This is a thread for discussion on the concept of expeditions every set, not the individual cards. There is already a thread for that
While I am super happy about these, I am extremely ticked off as well. This "idea" is pretty much a reason for WotC to sell packs. The rarity, while I know is needed, is too high. One in two boxes shouldve been enough. This is just another Rich get Richer and Poor get Poorer story. The people that can afford them at the ridiculous prices they will be at will own them all, thus setting the price that high. While the people that cant afford them will look at the price tag and wonder how they were ever going to get them.
Lets face it, people with money set the prices of the secondary market. If people dont pay two hundred for goyfs, they wouldnt be that high, but the fact that people shell out that much is the reason they stay there, as long as people are willing to pay the price, a card will never go down.
So the fact that most of these new ones are presaling on ebay for 150+ means that if people pay that much for them, they probably wont go down much on release, soa full set of 30 will likely be between 3-5k. Which is rediculous..... Why would WotC do this? Lets go over their reasoning...
Challenge #1 Keeping standard accessible
The only reason masters will help, is the sheer number of packs opened will drive the price of most standard cards down
Challenge #2: Getting Players Access to Older Cards
This is a joke. Current printings will not go down, and these will be much more expensive, thus access to older cards will not change for the people that couldnt afford them to begin with.
Challenge #3: Providing Alternatives for Deck Building
WotC is finally banking on their pimping players of various formats. So more money for them...yay.
These cards are going to be expensive no matter what, but super rare rarity, means they will be more expensive than they should be. They should all fall around 30-60 bucks, if challenge 2 is their goal. but instead they will be much much more. Which is funny when most foil mythics(which will be the same rarity) will likely be 10 bucks or so...
Thank you for starting a new thread. The other discussion is 'buried' in a thread with a completely obscure title. When I wanted to talk about this subject this morning I was shocked there was no such thread until I found it buried in the Mothership Spoilers.
This is a thread for discussion on the concept of expeditions every set, not the individual cards. There is already a thread for that
Challenge #1 Keeping standard accessible
The only reason masters will help, is the sheer number of packs opened will drive the price of most standard cards down
I have a feeling this will have unintended consequences.
They are basing this premise on the hype for Expeditions - which were lands. Good lands are much, much more sought after than any other card type simply because everyone who plays those colours wants them. I'm not entirely sure we'll see the same success with Masterpiece cards which have a much narrower demand window.
If the price of your average Standard card goes down (which seems to be the stated intent), then it will skew the EVs of the packs towards the Masterpiece cards. Currently it is skewed to the Mythic Rares - with Rares only really be worth it if they are a tourney must-have or foil. This will generally mean that each box is more of a gamble than it was previously - which only hurts small-scale singles sellers. Thus I expect small-scale single sellers will quit the business and large scale sellers will have a corner on the market that they didn't have previously - which could allow them to hike up the prices.
I have no opinion about #2 and #3, since I only play Standard. Although because I only play Standard I'd really rather not have my Mythic Rare be replaced with a 'Masterpiece' that I more than likely can't use in Standard. It creates an added stress for me to have to trade it for something I can actually use.
There seems to be an assumption that a company making a move because it's very profitable is bad for customers on a fundemental level. The thing is, this product is only financially successful because players enjoy it so much. It encourages players to crack packs because the potential for excitement, without raising, and potentially even somewhat lowering, the barrier to entry that is secondary market prices.
I've seen people claiming this is MaRo pissing on them and telling them it's raining, but that'd require them to be negatively impacted in some way, and this really doesn't hurt anyone in a vacuum. At worst it's MaRo telling people it's raining when it's just a very light drizzle.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
It hurts singles sellers. Since the EV is weighted into even a smaller set of rarer cards then they are gambling more per box. It will drive smaller outfits that can afford fewer boxes out of the market and only larger outfits that have enough volume to ride the variance will be able to stay in business.
