Start with Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker in hand, and an Assembly-Worker token on the battlefield.
Cast, counter and bring back Assembly-Worker, getting a bunch of Bloodbond March triggers.
Do the same for Changeling Beserker
Tap the Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers to bounce Changeling Berserker a bunch of times and create more tokens of Psychic Battle and whatever else, leaving two triggers left.
Play Changeling Berserker, getting a Champion and two Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Two Changeling Berserker tokens enter the battlefield; Champion Balustrade Spy and [March of the Machines[/c]
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint onto Mimic Vat.
Tap Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Beserker; that triggers Champion and Dual Nature triggers for the token copies.
Resolve Champion, and bring Chrome Mox back to the battlefield. This triggers Imprint.
Imprint Changeling Beserker onto Chrome Mox.
Tap Chrome Mox to create one red mana.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker into your library.
Resolve the Dual Nature triggers, destroying the two Changeling Berserker tokens.
Resolve the resulting Champion triggers, bringing Balustrade Spy and March of the Machines back onto the battlefield.
Balustrade Spy's ETB ability triggers, and puts Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Changeling Berserker back onto the battlefield. Get Champion and Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Balsutrade Spy.
Two token copies of Changeling Beserker enter the battlefield. Use one to Champion March of the Machines, sacrifice the other.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Assembly-Worker back onto the battlefield.
Tap the new Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a Psychic trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint the Assembly-Worker on the Mimic Vat.
Tap the Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly Worker into your library.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Berserker back to your hand.
The Changeling Beserker gets exiled, and Balustrade Spy and March of the Machines are brought back to the battlefield.
Balustrade Spy's ETB ability triggers, and Assembly-Worker is put into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger, bringing Assembly-Worker back to the battlefield.
The first time Balustrade Spy is used, it mills both Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker; I haven't yet found a way to do it with Merrow Witsniper.
Drowner of Secrets can use Changeling Berserker and summoning-sick merfolk, as well as its own Dual Nature copy, to mill cards. Does that give it enough power for this, or possibly even too much power?
Heh, I had just figured out how to accomplish the Assembly-Worker stage with Merrow Witsniper:
Start with Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker in hand, and an Assembly-Worker token on the battlefield.
Cast, counter and bring back Assembly-Worker, getting a bunch of Bloodbond March triggers.
Do the same for Changeling Beserker
Tap the Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers to bounce Changeling Berserker a bunch of times and create more tokens of Psychic Battle and whatever else, leaving three triggers left.
Play Changeling Berserker, getting a Champion and two Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Two Changeling Berserker tokens enter the battlefield; Champion Merrow Witsniper and March of the Machines.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint onto Mimic Vat.
Tap Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly-Worker into the library.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Beserker; that triggers Champion and Dual Nature triggers for the token copies.
The two token copies of Changeling Berserker are destroyed. This triggers Champion.
Chrome Mox, March of the Machines, and Merrow Witsniper are brought back onto the battlefield.
Ignore Chrome Mox's Imprint trigger.
Merrow Witsniper's ETB ability triggers, and Assembly-Worker is put into your graveyard.
Play Changeling Berserker, getting a Champion and two Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Two Changeling Berserker tokens enter the battlefield; Champion Merrow Witsniper and [March of the Machines[/c].
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Beserker; that triggers Champion and Dual Nature triggers for the token copies.
Resolve Champion, and bring Chrome Mox back to the battlefield. This triggers Imprint.
Imprint Changeling Beserker onto Chrome Mox.
Tap Chrome Mox to create one red mana.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Changeling Berserker into your library.
Resolve the Dual Nature triggers, destroying the two Changeling Berserker tokens.
Resolve the resulting Champion triggers, bringing Merrow Witsniper and March of the Machines back onto the battlefield.
Merrow Witsniper's ETB ability triggers, and puts Changeling Berserker into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Changeling Berserker back onto the battlefield. Get Champion and Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Merrow Witsniper.
Two token copies of Changeling Beserker enter the battlefield. Use one to Champion March of the Machines, sacrifice the other.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Assembly-Worker back onto the battlefield.
Tap the new Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a Psychic trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint the Assembly-Worker on the Mimic Vat.
Tap the Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly Worker into your library.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Berserker back to your hand.
The Changeling Beserker gets exiled, and Merrow Witsniper and March of the Machines are brought back to the battlefield.
Merrow Witsniper's ETB ability triggers, and Assembly-Worker is put into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger, bringing Assembly-Worker back to the battlefield.
But Drowner of Secrets would make things considerably simpler, since we can just have it and a Dual Nature copy sitting on the battlefield ready to tap at any time.
[EDIT]
Okay, it looks like Wheel of Fortune can be made to work. We start with
Cast Gideon, and activate its -4 ability to put an emblem into play that gives +1/+1 to all creatures.
Play Opalescence, Dual Nature, March of the Machines, and Snapcaster Mage, getting token copies for the last three.
Snapcaster Mage gives Wheel of Fortune flashback.
Cast Changeling Berserker, getting Champion and Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Mana Crypt.
Get two token copy of Berserker, Champion the original Berserker.
Mana Crypt comes back onto the battlefield, gets token copies.
Token copy of Berserker gets exiled, Berserker comes back into play.
Champion March of the Machines. The token copies get exiled.
Tap all three Mana Crypts for six mana.
Two token copy of Berserker comes into play, Champion the original Berserker.
March of the Machines comes back onto the battlefield.
The token copies of Berserker get exiled.
The original Berserker comes back onto the battlefield.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Get two token copies of Berserker, Champion the original Berserker.
Chrome Mox comes back onto the battlefield, gets token copies.
Imprint Flamestick Courier onto Chrome Mox.
Token copies of Berserker get exiled, the original Berserker comes back onto the battlefield.
