Found an infinite we missed for a while, but its an easy fix.
We need to swap molten slagheap for something that can't make a bunch of red with doubling season (I think mountain is fine?), or just swap doubling season for primal vigor or similar as the bonus to counters is unnecessary.
I think other than that small change we are fine.
The start is super simple with Pirate's prize.
getting big enough numbers for the first computation is easy with drake familiar and Dual nature and mana echoes.
Setup for the first computation only requires the added wrinkle of activating scarecrow.
The life/Retract stage has been examined very closely and is solid.
Similarly, this new worldfire transition is clearly unexploitable.
Blue hasn't changed at all in a while and is the same logic as artifacts/life so no problem there.
White is also solid, Guardian of the Guildpact is still the only white creature.
And the ending is just simple layers.
ending with 2xReality Spasm does seem suboptimal, but I can't find anything better.
Maybe with kaldheim bringing back snow mana we'll have another resource to play with.
Thinking about alternative layer sequences I had a few ideas. Using Widespread Panic to refill the library seems good, since shuffling is quite a common thing. Trail of Mystery to link into Widespread Panic seems like an interesting possibility, although I haven't found too many ways to link to it; combat damage seems like the most common way. Arbiter of the Ideal can also work. So one possibility is:
Layer 0 - Resolving a Pirate's Prize creates a lot of Treasure tokens
Layer 1 - Shuffling your library triggers a lot of Widespread Panics
Layer 2 - Putting a card onto the battlefield face down triggers a lot of Trial of Mystery
Layer 3 - Resolving a Curse of Bounty untaps a lot of Arbiter of the Ideal
Layer 4 - Attacking triggers a lot of Curse of Bounties
Layer 5 - Each main phase we can create a lot of combat phases
Layer 6 - World at War creates many main phases
Layer 0 - Nyx Diamond taps for a lot of mana
Layer 1 - Tolarian Kraken can untap Nyx Diamond many times
Layer 2 - Shuffling your library triggers a lot of Widespread Panics
Layer 3 - Putting a card onto the battlefield face down triggers a lot of Trail of Mystery
Layer 4-6 Reality Spasm
This has the potential to beat the other two 6 layer sequences, provided we can put enough Reality Spasms in the deck. Trying to make a deck out of this, the best I could do is:
So two Reality Spasms, which only puts it into a rough tie with the other two at BB_{w^2+w2+6} (BB_{w^2+w2+5} (X))). Looks like the Renegade Map version is still ahead with its two Reality Spasms.
Also manifesting or morphing creatures is almost risky as the opponent can wait and un-manifest Aegis Automaton or whatever morph in the middle of a computation, but face down creatures have no types and die very quickly to arcbond, so its safe. Nosy goblin looks even riskier, but it can't have a target during computation so it'd be safe.
That's 6 layers, but unfortunately just one Repeal is not enough to put it ahead. If we can save at least one card slot, a second Repeal will put this deck ahead. (assuming I haven't missed something, of course)
We could also use Chandra, Flame's Catalyst at the end coupled with Whim of Volrath, to cast an instant like Reality Spasm or Repeal many times. Unfortunately, it doesn't combo with Harness the Storm, but Chandra seems to have an advantage in that we don't have to waste a copy of the instant putting it in the graveyard.
Edit: We can have a more efficient setup using Marchesa's Smuggler and Contraband Kingpin, saving a card. Unfortunately, the last deck actually had 61 cards, so we are still at just one Repeal.
Yeah. It looks like we don't need to add +1/+1 counters to make the combo work - but even without +1/+1 counters, we can still donate the manifested Lotus Petal, and then turn it over with Ixidor once the opponent has it.
It seems like it can work though, if we can only turn our own cards face up. Skirk Alarimist would fit the bill, except it has haste. Is there some way to make it so we can turn our own cards face up, but not those of our opponent?
a flicker effect makes it a new object and therefore no Dual nature triggers.
so I think Skirk alarmist is the only way. But haste is a big problem. I don't see a way around it.
The closest I can hope for is a hypothetical "Commander Falter 2R Target opponent can't block until your next turn. Draw a card." and have that be our only source of card draw so we need to cast it in the setup.
