Is anyone else is disappointed about Shadows Over Innistrad as I am? When they broke the news about this set I got excited. It was dark, gloomy, scary, and overall just pretty cool. I was expecting Angels, zombies, demons, clerics, and some sweet skeletons. I was particularly excited for the cleric. I expected this set to be an orgy of drunken and debauched corrupted religious figures, they even spoiled a couple of clerics. Instead of the Resurgence of clerics that I expected we got a flood of werewolves,angels, and zombies. The zombies was to be expected, Wizards has been riding the zombie train since Magics inxeption. Werewolves I've never been a fan of but there you go werewolf fan boys. And angels were also expected.
Overall, I think this set is a complete failure of the potential it contained. 5 clerics in the set ( of which only 2 are really any good)? A slap in the face. And such a paltry showing of demons and skeletons in such a dark set is abysmal.
Tl;Dr Where are all the clerics? Kill the werewolves and bring in some skeles and demons.... What a waste
While I was also disappointed in SoI, albeit for different reasons, did you not play the original Innistrad? They used the same tribes in about the same mixture. I agree they need to do a set with a lot of clerics. It would probably be a new world though, unless they return to whichever world Onslaught, Scurage and Legions came from..(Domaria?)
Yea i played Innistrad;I've been playing magic since ravnica first hit ( though I've got cards back to alpha) I just think this set was shoddy. Plus blue as a whole was pretty bad except thing in the ice in my opinion
Drunken cleric party is not what comes to mind when most people think of Innistrad. They got everything and more right. Werewolves are back and arguably much stronger. The gothic horror theme is there in force and the limited play is simply amazing to be honest and the set has excellent flavor.
I respectfully disagree. If you criticize a set as a whole because of the lack of one creature type, overshadowing the overall awesomeness of it and its strategic complexity in limited plus the fact that the raw power level of the cards is vastly superior to BFZ/OGW, I can only think that your reasoning is partial to something and not objective, since I think SOI is a really well-made set.
Also, Clerics can be done on every plane (we just had Ayli), but Werewolves and, to some extent, Angels, cannot.
I'm being objective. I don't think that only one creature type got boned. Demons and skeles were even less though of and as I stated blue was pretty bad thus set
i think the demand for werewolves, zombies and vampires is as transparent as a window. expecting for some resurgence of clerics is like expecting return to kamigawa next year
Drunken cleric party is not what comes to mind when most people think of Innistrad. They got everything and more right. Werewolves are back and arguably much stronger. The gothic horror theme is there in force and the limited play is simply amazing to be honest and the set has excellent flavor.
By rights I think the original needed more clerics it perfectly fits the theme
I'm not disappointed but I find the draft environment super though. Removal is not common at all, so you'll sometimes just die to bombs, Spiteful Motives or Gryff's Boon without any good answer.
Drunken cleric party is not what comes to mind when most people think of Innistrad. They got everything and more right. Werewolves are back and arguably much stronger. The gothic horror theme is there in force and the limited play is simply amazing to be honest and the set has excellent flavor.
By rights I think the original needed more clerics it perfectly fits the theme
Yes it would have fit the theme but it would have also edged something more relevant out. There is only so much room in the set and this plane has established allied colored tribes that people expect from it. To make room for a enemy color pair would have taken space from four other tribes and left the G/R tribe untouched.
I'm not saying there needed to be 50 clerics, but more than 5 is definitely in order for a tribe that has been neglected for years. It's a missed opportunity imo
"This set sucks because the creature types match the lore of the plane"
Really? You have zombies and vampires as main story elements both taking up space in black, and 1/5th of the white creatures in the set are clerics. Considering there are Soldier, Spirit and Angel themes, that's pretty good lip service.
"This set sucks because the creature types match the lore of the plane"
I never once said this.
Werewolves are to plentiful at the expense of the rest of the set
Blue is lack luster
Even spirits aren't all that good this set
I'm just here with an opinion ya'll
Werewolves are not over represented and to be honest they play much better this time around than original innistrad. Blue has some great tools, are you only saying it is lackluster because there are no cheap hard counter spells?