Champion March of the Machines. The token copies get exiled.
Tap Chrome Mox for a red mana.
Cast Wheel of Fortune from the graveyard with flashback.
Two token copies of Beserker come onto the battlefield, Champion the original Berserker.
March of the Machines comes back onto the battlefield.
Cast all the above permanents except Balustrade Spy, getting token copies of all of them.
Destroy the Berserker tokens, bringing the original Berserker back onto the battlefield.
Champion March of the Machines.
Tap Mirror of Fate to put Wheel of Fortune into your library, and the rest of the library into exile.
Play Balustrade Spy.
Put Wheel of Fortune into the graveyard.
Do more Berserker shenanigans until we flicker Chrome Mox and Imprint Centaur Archer on it.
Champion March of the Machines.
Tap Chrome Mox for a red mana.
Cast Wheel of Fortune from the graveyard.
We draw the following seven cards:
Mimic Vat
Bloodbond March
Psychic Battle
Cephalid Shrine
Cowardice
Horobi, Death's Wail
Ali Baba
At this point, we get 21 triggers of Sangromancer from the seven draws. Each ability will trigger 3 Archangel of Thunes, and each of those abilities will add many +1/+1 counters to all of our creatures, which can be removed one by one to create Endbringer tokens. This will allow us a buttload of card draws, far more than enough to draw the entire deck.
So, we will be able to create more than 10 -> ... -> 1 -> 4 Sangromancers before the next Wheel of Fortune. We can cast four more Wheel of Fortunes, which will allow us to bring the number of creatures to more than 10 -> ... -> 5 -> 4, or the same estimate as the other deck. Between the two, I believe this one is ever so slightly greater, since the combo that brings the number to 10 -> ... -> 1 -> 4 uses all 26 stages, whereas in the previous deck we were only able to access 25 stages at that point.
But, I think we can increase the number to 10 -> ... -> 6 -> 4, if we can cut one card from the first 14 other than Leyline of Anticipation, to add in Sangromancer. Then we get 21 Sangromancer triggers on the second Wheel of Fortune, and can cast Archangel of Thune and Korozda Gorgon at that point, drawing all the cards one turn earlier hopefully. Does anyone see a possible cut?
[EDIT #2]
Whoops, I forgot that with Sangromancer we could switch to Drowner of Secrets. That would just make it easier though.
We use Hystrodon as the green morph. When combat comes we attack with 19 of those, made 1/2 by Korozda Gorgon and nothing else. We deal damage and get 19 extra card draws!
After we have used all those triggers to generate huge amounts of everything it is time to deal some massive damage. To do that we use Bloodshot Cyclops as our last stage red creature and throw some paragon buffed creature in the opponents face.
Okay, I figured out how to get rid of Snapcaster Mage. Enchantments can transition to green using quite a few creatures, for example Caustic Caterpillar. This allows spells to come back in for the ending of the deck with sideboard, and even looks like it makes an improvement in the deck without sideboard, as Chaos Warp can come back in:
Ray of Revelation is another way that green mana can turn into enchantment targeting, in case the first "free" cast helps to build anything up.
There's nothing that targets Spirits for blue mana alone, so as to possibly drop Izzet Guildmage and free a slot. There is still Master of the Veil as a possibility, of course, but one thing I was looking at was Walker of Secret Ways. Good enough, or would we need the extra ninja to be red instead of black?
Well, we want to have Anaba Ancestor so that we have a Minotaur stage, and thus we have transitioned to the next stage using Spirits. No Spirit seems to tap to target Spirits, but we can exit out of that state using blue mana with Izzet Guildmage, or with white or black mana using Urgent Exorcism or Rend Spirit with Snapcaster Mage. Mercenary Informer seems like a good fit later on, so we have been using Rend Spirit in the Snapcaster Mage version, which crowds out ninjas since that seems that it can only be a black-to-blue stage.
Another possibility is to exit to Kitsune Diviner, but there seems to be nothing good that targets Clerics - Wandering Mage targets Wizards also.
I was trying to get a good start and noticed that Precursor Golem + Chaos Warp might not be worth two layers after all. Specifically I think we only get one Vashiano Fangtail token per resolved Precursor Golem trigger:
When resolving such a trigger we get a lot of Chaos Warp Copies. All are put on the stack at the same time. They target something and so all trigger Psychic Battle, or Horobi, Death's Wail or Cowardice depending on what is on the battlefield. But no matter what is triggered, there is nothing between the chaos warps to kill the vashianos. So while each Chaos Warp can return the Fangtail to the battlefield that is not quite enough to get a token each time. We can only profitably use the first of the chaos warps copies.
I hope I'm missing something here. Chaos Warp would be a lot cooler than a Show and Tell that is only used once...
I think it should work. First you use a Psychic Battle trigger to activate Horobi, Death's Wail and kill the Viashino Fangtail. Then you use another Psychic Battle to target something expendable, and resolve Chaos Warp to retrieve Viashino Fangtail from the library.
Edit: oh right, the actual Chaos Warp spells are all adjacent to each other. Hmm, I guess you are right.
What about Djinn Illuminatus with Chaos Warp? Is that zero or one layer?
You can have X Djinn Illuminatus around, giving Chaos Warp the replicate ability many times. Then pay for each replicate once and you get X replicate triggers that will all put 1 chaos warp with assoziated psychic battles on the stack. No problem with Chaos Warps being too close together, so 1 layer.
Okay, without being able to gain more than one layer with any card, it looks like the Chaos Warp version doesn't exceed the Snapcaster Mage one. What we can do is remove Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and use four cards other than Chaos Warp at the end, which basically makes this version equivalent to the previous one, since we again can't use instants / sorceries. We also have Garza Zol, Plague Queen to draw extra cards, so if we use the same four cards at the end we also get 10 -> ... -> 10 -> 24 -> 4. It will take a very thorough analysis to decide which version is better!