Or symmetrically "bad fog 2w Creatures can't attack this turn. draw a card"
I'm looking again at possible replacements for Acorn Harvest. Lowering the life payment requirement could be nice, and especially getting rid of the requirement for green mana could help the ending layers.
Making use of Nihilistic Glee draw ability could be helpful, but just putting in a sorcery that shuffles itself in (like Beacon of Tomorrows) doesn't seem to quite work, as we need to counter it to use it multiple times in the stage, and countering it will prevent it from shuffling itself back in the library. A spell that always shuffled itself in would be nice, but I didn't see a sorcery like that.
A possible alternative would be using Nihilistic Glee to draw something that enabled the sorcery cast, without being the sorcery itself. So a Jump-Start card, discarding a card that shuffled itself into the library (like maybe Blightsteel Colossus) could work. Unfortunately, all the Jump-Start cards are red or blue, too expensive.
Looking back at FortyTwo's idea of using Spitting Image, we could perhaps discard a land to pay for the cast, use something to put the card in the library, and then use Nihilistic Glee to draw it again. Glowspore Shaman seems to fit the bill. Using Spitting Image to create a copy of Vedalken Orrery would seem to eliminate the need for the Masterwork of Ingenuity combo, allowing us to save 3 cards.
So, it looks like we now have 5 extra card slots, beyond what is needed for the main combo and six additional layers. Unfortuntely, I still don't know what to do with them. Freeing up green mana might help, but we still need green for Spitting Image. I suppose that we could use Pillar of the Paruns to pay for Spitting Image, but we still have Glowspore Shaman providing green mana anyway. I'll keep looking for ways to free up green mana.
Looks good, though I think we need flying and lifelink on the same creature. (Alternatively, replace Scarecrow for another artifact creature + another damage preventer, e.g. Runed Halo).
Ah yes, we would need the arcbond creatures to have flying, and at least one to have lifelink. I don't know how to change the cards around without losing a card, unless we get rid of Marchesa's Smuggler, and go back to Sphinx of the Second Sun. But that switch loses us a BB_{w^2+w2+5}, which is equal to one Reality Spasm. So it works out the same as having one less Reality Spasm.
Is there some replacement for Curse of Bounty that doesn't require attacking?
Hmm, one way to be able to have Skirk Alarmist, is to only be able to deal damage during a single combat phase. This of course will eliminate World at War, but with an extra layer we can bump Reality Spasm up to layer 6, which would be better if we can cast it for maximum effect more than once.
Unfortunately, we are back to not enough card slots again. The Lotus Petal combo requires two extra cards, and we also have to get rid of Gravitic Punch. Unless we find another way for our triggering sorcery to gain life, that means adding Starlight back in, which in turn means adding Panharmonicon back in. So that's four extra cards we need. Without the need for Marchesa's Smuggler, we can save one card, but we still only have room for two Reality Spasms, one short of being able to improve over the previous deck.
Looking for ways to cut cards, I was wondering if we could use something like Harmony of Nature if we can't use Gravitic Punch, using Recoup to give it flashback. But, we can get lots of copies of Recoup with copies of Thousand-Year Storm, and therefore give Harmony of Nature flashback many different times, allowing us to build up red mana. If we tried to give flashback to a red sorcery rather than a green sorcery, we would have the overhead of the red mana for the Recoup, so that would limit how many times we could give flashback, and we wouldn't get a full hyperstage out of it. So I'm having a hard time trying to cut the Starlight and Panharmonicon.
In terms of alternate endings, I'm trying to think of ways we can use Chandra, Flame's Catalyst. My first thought was to pair it with Kaya the Inexorable, which will give us emblems to cast it during an upkeep. So we could combine that combo with Sphinx of the Second Sun and World at War. Unfortunately, even though we are able to get many upkeeps per main phase, and many emblems to cast Chandra per upkeep, we have to wait until a main phase to use it, so this only gets us six layers I believe, and it requires more cards than our current best deck. If we try to fix this by adding Teferi, Temporal Archmage, that will allow us to use a loyalty ability during a computation, like Kaya's -3.
