But I think this is not as good, since we lose Deconstruct. It does get us back to Psychic Battle though.
EDIT: I had a problem using "target land" cards to try to generate mana, because it looks like Worldpurge can do the same things that you can do with a target land. But, if we animate the land, then we can destroy it by targeting it, and then we can make a token copy via Mimic Vat. So, that becomes a possibility for generating mana for mana transitions.
But, the best I can currently do for a 13th stage is a three card stage, and then the animate land card adds a fourth. On the other hand, we need Genesis Wave + 2 other cards to start and draw all our cards, so the best I could do was 62 cards:
EDIT: Okay, I really think I have it this time: Replace Farrelite Priest with Candelabra of Tawnos, and have lands that produce white and blue mana and no other colors. So we have:
We unfortunately have to use Deconstruct to get started it looks like, and Swarm Intelligence doesn't produce quite as many Deconstructs as Precursor Golem. On the plus side, Allay is worth two layers thanks to Swarm Intelligence, and Deconstruct can be worth four.
If we draw Allay and Worldpurge, we can easily get four casts of Allay, just like before. Can we do better? We would like to imprint both Deconstruct and Worldpurge on Acorn Harvest, and then cast multiple Acorn Harvests; if we try to just cast a single Acorn Harvest, then the Worldpurge will interfere with us getting any progress with the Deconstruct. So it looks a little tricky. One problem is that we need multiple Perpetual Timepieces and Spellweaver Helixes, so we need to have March of the Machines, but we need to bounce it before we can use the Perpetual Timepieces.
If we use Mox Emerald as our artifact, we wind up with GGGG and 18 life, and can Genesis Wave for up to 18 cards. If we Candelabra of Tawnos as our artifact, and try to keep Mox Emerald in our hand, we wind up with GGG and 17 life, and can Genesis Wave for up to 16 cards.
assuming we use the Mox Emerald, that leaves us with G1 and 4 life after we use the Radiant Fountain. That means we are one mana short of being able to cast an initial Allay and still have enough life to flashback Acorn Harvest. So it doesn't seem to quite work out - unless there is a card that we can cut?
It can't be March of the Machines, since we need multiple Spellweaver Helixes to be able to trigger both Worldpurge and Deconstruct. We could do Swarm Intelligence, but that drops the number of layers of Deconstruct down to two, so I think this will be worse than casting four Allays with Swarm Intelligence. So maybe dropping Su-Chi and Horobi, Death's Wail is the best option.
Without those two cards we have G1 mana and 6 life. Okay, so we get all those permanents on the battlefield, and a bunch of Dual Nature triggers as well. We want to leave the Dual Nature triggers for Omniscience, Vedalken Orrery, Sentry Oak, and Sylvan Echoes on the stack. Put the Spellweaver Helix token and SPellweaver Helix trigger up next. I think we can let the other triggers resolve, having the Copy Enchantment token copy Swarm Intelligence.
Cast Allay with buyback (G mana, 4 life), getting 3 Swarm Intelligence triggers, 2 Psychic Battle triggers, and Cowardice triggers. We can bounce Copy Enchantment, replaying it to get three more Psychic Battles, up to 5. The Psychic Battle triggers have to be used to bounce Cowardice and redirect to a disposable token (say March of the Machines), I believe. The first Swarm Intelligence trigger resolves and we get six bounces, bouncing Dual Nature five times (up to 64) and then Psychic Battle (up to 66). The second takes us up to 64*2^66 + 2 = 2^72 + 2 Psychic Battles. The last one takes us to more than 2^2^72 Dual Natures and Swarm Intelligences and a few Psychic Battles, and we can also bounce March of the Machines.
Tap the two Perpetual Timepieces to mill Worldpurge, two Acorn Harvests, and something else. Resolve the Spellweaver triggers to imprint both Worldpurge and Deconstruct. Cast Acorn Harvest from your hand, triggering Deconstruct and Worldpurge; cast the Deconstruct, but not the Worldpurge. Deconstruct gets more than 2^2^72 Swarm Intelligence copies. After we resolve the first and destroy the Perpetual Timepiece token, we get GGG mana. Play March of the Machines. After we resolve the second Swarm Intelligence trigger, we get a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers and Cowardice triggers. We can now start bouncing Perpetual Timepiece, getting a lot of tokens, then destroy one of the tokens to get GGG mana and another Allay. By the end we have cast more than 2^2^72 Allays to get more than 2^^^(2^2^72) Dual Natures. Save enough mana so that we can flashback Acorn Harvest, getting a copy of Worldpurge (and Deconstruct, but I don't think it does as much this time); but before that we play a Dual Nature and have more than 2^^^(2^2^72) copies of Dual Nature triggers on the stack. After Worldpurge, get our Dual Nature along with our Omniscience and Vedalken Orrery tokens. Play Sentry Oak and Sylvan Echoes, getting more than 2^^^(2^2^72) copies of each.
That seems pretty good; is there any way to get Su-Chi involved as well?
Argh, we got too excited again. Candelabra of Tawnos has the same problem that Calciform Pools had: It can generate some initial mana after resolving Worldpurge. So we can repeatedly cast that without requiring any hasty Metallurgeons and go infinite. To get that mana we just need to leave the Candelabra activation on the stack in the correct position.
