I am wondering what people's opinions are on how to best handle this situation:
My wife went me with to play draft this Friday night. We are playing at a store that has now been open less than two months. There is an older man who has been a regular there since it opened, being chummy with everyone, including me and he knows my name, but I've yet to learn his. My wife was not planning to play standard after the draft, but this guy has been pestering everyone to play standard every time I've seen him there, and he decided to pay for my wife's standard entry so she could borrow a store deck. At this point we thought he was just being nice, I believe I have seen him give people a few cards they needed to play standard before.
He plays her in the third round and she ends up beating him twice with the under-powered store deck. He complains about being beaten by a girl, but immediately adds that he is joking. He then asks if she likes the store deck and offers to buy her a similar copy of it for her. Getting slightly creepy here...
Later he comes over to me and asks if he can come to our house and help her with her deck...getting very creepy now. If he offers this again I am going to be complaining to the store managers.
I think I would probably just express that you're feeling slightly uncomfortable to him. I don't get the feeling of anything wrong here so much as someone who doesn't have a very good idea of appropriate boundaries and is just trying to be friendly. I'd only say it could be wrong if it's something that he exclusively does with females, but it's not really something I'm super positive of. From what you said though he's nice to everyone, so it doesn't seem likely to be that kind of focus.
Yeah it just sounds like he's really friendly but doesn't understand boundaries. However I would complain if things get weirder and he keeps crossing the line.
If you wanna be on the safe side and if you can, just go to a different store where you have a lower chance to meet him. If he is really a creepy person like you fear, talking to him or to the store owner may trigger him the wrong way. Probably it's not the case, he may just be an overly friendly person, but if you really want to be on the safe side, just don't go to that store anymore.
I'm assuming that you aren't that close to anyone from that store, so I'd consider this option. You may return to the store much much later (like going once every two months or so) if you really feel like it.
The creepy part is you seem unable to draw boundaries. When he asked to come over to your house, that's when you say, "You're a virtual stranger. **** no, you're not coming to my house." Or if you want to take a softer line, "We have a few minutes, why don't we sit down and work on the deck here?" Why do you have to involve store management?
How about you ask him point blank his name. If you're playing DCI sanctioned events, he gave a name to the shop.
How about you don't let him pay for your wife to do things in the future. I don't know why you agreed to that one. If you felt that it was creepy only in retrospect, that's when you give the old guy the $5 or whatever it was to pay for your wife and tell him to **** off about it. For all we know, this old guy is just really socially awkward and you're just geeking out over nothing. People who want to help people with decks usually mean well, but some of them seem to have a short circuit or two. But that's ok, you don't have to be super friends with everyone at the shop. Draw some lines or go somewhere else.
Thank you everyone, especially Xeruh and AlecPyron. We would prefer to go to another store, but this is the closest one and its still 30 miles away, the next is almost 60 and has gone down the toilet in service quality since it was sold to a new owner.
Xeruh, I am not sure if his "generosity" seems to be more for females, as I have yet to see any other women playing magic when I go to draft on Fridays. Perhaps you are right and he meant nothing by it, for now I will just keep an eye out and see. I will try to avoid standard for now, since that is all I have seen him play, although if I see him making this same offer to any other women who come in to play, I will speak up to the store manager.
Quacker, it must be nice to have all the social answers on a Rolodex in your head ready to use at a moments notice. My wife and I both have Asperger's, and neither of us felt capable of giving him more than a "no" at that moment. We should not have to explain to someone why what they are asking is inappropriate, especially if that someone has not learned that rather important lesson by his age.
I actually don't think there is anything "creepy" going on, but of course I'm not there in the situation in your shoes. So, obviously your opinion in the matter is more important. That being said, I think the guy is just "old school." This type of behavior was very fine and very commonplace many, many, many years ago. Nowadays with people being more observant of bad things that have happened in the news or to people we know, it is pretty "creepy."
He probably just wants more players at the FNM and is willing to sacrifice some money to have that. It is pretty odd if he is only offering to help girls. Perhaps he thinks that it will be tougher to convince them to continue to play? I could see that point of view.
In the end, I would probably just make some excuse as to why it wouldn't be a good idea for him to come over. Your house is "really messy" and there are things all over. Even if it's okay with him to come to that situation, you wouldn't feel comfortable with that. That may be the best to try to avoid bad feelings. If you don't care about bad feelings, I would just say that he's not welcome. It sounds odd to lie to him for the sake of being "less rude," but it is actually a pretty important skill to have in this life time. , but really it is.
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Lmao, the guy is hitting on your wife....figure of speach
I cannot obvioulsy read his mind, the idea hes making behind it...