Immediately I'm thinking of DesolatorMagic on YouTube, who already seems to struggle with keeping his singles operation open and doesn't get nearly the volume to ride out this variance when you aren't even guaranteed 1/box.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
Not to worried about this one, maybe driving Mythic down will increase flow into the Standard, which may save smaller scale shop.
Either way, just like expedition, those cards essentially have "If you pull this during limited, you win even if you lose every single game in that limited." for most people.
I don't have an issue with it. In fact, I'm pretty happy about it because it's additional bling that will find its way into collectors' pockets with no negative impact on myself. The problem arises only in competitive drafts where a sword or Mana Crypt might really mess things up, and that sucks. If the art quality persists then this is a very cool perk. I'm slightly skeptical that people will keep buying boxes all the time to chase these though. I mean, if "Oozeland" becomes a theme (please gimmuh a legendary Ooze!) then sure, Scavenging Ooze suprafoil would be great, but if you open that Primordial Ooze, ugh.
I mean, this won't help that much, but it's a nice perk, like good mints after a decent meal.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
But then if the stores jack the prices up then the small scale sellers would come back because there would be money to be made.
Opening packs has always been bad for ev, this doesn't change that. Sure, your 3 prize packs are almost surely going to worth less than if these ultra rares weren't in the set but that just means the cards people need are cheaper.
I love this, the cost of entry for standard is ridiculous. They saw this and came up with a solution that helps the average player while also giving hardcore players something to work toward.
This really only hurts people that want them but can't afford them but that's...just too bad.
Aside from the financial issues in my current situation, what pushed me out of Magic (this time probably for good) is Eldritch Moon and what it means for Magic going forward. That is, the lastest few sets have become an increasingly small handful of chase cards accompanied by an increasingly large avalnche of garbage. There are reasons for this, that I'm contemplating making a full article about, but the end result is that buying booster packs has become approximately as lucrative as buying a scratchoff lottery ticket. There is literally no reason to buy boosters any more, because the odds are greater and greater that you will get something that no one will use.
(Side note: this is also why Standard has become either playing a Bant deck that plays Collected Company or playing against a Bant deck that plays Collected Company, but I digress)
So, Wizards decided to find ways to get people to buy packs. And why create more quality cards when you can print hundred dollar bills (with a few twenties, tens, and fives for good measure) to mix in with your card pool? To continue the scratchoff comparison, this is Wizards basically making a jackpot for their lottery game. Yeah, they'll sell more packs, and all it'll cost them is their goodwill and people's love of the game, especially if this carrot-on-a-stick incentive is being used as a replacement for putting out, you know, quality, which is what it's looking like.
From a collector's stand point, which is also big part of this game, I think they are great inclusions. Not everyone has to get behind them, and that is fine.
Opening packs has always been bad for ev, this doesn't change that. Sure, your 3 prize packs are almost surely going to worth less than if these ultra rares weren't in the set but that just means the cards people need are cheaper.
That's only true if you buy packs at retail value. If you get them at cost from the distributor (by the crate) then it's worth it to operate as a singles seller. Or at least it used to be. Not sure about now.
Single sellers are basically the ones that 'set the price'. Cost of opening boxes + overhead split amongst all the boxes + demand increased for specific cards (mostly case rares/mythics). So you can bet that for them it is worth it to open the boxes - otherwise they would never do it and just hold the boxes to sell when the demand is high enough that someone else is willing to gamble on the box.
However, yes, for your average joe it is always a loss for you to buy a couple boxes hoping to sell your mythic rares - in no small part because you don't have an easy distribution channel and you'll probably get 'priced out' if you try to sell them on ebay as an unknown seller.
If anything I think the only problem with the idea is the novelty of it being somewhat stale a couple years down the road.