Walking Atlas still doesn't work with Goblin Gardener to gain life. So I currently don't see a fix for that. So close :<
Wait - for one hyperstage transition, we can use a Su-Chi to get a lot of Vile Redeemer mana, and then we can use that mana to put a lot of Candelabra of Tawnos activations on the stack to keep untapping Sejiri Refuge and Kabira Crossroads. But then, if we stop using Su-Chis, then we gradually deplete our store of mana resetting our hyperstage each time, so we can't go infinite.
- resolve Worldpurge.
- resolve a Dual Nature triggers to get a Vedalken Orrery token and an Omniscience token.
- cast Primeval Titan (bounced by Worldpurge) to collect the lands from the library.
- resolve a Candelabra of Tawnos activation (including redirection) to untap the lands and get some mana
- cast Vile Redeemer (bounced by Worldpurge) pay for the trigger and gain a lot more mana
...
- put a Candelabra activation on the stack
- put Dual Nature trigger for Omnniscience and Vedalken Orrery on the stack
- put Worldpurge on the stack
...
We keep paying for the Candelabra with Vile Redeemer mana, but store it on the stack when it would usually be wiped out by the Worldpurge.
But, we can't use our lands to pay for Vile Redeemer, it requires colorless mana. (We can't have Radiant Fountain of course, but that doesn't affect the start from my previous post.)
We cast Allay with buyback (G and 5 life) targeting Copy Enchantment. Cowardice, 2 Psychic Battles and 3 Swarm Intelligences trigger. Put one of the Psychic Battles to the bottom of the stack, the other on top, just below the Cowardice. Horobi triggers as well, but we ignore it by resolving Cowardice first.
Resolve the first Swarm Intelligence, triggering Psychic Battles for a total of seven enchantment bounces. copy Dual Natures 6 times (2^8 DN) the last time copy Psychic Battle again (2^8+6 PB). Same procedure for second Swarm Intelligence (~2^2^8 DN/PB). For the third we change it up and copy Swarm Intelligence at the end (2^2^2^8 DN/SI). We also use that one to get an Opalescence token and spend on Psychic Battle trigger to bounce the original Opalescence. We can rely on Dual Nature to destroy the token and leave us with noncreature enchantments.
At the end we resolve the Psychic Battle trigger for the original Allay to redirect it to the Omniscience token, the resolve the Allay to put it back into our hand.
Now we spend the last of our mana and life to flash back Acorn Harvest. That triggers the Spellweaver Helix and we cast Deconstruct, getting about 2^2^2^8 Swarm Intelligence triggers. Each of those will trigger all our Psychic Battles which we use to target Su-Chi. About once per SwarmIntelligence we need to bounce the original to top up on tokens, but for the most part we destroy tokens with Horobi to get 4 mana. That mana is then spent on Allay to increase our Dual Nature count and ultimately get more Psychic Battles before resolving the next Swarm Intelligence trigger.
This is the usual layer structure. We get more than 2^^^^(2^2^2^8) copies of Swarm Intelligence. In the end keep some mana in the pool and resolve the last copy of Deconstruct on the Spellweaver Helix so we have GGG10 left over.
Exile the Perpetual Timepiece to put Black Lotus and Genesis Wave back into the library. Cycle the Rebuild to draw Genesis Wave. Cast Genesis Wave with X=6. We get 2^^^^(2^2^2^8) Swarm Intelligence copies.
X=6 is enough to retrieve all permanents we need for the combo (use Disciple of Tevesh Szat instead of the Minion). We already have the Allay in hand, the rest of the instants/sorceries are accessible by milling them. So after some setup Genesis Waves copies we can start retrieving Black Lotus for lots of red mana and do everything the deck wants to do.
We get roughly F_{w^3 + w12 + 2}(2^^^^(2^2^2^8)) Sentry Oaks before the first combat.
Some minor changes: We can have the original Copy Enchantment copy Psychic Battle whenever we need copies of Psychic Battles, so we get more than 2^2^523 Swarm Intelligences after the first Allay. I believe Deconstruct is actually four layers, so we get to more than 2^^^^(2^2^523) after Deconstruct.
EDIT: Getting back to the deck with sideboard - I would think that it should be possible to get 14 stages, given that the previous 13-stage deck still had red mana available. I haven't figured out a way yet though, as the obvious choice for the red mana stage would be Goblins, but we are using Goblins in the initial stages.
Uses all of green, blue, and black. The main two challenges: 1. How do we do the megastage with red mana? Which sorcery do we use? 2. How to handle the lands so that the Kavu mana works out properly. But, it looks promising.
Of course that provides a way for lands to leave the battlefield besides Worldpurge. But without animation they can't be bounced cheaply, so lifegain lands + Walking Atlas should work as our method to recover the life used to cast Flash of Defiance.
This also provides some lands that can enter untapped and tap exactly once, so there should be no problem with the Kavus.