I am honestly not sure this is even the right setting to support full cleric tribal. I feel it doesn't quite mesh into gothic horror outside of cult leaders and you can only do so much with cult leaders. Honestly cleric seems more like a leadership role than a mass rank, how many can you really have before it starts to feel saturated?
The set sucks in terms of constructed fun cards, compared to the old Innistrad
Huge dissapointment
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Modern:
Affinity
Naya Burn
Merfolk
White Blue Midrange
Boggles
Grixis Delver
Esper Control(It's semi playable, believe it or not! Dont bring it to a tourny you care about winning though)
The original Innistrad had two demons and seven clerics. The entire block only had two skeletons.
In the original Innistrad block, there were 17 total clerics, with only the three legends and maybe two others worth a second look. It had 3-4 good demons, and neither skeleton was interesting. People love to get up in arms over their impressions of previous sets, instead of the reality. Tarkir didn't have enough dragons for some, despite it literally doubling the number of dragons in the game.
I, personally, think they did a great job with this set. Yeah, removal seems to being getting the shaft lately outside of rare but the limited environment is a blast as it provides a lot of options. Yes, blue isn't great this time around outside of a few cards (Thing in the Ice and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, the latter being largely overshadowed by his Origins version) but you can't expect every color to rock solid every time. White, Red, and Black seemed to get the most love in this set, which I'm okay with. About my only complaint is the lack of legendary werewolf, but that could be in Eldritch Moon.
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I feel the opposite as the OP. I think SOI is probably the best set since the original Innistrad, and it may be even better. It's just so well executed, crammed with good ideas and dripping with flavor.
But clerics? Who cares? Seriously, what a non-complaint. Cleric tribal hasn't been a thing since...maybe Onslaught block? I'm not sure where the OP got the impression that SOI was going to usher in their grand return. Werewolves are intrinsic to Innistrad's identity, which means they had to come back. Not only that, but these werewolves are pretty sweet. Not liking SOI is obviously fine; differing opinions make for great discussions. I just find the reasoning exceedingly strange.
Other folks have brought up blue's weakness, which seems like a legitimate complaint. I haven't really looked too deeply so I can't comment on that. I have drafted a couple of decks using blue so far and they did pretty well.
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The original Innistrad had two demons and seven clerics. The entire block only had two skeletons.
In the original Innistrad block, there were 17 total clerics, with only the three legends and maybe two others worth a second look. It had 3-4 good demons, and neither skeleton was interesting. People love to get up in arms over their impressions of previous sets, instead of the reality. Tarkir didn't have enough dragons for some, despite it literally doubling the number of dragons in the game.
We have a whole other set coming.
I already stated that I don't think the original innistrad didn't have enough clerics so im based in reality there...... however, I really didn't look at the rest of the block so you've got me on that bit
The absence of Clerics turns this set into a disappointment for you? I can't tell whether this thread is a joke or if you're high.
First of all I've said many times that there are several things I believe are wrong with this set. Or did you not read the thread? Second, personal assessments of my thought process or intake of substances are not warranted in your response...... But for the record... no im neither joking or high (though your name is interesting I must say....)..... happy now?
I have no problem with the creature types and tribal elements in the set. The artwork is great (with exceptions, obviously) as well. What disappoints me is the complete and utter lack of modern reprints as well as the lack of modern playables.
I'm not disappointed but I find the draft environment super though. Removal is not common at all, so you'll sometimes just die to bombs, Spiteful Motives or Gryff's Boon without any good answer.
Green 1 common, 1 uncommon Rabid Bite - Green removal spell at common that doesn't involve the word 'fight' Moonlight Hunt - Nissa's Judgment for 2 mana, but with wolves instead of counters. Not the greatest, but it's easy to build wolves/werewolves, and two creatures will usually kill anything.
