I don't hear self righteousness when you say good game. I hear self righteousness when you say others should accept "good game" regardless of circumstances or how you deliver the line. I personally don't tilt when people say anything to me but I can definitely see it in others and I can respect that. I have no issue saying "good luck in the next round" as opposed to good game. I don't see how my way is any less sportsman-like than yours, while also dodging around this tricky issue. But you want others to accept your way or be declared dicks. Ok.
Scenario: I beat you. Top 8 win and in. I point at you and say to my pal next to me, "I beat this guy 2-0 and I kept a no lander and I mulled to 4. His deck must suck or he does lolz" Then I turn to you, "Good game. Shake my hand." Then I laugh and leave. You're telling me that you'll leave that exchange feeling better because at least I said "good game" to you, like a true sportsman?
The words aren't important. The feelings behind them are. Shining people on with "good game" is a common thing. The words can be innocuous, but you can't tell me that people playing football or soccer or baseball might not start a brawl over a couple of innocent words dripping in sarcasm or derision. At least Magic players don't go around throwing punches for the most part.
That never happens though, or atleast very rarely does. Because when most people say good game, they understand it is simple basic courtesy, and doesn't mean any more than it means. Flipping out over someone telling you "good game" is the same as flipping out after some one says "hello" to you. Magic players instead of throwing punches tend to throw little passive aggressive bratty tantrums.
Many worship the group the pros walk on, and pros telling these people that "good game" is bad is only going to add to the flames lol.
There is very little "self righteousness" involved with the phrase "good game". If you are assuming self righteousness when you hear those words, then the problem is you, homie.
What a ridiculous example. What kind of people do you hang out with?
Why do you expect all people to evaluate a situation/scenario the same way?
Because I expect people to be polite or expect to be called out for being a rude ********. This argument is like saying that people shouldn't say "good morning" to other people, because that person might not be having a good morning and how dare you be so insensitive and rude to not consider that fact. It's idiotic. I have no problem with people evaluating scenarios in different ways, but when the "scenario" is a simple polite turn of phrase, I'm allowed to say that the people who go out of their way to find offense at it are huge crybabies. When someone's evaluation of a scenario reaches such a dumb conclusion, it's perfectly reasonable to call that evaluation into question.
Again, ask yourself - why can elementary students handle saying good game after any sporting event, but adult magic players seemingly can't. The only nice side about arguments like this is that the people opposed to this appear to be a very vocal, very tiny minority. I've been saying good game for literally years, and I've never been insulted when someone else said it or had someone get mad at me, so it's thankfully not a real life issue for most of us.
You like to assume a lot of things. You're assuming that all adults say "good game" after a sporting event. You can't compare elementary school kids to adults...because they aren't. They don't have the positive/negative life experiences to mold their personality that comes with age and tangible results due to success or failure later in life. Elementary school kids aren't afraid of failure. They aren't afraid to say something stupid because they don't understand the greater effect of their actions.
I'm not saying all players who sneer at an after-game courtesy are justified, but I AM saying that I can understand where that player might be coming from that would cause them to reject it. I don't put myself in that position to be offended or be the offender because I almost never say "good game"...unless it was actually a good game. "Good luck in the next round" or just a handshake. If you have a problem with that then it's on you.
If people assume any iteration of "Good Game" is dripping with sarcasm and self righteousness, the problem is on the person taking basic common courtesy in a negative way and assuming the worst.
You people need to relax. Not everyone is out to get you and bully you.
You like to assume a lot of things. You're assuming that all adults say "good game" after a sporting event. You can't compare elementary school kids to adults...because they aren't. They don't have the positive/negative life experiences to mold their personality that comes with age and tangible results due to success or failure later in life. Elementary school kids aren't afraid of failure. They aren't afraid to say something stupid because they don't understand the greater effect of their actions.