Well, I mean if someone wants to be a total jerk and just kill Turn 1 they can use Flash to bring in a Protean Hulk, sacrifice the hulk, then get 4 Disciple of the Vault, 4 Phyrexian Marauder, and 4 Shifting Wall. You can also use Hangarback Walker and Walking Ballista if you want. The end result is that the 0/0 creatures all die and deal a total of 23 damage to the opponent, effectively ending the game. That's actually part of the reason Blood Artist costs 2 mana instead of 1 and why all the on death and on entering effects are now stapled onto to 2 cmc or higher creatures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Huh, trying to use landshaping abilities like Kavu Recluse for a stage lets us go infinite. That's because we can put that ability on the stack where it will not be messed with by Worldpurge but after resolving it we can still wait a bit before we put the actual targeting on the stack.
- start with the original Kavu Recluse in play and one untapped, hasty token.
- tap the token to put landshaping ability on the stack.
- use Worldpurge to bounce the original (also getting rid of all green mana and other hasty tokens)
- resolve the landshaping stuff and get a green mana.
- play the Kavu and leave a Bloodbond March trigger on the stack.
- use the green mana to kill the Kavu and get a hasty token.
- resolve the Bloodbond March to get back into starting position.
We can actually go infinite with that since we can for example build up an arbitrary amount of Bloodbond March triggers.
If the Kavu produced the mana directly instead of using the landshaping stuff we would not be able to do this. We can't keep mana abilities on the stack and both hasty tokens and mana are removed by using Worldpurge.
Hmm, that's troublesome; so if we want any mana stages, it looks like the stage creature has to directly produce the mana.
There is another problem with the last deck I posted: Night Dealings can fetch Black Lotus at just the cost of black mana, and then the Black Lotus can produce red mana. So, it looks like we can't have both Night Dealings and Black Lotus, unless black mana is both incidental (i.e. can't fuel the combo by itself) and is more expensive than any mana that can fuel the combo by itself.
There's an infinite with Cultural Exchange and Phelddagrif. A cooperative opponent can give us the life we need to keep flashing back Acorn Harvest. We need to first donate a copy of Phelddagrif and Farrelite priest. Then every time we flashback Acorn Harvest we get Cultural Exchange to donate a bunch of Su-Chi tokens, and get Deconstruct to kill the donated tokens and get us green mana. We use Phelddagrif with green to keep their creature count up for future Cultural Exchanges. They convert the colorless they get from Su-Chi into white and use Pheldagriff to give us the life we need to flash back Acorn Harvest again.
Hmm - I guess Soldevi Steam Beast has the same problem with donation. How about replacing Phelddagrif with Hunted Phantasm and Tamanoa? We could even add a layer by adding something like Keldon Marauders, but that would take us over the limit for the second deck; it does bring the first deck up to w^3 + w13 + 12 as well.
EDIT: Okay, here's another attempt at 14 stages: We will use Assault Formation + Ulvenwald Captive for a green mana stage, then use Guardian Zendikon + Island to create blue mana on top. We need to switch the hyperstage and megastage from green to red, and so we have the problem again of how we use a sorcery to gain red mana. I don't think Seismic Spike will work with this combo, as both Seismic Spike and Assault Formation will destroy our Island. So I will try to use Mana Geyser. We need to donate lands to the opponent, and Hunted Phantasm + Cultural Exchange seems like the most efficient way of doing so that we know of. Adding Swarm Intelligence seems to be at least as efficient as adding cards to allow us to have multiple tapped lands to donate.
Should get F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (N)), if it all works out correctly.
EDIT: Spiteful Visions shouldn't be there. On the other hand, I'm missing a Forest for Goblin Clearcutter to sacrifice. I'd like to use Dryad Arbor, since we can get lots of Dual Nature copies, and Dryad Arbor could replace Swarm Intelligence. But, I think we can put a Guardian Zendikon on Dryad Arbor and destroy it with Assault Formation, which would allow us to imprint it on Mimic Vat and get a hasted Dryad Arbor, getting us a spare green mana. So that's no goood. There are a few Forests that usually come in tapped; Stomping Ground is no good since we can afford to pay the 2 life to have it come in untapped, and again Assault Formation can get us a token of it. Sheltered Thicket can be brought back to our hand via Worldpurge and recycled. So that leaves Cinder Glade; we can replace the Island with say Volcanic Island to avoid having enough basic lands for the Cinder Glade to come in untapped.
So replace Spiteful Visions and Island with Cinder Glade and Volcanic Island.
EDIT: We can add a layer back by replacing Reality Spasm with Herbal Poultice, which can lead into Genesis Wave for that extra layer. Back up to F_{w^3 + w14 + 6}(...).
EDIT: Bleh, we can't have Deconstruct in this deck, since it can generate green mana too easily. We can replace it with two Chancellor of the Tangles, removing Justice to make space. I'm sure there's a more efficient way to get started, but I don't know of a way yet.
EDIT: Hmm, we could start Black Lotus / Channel / Perpetual Timepiece / Tundra / Replenish to get Omniscience and some other enchantment (Opalescence maybe) onto the battlefield. This requires three new cards rather than five for the Genesis Wave start. But, Genesis Wave contributes to the layer sequence, so it is really four new cards, and it looks like we need at least one new card to draw enough cards for the combat phase to work properly. We could still come out ahead if we can do it with just one new card. But, Minds Aglow doesn't work, and Noggle Ransacker by itself doesn't seem to be enough - if we go Opalescence / Dual Nature / Noggle Ransacker, we get three more cards, and then we need Worldpurge to be able to replay Noggle Ransacker. So, no improvement yet.