Actually without the Snapcaster Mage we are not able to just mill instants/sorceries, so that version would only get ... -> 22 -> 4. Not quite as close, but any improvement might tip the scales.
Here's an interesting combo: Night Dealings followed by something that deals damage to a creature or player.
So say we have X Night Dealings with four or more tokens on them, and Ion Storm, along with some creature with +1/+1 counters. Remove a +1/+1 counter to activate Ion Storm; X Psychic Battle triggers go on the stack. Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger to destroy Flame Elemental, then activate a Night Dealings to retrieve Flame Elemental back to our hand so we can cast it.
So Night Dealings is one layer; adding Searing Meditation gets two layers, or adding Ion Storm / Archangel of Thune gets three layers. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is interesting, except that it can be tapped to draw cards. The problem is, we need to keep the opponent alive somehow, which would seem to take another card. So I don't see how to get up to four from there.
It would be nicer to use Angelheart Vial, since we can keep our life up, but then we can't use Searing Meditation or Archangel of Thune, or Reckless Assault. Nor can we use Chasm Skulker since Angelheart Vial draws cards, unlike Night Dealings. We could possibly use "when opponent draws a card, deal damage to target creature or player", but I found no cards that fit that profile.
[EDIT 2] Or, we could go from Archangel of Thune to Night Dealings, so we need a card that gives life gain upon retrieval from the library. Folk Medicine will work, but unfortunately large amounts of life gain doesn't help with Archangel of Thune, so Folk Medicine isn't worth a layer. We wind up with four layers, but a relatively low second to last number.
Oh wait, we can't have flashback. Duh.
[EDIT 3] I have another idea: we could use remove Emrakul, the Aeons Torn but still keep instants / sorceries, if we fetch them from the graveyard. I would like to use something like Praetor's Council, but that goes infinite because we can counter it to allow it to retrieve itself. Targeted spells like Pull From the Deep won't work either, since we can have the Replicates resolve one at a time, so we will be able to target the countered spell. Sins of the Past is interesting but runs into the same problem.
I was just looking in a similar direction, but Rebound dodged my search for spells that exile themself.
I also came across Grim Lavamancer, which could fill Emrakul's role while being the last stage creature; if it wasn't a 1/1 human wizard. Triple denied.
Without those the only way for anything to leave the graveyard without using later stages/layers are Bloodbond March triggers and we are not able to weave those around the Psychic Battle triggers to have threshold when activating the possessed ability but not when its Psychic Battle triggers resolve.
Too bad, I thought I had something. Thanks for keeping track of these things, Iijil!
So at this point, if we need to add another card to take care of removal from the graveyard, we won't be able to improve the deck with Chaos Warp unless we can add another card that adds two layers, for example a card that makes use of Precursor Golem. Soul's Majesty is an obvious card but it doesn't work.
A rules question: When we use Sins of the Past on an instant/sorcery in the graveyard, under what circumstances does the condition "If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead. " end? Only at the end of turn, no matter how many times it changes zones or how many times the condition is applied? If so, Sins of the Past will never go infinite, but it won't be that useful either; it will allow each card to be cast from the graveyard at most once. I was hoping the condition would end upon the targeted card going into your library, looking at the rule
400.7d. Abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, "When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield") can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered, if that zone is a public zone.
so perhaps the library not being a public zone would cause the condition to be erased, but to be honest it doesn't really read that way.
Sins of the Past does not have any triggered abilities. If you cast the card and something attempts to move it from the stack to the graveyard by any means (its own resolution, being countered by Cephalid Shrine, or being countered for lack of targets), it doesn't actually make it back to the graveyard, it goes to exile instead. If it makes any other zone change, either before you cast it or afterward, it loses its object identity, and the continuous effect created by Sins of the Past that looks at it is no longer doing so. Obviously, the card being shunted off to exile counts as "any other zone change", so one way or another the effect will end, and then if it goes back to the graveyard somehow it will be completely dissociated from any prior copies of Sins. Nothing will give you permission to cast it, and nothing will replace any future movements that take it to the graveyard, unless and until you target it with Sins yet again.
I remember Epic Experiment was tried in some old extended-deck cuts, under the premise that it's non-targeted and using a copy of it to fetch itself would be useless, but would it do anything here?
Thanks for the quick responses, guys! So with this ruling, Sins of the Past will go infinite.
Epic Experiment could be used, but only in decks that have a way of moving instants / sorceries from the graveyard to the library. Right now we are running into problems with deck space; if we use up a card for moving cards from the graveyard to exile or the library, and either Precursor Golem or Djinn Illuminatus, we have only two spaces for cards in addition to Chaos Warp. However, Epic Experiment could certainly play a role in the sideboard deck.
[EDIT] Brutal Expulsion is interesting, but goes infinite as well.
[EDIT 2] Going back to the sideboard deck, the non-Snapcaster Mage version is clearly the way to go.
This should reach 10 -> ... -> 10 -> 3 -> 19. (because of the two combat steps, although we have to deal damage postcombat a little at a time, rather than in one big packet)
[EDIT 3] Made a minor improvement using Arcane spells:
precursor trigger on chaoswarp <- chaos warp cast <- fireminds cast <- demand cast <- demand countered <- shoal resolved <- precursor trigger on shoal <- shoal cast <- precursor trigger on procession <- procession cast <- precursor trigger on countered procession <- procession countered <- trance resolved <- trance cast <- memoir cast <- experiment cast <- opponent damaged/has life available <- chimera trigger <- opponent draws a card
Am I missing something here? That are all the things I see that give you many of the preceeding (after resolving, making copies, being doubled etc. as appropriate). Gets my count to ... -> 19
The Version before that I count ... -> 18
Thanks for the corrections! You are correct that the decks are one layer less, because I was counting Consecrated Sphinx as a layer when in fact it wasn't. But it can easily be replaced with a layer card since we are cutting quite a few. For the last deck, we can replace Consecrated Sphinx with Pain Magnification, which gives us 10 -> ... 10 -> 3 -> 20. Ideally though, we would like a card that adds a layer prior to Selvala's Enforcer so that we can keep the second to last number at a nice fat 50+. I'm not seeing one though; going back to the Ion Storm version loses a layer. (Unless it can be followed by something similar to Archangel of Thune which adds two layers.)