I'm not saying all players who sneer at an after-game courtesy are justified, but I AM saying that I can understand where that player might be coming from that would cause them to reject it. I don't put myself in that position to be offended or be the offender because I almost never say "good game"...unless it was actually a good game. "Good luck in the next round" or just a handshake. If you have a problem with that then it's on you.
This debate comes up on these forums occasionally, and I always get sucked in and it is always useless because this is an issue with no facts on either side, so one one ever comes away convinced they're wrong. It's a fundamental disconnect between the two groups, and I can't really speak for the side that hates good game whether it's assuming everyone is secretly making fun of you, or it's a dislike of relatively empty phrases that, if taken at their strict meaning, may not be true, or if it's people that were mocked with the phrase good game, or if it's the same people that get really angry in video games when the winner says good game before the game is over (which is slightly poor form IMO, but not worth worrying about), but at the end of the day no one on either side of this debate is going to move one way or the other.
I don't hear self righteousness when you say good game. I hear self righteousness when you say others should accept "good game" regardless of circumstances or how you deliver the line. I personally don't tilt when people say anything to me but I can definitely see it in others and I can respect that. I have no issue saying "good luck in the next round" as opposed to good game. I don't see how my way is any less sportsman-like than yours, while also dodging around this tricky issue. But you want others to accept your way or be declared dicks. Ok.
Scenario: I beat you. Top 8 win and in. I point at you and say to my pal next to me, "I beat this guy 2-0 and I kept a no lander and I mulled to 4. His deck must suck or he does lolz" Then I turn to you, "Good game. Shake my hand." Then I laugh and leave. You're telling me that you'll leave that exchange feeling better because at least I said "good game" to you, like a true sportsman?
The words aren't important. The feelings behind them are. Shining people on with "good game" is a common thing. The words can be innocuous, but you can't tell me that people playing football or soccer or baseball might not start a brawl over a couple of innocent words dripping in sarcasm or derision. At least Magic players don't go around throwing punches for the most part.
That never happens though, or atleast very rarely does. Because when most people say good game, they understand it is simple basic courtesy, and doesn't mean any more than it means. Flipping out over someone telling you "good game" is the same as flipping out after some one says "hello" to you. Magic players instead of throwing punches tend to throw little passive aggressive bratty tantrums.
Many worship the group the pros walk on, and pros telling these people that "good game" is bad is only going to add to the flames lol.
There is very little "self righteousness" involved with the phrase "good game". If you are assuming self righteousness when you hear those words, then the problem is you, homie.
What a ridiculous example. What kind of people do you hang out with?
He's probably lived it, as the guy saying "good game" lol
Magic is different because of the randomness aspect.
Three pages of this thread and only one response that actually seeks to point out the underlying core of the topic.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has 100% control over their chances to win or lose is an old fashioned, but well used and accepted closure to the competition. It is often wrong and serves to devalue the English language, but it's still traditional. It mostly make sense because the game was usually good in the sense that both participants gave it their best effort and that makes it 'good'.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has a soft or hard cap on their chances to win or lose is most often a thinly veiled triumph of self proclamation. In video games, the network connectivity or system processing speed may hinder your chances of winning, in MTG, even with identical deck lists, the cards you draw will always be the single most unpredictable and all-powerful limiting factor in your chance to win. Ending a match with GG when it clearly wasn't good, is insulting. You are insulting the person by calling something good which was not within human control. It's good for you because you won with limited interaction. If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
Conversely, if someone saying "good game" to you makes you so upset, you should consider taking a break from interacting with other humans for awhile.
If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
Conversely, if someone saying "good game" to you makes you so upset, you should consider taking a break from interacting with other humans for awhile.
Well that depends entirely on the circumstances. If you say GG to someone and they respond to you that it offends them and asks you nicely to not say it to them again, and later you do it; that is the very definition of harassment.
The point of discouraging the use of GG is to avoid offending people, not to draw a line in the sand of 'people who get butt-hurt over things other think are silly' and 'strong-as-iron-people-who-never-get-offended-by-anything-they-consider-childish'.