EDIT: Okay, the following is much better: Start with Black Lotus / Channel / Perpetual Timepiece. Tap the Timepiece to mill a couple of cards (perhaps the lifegain lands), and then exile it to shuffle Black Lotus back into the library. Cycle Rebuild to redraw Black Lotus, and sacrifice the Black Lotus for more green mana. Cast Genesis Wave for however many we need. The downside is that the Perpetual Timepiece is now in exile, and we can't redraw it until the next Genesis Wave, which won't happen until the first combat phase. Still, there should be enough to get a bunch of Dual Natures, and we can create at least one hasted token to attack with I should think. So we can drop the two Chancellor of the Tangles, and reinstate Justice and Repercussion. Damage goes back up to F_{w^3 + w14 + 7}(...).
I checked whether this start could improve the 60-card deck, but in that case, since we need to have Deconstruct, we might as well use it.
EDIT: Hmm, I'm having trouble with the start for this latest deck. Five-Alarm Fire is tough to use, since not only does it deal 5 damage to us, we need to create five hasted creatures to get it charged. I'm looking for alternatives, but haven't found a really good one. Anthem of Rakdos could work, if we have two of them in play when each Anthem of Rakdos trigger gets resolved, so that we deal 4 damage to ourselves. But I haven't quite figured out how to make it work.
The combo in the latest 75 card deck seems to work and I found no infinites. Although Guardian Zendikon comes very close to targeting animated lands itself. The saving grace there is that we only get it back into hand with Worldpurge which also removes all copies and Copy Enchantment never targets.
Five-Alarm Fire is probably impossible to use, since I can't find a way to force the opponent to gain life. Spiritual Focus would require them to have cards in hand to discard, but we can't force them to draw cards and the would run out anyway.
Anthem of Rakdos doesn't require damaging the opponent, so that would work. It is hard to use for the start since we need to be hellbent when the Anthem resolves, but need to have card in hands to discard when we resolve the Pain Magnification triggered by it.
Getting started seems hard. I'm thinking abound some permutations hoping to make use of Herbal Poultice, but we might require an extra card there.
I thought for a moment that Thieves' Auction could perhaps be used as a replacement for Cultural Exchange / Hunted Phantasm; we could cast it when we have an even number of nontoken permanents on the battlefield, so that the opponent would be forced to take the tapped land. Unfortunately, we could use it to gain life from lifegain lands. If there were a version that didn't exile the permanents first, that might work. Too bad Scrambleverse untaps the permanents.
EDIT: Hmm, Glorybringer seems like an ideal replacement for Five-Alarm Fire. I think we can get started with the following:
Play Black Lotus for green, Channel, Perpetual Timepiece (19 life). Tap the Timepiece to mill two cards (two instants/sorceries, not sure which ones yet), then exile it to shuffle Black Lotus into the library (17 life). Cycle Rebuild to draw Black Lotus (15 life), then play it for more green and cast Genesis Wave for 13 cards (2 life).
Resolve the ETB trigger for Primeval Titan, putting Radiant Fountain and Glimmerpost onto the battlefield tapped (5 life). Before letting any of the Dual Nature triggers resolve, cast Worldpurge. Bring Opalescence, Dual Nature, Copy Enchantment, Glorybringer, Spiritual Focus, and Omniscience back to our hand, along with Cultural Exchange. Shuffle the rest of the permanents into the deck. Resolve all the Dual Nature triggers; The Primeval Titan token triggers, bringing Radiant Fountain and Glimmerpost back onto the battlefield again (8 life). Have the Copy Enchantment token come in as a copy of Dual Nature. Repaly Opalescence. Replay Dual Nature, getting 3 more Dual Nature tokens for 6 total. Play Copy Enchantment, copying Dual Nature and getting 7 more token copies for 14 total. Play Glorybringer and Spiritual Focus, getting 16 copies of each. Cast Cultural Exchange, exchanging our Pain Magnfication token with one of the 10 Goblin tokens the opponent controls.
Start the combat phase, and attack with all 16 Glorybringers. All 16 of the Glorybringers trigger their damage ability. Resolve the first ability, and deal 4 damage to our Goblin token. This triggers the Repercussion and Justice tokens. Resolve the Justice ability first, dealing 4 damage to ourselves (4 life). This triggers Pain Magnification; we discard Omniscience. This triggers our 16 Spiritual Focuses, and we gain 32 life and draw 16 cards. I believe there should be no more problems from here; we can draw Mirror of Fate, and use it to put Perpetual Timepiece back in the library and we can draw it again. We can then use the Timepiece to shuffle Black Lotus and Genesis Wave back into our library, and redraw them. Not sure how best to use our 16 card draws, but certainly we will get a gazillion Dual Natures and Justices, so that when we resolve that Repercussion trigger we will get a lot of Justice triggers. With 15 more Glorybringer triggers to go, I believe this gets us to more than F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + 14 + 6} (15)) damage in the end.
EDIT: Hmm, I just noticed that Glorybringer only deals damage to an opponent's creature. I don't think this is a problem; Cultural Exchange is cheap enough so that in general, we can deal damage to an opponent creature, and then cast Cultural Exchange to exchange control of the creature so that we will be the ones to take damage. For the opening, we can just have the opponent take the damage from the first Repercussion, since he can take damage up to four times without dying. After that we will have tons of resources to be able to cast Cultural Exchange whenever we need to.