That's 13 removal spells at common and 12 at uncommon. That' not counting all the tempo spells/creatures(expose evil), or the combat tricks - which I believe will play a huge role in this limited environment.
My draft this week was a 6 man pod with 4 people drafting black. And we all still had 3-4 removal spells. Pretty sure things will work out. This set just rewards synergy a lot more than other. Having a cheap discard outlet turns murderous compulsion into instant speed assassinate, fiery temper into lighting bolt, just the wind into unsummon.
The original Innistrad had two demons and seven clerics. The entire block only had two skeletons.
In the original Innistrad block, there were 17 total clerics, with only the three legends and maybe two others worth a second look. It had 3-4 good demons, and neither skeleton was interesting. People love to get up in arms over their impressions of previous sets, instead of the reality. Tarkir didn't have enough dragons for some, despite it literally doubling the number of dragons in the game.
We have a whole other set coming.
I already stated that I don't think the original innistrad didn't have enough clerics so im based in reality there...... however, I really didn't look at the rest of the block so you've got me on that bit
The absence of Clerics turns this set into a disappointment for you? I can't tell whether this thread is a joke or if you're high.
First of all I've said many times that there are several things I believe are wrong with this set. Or did you not read the thread? Second, personal assessments of my thought process or intake of substances are not warranted in your response...... But for the record... no im neither joking or high (though your name is interesting I must say....)..... happy now?
No, you didn't say "many times" that this set had other problems. You said it once, and it still hinged on the original point you made that you think this set is bad because you didn't get the amount of love for the creature type you wanted. I thought this thread was a joke, in all honesty. I couldn't fathom somebody actually basing a legitimate complaint off of the fact they didn't get the creature type they wanted, unless it was the Legendary Werewolf we all desperately want.
I wouldn't be anywhere near as excited for this set of it were in your vision, over what it actually is. I see no need for Skeletons, they don't even have a place in the story. Demons, obviously, aren't as prevalent after Avacyn emerged the Helvault. Clerics aren't being committed to, and rightly so, because what is there to worship? The savior of man kind has gone mad and has started killing them, outside of Westvale Abbey, there shouldn't be an abundance of clerics and clergy.
Really not trying to sound condescending, but you know there is an actual story to be told here, right? And that they tell these stories on the card-board pieces?
Edit- There is also a second set that has yet to be revealed. Depending on the story, that is where you will probably find the clerics. Still doubting skeletons make any sort of impactful appearance, but Demons should also show up as well without an angelic protector. This all depends on who the big bad is, really.
Overall, I think this set is a complete failure of the potential it contained. 5 clerics in the set ( of which only 2 are really any good)? A slap in the face. And such a paltry showing of demons and skeletons in such a dark set is abysmal.
Tl;Dr Where are all the clerics? Kill the werewolves and bring in some skeles and demons.... What a waste
I'm being objective. I don't think that only one creature type got boned. Demons and skeles were even less though of and as I stated blue was pretty bad thus set
By rights I think the original needed more clerics it perfectly fits the theme
Really? You have zombies and vampires as main story elements both taking up space in black, and 1/5th of the white creatures in the set are clerics. Considering there are Soldier, Spirit and Angel themes, that's pretty good lip service.
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I never once said this.
Werewolves are to plentiful at the expense of the rest of the set
Blue is lack luster
Even spirits aren't all that good this set
I'm just here with an opinion ya'll
I am honestly not sure this is even the right setting to support full cleric tribal. I feel it doesn't quite mesh into gothic horror outside of cult leaders and you can only do so much with cult leaders. Honestly cleric seems more like a leadership role than a mass rank, how many can you really have before it starts to feel saturated?
Huge dissapointment
Affinity
Naya Burn
Merfolk
White Blue Midrange
Boggles
Grixis Delver
Esper Control(It's semi playable, believe it or not! Dont bring it to a tourny you care about winning though)
Legacy:
Miracles
Deathblade
In the original Innistrad block, there were 17 total clerics, with only the three legends and maybe two others worth a second look. It had 3-4 good demons, and neither skeleton was interesting. People love to get up in arms over their impressions of previous sets, instead of the reality. Tarkir didn't have enough dragons for some, despite it literally doubling the number of dragons in the game.