[EDIT] For a moment there, I thought that adding multiple Eerie Processions might add 2 layers each, but of course having multiples goes infinite. What we would need is a card that can cast the same card rather than fetch it. Like Epic Experiment, except that card specifically doesn't do anything useful when used to cast another Epic Experiment. Finding such a card that also targeted a creature (or was an Arcane spell) might be too much to ask.
Sadly there seems to be no splice onto arcane spell that works for both of the above and can not be copied by Izzet Guildmage
And while it is neither arcane, nor targets a creature I am wondering how 2 Bring to Light interact with Djinn Illuminatus. If you find Bring to Light with Bring to Light, can you pay the replicate cost a bunch of times (using mana of all colors) and then get lot of copies that can all find 5 mana cards?
Does the spell casting really help? Presumably we still need to finish resolving the first Bring to light before we continue with the rest of the stack, even if that process involves casting another Bring to light. So the first card will still be in the graveyard and can be moved wherever by the time a a copy of the second Bring to Light resolves. So I don't think there is an easy way to stack layers without going infinite there.
Start with Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker in hand, and an Assembly-Worker token on the battlefield.
Cast, counter and bring back Assembly-Worker, getting a bunch of Bloodbond March triggers.
Do the same for Changeling Beserker
Tap the Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers to bounce Changeling Berserker a bunch of times and create more tokens of Psychic Battle and whatever else, leaving two triggers left.
Play Changeling Berserker, getting a Champion and two Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Two Changeling Berserker tokens enter the battlefield; Champion Balustrade Spy and [March of the Machines[/c]
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint onto Mimic Vat.
Tap Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Beserker; that triggers Champion and Dual Nature triggers for the token copies.
Resolve Champion, and bring Chrome Mox back to the battlefield. This triggers Imprint.
Imprint Changeling Beserker onto Chrome Mox.
Tap Chrome Mox to create one red mana.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker into your library.
Resolve the Dual Nature triggers, destroying the two Changeling Berserker tokens.
Resolve the resulting Champion triggers, bringing Balustrade Spy and March of the Machines back onto the battlefield.
Balustrade Spy's ETB ability triggers, and puts Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Changeling Berserker back onto the battlefield. Get Champion and Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Balsutrade Spy.
Two token copies of Changeling Beserker enter the battlefield. Use one to Champion March of the Machines, sacrifice the other.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Assembly-Worker back onto the battlefield.
Tap the new Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a Psychic trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint the Assembly-Worker on the Mimic Vat.
Tap the Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly Worker into your library.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Berserker back to your hand.
The Changeling Beserker gets exiled, and Balustrade Spy and March of the Machines are brought back to the battlefield.
Balustrade Spy's ETB ability triggers, and Assembly-Worker is put into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger, bringing Assembly-Worker back to the battlefield.
The first time Balustrade Spy is used, it mills both Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker; I haven't yet found a way to do it with Merrow Witsniper.
Start with Assembly-Worker and Changeling Berserker in hand, and an Assembly-Worker token on the battlefield.
Cast, counter and bring back Assembly-Worker, getting a bunch of Bloodbond March triggers.
Do the same for Changeling Beserker
Tap the Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers to bounce Changeling Berserker a bunch of times and create more tokens of Psychic Battle and whatever else, leaving three triggers left.
Play Changeling Berserker, getting a Champion and two Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Two Changeling Berserker tokens enter the battlefield; Champion Merrow Witsniper and March of the Machines.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint onto Mimic Vat.
Tap Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly-Worker into the library.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Beserker; that triggers Champion and Dual Nature triggers for the token copies.
The two token copies of Changeling Berserker are destroyed. This triggers Champion.
Chrome Mox, March of the Machines, and Merrow Witsniper are brought back onto the battlefield.
Ignore Chrome Mox's Imprint trigger.
Merrow Witsniper's ETB ability triggers, and Assembly-Worker is put into your graveyard.
Play Changeling Berserker, getting a Champion and two Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Two Changeling Berserker tokens enter the battlefield; Champion Merrow Witsniper and [March of the Machines[/c].
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Beserker; that triggers Champion and Dual Nature triggers for the token copies.
Resolve Champion, and bring Chrome Mox back to the battlefield. This triggers Imprint.
Imprint Changeling Beserker onto Chrome Mox.
Tap Chrome Mox to create one red mana.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Changeling Berserker into your library.
Resolve the Dual Nature triggers, destroying the two Changeling Berserker tokens.
Resolve the resulting Champion triggers, bringing Merrow Witsniper and March of the Machines back onto the battlefield.
Merrow Witsniper's ETB ability triggers, and puts Changeling Berserker into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Changeling Berserker back onto the battlefield. Get Champion and Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Merrow Witsniper.
Two token copies of Changeling Beserker enter the battlefield. Use one to Champion March of the Machines, sacrifice the other.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger to bring Assembly-Worker back onto the battlefield.
Tap the new Assembly-Worker token, getting a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers.
Resolve a Psychic trigger, destroying the original Assembly-Worker. This triggers Mimic Vat.
Imprint the Assembly-Worker on the Mimic Vat.
Tap the Mimic Vat to create an Assembly-Worker token.