Oh, I just noticed more problems with that combat layer:
- Anthem of Rakdos doesn't trigger Repercussions at all.
- Five-Alarm Fire requires dealing damage to the opponent.
- Glorybringers all trigger simultaneously, so the Psychic Battles for all of them are gone by the time we resolve the first one. going through the combo betweern them then removes the targets via Worldpurge.
Fudge. Well, at least Glorybringer allows us to get started, which gets us to F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} at least. We can do a bit better if we have some card that triggers damage to us during combat (like Anthem of Rakdos), since we can then replace Repercussion with Finest Hour. But we need to find some such card that allows us to get started.
EDIT: I was thinking that something that deals damage to an attacking creature, like Arbalest Elite or Burning Oil, might work. But, we have creatures that can increase in toughness, so I think that would go infinite.
I think Ordeal of Purphoros would get that final layer, with the double triggered abilities. Alas, we can't have creature enchantments.
Lord of Shatterskull Pass I think would also get that extra layer, since the damage it deals is nontargeted. But can we get started with it? That looks exceptionally hard.
Firemane Avenger is perhaps easier to get started with, but we do need two more creatures to attack with.
@Sugarshark17: Note that in this challenge we are the first player, so we only get seven cards. Also, only damage during our own turn 1 counts.
@Iijil: Flameblast Dragon can also deal damage to ourselves, but it requires paying 3R to do so. I can't figure out how to get started with either Firemane Avenger or Flameblast Dragon with the extra requirements. If we just needed one hasted creature, we can probably get started using the original Herbal Poultice and Mimic Vault. But for Fireman Avenger we would need three Mimic Vaults, and for Flameblast Dragon we would need red mana somehow, and I don't know how to get it without Black Lotus.
Anthem of Rakdos might work, but I don't know how we would get a card in our hand between the resolving an Anthem of Rakdos and resolving a subsequent Pain Magnification.
Without being able to squeeze in a seventh layer or Finest Hour, the best that I can see how to do is to use Lord of Shatterkull Pass, and replace Repercussion with Noggle Ransacker. With Noggle Ransacker we can draw cards up to 52 times; it shouldn't be too hard to get close to that with an initial Genesis Wave, perhaps with Worldpurge and Allay remaining in our hand. We should then be able to draw Genesis Wave many times, generating something like F_{w^3 + w14 + 2}(N) with N somewhere between 30 and 50 I would think. Then the final damage would be F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 5} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 2} (N))), better than with Glorybringer.
EDIT: Perhaps we can do better, using the following:
I would like to have used Repercussion, but that runs into the same problem of losing targeted creatures. Still, this looks like it just beats the previous ending with Lord of Shatterskull Pass. I haven't worked out the start, but it shouldn't be too hard to get going since we just need one hasted token. Final damage should be F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (N)).
So, the best thing seems to be to switch Finest Hour with Noggle Ransacker, which should have no trouble getting going. This puts us at about the same damage as the Lord of Shatterskull Pass version, but this version seems a little more convenient.
EDIT: Wait, can we replace Hunted Phantasm, Cultural Exchange, and the fourth Acorn Harvest with Sky Swallower? We can play Sky Swallower soon after Worldpurge, right after we use Primeval Titan go fetch our lifegain lands. So the opponent would get Primeval Titan, the tapped lifegain lands, Sky Swallower, and the tokens of Vedalken Orrery and Omniscience[/c]. Only losing the Vedalken Orrery and Omniscience tokens are bad. To deal with those, I would think we can stack multiple Omniscience and/or Vedalken Orrery Dual Nature triggers on the stack prior to flashbacking Acorn Harvest. So the stack will have something like
so after Worldpurge, we can get some Omniscience tokens and a Vedalken Orrery token, then cast Primeval Titan and Sky Swallower. Then, we resolve more triggers until we get another Vedlaken Orrery token and Omniscience token.
To give lots of Pain Magnification tokens to the opponent, we will need to cast more stuff, like Vile Redeemer, Horobi, Death's Wail, Su-Chi, and a few enchantments to generate lots of Dual Natures, and then Pain Magnification. But, I don't see the problem with the opponent getting any of those.
So, if this works, we can go with the Lord of Shatterskull Pass ending along with Noggle Ransacker, and then add Repercussion and Finest Hour, getting the final damage up to F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 2} (N))), where N is maybe somewhere between 30 and 50.
The best I can think of is to use Five-Alarm Fire, and add something that allows the opponent to gain life. I suppose Tamanoa will work, and we can target the opponent with a Five-Alarm Fire to trigger donated Tamanoas. We have to replace Finest Hour, so we are reduced to F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 2} (N))) damage.
In each combat we deal the minimum amount of damage to make use of the Five-Alarm Fires. So we only need to keep one Ransacker discard available for after the first combat so we can gain as much life as needed for the World at Wars we cast at the same time. That decreases N by 1, but that's better than losing Finest Hour
EDIT: I was thinking about implementing a proper layer for the opponents life by using an alternative for World at War that gives us as many combats as we can make use of (limited by opponents life). But a cooperative opponent can gain life via donated merfolks. so that goes infinite.
On the plus side I noticed that we can just donate Judge of Currents copies and tap the opponents merfolk via regeneration from Herbal Poultice, so any worries about them not having life are moot.
EDIT2: Oops, Judge of Current is still a may. So No opponent life layer because of cooperation infinite, but we need the Ransacker + Spiritual Focus stuff to force them to gain life.
I thought about having Blood-Chin Fanatic bounce Tidal Warrior to have an entry of black into Merfolk, but the best sequence I could think of was
Judge of Currents
Tidal Warrior
Aquatic Incursion
Blood-Chin Fanatic
Basal Thrull
Thrull Champion
which requires one extra card.
If we give up on getting that extra layer, is there a way to create a Goblin Bushwhacker deck that can still start out Black Lotus / Mox Emerald / Forest / Channel / Genesis Wave? I can manage a deck without the Forest, but I don't think going Black Lotus / Channel / {c]Precursor Golem[/c] / Deconstruct / Genesis Wave is as good a start.
Well, we can go:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Chatter of the Squirrel
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Emerald
25 Vile Redeemer
26 Rude Awakening
27 Swarm Intelligence
28 Worldpurge
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Spellweaver Helix
33 Primeval Titan
34 Glimmerpost
35 Radiant Fountain
36 Tropical Island
37 Goblin Gardener
38 Mad Auntie
39 Facevaulter
40 Basal Thrull
41 Thrull Champion
42 Godtoucher
43 Everglove Courier
45 Ghosthelm Courier
46 Possessed Aven
47 Centaur Archer
48 Maze Glider
49 Possessed Centaur
50 Eastern Paladin
51 Frightshroud Courier
52 Dwarven Warriors
53 Possessed Barbarian
54 Minion of Tevesh Szat
55 Goblin Bushwhacker
56 Genesis Wave
57 Curse of Verbosity
58 World at War
59 Channel
60 Black Lotus
But I think this is not as good, since we lose Deconstruct. It does get us back to Psychic Battle though.
EDIT: I had a problem using "target land" cards to try to generate mana, because it looks like Worldpurge can do the same things that you can do with a target land. But, if we animate the land, then we can destroy it by targeting it, and then we can make a token copy via Mimic Vat. So, that becomes a possibility for generating mana for mana transitions.
But, the best I can currently do for a 13th stage is a three card stage, and then the animate land card adds a fourth. On the other hand, we need Genesis Wave + 2 other cards to start and draw all our cards, so the best I could do was 62 cards:
2 Grip of Chaos
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Deep Reconnaissance
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Emerald
25 Vile Redeemer
26 Deconstruct
27 Precursor Golem
28 Worldpurge
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Acorn Harvest
33 Spellweaver Helix
34 Gerrard's Verdict
35 Island
36 Judge of Currents
37 Merfolk Sovereign
38 Aquatic Incursion
39 Nature's Revolt
40 Goblin Gardener
41 Mad Auntie
42 Facevaulter
43 Basal Thrull
44 Thrull Champion
46 Everglove Courier
47 Nectar Faerie
48 Ghosthelm Courier
49 Possessed Aven
50 Centaur Archer
51 Maze Glider
52 Possessed Centaur
53 Eastern Paladin
54 Frightshroud Courier
55 Dwarven Warriors
56 Possessed Barbarian
57 Minion of Tevesh Szat
58 Reality Spasm
59 Noggle Ransacker
60 Genesis Wave
61 Channel
62 Black Lotus
EDIT: Okay, I really think I have it this time: Replace Farrelite Priest with Candelabra of Tawnos, and have lands that produce white and blue mana and no other colors. So we have:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Candelabra of Tawnos
18 Metallurgeon
19 Chatter of the Squirrel
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Emerald
25 Vile Redeemer
26 Deconstruct
27 Swarm Intelligence
28 Worldpurge
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Spellweaver Helix
33 Walking Atlas
34 Sejiri Refuge
35 Kabira Crossroads
36 Goblin Gardener
37 Mad Auntie
38 Facevaulter
39 Basal Thrull
40 Thrull Champion
41 Godtoucher
42 Everglove Courier
43 Nectar Faerie
45 Possessed Aven
46 Centaur Archer
47 Maze Glider
48 Possessed Centaur
49 Eastern Paladin
50 Frightshroud Courier
51 Dwarven Warriors
52 Possessed Barbarian
53 Minion of Tevesh Szat
54 Goblin Bushwhacker
55 Genesis Wave
56 Sylvan Echoes
57 Sentry Oak
58 World at War
59 Channel
60 Black Lotus
This should get us up to F_{w^3 + w12 + 5}.
What do you think?
Well, we will need Primeval Titan instead of Walking Atlas, but that is the only small error I found in the deck.
Leaving the Grip of Chaos randomness behind in addition to increasing the layer count is amazing.
We unfortunately have to use Deconstruct to get started it looks like, and Swarm Intelligence doesn't produce quite as many Deconstructs as Precursor Golem. On the plus side, Allay is worth two layers thanks to Swarm Intelligence, and Deconstruct can be worth four.
If we draw Allay and Worldpurge, we can easily get four casts of Allay, just like before. Can we do better? We would like to imprint both Deconstruct and Worldpurge on Acorn Harvest, and then cast multiple Acorn Harvests; if we try to just cast a single Acorn Harvest, then the Worldpurge will interfere with us getting any progress with the Deconstruct. So it looks a little tricky. One problem is that we need multiple Perpetual Timepieces and Spellweaver Helixes, so we need to have March of the Machines, but we need to bounce it before we can use the Perpetual Timepieces.
EDIT: So, we can start with
Black Lotus
Channel
some artifact
Deconstruct
Genesis Wave
Allay
some spell
If we use Mox Emerald as our artifact, we wind up with GGGG and 18 life, and can Genesis Wave for up to 18 cards. If we Candelabra of Tawnos as our artifact, and try to keep Mox Emerald in our hand, we wind up with GGG and 17 life, and can Genesis Wave for up to 16 cards.
What we would like to draw:
1 Opalescence
2 Dual Nature
3 Vedalken Orrery
4 Omniscience
5 Copy Enchantment
6 Psychic Battle
7 Cowardice
8 Sylvan Echoes
9 Sentry Oak
10 March of the Machines
11 Spellweaver Helix
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Swarm Intelligence
14 Su-Chi
15 Horobi, Death's Wail
16 Radiant Fountain
assuming we use the Mox Emerald, that leaves us with G1 and 4 life after we use the Radiant Fountain. That means we are one mana short of being able to cast an initial Allay and still have enough life to flashback Acorn Harvest. So it doesn't seem to quite work out - unless there is a card that we can cut?
It can't be March of the Machines, since we need multiple Spellweaver Helixes to be able to trigger both Worldpurge and Deconstruct. We could do Swarm Intelligence, but that drops the number of layers of Deconstruct down to two, so I think this will be worse than casting four Allays with Swarm Intelligence. So maybe dropping Su-Chi and Horobi, Death's Wail is the best option.
Without those two cards we have G1 mana and 6 life. Okay, so we get all those permanents on the battlefield, and a bunch of Dual Nature triggers as well. We want to leave the Dual Nature triggers for Omniscience, Vedalken Orrery, Sentry Oak, and Sylvan Echoes on the stack. Put the Spellweaver Helix token and SPellweaver Helix trigger up next. I think we can let the other triggers resolve, having the Copy Enchantment token copy Swarm Intelligence.
Cast Allay with buyback (G mana, 4 life), getting 3 Swarm Intelligence triggers, 2 Psychic Battle triggers, and Cowardice triggers. We can bounce Copy Enchantment, replaying it to get three more Psychic Battles, up to 5. The Psychic Battle triggers have to be used to bounce Cowardice and redirect to a disposable token (say March of the Machines), I believe. The first Swarm Intelligence trigger resolves and we get six bounces, bouncing Dual Nature five times (up to 64) and then Psychic Battle (up to 66). The second takes us up to 64*2^66 + 2 = 2^72 + 2 Psychic Battles. The last one takes us to more than 2^2^72 Dual Natures and Swarm Intelligences and a few Psychic Battles, and we can also bounce March of the Machines.
Tap the two Perpetual Timepieces to mill Worldpurge, two Acorn Harvests, and something else. Resolve the Spellweaver triggers to imprint both Worldpurge and Deconstruct. Cast Acorn Harvest from your hand, triggering Deconstruct and Worldpurge; cast the Deconstruct, but not the Worldpurge. Deconstruct gets more than 2^2^72 Swarm Intelligence copies. After we resolve the first and destroy the Perpetual Timepiece token, we get GGG mana. Play March of the Machines. After we resolve the second Swarm Intelligence trigger, we get a bunch of Psychic Battle triggers and Cowardice triggers. We can now start bouncing Perpetual Timepiece, getting a lot of tokens, then destroy one of the tokens to get GGG mana and another Allay. By the end we have cast more than 2^2^72 Allays to get more than 2^^^(2^2^72) Dual Natures. Save enough mana so that we can flashback Acorn Harvest, getting a copy of Worldpurge (and Deconstruct, but I don't think it does as much this time); but before that we play a Dual Nature and have more than 2^^^(2^2^72) copies of Dual Nature triggers on the stack. After Worldpurge, get our Dual Nature along with our Omniscience and Vedalken Orrery tokens. Play Sentry Oak and Sylvan Echoes, getting more than 2^^^(2^2^72) copies of each.
That seems pretty good; is there any way to get Su-Chi involved as well?
Walking Atlas still doesn't work with Goblin Gardener to gain life. So I currently don't see a fix for that. So close :<
- resolve Worldpurge.
- resolve a Dual Nature triggers to get a Vedalken Orrery token and an Omniscience token.
- cast Primeval Titan (bounced by Worldpurge) to collect the lands from the library.
- resolve a Candelabra of Tawnos activation (including redirection) to untap the lands and get some mana
- cast Vile Redeemer (bounced by Worldpurge) pay for the trigger and gain a lot more mana
...
- put a Candelabra activation on the stack
- put Dual Nature trigger for Omnniscience and Vedalken Orrery on the stack
- put Worldpurge on the stack
...
We keep paying for the Candelabra with Vile Redeemer mana, but store it on the stack when it would usually be wiped out by the Worldpurge.