This is my biggest concern. It was cool in BFZ (and saved a somewhat lackluster set) but getting these every year would quickly take the shine off the apple. My other concern is running out of cards that fit the sets theme. Lands and Artifacts are easy on planes about lands and artifacts but what do you put in the Egyptian set? Ancient Tomb has been done and almost every Egyptian-style card from the old days is on the reserve list or not worth anything. The lotuses could fit, maybe the wishes but they are hardly expensive.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
This idea is just a way to sell pack? You mean a company whose sole purpose is to sell packs and make money selling packs does something to sell more packs? Now that is unheard of!
How is this "rich get rich, poor stay poor" in any way shaep or form? Isn't it more like "rich gets some extra toys, poor might get lucky and open one aswell"?
Yeah, some cards cost more money because people are willing to pay more money for them, what does that have to do with wotc releasing some rare cards taht will cost quite a bit of money?
Reasons:
#1 Yeah, and it WILL help.
#2 there will be more older cards in circulation, how do you reason that won't increase accessibility? There will be more cards to access. ergo they will be more accessible.
#3 They are printing some cards that people who like pimp will enjoiy. but that is somehow bad because wotc makes money off it? Again, how DARE a company (you know, those things supposed to make money) make money?!
tl;dr
I m all for these new expeditions with the small exception for when they mess up a competitive draft. Pretty much fully disagree with the original post which to mee seems more like whine that they will be expensive. OP, you for some reason seem to make some erorenous conection between wotc making money and that being bad for the players. But there is no such connection, a company making money does not mean that they are doing a disservice to the players.
It is actually more along the lines of the complete opposite of that. A company makes more money if they keep the people buying their product buying their product. And that is usually accomplished by making the players happy with said product.
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Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
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These are great. Everything about them is great. If you don't like them, don't trade or buy them. Otherwise your MtG experience will remain largely the same. This is a trading card game. Part of what makes it fun is the existence of sweet cards like this.
Will this influence my decision to buy sealed product? No.
Will it be fun to rip one when I'm drafting? Yes.
Will it be fun to window shop them at GP's and SCG events? Yes.
Will it adversely affect my bank account? Not any more than MtG already does.
I see these as pure value add. It only improves the quality of the product and yet another fun aspect of an already spectacular game.
I have a hard time seeing where they come up with 100 cards a year that justify the exclusivity price or power level.
When they run out of those cards I hope these become more common than the current rarity. What's the point of finally getting one of these if its not a POW hit you in the face your a lucky sob moment
Commenting on the first point, i don't think players actually want expedition lands as much as you think. Lands are just a necessary evil with magic, so you have to get the best lands to be competitive. Expeditions rarity for alternate art creatures, artifacts, planeswalkers and even spells have the potential to see more interest than lands.
#2 there will be more older cards in circulation, how do you reason that won't increase accessibility? There will be more cards to access. ergo they will be more accessible.
If they were using the old art and a normal card layout, making no differences other than the set symbol (and holographic), I would buy into that arguement right away. Because these cards are super-rare artful masterpieces, however, collectors and investors who already have the original cards have a good incentive to buy these as well. If a collector who already has a mana crypts double up and purchase super-special mana crypt, that second mana crypt isn't going towards accessibility.
To be clear:
-Quite a few masterpieces will end up in the hands of casual players who don't want to trade or sell them. While I can't dismiss this group, saying that it accounts for a large percentage of the 1 in 144 pack (1 in 4,320 for any given masterpiece) is a bit optimistic.
-In spite of meager increases in general accessibility for these cards, that might not be the accessibility you should focus on. If people keep cracking boxes to get these cards, the price of singles for the rest of the set goes down.