Tap Mirror of Fate to bring Assembly Worker into your library.
Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger, bouncing Changeling Berserker back to your hand.
The Changeling Beserker gets exiled, and Merrow Witsniper and March of the Machines are brought back to the battlefield.
Merrow Witsniper's ETB ability triggers, and Assembly-Worker is put into your graveyard.
Resolve a Bloodbond March trigger, bringing Assembly-Worker back to the battlefield.
But Drowner of Secrets would make things considerably simpler, since we can just have it and a Dual Nature copy sitting on the battlefield ready to tap at any time.
[EDIT]
Okay, it looks like Wheel of Fortune can be made to work. We start with
Mana Crypt
Chrome Mox
Goblin Tunneler
Show and Tell
Omniscience
Leyline of Anticipation
Wheel of Fortune
Do the usual to put Omniscience into play. Cast Leyline and then Wheel of Fortune.
We draw:
Snapcaster Mage
Changeling Berserker
March of the Machines
Dual Nature
Opalescence
Flamestick Courier
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Cast Gideon, and activate its -4 ability to put an emblem into play that gives +1/+1 to all creatures.
Play Opalescence, Dual Nature, March of the Machines, and Snapcaster Mage, getting token copies for the last three.
Snapcaster Mage gives Wheel of Fortune flashback.
Cast Changeling Berserker, getting Champion and Dual Nature triggers.
Champion Mana Crypt.
Get two token copy of Berserker, Champion the original Berserker.
Mana Crypt comes back onto the battlefield, gets token copies.
Token copy of Berserker gets exiled, Berserker comes back into play.
Champion March of the Machines. The token copies get exiled.
Tap all three Mana Crypts for six mana.
Two token copy of Berserker comes into play, Champion the original Berserker.
March of the Machines comes back onto the battlefield.
The token copies of Berserker get exiled.
The original Berserker comes back onto the battlefield.
Champion Chrome Mox.
Get two token copies of Berserker, Champion the original Berserker.
Chrome Mox comes back onto the battlefield, gets token copies.
Imprint Flamestick Courier onto Chrome Mox.
Token copies of Berserker get exiled, the original Berserker comes back onto the battlefield.
Champion March of the Machines. The token copies get exiled.
Tap Chrome Mox for a red mana.
Cast Wheel of Fortune from the graveyard with flashback.
Next, we draw the following seven cards:
Mirror of Fate
Balustrade Spy
Sangromancer
Archangel of Thune
Korozda Gorgon
Centaur Archer
Endbringer
Two token copies of Beserker come onto the battlefield, Champion the original Berserker.
March of the Machines comes back onto the battlefield.
Cast all the above permanents except Balustrade Spy, getting token copies of all of them.
Destroy the Berserker tokens, bringing the original Berserker back onto the battlefield.
Champion March of the Machines.
Tap Mirror of Fate to put Wheel of Fortune into your library, and the rest of the library into exile.
Play Balustrade Spy.
Put Wheel of Fortune into the graveyard.
Do more Berserker shenanigans until we flicker Chrome Mox and Imprint Centaur Archer on it.
Champion March of the Machines.
Tap Chrome Mox for a red mana.
Cast Wheel of Fortune from the graveyard.
We draw the following seven cards:
Mimic Vat
Bloodbond March
Psychic Battle
Cephalid Shrine
Cowardice
Horobi, Death's Wail
Ali Baba
At this point, we get 21 triggers of Sangromancer from the seven draws. Each ability will trigger 3 Archangel of Thunes, and each of those abilities will add many +1/+1 counters to all of our creatures, which can be removed one by one to create Endbringer tokens. This will allow us a buttload of card draws, far more than enough to draw the entire deck.
So, we will be able to create more than 10 -> ... -> 1 -> 4 Sangromancers before the next Wheel of Fortune. We can cast four more Wheel of Fortunes, which will allow us to bring the number of creatures to more than 10 -> ... -> 5 -> 4, or the same estimate as the other deck. Between the two, I believe this one is ever so slightly greater, since the combo that brings the number to 10 -> ... -> 1 -> 4 uses all 26 stages, whereas in the previous deck we were only able to access 25 stages at that point.
But, I think we can increase the number to 10 -> ... -> 6 -> 4, if we can cut one card from the first 14 other than Leyline of Anticipation, to add in Sangromancer. Then we get 21 Sangromancer triggers on the second Wheel of Fortune, and can cast Archangel of Thune and Korozda Gorgon at that point, drawing all the cards one turn earlier hopefully. Does anyone see a possible cut?
[EDIT #2]
Whoops, I forgot that with Sangromancer we could switch to Drowner of Secrets. That would just make it easier though.
We use Hystrodon as the green morph. When combat comes we attack with 19 of those, made 1/2 by Korozda Gorgon and nothing else. We deal damage and get 19 extra card draws!
After we have used all those triggers to generate huge amounts of everything it is time to deal some massive damage. To do that we use Bloodshot Cyclops as our last stage red creature and throw some paragon buffed creature in the opponents face.
