Well, thanks for your explanations, there are a lot of complicated interactions in these decks and you have been instrumental in furthering my understanding.
So a few subtleties that make this combo work: once again we need to be making an extra Vedalken Orrery so that we have flash after a rebuild. This can be done with mirrorworks easily enough. Goblin Dark-Dwellers targets so even with mirror of fate shenanigans we can't get more than one casting of rebuild. (we'd like to be able to cast battle cry more but TYS still gives us enough copies)
I'm not super good with all of the various interactions with Champion, but going through them seems like a good idea:
lets say that we cast+counter Boggart Mob, we get some BBM triggers, (BloodBond March + Boggart Mob are both BMs)
We use on to bring the Mob back and get Champion triggers.
We can champion goblin dark dwellers and then sacrifice the mob to the second champion trigger.
This puts the Mob in the yard for the next BBM trigger. This is sufficient for the combo.
But this also means that we have a lot of champion triggers we don't use, and we can put the Mob on Mimic Vat to maybe get even more useful triggers, and possibly go infinite.
Lets say we have a vat token about to enter play and the real mob in play, can we do anything super sneaky and go infinite? It looks like no, while we can champion both goblins, we can't really do more (we get two sets of goblin dark dweller ETBs instead of one, but still clearly finite).
I dont think I'm missing anything else we can do with the champion triggers that seems particularly profitable?
Once we run out of BBM triggers, we use a PB to bounce it and we get PBs via Razorfin Abolisher.
So we need to keep tapping Razorfin Abolishers.
We make more of them with Jade bearer, which can also target other copies of itself on ETB. (Dual Nature would go infinite)
I think the fact that the counters makes them targetable by the Abolisher makes this tricky?
But in order to get a counter we'd need to spend a Jade trigger, which could've bounced/killed the fish already.
How are we getting the Explosives back to hand? Salvaging Station puts them into play with no counters, and they need to be a creature to be bounced but would be a 0/0 and die before that. (Oh, thats what Into thin Air is for?)
Yeah, both Boggart Mob possibly Championing itself and Jade Bearer targeting itself are things we need to be careful about, but I don't see an infinite offhand.
the Explosives get bounced by Rebuild for the hyperstage, and Into Thin Air is how we get many bounces of Explosives in the megastage transition, so that we can charge up a large hyperstage.
Yeah I was looking down the deck and then back to the start so I missed Rebuild, which you even mentioned in the earlier explanation.
I'm pretty sure that boggart mob cant do anything more powerful than what I outlined, champion uses the old two triggers template like Oblivion Ring so all the panharmonicon triggers are pretty impotent.
Jade bearer is a bit more tricky. The only clear possibility to an infinite I see is by using a mimic vat token targeting the original to somehow both make a new vat token and put the original back in play to be targeted again.
Such a line would involve the following steps:
Target the original, put it on vat, activate vat, in response kill the vat, mirror the original back from exile.
But we can't get the original back to hand/play without a BM trigger (or Verdant Succession) but those triggers would be too low on the stack to be useable.
Hmm, another thing I noticed: does Psychic Battle allows Goblin Dark Dwellers to potentially cast the same spell multiple times? No, all of the panharmonicon copies are targetted at the same time, so their PB triggers all go on top of all of the GDD triggers, so by the time we actually cast one from GDD there are no more PB triggers to play with. (and I dont think it even matters if we could)
In terms of the # operations we have: (changed from I=input to M=Metallurgion to align with the other abbreviations, and using "Resolve a Z to..." instead of "Use one Z from the top of the stack to...")
1. Spend one M to put x PB on the stack.
2*. Resolve a PB to put x BM on the stack.
3. Resolve a PB to increase x (and unlock flash).
4. Resolve a PB then a BM immediately to generate one M.
5. Use one BC from the top of the stack to gain x M.
6a. Resolve a GDD-BC to put x BC on the stack
6b. Resolve a GDD-R to put x R on the stack (one is sufficient the other x-1 do nothing)
6c. Resolve R to unlock EE and destroy all M and lock flash
6d. Resolve a Mob to put GDD-R, then GDD-BC on the stack. (we could do it in the other order but never do)
6e*. Spend a RFA to put x Mob on the stack
6f. resolve a JB to gain one RFA
6g*. lock EE to put x JB on the stack
* requires flash unlocked
Which is a really convoluted way of implementing 6. (and 6f and 6g are oversimplified) but I think we get it done and have f_w^2
Then the next section of the deck involves
... Resolve a ITA to unlock EE
... put x ITA on the stack
Hmm, it seems like those procedures aren't quite right? (as written they go infinite)
The actual line is more like:
we put a mirrorworks trigger for Vedalken Orrery on the stack. (rule 3) {we have the original and a mirrorworks token in play, use a metallurgion to bounce the original then replay it and get a mirrorworks trigger}
we tap mimic vat and put a RFA in play (6f), we tap it to bounce Boggart mob via cowardice and get a bunch of psychic battle triggers. (6e)
that gives us the goblin dark dwellers and we can recast battlecry and rebuild (6d). Battlecry refuels the Metallurgion stage above. (6a)
Rebuild returns the EE but we can't get flash back until we resolve down to the Mirrorworks trigger (6b+c), so all of the extra possible triggers are useless. (we don't even have any mimic vats in play to get an instant speed creature)
So we have to resolve down to the mirrorworks to be able to cast EE.
Actually more optimal than my procedure is that we don't need to cast Rebuild with every goblin dark dwellers, just the last one, all the others can just cast Battle Cry. to get more metallurgion refills before we need EE again and lock flash?
All that looks good so far
but
I think my oversimplification of 6f and 6g was too much?
EE for 1 gives us a bunch of JB triggers from panharmonicon and Psychic battle.
But I dont think we get the efficiency of the Metallurgions.
If we use a trigger to bounce RFA, we can recast it and get BBM triggers, but we cant target the RFA again yet, all the triggers are below it on the stack.
If we use a trigger to put it on the vat, we can make a copy, but now we need a BBM trigger to save the original from exile/grave/library.
So we need to cast RFA, then pop EE=1 then we can use JB to imprint and make a copy of RFA, and then need to resolve down to the BBM triggers to get it back to play.
Which sounds all ok for preventing us from going infinite, but we need the RFA to start in hand for this, and it is ending in play, with no way of targeting it (all of the JB triggers have to resolve first). I think I am missing a some line around here?
