I think the Magic accesories industry is running out of control. Hear me out first.
First you have inner perfect fit sleeve to protect your cards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6b0wADhC9s
Then you have the normal sleeve to protect the inner sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bu1h0gtu2U
Then, you have the outer sleeves to protect the normal sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRR3DiExdb8
Then, you have the play mat to protect the outer sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYLxnV68Uow
Then, you have the tube to protect the play mat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai6odqxTQGU
Are you kidding me? What's next the tube to protect the tube that protects the play mat that protects the outer sleeve that protect the normal sleeve that protect the inner sleeve? Protectception?
Please spare me the 'if you don't like it, don't buy it' or 'they want to protect their 1000dollar cards'. I understand card needs protection but to that extent???
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GMR21=OYS, I know you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
You understand how capitalism works, yes? If people didn't buy it then it would not continue to exist.
In addition to acting in a functional capacity, these items help you to tailor your aesthetic to your own personal tastes. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your hobby and wanting to be expressive.
I think the Magic accesories industry is running out of control. Hear me out first.
First you have inner perfect fit sleeve to protect your cards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6b0wADhC9s
Then you have the normal sleeve to protect the inner sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bu1h0gtu2U
Then, you have the outer sleeves to protect the normal sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRR3DiExdb8
Then, you have the play mat to protect the outer sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYLxnV68Uow
Then, you have the tube to protect the play mat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai6odqxTQGU
Are you kidding me? What's next the tube to protect the tube that protects the play mat that protects the outer sleeve that protect the normal sleeve that protect the inner sleeve? Protectception?
Please spare me the 'if you don't like it, don't buy it' or 'they want to protect their 1000dollar cards'. I understand card needs protection but to that extent???
Don't forget deck boxes and the boxes you use to carry said deck boxes.
It's also a matter of keeping the cards in the same condition as you recieved them. It's bad enough when a card drops in popularity or the Modern deck it was in got torn apart by bans, then you are also decreasing the value of your cards by not taking proper care of them.
Sleeves can also be very expensive, especially the ones with pictures and such, so is it so bad to keep them protected with cheaper sleeves that are easier to replace?
Play mats are the same way. What of the PTQ or Gameday mats that are near impossible to replace? Or maybe a custom made playmat? It's already going to wear out, eventually, just from you using it. Why not protect it while traveling or storing it?
MTG is already expensive enough, yes, but it's more expensive when you have to replace things on a regular basis becuase you aren't taking the care that you should.
I think the Magic accesories industry is running out of control. Hear me out first.
First you have inner perfect fit sleeve to protect your cards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6b0wADhC9s
Then you have the normal sleeve to protect the inner sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bu1h0gtu2U
Then, you have the outer sleeves to protect the normal sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRR3DiExdb8
Then, you have the play mat to protect the outer sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYLxnV68Uow
Then, you have the tube to protect the play mat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai6odqxTQGU
Are you kidding me? What's next the tube to protect the tube that protects the play mat that protects the outer sleeve that protect the normal sleeve that protect the inner sleeve? Protectception?
Please spare me the 'if you don't like it, don't buy it' or 'they want to protect their 1000dollar cards'. I understand card needs protection but to that extent???
Don't forget deck boxes and the boxes you use to carry said deck boxes.
It's also a matter of keeping the cards in the same condition as you recieved them. It's bad enough when a card drops in popularity or the Modern deck it was in got torn apart by bans, then you are also decreasing the value of your cards by not taking proper care of them.
Sleeves can also be very expensive, especially the ones with pictures and such, so is it so bad to keep them protected with cheaper sleeves that are easier to replace?
Play mats are the same way. What of the PTQ or Gameday mats that are near impossible to replace? Or maybe a custom made playmat? It's already going to wear out, eventually, just from you using it. Why not protect it while traveling or storing it?
MTG is already expensive enough, yes, but it's more expensive when you have to replace things on a regular basis becuase you aren't taking the care that you should.
