Why is Vexing Devil priced so high, despite people saying the card sucks?
The Devil is priced high for several reasons:
Avacyn Restored wasn't drafted/opened as heavily as the previous two sets, so copies of the card are harder to find.
Since its release there have been no reprints of this card, which again makes the card harder to find. Prices rise.
The Devil has a high Casual appeal, being much cheaper than cards like Goblin Guide, which raises its price tag due to demand.
The Devil has enough power behind it to make it an excellent choice in Burn decks, and has been one of the hottest debated cards for Burn archetypes since it was released. *No pun intended!
These are the core reasons why the Devil has such a high price point.
These have been told to OP but he still doesn't believe it. Maybe it has more ground from someone like you that shares the same opinions on Vexing Devil's power.
These have been told to OP but he still doesn't believe it. Maybe it has more ground from someone like you that shares the same opinions on Vexing Devil's power.
Cheers!
Since it was released the Devil has been highly debated in Burn decks right, left and center. Even just a casual browsing of Legacy, Vintage, and Modern primers on Burn/Sligh archetypes right here on MTGS will show anyone that lots of people consider the card valid for Burn/Sligh archetypes. Heck it even gets nods now and then as a candidate in Zoo decks.
Just because some people don't feel that the card is acceptable or powerful enough for those archetypes doesn't make it so. I'll always play a set of Goblin Guide over a Vexing Devil myself, but I'm never not happy to see one if I do. Of course, I'm more than happy to switch out my Devil for Dragon's Claw against mirror match-ups and Ensnaring Bridge against creature-heavy meta. I like the Devil, certainly, but I consider it a rotating slot that I can configure my sideboard around.
Haters are going to hate. Players are going to play. The Devil brings out both, simultaneously.
There might be someone out there speculating on it since it's the most Phyrexian Dreadnoughtish creature allowed in Modern for any future card that combos with a Phyrexian Dreadnought type card (Close second to Ingot Chewer, who could go in the same hypothetical deck). "whenever a creature ETBS, it fights a creature you don't control." "Creatures don't trigger ETBS until end of turn." A more aggressively costed take on Jwar Isle Shapeshifter, possibly
Vexing Devil is a victim of one of the great bigotries of MTG:
"Cards that give your opponent choices are ALWAYS bad!"
You will see this in every discussion of every card that gives the opponent any kind of choice. Search around, you'll see. This kneejerk bigotry is so ingrained that WotC could print a land that says: "When ~ enters the battlefield target opponent choses one: You win the game, or he or she loses the game." And the bigot squad will still insist that the card sucks unconditionally.
In reality, any "opponent choice" card should be considered in the light of either choice being good for you. For Vexing Devil, 1 mana for 4 damage is crazy good in Modern. Modern is more than happy to play Boros Charm, for its 4 damage for RW. A 4/3 for 1 mana is also crazy good in Modern. Modern is more than happy to pay 1 mana for the likes of Goblin Guide or Monastery Swiftspear and those are much smaller, albeit with haste.
Another card I get into fights about on here constantly is Dash Hopes. Here again, 2 mana for an off-color counterspell is good in Modern. So is 5 damage for 2 mana.
The trick is, these kinds of cards should be applied with strategy. Vexing Devil doesn't work in just any deck, but it does work in a fast, low-to-the-ground red tempo deck. Dash Hopes also should never be considered a counterspell; instead, it should be treated as a burn spell you play when the opponent is already on the ropes, so that it's an agonizing decision whether to play their out and take the five or sacrifice their play when you're going to kill them in two turns anyway. I use Dash Hopes as a mind game. For instance, I'll play it against a Tarmogoyf, when I already have removal in my hand for it.
Now for a different example, Siren of the Fanged Coast. This is obviously a bad card; if your opponent has anything worth stealing they will of course choose to pay tribute, and then you have a Vanilla flying 4/4 for 5, worse than a Serra Angel. One key with evaluating opponent-choice cards is if you're really sweating that choice, it's not going to be a good card.
As for why Vexing Devil is so expensive, it's just one more of those impossibly priced cards that nobody plays, like Phyrexian Obliterator. Magic is just like that. There's likely investors sitting on stockpiles of it, the way they do with completely obscure cards you've never even heard of as reported every week on MTGStocks.com.
I felt as you did for many years. I ran Browbeat in my burn deck and laughed at anyone who said it wasn't really REALLY good in that deck. For over a decade.. Then, one day, I read this and I FINALLY understand the argument against punisher cards.
I still think they're really cool though.
I don't want to be the one who derails this thread into another intractable argument about Punisher cards. I'm just saying--they don't work out very well. Yes, even Browbeat and Vexing Devil. Read the article. If you still disagree, you probably didn't read closely enough--read it again, frankly. He settles it pretty nicely.