In summary: a small optimization
6a. ---
6b. --- (both rolled into 6d to eliminate redundancies, the excess Rs were useless)
6d. Resolve a Mob to put R, AND/OR x BC on the stack.
and idealized:
6f*. lock EE to put gain one RFA
6g. ---
Of course this makes 6f even more oversimplified, but I think it is the step we want to implement. I'm just not sure if we have?
(Oh, and Sunburst is weird: March of the machines would allow Engineered explosives to enter with +1/+1 counters and live, which seems dangerous. But the +1/+1 counters are instead of charge counters, so it can't boom for anything other than 0)
Edit: oh and I forgot to add copy enchantment to the decklist, what do we cut for it?
Yes, we should definitely have all but the last replays of Goblin Dark-Dwellers just cast Battle Cry, and then the last can cast both instants.
EE for 1 gives us a bunch of JB triggers from panharmonicon and Psychic battle.
But I dont think we get the efficiency of the Metallurgions.
If we use a trigger to bounce RFA, we can recast it and get BBM triggers, but we cant target the RFA again yet, all the triggers are below it on the stack.
If we use a trigger to put it on the vat, we can make a copy, but now we need a BBM trigger to save the original from exile/grave/library.
So we need to cast RFA, then pop EE=1 then we can use JB to imprint and make a copy of RFA, and then need to resolve down to the BBM triggers to get it back to play.
Which sounds all ok for preventing us from going infinite, but we need the RFA to start in hand for this, and it is ending in play, with no way of targeting it (all of the JB triggers have to resolve first). I think I am missing a some line around here?
Ah, that is a good observation. That does seem to be a troubling problem; we can't afford to need Bloodbond March triggers for Razorfin Abolisher, unless we have some way to produce them at will. First thought: destroying a Jade Bearer can get us potentially two Jade Bearers back; one from fetching the card using Verdant Succession, and another from imprinting the card onto Mimic Vat. But, if we want both, we need to imprint it and make the token, and then put the card in the library and fetch it. And the second one comes off a trigger, so we can't respond to the first with the second. Hmm, maybe we can make it work though. We start with Razorfin Abolisher in our hand. We sacrifice the Exposives to destroy the Jade Bearer. We get triggers from Mimic Vat and Verdant Succession. Resolve the Mimic Vat first, and imprint the Jade Bearer. Next, play Razorfin Abolisher and counter it, getting BM triggers, and returning it to the battlefield. We now tap the Mimic Vat, getting a Jade Bearer token. We target the Razorfin Abolisher and destroy it, imprinting it on a Mimic Vat. We create a token copy, then return it to the graveyard, returning Jade Bearer to the library at the same time. We use a Bloodbond March trigger to return the Abolisher to the battlefield. Then, we resolve the Verdant Succession trigger for Jade Bearer to return it to the battlefield. The Jade Bearer triggers, and we return the Abolisher to our hand.
Do you see anything wrong with this sequence?
Hmm, does Sunburst allow Engineered Explosives to enter with +1/+1 counters instead of charge counters, even if that's not what it says on either the card or Oracle text? That would be pretty weird. But as you say, if we can't get charge counters it doesn't do much of anything, and even if you could get both, I don't see the problem with Engineered Explosives surviving March of the Machines.
We start with Razorfin Abolisher in our hand. We sacrifice the Exposives to destroy the Jade Bearer. We get triggers from Mimic Vat and Verdant Succession. Resolve the Mimic Vat first, and imprint the Jade Bearer. Next, play Razorfin Abolisher and counter it, getting BM triggers, and returning it to the battlefield. We now tap the Mimic Vat, getting a Jade Bearer token. We target the Razorfin Abolisher and destroy it, imprinting it on a Mimic Vat. We create a token copy, then return it to the graveyard, returning Jade Bearer to the library at the same time. We use a Bloodbond March trigger to return the Abolisher to the battlefield. Then, we resolve the Verdant Succession trigger for Jade Bearer to return it to the battlefield. The Jade Bearer triggers, and we return the Abolisher to our hand.
Yeah that seems to work, so many mimic vat tricks.
As for sunburst, the comp rules have:
702.43a Sunburst is a static ability that functions as an object is entering the battlefield from the
stack. “Sunburst” means “If this object is entering the battlefield from the stack as a creature, it
enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it. If this
object is entering the battlefield from the stack and isn’t entering the battlefield as a creature, it
enters the battlefield with a charge counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it.”
So march of the machines lets us cast and bounce the EE as a creature, if it is in hand, but once it is in the yard or exile, we can only get it with no counters until we bounce it with rebuild or Into Thin Air.
Without infinite mana from Karn, I dont think we have enough mana. (especially from the start).
In the very top of the stack, we are making a ton of mimic vat tokens of our enchantments. and each mimic vat activation costs 3, and skull costs 5 so we definitely need a good source of mana, we can make a bunch of Mana Crypts, but Mirrorworks costs 2, so making copies is not profitable, (Mana Vault might be enough though?)
Hmm, I had been thinking we would want to get Mirrorworks onto the vat to be able to make an increasing number of mirrorworks (by recasting the original with a token in play), but that might not be needed with infinite mana, but perhaps would be needed as a way to make enough mana? (with march of the machines)
Yeah Mana Crypt + March of the Machines doesn't seem like it would work. So if we don't go Mana Crypt + Karn, Silver Golem, we should probably go with Mana Vault + either March of the Machines or Karn. Mana Vault + Karn seems like it might be better, although it will ask more of the start than Mana Crypt + Karn.
well, once we run through the rest of the deck we can verify the start and see if March+Vault is worth the trouble.
Speaking of the rest of the deck, next we e are doing a Spellweaver Vollute stack again,
And the operations we currently have are:
1. Spend one M to put x PB on the stack.
2*. Resolve a PB to put x BM on the stack.
3. Resolve a PB to increase x (and unlock flash).
4. Resolve a PB then a BM immediately to generate one M.
5. Use one BC from the top of the stack to gain x M.
6a. Resolve R to unlock EE and destroy all M and lock flash
6b. Resolve a Mob to put R, and/or x BC on the stack.
6c*. Spend a RFA to put x Mob on the stack
6d*. lock EE to put gain one RFA
* requires flash
We have x Spellweaver Volutes on each of the instants, but most importantly on Into Thin Air.
The only sorceries in the deck to trigger the aura are Worldfire, Divine Congregation (neither of which we can recur) Spider spwaning (we don't have black yet) and Acorn Harvest, which we can recast for 3 life.
so we have
7a. Spend 3 life to put x copies of any instants on the stack in any order. (mostly ITA, then one BFI and one Goryo's vengance)
7b. Resolve an ITA to unlock EE
This seems like a dangerous amount of freedom, but none of our instants can unlock flash, and the only way to gain 3 life locks flash.
In particular, apothecary geist gains us 3 life on ETB, but we can't target him with anything yet, and we only have access to the 3 bant colors so we can't even use EE =4 to kill it.
8a. resolve a BFI and lock CoA and flash and destroy everything (all Ms and RFAs) to gain 3 life.
8b. resolve a GV to unlock CoA
There are a few potential issues:
Can we even rebuild after the Child goes boom boom? Yes, but we need to prep with Mirrorworks triggers before even casting Acorn Harvest. We also need to be able to save our atog and Horobi, but fortunately those two creatures can be saved by the spells we just introduced. That's some clever deckbuilding! (and also why we aren't using Auratog)
Can Panharmonicons massively increase the amount of life gained, and break the cycle? No because all of the artifacts and enchantments in play are destroyed by the Child's tantrum, which immediately puts Iname's death trigger on the stack. Without flash or anything in play, we need to just let that resolve and give us just 3 life.
Can we make Mimic Vat copies of the legends to kill them via legend rule? Yes but not profitably.
If we kill the Child, we can put it on the vat, make a copy, then reanimate it with Goryo's vengance, and sacrifice the original to the legend rule, but then we either get the death trigger, which we could've gotten from a copy of Brace For Impact just as easily, and then make another vat copy, and get an additional death trigger, but not in a useful location on the stack.
Iname is even worse as it has to exile itself to the trigger to reanimate something, so we can't get both that and a mimic vat copy.
Is there anything I'm missing here?
I think we are at like f_w^3 (life total/3) now?
Indeed, making sure that we can return all our permanents after the mass destruction from Child of Alara and Worldfire is one of the challanges of the deck.
That seems to leave Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Boggart Mob, Jade Bearer, and Bramblewood Paragon as the creatures we still need to bring back. Jade Bearer can be brought back by Verdant Succession triggers that are placed on the stack in the lower hyperstage prior to the megastage transition being executed. Same with Bramblewood Paragon. Boggart Mob can be brought back by Bloodbond March triggers that are placed on the stack in the lower hyperstage. For the green creatures, we need to destroy them in preparation for the megastage transition. (and presumably bring each of them back using one of the Verdant Succesion triggers) Boggart Mob just has to be bounced and replayed, which we normally do anyway. For Goblin Dark-Dwellers, the only way I see how to save it is to Champion it with Boggart Mob; then when Child of Alara destroys everything, the Dark-Dwellers come back onto the battlefield.
Now, what I believe is the trickiest part of making this combo work, is to make sure that after each n-stage transition (in this case, the megastage transition) we go back to the lower hyperstage with and have fewer resources than the last time we were there, but not so much fewer that we don't get the full power of the combo. In particular, we don't want to either have a net gain or net loss of a Razorfin Abolisher token after a megastage transition.
One thing we have to worry about is that we can return to the lower hyperstage with an Engineered Explosives in our hand. So, if we can start the megastage transtion with Explosives on the battlefield (after being used), we could theoretically then go to the higher hyperstage, leave the higher hyperstage with the Explosives in our hand, then return to the lower hyperstage, allowing us to play the Explosives and sacrifice it to get another Razorfin Abolisher token.
What we're hoping for is that the setup required prevents that from happening. In particular, the need to put triggers on the stack for Boggart Mob, Bramblewood Paragon, and Jade Bearer is supposed to keep us from gaining an additional Razorfin Abolisher token. Of course, we also need to make sure that we don't wind up with a net loss of a Razorfin Abolisher token either, as that is too much of a resource loss.
When I last analyzed this, I believe I came to the conclusion that we wound up even on the Abolisher tokens. But, the megastage transition was complicated enough that I wasn't quite sure. Now is as good a time as any to make sure about this.
I think that because we lose flash, we can't do anything tricky until we resolve to the lower mirrorworks trigger.
so the outline of the stack for the combo so far is:
x PB triggers
x BM triggers
x PB triggers
x BM triggers.
...
x batches of PB/BM triggers make a stage with the resource being Metallurgions
Stage
x Battle Cry
Rebuild
PB trigger from lower stage
Stage
Stage
x Battle Cry
Rebuild
PB trigger from lower stage
x of those makes the hyperstage with the resource being RFAs
hyperstage
x Into Thin Air
Child of Alara
PB trigger from lower stage
hyperstage
x Into Thin Air
Child of Alara
PB trigger from lower stage
x of those make the megastage with the resource being life.
So what we need to verify is that the resources can't be smuggled beyond the triggers that separate the stages. (resolving down through the stack, we can go the other way no problem, its just very inefficient)
Metallurgions can't be smuggled past rebuild or past Child, and RFAs can't be smuggled past Child. (and not even life can be brought past Worldfire, but we haven't gotten there yet.)
But things are a bit more subtle and complex than that skeleton and we need to be careful that we aren't costing too much from the neighboring stages. In particular, we want to take only from the very top of the next stage down, and not any more.
One thing we have to worry about is that we can return to the lower hyperstage with an Engineered Explosives in our hand. So, if we can start the megastage transtion with Explosives on the battlefield (after being used), we could theoretically then go to the higher hyperstage, leave the higher hyperstage with the Explosives in our hand, then return to the lower hyperstage, allowing us to play the Explosives and sacrifice it to get another Razorfin Abolisher token.
And I think EE is one of those annoying subtleties, because we can leave it in hand, I think there might be an issue, I'm gonna investigate, and probably post later today or tomorrow with either an infinite line or any of my close calls.
The triggers you mention do seem to make things a little complicated.
Edit:
Ok, I think it is fine. The key thing is that any of the Bloodbond March / Verdant Succession triggers for Boggart Mob, Bramblewood Paragon, and Jade Bearer are necessarily under the Rebuild that the darkdwellers cast as we ran out of RFAs. If we carry EE in hand down here, we can get an activation, sure, but not on a Jade Bearer, until after the Rebuild that would give us the EE anyway.
There are a few other subtle issues, but we can take care of them easily,
Iname exiles itself and we dont have any mirrors/timepieces in play for the Vengance to target it, but we just cast a GV earlier from Spellweaver Volute.
Rebuilding is less efficient without any enchantments carried over, but once we get to a casting of battle cry we get the TYS copies and are back up to speed.
On to the Worldfire/Black mana stage?
A few initial questions:
what all are we putting on the spellweaver helix? Spider Spawning, Worldfire, and divine congregation? Anything else?
How are we recycling Wormfang?
Why divine congregation over ... Oh I see, the options are kinda awful.
It would be nice to find a replacement that didn't require an extra card. Something that would allow us to bring back our artifacts in particular. I think in earlier decks we had Goblin Welder, but I'm not sure how to get hasted copies of Goblin Welder after a Worldfire. We could maybe make a token copy of Boggart Mob to exile the Goblin Welder, so that it comes back after Worldfire. But we would need to destroy it as well... and we don't have Engineered Explosives yet to destroy it. So it doesn't look like Goblin Welder quite works. Any other ideas?
Ooh,
Depending on how the rules work Portcullis might be the card?
I think that lets us get going immediately after worldfire, but might be problematic with other parts of the combo? hmm yeah rebuild doesn't lock flash anymore, I think theres a similar problem with Lumbering Battlement too.
Hmm, I think Saprazzan Bailiff might actually work. It only exiles artifacts and enchantments, so no worries about bringing back a dangerous native creature. Bringing back Engineered Explosives is not a problem, it won't get any counters.
And Sprazzan Bailiff is a Merfolk, which allows it to be targeted by Jade Bearer, so we don't need an extra card to recycle it like Wormfang Behemoth does.
One wrinkle is that Worldfire exiles everything, including our hand. So our plan to rescue some of our creatures by bouncing them to our hand works for Child of Alara, but no longer for Worldfire. However, anything that we can bounce to our hand can also be replayed and countered for Bloodbond March triggers, so we can put BM triggers for all of those creatures on the stack, and get them back eventually. I think that should work.
Edit: No wait, the Bailiff brings our artifacts and enchantments back to our hand. So Engineered Explosives goes back to our hand. Is that infinite? I think so... we can use EE to destroy the Jade Bearer, the JB can target Saprazzan Bailiff and Razorfin Abolisher, we can get an Abolisher token and bounce the Bailiff. We can then use the Bailiff to exile EE, then another JB target will bounce the Bailiff and bring EE to our hand, and we can repeat, getting more Abolisher tokens. So this looks infinite.
there are a few guys that draw cards when they leave the battlefield, but those probably go infinite, Slithermuse, and Thought gorger. Edit oops Slithermuse won't draw after a worldfire.
What about Spell Queller? we can hit it with brace for impact, and it can hold almost all of our key combo cards. Unfortunately it can't get Mirror of Fate to get the other exiled cards back. Is there another option for Mirror of fate? Riftsweeper is probably not enough.
Edit: Oh right we can have mirrorworks triggers for the artifacts. I think Spell Queller might actually work?
Interestingly, Spell Queller used to be how we cast instants/sorceries for the hyperstage, rather than Goblin Dark-Dwellers! (Stakfish came up with the idea of using both of them.) The reason that Goblin Dark-Dwellers seems to be better is that Spell Queller can flicker CMC 4 spells, including sorceries like Acorn Harvest and Eureka, which are pretty useful and important. Both of those can trigger Spellweaver Volute, so that's a problem.
A possible solution is to have Spellweaver Volute for the hyperstage, and have Goblin Dark-Dwellers or Spell Queller cast cheap sorceries in the megastage. We haven't really explored this possibility, since having the cheap instants for the hyperstage seemed most natural.
As far as using Spell Queller just to exile cards, that does seem problematic: Start with Spell Queller exiling Acorn Harvest from the stack. Cast Brace for Impact, and counter it, getting copies. Put a Spellweaver Volute on Brace for Impact in the graveyard. Resolve a Brace for Impact, and target Spell Queller, bouncing it. We can now cast Acorn Harvest, and that triggers Spellweaver Volute. Replay Spell Queller, exiling Acorn Harvest again. Resolve the Spellweaver Volute trigger, and we can cast Brace for Impact again. This can bounce Spell Queller again, allowing us to cast Acorn Havest, and it looks like we can do this forever. Since Acorn Harvest can also trigger Battle Cry, we can build up our resources arbitrarily high, I think.
Edit: One possible solution for all this is to replace Brace for Impact and Into Thin Air with Smite the Monstrous, which can also destroy Child of Alara. In addition, we can use earlier copies of Smite the Monstrous to bounce Goblin Dark-Dwellers a bunch of times, so it can replace Into Thin Air as well. Smite the Monstrous can hit all our Legendary creatures, as well as Wormfang Behemoth, so that eliminates the need for Krosan Groundshaker and Goryo's Vengeance. Furthermore, since we now only need to put Spellweaver Volute on one instant, we can get rid of Copy Enchantment as well. So that can potentially save us four (!) cards.
The downside is that Smite the Monstrous can bounce Goblin Dark-Dwellers and Boggart Mob and go back to the lower hyperstage with them in our hand. It doesn't look like bouncing Boggart Mob back to our hand will result in an extra Razorfin Abolisher token, but bouncing Goblin Dark-Dwellers back to our hand might. But again, we need to carefully go over the megastage transition to see how it all pans out.
Yeah spell queller getting to cast the exiled card does seem problematic, even cutting copy enchantment, and only having one spellweaver volute we can increase the TYS count forever with that loop.
Hmm, Smite the Monstrous does seem interesting, Getting extra dark dweller bounces allows for more Rebuilds to bounce EE and get a razorfin abolisher token, so it looks like it works over Into thin air there. it targets all of our legends (and the atog), though the actual implementation might be a little tricky there?
And as it would be the only instant to put the Volute on and we get enough copies with TYS. So cutting copy enchantment looks possible.
If smite the monstrous is the card to use, wouldn’t the new giant killerbe even better? We get the restricted use of the smite clause and we also get a creature that can tap and self target, which if I remember correctly ended but being one of the needed requirements to build a stage around with battle/march. Maybe the resolving into exile clause of the adventure cards makes it problematic but maybe it can help too. Figured I’d mention it.
We can't put Spellweaver Volute on it, and since it targets any creature, it would need to be the last creature (i guess there could be a pro-white extension?)
Unfortunately, white creatures are generally out as stage creatures due to Battle Cry untapping them. (We could have a white creature that sacrifices when we activate it though.)
7a*. Spend 3 life to put x copies of StM on the stack. (TYS Copies and Psychic Battle Triggers)
7b*. resolve a StM to get x GDD
8a. resolve a StM to kill Iname and lock AG and gain 3 life.
8b. resolve a StM to kill CoA and destroy everything to lock flash and unlock AG.
We do need to be careful about keeping track of our legends and ensuring we can be set up for the next time through. These rules don't really capture that.
Without Goryo's Vengance we want to either keep the real cards in hand or have a BBM trigger waiting. Which seems a little tricky to manage? Worst case we might need Mirror gallery but still save on cards with StM.
Working around the Wormfang doesn't seem difficult as we should be able to make a token to hide the original under without too much effort once we are that far down the stack.
Bouncing our Legends seems to be okay... except for Child of Alara. Which, I don't see immediately how to get back. We can't set up BM triggers for Child of Alara unless we go to the next megastage transtion further down, which is going too far. So maybe we still need Goryo's Vengeance?
Goryo's Vengance would require Copy enchantment to come back in. I think Mirror Gallery lets us bounce the child while a token is still in play, without spending another card.
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death’s Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 Karn, Silver Golem
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Phantatog
14 Skull of Orm
15 Mirrorworks
16 Mana Crypt
17 Obelisk of Bant
18 Metallurgeon
19 Battle Cry
20 Rebuild
21 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
22 Boggart Mob
23 Razorfin Abolisher
24 Bramblewood Paragon
25 Jade Bearer
26 Verdant Succession
27 Engineered Explosives
28 Salvaging Station
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Into Thin Air
32 Brace for Impact
33 Child of Alara
34 Apothecary Geist
35 Iname, Life Aspect
36 Goryo's Vengeance
37 Spellweaver Helix
38 Worldfire
39 Spider Spawning
40 Spider Spawning
41 Panharmonicon
42 Molderhulk
43 Divine Congregation
44 Wormfang Behemoth
45 Bayou
46 Eureka
47 Mox Emerald
48 Polluted Dead
49 Frightshroud Courier
51 Ghosthelm Courier
52 Devout Chaplain
53 Royal Assassin
54 Simian Spirit Guide
55 Goblin Kites
56 Old Man of the Sea
57 Xathrid Gorgon
58 Reality Spasm
59 Thousand-Year Storm
60 Words of Wisdom
Well, thanks for your explanations, there are a lot of complicated interactions in these decks and you have been instrumental in furthering my understanding.
So a few subtleties that make this combo work: once again we need to be making an extra Vedalken Orrery so that we have flash after a rebuild. This can be done with mirrorworks easily enough.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers targets so even with mirror of fate shenanigans we can't get more than one casting of rebuild. (we'd like to be able to cast battle cry more but TYS still gives us enough copies)
I'm not super good with all of the various interactions with Champion, but going through them seems like a good idea:
lets say that we cast+counter Boggart Mob, we get some BBM triggers, (BloodBond March + Boggart Mob are both BMs)
We use on to bring the Mob back and get Champion triggers.
We can champion goblin dark dwellers and then sacrifice the mob to the second champion trigger.
This puts the Mob in the yard for the next BBM trigger. This is sufficient for the combo.
But this also means that we have a lot of champion triggers we don't use, and we can put the Mob on Mimic Vat to maybe get even more useful triggers, and possibly go infinite.
Lets say we have a vat token about to enter play and the real mob in play, can we do anything super sneaky and go infinite? It looks like no, while we can champion both goblins, we can't really do more (we get two sets of goblin dark dweller ETBs instead of one, but still clearly finite).
I dont think I'm missing anything else we can do with the champion triggers that seems particularly profitable?
Once we run out of BBM triggers, we use a PB to bounce it and we get PBs via Razorfin Abolisher.
So we need to keep tapping Razorfin Abolishers.
We make more of them with Jade bearer, which can also target other copies of itself on ETB. (Dual Nature would go infinite)
I think the fact that the counters makes them targetable by the Abolisher makes this tricky?
But in order to get a counter we'd need to spend a Jade trigger, which could've bounced/killed the fish already.
How are we getting the Explosives back to hand? Salvaging Station puts them into play with no counters, and they need to be a creature to be bounced but would be a 0/0 and die before that. (Oh, thats what Into thin Air is for?)
Edit: Rebuild also bounces it >.<
the Explosives get bounced by Rebuild for the hyperstage, and Into Thin Air is how we get many bounces of Explosives in the megastage transition, so that we can charge up a large hyperstage.
I'm pretty sure that boggart mob cant do anything more powerful than what I outlined, champion uses the old two triggers template like Oblivion Ring so all the panharmonicon triggers are pretty impotent.
Jade bearer is a bit more tricky. The only clear possibility to an infinite I see is by using a mimic vat token targeting the original to somehow both make a new vat token and put the original back in play to be targeted again.
Such a line would involve the following steps:
Target the original, put it on vat, activate vat, in response kill the vat, mirror the original back from exile.
But we can't get the original back to hand/play without a BM trigger (or Verdant Succession) but those triggers would be too low on the stack to be useable.
Hmm, another thing I noticed: does Psychic Battle allows Goblin Dark Dwellers to potentially cast the same spell multiple times? No, all of the panharmonicon copies are targetted at the same time, so their PB triggers all go on top of all of the GDD triggers, so by the time we actually cast one from GDD there are no more PB triggers to play with. (and I dont think it even matters if we could)
In terms of the # operations we have: (changed from I=input to M=Metallurgion to align with the other abbreviations, and using "Resolve a Z to..." instead of "Use one Z from the top of the stack to...")
1. Spend one M to put x PB on the stack.
2*. Resolve a PB to put x BM on the stack.
3. Resolve a PB to increase x (and unlock flash).
4. Resolve a PB then a BM immediately to generate one M.
5. Use one BC from the top of the stack to gain x M.
6a. Resolve a GDD-BC to put x BC on the stack
6b. Resolve a GDD-R to put x R on the stack (one is sufficient the other x-1 do nothing)
6c. Resolve R to unlock EE and destroy all M and lock flash
6d. Resolve a Mob to put GDD-R, then GDD-BC on the stack. (we could do it in the other order but never do)
6e*. Spend a RFA to put x Mob on the stack
6f. resolve a JB to gain one RFA
6g*. lock EE to put x JB on the stack
* requires flash unlocked
Which is a really convoluted way of implementing 6. (and 6f and 6g are oversimplified) but I think we get it done and have f_w^2
Then the next section of the deck involves
... Resolve a ITA to unlock EE
... put x ITA on the stack
The actual line is more like:
we put a mirrorworks trigger for Vedalken Orrery on the stack. (rule 3) {we have the original and a mirrorworks token in play, use a metallurgion to bounce the original then replay it and get a mirrorworks trigger}
we tap mimic vat and put a RFA in play (6f), we tap it to bounce Boggart mob via cowardice and get a bunch of psychic battle triggers. (6e)
that gives us the goblin dark dwellers and we can recast battlecry and rebuild (6d). Battlecry refuels the Metallurgion stage above. (6a)
Rebuild returns the EE but we can't get flash back until we resolve down to the Mirrorworks trigger (6b+c), so all of the extra possible triggers are useless. (we don't even have any mimic vats in play to get an instant speed creature)
So we have to resolve down to the mirrorworks to be able to cast EE.
Actually more optimal than my procedure is that we don't need to cast Rebuild with every goblin dark dwellers, just the last one, all the others can just cast Battle Cry. to get more metallurgion refills before we need EE again and lock flash?
All that looks good so far
but
I think my oversimplification of 6f and 6g was too much?
EE for 1 gives us a bunch of JB triggers from panharmonicon and Psychic battle.
But I dont think we get the efficiency of the Metallurgions.
If we use a trigger to bounce RFA, we can recast it and get BBM triggers, but we cant target the RFA again yet, all the triggers are below it on the stack.
If we use a trigger to put it on the vat, we can make a copy, but now we need a BBM trigger to save the original from exile/grave/library.
So we need to cast RFA, then pop EE=1 then we can use JB to imprint and make a copy of RFA, and then need to resolve down to the BBM triggers to get it back to play.
Which sounds all ok for preventing us from going infinite, but we need the RFA to start in hand for this, and it is ending in play, with no way of targeting it (all of the JB triggers have to resolve first). I think I am missing a some line around here?
In summary: a small optimization
6a. ---
6b. --- (both rolled into 6d to eliminate redundancies, the excess Rs were useless)
6d. Resolve a Mob to put R, AND/OR x BC on the stack.
and idealized:
6f*. lock EE to put gain one RFA
6g. ---
Of course this makes 6f even more oversimplified, but I think it is the step we want to implement. I'm just not sure if we have?
(Oh, and Sunburst is weird: March of the machines would allow Engineered explosives to enter with +1/+1 counters and live, which seems dangerous. But the +1/+1 counters are instead of charge counters, so it can't boom for anything other than 0)
Edit: oh and I forgot to add copy enchantment to the decklist, what do we cut for it?
Ah, that is a good observation. That does seem to be a troubling problem; we can't afford to need Bloodbond March triggers for Razorfin Abolisher, unless we have some way to produce them at will. First thought: destroying a Jade Bearer can get us potentially two Jade Bearers back; one from fetching the card using Verdant Succession, and another from imprinting the card onto Mimic Vat. But, if we want both, we need to imprint it and make the token, and then put the card in the library and fetch it. And the second one comes off a trigger, so we can't respond to the first with the second. Hmm, maybe we can make it work though. We start with Razorfin Abolisher in our hand. We sacrifice the Exposives to destroy the Jade Bearer. We get triggers from Mimic Vat and Verdant Succession. Resolve the Mimic Vat first, and imprint the Jade Bearer. Next, play Razorfin Abolisher and counter it, getting BM triggers, and returning it to the battlefield. We now tap the Mimic Vat, getting a Jade Bearer token. We target the Razorfin Abolisher and destroy it, imprinting it on a Mimic Vat. We create a token copy, then return it to the graveyard, returning Jade Bearer to the library at the same time. We use a Bloodbond March trigger to return the Abolisher to the battlefield. Then, we resolve the Verdant Succession trigger for Jade Bearer to return it to the battlefield. The Jade Bearer triggers, and we return the Abolisher to our hand.
Do you see anything wrong with this sequence?
Hmm, does Sunburst allow Engineered Explosives to enter with +1/+1 counters instead of charge counters, even if that's not what it says on either the card or Oracle text? That would be pretty weird. But as you say, if we can't get charge counters it doesn't do much of anything, and even if you could get both, I don't see the problem with Engineered Explosives surviving March of the Machines.
Edit: For Copy Enchantment, I don't see anything other than to cut a stage. Randomly choosing the Devout Chaplain / Royal Assassin stage, we wind up with:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death’s Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 Karn, Silver Golem
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Phantatog
14 Skull of Orm
15 Mirrorworks
16 Mana Crypt
17 Obelisk of Bant
18 Metallurgeon
19 Battle Cry
20 Rebuild
21 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
22 Boggart Mob
23 Razorfin Abolisher
24 Bramblewood Paragon
25 Jade Bearer
26 Verdant Succession
27 Engineered Explosives
28 Salvaging Station
30 Copy Enchantment
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Into Thin Air
33 Brace for Impact
34 Child of Alara
35 Apothecary Geist
36 Iname, Life Aspect
37 Goryo's Vengeance
38 Spellweaver Helix
39 Worldfire
40 Spider Spawning
41 Spider Spawning
42 Panharmonicon
43 Molderhulk
44 Divine Congregation
45 Wormfang Behemoth
46 Bayou
47 Eureka
48 Mox Emerald
50 Frightshroud Courier
51 Havengul Runebinder
52 Ghosthelm Courier
53 Simian Spirit Guide
54 Goblin Kites
55 Old Man of the Sea
56 Xathrid Gorgon
57 Reality Spasm
58 Thousand-Year Storm
59 Consecrated Sphinx
60 Words of Wisdom
Yeah that seems to work, so many mimic vat tricks.
As for sunburst, the comp rules have:
So march of the machines lets us cast and bounce the EE as a creature, if it is in hand, but once it is in the yard or exile, we can only get it with no counters until we bounce it with rebuild or Into Thin Air.
Without infinite mana from Karn, I dont think we have enough mana. (especially from the start).
In the very top of the stack, we are making a ton of mimic vat tokens of our enchantments. and each mimic vat activation costs 3, and skull costs 5 so we definitely need a good source of mana, we can make a bunch of Mana Crypts, but Mirrorworks costs 2, so making copies is not profitable, (Mana Vault might be enough though?)
Hmm, I had been thinking we would want to get Mirrorworks onto the vat to be able to make an increasing number of mirrorworks (by recasting the original with a token in play), but that might not be needed with infinite mana, but perhaps would be needed as a way to make enough mana? (with march of the machines)
Speaking of the rest of the deck, next we e are doing a Spellweaver Vollute stack again,
And the operations we currently have are:
We have x Spellweaver Volutes on each of the instants, but most importantly on Into Thin Air.
The only sorceries in the deck to trigger the aura are Worldfire, Divine Congregation (neither of which we can recur) Spider spwaning (we don't have black yet) and Acorn Harvest, which we can recast for 3 life.
so we have
7a. Spend 3 life to put x copies of any instants on the stack in any order. (mostly ITA, then one BFI and one Goryo's vengance)
7b. Resolve an ITA to unlock EE
This seems like a dangerous amount of freedom, but none of our instants can unlock flash, and the only way to gain 3 life locks flash.