Most probable that hes feeling lonely toward women, especially in this type of environnement, and he found out that he could make a connection with one
Wether its clean or dirty is up to be determined
You should just have a chat with your wife how she feels about it.....not a confrontation, a chat...basically what you've wrote so far, your assesment of the situation
And obvisouly no would be the answer of inviting him to your house
First off, I do talk a lot to people, especially new players. I give cards, help with decks, and sometimes give decks away. however, the comment about losing to a girl and about going to your house crossed socially acceptable lines and are very serious red flags. It is likely he is unaware he crossed lines so it is best to clear the air. Talk to the store manager and staff and ask them to sit down and talk to him about that. Do not confront him yourself (you and your wife). That could easily put him on the defensive and he might not be mentally all there and lash out.
From what you said, I take him as a socially awkward individual that finds comfort in helping others and feels like he is contributing, something I gather he does not get outside of cards. He might be taking to your wife because it is female positive attention. That does not mean he into your wife, but rather getting positive attention from the opposite sex might be something he is really enjoying. It could easily lead somewhere dangerous, so to be careful and set very clear boundaries.
All and all, it is likely he is just a socially awkward nice guy, but protect yourself because even if he has the best of intentions, things could get dark very easily. To sum it up, talk to the staff at the store he goes to and let them talk to him. You should not talk to him about that because you do not know how he will react.
I already have talked with her, she read the initial post before I finalized it. She felt uncomfortable when he started offering to buy her the deck, and was extremely uncomfortable after he asked to come back to our house. She agrees with me that his behavior is inappropriate for a game store, especially one that so far has had few female players. His behavior is likely to drive off any that may show up if this is typical of him.
@Rai Kerensky, thank you for the constructive post. We did think he was just being helpful at first, seeing as it is a new store. We will see what the staff thinks, perhaps they have had other comments regarding him before.
First off, I do talk a lot to people, especially new players. I give cards, help with decks, and sometimes give decks away. however, the comment about losing to a girl and about going to your house crossed socially acceptable lines and are very serious red flags. It is likely he is unaware he crossed lines so it is best to clear the air. Talk to the store manager and staff and ask them to sit down and talk to him about that. Do not confront him yourself (you and your wife). That could easily put him on the defensive and he might not be mentally all there and lash out.
I would talk to him myself, in a non-agressive way to clear why i believe his behaviour was inappropriate, but i am from europe, not the us, so there might be some social diffrences in handling such situations.
(but i would take it personal if someone had such a problem with me and wouldn´t talk to me themself. it has something to do with my personal view of respekt).
If this was a normal person, yes, talking to them directly could be fine. However, it is unclear if this a person with a normal mindset and is most likely socially awkward, and it could easily lead to things becoming bad for either side and it would be better if there was an impartial side to talk to other man as to best avoid creating a conflict between the two parties. Also, I am not quite sure how Europeans react in general, but in the United States, it is not out of question for this person to blow up and go violent. I understand your point about it coming off as rude and a personal insult, but in the interest of safety for both parties, it is best for a third party to handle this.
Quacker, it must be nice to have all the social answers on a Rolodex in your head ready to use at a moments notice. My wife and I both have Asperger's, and neither of us felt capable of giving him more than a "no" at that moment. We should not have to explain to someone why what they are asking is inappropriate, especially if that someone has not learned that rather important lesson by his age.
You should definitely run crying to the store manager. All I'm seeing is passive aggressive bull*****, on both sides.
edit - also, you claim to have aspergers - you know you're often labeled creepy behind your back because people don't want to engage with you? They only interpret what they see? So I find this all very rich.
Quacker, it must be nice to have all the social answers on a Rolodex in your head ready to use at a moments notice. My wife and I both have Asperger's, and neither of us felt capable of giving him more than a "no" at that moment. We should not have to explain to someone why what they are asking is inappropriate, especially if that someone has not learned that rather important lesson by his age.
You should definitely run crying to the store manager. All I'm seeing is passive aggressive bull*****, on both sides.
edit - also, you claim to have aspergers - you know you're often labeled creepy behind your back because people don't want to engage with you? They only interpret what they see? So I find this all very rich.
Wow, I've seen some untactful posts on the forums, but that has to be one of the least tactful posts I've ever read. Was it worth it to personally insult two people coming here for help who can't help that they have aspergers when you're already beside yourself in opinion on the matter? It's one thing to be aggressive and edgy because you think it's cool, but to say what you just said to them is just on a Donald Trump level of class.
Thank you everyone, especially Xeruh and AlecPyron. We would prefer to go to another store, but this is the closest one and its still 30 miles away, the next is almost 60 and has gone down the toilet in service quality since it was sold to a new owner.
Xeruh, I am not sure if his "generosity" seems to be more for females, as I have yet to see any other women playing magic when I go to draft on Fridays. Perhaps you are right and he meant nothing by it, for now I will just keep an eye out and see. I will try to avoid standard for now, since that is all I have seen him play, although if I see him making this same offer to any other women who come in to play, I will speak up to the store manager.