We have a whole other set coming.
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Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
But clerics? Who cares? Seriously, what a non-complaint. Cleric tribal hasn't been a thing since...maybe Onslaught block? I'm not sure where the OP got the impression that SOI was going to usher in their grand return. Werewolves are intrinsic to Innistrad's identity, which means they had to come back. Not only that, but these werewolves are pretty sweet. Not liking SOI is obviously fine; differing opinions make for great discussions. I just find the reasoning exceedingly strange.
Other folks have brought up blue's weakness, which seems like a legitimate complaint. I haven't really looked too deeply so I can't comment on that. I have drafted a couple of decks using blue so far and they did pretty well.
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I already stated that I don't think the original innistrad didn't have enough clerics so im based in reality there...... however, I really didn't look at the rest of the block so you've got me on that bit
First of all I've said many times that there are several things I believe are wrong with this set. Or did you not read the thread? Second, personal assessments of my thought process or intake of substances are not warranted in your response...... But for the record... no im neither joking or high (though your name is interesting I must say....)..... happy now?
There is plenty of removal. The removal may not be as good as it was in other sets, but there's plenty of it.
White - 2 common/ 4 uncommon
puncturing light, Angelic Purge at common
Bound by Moonsilver, Humble the Brute, Silverstrike, Avacynian Missionaries/Lunarch Inquisitors
Blue - 3 common/ 1 uncommon
Just the wind, Gone Missing, Sleep Paralysis - all at common
Compelling Deterence - only one at uncommon
Black - 4 common/ 3 uncommon
Dead Weight, Murderous Compulsion, Rancid Rats, and Throttle - all at common
sinister concoction, Kindly Stranger/Demon-Possessed witch, Biting Rain
Red has 3 common, 3 uncommon
Fiery Temper, Burn to Ashes, Dual shot at common
Lightning axe, Inner Struggle, and geistblast at uncommon
Green 1 common, 1 uncommon
Rabid Bite - Green removal spell at common that doesn't involve the word 'fight'
Moonlight Hunt - Nissa's Judgment for 2 mana, but with wolves instead of counters. Not the greatest, but it's easy to build wolves/werewolves, and two creatures will usually kill anything.
That's 13 removal spells at common and 12 at uncommon. That' not counting all the tempo spells/creatures(expose evil), or the combat tricks - which I believe will play a huge role in this limited environment.
My draft this week was a 6 man pod with 4 people drafting black. And we all still had 3-4 removal spells. Pretty sure things will work out. This set just rewards synergy a lot more than other. Having a cheap discard outlet turns murderous compulsion into instant speed assassinate, fiery temper into lighting bolt, just the wind into unsummon.
No, you didn't say "many times" that this set had other problems. You said it once, and it still hinged on the original point you made that you think this set is bad because you didn't get the amount of love for the creature type you wanted. I thought this thread was a joke, in all honesty. I couldn't fathom somebody actually basing a legitimate complaint off of the fact they didn't get the creature type they wanted, unless it was the Legendary Werewolf we all desperately want.
I wouldn't be anywhere near as excited for this set of it were in your vision, over what it actually is. I see no need for Skeletons, they don't even have a place in the story. Demons, obviously, aren't as prevalent after Avacyn emerged the Helvault. Clerics aren't being committed to, and rightly so, because what is there to worship? The savior of man kind has gone mad and has started killing them, outside of Westvale Abbey, there shouldn't be an abundance of clerics and clergy.
Really not trying to sound condescending, but you know there is an actual story to be told here, right? And that they tell these stories on the card-board pieces?
Edit- There is also a second set that has yet to be revealed. Depending on the story, that is where you will probably find the clerics. Still doubting skeletons make any sort of impactful appearance, but Demons should also show up as well without an angelic protector. This all depends on who the big bad is, really.