In particular, apothecary geist gains us 3 life on ETB, but we can't target him with anything yet, and we only have access to the 3 bant colors so we can't even use EE =4 to kill it.
Instead we need to use Child of Alara to blow everything up and Iname, Life Aspect to return the spirit from the graveyard.
Child of Alara (and phantatog) can be targeted by Brace for Impact, and then all three of the legends get reanimated via Goryo's Vengance. (Horobi, Deaths Wail)
8a. resolve a BFI and lock CoA and flash and destroy everything (all Ms and RFAs) to gain 3 life.
8b. resolve a GV to unlock CoA
There are a few potential issues:
Can we even rebuild after the Child goes boom boom? Yes, but we need to prep with Mirrorworks triggers before even casting Acorn Harvest. We also need to be able to save our atog and Horobi, but fortunately those two creatures can be saved by the spells we just introduced. That's some clever deckbuilding! (and also why we aren't using Auratog)
Can Panharmonicons massively increase the amount of life gained, and break the cycle? No because all of the artifacts and enchantments in play are destroyed by the Child's tantrum, which immediately puts Iname's death trigger on the stack. Without flash or anything in play, we need to just let that resolve and give us just 3 life.
Can we make Mimic Vat copies of the legends to kill them via legend rule? Yes but not profitably.
If we kill the Child, we can put it on the vat, make a copy, then reanimate it with Goryo's vengance, and sacrifice the original to the legend rule, but then we either get the death trigger, which we could've gotten from a copy of Brace For Impact just as easily, and then make another vat copy, and get an additional death trigger, but not in a useful location on the stack.
Iname is even worse as it has to exile itself to the trigger to reanimate something, so we can't get both that and a mimic vat copy.
Is there anything I'm missing here?
I think we are at like f_w^3 (life total/3) now?
Artifacts can be bounced back to our hand by Rebuild. Enchantments are okay to go to the graveyard, since they can be retrieved by Skull of Orm. Horobi, Death's Wail can be retrieved by Goryo's Vengeance. Phantatog can be bounced with Brace for Impact. Child of Alara and Iname, Life Aspect can also be brought back with Goryo's Vengeance. Apothecary Geist can die, since we can retrieve it with Iname, Life Aspect. Razorfin Abolisher is normally brought back to our hand after each Jade Bearer combo, so that works out okay I think.
That seems to leave Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Boggart Mob, Jade Bearer, and Bramblewood Paragon as the creatures we still need to bring back. Jade Bearer can be brought back by Verdant Succession triggers that are placed on the stack in the lower hyperstage prior to the megastage transition being executed. Same with Bramblewood Paragon. Boggart Mob can be brought back by Bloodbond March triggers that are placed on the stack in the lower hyperstage. For the green creatures, we need to destroy them in preparation for the megastage transition. (and presumably bring each of them back using one of the Verdant Succesion triggers) Boggart Mob just has to be bounced and replayed, which we normally do anyway. For Goblin Dark-Dwellers, the only way I see how to save it is to Champion it with Boggart Mob; then when Child of Alara destroys everything, the Dark-Dwellers come back onto the battlefield.
Now, what I believe is the trickiest part of making this combo work, is to make sure that after each n-stage transition (in this case, the megastage transition) we go back to the lower hyperstage with and have fewer resources than the last time we were there, but not so much fewer that we don't get the full power of the combo. In particular, we don't want to either have a net gain or net loss of a Razorfin Abolisher token after a megastage transition.
One thing we have to worry about is that we can return to the lower hyperstage with an Engineered Explosives in our hand. So, if we can start the megastage transtion with Explosives on the battlefield (after being used), we could theoretically then go to the higher hyperstage, leave the higher hyperstage with the Explosives in our hand, then return to the lower hyperstage, allowing us to play the Explosives and sacrifice it to get another Razorfin Abolisher token.
What we're hoping for is that the setup required prevents that from happening. In particular, the need to put triggers on the stack for Boggart Mob, Bramblewood Paragon, and Jade Bearer is supposed to keep us from gaining an additional Razorfin Abolisher token. Of course, we also need to make sure that we don't wind up with a net loss of a Razorfin Abolisher token either, as that is too much of a resource loss.
When I last analyzed this, I believe I came to the conclusion that we wound up even on the Abolisher tokens. But, the megastage transition was complicated enough that I wasn't quite sure. Now is as good a time as any to make sure about this.
I think that because we lose flash, we can't do anything tricky until we resolve to the lower mirrorworks trigger.
so the outline of the stack for the combo so far is:
x PB triggers
x BM triggers
x PB triggers
x BM triggers.
...
x batches of PB/BM triggers make a stage with the resource being Metallurgions
Stage
x Battle Cry
Rebuild
PB trigger from lower stage
Stage
Stage
x Battle Cry
Rebuild
PB trigger from lower stage
x of those makes the hyperstage with the resource being RFAs
hyperstage
x Into Thin Air
Child of Alara
PB trigger from lower stage
hyperstage
x Into Thin Air
Child of Alara
PB trigger from lower stage
x of those make the megastage with the resource being life.
So what we need to verify is that the resources can't be smuggled beyond the triggers that separate the stages. (resolving down through the stack, we can go the other way no problem, its just very inefficient)
Metallurgions can't be smuggled past rebuild or past Child, and RFAs can't be smuggled past Child. (and not even life can be brought past Worldfire, but we haven't gotten there yet.)
But things are a bit more subtle and complex than that skeleton and we need to be careful that we aren't costing too much from the neighboring stages. In particular, we want to take only from the very top of the next stage down, and not any more.
And I think EE is one of those annoying subtleties, because we can leave it in hand, I think there might be an issue, I'm gonna investigate, and probably post later today or tomorrow with either an infinite line or any of my close calls.
The triggers you mention do seem to make things a little complicated.
Edit:
Ok, I think it is fine. The key thing is that any of the Bloodbond March / Verdant Succession triggers for Boggart Mob, Bramblewood Paragon, and Jade Bearer are necessarily under the Rebuild that the darkdwellers cast as we ran out of RFAs. If we carry EE in hand down here, we can get an activation, sure, but not on a Jade Bearer, until after the Rebuild that would give us the EE anyway.
Iname exiles itself and we dont have any mirrors/timepieces in play for the Vengance to target it, but we just cast a GV earlier from Spellweaver Volute.
