actually going to work out. That's why they basically throw their hands up when the subject of modern comes up at any kind of realistic discussion and also the reason they really make Modern Masters about drafting and not about reprinting needed cards all the time. For us, Modern Masters is a relief valve on the secondary market prices. To wizards, it's a PR stunt.
What competitive players really want is more like a cube format that doesn't rotate and has a managed card pool even if the fanbase on this site would completely disagree. Basically it would be like a standard block where they control the power of the set by keeping only specific cards of a target category in the format. Then, if a card appears broken they print a fixed version later and rotate that into the card pool while rotating the old one out. Meanwhile casual players who want some kind of loose format to officially adhere to can stick with commander and some variation of modern. That way they have an entry eternal format that truly is an eternal format they can throw around on the Pro-tour grounds and leave the entire non-rotating format behind them as a casual format for people to play with old cards.
The problem we've got is that we have a casual kitchen table format called Modern that people like to play because it has all the cards they love legal in it and they expect to be able to take this casual format to FNM night to prove themselves against other players and win prizes. Modern is not League of Legends level balanced and tweaked. It has zero capability of being a fair competitive format. Going to FNM to win packs and think you actually win because of skill and practice is ludicrous because the power cards are known for each strategy and only a few people actually own the needed cards who play at FNM. People can adjust a deck to be good against a specific deck, but it doesn't really change the win ratio all that much if you have to deal with other wildly different decks at the tournament that play an aggressive strategy, but do so from another vector. It's this fact that dooms about 90% of all modern budget decks.
Frontier is similar to modern, but it's able to dodge some of moderns short comings for the time being and that is enough reason for many people to actually get into the format right now. That and zero chance of wizards ever forcing a ban list on the format. Even if they ban Saheeli Rai in Standard and modern, she will be available in Frontier and be the first piece for a possible return of a "splinter twin" deck.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If there are best cards, yes they will get played. I dont really care if Shock being the best burn spell would make for a different format, because its not the format I want. I want Bolt. I want creatures that have to deal with Bolt, and I want a deck that gets there via bolt.
Just like I want to see stasis decks exist (Taking Turns and Lantern fit that ok)
Just like I want to see control decks exist (UWR, UB, Grixis)
Just like I want to see midrange decks exist (GBx, maybe Mardu?)
The format itself does not need revolutionary strategies being inserted every 6 months, not even every year, and the Eldrazi mistake was...not something that helped the format. I would argue the Delve cards revitalized the format, they where just on the strong side for the blue ones, so had to go.
Are there new strategies every year introduced to Chess?
Spirits
Eldrazi (bant/tron variants)
U/R Suicide Bloo
Infect upgrades
Jeskai Nahiri
Tron upgrades
Dredge became playable
Collected Company ported itself into modern
basically the entire Temur/Become immense combo (which became a thing in standard first via R/G Landfall).
Aether Revolt is about to change modern yet again, as one of it's uncommons looks to level the playing field for B/x decks. The set has some serious power, and looks to give modern some much needed answers vs linear decks. I'll be looking to build bant eldrazi (i think it's a safe investment and a hell of a deck) in modern and then port it into Legacy (yes I'm one of those evil players that loves broken stompy decks that allow me to play T2 Reality Smashers ).
Frontier's allure should be in how it promotes interactivity, it should be the foramt that highlights WOTC new game play philosophies (like standard)and allows for recently rotated cards/deck to port into an eternal format that allows them to exist. Let's face it, some decks are never going to good in modern, and you either build a Tier 1-3 deck, or you try and tweak your pet deck to be viable (sometimes the support just isn't there).