-I am in the group who sees the overall quality of Kaladesh so far as being pretty high (even if I think that energy is parasitic), making the "lottery instead of good sets" argument something that I don't quite agree with.
instead of buying only one box as im used to, ill probably buy 2 of them from now on since i can hit the jackpot, i remember my oath of the gatewatch box, it was a desastre,thought-knot seer foil was my only good card, but since i found a sunken ruins i was pretty happy about the box even if i had 0 planewalker and neither Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet or kozilek's return or kozilek himself.
the land itself made me forgot about how crappy the box was and instead it put a smile on my face for the whole weekend. im glad they are doing this for the future but i believe 2 sets like that a year plus the masters set would have been more than enough but i wont complain about that!
edit: my wallet will
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english aint my first language
top 5 anime of all time (tv, not books because dragon ball would be first)
This idea is just a way to sell pack? You mean a company whose sole purpose is to sell packs and make money selling packs does something to sell more packs? Now that is unheard of!
How is this "rich get rich, poor stay poor" in any way shaep or form? Isn't it more like "rich gets some extra toys, poor might get lucky and open one aswell"?
Yeah, some cards cost more money because people are willing to pay more money for them, what does that have to do with wotc releasing some rare cards taht will cost quite a bit of money?
Reasons:
#1 Yeah, and it WILL help.
#2 there will be more older cards in circulation, how do you reason that won't increase accessibility? There will be more cards to access. ergo they will be more accessible.
#3 They are printing some cards that people who like pimp will enjoiy. but that is somehow bad because wotc makes money off it? Again, how DARE a company (you know, those things supposed to make money) make money?!
tl;dr
I m all for these new expeditions with the small exception for when they mess up a competitive draft. Pretty much fully disagree with the original post which to mee seems more like whine that they will be expensive. OP, you for some reason seem to make some erorenous conection between wotc making money and that being bad for the players. But there is no such connection, a company making money does not mean that they are doing a disservice to the players.
It is actually more along the lines of the complete opposite of that. A company makes more money if they keep the people buying their product buying their product. And that is usually accomplished by making the players happy with said product.
#2 - Just because more cards are in circulation does not increase the availablity. Look at the masters sets. way more cards were put into circulation, yet the playable cards stayed expensive, while the garbage got cheaper. Sure there are more, but when the price is the same, it doesnt help the players that couldnt get them in the first place at all.
The same is going to happen here. Crucible is 50+, I dont see that changing at all. While the new one will likely be 150~. Sure there will be a few thousand more in the world, but unless that decreases the price of the ones currently in circulation by a margin thats big enough to make an impact, it wont matter. Just because there are more, doesnt make them more accessible to players.
Im all for wotc selling more packs. But they couldve done that at a rarity of 1 per box. In fact this would have helped all three of their challenges drastically. But wotc cares more about secondary value and collectors that the average player. Sure decreasing the cost of cards will hurt the market and collectors, but they will recover. making the cards cheaper and easier to obtain will increase the interest in buying them. Its supply and demand. Like large appliances are so expensive not because of the price to build them, but how often you sell them. selling 1 card for 500 to one person, or you could sell that same card for 100 to five people. Which helps the players and community more.
As for the rich get richer and poor get poorer. It makes perfect sense, the people that can afford them will buy them and take them out of circulation forever. while the poor will look at them, or save up for a few. When someone makes millions a year and never spends it, the money sits in an account not helping the economy, while the poor spend what money they have putting it back into the economy. Collectors will profit, while the average player will probably have to trade theirs away for cards they actually need.
I also agree that i dont see how they can do this every set, I think doing 25 a block and putting them in both sets seems more feasible. But hopefully these all fall below 100
I hate reprints that have the very same artwork, as they add nothing to someone that already has the card.
In general theres only positives about this inclusion.
As long as theres cards that are expensive (like Mana Crypt) , this will be a nice extra money in boosters, which is especially cool for some more casual like players that get that big value to trade in for more stuff they "actually" need or want.
For that reason its important to make absolutely sure people know at least whats super expensive, so they dont get tremendously cheated in trades (which is a very negative experience for any newbie if they get literally "robbed" of a 200$ card).
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The high number of 100 cards per year seems quite excessive , i wonder what they will use here.
