So, I’m playing in an event at my LGS. The format is half BFZ/Oath draft and half Modern. I’ve been playing Magic for a decently long time, but rarely draft and have never drafted with either BFZ or Oath before. At the beginning of the event the judge at the store makes no mention of how to handle Expeditions. In my second pack of Oath - I crack an Expedition Mystic Gate and take an additional card from my pack under the impression that the expeditions were special inserts and not draftable. 4 passes later the discrepancy is noticed. I notify the judge that the discrepancy was not likely caused by me with the expedition. Store Judge picks up my Mystic Gate because it was a known first pick and gives it to the 5 player in the pool. I had zero recourse and to be perfectly honest - I would’ve just dropped from the event on the spot, took my Mystic Gate and went home.
I talked to two L2 Judges that I trust about this incident and they basically told me that it was a dirtbag judge decision and that if they were me - wouldn’t play at that store anymore.
Thoughts? What would you guys do to rectify this situation? I am already planning on speaking with the Store Owner this week.
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Why would you not just ask instead of assuming? That could have solved this whole situation. It's pretty crappy of the judge, but at the same time you aren't blameless.
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i mean, you messed up there. but every draft ive done with bfz and oath the judges explained that before it started.
you definitely should have had the option to just take your cards and leave. maybe even forced to do that.
this giving something to a different player thing sounds like bull*****.
I definitely respect the fact that I'm not blameless and in hindsight should have asked about the policy in handling expeditions. I am just totally infuriated that this judge takes a card that I open and gives it to another player and leaves me no recourse. Especially when two L2 Judges tell me later that it was a complete scumbag move on the part of the judge and the store.
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Why did the card specifically go to the fifth player?
It's a dick move by the store (possibly also against some kind of rules too), but you were in the wrong. Don't take two cards when you're supposed to be drafting one, my guy.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
Why did the card specifically go to the fifth player?
It's a dick move by the store (possibly also against some kind of rules too), but you were in the wrong. Don't take two cards when you're supposed to be drafting one, my guy.
How was he supposed to know if he hadn't drafted the set before? The person who runs the store at my LGS makes a point before each draft to ask if anybody is new and, on multiple occasions, has had to reiterate the "expedition" clause. If you drafted original Zendikar back in the day and opened a "priceless treasure" then it was yours, permanently, and were able to take a second card from the pack. Sounds like the scumbag judge chose to give it to a friend of his, who happened to be the 5th player in that draft.
If you drafted original Zendikar back in the day and opened a "priceless treasure" then it was yours, permanently, and were able to take a second card from the pack
That was actually a thing? I thought they were a rumor someone made up.
I started drafting around Innistrad, every draft format I've played has followed the rule of "remove token and WUBRG Basic Land then draft every other card".
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
If you drafted original Zendikar back in the day and opened a "priceless treasure" then it was yours, permanently, and were able to take a second card from the pack
That was actually a thing? I thought they were a rumor someone made up.
I started drafting around Innistrad, every draft format I've played has followed the rule of "remove token and WUBRG Basic Land then draft every other card".
They were definitely a thing. However, they were not legal in the limited formats, so they were handled differently. I can't remember if they replaced a common or not.
You're right that removing the token and basic land is the norm, but Expeditions don't take up the token or basic land slot, as they occupy the same slot a mythic rare would.
Since Expeditions are playable, getting them for free in a draft means you'll end up with more cards in your pool than anyone else at the end of the draft, which would be pretty unfair.
Report the store, report the judge, and ask Wizards if you can get a replacement.
Not only that, call the police. What happened is theft, plain and simple. You took the gate in the draft, so legally it's yours. The judge had zero right to take it from you even in the event of a mistake in drafting.
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Under the rules, you had two options: drop from the draft and keep the Gate or accept the penalty and forfeit the Gate. By giving him the Gate, your nonverbal communication, by not protesting the judge taking the card, suggested that you wanted to keep playing. This is kind of problematic because you didn't explicitly consent to it, but drafts are not such a matter of grave seriousness to require explicit consent.
If you DID explicitly protest the judge taking the card and he took it anyway, he committed theft and you can call the police.