Quacker, it must be nice to have all the social answers on a Rolodex in your head ready to use at a moments notice. My wife and I both have Asperger's, and neither of us felt capable of giving him more than a "no" at that moment. We should not have to explain to someone why what they are asking is inappropriate, especially if that someone has not learned that rather important lesson by his age.
I will say that it's definitely not a guarantee that's what is going on, just that it's very easy for people to jump to negative conclusions when a more innocent answer is equally plausible. Others in the store should at least have an idea of his behavior if he's a regular, and it helps to form a better idea of what his likely motives are. I just think that there are lots of times that people do things that are socially awkward for the recipient without meaning it as such, and that a lot of people just lack awareness of that. If this is an issue though the store managers should have heard complaints before, it's only after you've talked to them that I think a better idea of what's going on can be formed. But I'm also very much an outsider to all of this, so feel free to ignore it as needed.
Quacker, it must be nice to have all the social answers on a Rolodex in your head ready to use at a moments notice. My wife and I both have Asperger's, and neither of us felt capable of giving him more than a "no" at that moment. We should not have to explain to someone why what they are asking is inappropriate, especially if that someone has not learned that rather important lesson by his age.
As someone who suffers from Asperger's, you should be more keenly aware of how it is for your most well-intentioned actions to be misconstrued because you lacked the understanding of social etiquette. (I'm not pointing blame - I have personality disorders that are effectively similar to Aspergers, so I understand what you mean here) This could well be the case for the person you are complaining about. Escalating the issue could come down to bad blood all around.
In any event - I think you handled it well, and you should consider Quacker's advice (from his first post - not the rude trolling in the 2nd post) for the next time the issue presents itself.
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As someone who suffers from Asperger's, you should be more keenly aware of how it is for your most well-intentioned actions to be misconstrued because you lacked the understanding of social etiquette. (I'm not pointing blame - I have personality disorders that are effectively similar to Aspergers, so I understand what you mean here) This could well be the case for the person you are complaining about. Escalating the issue could come down to bad blood all around.
In any event - I think you handled it well, and you should consider Quacker's advice (from his first post - not the rude trolling in the 2nd post) for the next time the issue presents itself.
We are aware of this also. This is why we decided to ask for people's opinion here first before taking any actions involving him/the store manager that could potentially cause more issues. And yes, we will avoid accepting anything from him in the future; if he had known it would lead to his sexist comments and asking me while she was standing next to me if he could come over at 11:30 at night to "help her with her deck", we would have avoided it in the first place.
Anyway, thank you everyone except for Quacker for your opinions. For now we will ask the manager if he has had more interactions with the guy and see if he knows more about him.
Seeing as this thread has started to cause some problems, would a mod be able to lock it before Quacker gets any more of his feathers in a bunch.
My wife went me with to play draft this Friday night. We are playing at a store that has now been open less than two months. There is an older man who has been a regular there since it opened, being chummy with everyone, including me and he knows my name, but I've yet to learn his. My wife was not planning to play standard after the draft, but this guy has been pestering everyone to play standard every time I've seen him there, and he decided to pay for my wife's standard entry so she could borrow a store deck. At this point we thought he was just being nice, I believe I have seen him give people a few cards they needed to play standard before.
He plays her in the third round and she ends up beating him twice with the under-powered store deck. He complains about being beaten by a girl, but immediately adds that he is joking. He then asks if she likes the store deck and offers to buy her a similar copy of it for her. Getting slightly creepy here...
Later he comes over to me and asks if he can come to our house and help her with her deck...getting very creepy now. If he offers this again I am going to be complaining to the store managers.
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I'm assuming that you aren't that close to anyone from that store, so I'd consider this option. You may return to the store much much later (like going once every two months or so) if you really feel like it.
How about you ask him point blank his name. If you're playing DCI sanctioned events, he gave a name to the shop.
How about you don't let him pay for your wife to do things in the future. I don't know why you agreed to that one. If you felt that it was creepy only in retrospect, that's when you give the old guy the $5 or whatever it was to pay for your wife and tell him to **** off about it. For all we know, this old guy is just really socially awkward and you're just geeking out over nothing. People who want to help people with decks usually mean well, but some of them seem to have a short circuit or two. But that's ok, you don't have to be super friends with everyone at the shop. Draw some lines or go somewhere else.
Xeruh, I am not sure if his "generosity" seems to be more for females, as I have yet to see any other women playing magic when I go to draft on Fridays. Perhaps you are right and he meant nothing by it, for now I will just keep an eye out and see. I will try to avoid standard for now, since that is all I have seen him play, although if I see him making this same offer to any other women who come in to play, I will speak up to the store manager.