You people need to relax. Not everyone is out to get you and bully you.
I think most people in this thread who are saying the pro's are right - are not people who get offended by GG. I have never said it first to someone, but am not offended by it; I will say it back when someone says it to me; but only if it was a good game; if it wasn't - I'll say something like "Yeah. Good luck in the next round." But that's irrelevant.
What I'm saying is - I can see how some might get offended by it. And there are people who will be. So why should I have an issues with adjusting a few words as to not offend someone? How does it hurt me as a person? If by saying it - I might cause someone who's just lost to feel extra anguish from the loss - there's no reason to continue to say it beyond some stubborn belief that what I believe to be common courtesy should be the same thing the man sitting across the table from me should consider common courtesy. Especially in a 1v1 based game that relies so much on luck.
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I don't care if my opponents felling's are hurt some people are soft like play doh that's not problem. Nobody wants to lose but that's part of the game get over it. I say good luck before and after a match and sometimes nothing at all if I see my opponent is steaming. A lot of the MTG community is very immature and overly sensitive. People need to learn how to be a good loser as much as winners need to be gracious. I know it's easier to be a gracious winner.
I don't care if my opponents felling's are hurt some people are soft like play doh that's not problem. Nobody wants to lose but that's part of the game get over it. I say good luck before and after a match and sometimes nothing at all if I see my opponent is steaming. A lot of the MTG community is very immature and overly sensitive. People need to learn how to be a good loser as much as winners need to be gracious. I know it's easier to be a gracious winner.
It's not just the MTG community, it's all the communities. There's an invasion of these soft, immature, children who scream "TRIGGERED!" at every little thing. They try to write themselves off as some kind of elite club by saying they are social justice warriors. It's depressing to see it spreading like a disease into just about every fandom. Boardgamegeek got it pretty bad by a large wave of these people crying recently, I'm worried for when they inevitable start leaking into these forums.
"Good game" shouldn't be an automatic response. If it isn't a good game, don't say it. If it was a good game, say it. If you are looking for something to say after a game, say something appropriate to the scenario. Problem solved, no need to have a discussion about it. People are so sensitive these days.
I don't care if my opponents felling's are hurt some people are soft like play doh that's not problem. Nobody wants to lose but that's part of the game get over it. I say good luck before and after a match and sometimes nothing at all if I see my opponent is steaming. A lot of the MTG community is very immature and overly sensitive. People need to learn how to be a good loser as much as winners need to be gracious. I know it's easier to be a gracious winner.
It's not just the MTG community, it's all the communities. There's an invasion of these soft, immature, children who scream "TRIGGERED!" at every little thing. They try to write themselves off as some kind of elite club by saying they are social justice warriors. It's depressing to see it spreading like a disease into just about every fandom. Boardgamegeek got it pretty bad by a large wave of these people crying recently, I'm worried for when they inevitable start leaking into these forums.
It's important to distinguish between the privatizing impulse to take personal offense at things that are not aggressive or hurtful and the important and laudable attempt to identify and challenge very real social inequalities. Being concerned with sexist, racist, or homophobic remarks or focusing attention upon the ways in which women, people of colour, and people with non-normative sexualities are often mistreated is NOT the same as finding ordinary aspects of interpersonal interaction triggering or offensive. One is privately oriented, that is, it focuses narrowly on individuals, and attempts to impose one's private desires on everyone. The other is publicly oriented, which is to say, its aim is to improve conditions for everyone.
The public as a whole benefits when sexist/racist/homophobic attitudes and actions are stamped out. The well-being of entire communities are improved when everyday racism/sexism is exposed and challenged. People taking offense at "good game" (which is outrageous) aren't doing so because they're concerned with making the world a better place, it's because they don't want to feel personal discomfort.