Another thought was to combine Chandra, Flame's Catalyst with The Chain Veil. We would stop ourselves from continually activating Chandra's +1 ability by limiting the opponent's life. Unfortunately, Worldfire sets the opponent's life total to 1, so we won't be able to use the +1 ability once we resolve a Worldfire, unless we have some limited way to add to the opponent's life. Platinum Emperion will be exiled by Worldfire before it can prevent Worldfire from setting the opponent's life to 1. X instants like Heliod's Intervention won't be limited, since Chandra can cast it.
We can still get to layer 6 just by activating it many times, so multiple Chandras would put us ahead. But, not allowing the opponent to gain life easily means we can't have a lifelinked creature, since that can gain the opponent life during a computation. This means resolving Gravitic Punch won't gain us life, so we will still need Starlight + Panharmonicon. Also, we can't use Runed Halo since the opponent could use it to prevent damage from Chandra, so I went back to Chameleon Blur plus Leyline of Punishment. In the end, I could only fit in one copy of Chandra, not enough to put it ahead:
Ah; it does work, as we can order the cast triggers to put a TYS[Spitting Image] trigger after each Volute[Retract] trigger (with Volute[PFE] triggers in between as needed too).
yeah, I'm not sure on the optimal ordering of the triggers as after volute triggers on Artificial Evolution and Arcbond, we can actually trigger a computation with the next TYS for spitting image, we don't even need to get flash back.
hmm it's actually not quite that simple, as any animated enchantments would die and we need march of the machines to die early so that coat of arms does not.
possibly adding phantasmal form to give the few artifacts/enchantments we need to live a creature type could work?
it seems safe for computation as we'd need to cast it in setup, but it'd deck us when we need to cast it after worldfire... Maybe Shade's breath? or standardize? wings of velis vel?
Can we just arrange for some DN triggers to be on the stack after a computation? Creating a starfield of nyx and a march is sufficient for the next spitting image to copy whatever we need from the opponent.
Though, March is a bit awkward to bounce at instant speed since it makes Soul Separator not work.
(edit: or we just directly get triggers for orrery and omni which is probably easier)
if the computation gets triggered by a spitting image then yeah we run into those problems I mentioned above, as the earliest DN triggers under it are under the whole TYS/Volute section.
But Soul Separator works to trigger it, though it is a bit tricky to manage with march of the machines/no haste, it seems possible.
we just retracted, so we have soul separator in hand, we play march of the machines if it isnt in play, then make a bunch of soul separators.
Then we resolve the next spitting image and use Drake familiar to bounce march of the machines (and any real TYS/DN/etc).
then we recast starfield of nyx, make a blank mirrormade, for DN triggers.
we can then activate soul separators, recast march making a token march, then resolve a soul separator on drake familiar and bounce the real march, and then one on the giant.
and the computation goes.
then we resolve down to the DN triggers for mirrormade and regain flash, and setup for the next iteration.
I think I've found a better ending sequence. But, it doesn't work with cheap card draw, so it's incompatible with the current Spitting Image plan. So, I've gone back to the Master of Ingenuity combo. Fortunately, it still fits.
That should be seven layers at the end if I'm not mistaken.
I'd still like to see an improvement over the Masterwork of Ingenuity combo. Maybe using Spitting Image could be made to work, without enabling us to draw.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
We do need to be careful about creating copies of treasures but since they all die to march of the machines that seems fine.
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Bludgeon Brawl
13 Masterwork of Ingenuity
14 Sigarda's Aid
15 Spellweaver Volute
16 Pull from Eternity
17 Mirrormade
18 Dual Nature
19 Bloodbond March
20 Cephalid Shrine
21 Thousand-Year Storm
22 Invulnerability
23 Mana Echoes
25 Soul Separator
26 Nihilistic Glee
27 Golgari Locket
28 Acorn Harvest
29 Drake Familiar
30 Drake Familiar
31 Scarecrow
32 Spellweaver Helix
33 Worldfire
34 Gravitic Punch
35 Gravitic Punch
36 Recoup
37 Molten Slagheap
38 Molderhulk
39 Wormfang Behemoth
40 Distorting Wake
41 Chrome Mox
42 Aegis Automaton
43 Guardian of the Guildpact
44 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
45 Mirror Gallery
47 Show and Tell
48 Omniscience
49 Vault Skirge
50 Vault Skirge
51 Pirate's Prize
52 Widespread Panic
53 Renegade Map
54 Curse of Bounty
55 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
56 World at War
57 Marchesa's Smuggler
58 Doubling Season
59 Reality Spasm
60 Reality Spasm
We need to swap molten slagheap for something that can't make a bunch of red with doubling season (I think mountain is fine?), or just swap doubling season for primal vigor or similar as the bonus to counters is unnecessary.
I think other than that small change we are fine.
The start is super simple with Pirate's prize.
getting big enough numbers for the first computation is easy with drake familiar and Dual nature and mana echoes.
Setup for the first computation only requires the added wrinkle of activating scarecrow.
The life/Retract stage has been examined very closely and is solid.
Similarly, this new worldfire transition is clearly unexploitable.
Blue hasn't changed at all in a while and is the same logic as artifacts/life so no problem there.
White is also solid, Guardian of the Guildpact is still the only white creature.
And the ending is just simple layers.
ending with 2xReality Spasm does seem suboptimal, but I can't find anything better.
Maybe with kaldheim bringing back snow mana we'll have another resource to play with.
Layer 0 - Resolving a Pirate's Prize creates a lot of Treasure tokens
Layer 1 - Shuffling your library triggers a lot of Widespread Panics
Layer 2 - Putting a card onto the battlefield face down triggers a lot of Trial of Mystery
Layer 3 - Resolving a Curse of Bounty untaps a lot of Arbiter of the Ideal
Layer 4 - Attacking triggers a lot of Curse of Bounties
Layer 5 - Each main phase we can create a lot of combat phases
Layer 6 - World at War creates many main phases
But this basically replaces Renegade Map with Trail of Mystery / Arbiter of the Ideal / Opposition, losing two card slots.
Another idea is to use Nyx Diamond / Tolarian Kraken in the beginning, gaining one layer over Pirate's Prize. This isn't compatible with Renegade Map, unfortunately. One possible layer sequence is:
Layer 0 - Nyx Diamond taps for a lot of mana
Layer 1 - Tolarian Kraken can untap Nyx Diamond many times
Layer 2 - Shuffling your library triggers a lot of Widespread Panics
Layer 3 - Putting a card onto the battlefield face down triggers a lot of Trail of Mystery
Layer 4-6 Reality Spasm
This has the potential to beat the other two 6 layer sequences, provided we can put enough Reality Spasms in the deck. Trying to make a deck out of this, the best I could do is:
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Bludgeon Brawl
13 Masterwork of Ingenuity
14 Sigarda's Aid
15 Spellweaver Volute
16 Pull from Eternity
17 Mirrormade
18 Dual Nature
19 Bloodbond March
20 Cephalid Shrine
21 Thousand-Year Storm
22 Invulnerability
23 Mana Echoes
25 Soul Separator
26 Nihilistic Glee
27 Golgari Locket
28 Acorn Harvest
29 Drake Familiar
30 Scarecrow
31 Spellweaver Helix
32 Worldfire
33 Gravitic Punch
34 Gravitic Punch
35 Recoup
36 Molten Slagheap
37 Molderhulk
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Distorting Wake
40 Chrome Mox
41 Aegis Automaton
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Mirror Gallery
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Precursor Golem
49 Vault Skirge
50 Arcanist's Owl
51 Marchesa's Smuggler
52 Nyx Diamond
53 Tolarian Kraken
54 Widespread Panic
55 Trail of Mystery
56 Arbiter of the Ideal
57 Harness the Storm
58 Bolt Bend
59 Reality Spasm
60 Reality Spasm
So two Reality Spasms, which only puts it into a rough tie with the other two at BB_{w^2+w2+6} (BB_{w^2+w2+5} (X))). Looks like the Renegade Map version is still ahead with its two Reality Spasms.
Linking Renegade Map to Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage to Repeal, I get:
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Bludgeon Brawl
13 Masterwork of Ingenuity
14 Sigarda's Aid
15 Spellweaver Volute
16 Pull from Eternity
17 Mirrormade
18 Dual Nature
19 Bloodbond March
20 Cephalid Shrine
21 Thousand-Year Storm
22 Invulnerability
23 Mana Echoes
25 Soul Separator
26 Nihilistic Glee
27 Golgari Locket
28 Acorn Harvest
29 Drake Familiar
30 Scarecrow
31 Spellweaver Helix
32 Worldfire
33 Gravitic Punch
34 Gravitic Punch
35 Recoup
36 Mountain
37 Molderhulk
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Stolen by the Fae
40 Chrome Mox
41 Aegis Automaton
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Mirror Gallery
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Precursor Golem
49 Vault Skirge
50 Arcanist's Owl
51 Break Through the Line
52 Drake Familiar
53 Pirate's Prize
54 Widespread Panic
55 Renegade Map
56 Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage
57 Teferi, Temporal Mage
57 Doubling Season
58 Bolt Bend
59 Repeated Reverberation
60 Repeal
That's 6 layers, but unfortunately just one Repeal is not enough to put it ahead. If we can save at least one card slot, a second Repeal will put this deck ahead. (assuming I haven't missed something, of course)
We could also use Chandra, Flame's Catalyst at the end coupled with Whim of Volrath, to cast an instant like Reality Spasm or Repeal many times. Unfortunately, it doesn't combo with Harness the Storm, but Chandra seems to have an advantage in that we don't have to waste a copy of the instant putting it in the graveyard.
Edit: We can have a more efficient setup using Marchesa's Smuggler and Contraband Kingpin, saving a card. Unfortunately, the last deck actually had 61 cards, so we are still at just one Repeal.
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Bludgeon Brawl
13 Masterwork of Ingenuity
14 Sigarda's Aid
15 Spellweaver Volute
16 Pull from Eternity
17 Mirrormade
18 Dual Nature
19 Bloodbond March
20 Cephalid Shrine
21 Thousand-Year Storm
22 Invulnerability
23 Mana Echoes
25 Soul Separator
26 Nihilistic Glee
27 Golgari Locket
28 Acorn Harvest
29 Drake Familiar
30 Scarecrow
31 Spellweaver Helix
32 Worldfire
33 Gravitic Punch
34 Gravitic Punch
35 Recoup
36 Mountain
37 Molderhulk
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Stolen by the Fae
40 Chrome Mox
41 Aegis Automaton
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Mirror Gallery
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Precursor Golem
49 Precursor Golem
50 Marchesa's Smuggler
51 Contraband Kingpin
52 Pirate's Prize
53 Widespread Panic
54 Renegade Map
55 Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage
56 Teferi, Temporal Mage
57 Doubling Season
58 Bolt Bend
59 Repeated Reverberation
60 Repeal
We can use the above setup with the original World at War deck, allowing us to sneak in Precursor Golem:
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Bludgeon Brawl
13 Masterwork of Ingenuity
14 Sigarda's Aid
15 Spellweaver Volute
16 Pull from Eternity
17 Mirrormade
18 Dual Nature
19 Bloodbond March
20 Cephalid Shrine
21 Thousand-Year Storm
22 Invulnerability
23 Mana Echoes
25 Soul Separator
26 Nihilistic Glee
27 Golgari Locket
28 Acorn Harvest
29 Drake Familiar
30 Scarecrow
31 Spellweaver Helix
32 Worldfire
33 Gravitic Punch
34 Gravitic Punch
35 Recoup
36 Molten Slagheap
37 Molderhulk
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Stolen by the Fae
40 Chrome Mox
41 Aegis Automaton
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Mirror Gallery
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Precursor Golem
49 Precursor Golem
50 Marchesa's Smuggler
51 Contraband Kingpin
52 Pirate's Prize
53 Widespread Panic
54 Renegade Map
55 Curse of Bounty
56 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
57 World at War
58 Doubling Season
59 Bolt Bend
60 Reality Spasm
Perhaps we can get another layer, but replacing Pirate's Prize with Lotus Petal; we can put the Petal into the library with Widespread Panic, then put it into play face down with +1/+1 counters using Fierce Invocation. Then, while the Dual Nature triggers are still on the stack, use Ixidor, Reality Sculptor ]to turn it face up. We can then have two layers, one triggering lots of Dual Natures, one for Doubling Seasons on all the Dual Nature triggers.