Yes, oh goodness, how can I forget the deck boxes that protect the sleeves that protect the sleeves... that protect the cards?
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GMR21=OYS, I know you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
I double sleeve my cards because I don't want my collectibles ruined because someone can't follow the rules and keep drinks off the play area.
I play on a mat because it's easier to manage the cards, organize a cohesive board, protect my outer sleeves from collecting so much dirt or oil, and show off some cool artwork or free advertising for my game store.
My playmat goes in a tube so it takes up less bag space and stays in good condition. A $6 tube < my playmat from my first event to me anyway.
I buy deck boxes because dropping 6 decks worth of cards valued at 2-4 grand in the bottom of my backpack sounds idiotic.
In summary, all these products serve a need for protecting and reinforcing your investment. If you wanna bash grisly bears into your friends grisly bears, then play on a lunch room table and secure your nakie cards with a rubberband. Don't judge me if I want to protect my collectibles though. Glad I invested the effort I did when I sold my foil polluted delta from onslaught a few years back...and that's just one example where the premium I was able to acquire due to the condition is more than I'll spend for the next decade protecting the next batch of collectibles.
What exactly is the complaint? Carry all of your unsleeved, unboxed decks in your pockets then, and let me know how that works for you. Seriously, "There are things available for me to buy" is a moronic thing to complain about.
Side note, mats also make it easier to pick up cards.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
A card at $5.10 is worth its weight in gold. So if I am running a 1000 dollar card. I'll sleeve it in a box If I have to.
How do you figure? From Quiet Speculation there are 257 cards to a pound, so about 16 cards per ounce. Market price of gold right now is about $1340 per ounce. From those numbers, a card is literally worth its weight in gold at just above $80. Seeing as that's 16x the original number you gave, I'm guessing that whoever did that calculation read the price of gold as per ounce rather than price per pound.
For the OP, I typically run single sleeved with a playmat, including my thousand dollar cards. I've also had some cards damaged when single sleeved that would have been OK if they were double sleeved. Normal sleeve over perfect fit isn't about protecting the perfect fit. Playmat is there because I like to minimize the amount of gunk on sleeves when I play for my own personal comfort, and I've played on some surfaces (bar tables, etc) that would not have helped that cause without a mat. If I don't enjoy playing with sticky sleeves, I can either replace the sleeves periodically or I can play on a different surface. Playmat is much cheaper than boxes of replacement sleeves in the long run.
That said, if I dropped a bunch of money on a custom mat and/or sleeves, I wouldn't feel too bad about protecting them. I don't, so I don't buy those products. Just like I don't buy specialized binders, deck boxes, counters, etc. There's really no downside to having these products available and other people buy them, so why not?
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Normal sleeves, because shuffling with sleeves is easier than shuffling without them, and it reduces card wear.
Inner sleeves, for my non-rotating decks because it almost eliminates the danger posed by spilled drinks, and also because it lets me switch cards in the deck without completely desleeving them (for expensive cards).
Play mat, because my game store allows food at the tables and rarely (if ever) wash them. Also, it makes sliding and picking up cards without damaging them easier, espescially unsleeved cards I just drafted. Sliding and picking up cards is the reason why classical card tables have felt tops, a play mat is a much more reasonable investment than a card table, easier to carry too.
My $8 blank, white play mat came with a plastic tube for shipping. Rolling the playmat also makes it easier to transport.
Of all the products you listed, the only one that I don't use myself are the outer sleeves. I've never seen those in real life, and I agree that they are uneccessary for most players.
Are you kidding me? What's next the tube to protect the tube that protects the play mat that protects the outer sleeve that protect the normal sleeve that protect the inner sleeve?
"I don't know why she swallowed the fly...I guess she'll die."
People like to (over)protect their cards, and are willing to pay for it, so the industry said "We'll happily take your money!". Simple as that.