That should get 10 -> ... -> 10 -> 24 -> 4
Okay, I figured out how to get rid of Snapcaster Mage. Enchantments can transition to green using quite a few creatures, for example Caustic Caterpillar. This allows spells to come back in for the ending of the deck with sideboard, and even looks like it makes an improvement in the deck without sideboard, as Chaos Warp can come back in:
2 Changeling Berserker
3 Ali Baba
4 Assembly-Worker
5 Rust Tick
6 Archetype of Endurance
7 Caustic Caterpillar
8 Everbark Shaman
9 Black Poplar Shaman
10 Felhide Brawler
11 Anaba Ancestor
12 Mindshrieker
13 Urgent Exorcism
14 Garza Zol, Plague Queen
15 Baron Sengir
16 Empress Galina
17 Merfolk Sovereign
18 Seahunter
19 Mercenary Informer
20 Boreal Griffin
21 Boreal Druid
22 Ohran Yeti
24 Nectar Faerie
25 Ghosthelm Courier
26 Possessed Aven
27 Grassland Crusader
28 Possessed Nomad
29 Shauku's Minion
30 Centaur Archer
31 Maze Glider
32 Paragon of Eternal Wilds
33 Devout Chaplain
34 Royal Assassin
35 Goblin Tunneler
36 Flamestick Courier
37 Dralnu's Crusade
38 Frightshroud Courier
39 Paragon of Open Graves
40 Viashino Fangtail
41 Chaos Warp
42 Consecrated Sphinx
43 Selvala's Enforcer
45 Horobi, Death's Wail
46 Chrome Mox
47 Mirror Gallery
48 Bloodbond March
49 Cephalid Shrine
50 Cowardice
51 Mimic Vat
52 Psychic Battle
53 Omniscience
54 Leyline of Anticipation
55 Opalescence
56 March of the Machines
57 Mirror of Fate
58 Mana Crypt
59 Izzet Guildmage
60 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
It looks like it reaches 10 -> ... -> 10 -> X -> 4 with X > 50, since we have Chaos Warp and Consecrated Sphinx to back up Selvala's Enforcer.
There's nothing that targets Spirits for blue mana alone, so as to possibly drop Izzet Guildmage and free a slot. There is still Master of the Veil as a possibility, of course, but one thing I was looking at was Walker of Secret Ways. Good enough, or would we need the extra ninja to be red instead of black?
Another possibility is to exit to Kitsune Diviner, but there seems to be nothing good that targets Clerics - Wandering Mage targets Wizards also.
We can replace Caustic Caterpillar and Everbark Shaman with Wickerbough Elder, saving a card and allowing us to stick in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. That seems to make the above deck work.
When resolving such a trigger we get a lot of Chaos Warp Copies. All are put on the stack at the same time. They target something and so all trigger Psychic Battle, or Horobi, Death's Wail or Cowardice depending on what is on the battlefield. But no matter what is triggered, there is nothing between the chaos warps to kill the vashianos. So while each Chaos Warp can return the Fangtail to the battlefield that is not quite enough to get a token each time. We can only profitably use the first of the chaos warps copies.
I hope I'm missing something here. Chaos Warp would be a lot cooler than a Show and Tell that is only used once...
Edit: oh right, the actual Chaos Warp spells are all adjacent to each other. Hmm, I guess you are right.
What about Djinn Illuminatus with Chaos Warp? Is that zero or one layer?
So, it looks like the Chaos Warp deck goes down to 3 layers. I believe that we can replace Consecrated Sphinx with Soul's Majesty, getting back up to 4 layers.
2 Changeling Berserker
3 Ali Baba
4 Assembly-Worker
5 Rust Tick
6 Archetype of Endurance
7 Wickerbough Elder
8 Black Poplar Shaman
9 Felhide Brawler
10 Anaba Ancestor
11 Mindshrieker
12 Urgent Exorcism
13 Garza Zol, Plague Queen
14 Baron Sengir
15 Empress Galina
16 Merfolk Sovereign
17 Seahunter
18 Mercenary Informer
19 Boreal Griffin
20 Boreal Druid
21 Ohran Yeti
23 Nectar Faerie
24 Ghosthelm Courier
25 Possessed Aven
26 Grassland Crusader
27 Possessed Nomad
28 Shauku's Minion
29 Centaur Archer
30 Maze Glider
31 Paragon of Eternal Wilds
32 Devout Chaplain
33 Royal Assassin
34 Goblin Tunneler
35 Flamestick Courier
36 Dralnu's Crusade
37 Frightshroud Courier
38 Paragon of Open Graves
39 Viashino Fangtail
40 Chaos Warp
41 Soul's Majesty
42 Selvala's Enforcer
44 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
45 Horobi, Death's Wail
46 Chrome Mox
47 Mirror Gallery
48 Bloodbond March
49 Cephalid Shrine
50 Cowardice
51 Mimic Vat
52 Psychic Battle
53 Omniscience
54 Leyline of Anticipation
55 Opalescence
56 March of the Machines
57 Mirror of Fate
58 Mana Crypt
59 Izzet Guildmage
60 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
[EDIT] It looks we can add another layer by replacing Selvala's Enforcer with Night Dealings.
Okay, without being able to gain more than one layer with any card, it looks like the Chaos Warp version doesn't exceed the Snapcaster Mage one. What we can do is remove Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and use four cards other than Chaos Warp at the end, which basically makes this version equivalent to the previous one, since we again can't use instants / sorceries. We also have Garza Zol, Plague Queen to draw extra cards, so if we use the same four cards at the end we also get 10 -> ... -> 10 -> 24 -> 4. It will take a very thorough analysis to decide which version is better!
So say we have X Night Dealings with four or more tokens on them, and Ion Storm, along with some creature with +1/+1 counters. Remove a +1/+1 counter to activate Ion Storm; X Psychic Battle triggers go on the stack. Resolve a Psychic Battle trigger to destroy Flame Elemental, then activate a Night Dealings to retrieve Flame Elemental back to our hand so we can cast it.
So Night Dealings is one layer; adding Searing Meditation gets two layers, or adding Ion Storm / Archangel of Thune gets three layers. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is interesting, except that it can be tapped to draw cards. The problem is, we need to keep the opponent alive somehow, which would seem to take another card. So I don't see how to get up to four from there.
It would be nicer to use Angelheart Vial, since we can keep our life up, but then we can't use Searing Meditation or Archangel of Thune, or Reckless Assault. Nor can we use Chasm Skulker since Angelheart Vial draws cards, unlike Night Dealings. We could possibly use "when opponent draws a card, deal damage to target creature or player", but I found no cards that fit that profile.