It seems like it can work though, if we can only turn our own cards face up. Skirk Alarimist would fit the bill, except it has haste. Is there some way to make it so we can turn our own cards face up, but not those of our opponent?
so I think Skirk alarmist is the only way. But haste is a big problem. I don't see a way around it.
The closest I can hope for is a hypothetical "Commander Falter 2R Target opponent can't block until your next turn. Draw a card." and have that be our only source of card draw so we need to cast it in the setup.
Or symmetrically "bad fog 2w Creatures can't attack this turn. draw a card"
I'm looking again at possible replacements for Acorn Harvest. Lowering the life payment requirement could be nice, and especially getting rid of the requirement for green mana could help the ending layers.
Making use of Nihilistic Glee draw ability could be helpful, but just putting in a sorcery that shuffles itself in (like Beacon of Tomorrows) doesn't seem to quite work, as we need to counter it to use it multiple times in the stage, and countering it will prevent it from shuffling itself back in the library. A spell that always shuffled itself in would be nice, but I didn't see a sorcery like that.
A possible alternative would be using Nihilistic Glee to draw something that enabled the sorcery cast, without being the sorcery itself. So a Jump-Start card, discarding a card that shuffled itself into the library (like maybe Blightsteel Colossus) could work. Unfortunately, all the Jump-Start cards are red or blue, too expensive.
Looking back at FortyTwo's idea of using Spitting Image, we could perhaps discard a land to pay for the cast, use something to put the card in the library, and then use Nihilistic Glee to draw it again. Glowspore Shaman seems to fit the bill. Using Spitting Image to create a copy of Vedalken Orrery would seem to eliminate the need for the Masterwork of Ingenuity combo, allowing us to save 3 cards.
So, it looks like we now have 5 extra card slots, beyond what is needed for the main combo and six additional layers. Unfortuntely, I still don't know what to do with them. Freeing up green mana might help, but we still need green for Spitting Image. I suppose that we could use Pillar of the Paruns to pay for Spitting Image, but we still have Glowspore Shaman providing green mana anyway. I'll keep looking for ways to free up green mana.
So, how about:
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Spellweaver Volute
13 Pull from Eternity
14 Mirrormade
15 Dual Nature
16 Bloodbond March
17 Cephalid Shrine
18 Thousand-Year Storm
19 Invulnerability
20 Mana Echoes
22 Soul Separator
23 Nihilistic Glee
24 Golgari Locket
25 Spitting Image
26 Glowspore Shaman
27 Drake Familiar
28 Scarecrow
29 Spellweaver Helix
30 Worldfire
31 Gravitic Punch
32 Gravitic Punch
33 Recoup
34 Mountain
35 Molderhulk
36 Wormfang Behemoth
37 Stolen by the Fae
38 Chrome Mox
39 Aegis Automaton
40 Guardian of the Guildpact
41 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
42 Mirror Gallery
44 Show and Tell
45 Omniscience
46 Precursor Golem
47 Marchesa's Smuggler
48 Contraband Kingpin
49 Pirate's Prize
50 Widespread Panic
51 Renegade Map
52 Curse of Bounty
53 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
54 World at War
55 Doubling Season
56 Harness the Storm
57 Bolt Bend
58 Reality Spasm
59 Reality Spasm
60 Reality Spasm
Is there some replacement for Curse of Bounty that doesn't require attacking?