Theres probably enough cards in the EDH area and a lot of overall playable cards from the past , but in the end, theres also a lot of "junk".
The current iteration pulls a lot of weight with the artifacts , as the moxes, aether vial, mana crypt and its friends are worth quite something.
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No matter what, i really like the new artworks and it adds some variety to the cards, which i also approve, as people can choose different artworks for cards, just like Promo product does (judge foils and what not, its cool to have some special artwork, you either like or you get the other artwork you like, which is especially good if the "original" artwork is kinda bad in your eye).
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As these cards are not Standard playable (outside a small part of them) , its easy to trade them away for anybody that isnt interested in them.
Positives over Positives.
Sure the numbers are a little bit extreme , could probably just be like "tripple regular mythic rare" rarity, which would be enough and increase the numbers, but the whole point is to print something for people that already spend a lot to buy foil cards, so its not for anyone, even if you would like to.
I am happy to see these cards, and looking forward to see them in the next bunch of sets to the point they run out of reprints that people care for.
lol to the people that pre-ordered Chandra at ridiculous prices. The masterpieces will drive the price down hard of standard over hyped cards in the sets which they appear in. Thumbs up wizards!
Ps. Not saying that Chandra is not good btw... love that card!
I agree that even attempting to say that Masterpieces are going to do jack to help the accessibility of older cards is a complete and utter joke. We saw this with Expeditions already. The price of the originals was essentially untouched. All that happened was that an even more expensive version of each already expensive land card was also on the market. Yay.
Seriously, I wouldn't even has put the blurb about accessibility in the article.
What these likely will do, however, is drive down the prices of singles from each set down. Though I predict this won't last for long, depending on what Masterpieces are released in each set. Undoubtedly we're going to have a round somewhere down the line that no one is really excited about.
I've also heard from several people who draft as their main way of playing the game but also don't have lined pockets that this may just kill any justification that they have for playing as they're even less likely to be able to justify the cost of drafting because they'll be able to recoup even less of the cost by selling their pulls. Just heresay on that point, though.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
#2 there will be more older cards in circulation, how do you reason that won't increase accessibility? There will be more cards to access. ergo they will be more accessible.
If they were using the old art and a normal card layout, making no differences other than the set symbol (and holographic), I would buy into that arguement right away. Because these cards are super-rare artful masterpieces, however, collectors and investors who already have the original cards have a good incentive to buy these as well. If a collector who already has a mana crypts double up and purchase super-special mana crypt, that second mana crypt isn't going towards accessibility.
To be clear:
-Quite a few masterpieces will end up in the hands of casual players who don't want to trade or sell them. While I can't dismiss this group, saying that it accounts for a large percentage of the 1 in 144 pack (1 in 4,320 for any given masterpiece) is a bit optimistic.
-In spite of meager increases in general accessibility for these cards, that might not be the accessibility you should focus on. If people keep cracking boxes to get these cards, the price of singles for the rest of the set goes down.
-I am in the group who sees the overall quality of Kaladesh so far as being pretty high (even if I think that energy is parasitic), making the "lottery instead of good sets" argument something that I don't quite agree with.
</blockquote>Let's assume that most of these cards end up in the hands of collectors, for the reasons you stated...say 60%, 40% still get to the hands of other players thus increasing availability.
Will these make a dent on the prices of the other printings of the cards? Definitely No, but that was never the intention of these (neither for MM, EM or any other premium product by the way), the intention is putting more copies in circulation to be used, if people want them, there are now more in circulation if you are willing to pay the price for them, that's all there is to it.
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While I am super happy about these, I am extremely ticked off as well. This "idea" is pretty much a reason for WotC to sell packs. The rarity, while I know is needed, is too high. One in two boxes shouldve been enough. This is just another Rich get Richer and Poor get Poorer story. The people that can afford them at the ridiculous prices they will be at will own them all, thus setting the price that high. While the people that cant afford them will look at the price tag and wonder how they were ever going to get them.