This privatizing desire to impose oneself on everyone else is not the fault of "Hippies" (whatever that's supposed to mean). On the contrary, it's the result of a corporate culture, which teaches us to think of ourselves, first and foremost, as consumers, not citizens; as individuals, rather than members of a shared community. In a corporate society, the customer is always right. Private impulses and selfish desires are cultivated and inflamed, because the more unchecked desires an individual has, the more products they are likely to buy to satisfy them.
A disturbing trend is the tendency--both by those on the reactionary right (a cause to which I fear a great number of the MTG community belongs) and by those naive, young, millenials who like to think of themselves as being on the left--to conflate the pursuit of social justice and the public good with the desire for private satisfaction and personal comfort. REAL public activism is uncomfortable, it takes courage. Challenging a LGS that is pervaded by sexism and homophobia can be terrifying, since it involves exposing yourself to ridicule and rage. PRIVATE indulgence, by contrast, is risk-free. One demands that other's conform to one's private desires or one threatens to leave. Whining about someone saying "good game" doesn't take any bravery.
Keep this in mind. It's important to know what you are actually against.
Magic is different because of the randomness aspect.
Three pages of this thread and only one response that actually seeks to point out the underlying core of the topic.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has 100% control over their chances to win or lose is an old fashioned, but well used and accepted closure to the competition. It is often wrong and serves to devalue the English language, but it's still traditional. It mostly make sense because the game was usually good in the sense that both participants gave it their best effort and that makes it 'good'.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has a soft or hard cap on their chances to win or lose is most often a thinly veiled triumph of self proclamation. In video games, the network connectivity or system processing speed may hinder your chances of winning, in MTG, even with identical deck lists, the cards you draw will always be the single most unpredictable and all-powerful limiting factor in your chance to win. Ending a match with GG when it clearly wasn't good, is insulting. You are insulting the person by calling something good which was not within human control. It's good for you because you won with limited interaction. If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
So people who lose by mana screw or bad draws are entitled to and have the right to act like petulant little spoiled brats, throw little temper tantrums and ignore common courtesy-because they lost and didn't get the hand they wanted?
If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
Conversely, if someone saying "good game" to you makes you so upset, you should consider taking a break from interacting with other humans for awhile.
Well that depends entirely on the circumstances. If you say GG to someone and they respond to you that it offends them and asks you nicely to not say it to them again, and later you do it; that is the very definition of harassment.
Jesus Christ
The real world isn't a hug box.
If I say hello to someone and they ask me not to say hello, and then I say hello to them next time I meet them, is that harassment too?
You people need to relax. Not everyone is out to get you and bully you.
I think most people in this thread who are saying the pro's are right - are not people who get offended by GG. I have never said it first to someone, but am not offended by it; I will say it back when someone says it to me; but only if it was a good game; if it wasn't - I'll say something like "Yeah. Good luck in the next round." But that's irrelevant.
What I'm saying is - I can see how some might get offended by it. And there are people who will be. So why should I have an issues with adjusting a few words as to not offend someone? How does it hurt me as a person? If by saying it - I might cause someone who's just lost to feel extra anguish from the loss - there's no reason to continue to say it beyond some stubborn belief that what I believe to be common courtesy should be the same thing the man sitting across the table from me should consider common courtesy. Especially in a 1v1 based game that relies so much on luck.
It is foolish to change the way you live and act in fear that you might run in to a butthurt person who gets offended by basic politeness. We should not all be forced to walk on eggshells to accomodate the few salty butthurts in this world who can't handle losing a game of magic without catching feelings and throwing a tantrum.
Pros should not be encouraging this kind of thing because god knows they already have enough influence on most of the magic community.
One of the reasons, aside from time, why I don't attend limited tournaments anymore and stick to kitchen table with my best pal. I'm tired of why-so-serious dudes who're average like the next guy at this game yet feel they need to behave like a cold-heart pro securing his PT Top 8 at the local FNM. Just because some one-percenters said things in a few tweets means a bunch of impressionable people think they need to follow suit. I used to always said something like "allright, thanks for the game", whether I was trashed or was the pilderiver, seeing grown people take offense in the latter case is just ridiculous when the stakes are a promo card and a couple boosters.
Magic is different because of the randomness aspect.
Three pages of this thread and only one response that actually seeks to point out the underlying core of the topic.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has 100% control over their chances to win or lose is an old fashioned, but well used and accepted closure to the competition. It is often wrong and serves to devalue the English language, but it's still traditional. It mostly make sense because the game was usually good in the sense that both participants gave it their best effort and that makes it 'good'.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has a soft or hard cap on their chances to win or lose is most often a thinly veiled triumph of self proclamation. In video games, the network connectivity or system processing speed may hinder your chances of winning, in MTG, even with identical deck lists, the cards you draw will always be the single most unpredictable and all-powerful limiting factor in your chance to win. Ending a match with GG when it clearly wasn't good, is insulting. You are insulting the person by calling something good which was not within human control. It's good for you because you won with limited interaction. If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
So people who lose by mana screw or bad draws are entitled to and have the right to act like petulant little spoiled brats, throw little temper tantrums and ignore common courtesy-because they lost and didn't get the hand they wanted?
Multiple people have disagreed with you and presented their reasoning(s) for doing so. The title of your thread ASKS us "what we say after a match?", but each time someone voices their opinion on a proper response that doesn't line up with yours you, ironically, throw little temper tantrums. Why can you not accept that others think differently from you?
Magic is different because of the randomness aspect.
Three pages of this thread and only one response that actually seeks to point out the underlying core of the topic.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has 100% control over their chances to win or lose is an old fashioned, but well used and accepted closure to the competition. It is often wrong and serves to devalue the English language, but it's still traditional. It mostly make sense because the game was usually good in the sense that both participants gave it their best effort and that makes it 'good'.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has a soft or hard cap on their chances to win or lose is most often a thinly veiled triumph of self proclamation. In video games, the network connectivity or system processing speed may hinder your chances of winning, in MTG, even with identical deck lists, the cards you draw will always be the single most unpredictable and all-powerful limiting factor in your chance to win. Ending a match with GG when it clearly wasn't good, is insulting. You are insulting the person by calling something good which was not within human control. It's good for you because you won with limited interaction. If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
So people who lose by mana screw or bad draws are entitled to and have the right to act like petulant little spoiled brats, throw little temper tantrums and ignore common courtesy-because they lost and didn't get the hand they wanted?
Multiple people have disagreed with you and presented their reasoning(s) for doing so. The title of your thread ASKS us "what we say after a match?", but each time someone voices their opinion on a proper response that doesn't line up with yours you, ironically, throw little temper tantrums. Why can you not accept that others think differently from you?
Typing words calling out BS logic is not throwing a tantrum, homie. No need to resort to logical fallacies and make personal attacks. In my previous point, I was asking you to clarify if the point you were making matched up with my question, as it seemed like you were justifying the behavior of people who lose in magic and act like spoiled brats because they didn't draw the cards they wanted to draw.
"Sportsmanship" is just being a decent human that people enjoy interacting with. That requires some basic situational awareness and emotional sensitivity, otherwise known as "social skills". If you use "GG" no matter the context, you lack the situational awareness of a good sport. If you're complaining that people are too sensitive, you lack the emotional sensitivity of a good sport. "GG" is only a *symbol* of sportsmanship, just using it doesn't make you a good sport by itself. It's all about attitude.
Sportsmanship isn't tested by amicably interacting with other good sports. It's tested by how you interact with not-good sports and others you don't like. Good sports defuse salt, bad sports exacerbate it. Not everybody has the ability to be an actively good sport, it's fine to just be a neutral sport by neither defusing nor exacerbating the salt. Using "GG" inappropriately such that it exacerbates saltiness is the worst kind of sport. They're a delusionally bad sport that believes that they're not just a good sport, but that they're the *superior* sport. Cargo Cult Sportsmanship at its finest.
The first: As a result of variance and a minority of people who use the phrase "good game" condescendingly, some people consider the use of the phrase to be a sore point, particularly when the winner says it to the loser. It's important to understand that the phrase might rub people the wrong way and adjust accordingly.
The second: "Good game" is a traditional post-game greeting and anyone who reacts negatively to it is missing the intent.
There's a lot of people exaggerating the second point, referring to people who flip out over a heartfelt "good game" as immature, but I would argue that this is strawman logic and misses the point. People can take something negatively without flipping out about it. I've heard "good game" used in an insincere way enough times that it irks me when people say it after a game that didn't feel like it played out well, but I'll still respond and return a handshake because I have a basic sense of sportsmanship too. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
Which brings me to the actual pertinent question for the people on the "I'll use the traditional greeting as I please" side: Why do you say "good game"? What is the intended outcome you are trying to achieve? If you are saying it as a show of good sportsmanship as you claim, then presumbly the intent is to leave everyone with a positive impression of the experience. But if that's the goal then why, when presented with evidence that the specific wording can backfire and lead to a negative impression in some cases, do you insist on sticking with it? The only other explanation I can see is that you are using the phrase for your own benefit - because it makes you feel good about yourself and your sense of sportsmanship, without concern for the other person's feelings or opinion on the matter. This bears out in the posts from a few people so far who have outright said that they don't care what the other party thinks about it. If this is really your position, then I have to question the maturity of your own position since it seems to boil down to "I'll do what I like and anyone who doesn't like it can just deal."
I must of been sick on the day that they taught us all to care about whether or not something meaningless will offend someone or not.
Be in control of your own emotions. Let everyone else sort out their own. If people would adopt this mentality we could stop all this petty worrying about stupid things.
Hey man, just for clarity:
a) did you mean to insult autistic people in this post or are you just thoughtlessly using slang?
b) Is "The world sucks and we shouldn't try to improve it" a good summary of your position?
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What a ridiculous example. What kind of people do you hang out with?
You like to assume a lot of things. You're assuming that all adults say "good game" after a sporting event. You can't compare elementary school kids to adults...because they aren't. They don't have the positive/negative life experiences to mold their personality that comes with age and tangible results due to success or failure later in life. Elementary school kids aren't afraid of failure. They aren't afraid to say something stupid because they don't understand the greater effect of their actions.
I'm not saying all players who sneer at an after-game courtesy are justified, but I AM saying that I can understand where that player might be coming from that would cause them to reject it. I don't put myself in that position to be offended or be the offender because I almost never say "good game"...unless it was actually a good game. "Good luck in the next round" or just a handshake. If you have a problem with that then it's on you.
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You people need to relax. Not everyone is out to get you and bully you.
This debate comes up on these forums occasionally, and I always get sucked in and it is always useless because this is an issue with no facts on either side, so one one ever comes away convinced they're wrong. It's a fundamental disconnect between the two groups, and I can't really speak for the side that hates good game whether it's assuming everyone is secretly making fun of you, or it's a dislike of relatively empty phrases that, if taken at their strict meaning, may not be true, or if it's people that were mocked with the phrase good game, or if it's the same people that get really angry in video games when the winner says good game before the game is over (which is slightly poor form IMO, but not worth worrying about), but at the end of the day no one on either side of this debate is going to move one way or the other.
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He's probably lived it, as the guy saying "good game" lol
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The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has 100% control over their chances to win or lose is an old fashioned, but well used and accepted closure to the competition. It is often wrong and serves to devalue the English language, but it's still traditional. It mostly make sense because the game was usually good in the sense that both participants gave it their best effort and that makes it 'good'.