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Spellweaver Volute
13 Pull from Eternity
14 Mirrormade
15 Dual Nature
16 Bloodbond March
17 Cephalid Shrine
18 Thousand-Year Storm
19 Invulnerability
20 Mana Echoes
22 Soul Separator
23 Nihilistic Glee
24 Golgari Locket
25 Spitting Image
26 Glowspore Shaman
27 Drake Familiar
28 Runed Halo
29 Spellweaver Helix
30 Worldfire
31 Gravitic Punch
32 Gravitic Punch
33 Recoup
34 Mountain
35 Molderhulk
36 Wormfang Behemoth
37 Stolen by the Fae
38 Chrome Mox
39 Aegis Automaton
40 Guardian of the Guildpact
41 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
42 Mirror Gallery
44 Show and Tell
45 Omniscience
46 Precursor Golem
47 Marchesa's Smuggler
48 your favorite artifact creature
49 your favorite 2 mana blue creature
50 Pirate's Prize
51 Widespread Panic
52 Renegade Map
53 Curse of Bounty
54 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
55 World at War
56 Doubling Season
57 Harness the Storm
58 Bolt Bend
59 Reality Spasm
60 Reality Spasm
Hmm, one way to be able to have Skirk Alarmist, is to only be able to deal damage during a single combat phase. This of course will eliminate World at War, but with an extra layer we can bump Reality Spasm up to layer 6, which would be better if we can cast it for maximum effect more than once.
Unfortunately, we are back to not enough card slots again. The Lotus Petal combo requires two extra cards, and we also have to get rid of Gravitic Punch. Unless we find another way for our triggering sorcery to gain life, that means adding Starlight back in, which in turn means adding Panharmonicon back in. So that's four extra cards we need. Without the need for Marchesa's Smuggler, we can save one card, but we still only have room for two Reality Spasms, one short of being able to improve over the previous deck.
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Spellweaver Volute
13 Pull from Eternity
14 Mirrormade
15 Dual Nature
16 Bloodbond March
17 Cephalid Shrine
18 Thousand-Year Storm
19 Invulnerability
20 Mana Echoes
22 Soul Separator
23 Nihilistic Glee
24 Golgari Locket
25 Spitting Image
26 Glowspore Shaman
27 Drake Familiar
28 Runed Halo
29 Spellweaver Helix
30 Worldfire
31 Starlight
32 Reckless Charge
33 Reckless Charge
34 Panharmonicon
35 Recoup
36 Mountain
37 Molderhulk
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Stolen by the Fae
40 Chrome Mox
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Mirror Gallery
45 Black Lotus
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Precursor Golem
49 Arcanist's Owl
50 Drake Familiar
51 Lotus Petal
52 Widespread Panic
53 Renegade Map
54 Write into Being
55 Skirk Alarmist
56 Doubling Season
57 Harness the Storm
58 Bolt Bend
59 Reality Spasm
60 Reality Spasm
Also, I think we can cut Soul Separator as spitting image can make the copies?
edit: as for mass untaps that don't require combat, im not seeing much. everything seem too cheap.
In terms of alternate endings, I'm trying to think of ways we can use Chandra, Flame's Catalyst. My first thought was to pair it with Kaya the Inexorable, which will give us emblems to cast it during an upkeep. So we could combine that combo with Sphinx of the Second Sun and World at War. Unfortunately, even though we are able to get many upkeeps per main phase, and many emblems to cast Chandra per upkeep, we have to wait until a main phase to use it, so this only gets us six layers I believe, and it requires more cards than our current best deck. If we try to fix this by adding Teferi, Temporal Archmage, that will allow us to use a loyalty ability during a computation, like Kaya's -3.
Another thought was to combine Chandra, Flame's Catalyst with The Chain Veil. We would stop ourselves from continually activating Chandra's +1 ability by limiting the opponent's life. Unfortunately, Worldfire sets the opponent's life total to 1, so we won't be able to use the +1 ability once we resolve a Worldfire, unless we have some limited way to add to the opponent's life. Platinum Emperion will be exiled by Worldfire before it can prevent Worldfire from setting the opponent's life to 1. X instants like Heliod's Intervention won't be limited, since Chandra can cast it.