Quacker, it must be nice to have all the social answers on a Rolodex in your head ready to use at a moments notice. My wife and I both have Asperger's, and neither of us felt capable of giving him more than a "no" at that moment. We should not have to explain to someone why what they are asking is inappropriate, especially if that someone has not learned that rather important lesson by his age.
He probably just wants more players at the FNM and is willing to sacrifice some money to have that. It is pretty odd if he is only offering to help girls. Perhaps he thinks that it will be tougher to convince them to continue to play? I could see that point of view.
In the end, I would probably just make some excuse as to why it wouldn't be a good idea for him to come over. Your house is "really messy" and there are things all over. Even if it's okay with him to come to that situation, you wouldn't feel comfortable with that. That may be the best to try to avoid bad feelings. If you don't care about bad feelings, I would just say that he's not welcome. It sounds odd to lie to him for the sake of being "less rude," but it is actually a pretty important skill to have in this life time. , but really it is.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I cannot obvioulsy read his mind, the idea hes making behind it...
Most probable that hes feeling lonely toward women, especially in this type of environnement, and he found out that he could make a connection with one
Wether its clean or dirty is up to be determined
You should just have a chat with your wife how she feels about it.....not a confrontation, a chat...basically what you've wrote so far, your assesment of the situation
And obvisouly no would be the answer of inviting him to your house
From what you said, I take him as a socially awkward individual that finds comfort in helping others and feels like he is contributing, something I gather he does not get outside of cards. He might be taking to your wife because it is female positive attention. That does not mean he into your wife, but rather getting positive attention from the opposite sex might be something he is really enjoying. It could easily lead somewhere dangerous, so to be careful and set very clear boundaries.
All and all, it is likely he is just a socially awkward nice guy, but protect yourself because even if he has the best of intentions, things could get dark very easily. To sum it up, talk to the staff at the store he goes to and let them talk to him. You should not talk to him about that because you do not know how he will react.
@Rai Kerensky, thank you for the constructive post. We did think he was just being helpful at first, seeing as it is a new store. We will see what the staff thinks, perhaps they have had other comments regarding him before.
If this was a normal person, yes, talking to them directly could be fine. However, it is unclear if this a person with a normal mindset and is most likely socially awkward, and it could easily lead to things becoming bad for either side and it would be better if there was an impartial side to talk to other man as to best avoid creating a conflict between the two parties. Also, I am not quite sure how Europeans react in general, but in the United States, it is not out of question for this person to blow up and go violent. I understand your point about it coming off as rude and a personal insult, but in the interest of safety for both parties, it is best for a third party to handle this.
You should definitely run crying to the store manager. All I'm seeing is passive aggressive bull*****, on both sides.
edit - also, you claim to have aspergers - you know you're often labeled creepy behind your back because people don't want to engage with you? They only interpret what they see? So I find this all very rich.
Wow, I've seen some untactful posts on the forums, but that has to be one of the least tactful posts I've ever read. Was it worth it to personally insult two people coming here for help who can't help that they have aspergers when you're already beside yourself in opinion on the matter? It's one thing to be aggressive and edgy because you think it's cool, but to say what you just said to them is just on a Donald Trump level of class.
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I will say that it's definitely not a guarantee that's what is going on, just that it's very easy for people to jump to negative conclusions when a more innocent answer is equally plausible. Others in the store should at least have an idea of his behavior if he's a regular, and it helps to form a better idea of what his likely motives are. I just think that there are lots of times that people do things that are socially awkward for the recipient without meaning it as such, and that a lot of people just lack awareness of that. If this is an issue though the store managers should have heard complaints before, it's only after you've talked to them that I think a better idea of what's going on can be formed. But I'm also very much an outsider to all of this, so feel free to ignore it as needed.
As someone who suffers from Asperger's, you should be more keenly aware of how it is for your most well-intentioned actions to be misconstrued because you lacked the understanding of social etiquette. (I'm not pointing blame - I have personality disorders that are effectively similar to Aspergers, so I understand what you mean here) This could well be the case for the person you are complaining about. Escalating the issue could come down to bad blood all around.
In any event - I think you handled it well, and you should consider Quacker's advice (from his first post - not the rude trolling in the 2nd post) for the next time the issue presents itself.
We are aware of this also. This is why we decided to ask for people's opinion here first before taking any actions involving him/the store manager that could potentially cause more issues. And yes, we will avoid accepting anything from him in the future; if he had known it would lead to his sexist comments and asking me while she was standing next to me if he could come over at 11:30 at night to "help her with her deck", we would have avoided it in the first place.
Anyway, thank you everyone except for Quacker for your opinions. For now we will ask the manager if he has had more interactions with the guy and see if he knows more about him.
Seeing as this thread has started to cause some problems, would a mod be able to lock it before Quacker gets any more of his feathers in a bunch.