Costs, for an extra few 100 bucks I can buy into a decent modern deck, and in time Frontier will costs will get out of accessibility range for players looking to get into it. That's going to happen, if it takes off.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Yeah, I said in my post the twin ban wasn't done for the fan base as much as seeing what would happen from it. To be frank, I'm fairly convinced wizards doesn't like any non-rotating format given how horribly they treat that market. The best thing they've done for it was for commander.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The problem with prices is not a problem of Frontier: It's a problem of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Any set that poorly opened should probably be banned from a format just because there's no where near enough supply of the cards and it includes a card type that is notorious for being a print run disaster. 90% of the decks in frontier are very budget, like BG elves, goblins, Dragon Bros, certain builds of abzan, etc. The problem colors are Blue and any combination thereof. Lets be frank here, when has blue been cheap in modern outside of merfolk? Nearly every card printed for blue that is halfway good gets priced to hell because sellers are scared of losing money and blue barely gets any obviously good spells outside of card draw. Blue is dying for a new Cryptic Command or Vendilion Clique in modern and Snapcaster Mage added another digit to the hundreds for deck construction using blue.
Also, highly recommend you cross reference those prices with what is in standard right now. The price for frontier will actually DROP once rotation hits because it overlaps the standard format so much. Of the top cards in price, Liliana, Heretical Healer is fighting with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Think about that: Which would you rather have? The rotated dragon god that happens to bolt people, or a 3 mana toolbox walker? Not to mention Saheeli Rai spiked because complete idiots in the secondary market who seem to have zero professional experience believe the next splinter twin has arrived. I actually traded out of her since her price is going to flat-line back to probably 9 usd or 8 usd once they realize the combo is easily hated out, or wizards decides it's a DRS mistake and bans it coming march. Sorry Saheeli, Ugin likes his binder space.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Saheeli I think will stick around, I dont know why her price would drop (or any Standard Staple) if Frontier becomes a thing. More demand wont lower prices.
EDIT: If anything, the large vendors will just keep her price high. I swear after just a few days I have already noticed non-modern 'frontier' speculative cards rise in cost. Saheeli will remain that way too, Jace rose $20 in the last 2.5 weeks.
Just the way of Magic for eternal formats, get them in Standard, or the cost will rise...
Spirits
How many new pieces have they added to Chess in its entire existance?
And contrary to what the other poster stated about Chess having new strategies every 5-10 years is wrong also. There just stratagies most people forget/didn't know already existed. Chess/Go have been around for so long with no change to how the game is played you can't find a true new stratagy because everything has already been discovered by pervious generation playing all the stratagies.
The difference with eternal formats is that new peices get introduced. Sure not all of them shake up the eternal formats but new innovation is introduced.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Her price is never going to be 5 usd again, but her combo ability is rather easy to stop after seeing it in play and depending on drawing one of both 4 of cards in a deck to pull off an infinite combo seems highly unreliable. It's the same kind of problem that Aetherworks Marvel ran into. Once there is copies 5-8 that can do something like what Saheeli is doing, the deck may be plausible. It's just that people are getting excited for her over a lot of nothing. She can blow someone out if they aren't expecting it, but given the price on TCG player and all the news flying around the cat is well out of the bag. Someone who has played twin can probably back me up on this as twin players are the ones who got me into trying a few brews with her to see what they mean. Splinter Twin is on an entirely different level and the deck doesn't depend on that one card to work. It usually had ways to win without the combo and the enchantment itself could be placed on any ETB creature. Playing that card with Reflector Mage was just crazy. It was like playing a jugglers game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There is no way at all Dig Through Time or Treasure Cruise would stay legal if Frontier became a thing.
EDIT: And yes, the tempo game or turning the corner and just pinging with Bolt, Electrolyze, and Snaps was often enough to get you there. It was a beautiful thing, and sadly I think its gone forever...
Spirits
My 720 Peasant Cube
Spirits
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Are they going to just mirror the bans in Standard?
I dont know if you are following the Modern thread discussion on this, but these bans are just a symptom of the issue's Wizards has in design and test right now. This format if it becomes a thing, will face all the same issues. Pushed creatures, little way to handle them.
Spirits