[EDIT] Perhaps we can go Korozda Gorgon / Archangel of Thune / Angelheart Vial. But what would the fourth card be? Winter Sky is a possibility, but I don't see how to get started with that.
[EDIT 2] Or, we could go from Archangel of Thune to Night Dealings, so we need a card that gives life gain upon retrieval from the library. Folk Medicine will work, but unfortunately large amounts of life gain doesn't help with Archangel of Thune, so Folk Medicine isn't worth a layer. We wind up with four layers, but a relatively low second to last number.
Oh wait, we can't have flashback. Duh.
[EDIT 3] I have another idea: we could use remove Emrakul, the Aeons Torn but still keep instants / sorceries, if we fetch them from the graveyard. I would like to use something like Praetor's Council, but that goes infinite because we can counter it to allow it to retrieve itself. Targeted spells like Pull From the Deep won't work either, since we can have the Replicates resolve one at a time, so we will be able to target the countered spell. Sins of the Past is interesting but runs into the same problem.
{EDIT 4}Yes, I think I have it: Surreal Memoir. This can retrieve Chaos Warp from the graveyard but not itself, since it is a sorcery. So we can go Chaos Warp / Surreal Memoir / Consecrated Sphinx / Selvala's Enforcer. I believe this will get us 10 -> ... -> 10 -> X -> 4 with X >= 50.
I was just looking in a similar direction, but Rebound dodged my search for spells that exile themself.
I also came across Grim Lavamancer, which could fill Emrakul's role while being the last stage creature; if it wasn't a 1/1 human wizard. Triple denied.
Edit: Ugh, I just remembered another problem that we had before. Without Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Snapcaster Mage or Everbark Shaman how do we switch Threshold on/off for the Possessed Aven stage?
Without those the only way for anything to leave the graveyard without using later stages/layers are Bloodbond March triggers and we are not able to weave those around the Psychic Battle triggers to have threshold when activating the possessed ability but not when its Psychic Battle triggers resolve.
So at this point, if we need to add another card to take care of removal from the graveyard, we won't be able to improve the deck with Chaos Warp unless we can add another card that adds two layers, for example a card that makes use of Precursor Golem. Soul's Majesty is an obvious card but it doesn't work.
A rules question: When we use Sins of the Past on an instant/sorcery in the graveyard, under what circumstances does the condition "If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead. " end? Only at the end of turn, no matter how many times it changes zones or how many times the condition is applied? If so, Sins of the Past will never go infinite, but it won't be that useful either; it will allow each card to be cast from the graveyard at most once. I was hoping the condition would end upon the targeted card going into your library, looking at the rule
400.7d. Abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, "When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield") can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered, if that zone is a public zone.
so perhaps the library not being a public zone would cause the condition to be erased, but to be honest it doesn't really read that way.
I remember Epic Experiment was tried in some old extended-deck cuts, under the premise that it's non-targeted and using a copy of it to fetch itself would be useless, but would it do anything here?
Epic Experiment could be used, but only in decks that have a way of moving instants / sorceries from the graveyard to the library. Right now we are running into problems with deck space; if we use up a card for moving cards from the graveyard to exile or the library, and either Precursor Golem or Djinn Illuminatus, we have only two spaces for cards in addition to Chaos Warp. However, Epic Experiment could certainly play a role in the sideboard deck.
[EDIT] Brutal Expulsion is interesting, but goes infinite as well.
[EDIT 2] Going back to the sideboard deck, the non-Snapcaster Mage version is clearly the way to go.
2 Changeling Berserker
3 Ali Baba
4 Assembly-Worker
5 Rust Tick
6 Archetype of Endurance
7 Wickerbough Elder
8 Black Poplar Shaman
9 Felhide Brawler
10 Anaba Ancestor
11 Mindshrieker
12 Urgent Exorcism
13 Garza Zol, Plague Queen
14 Baron Sengir
15 Empress Galina
16 Merfolk Sovereign
17 Seahunter
18 Mercenary Informer
19 Boreal Griffin
20 Boreal Druid
21 Ohran Yeti
22 Everglove Courier
23 Nectar Faerie
24 Ghosthelm Courier
25 Possessed Aven
27 Possessed Nomad
28 Shauku's Minion
29 Centaur Archer
30 Maze Glider
31 Paragon of Eternal Wilds
32 Devout Chaplain
33 Royal Assassin
34 Goblin Tunneler
35 Flamestick Courier
36 Dralnu's Crusade
37 Frightshroud Courier
38 Paragon of Open Graves
39 Viashino Fangtail
40 Chaos Warp
41 Firemind's Foresight
42 Supply // Demand
43 Stromgald Cabal
44 Poison Arrow
45 Sage's Knowledge
46 Psychic Trance
47 Night Dealings
48 Horizon Chimera
49 Consecrated Sphinx
50 Words of Wisdom
51 Pain Magnification
52 Repercussion
53 Five-Alarm Fire
55 Precursor Golem
56 Djinn Illuminatus
57 Donate
58 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
59 Horobi, Death's Wail
60 Chrome Mox
61 Mirror Gallery
62 Bloodbond March
63 Invoke Prejudice
64 Cowardice
65 Mimic Vat
66 Psychic Battle
67 Omniscience
68 Leyline of Anticipation
