Ostensibly due to the leaks, but reading between the lines this is payback for things they may or may not have done, and for things they may or may not have known. I don't like that they're treating their high level judges like this and I don't like the way Wizards has been acting about this leak, nor their justifications for their actions. With each reaction from them, I want to support them less and less. That sanctimonious article from Trick really infuriated me, but this...
Personally I think that the decisions that Wizards has made about how to handle this leak is justified. A strong stance will discourage others in the future. (No its not going to stop every leak out there but it should discourage people nonetheless.)
Payback for things they may or may not have done?
Things they may not have known?
According to WotC, they investigated and it was for more than just the recent leaks - people have been leaking for a long time.
If they have evidence, why not suspend them?
I pose these questions (may be out of ignorance/lack of info):
Why would they give the cards to Judges in the first place?
Isn't it quite simple for one set up a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend to leak information. Once 5 or 6 people down the chain, wouldn't the backtracking get a bit muddled?
I find this information about the banning a bit disturbing. If any history has taught us anything in regards to "leaks" (whether on purpose or snuck out), they help sells product, not hurt sales- the hype has always made others drool more (unless they are afraid of online harsh judgement, but that's just finding an excuse and being yellow). To dole out harsh judgement based on principle feels like abuse of power.
I hope the judges take WotC to court; reading other's comments briefly on the Reddit pages, sounds like there is no solid evidence of being harmed/defamed.
Why would they give the cards to Judges in the first place?
They didn't. These judges somehow got access to the cards and passed them along.
Isn't it quite simple for one set up a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend to leak information. Once 5 or 6 people down the chain, wouldn't the backtracking get a bit muddled?
Not really. That's what investigations are for.
I find this information about the banning a bit disturbing. If any history has taught us, creating help sells product, not hurt sales. To dole out harsh judgement based on principle feels like abuse of power.
You don't feel like the confusion around <> on this site alone and the arguments that spun off from that hurt the way people look at the game?
Regardless, it's not up to you. Wizards can release information at Wizards' option. This was done without their consent.
I hope the judges take WotC to court; reading other's comments briefly on the Reddit pages, sounds like there is no solid evidence of being harmed/defamed.
There's literally no court case here. And WotC wouldn't make this move without some form of evidence that these judges did something wrong. They didn't just pick names out of a hat.
And WotC wouldn't make this move without some form of evidence that these judges did something wrong. They didn't just pick names out of a hat.
Yes and no. Of the SE Judges involved, the suspended players list shows one getting a 3 year suspension, another getting 2 years, and the rest just getting 3 months. That tells me only 2 people were actually doing the leaking. The rest must have been associated in a way such that they could have known about what was going on but didn't/couldn't stop it. The association must have been loose enough (and difficult enough to prove/disprove) that WotC decided to err on the side of "making an example" and get all of them in one blast.
Why are wizards so against leaks in the first place? Regardless of if they want to admit it the early leaks are, as others have mentioned, a sales plus to the prereleases. I understand that they do have a right to release when they want, but they should also understand leaks aren't as bad a thing as they make it out to be.
Even with only one side doing wrong I can't help but dislike the right side more.
As a player in the Southeast, I'm sure we'll be able to get along just fine without any judges now that literally everyone has been suspended. We'll just try to reach a compromise like the original '93 rulebook suggests during comp REL tournaments Keepo
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I can see this in two ways.
1. If the Judges had some involvement of a leak, then they should reap the consequences. The consequences are just a banning for several months, which doesn't seem too bad or like it was an overreaction.
2. Leaks are part of the spoilers and have been for as long as I remember. It doesn't even seem like a big deal anymore. But it still is against what Wizards stands for, so they have the ultimate choice in what to do regarding leaks.
*One thing I didn't like when reading the Reddit comments is the comparison to the Middle East or other foreign affairs. Not playing Magic for 3 months is VERY FAR from the equivalent of a life or death situation. I try to be impartial, but I actually take offense to those comments. (And I'm sorry I brought it up here as well.)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Sadly this punishes the community more than the individuals. All PPTQs in this area are having to be rescheduled or canceled as there are now no L2s in the area to Judge them. I'm having to step up and try to fill the shoes of my lost mentors, which will be difficult as it was always a time issue and less of a skill one.
We have a plethora of local gaming stores in the south east, each of them thriving with competitive communities. We are likely not going to have any PPTQ events for two seasons.
Sadly this punishes the community more than the individuals. All PPTQs in this area are having to be rescheduled or canceled as there are now no L2s in the area to Judge them. I'm having to step up and try to fill the shoes of my lost mentors, which will be difficult as it was always a time issue and less of a skill one.
We have a plethora of local gaming stores in the south east, each of them thriving with competitive communities. We are likely not going to have any PPTQ events for two seasons.
L1's can judge PPTQs in extraordinary circumstances. This certainly qualifies.
Sadly this punishes the community more than the individuals. All PPTQs in this area are having to be rescheduled or canceled as there are now no L2s in the area to Judge them. I'm having to step up and try to fill the shoes of my lost mentors, which will be difficult as it was always a time issue and less of a skill one.
We have a plethora of local gaming stores in the south east, each of them thriving with competitive communities. We are likely not going to have any PPTQ events for two seasons.
L1's can judge PPTQs in extraordinary circumstances. This certainly qualifies.
I'm aware, I meant by "fill the shoes" I'm going to have to start the path of becoming an L2.