The Magic community begged for those very things for a very long time.
When Magic was introduced you had only two means to protect your cards, assuming you realized your $50 Black Lotus was going to be worth more than my first car twentythree years later, junk penny sleeves or top loaders.
Inner sleeves were a real desire. I remember scrounging through boxes of penny sleeves and seperating them into two piles, ones that were cut slightly too large and those cut slightly too small. That's how I began sleeving my decks from Ice Age forward.
When they introduce the thicker "gaming sleeves" years later, gamers were all over it like white on rice. But those early sleeves sucked too. Often they were cut too short so your cards would get damaged across the top as you shuffled them. They cut them longer. But cards would slip around too much in them getting weird wear patterns.
Then someone introduced the insanely dumb tight fit game sleeves (still no inners at this time) and Ultra-Pro had notoriously bad penny sleeve batches. Some batches were cut so wide they didn't fit properly inside card boxes. Most of us used these to protect the game sleeves (still no art at this time) because of the problems with the card slipping and ruining the tops.
I left magic sometime after Weatherlight block I guess.
I came back and the sleeves are much much better now. The types and sizes of sleeves we've been clamoring for for years. It's still not perfect. It's hard to find clear sleeves and many colors have limited runs. Quality control problems crop up from time to time but the variances are single digit mm's or less now. Greatest variance I found in Ultra-Pros is around 4mm between extremes. In late 1990's variances often reached 1/4 inch or more.
Mats are great. They replace the poker tables I had to drag out in the 90's. I still have mine, the soft top replaced several times and one of the legs bent. The sky blue enamel darkened with age and stains. Mats are the next generation. You can take them anywhere and turn any surface into a suitable playing surface for playing cards, not just MtG.
Seriously, if you complain about mats, you've never played "real" card games. Those soft top tables are all but required.
Complaining about card boxes and mat tubes is like complaining about having a garage. My only complaint is that we're missing out on sooooo much improvement that other collectables and archivals enjoy.
I do everything I can to preserve my games. Not just MtG.
My kids particularly enjoy Fast 111's board game circa 1985ish. I didn't take the best care of it as a kid so I try to preserve it as well as I can given how much my kids seem to like it. My wife absolutely loves her version of Monopoly circa 1970's and not so much any one of my four versions dating 90's or later.
I try to take good care of my games, even if it means shelling out a small percentage of what I spend otherwise on things to make sure they last a little bit longer.
Point is, you can treat your cards how you like. But don't get upset if you can't sell them at NM/LP value because you didn't bother to care for them.
If it would cost more to replace your deck than it would cost to replace your sleeves, sleeving your deck is insurance against damage. Double-sleeving a deck protects against more damage, including making the deck water-resistant -- a card will still get damaged if submerged, but a splash of Coke won't ruin your deck.
Triple-sleeving isn't as necessary, but the KMC Character Guard sleeves (the only ones I'm personally familiar with) are really more about looking cool than protection. Although I suppose you could get double-sleeving with a standard+outer sleeve instead of with inner+standard.
Playmats can put a layer of separation between your cards and a potentially dubious quality surface you're playing on. Most LGSs have decently clean tables (mine even has table cloths), but that's not always the surface you're playing on. Playmats also make it easier to pick up flat cards on a flat surface, and they encourage players to limit the table real estate they take up, which can sometimes be at a premium.
A card at $5.10 is worth its weight in gold. So if I am running a 1000 dollar card. I'll sleeve it in a box If I have to.
How do you figure? From Quiet Speculation there are 257 cards to a pound, so about 16 cards per ounce. Market price of gold right now is about $1340 per ounce. From those numbers, a card is literally worth its weight in gold at just above $80. Seeing as that's 16x the original number you gave, I'm guessing that whoever did that calculation read the price of gold as per ounce rather than price per pound.