69 Opalescence
70 March of the Machines
71 Mirror of Fate
72 Mana Crypt
73 Izzet Guildmage
74 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
75 Living Wish
This should reach 10 -> ... -> 10 -> 3 -> 19. (because of the two combat steps, although we have to deal damage postcombat a little at a time, rather than in one big packet)
[EDIT 3] Made a minor improvement using Arcane spells:
2 Changeling Berserker
3 Ali Baba
4 Assembly-Worker
5 Rust Tick
6 Archetype of Endurance
7 Wickerbough Elder
8 Black Poplar Shaman
9 Felhide Brawler
10 Anaba Ancestor
11 Mindshrieker
12 Urgent Exorcism
13 Garza Zol, Plague Queen
14 Baron Sengir
15 Empress Galina
16 Merfolk Sovereign
17 Seahunter
18 Mercenary Informer
19 Boreal Griffin
20 Boreal Druid
21 Ohran Yeti
22 Everglove Courier
23 Nectar Faerie
24 Ghosthelm Courier
25 Possessed Aven
27 Possessed Nomad
28 Shauku's Minion
29 Centaur Archer
30 Maze Glider
31 Paragon of Eternal Wilds
32 Devout Chaplain
33 Royal Assassin
34 Goblin Tunneler
35 Flamestick Courier
36 Dralnu's Crusade
37 Frightshroud Courier
38 Paragon of Open Graves
39 Viashino Fangtail
40 Chaos Warp
41 Firemind's Foresight
42 Supply // Demand
43 Stromgald Cabal
44 Nourishing Shoal
45 Eerie Procession
46 Psychic Trance
47 Surreal Memoir
48 Epic Experiment
49 Night Dealings
50 Horizon Chimera
51 Consecrated Sphinx
52 Words of Wisdom
54 Boon Reflection
55 Precursor Golem
56 Djinn Illuminatus
57 Donate
58 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
59 Horobi, Death's Wail
60 Chrome Mox
61 Mirror Gallery
62 Bloodbond March
63 Invoke Prejudice
64 Cowardice
65 Mimic Vat
66 Psychic Battle
67 Omniscience
68 Leyline of Anticipation
69 Opalescence
70 March of the Machines
71 Mirror of Fate
72 Mana Crypt
73 Izzet Guildmage
74 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
75 Living Wish
Should reach 10 -> ... 10 -> 50+ -> 20.
Am I missing something here? That are all the things I see that give you many of the preceeding (after resolving, making copies, being doubled etc. as appropriate). Gets my count to ... -> 19
The Version before that I count ... -> 18
Consecrated Sphinx is not actually useful, replacing that and Words of Wisdom with Selvala's Enforcer should save a card. The start should still be fast thanks to Chaos Warp and all the other layers.
As a minor note: Invoke Prejudice requires Starfield of Nyx instead of Opalescence so blue creatures are countered and if you want to use Pain Magnification something like Reito Lantern should replace Emrakul, the Aeons Torn so it works for the opponent.
2 Changeling Berserker
3 Ali Baba
4 Assembly-Worker
5 Rust Tick
6 Archetype of Endurance
7 Wickerbough Elder
8 Black Poplar Shaman
9 Felhide Brawler
10 Anaba Ancestor
11 Mindshrieker
12 Urgent Exorcism
13 Garza Zol, Plague Queen
14 Baron Sengir
15 Empress Galina
16 Merfolk Sovereign
17 Seahunter
18 Mercenary Informer
19 Boreal Griffin
20 Boreal Druid
21 Ohran Yeti
22 Everglove Courier
23 Nectar Faerie
24 Ghosthelm Courier
25 Possessed Aven
27 Possessed Nomad
28 Shauku's Minion
29 Centaur Archer
30 Maze Glider
31 Paragon of Eternal Wilds
32 Devout Chaplain
33 Royal Assassin
34 Goblin Tunneler
35 Flamestick Courier
36 Dralnu's Crusade
37 Frightshroud Courier
38 Paragon of Open Graves
39 Viashino Fangtail
40 Chaos Warp
41 Firemind's Foresight
42 Supply // Demand
43 Stromgald Cabal
44 Nourishing Shoal
45 Eerie Procession
46 Psychic Trance
47 Surreal Memoir
48 Epic Experiment
49 Night Dealings
50 Horizon Chimera
51 Selvala's Enforcer
52 Pain Magnification
54 Boon Reflection
55 Precursor Golem
56 Djinn Illuminatus
57 Donate
58 Reito Lantern
59 Horobi, Death's Wail
60 Chrome Mox
61 Mirror Gallery
62 Bloodbond March
63 Invoke Prejudice
64 Cowardice
65 Mimic Vat
66 Psychic Battle
67 Omniscience
68 Leyline of Anticipation
69 Starfield of Nyx
70 March of the Machines
71 Mirror of Fate
72 Mana Crypt
73 Izzet Guildmage
74 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
75 Living Wish
[EDIT] For a moment there, I thought that adding multiple Eerie Processions might add 2 layers each, but of course having multiples goes infinite. What we would need is a card that can cast the same card rather than fetch it. Like Epic Experiment, except that card specifically doesn't do anything useful when used to cast another Epic Experiment. Finding such a card that also targeted a creature (or was an Arcane spell) might be too much to ask.
Firemind's Foresight can find Nousrishing Shoal breaking the layer order, but there are alternatives for the shoal.
Overblaze can be used to trigger Pain Magnification. There are alternative splice onto arcane spells that target.
Sadly there seems to be no splice onto arcane spell that works for both of the above and can not be copied by Izzet Guildmage
And while it is neither arcane, nor targets a creature I am wondering how 2 Bring to Light interact with Djinn Illuminatus. If you find Bring to Light with Bring to Light, can you pay the replicate cost a bunch of times (using mana of all colors) and then get lot of copies that can all find 5 mana cards?
Does the spell casting really help? Presumably we still need to finish resolving the first Bring to light before we continue with the rest of the stack, even if that process involves casting another Bring to light. So the first card will still be in the graveyard and can be moved wherever by the time a a copy of the second Bring to Light resolves. So I don't think there is an easy way to stack layers without going infinite there.