Rebuilding is less efficient without any enchantments carried over, but once we get to a casting of battle cry we get the TYS copies and are back up to speed.
On to the Worldfire/Black mana stage?
A few initial questions:
what all are we putting on the spellweaver helix? Spider Spawning, Worldfire, and divine congregation? Anything else?
How are we recycling Wormfang?
Why divine congregation over ... Oh I see, the options are kinda awful.
Hmm, how are we recycling Wormfang Behemoth? I don't see a way offhand, but I believe we can add Krosan Groundshaker to the deck. That would squeeze out Consecrated Sphinx from the deck, losing a layer.
It would be nice to find a replacement that didn't require an extra card. Something that would allow us to bring back our artifacts in particular. I think in earlier decks we had Goblin Welder, but I'm not sure how to get hasted copies of Goblin Welder after a Worldfire. We could maybe make a token copy of Boggart Mob to exile the Goblin Welder, so that it comes back after Worldfire. But we would need to destroy it as well... and we don't have Engineered Explosives yet to destroy it. So it doesn't look like Goblin Welder quite works. Any other ideas?
But taking an extra card isn't great. It's too bad that Tidehollow Skuller is opponents only.
As for championing a useful goblin, we can get haste in two flavors with chasm guide or hellraiser goblin goblin assassin seems likely to go infinite, same with goblin smuggler
Grenzo, dungeon Warden seems interesting, but goes infinite.
Warren Pilferers are kind of close but again infinite
Leaves the battlefield triggers are also tricky, most that look useful only hit opponents.
I guess there's Lumbering Battlement but that looks like it has the same problem as Wormfang? saprazzan bailiff seems similar
Ooh,
Depending on how the rules work Portcullis might be the card?
I think that lets us get going immediately after worldfire, but might be problematic with other parts of the combo? hmm yeah rebuild doesn't lock flash anymore, I think theres a similar problem with Lumbering Battlement too.
And Sprazzan Bailiff is a Merfolk, which allows it to be targeted by Jade Bearer, so we don't need an extra card to recycle it like Wormfang Behemoth does.
One wrinkle is that Worldfire exiles everything, including our hand. So our plan to rescue some of our creatures by bouncing them to our hand works for Child of Alara, but no longer for Worldfire. However, anything that we can bounce to our hand can also be replayed and countered for Bloodbond March triggers, so we can put BM triggers for all of those creatures on the stack, and get them back eventually. I think that should work.
Edit: No wait, the Bailiff brings our artifacts and enchantments back to our hand. So Engineered Explosives goes back to our hand. Is that infinite? I think so... we can use EE to destroy the Jade Bearer, the JB can target Saprazzan Bailiff and Razorfin Abolisher, we can get an Abolisher token and bounce the Bailiff. We can then use the Bailiff to exile EE, then another JB target will bounce the Bailiff and bring EE to our hand, and we can repeat, getting more Abolisher tokens. So this looks infinite.
there are a few guys that draw cards when they leave the battlefield, but those probably go infinite, Slithermuse, and Thought gorger. Edit oops Slithermuse won't draw after a worldfire.
What about Spell Queller? we can hit it with brace for impact, and it can hold almost all of our key combo cards. Unfortunately it can't get Mirror of Fate to get the other exiled cards back. Is there another option for Mirror of fate? Riftsweeper is probably not enough.
Edit: Oh right we can have mirrorworks triggers for the artifacts. I think Spell Queller might actually work?
A possible solution is to have Spellweaver Volute for the hyperstage, and have Goblin Dark-Dwellers or Spell Queller cast cheap sorceries in the megastage. We haven't really explored this possibility, since having the cheap instants for the hyperstage seemed most natural.
As far as using Spell Queller just to exile cards, that does seem problematic: Start with Spell Queller exiling Acorn Harvest from the stack. Cast Brace for Impact, and counter it, getting copies. Put a Spellweaver Volute on Brace for Impact in the graveyard. Resolve a Brace for Impact, and target Spell Queller, bouncing it. We can now cast Acorn Harvest, and that triggers Spellweaver Volute. Replay Spell Queller, exiling Acorn Harvest again. Resolve the Spellweaver Volute trigger, and we can cast Brace for Impact again. This can bounce Spell Queller again, allowing us to cast Acorn Havest, and it looks like we can do this forever. Since Acorn Harvest can also trigger Battle Cry, we can build up our resources arbitrarily high, I think.
Edit: One possible solution for all this is to replace Brace for Impact and Into Thin Air with Smite the Monstrous, which can also destroy Child of Alara. In addition, we can use earlier copies of Smite the Monstrous to bounce Goblin Dark-Dwellers a bunch of times, so it can replace Into Thin Air as well. Smite the Monstrous can hit all our Legendary creatures, as well as Wormfang Behemoth, so that eliminates the need for Krosan Groundshaker and Goryo's Vengeance. Furthermore, since we now only need to put Spellweaver Volute on one instant, we can get rid of Copy Enchantment as well. So that can potentially save us four (!) cards.
The downside is that Smite the Monstrous can bounce Goblin Dark-Dwellers and Boggart Mob and go back to the lower hyperstage with them in our hand. It doesn't look like bouncing Boggart Mob back to our hand will result in an extra Razorfin Abolisher token, but bouncing Goblin Dark-Dwellers back to our hand might. But again, we need to carefully go over the megastage transition to see how it all pans out.
Hmm, Smite the Monstrous does seem interesting, Getting extra dark dweller bounces allows for more Rebuilds to bounce EE and get a razorfin abolisher token, so it looks like it works over Into thin air there. it targets all of our legends (and the atog), though the actual implementation might be a little tricky there?
And as it would be the only instant to put the Volute on and we get enough copies with TYS. So cutting copy enchantment looks possible.
That does look like a nice solution!
7a*. Spend 3 life to put x copies of StM on the stack. (TYS Copies and Psychic Battle Triggers)
7b*. resolve a StM to get x GDD
8a. resolve a StM to kill Iname and lock AG and gain 3 life.
8b. resolve a StM to kill CoA and destroy everything to lock flash and unlock AG.
We do need to be careful about keeping track of our legends and ensuring we can be set up for the next time through. These rules don't really capture that.
Without Goryo's Vengance we want to either keep the real cards in hand or have a BBM trigger waiting. Which seems a little tricky to manage? Worst case we might need Mirror gallery but still save on cards with StM.
Working around the Wormfang doesn't seem difficult as we should be able to make a token to hide the original under without too much effort once we are that far down the stack.