We are likely not going to have any PPTQs for two seasons or have the cost increase to pay for Judges to travel out of state. It's going to impact the competitive community across two maybe three states.
well, this is certainly escalating very quickly. I'm not certain it's the right response, but it certainly is a response.
I'm going to hold off on passing a permanent judgement, but by immediate reaction is that having all the judges "go on strike" is a bit over the top.
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
What cuts both ways? People who are suspended for violating the rules versus people that when they get caught? Sure, that cuts both ways, in the same way that a chainsaw and a rusty butter knife both cut. 99.9% of the time when someone is suspended or punished for something, and they run to the internet proclaiming their innocence and victim status, they are absolutely full of *****. Are their mistaken suspensions? Sure. But not many. I'm I'm not terribly inclined to believe the person with a clear motive for lying vs. the organization with no incentive for fabrication.
Almost as shady as when WOTC gave a lifetime ban to a player when they found out that he'd had a "rape" conviction from over a decade earlier.
I got my ability to comment on posts from the MtG Facebook for bringing that up recently. Censorship ftl [/quote]
Wizards is a private company. They have no obligation to support or encourage free speech, nor to let anything remain on their official pages or to let everyone who wants to have their say.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3xrx12/several_se_judges_suspended_by_wotc/
Ostensibly due to the leaks, but reading between the lines this is payback for things they may or may not have done, and for things they may or may not have known. I don't like that they're treating their high level judges like this and I don't like the way Wizards has been acting about this leak, nor their justifications for their actions. With each reaction from them, I want to support them less and less. That sanctimonious article from Trick really infuriated me, but this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3xrtyv/most_of_the_l3_judges_in_the_southeast_us_region/cy7a3zf
Take that with a grain of salt. People lying on the internet to make themselves look better is hardly a new phenomenon.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
That cuts both ways.
Things they may not have known?
According to WotC, they investigated and it was for more than just the recent leaks - people have been leaking for a long time.
If they have evidence, why not suspend them?
I mean I haven't really spent much time looking into their response to the leaks so I'm no way as informed as I should be
Why would they give the cards to Judges in the first place?
Isn't it quite simple for one set up a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend to leak information. Once 5 or 6 people down the chain, wouldn't the backtracking get a bit muddled?
I find this information about the banning a bit disturbing. If any history has taught us anything in regards to "leaks" (whether on purpose or snuck out), they help sells product, not hurt sales- the hype has always made others drool more (unless they are afraid of online harsh judgement, but that's just finding an excuse and being yellow). To dole out harsh judgement based on principle feels like abuse of power.
I hope the judges take WotC to court; reading other's comments briefly on the Reddit pages, sounds like there is no solid evidence of being harmed/defamed.
They didn't. These judges somehow got access to the cards and passed them along.
Not really. That's what investigations are for.
You don't feel like the confusion around <> on this site alone and the arguments that spun off from that hurt the way people look at the game?
Regardless, it's not up to you. Wizards can release information at Wizards' option. This was done without their consent.
There's literally no court case here. And WotC wouldn't make this move without some form of evidence that these judges did something wrong. They didn't just pick names out of a hat.
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Even with only one side doing wrong I can't help but dislike the right side more.
My current trade binder.
"People most likely to cry "troll" are those who can't fathom holding a position for reasons unrelated to how they want to be perceived"
As a player in the Southeast, I'm sure we'll be able to get along just fine without any judges now that literally everyone has been suspended. We'll just try to reach a compromise like the original '93 rulebook suggests during comp REL tournaments Keepo
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
1. If the Judges had some involvement of a leak, then they should reap the consequences. The consequences are just a banning for several months, which doesn't seem too bad or like it was an overreaction.
2. Leaks are part of the spoilers and have been for as long as I remember. It doesn't even seem like a big deal anymore. But it still is against what Wizards stands for, so they have the ultimate choice in what to do regarding leaks.
*One thing I didn't like when reading the Reddit comments is the comparison to the Middle East or other foreign affairs. Not playing Magic for 3 months is VERY FAR from the equivalent of a life or death situation. I try to be impartial, but I actually take offense to those comments. (And I'm sorry I brought it up here as well.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)We have a plethora of local gaming stores in the south east, each of them thriving with competitive communities. We are likely not going to have any PPTQ events for two seasons.
I'm aware, I meant by "fill the shoes" I'm going to have to start the path of becoming an L2.
We are likely not going to have any PPTQs for two seasons or have the cost increase to pay for Judges to travel out of state. It's going to impact the competitive community across two maybe three states.
I got my ability to comment on posts from the MtG Facebook for bringing that up recently. Censorship ftl
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well, this is certainly escalating very quickly. I'm not certain it's the right response, but it certainly is a response.
I'm going to hold off on passing a permanent judgement, but by immediate reaction is that having all the judges "go on strike" is a bit over the top.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
What cuts both ways? People who are suspended for violating the rules versus people that when they get caught? Sure, that cuts both ways, in the same way that a chainsaw and a rusty butter knife both cut. 99.9% of the time when someone is suspended or punished for something, and they run to the internet proclaiming their innocence and victim status, they are absolutely full of *****. Are their mistaken suspensions? Sure. But not many. I'm I'm not terribly inclined to believe the person with a clear motive for lying vs. the organization with no incentive for fabrication.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I got my ability to comment on posts from the MtG Facebook for bringing that up recently. Censorship ftl [/quote]
Wizards is a private company. They have no obligation to support or encourage free speech, nor to let anything remain on their official pages or to let everyone who wants to have their say.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver