Because if you are inside the US (Yes i am jumping to the conclusion that you are in fact dealing with US law) you are in no way entitled to the price you believe you are. This feeling of deservedness despite having no grounding in reality is what I have an objection to.
Just because it's not illegal (and I'm not sure whether it is, it possibly depends on the state), that doesn't mean it's not a jerk move. And that's what I mean, I don't necessarily feel legally entitled. That's not the only meaning "entitled" has.
I remember when the Conspiracy spoilers weren't up on the date when Wizards said they would be, and half the people were like, "This sucks, Wizards!" and the other half were like, "You guys are a bunch of entitled brats!" I really don't understand that impulse. Neither the Conspiracy spoiler complainers nor I believe we have some cosmic or legal right to get our way. I'm just saying, this situation sucks and the owner handled it poorly and he should have honored the prices, whether or not he legally needs to. Why do you find that so objectionable?
Because I don't even think the owner handled it particularly poorly, whereas I DO feel you did. Granted I have seen enough of these themed topics before so if I'm short that's why, but it really seems to me that you don't have much ground to stand on legally, morally or whatever other ground you decide to pick.
Is it really so hard to believe that BOTH of you handled it poorly? I shudder at the thought.
I'm sorry. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but how did the OP handle it poorly? Is it his job to let the store owner know of updated prices? I really don't understand the people who say that they would let the owner know all of the prices of his cards.
You know as well as everyone else here that you would buy a card for cheaper at one place rather than buy it for more at another place. The bottom line from what I read is that he wanted to buy some cards from a marked box and the owner changed the prices (not even that day, but a day after looking everything up). I bet you that he doesn't even sell the cards and when they go down in value or no one is interested, he'll wish secretly that he had less cardboard paper to store and carry.
I'll leave with 2 examples.
1. I bought a Daybreak Coronet for $3 the day after it spiked to $21 from an LGS nearby. Should I feel horribly? Should I go back and pay him $18 more? Does he really need or even care about that $18 more than myself?
2. I traded 2 extra Blood Moons that I had; 2 9th edition Blood Moons for a FOIL MM2015 Dark Confidant. The next week, the guy from my LGS told me that he didn't quite give me enough for the Blood Moons. I told him that it was all right, but he insisted, so I looked through his binder. There wasn't anything that I needed and I was okay with the trade before. The trade is done. It is not up to me to say that it wasn't fair and order him to pay me money.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Where I am from we have special laws against this type of attitude and I have taken the habit of recording mass buys at LGSs that are known to be like that.
Most LGSs simply do not price their cards and give you an up to date price; however, they sometimes have tags.
If the salesman fails to update the price, it is his benefit by law to simply sell it to you for the lowest price. By law, he must sell it to you at the lowest marked price and if that price is less than 5$, you get it for free.
I had a case where I wanted a bunch of cheap cards and all of a sudden he takes them 1 by 1 (all labelled 1$ and under) and starts checking prices. That was before I took the habit of recording these things. After a heated argument and some dumbasses in the store trying to argue with me (other players not involved), he took the cards off the counter and stated they were no longer for sale. We aren't talking big here. It was maybe max 25$ actual value and I was buying for 15$... I even told the guy "look by law, this should be sold to me for free but I insist on paying 15$" to which he refused...
I reported them for breaking the law and now nothing they got is priced anymore.
If you want to sell goods, it is your job to update the prices and if you do not want to, then do not label them and simply state "Prices vary according to xyz".
In the case of the OP, I would've simply smiled, got out more cards, asked him to price them for me, mixed them and walk out of the store to never come back. My time is valuable and if you cannot be bothered to be a good salesman, then don't waste people's times trying to haggle.
I didn't read through the entire first page, just the first post and maybe the following ten replies.
I would post the stores name and consider it black listed on stores I would never attend or support in anyway. It wasn't the fact that he didn't honor the posted price, which I believe is illegal, but there's probably some fuzziness about that in brick and mortar stores. I know large companies have to honor ****ed up pricing. No, what would have forced me to never come back was the owners ***** and condescending attitude.
What would I have done? Purchased the cards the first day and then tell him what they were worth after the sale then tell him I'm never coming back. I would have done that because he didn't honor the posted price.
He handled it poorly because he should have said yes or no to the $10 price on the first day. Once he asked the owner to set it aside, he was in the wrong. Primarily because he didn't know if he was going to buy the things. So is the owner supposed to not look or touch the items until he comes back? Because the OP said, "Maybe I'll come back." Not, "I'll be back tomorrow for those". Just, "Maybe I'll come back" and likely said with an attitude because it was in response to him telling you of new higher prices.
What sense does that make? Maybe OP should have licked the cards, that way he could say they were truly his when he picked them out of a bulk box.
Finally, until cash changes hand, the deal isn't done. This wasn't ebay, this wasn't an auction or a deal signed in blood. OP said, "MAYBE I'll COME BACK." Hell, I'm surprised the owner even set them aside. Would OP have lost his cookies if the owner threw them back into the bulk box after he left? If the owner wanted to look up the price of that stuff, I don't see the harm in him coming back and deciding not to sell anymore. It's *his* cards. He can do what he wants. OP can try to tell other people his story but I read this and shrugged my shoulders. Magic players behaving poorly to save $5 and then salty because he lost out on scoring a major deal. So instead of looking for more deals, he's trying to sink the store that has the bulk box. Very mature.
Is it really so hard to believe that BOTH of you handled it poorly? I shudder at the thought.
I'm sorry. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but how did the OP handle it poorly? Is it his job to let the store owner know of updated prices? I really don't understand the people who say that they would let the owner know all of the prices of his cards.
You know as well as everyone else here that you would buy a card for cheaper at one place rather than buy it for more at another place. The bottom line from what I read is that he wanted to buy some cards from a marked box and the owner changed the prices (not even that day, but a day after looking everything up). I bet you that he doesn't even sell the cards and when they go down in value or no one is interested, he'll wish secretly that he had less cardboard paper to store and carry.
I'll leave with 2 examples.
1. I bought a Daybreak Coronet for $3 the day after it spiked to $21 from an LGS nearby. Should I feel horribly? Should I go back and pay him $18 more? Does he really need or even care about that $18 more than myself?
2. I traded 2 extra Blood Moons that I had; 2 9th edition Blood Moons for a FOIL MM2015 Dark Confidant. The next week, the guy from my LGS told me that he didn't quite give me enough for the Blood Moons. I told him that it was all right, but he insisted, so I looked through his binder. There wasn't anything that I needed and I was okay with the trade before. The trade is done. It is not up to me to say that it wasn't fair and order him to pay me money.
Let's blacklist the store for daring to look things up! When I say "Maybe I'll come Back", I mean I'll come back! Yeah! And let's get the Attorney General on his butt because the sign on the side of the box wasn't right! These one-man LGS operations are a scourge on society! Also, let's add KFC to that because they raised the prices of their combos by 10 cents without adjusting the menu! I want my $5 back on my potential $10 purchase and then I want my .10! Yeah!
Illegal? What a laugh. So if I misprint a price on something I am obligated to sell it for that price now? If I hire someone and he goes through my store with a pricing gun and then sells all the inventory for .10 as marked to his friends...that's supposed to be legal and binding? lol - yeah, because common sense couldn't dictate that I can pull inventory entirely or just say it's not for sale. Large stores honor those mistakes to generate goodwill. They're not doing it to avoid being sued (unless they're doing it systemically)
I didn't read through the entire first page, just the first post and maybe the following ten replies.
I would post the stores name and consider it black listed on stores I would never attend or support in anyway. It wasn't the fact that he didn't honor the posted price, which I believe is illegal, but there's probably some fuzziness about that in brick and mortar stores. I know large companies have to honor ****ed up pricing. No, what would have forced me to never come back was the owners ***** and condescending attitude.
What would I have done? Purchased the cards the first day and then tell him what they were worth after the sale then tell him I'm never coming back. I would have done that because he didn't honor the posted price.
lol I don't know if this is trolling or not but you might be a terrible and entitled customer. "By law, I need these for free!" What a joke!
Good for the LGS. I would have banned you from the shop after this incident.
Where I am from we have special laws against this type of attitude and I have taken the habit of recording mass buys at LGSs that are known to be like that.
Most LGSs simply do not price their cards and give you an up to date price; however, they sometimes have tags.
If the salesman fails to update the price, it is his benefit by law to simply sell it to you for the lowest price. By law, he must sell it to you at the lowest marked price and if that price is less than 5$, you get it for free.
I had a case where I wanted a bunch of cheap cards and all of a sudden he takes them 1 by 1 (all labelled 1$ and under) and starts checking prices. That was before I took the habit of recording these things. After a heated argument and some dumbasses in the store trying to argue with me (other players not involved), he took the cards off the counter and stated they were no longer for sale. We aren't talking big here. It was maybe max 25$ actual value and I was buying for 15$... I even told the guy "look by law, this should be sold to me for free but I insist on paying 15$" to which he refused...
I reported them for breaking the law and now nothing they got is priced anymore.
If you want to sell goods, it is your job to update the prices and if you do not want to, then do not label them and simply state "Prices vary according to xyz".
In the case of the OP, I would've simply smiled, got out more cards, asked him to price them for me, mixed them and walk out of the store to never come back. My time is valuable and if you cannot be bothered to be a good salesman, then don't waste people's times trying to haggle.
Merged triple post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
I ask the store owners upfront if all cards are at mark price, say a dollar each in bulk box before I dig. If he sales the rares to other player at that price and not you that is a discrimination case.
If you aren't going to sell the cards at the marked price, why mark them? I have had it worth both ways. The same owner would look up prices and every single listed in the case, and mark them up when they are higher, but not mark them down in my favor. But he also didn't charge my friend and I for over $100 in tokens because he didn't bother to look though them.
I am simply amazed by some of the responses to the OP. Many of you seem willing to simply let the store owner off the hook with a wave of the hand and a "it's not his fault that he didn't update the prices. He's a small shop!"
I find those types of excuses abhorrent. If you are going to own your own business, you need to own and run it. If you can't be bothered to actually do the work, then it is most certainly your fault when someone gets a spectacular deal due to your inability to run your operation. Does anyone really want to argue this point?
The facts (as stated on first page):
Store owner has bargain bin with marked prices
OP goes through bin and picks out cards, some of which he knows are worth more than the marked prices
Store owner refuses to honor marked prices saying that they haven't been updated in years
OP still could have gotten a good deal at the higher price quoted at the register, but chose not to take it due to it not being in line with marked prices
Store owner looks up retail value of cards when OP comes back to purchase some of them
Store owner accuses OP of copping and attitude
OP leaves store and creates this thread
Should the OP have just paid the $10 price quoted on day one? Yes
Should the OP have had to pay the $10 price quoted on day one? No
Should the store owner have honored the prices marked on the bin? Yes
Should the OP have made things worse upon his return visit? No
Again, excusing the store owner's laziness by saying that he's a small shop is beyond idiotic. If you run a gaming store, have a bulk bin, and have a functioning brain with even a little shred of market knowledge, you should know enough and be able to apply a bit of logic to figure out that what were bulk cards four years ago, may not be bulk cards now. Hell, Modern is a thing, and that has drastically changed the landscape of card pricing. Just look at things like Remand, Grove of the Burnwillows, and Cryptic Command if need examples. If a store owner can't or won't grasp these concepts, that is on them, not their customers. If the OWNER feels ENTITLED to place things for sale in a retail setting, and then never update his pricing, he is deserving of being on the wrong end of a great deal. If you want to argue that point, feel free.
Finally, we have a small store near the house. I run over to play a few games here and there while the kids are sleeping and I occasionally hit an FNM or Game Day. The owner has a full-time IT job and a small staff. To avoid these exact types of issues, he will throw his trusted long-term customers a few packs to go through and sort "bulk" stuff to make sure that the bulk is really bulk. Doesn't cost him much, it's free packs for some customers, and it's fun for them to hang out in the store and do nothing but handle cards. Simple solutions can avoid big problems.
Is it really so hard to believe that BOTH of you handled it poorly? I shudder at the thought.
I'm sorry. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but how did the OP handle it poorly? Is it his job to let the store owner know of updated prices? I really don't understand the people who say that they would let the owner know all of the prices of his cards.
You know as well as everyone else here that you would buy a card for cheaper at one place rather than buy it for more at another place. The bottom line from what I read is that he wanted to buy some cards from a marked box and the owner changed the prices (not even that day, but a day after looking everything up). I bet you that he doesn't even sell the cards and when they go down in value or no one is interested, he'll wish secretly that he had less cardboard paper to store and carry.
I'll leave with 2 examples.
1. I bought a Daybreak Coronet for $3 the day after it spiked to $21 from an LGS nearby. Should I feel horribly? Should I go back and pay him $18 more? Does he really need or even care about that $18 more than myself?
2. I traded 2 extra Blood Moons that I had; 2 9th edition Blood Moons for a FOIL MM2015 Dark Confidant. The next week, the guy from my LGS told me that he didn't quite give me enough for the Blood Moons. I told him that it was all right, but he insisted, so I looked through his binder. There wasn't anything that I needed and I was okay with the trade before. The trade is done. It is not up to me to say that it wasn't fair and order him to pay me money.
Because, if you know you're getting a good deal that is worth more than 10 dollars, not buying the cards because they're 10 dollars and not 5 is absurd. That would still be a good deal. The owner handled it WORSE certainly, but he wasn't innocent.
Edit: And basically walking away from a transaction does not entitle you to the same prices at a later date. He was well within his rights to check why $10 worth of cards was such a fuss for him, and when he realized he was way underpriced, he upped the price. Which is exactly what all of you would do. You would not say, ah man I made a mistake, if that kid shows up again I better eat this bad deal.
You clearly have no concept of what constitutes a legal sale.
I'm guessing you're a store owner newbie that believes is entitled to all the money you want with no effort.
Label everything for 1$ and change the price at the register and see how well this goes. Protip: it won't.
Magic shops generally carry a lot of cards so it is hard to keep track of the prices on all of them. My LGS made it a point to let its customers know that, with regards to Magic cards (this is an important caveat - see below), they reserve the right to price check at the counter and ensure they're selling the product for its correct value. This is perfectly reasonable in my eyes. It's not bad business.
And I'm not sure about what the law actually states - it doesn't sound right to me that store owners are legally obligated to sell a product for its marked price, but I'm no expert and I can see why a rule like that would be put in place.
Magic cards, however, occupy this weird zone in the market. Prices fluctuate a lot. Cards can change drastically in value overnight, and it seems to me that some people in this thread are pushing for or asserting that store owners are not able to change prices at the counter when they could have updated the price as recently as a couple of days ago. How often do you expect prices to be updated? Twice a week? Three times? Every day?
All this being said, I still believe the owner handled it poorly with regards to his attitude.
Some years ago I found a Necropotence in the bargain bin of a store between a bunch of other black Ice Age cards. When i brought it to the counter along with a bunch of other cards, the store owner checked his binder to see if all his Necropotences were accounted for, then congratulated me on the find and told me that one specific intern was going to be the next sacrifice to his great lord Cthulhu. He never charged a single cent extra, despite it being worth around $10 back then.
First of all, the BBB is a complete joke. It's a non-governmental, for-profit agency and you can buy a rating (and if you don't pay them, your rating is always bad.) Don't use it or support it. It's horrible.
Secondly, remember that your LGS is the reason you have a place to play magic. Further, no one is getting rich running an LGS. Instead of trying to pull one over on the owner and trick them into getting a good deal, and expecting them to spend all their time going through every bulk box to make sure every single card in there is actually bulk, why don't you just support them, pay a fair price, and not be a jerk.
He didn't try to trick anyone. He picked up the cards at the prices that was marked and expected to pay them at the price they were marked at. There's nothing wrong with that.
I mean, how would you feel if everytime you went to a store, you were never sure what the price would be once you reached the cash?
I don't know about the U.S. but in Canada, every item bought in a store MUST be sold at the price that's marked. If it's less than 10$, they must give you the item free of charge. This ensures that no one tries to pull a fast one.
There's been way too many cases of fraud where stores would purposely mark an item down, and then tell you that it's a higher price at the cash. Studies show that not only most people will just buy it once they're at the cash (especially if there are customers waiting behind them) but you will sell things that way that people would never have picked up had they known the price.
A few people losing some money over their own lazyness is a much better alternative than thousands of people being ripped off.
Also, you're assuming the O.P. had bad intentions. But how do you know the owner doesn't have a habit of luring ppl with those prices that he "forgot" to update, to make a few extra bucks by making ppl feel bad when they try to buy them?
I see this topic come up from time to time, and never, EVER end up coming away convinced by the OP. It's a gigantic amount of time to sort a large magic inventory. The price for the average card in that bin WAS probably 25 to 50 cents. expecting the store owner to track every single card in the inventory with up to date pricing is entirely unreasonable, it makes much more sense to wait and price check at the counter unless the card is something like one of the singles they are advertising front and center.
I have zero empathy for people essentially punishing the store owner for not being absolutely thorough by specifically seeking out high price items from the bargain bin complaining about the bargain bin price not being honored.
This is a valid point. However, if the intention was to price check cards at the cash (like the owner does for rares) then there would be no reason to put a price on the box would there?
Also, How do you explain the concept of a bargain bin on which every card is price checked at the cash? How is it a bargain bin?
Merged triple post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
I would argue that 25 cents is the average price (which anyone hunting for high price cards in there would never pay since it's probably overpaying for a lotta commons) and that it's understood that it's unsorted inventory, hence the occasional price checking that comes up. I rarely get price checked from this bin BECAUSE I don't pick through it looking for undervalued items.
You clearly have no concept of what constitutes a legal sale.
I'm guessing you're a store owner newbie that believes is entitled to all the money you want with no effort.
Label everything for 1$ and change the price at the register and see how well this goes. Protip: it won't.
lol ok, call your local AG. See what they say when you want to report a card store for selling cards for $2/each when they're marked $1/each. I would imagine it goes something like this -
"I went to a store the other day and they had cards marked for $1. He said that was an old price and wanted to charge me $2/each."
"Ok - do you feel this was deceitful or in an effort to swindle you? Is he still trying to do this?"
"Yes, I almost paid $10 for $5 of cards as marked"
"Wow, that's double. What were the cards actually worth?"
"About $100 by my calculation."
-silence-
"Hello?"
"Yes, I'm still here. And the pricing - has he changed it yet?"
"Well, he crossed out the old price with a sharpie and he's changed it now. But you can see where he crossed it out."
*hang up*
OP didn't create this thread after his first visit. He might have had a somewhat valid point then. He created the thread after the second visit, when he felt the LGS Owner had "ripped him" by looking up the prices. This is after he sort of said he maybe might be back. I ask again - if the store owner had tossed the cards back into the box without looking them up and forced the OP to look through the box again (or someone else snaked them after he put them in the box) how would everyone feel then? This is more about the fact that the LGS looked stuff up rather than the "old price as marked". OP just learned to strike while the iron is hot. He hesitated on a good deal and then got salty about it and posted it here.
Store owners make mistakes too. Sometimes it's laziness, in which case the market will sort it out. Sometimes it's an honest mistake and we all move on with our lives. I personally do not care that the OP did not get to buy his cards for $5 or $10. Too bad so sad. And some of these kids want charges pressed. Lol
I am simply amazed by some of the responses to the OP. Many of you seem willing to simply let the store owner off the hook with a wave of the hand and a "it's not his fault that he didn't update the prices. He's a small shop!"
I find those types of excuses abhorrent. If you are going to own your own business, you need to own and run it. If you can't be bothered to actually do the work, then it is most certainly your fault when someone gets a spectacular deal due to your inability to run your operation. Does anyone really want to argue this point?
The facts (as stated on first page):
Store owner has bargain bin with marked prices
OP goes through bin and picks out cards, some of which he knows are worth more than the marked prices
Store owner refuses to honor marked prices saying that they haven't been updated in years
OP still could have gotten a good deal at the higher price quoted at the register, but chose not to take it due to it not being in line with marked prices
Store owner looks up retail value of cards when OP comes back to purchase some of them
Store owner accuses OP of copping and attitude
OP leaves store and creates this thread
Should the OP have just paid the $10 price quoted on day one? Yes
Should the OP have had to pay the $10 price quoted on day one? No
Should the store owner have honored the prices marked on the bin? Yes
Should the OP have made things worse upon his return visit? No
Again, excusing the store owner's laziness by saying that he's a small shop is beyond idiotic. If you run a gaming store, have a bulk bin, and have a functioning brain with even a little shred of market knowledge, you should know enough and be able to apply a bit of logic to figure out that what were bulk cards four years ago, may not be bulk cards now. Hell, Modern is a thing, and that has drastically changed the landscape of card pricing. Just look at things like Remand, Grove of the Burnwillows, and Cryptic Command if need examples. If a store owner can't or won't grasp these concepts, that is on them, not their customers. If the OWNER feels ENTITLED to place things for sale in a retail setting, and then never update his pricing, he is deserving of being on the wrong end of a great deal. If you want to argue that point, feel free.
Finally, we have a small store near the house. I run over to play a few games here and there while the kids are sleeping and I occasionally hit an FNM or Game Day. The owner has a full-time IT job and a small staff. To avoid these exact types of issues, he will throw his trusted long-term customers a few packs to go through and sort "bulk" stuff to make sure that the bulk is really bulk. Doesn't cost him much, it's free packs for some customers, and it's fun for them to hang out in the store and do nothing but handle cards. Simple solutions can avoid big problems.
Merged double post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
Mr Sheepz, you knew that the price in retail of those cards were way beyond 10usd and he just charged you close to 10usd for them, even though they should have costed 5usd.. On that day, your so called "honor" and "work ethic" lost you more than 10usd. I would have paid the owner an extra 5 bucks and still be happi about it.
I wish stores would stop using Star City Games as a metric with which to buy/sell their cards since they generally don't have the inventory to support Star City Games' pricing.
Stores should be making up their own buy-lists/sell-lists based on the meta in their area. They shouldn't be just going to SCG to make the most money possible because they are too lazy to do their own work.
He handled it poorly because he should have said yes or no to the $10 price on the first day. Once he asked the owner to set it aside, he was in the wrong. Primarily because he didn't know if he was going to buy the things. So is the owner supposed to not look or touch the items until he comes back? Because the OP said, "Maybe I'll come back." Not, "I'll be back tomorrow for those". Just, "Maybe I'll come back" and likely said with an attitude because it was in response to him telling you of new higher prices.
What sense does that make? Maybe OP should have licked the cards, that way he could say they were truly his when he picked them out of a bulk box.
Finally, until cash changes hand, the deal isn't done. This wasn't ebay, this wasn't an auction or a deal signed in blood. OP said, "MAYBE I'll COME BACK." Hell, I'm surprised the owner even set them aside. Would OP have lost his cookies if the owner threw them back into the bulk box after he left? If the owner wanted to look up the price of that stuff, I don't see the harm in him coming back and deciding not to sell anymore. It's *his* cards. He can do what he wants. OP can try to tell other people his story but I read this and shrugged my shoulders. Magic players behaving poorly to save $5 and then salty because he lost out on scoring a major deal. So instead of looking for more deals, he's trying to sink the store that has the bulk box. Very mature.
Obviously a sale is not a sale until it is final. That's not the point. The point is that if something like this happens once a month while you are making a markup of 100-150% on everything else, as a business person, you can live with that (unless it became personal). My dad owned a business and I helped with it. Several of my brother's friends have owned businesses. By Ebay new tax rules, I have owned a business since they tax any sales over $10,000 a year now. In a business, you do whatever will make you more money.
When you buy list 20 of a card at $3 and sell at $6, you make a certain profit. If you do this 5,000 times a month, you make a profit. It is not worth letting a potential customer go over $10 in cards, unless like I said, it's personal. You have to learn to separate your personality from a business if you want to be successful. Even if there is a 1% chance that the player will come back, you give it to him for what YOU listed the cards for. Either way, you have less product to store and storing product is among one of the highest expenses as a business. Being a business means that you make money at any cost (like Dark Confidant) and I guarantee you that he lost money by acting the way he did.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
This assumes OP is spending money there on product. If OP is only purchasing under valued items (which if he took the time to pick through the bargain bin to find deals I assume he is) and buying the rest of his cards at the lowest internet prices he can find, this is not really a valuable customer to keep. Sure he can collect entry fees for him but that doesn't really make up for losing money on deals sold to OP. And while yes there is a mark up, it's not like brick and mortar shops are cheap and he has to pay all the costs associated with having a physical business address. That's not really the case with ebay deals.
The entire point of the thread is that this issue, in its entirety, was created during the initial visit. If the owner had charged the price marked on the bin, this entire incident never happens. So, this thread really is about the price marked not being the price charged. And, the owner is still in the wrong on that point. If he is too freakin' lazy to not update prices in four years, he deserves to not reap the extra profit. As I said in the post you quoted, the OP should have just paid the $10 anyway on the first visit. However, he shouldn't have had to.
If you really don't care about the actual issue at hand, refrain from further posting.
This assumes OP is spending money there on product. If OP is only purchasing under valued items (which if he took the time to pick through the bargain bin to find deals I assume he is) and buying the rest of his cards at the lowest internet prices he can find, this is not really a valuable customer to keep. Sure he can collect entry fees for him but that doesn't really make up for losing money on deals sold to OP. And while yes there is a mark up, it's not like brick and mortar shops are cheap and he has to pay all the costs associated with having a physical business address. That's not really the case with ebay deals.
You are making a huge assumption here. The OP didn't say he was looking for undervalued cards. I go through bargain bins at various stores, would you assume I am just looking for deals as well? If you do, you are dead wrong. I buy additional items at every store I patronize.
Also, if those cards were put into the bulk bin at some point, I think we can safely assume that they were bulk at that point. They appreciated afterwards and the bin was never checked. So, the store isn't "losing money" in this case, they are merely not reaping extra profit. If the store has $.25 into a card, and throws it in the $1 bulk bin, they are looking at $.75 profit. If that card appreciates to $5 and they sell it at $1, they still make $.75. They should have reaped the extra $4 profit, but missed out due to lack of care.
Merged double post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
"The facts (as stated on first page):
Store owner has bargain bin with marked prices
OP goes through bin and picks out cards, some of which he knows are worth more than the marked prices
Store owner refuses to honor marked prices saying that they haven't been updated in years
OP still could have gotten a good deal at the higher price quoted at the register, but chose not to take it due to it not being in line with marked prices
Store owner looks up retail value of cards when OP comes back to purchase some of them
Store owner accuses OP of copping and attitude
OP leaves store and creates this thread"
If OP was looking for cards he might use and not just under valued cards, he probably would have taken the original offer. But he wanted to maximize his profit on the cards. Also
"First of all, I'm not saying they should "spend all their time" combing the bulk boxes, but if you admit to not reviewing the box's contents in four years you're just not doing your job. Regardless of what you think of bargain-hunting, don't you think the store also has the responsibility to at least try to display correct prices?
Secondly, if he had explained the situation in a reasonable way, something along the lines of "this is an honest mistake and this card really shouldn't be in this box," I probably would have been okay with it. But instead, the first thing he says is that I "gave him attitude" and completely fabricated what I said to him. I'm not inclined to be on his side after that.
What good are bargain bins if you're just going to get price checked, though? Isn't that sort of the fun of them? I'm not saying I disagree with you on not taking advantage of small business owners, but if you're using your customers to sort your bulk box, that seems questionable. "
implies he was specifically bargain hunting, certainly that he was price sensitive vs actually looking for use, lastly:
" I pull out a foil Mystic Speculation and a Twisted Image, which I know are worth about $5 each, and also find a Talisman of Dominance, which looks amazing in foil. (Turns out it's also worth like $10.)....Maybe 30 at most."
If this doesn't sound like someone who cares about price and was looking for undervalued cards in the bargain bin then i don't know what to tell you. Apparently we're just not reading the same thing. Sure you can make this about the principle of the matter (which I've already made clear i disagree with that argument as well) but don't try and dispute the facts.
If OP was looking for cards he might use and not just under valued cards, he probably would have taken the original offer. But he wanted to maximize his profit on the cards.
It's not the OP's obligation to divulge his reasons for going through the bargain boxes. The retailer had boxes with price tags that the retailer didn't honor. End of discussion.
I'm not gonna loop through re-making points. This has already been addressed earlier in the topic. The owner is not obligated to sell at that price at least within the U.S., nor should he be held to that price for many other reasons already mentioned such as the possibility of customers slipping cards into the bin that aren't supposed to be there.
If you're not gonna read the discussion maybe you ought not to participate.
Just because it's not illegal (and I'm not sure whether it is, it possibly depends on the state), that doesn't mean it's not a jerk move. And that's what I mean, I don't necessarily feel legally entitled. That's not the only meaning "entitled" has.
I remember when the Conspiracy spoilers weren't up on the date when Wizards said they would be, and half the people were like, "This sucks, Wizards!" and the other half were like, "You guys are a bunch of entitled brats!" I really don't understand that impulse. Neither the Conspiracy spoiler complainers nor I believe we have some cosmic or legal right to get our way. I'm just saying, this situation sucks and the owner handled it poorly and he should have honored the prices, whether or not he legally needs to. Why do you find that so objectionable?
I'm sorry. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but how did the OP handle it poorly? Is it his job to let the store owner know of updated prices? I really don't understand the people who say that they would let the owner know all of the prices of his cards.
You know as well as everyone else here that you would buy a card for cheaper at one place rather than buy it for more at another place. The bottom line from what I read is that he wanted to buy some cards from a marked box and the owner changed the prices (not even that day, but a day after looking everything up). I bet you that he doesn't even sell the cards and when they go down in value or no one is interested, he'll wish secretly that he had less cardboard paper to store and carry.
I'll leave with 2 examples.
1. I bought a Daybreak Coronet for $3 the day after it spiked to $21 from an LGS nearby. Should I feel horribly? Should I go back and pay him $18 more? Does he really need or even care about that $18 more than myself?
2. I traded 2 extra Blood Moons that I had; 2 9th edition Blood Moons for a FOIL MM2015 Dark Confidant. The next week, the guy from my LGS told me that he didn't quite give me enough for the Blood Moons. I told him that it was all right, but he insisted, so I looked through his binder. There wasn't anything that I needed and I was okay with the trade before. The trade is done. It is not up to me to say that it wasn't fair and order him to pay me money.
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Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Most LGSs simply do not price their cards and give you an up to date price; however, they sometimes have tags.
If the salesman fails to update the price, it is his benefit by law to simply sell it to you for the lowest price. By law, he must sell it to you at the lowest marked price and if that price is less than 5$, you get it for free.
I had a case where I wanted a bunch of cheap cards and all of a sudden he takes them 1 by 1 (all labelled 1$ and under) and starts checking prices. That was before I took the habit of recording these things. After a heated argument and some dumbasses in the store trying to argue with me (other players not involved), he took the cards off the counter and stated they were no longer for sale. We aren't talking big here. It was maybe max 25$ actual value and I was buying for 15$... I even told the guy "look by law, this should be sold to me for free but I insist on paying 15$" to which he refused...
I reported them for breaking the law and now nothing they got is priced anymore.
If you want to sell goods, it is your job to update the prices and if you do not want to, then do not label them and simply state "Prices vary according to xyz".
In the case of the OP, I would've simply smiled, got out more cards, asked him to price them for me, mixed them and walk out of the store to never come back. My time is valuable and if you cannot be bothered to be a good salesman, then don't waste people's times trying to haggle.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
I would post the stores name and consider it black listed on stores I would never attend or support in anyway. It wasn't the fact that he didn't honor the posted price, which I believe is illegal, but there's probably some fuzziness about that in brick and mortar stores. I know large companies have to honor ****ed up pricing. No, what would have forced me to never come back was the owners ***** and condescending attitude.
What would I have done? Purchased the cards the first day and then tell him what they were worth after the sale then tell him I'm never coming back. I would have done that because he didn't honor the posted price.
What sense does that make? Maybe OP should have licked the cards, that way he could say they were truly his when he picked them out of a bulk box.
Finally, until cash changes hand, the deal isn't done. This wasn't ebay, this wasn't an auction or a deal signed in blood. OP said, "MAYBE I'll COME BACK." Hell, I'm surprised the owner even set them aside. Would OP have lost his cookies if the owner threw them back into the bulk box after he left? If the owner wanted to look up the price of that stuff, I don't see the harm in him coming back and deciding not to sell anymore. It's *his* cards. He can do what he wants. OP can try to tell other people his story but I read this and shrugged my shoulders. Magic players behaving poorly to save $5 and then salty because he lost out on scoring a major deal. So instead of looking for more deals, he's trying to sink the store that has the bulk box. Very mature.
Let's blacklist the store for daring to look things up! When I say "Maybe I'll come Back", I mean I'll come back! Yeah! And let's get the Attorney General on his butt because the sign on the side of the box wasn't right! These one-man LGS operations are a scourge on society! Also, let's add KFC to that because they raised the prices of their combos by 10 cents without adjusting the menu! I want my $5 back on my potential $10 purchase and then I want my .10! Yeah!
Illegal? What a laugh. So if I misprint a price on something I am obligated to sell it for that price now? If I hire someone and he goes through my store with a pricing gun and then sells all the inventory for .10 as marked to his friends...that's supposed to be legal and binding? lol - yeah, because common sense couldn't dictate that I can pull inventory entirely or just say it's not for sale. Large stores honor those mistakes to generate goodwill. They're not doing it to avoid being sued (unless they're doing it systemically)
lol I don't know if this is trolling or not but you might be a terrible and entitled customer. "By law, I need these for free!" What a joke!
Good for the LGS. I would have banned you from the shop after this incident.
Merged triple post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
I find those types of excuses abhorrent. If you are going to own your own business, you need to own and run it. If you can't be bothered to actually do the work, then it is most certainly your fault when someone gets a spectacular deal due to your inability to run your operation. Does anyone really want to argue this point?
The facts (as stated on first page):
Store owner has bargain bin with marked prices
OP goes through bin and picks out cards, some of which he knows are worth more than the marked prices
Store owner refuses to honor marked prices saying that they haven't been updated in years
OP still could have gotten a good deal at the higher price quoted at the register, but chose not to take it due to it not being in line with marked prices
Store owner looks up retail value of cards when OP comes back to purchase some of them
Store owner accuses OP of copping and attitude
OP leaves store and creates this thread
Should the OP have just paid the $10 price quoted on day one? Yes
Should the OP have had to pay the $10 price quoted on day one? No
Should the store owner have honored the prices marked on the bin? Yes
Should the OP have made things worse upon his return visit? No
Again, excusing the store owner's laziness by saying that he's a small shop is beyond idiotic. If you run a gaming store, have a bulk bin, and have a functioning brain with even a little shred of market knowledge, you should know enough and be able to apply a bit of logic to figure out that what were bulk cards four years ago, may not be bulk cards now. Hell, Modern is a thing, and that has drastically changed the landscape of card pricing. Just look at things like Remand, Grove of the Burnwillows, and Cryptic Command if need examples. If a store owner can't or won't grasp these concepts, that is on them, not their customers. If the OWNER feels ENTITLED to place things for sale in a retail setting, and then never update his pricing, he is deserving of being on the wrong end of a great deal. If you want to argue that point, feel free.
Finally, we have a small store near the house. I run over to play a few games here and there while the kids are sleeping and I occasionally hit an FNM or Game Day. The owner has a full-time IT job and a small staff. To avoid these exact types of issues, he will throw his trusted long-term customers a few packs to go through and sort "bulk" stuff to make sure that the bulk is really bulk. Doesn't cost him much, it's free packs for some customers, and it's fun for them to hang out in the store and do nothing but handle cards. Simple solutions can avoid big problems.
Because, if you know you're getting a good deal that is worth more than 10 dollars, not buying the cards because they're 10 dollars and not 5 is absurd. That would still be a good deal. The owner handled it WORSE certainly, but he wasn't innocent.
Edit: And basically walking away from a transaction does not entitle you to the same prices at a later date. He was well within his rights to check why $10 worth of cards was such a fuss for him, and when he realized he was way underpriced, he upped the price. Which is exactly what all of you would do. You would not say, ah man I made a mistake, if that kid shows up again I better eat this bad deal.
You clearly have no concept of what constitutes a legal sale.
I'm guessing you're a store owner newbie that believes is entitled to all the money you want with no effort.
Label everything for 1$ and change the price at the register and see how well this goes. Protip: it won't.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
And I'm not sure about what the law actually states - it doesn't sound right to me that store owners are legally obligated to sell a product for its marked price, but I'm no expert and I can see why a rule like that would be put in place.
Magic cards, however, occupy this weird zone in the market. Prices fluctuate a lot. Cards can change drastically in value overnight, and it seems to me that some people in this thread are pushing for or asserting that store owners are not able to change prices at the counter when they could have updated the price as recently as a couple of days ago. How often do you expect prices to be updated? Twice a week? Three times? Every day?
All this being said, I still believe the owner handled it poorly with regards to his attitude.
I got bloodstained mire for $0.10. It was in the land box.
He didn't try to trick anyone. He picked up the cards at the prices that was marked and expected to pay them at the price they were marked at. There's nothing wrong with that.
I mean, how would you feel if everytime you went to a store, you were never sure what the price would be once you reached the cash?
I don't know about the U.S. but in Canada, every item bought in a store MUST be sold at the price that's marked. If it's less than 10$, they must give you the item free of charge. This ensures that no one tries to pull a fast one.