We can still get to layer 6 just by activating it many times, so multiple Chandras would put us ahead. But, not allowing the opponent to gain life easily means we can't have a lifelinked creature, since that can gain the opponent life during a computation. This means resolving Gravitic Punch won't gain us life, so we will still need Starlight + Panharmonicon. Also, we can't use Runed Halo since the opponent could use it to prevent damage from Chandra, so I went back to Chameleon Blur plus Leyline of Punishment. In the end, I could only fit in one copy of Chandra, not enough to put it ahead:
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Spellweaver Volute
13 Pull from Eternity
14 Mirrormade
15 Dual Nature
16 Bloodbond March
17 Cephalid Shrine
18 Thousand-Year Storm
19 Whim of Volrath
20 Mana Echoes
22 Soul Separator
23 Nihilistic Glee
24 Golgari Locket
25 Spitting Image
26 Glowspore Shaman
27 Drake Familiar
28 Chameleon Blur
29 Spellweaver Helix
30 Worldfire
31 Starlight
32 Gravitic Punch
33 Gravitic Punch
34 Panharmonicon
35 Recoup
36 Blackcleave Cliffs
37 Molderhulk
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Stolen by the Fae
40 Chrome Mox
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Mirror Gallery
45 Black Lotus
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Precursor Golem
49 Drake Familiar
50 your favorite artifact creature
51 Pirate's Prize
52 Widespread Panic
53 Renegade Map
54 Reality Spasm
55 Chandra, Flame's Catalyst
56 Doubling Season
57 Bolt Bend
58 Repeated Reverberation
59 The Chain Veil
60 Leyline of Punishment
Ah; it does work, as we can order the cast triggers to put a TYS[Spitting Image] trigger after each Volute[Retract] trigger (with Volute[PFE] triggers in between as needed too).
hmm it's actually not quite that simple, as any animated enchantments would die and we need march of the machines to die early so that coat of arms does not.
possibly adding phantasmal form to give the few artifacts/enchantments we need to live a creature type could work?
it seems safe for computation as we'd need to cast it in setup, but it'd deck us when we need to cast it after worldfire... Maybe Shade's breath? or standardize? wings of velis vel?
Though, March is a bit awkward to bounce at instant speed since it makes Soul Separator not work.
(edit: or we just directly get triggers for orrery and omni which is probably easier)
But Soul Separator works to trigger it, though it is a bit tricky to manage with march of the machines/no haste, it seems possible.
we just retracted, so we have soul separator in hand, we play march of the machines if it isnt in play, then make a bunch of soul separators.
Then we resolve the next spitting image and use Drake familiar to bounce march of the machines (and any real TYS/DN/etc).
then we recast starfield of nyx, make a blank mirrormade, for DN triggers.
we can then activate soul separators, recast march making a token march, then resolve a soul separator on drake familiar and bounce the real march, and then one on the giant.
and the computation goes.
then we resolve down to the DN triggers for mirrormade and regain flash, and setup for the next iteration.
I think I've found a better ending sequence. But, it doesn't work with cheap card draw, so it's incompatible with the current Spitting Image plan. So, I've gone back to the Master of Ingenuity combo. Fortunately, it still fits.
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Arcbond
4 Artificial Evolution
5 Wrong Turn
6 Dralnu's Crusade
7 Opalescence
8 Desolation Giant
9 Goblin Boom Keg
10 March of the Machines
11 Vedalken Orrery
12 Bludgeon Brawl
13 Masterwork of Ingenuity
14 Sigarda's Aid
15 Spellweaver Volute
16 Pull from Eternity
17 Mirrormade
18 Dual Nature
19 Bloodbond March
20 Cephalid Shrine
21 Thousand-Year Storm
22 Invulnerability
23 Mana Echoes
25 Soul Separator
26 Nihilistic Glee
27 Golgari Locket
28 Acorn Harvest
29 Drake Familiar
30 Scarecrow
31 Spellweaver Helix
32 Worldfire
33 Gravitic Punch
34 Gravitic Punch
35 Recoup
36 Mountain
37 Molderhulk
38 Wormfang Behemoth
39 Stolen by the Fae
40 Chrome Mox
41 Aegis Automaton
42 Guardian of the Guildpact
43 Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
44 Mirror Gallery
46 Show and Tell
47 Omniscience
48 Vault Skirge
49 Vault Skirge
50 Marchesa's Smuggler
51 your favorite blue creature
52 The First Iroan Games
53 Contentious Plan
54 Widespread Panic
55 Renegade Map
56 Curse of Bounty
57 Moraug, Fury of Akoum
58 World at War
59 Primal Vigor
60 Reality Spasm
That should be seven layers at the end if I'm not mistaken.
I'd still like to see an improvement over the Masterwork of Ingenuity combo. Maybe using Spitting Image could be made to work, without enabling us to draw.