Specifically, the case of Vexing Devil, I imagine the only reason it sees any play anywhere (and is $10ish) is because the 1-drop you WISH you could run instead is $40+. If GG were remotely-affordable, VD would be $2-3 and that's a fact. No one would run it anywhere. VD is $10 because of simple economics and not its power level.
Vexing Devil is only good alongside a critical mass of board presence since where it shines (Burn) has virtual card advantage through invalidating the opponent's removal.
Playing it and no other creatures is a mistake. It's not even a good turn one play because it blanks if the opponent has removal up. It's a good play in burn when you have one to two creatures in play already, which is not impossible at all depending on the deck. Most decks run 4 GG, 4 Swiftspears, 4 Eidolons, and then the Devil isn't a bad choice.
EDIT: I also forgot about Grim Lavamancer. Understand that Lavamancer is actually a bad card in burn most of the time because it doesn't offer burn the virtual card advantage that the deck normally gets - this is the reason why most people shy away from it. The argument for Grim Lavamancer is actually the same argument for Vexing Devil. Do you have a critical mass of creatures? If so, the loss of virtual card advantage hurts less, and you can still win.
My unedited post had this content: It is possible to build decks with it where you want both things at most times. Browbeat loses in that regard since you don't always want both sides. Same with Dash Hopes. The two cards aren't powerful enough to compensate for the opponent's chance to choose.
EDITEDIT: Last edit here. I've read through the thread and I've settled on something. Vexing Devil is OK in Modern Burn (not legacy, which has Chain Lightining and Fireblast), and was playable in some builds back when Monastery Swiftspear wasn't a card it. Now that Monastery Swiftspear has been printed, it seems obsolete in that deck. There's a reason, however, that it's played in Zoo, it's because it enters a critical mass of board state, and its ability to pump E1 makes it so that it isn't necessarily outclassed by the roster of Zoo critters. However, I see this potentially changing soon enough. With enough similar cards, however, I could see it playing a part in an Athreos build.
the card isn't bad, it's just that there's better replacements. the printing of monastery swiftspear moved the card out of burn. i don't know why the card hasnt dropped to at least $5-ish but whatever.
How is Vexing Devil not an automatic four-of in Legacy burn? They take the burn, great- it's the most powerful one-mana burn spell in the game. They don't take the burn, that's cool too- that means they're either an idiot or have removal, which is a 1-1 trade on card advantage. Oh darn, I wasted a turn frying your ass to death while you wasted a turn killing my one-drop juggernaut and we're even on hand size.
Edit: if you're playing Legacy burn and your opponent has a survivable blocker up when you draw the Devil, you're either not playing the deck right or are very unlucky regarding which deck you're playing against.
Son of Edit: okay, you soundly beat me by main-decking a Circle of Protection: Red. Good game. Let me just sideboard in Larry Niven's disc.
How is Vexing Devil not an automatic four-of in Legacy burn? They take the burn, great- it's the most powerful one-mana burn spell in the game. They don't take the burn, that's cool too- that means they're either an idiot or have removal, which is a 1-1 trade on card advantage. Oh darn, I wasted a turn frying your ass to death while you wasted a turn killing my one-drop juggernaut and we're even on hand size.
Edit: if you're playing Legacy burn and your opponent has a survivable blocker up when you draw the Devil, you're either not playing the deck right or are very unlucky regarding which deck you're playing against.
Son of Edit: okay, you soundly beat me by main-decking a Circle of Protection: Red. Good game. Let me just sideboard in Larry Niven's disc.
Burn absolutely does not want to be trading 1 for 1 without getting some damage through. This is the worst case scenario of Devil that makes him a risky choice for Burn. You've allowed your opponent to use their removal effectively and move to the next turn without taking damage, allowing them the opportunity to leverage the rest of their hand.
How is Vexing Devil not an automatic four-of in Legacy burn? They take the burn, great- it's the most powerful one-mana burn spell in the game. They don't take the burn, that's cool too- that means they're either an idiot or have removal, which is a 1-1 trade on card advantage. Oh darn, I wasted a turn frying your ass to death while you wasted a turn killing my one-drop juggernaut and we're even on hand size.
Edit: if you're playing Legacy burn and your opponent has a survivable blocker up when you draw the Devil, you're either not playing the deck right or are very unlucky regarding which deck you're playing against.
Son of Edit: okay, you soundly beat me by main-decking a Circle of Protection: Red. Good game. Let me just sideboard in Larry Niven's disc.
He was actually fine until Eidolon of the Great Revel and Monastery Swiftspear entered the card pool. They simply churn out same damage as the Devil, without the risk in getting removed before they do their job. One of the reason Burn is a good deck is that Burn has virtual card advantage against decks running creature removal; Legacy Burn used to thrive this way, as it played a minimum, or even no creatures, meaning that the opponent's removal were dead cards in their hand.