For the OP, I typically run single sleeved with a playmat, including my thousand dollar cards. I've also had some cards damaged when single sleeved that would have been OK if they were double sleeved. Normal sleeve over perfect fit isn't about protecting the perfect fit. Playmat is there because I like to minimize the amount of gunk on sleeves when I play for my own personal comfort, and I've played on some surfaces (bar tables, etc) that would not have helped that cause without a mat. If I don't enjoy playing with sticky sleeves, I can either replace the sleeves periodically or I can play on a different surface. Playmat is much cheaper than boxes of replacement sleeves in the long run.
That said, if I dropped a bunch of money on a custom mat and/or sleeves, I wouldn't feel too bad about protecting them. I don't, so I don't buy those products. Just like I don't buy specialized binders, deck boxes, counters, etc. There's really no downside to having these products available and other people buy them, so why not?
well that guy is a jackass... i was happy that my cards had value.
It is ridiculous and over the top but that is what the market wants.
Yes they can buy a roll up bamboo mat or suitably sized hand towel for $5, but if people want to pay $40 for a giant mouse pad, that's up to them.
I was playing a lot from 2000-2009 and I rarely saw playmats and hardly anyone double sleeved.
I got back in to the game last year and it seems like everyone has their own playmat, their own playmat tube, and doublesleeves their decks, even if it's a ***** standard deck worth $50-60 The set up of buying a playmat, tube, and double sleeves costs more than many peoples decks
Again, in my opinion all of these accessories are idiotic and stupid, but it's what the player base wants. These sites like Channel Fireball and MTGoldfish have done a brilliant job at pushing these unneeded accessory products and making them seem like requirements.
I have no problem with how people want to spend their money. I don't hold it against them and I don't say anything. But on the inside, yep, I definitely think the Magic accessory double/triple sleeve industry is pretty ridiculous.
And that said, my Legacy Dredge deck is double sleeved, but I only did that after I got LEDs
Well if you aren't putting your Battle of Wits deck in perfect fits, then sleeves, then third sleeves, then top loaders, then oversized card sleeves, then 2 boxes, then a briefcase, then a backpack, then you aren't doing it right.
All the other decks though, I don't see the need to go beyond double. Considering how wavy the edges of...5 of my mats are, I would have to say a tube probably would've helped prevent that. I don't have one, but I do have 6 mats
First you have inner perfect fit sleeve to protect your cards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6b0wADhC9s
Then you have the normal sleeve to protect the inner sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bu1h0gtu2U
Then, you have the outer sleeves to protect the normal sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRR3DiExdb8
Then, you have the play mat to protect the outer sleeve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYLxnV68Uow
Then, you have the tube to protect the play mat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai6odqxTQGU
Are you kidding me? What's next the tube to protect the tube that protects the play mat that protects the outer sleeve that protect the normal sleeve that protect the inner sleeve? Protectception?
Please spare me the 'if you don't like it, don't buy it' or 'they want to protect their 1000dollar cards'. I understand card needs protection but to that extent???
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
In addition to acting in a functional capacity, these items help you to tailor your aesthetic to your own personal tastes. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your hobby and wanting to be expressive.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Don't forget deck boxes and the boxes you use to carry said deck boxes.
It's also a matter of keeping the cards in the same condition as you recieved them. It's bad enough when a card drops in popularity or the Modern deck it was in got torn apart by bans, then you are also decreasing the value of your cards by not taking proper care of them.
Sleeves can also be very expensive, especially the ones with pictures and such, so is it so bad to keep them protected with cheaper sleeves that are easier to replace?
Play mats are the same way. What of the PTQ or Gameday mats that are near impossible to replace? Or maybe a custom made playmat? It's already going to wear out, eventually, just from you using it. Why not protect it while traveling or storing it?
MTG is already expensive enough, yes, but it's more expensive when you have to replace things on a regular basis becuase you aren't taking the care that you should.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Yes, oh goodness, how can I forget the deck boxes that protect the sleeves that protect the sleeves... that protect the cards?
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
I play on a mat because it's easier to manage the cards, organize a cohesive board, protect my outer sleeves from collecting so much dirt or oil, and show off some cool artwork or free advertising for my game store.
My playmat goes in a tube so it takes up less bag space and stays in good condition. A $6 tube < my playmat from my first event to me anyway.
I buy deck boxes because dropping 6 decks worth of cards valued at 2-4 grand in the bottom of my backpack sounds idiotic.
In summary, all these products serve a need for protecting and reinforcing your investment. If you wanna bash grisly bears into your friends grisly bears, then play on a lunch room table and secure your nakie cards with a rubberband. Don't judge me if I want to protect my collectibles though. Glad I invested the effort I did when I sold my foil polluted delta from onslaught a few years back...and that's just one example where the premium I was able to acquire due to the condition is more than I'll spend for the next decade protecting the next batch of collectibles.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Side note, mats also make it easier to pick up cards.
My 720 Peasant Cube
For the OP, I typically run single sleeved with a playmat, including my thousand dollar cards. I've also had some cards damaged when single sleeved that would have been OK if they were double sleeved. Normal sleeve over perfect fit isn't about protecting the perfect fit. Playmat is there because I like to minimize the amount of gunk on sleeves when I play for my own personal comfort, and I've played on some surfaces (bar tables, etc) that would not have helped that cause without a mat. If I don't enjoy playing with sticky sleeves, I can either replace the sleeves periodically or I can play on a different surface. Playmat is much cheaper than boxes of replacement sleeves in the long run.
That said, if I dropped a bunch of money on a custom mat and/or sleeves, I wouldn't feel too bad about protecting them. I don't, so I don't buy those products. Just like I don't buy specialized binders, deck boxes, counters, etc. There's really no downside to having these products available and other people buy them, so why not?
Normal sleeves, because shuffling with sleeves is easier than shuffling without them, and it reduces card wear.
Inner sleeves, for my non-rotating decks because it almost eliminates the danger posed by spilled drinks, and also because it lets me switch cards in the deck without completely desleeving them (for expensive cards).
Play mat, because my game store allows food at the tables and rarely (if ever) wash them. Also, it makes sliding and picking up cards without damaging them easier, espescially unsleeved cards I just drafted. Sliding and picking up cards is the reason why classical card tables have felt tops, a play mat is a much more reasonable investment than a card table, easier to carry too.
My $8 blank, white play mat came with a plastic tube for shipping. Rolling the playmat also makes it easier to transport.
Of all the products you listed, the only one that I don't use myself are the outer sleeves. I've never seen those in real life, and I agree that they are uneccessary for most players.
"I don't know why she swallowed the fly...I guess she'll die."
People like to (over)protect their cards, and are willing to pay for it, so the industry said "We'll happily take your money!". Simple as that.
When Magic was introduced you had only two means to protect your cards, assuming you realized your $50 Black Lotus was going to be worth more than my first car twentythree years later, junk penny sleeves or top loaders.
Inner sleeves were a real desire. I remember scrounging through boxes of penny sleeves and seperating them into two piles, ones that were cut slightly too large and those cut slightly too small. That's how I began sleeving my decks from Ice Age forward.
When they introduce the thicker "gaming sleeves" years later, gamers were all over it like white on rice. But those early sleeves sucked too. Often they were cut too short so your cards would get damaged across the top as you shuffled them. They cut them longer. But cards would slip around too much in them getting weird wear patterns.
Then someone introduced the insanely dumb tight fit game sleeves (still no inners at this time) and Ultra-Pro had notoriously bad penny sleeve batches. Some batches were cut so wide they didn't fit properly inside card boxes. Most of us used these to protect the game sleeves (still no art at this time) because of the problems with the card slipping and ruining the tops.
I left magic sometime after Weatherlight block I guess.
I came back and the sleeves are much much better now. The types and sizes of sleeves we've been clamoring for for years. It's still not perfect. It's hard to find clear sleeves and many colors have limited runs. Quality control problems crop up from time to time but the variances are single digit mm's or less now. Greatest variance I found in Ultra-Pros is around 4mm between extremes. In late 1990's variances often reached 1/4 inch or more.
Mats are great. They replace the poker tables I had to drag out in the 90's. I still have mine, the soft top replaced several times and one of the legs bent. The sky blue enamel darkened with age and stains. Mats are the next generation. You can take them anywhere and turn any surface into a suitable playing surface for playing cards, not just MtG.
Seriously, if you complain about mats, you've never played "real" card games. Those soft top tables are all but required.
Complaining about card boxes and mat tubes is like complaining about having a garage. My only complaint is that we're missing out on sooooo much improvement that other collectables and archivals enjoy.
I do everything I can to preserve my games. Not just MtG.
My kids particularly enjoy Fast 111's board game circa 1985ish. I didn't take the best care of it as a kid so I try to preserve it as well as I can given how much my kids seem to like it. My wife absolutely loves her version of Monopoly circa 1970's and not so much any one of my four versions dating 90's or later.
I try to take good care of my games, even if it means shelling out a small percentage of what I spend otherwise on things to make sure they last a little bit longer.
Point is, you can treat your cards how you like. But don't get upset if you can't sell them at NM/LP value because you didn't bother to care for them.
Triple-sleeving isn't as necessary, but the KMC Character Guard sleeves (the only ones I'm personally familiar with) are really more about looking cool than protection. Although I suppose you could get double-sleeving with a standard+outer sleeve instead of with inner+standard.
Playmats can put a layer of separation between your cards and a potentially dubious quality surface you're playing on. Most LGSs have decently clean tables (mine even has table cloths), but that's not always the surface you're playing on. Playmats also make it easier to pick up flat cards on a flat surface, and they encourage players to limit the table real estate they take up, which can sometimes be at a premium.
Some playmats also offer a life-tracking option.
Tubes are for ease of transport, not for protection. Most tubes I see people use are simply the case that the mat came in when purchased, as well.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
well that guy is a jackass... i was happy that my cards had value.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Yes they can buy a roll up bamboo mat or suitably sized hand towel for $5, but if people want to pay $40 for a giant mouse pad, that's up to them.
I was playing a lot from 2000-2009 and I rarely saw playmats and hardly anyone double sleeved.
I got back in to the game last year and it seems like everyone has their own playmat, their own playmat tube, and doublesleeves their decks, even if it's a ***** standard deck worth $50-60 The set up of buying a playmat, tube, and double sleeves costs more than many peoples decks
Again, in my opinion all of these accessories are idiotic and stupid, but it's what the player base wants. These sites like Channel Fireball and MTGoldfish have done a brilliant job at pushing these unneeded accessory products and making them seem like requirements.
I have no problem with how people want to spend their money. I don't hold it against them and I don't say anything. But on the inside, yep, I definitely think the Magic accessory double/triple sleeve industry is pretty ridiculous.
And that said, my Legacy Dredge deck is double sleeved, but I only did that after I got LEDs
All the other decks though, I don't see the need to go beyond double. Considering how wavy the edges of...5 of my mats are, I would have to say a tube probably would've helped prevent that. I don't have one, but I do have 6 mats
WUBRGReaper King - Superfriends
WUBRGChild of Alara - The Nauseating Aurora
WUBSharuum the Hegemon - Christmas In Prison
WUBZur the Enchanter - Ow My Face
WRJor Kadeen, the Prevailer - Snow Goats
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden - International Goblin All Purpose Recycling Facility Number 12
WGSaffi Eriksdotter - Saffi Combosdotter
UPatron of the Moon - The Age of Aquarius
BHorobi, Death's Wail - Bring Out Your Dead
GSachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Sneks