Lets face it, people with money set the prices of the secondary market. If people dont pay two hundred for goyfs, they wouldnt be that high, but the fact that people shell out that much is the reason they stay there, as long as people are willing to pay the price, a card will never go down.
So the fact that most of these new ones are presaling on ebay for 150+ means that if people pay that much for them, they probably wont go down much on release, soa full set of 30 will likely be between 3-5k. Which is rediculous..... Why would WotC do this? Lets go over their reasoning...
Challenge #1 Keeping standard accessible
The only reason masters will help, is the sheer number of packs opened will drive the price of most standard cards down
Challenge #2: Getting Players Access to Older Cards
This is a joke. Current printings will not go down, and these will be much more expensive, thus access to older cards will not change for the people that couldnt afford them to begin with.
Challenge #3: Providing Alternatives for Deck Building
WotC is finally banking on their pimping players of various formats. So more money for them...yay.
These cards are going to be expensive no matter what, but super rare rarity, means they will be more expensive than they should be. They should all fall around 30-60 bucks, if challenge 2 is their goal. but instead they will be much much more. Which is funny when most foil mythics(which will be the same rarity) will likely be 10 bucks or so...
Communities thoughts?
I have a feeling this will have unintended consequences.
They are basing this premise on the hype for Expeditions - which were lands. Good lands are much, much more sought after than any other card type simply because everyone who plays those colours wants them. I'm not entirely sure we'll see the same success with Masterpiece cards which have a much narrower demand window.
If the price of your average Standard card goes down (which seems to be the stated intent), then it will skew the EVs of the packs towards the Masterpiece cards. Currently it is skewed to the Mythic Rares - with Rares only really be worth it if they are a tourney must-have or foil. This will generally mean that each box is more of a gamble than it was previously - which only hurts small-scale singles sellers. Thus I expect small-scale single sellers will quit the business and large scale sellers will have a corner on the market that they didn't have previously - which could allow them to hike up the prices.
I have no opinion about #2 and #3, since I only play Standard. Although because I only play Standard I'd really rather not have my Mythic Rare be replaced with a 'Masterpiece' that I more than likely can't use in Standard. It creates an added stress for me to have to trade it for something I can actually use.
I've seen people claiming this is MaRo pissing on them and telling them it's raining, but that'd require them to be negatively impacted in some way, and this really doesn't hurt anyone in a vacuum. At worst it's MaRo telling people it's raining when it's just a very light drizzle.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
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It hurts singles sellers. Since the EV is weighted into even a smaller set of rarer cards then they are gambling more per box. It will drive smaller outfits that can afford fewer boxes out of the market and only larger outfits that have enough volume to ride the variance will be able to stay in business.
Immediately I'm thinking of DesolatorMagic on YouTube, who already seems to struggle with keeping his singles operation open and doesn't get nearly the volume to ride out this variance when you aren't even guaranteed 1/box.
Either way, just like expedition, those cards essentially have "If you pull this during limited, you win even if you lose every single game in that limited." for most people.
I mean, this won't help that much, but it's a nice perk, like good mints after a decent meal.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Opening packs has always been bad for ev, this doesn't change that. Sure, your 3 prize packs are almost surely going to worth less than if these ultra rares weren't in the set but that just means the cards people need are cheaper.
I love this, the cost of entry for standard is ridiculous. They saw this and came up with a solution that helps the average player while also giving hardcore players something to work toward.
This really only hurts people that want them but can't afford them but that's...just too bad.
(Side note: this is also why Standard has become either playing a Bant deck that plays Collected Company or playing against a Bant deck that plays Collected Company, but I digress)
So, Wizards decided to find ways to get people to buy packs. And why create more quality cards when you can print hundred dollar bills (with a few twenties, tens, and fives for good measure) to mix in with your card pool? To continue the scratchoff comparison, this is Wizards basically making a jackpot for their lottery game. Yeah, they'll sell more packs, and all it'll cost them is their goodwill and people's love of the game, especially if this carrot-on-a-stick incentive is being used as a replacement for putting out, you know, quality, which is what it's looking like.