The phrase GG related to an environment where the participant has a soft or hard cap on their chances to win or lose is most often a thinly veiled triumph of self proclamation. In video games, the network connectivity or system processing speed may hinder your chances of winning, in MTG, even with identical deck lists, the cards you draw will always be the single most unpredictable and all-powerful limiting factor in your chance to win. Ending a match with GG when it clearly wasn't good, is insulting. You are insulting the person by calling something good which was not within human control. It's good for you because you won with limited interaction. If you are a person who has difficulty understanding this concept and wants to devolve it into 'kids handle it, must be your problem, pal', then you should consider taking a break from Internet-based activities for awhile.
Conversely, if someone saying "good game" to you makes you so upset, you should consider taking a break from interacting with other humans for awhile.
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Well that depends entirely on the circumstances. If you say GG to someone and they respond to you that it offends them and asks you nicely to not say it to them again, and later you do it; that is the very definition of harassment.
The point of discouraging the use of GG is to avoid offending people, not to draw a line in the sand of 'people who get butt-hurt over things other think are silly' and 'strong-as-iron-people-who-never-get-offended-by-anything-they-consider-childish'.
I think most people in this thread who are saying the pro's are right - are not people who get offended by GG. I have never said it first to someone, but am not offended by it; I will say it back when someone says it to me; but only if it was a good game; if it wasn't - I'll say something like "Yeah. Good luck in the next round." But that's irrelevant.
What I'm saying is - I can see how some might get offended by it. And there are people who will be. So why should I have an issues with adjusting a few words as to not offend someone? How does it hurt me as a person? If by saying it - I might cause someone who's just lost to feel extra anguish from the loss - there's no reason to continue to say it beyond some stubborn belief that what I believe to be common courtesy should be the same thing the man sitting across the table from me should consider common courtesy. Especially in a 1v1 based game that relies so much on luck.
It's not just the MTG community, it's all the communities. There's an invasion of these soft, immature, children who scream "TRIGGERED!" at every little thing. They try to write themselves off as some kind of elite club by saying they are social justice warriors. It's depressing to see it spreading like a disease into just about every fandom. Boardgamegeek got it pretty bad by a large wave of these people crying recently, I'm worried for when they inevitable start leaking into these forums.
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It's important to distinguish between the privatizing impulse to take personal offense at things that are not aggressive or hurtful and the important and laudable attempt to identify and challenge very real social inequalities. Being concerned with sexist, racist, or homophobic remarks or focusing attention upon the ways in which women, people of colour, and people with non-normative sexualities are often mistreated is NOT the same as finding ordinary aspects of interpersonal interaction triggering or offensive. One is privately oriented, that is, it focuses narrowly on individuals, and attempts to impose one's private desires on everyone. The other is publicly oriented, which is to say, its aim is to improve conditions for everyone.
The public as a whole benefits when sexist/racist/homophobic attitudes and actions are stamped out. The well-being of entire communities are improved when everyday racism/sexism is exposed and challenged. People taking offense at "good game" (which is outrageous) aren't doing so because they're concerned with making the world a better place, it's because they don't want to feel personal discomfort.
This privatizing desire to impose oneself on everyone else is not the fault of "Hippies" (whatever that's supposed to mean). On the contrary, it's the result of a corporate culture, which teaches us to think of ourselves, first and foremost, as consumers, not citizens; as individuals, rather than members of a shared community. In a corporate society, the customer is always right. Private impulses and selfish desires are cultivated and inflamed, because the more unchecked desires an individual has, the more products they are likely to buy to satisfy them.
A disturbing trend is the tendency--both by those on the reactionary right (a cause to which I fear a great number of the MTG community belongs) and by those naive, young, millenials who like to think of themselves as being on the left--to conflate the pursuit of social justice and the public good with the desire for private satisfaction and personal comfort. REAL public activism is uncomfortable, it takes courage. Challenging a LGS that is pervaded by sexism and homophobia can be terrifying, since it involves exposing yourself to ridicule and rage. PRIVATE indulgence, by contrast, is risk-free. One demands that other's conform to one's private desires or one threatens to leave. Whining about someone saying "good game" doesn't take any bravery.