There's been way too many cases of fraud where stores would purposely mark an item down, and then tell you that it's a higher price at the cash. Studies show that not only most people will just buy it once they're at the cash (especially if there are customers waiting behind them) but you will sell things that way that people would never have picked up had they known the price.
A few people losing some money over their own lazyness is a much better alternative than thousands of people being ripped off.
Also, you're assuming the O.P. had bad intentions. But how do you know the owner doesn't have a habit of luring ppl with those prices that he "forgot" to update, to make a few extra bucks by making ppl feel bad when they try to buy them?
This is a valid point. However, if the intention was to price check cards at the cash (like the owner does for rares) then there would be no reason to put a price on the box would there?
Also, How do you explain the concept of a bargain bin on which every card is price checked at the cash? How is it a bargain bin?
Merged triple post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
lol ok, call your local AG. See what they say when you want to report a card store for selling cards for $2/each when they're marked $1/each. I would imagine it goes something like this -
"I went to a store the other day and they had cards marked for $1. He said that was an old price and wanted to charge me $2/each."
"Ok - do you feel this was deceitful or in an effort to swindle you? Is he still trying to do this?"
"Yes, I almost paid $10 for $5 of cards as marked"
"Wow, that's double. What were the cards actually worth?"
"About $100 by my calculation."
-silence-
"Hello?"
"Yes, I'm still here. And the pricing - has he changed it yet?"
"Well, he crossed out the old price with a sharpie and he's changed it now. But you can see where he crossed it out."
*hang up*
OP didn't create this thread after his first visit. He might have had a somewhat valid point then. He created the thread after the second visit, when he felt the LGS Owner had "ripped him" by looking up the prices. This is after he sort of said he maybe might be back. I ask again - if the store owner had tossed the cards back into the box without looking them up and forced the OP to look through the box again (or someone else snaked them after he put them in the box) how would everyone feel then? This is more about the fact that the LGS looked stuff up rather than the "old price as marked". OP just learned to strike while the iron is hot. He hesitated on a good deal and then got salty about it and posted it here.
Store owners make mistakes too. Sometimes it's laziness, in which case the market will sort it out. Sometimes it's an honest mistake and we all move on with our lives. I personally do not care that the OP did not get to buy his cards for $5 or $10. Too bad so sad. And some of these kids want charges pressed. Lol
Merged double post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
Stores should be making up their own buy-lists/sell-lists based on the meta in their area. They shouldn't be just going to SCG to make the most money possible because they are too lazy to do their own work.
If you have any comments, or notice any mistakes, please let me know.
Obviously a sale is not a sale until it is final. That's not the point. The point is that if something like this happens once a month while you are making a markup of 100-150% on everything else, as a business person, you can live with that (unless it became personal). My dad owned a business and I helped with it. Several of my brother's friends have owned businesses. By Ebay new tax rules, I have owned a business since they tax any sales over $10,000 a year now. In a business, you do whatever will make you more money.
When you buy list 20 of a card at $3 and sell at $6, you make a certain profit. If you do this 5,000 times a month, you make a profit. It is not worth letting a potential customer go over $10 in cards, unless like I said, it's personal. You have to learn to separate your personality from a business if you want to be successful. Even if there is a 1% chance that the player will come back, you give it to him for what YOU listed the cards for. Either way, you have less product to store and storing product is among one of the highest expenses as a business. Being a business means that you make money at any cost (like Dark Confidant) and I guarantee you that he lost money by acting the way he did.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
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Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)The entire point of the thread is that this issue, in its entirety, was created during the initial visit. If the owner had charged the price marked on the bin, this entire incident never happens. So, this thread really is about the price marked not being the price charged. And, the owner is still in the wrong on that point. If he is too freakin' lazy to not update prices in four years, he deserves to not reap the extra profit. As I said in the post you quoted, the OP should have just paid the $10 anyway on the first visit. However, he shouldn't have had to.
If you really don't care about the actual issue at hand, refrain from further posting.
You are making a huge assumption here. The OP didn't say he was looking for undervalued cards. I go through bargain bins at various stores, would you assume I am just looking for deals as well? If you do, you are dead wrong. I buy additional items at every store I patronize.
Also, if those cards were put into the bulk bin at some point, I think we can safely assume that they were bulk at that point. They appreciated afterwards and the bin was never checked. So, the store isn't "losing money" in this case, they are merely not reaping extra profit. If the store has $.25 into a card, and throws it in the $1 bulk bin, they are looking at $.75 profit. If that card appreciates to $5 and they sell it at $1, they still make $.75. They should have reaped the extra $4 profit, but missed out due to lack of care.
Merged double post. Please use the 'multiquote' tool. - cryogen
If OP was looking for cards he might use and not just under valued cards, he probably would have taken the original offer. But he wanted to maximize his profit on the cards. Also
implies he was specifically bargain hunting, certainly that he was price sensitive vs actually looking for use, lastly:
If this doesn't sound like someone who cares about price and was looking for undervalued cards in the bargain bin then i don't know what to tell you. Apparently we're just not reading the same thing. Sure you can make this about the principle of the matter (which I've already made clear i disagree with that argument as well) but don't try and dispute the facts.
I'm not gonna loop through re-making points. This has already been addressed earlier in the topic. The owner is not obligated to sell at that price at least within the U.S., nor should he be held to that price for many other reasons already mentioned such as the possibility of customers slipping cards into the bin that aren't supposed to be there.
If you're not gonna read the discussion maybe you ought not to participate.