That's only true if you buy packs at retail value. If you get them at cost from the distributor (by the crate) then it's worth it to operate as a singles seller. Or at least it used to be. Not sure about now.
Single sellers are basically the ones that 'set the price'. Cost of opening boxes + overhead split amongst all the boxes + demand increased for specific cards (mostly case rares/mythics). So you can bet that for them it is worth it to open the boxes - otherwise they would never do it and just hold the boxes to sell when the demand is high enough that someone else is willing to gamble on the box.
However, yes, for your average joe it is always a loss for you to buy a couple boxes hoping to sell your mythic rares - in no small part because you don't have an easy distribution channel and you'll probably get 'priced out' if you try to sell them on ebay as an unknown seller.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
How is this "rich get rich, poor stay poor" in any way shaep or form? Isn't it more like "rich gets some extra toys, poor might get lucky and open one aswell"?
Yeah, some cards cost more money because people are willing to pay more money for them, what does that have to do with wotc releasing some rare cards taht will cost quite a bit of money?
Reasons:
#1 Yeah, and it WILL help.
#2 there will be more older cards in circulation, how do you reason that won't increase accessibility? There will be more cards to access. ergo they will be more accessible.
#3 They are printing some cards that people who like pimp will enjoiy. but that is somehow bad because wotc makes money off it? Again, how DARE a company (you know, those things supposed to make money) make money?!
tl;dr
I m all for these new expeditions with the small exception for when they mess up a competitive draft. Pretty much fully disagree with the original post which to mee seems more like whine that they will be expensive. OP, you for some reason seem to make some erorenous conection between wotc making money and that being bad for the players. But there is no such connection, a company making money does not mean that they are doing a disservice to the players.
It is actually more along the lines of the complete opposite of that. A company makes more money if they keep the people buying their product buying their product. And that is usually accomplished by making the players happy with said product.
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Will this influence my decision to buy sealed product? No.
Will it be fun to rip one when I'm drafting? Yes.
Will it be fun to window shop them at GP's and SCG events? Yes.
Will it adversely affect my bank account? Not any more than MtG already does.
I see these as pure value add. It only improves the quality of the product and yet another fun aspect of an already spectacular game.
When they run out of those cards I hope these become more common than the current rarity. What's the point of finally getting one of these if its not a POW hit you in the face your a lucky sob moment
If they were using the old art and a normal card layout, making no differences other than the set symbol (and holographic), I would buy into that arguement right away. Because these cards are super-rare artful masterpieces, however, collectors and investors who already have the original cards have a good incentive to buy these as well. If a collector who already has a mana crypts double up and purchase super-special mana crypt, that second mana crypt isn't going towards accessibility.
To be clear:
-Quite a few masterpieces will end up in the hands of casual players who don't want to trade or sell them. While I can't dismiss this group, saying that it accounts for a large percentage of the 1 in 144 pack (1 in 4,320 for any given masterpiece) is a bit optimistic.
-In spite of meager increases in general accessibility for these cards, that might not be the accessibility you should focus on. If people keep cracking boxes to get these cards, the price of singles for the rest of the set goes down.
-I am in the group who sees the overall quality of Kaladesh so far as being pretty high (even if I think that energy is parasitic), making the "lottery instead of good sets" argument something that I don't quite agree with.
the land itself made me forgot about how crappy the box was and instead it put a smile on my face for the whole weekend. im glad they are doing this for the future but i believe 2 sets like that a year plus the masters set would have been more than enough but i wont complain about that!
edit: my wallet will
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#2 - Just because more cards are in circulation does not increase the availablity. Look at the masters sets. way more cards were put into circulation, yet the playable cards stayed expensive, while the garbage got cheaper. Sure there are more, but when the price is the same, it doesnt help the players that couldnt get them in the first place at all.