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Is that even the standard practice for when you discover someone has taken two picks from one pack in a draft? Can a judge weigh in? Say it was a normal pack and there was a foil stuck to the back of the rare and I took both, and it got noticed 5 picks later - would you just put the foil back in the pack? Make the me forfeit the draft?
Is that even the standard practice for when you discover someone has taken two picks from one pack in a draft? Can a judge weigh in? Say it was a normal pack and there was a foil stuck to the back of the rare and I took both, and it got noticed 5 picks later - would you just put the foil back in the pack? Make the me forfeit the draft?
IANAJ, but reading from the Infraction Proceedure Guide.
I think it's just Tournament Error - Limited Proceedure Violation.
Even if the judge believed it was intentional cheating, seizing the Expedition is not acceptable conduct here. (The correct remedy there would be disqualification and a report to the DCI, with you keeping the already drafted cards, the sealed pack, and the cards you were selecting from).
It could be construed as Unsporting Conduct - Theft of Tournament Materials but again, that requires intent.
OP should definitely tell Wizards their side of the story.
Also worth taking note here that your contact with Wizards should clarify whether you believe the 5th player was in the wrong or not. If they are personal friends with the store employee handling it, that's relevant information. It doesn't sound like there was anything intentionally fishy here.
Talk to the store owner first and explain the situation. If you dislike his response: report the Judge, report the Store and make it clear on Social Media to your local players at what store this happened at. You could even contact WOTC Customer Service directly (and/or the DCI directly) and make sure this Judge isn't lost in the cracks (IE, favoritism).
I talked to two L2 Judges that I trust about this incident and they basically told me that it was a dirtbag judge decision and that if they were me - wouldn’t play at that store anymore.
Thoughts? What would you guys do to rectify this situation? I am already planning on speaking with the Store Owner this week.
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you definitely should have had the option to just take your cards and leave. maybe even forced to do that.
this giving something to a different player thing sounds like bull*****.
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It's a dick move by the store (possibly also against some kind of rules too), but you were in the wrong. Don't take two cards when you're supposed to be drafting one, my guy.
Art is life itself.
How was he supposed to know if he hadn't drafted the set before? The person who runs the store at my LGS makes a point before each draft to ask if anybody is new and, on multiple occasions, has had to reiterate the "expedition" clause. If you drafted original Zendikar back in the day and opened a "priceless treasure" then it was yours, permanently, and were able to take a second card from the pack. Sounds like the scumbag judge chose to give it to a friend of his, who happened to be the 5th player in that draft.
Signature courtesy of Rivenor and Miraculous Recovery
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My Pauper Cube
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GWR Rith, the Awakener RWG
U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
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Under Construction:
UBR Crosis, the Purger RBU
Cube:
WUBRGX Pauper XGRBUW
I started drafting around Innistrad, every draft format I've played has followed the rule of "remove token and WUBRG Basic Land then draft every other card".
Art is life itself.
They were definitely a thing. However, they were not legal in the limited formats, so they were handled differently. I can't remember if they replaced a common or not.
You're right that removing the token and basic land is the norm, but Expeditions don't take up the token or basic land slot, as they occupy the same slot a mythic rare would.
Since Expeditions are playable, getting them for free in a draft means you'll end up with more cards in your pool than anyone else at the end of the draft, which would be pretty unfair.
Art is life itself.
Not only that, call the police. What happened is theft, plain and simple. You took the gate in the draft, so legally it's yours. The judge had zero right to take it from you even in the event of a mistake in drafting.
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If you DID explicitly protest the judge taking the card and he took it anyway, he committed theft and you can call the police.
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IANAJ, but reading from the Infraction Proceedure Guide.
I think it's just Tournament Error - Limited Proceedure Violation.
Even if the judge believed it was intentional cheating, seizing the Expedition is not acceptable conduct here. (The correct remedy there would be disqualification and a report to the DCI, with you keeping the already drafted cards, the sealed pack, and the cards you were selecting from).
It could be construed as Unsporting Conduct - Theft of Tournament Materials but again, that requires intent.
OP should definitely tell Wizards their side of the story.
Also worth taking note here that your contact with Wizards should clarify whether you believe the 5th player was in the wrong or not. If they are personal friends with the store employee handling it, that's relevant information. It doesn't sound like there was anything intentionally fishy here.
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