When Vexing Devil showed up, Modern Burn already had access to Goblin Guide, and with the Devil and Grim Lavamancer it was now reasonable to play creature spells, and so the Devil was relevant in some decks. If you played only spells beside the Devil, you would lose in that the opponent's removal became relevant, and you lose A LOT of tempo.
Currently, the card is cute, but simply outclassed; outclassed by cards that compete for spots in Legacy with stars such as Chain Lightning and Fireblast. That's how good the other cards are. The Devil is not a bad card; there simply are better options.
These have been told to OP but he still doesn't believe it. Maybe it has more ground from someone like you that shares the same opinions on Vexing Devil's power.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Since it was released the Devil has been highly debated in Burn decks right, left and center. Even just a casual browsing of Legacy, Vintage, and Modern primers on Burn/Sligh archetypes right here on MTGS will show anyone that lots of people consider the card valid for Burn/Sligh archetypes. Heck it even gets nods now and then as a candidate in Zoo decks.
Just because some people don't feel that the card is acceptable or powerful enough for those archetypes doesn't make it so. I'll always play a set of Goblin Guide over a Vexing Devil myself, but I'm never not happy to see one if I do. Of course, I'm more than happy to switch out my Devil for Dragon's Claw against mirror match-ups and Ensnaring Bridge against creature-heavy meta. I like the Devil, certainly, but I consider it a rotating slot that I can configure my sideboard around.
Haters are going to hate. Players are going to play. The Devil brings out both, simultaneously.
Vexing Devil is only good alongside a critical mass of board presence since where it shines (Burn) has virtual card advantage through invalidating the opponent's removal.
Playing it and no other creatures is a mistake. It's not even a good turn one play because it blanks if the opponent has removal up. It's a good play in burn when you have one to two creatures in play already, which is not impossible at all depending on the deck. Most decks run 4 GG, 4 Swiftspears, 4 Eidolons, and then the Devil isn't a bad choice.
EDIT: I also forgot about Grim Lavamancer. Understand that Lavamancer is actually a bad card in burn most of the time because it doesn't offer burn the virtual card advantage that the deck normally gets - this is the reason why most people shy away from it. The argument for Grim Lavamancer is actually the same argument for Vexing Devil. Do you have a critical mass of creatures? If so, the loss of virtual card advantage hurts less, and you can still win.
My unedited post had this content: It is possible to build decks with it where you want both things at most times. Browbeat loses in that regard since you don't always want both sides. Same with Dash Hopes. The two cards aren't powerful enough to compensate for the opponent's chance to choose.
EDITEDIT: Last edit here. I've read through the thread and I've settled on something. Vexing Devil is OK in Modern Burn (not legacy, which has Chain Lightining and Fireblast), and was playable in some builds back when Monastery Swiftspear wasn't a card it. Now that Monastery Swiftspear has been printed, it seems obsolete in that deck. There's a reason, however, that it's played in Zoo, it's because it enters a critical mass of board state, and its ability to pump E1 makes it so that it isn't necessarily outclassed by the roster of Zoo critters. However, I see this potentially changing soon enough. With enough similar cards, however, I could see it playing a part in an Athreos build.
Edit: if you're playing Legacy burn and your opponent has a survivable blocker up when you draw the Devil, you're either not playing the deck right or are very unlucky regarding which deck you're playing against.
Son of Edit: okay, you soundly beat me by main-decking a Circle of Protection: Red. Good game. Let me just sideboard in Larry Niven's disc.
Burn absolutely does not want to be trading 1 for 1 without getting some damage through. This is the worst case scenario of Devil that makes him a risky choice for Burn. You've allowed your opponent to use their removal effectively and move to the next turn without taking damage, allowing them the opportunity to leverage the rest of their hand.
He was actually fine until Eidolon of the Great Revel and Monastery Swiftspear entered the card pool. They simply churn out same damage as the Devil, without the risk in getting removed before they do their job. One of the reason Burn is a good deck is that Burn has virtual card advantage against decks running creature removal; Legacy Burn used to thrive this way, as it played a minimum, or even no creatures, meaning that the opponent's removal were dead cards in their hand.
When Vexing Devil showed up, Modern Burn already had access to Goblin Guide, and with the Devil and Grim Lavamancer it was now reasonable to play creature spells, and so the Devil was relevant in some decks. If you played only spells beside the Devil, you would lose in that the opponent's removal became relevant, and you lose A LOT of tempo.
Currently, the card is cute, but simply outclassed; outclassed by cards that compete for spots in Legacy with stars such as Chain Lightning and Fireblast. That's how good the other cards are. The Devil is not a bad card; there simply are better options.
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