The same is going to happen here. Crucible is 50+, I dont see that changing at all. While the new one will likely be 150~. Sure there will be a few thousand more in the world, but unless that decreases the price of the ones currently in circulation by a margin thats big enough to make an impact, it wont matter. Just because there are more, doesnt make them more accessible to players.
Im all for wotc selling more packs. But they couldve done that at a rarity of 1 per box. In fact this would have helped all three of their challenges drastically. But wotc cares more about secondary value and collectors that the average player. Sure decreasing the cost of cards will hurt the market and collectors, but they will recover. making the cards cheaper and easier to obtain will increase the interest in buying them. Its supply and demand. Like large appliances are so expensive not because of the price to build them, but how often you sell them. selling 1 card for 500 to one person, or you could sell that same card for 100 to five people. Which helps the players and community more.
As for the rich get richer and poor get poorer. It makes perfect sense, the people that can afford them will buy them and take them out of circulation forever. while the poor will look at them, or save up for a few. When someone makes millions a year and never spends it, the money sits in an account not helping the economy, while the poor spend what money they have putting it back into the economy. Collectors will profit, while the average player will probably have to trade theirs away for cards they actually need.
I also agree that i dont see how they can do this every set, I think doing 25 a block and putting them in both sets seems more feasible. But hopefully these all fall below 100
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I hate reprints that have the very same artwork, as they add nothing to someone that already has the card.
In general theres only positives about this inclusion.
As long as theres cards that are expensive (like Mana Crypt) , this will be a nice extra money in boosters, which is especially cool for some more casual like players that get that big value to trade in for more stuff they "actually" need or want.
For that reason its important to make absolutely sure people know at least whats super expensive, so they dont get tremendously cheated in trades (which is a very negative experience for any newbie if they get literally "robbed" of a 200$ card).
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The high number of 100 cards per year seems quite excessive , i wonder what they will use here.
Theres probably enough cards in the EDH area and a lot of overall playable cards from the past , but in the end, theres also a lot of "junk".
The current iteration pulls a lot of weight with the artifacts , as the moxes, aether vial, mana crypt and its friends are worth quite something.
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No matter what, i really like the new artworks and it adds some variety to the cards, which i also approve, as people can choose different artworks for cards, just like Promo product does (judge foils and what not, its cool to have some special artwork, you either like or you get the other artwork you like, which is especially good if the "original" artwork is kinda bad in your eye).
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As these cards are not Standard playable (outside a small part of them) , its easy to trade them away for anybody that isnt interested in them.
Positives over Positives.
Sure the numbers are a little bit extreme , could probably just be like "tripple regular mythic rare" rarity, which would be enough and increase the numbers, but the whole point is to print something for people that already spend a lot to buy foil cards, so its not for anyone, even if you would like to.
I am happy to see these cards, and looking forward to see them in the next bunch of sets to the point they run out of reprints that people care for.
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Ps. Not saying that Chandra is not good btw... love that card!
Seriously, I wouldn't even has put the blurb about accessibility in the article.
What these likely will do, however, is drive down the prices of singles from each set down. Though I predict this won't last for long, depending on what Masterpieces are released in each set. Undoubtedly we're going to have a round somewhere down the line that no one is really excited about.
I've also heard from several people who draft as their main way of playing the game but also don't have lined pockets that this may just kill any justification that they have for playing as they're even less likely to be able to justify the cost of drafting because they'll be able to recoup even less of the cost by selling their pulls. Just heresay on that point, though.
-Chandra Nalaar
Will these make a dent on the prices of the other printings of the cards? Definitely No, but that was never the intention of these (neither for MM, EM or any other premium product by the way), the intention is putting more copies in circulation to be used, if people want them, there are now more in circulation if you are willing to pay the price for them, that's all there is to it.