Keep this in mind. It's important to know what you are actually against.
So people who lose by mana screw or bad draws are entitled to and have the right to act like petulant little spoiled brats, throw little temper tantrums and ignore common courtesy-because they lost and didn't get the hand they wanted?
Jesus Christ
The real world isn't a hug box.
If I say hello to someone and they ask me not to say hello, and then I say hello to them next time I meet them, is that harassment too?
It is foolish to change the way you live and act in fear that you might run in to a butthurt person who gets offended by basic politeness. We should not all be forced to walk on eggshells to accomodate the few salty butthurts in this world who can't handle losing a game of magic without catching feelings and throwing a tantrum.
Pros should not be encouraging this kind of thing because god knows they already have enough influence on most of the magic community.
Multiple people have disagreed with you and presented their reasoning(s) for doing so. The title of your thread ASKS us "what we say after a match?", but each time someone voices their opinion on a proper response that doesn't line up with yours you, ironically, throw little temper tantrums. Why can you not accept that others think differently from you?
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Typing words calling out BS logic is not throwing a tantrum, homie. No need to resort to logical fallacies and make personal attacks. In my previous point, I was asking you to clarify if the point you were making matched up with my question, as it seemed like you were justifying the behavior of people who lose in magic and act like spoiled brats because they didn't draw the cards they wanted to draw.
Sportsmanship isn't tested by amicably interacting with other good sports. It's tested by how you interact with not-good sports and others you don't like. Good sports defuse salt, bad sports exacerbate it. Not everybody has the ability to be an actively good sport, it's fine to just be a neutral sport by neither defusing nor exacerbating the salt. Using "GG" inappropriately such that it exacerbates saltiness is the worst kind of sport. They're a delusionally bad sport that believes that they're not just a good sport, but that they're the *superior* sport. Cargo Cult Sportsmanship at its finest.
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The first: As a result of variance and a minority of people who use the phrase "good game" condescendingly, some people consider the use of the phrase to be a sore point, particularly when the winner says it to the loser. It's important to understand that the phrase might rub people the wrong way and adjust accordingly.
The second: "Good game" is a traditional post-game greeting and anyone who reacts negatively to it is missing the intent.
There's a lot of people exaggerating the second point, referring to people who flip out over a heartfelt "good game" as immature, but I would argue that this is strawman logic and misses the point. People can take something negatively without flipping out about it. I've heard "good game" used in an insincere way enough times that it irks me when people say it after a game that didn't feel like it played out well, but I'll still respond and return a handshake because I have a basic sense of sportsmanship too. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
Which brings me to the actual pertinent question for the people on the "I'll use the traditional greeting as I please" side: Why do you say "good game"? What is the intended outcome you are trying to achieve? If you are saying it as a show of good sportsmanship as you claim, then presumbly the intent is to leave everyone with a positive impression of the experience. But if that's the goal then why, when presented with evidence that the specific wording can backfire and lead to a negative impression in some cases, do you insist on sticking with it? The only other explanation I can see is that you are using the phrase for your own benefit - because it makes you feel good about yourself and your sense of sportsmanship, without concern for the other person's feelings or opinion on the matter. This bears out in the posts from a few people so far who have outright said that they don't care what the other party thinks about it. If this is really your position, then I have to question the maturity of your own position since it seems to boil down to "I'll do what I like and anyone who doesn't like it can just deal."
Be in control of your own emotions. Let everyone else sort out their own. If people would adopt this mentality we could stop all this petty worrying about stupid things.
a) did you mean to insult autistic people in this post or are you just thoughtlessly using slang?
b) Is "The world sucks and we shouldn't try to improve it" a good summary of your position?
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