So it looks like that infinite is indeed impossible. I'll think about it some more, but things are looking good again.
2 Grip of Chaos
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Deep Reconnaissance
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Emerald
25 Vile Redeemer
26 Deconstruct
27 Precursor Golem
28 Worldpurge
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Spellweaver Helix
33 Acorn Harvest
34 Gerrard's Verdict
35 Forest
36 Judge of Currents
37 Merfolk Sovereign
38 Aquatic Incursion
39 Urborg Elf
40 Everglove Courier
41 Nectar Faerie
42 Ghosthelm Courier
43 Possessed Aven
44 Centaur Archer
45 Maze Glider
47 Liberated Dwarf
48 Krark-Clan Stoker
49 Mad Auntie
50 Dralnu's Crusade
51 Frightshroud Courier
52 Embalmer's Tools
53 Devout Chaplain
54 Royal Assassin
55 Paragon of Open Graves
56 Lightbringer
57 Dwarven Warriors
58 Karplusan Yeti
59 Reality Spasm
60 Consecrated Sphinx
61 Noggle Ransacker
62 Channel
63 Black Lotus
It's a 23-card stage sequence though, as opposed to the two 22-card sequences we already have.
Making another attempt at a deck with sideboard:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Deep Reconnaissance
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Emerald
24 Wormfang Behemoth
26 Deconstruct
27 Swarm Intelligence
28 Worldpurge
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Acorn Harvest
33 Spellweaver Helix
34 Gerrard's Verdict
35 Island
36 Judge of Currents
37 Merfolk Sovereign
38 Aquatic Incursion
39 Nature's Revolt
40 Goblin Gardener
41 Mad Auntie
42 Facevaulter
43 Basal Thrull
44 Thrull Champion
45 Godtoucher
46 Everglove Courier
47 Nectar Faerie
48 Ghosthelm Courier
50 Centaur Archer
51 Maze Glider
52 Possessed Centaur
53 Eastern Paladin
54 Frightshroud Courier
55 Dwarven Warriors
56 Possessed Barbarian
57 Minion of Tevesh Szat
58 Goblin Bushwhacker
59 Genesis Wave
60 Night Dealings
61 Justice
62 Repercussion
63 Spiteful Visions
64 Spiritual Focus
65 Pain Magnification
66 Five-Alarm Fire
67 World at War
68 Winding Constrictor
69 Phelddagrif
70 Cultural Exchange
71 Channel
72 Black Lotus
Final damage: F_{w^3 + w13 + 13} (F_{w^3 + w13 + 12}(N))
EDIT: Iijil, what do you think about the start? Is the 2^^^(2^2^72) correct/improvable?
As for the start on the 60 card deck, I think I found a slight improvement:
Play the first 5 and Genesis Wave for X=13. We have G and 5 life.
We reveal and put into play: Omniscience, Vedalken Orrery, Opalescence, Dual Nature, Copy Enchantment, Cowardice, Psychic Battle, Swarm Intelligence, Perpetual Timepiece, Spellweaver Helix, Su-Chi, Horobi, Death's Wail, Primeval Titan.
We get token copies of the enchantments and creatures. Primeval Titan fetches Sejiri Refuge and Kabira Crossroads, we gain 3 life. The Copy Enchantment token copies Swarm Intelligence. Before we resolve the Helix's imprint trigger we tap the Timepiece to mill two Acorn Harvests, then we imprint one of them and the Deconstruct.
We cast Allay with buyback (G and 5 life) targeting Copy Enchantment. Cowardice, 2 Psychic Battles and 3 Swarm Intelligences trigger. Put one of the Psychic Battles to the bottom of the stack, the other on top, just below the Cowardice. Horobi triggers as well, but we ignore it by resolving Cowardice first.
Resolve Cowardice, replay Copy Enchantment, tokens copy Dual Nature (4 DN). Resolve Psychic Battle to bounce Copy Enchantment again, replay it, tokens copy Psychic Battle (6 PB).
Resolve the first Swarm Intelligence, triggering Psychic Battles for a total of seven enchantment bounces. copy Dual Natures 6 times (2^8 DN) the last time copy Psychic Battle again (2^8+6 PB). Same procedure for second Swarm Intelligence (~2^2^8 DN/PB). For the third we change it up and copy Swarm Intelligence at the end (2^2^2^8 DN/SI). We also use that one to get an Opalescence token and spend on Psychic Battle trigger to bounce the original Opalescence. We can rely on Dual Nature to destroy the token and leave us with noncreature enchantments.
At the end we resolve the Psychic Battle trigger for the original Allay to redirect it to the Omniscience token, the resolve the Allay to put it back into our hand.
Now we spend the last of our mana and life to flash back Acorn Harvest. That triggers the Spellweaver Helix and we cast Deconstruct, getting about 2^2^2^8 Swarm Intelligence triggers. Each of those will trigger all our Psychic Battles which we use to target Su-Chi. About once per SwarmIntelligence we need to bounce the original to top up on tokens, but for the most part we destroy tokens with Horobi to get 4 mana. That mana is then spent on Allay to increase our Dual Nature count and ultimately get more Psychic Battles before resolving the next Swarm Intelligence trigger.
This is the usual layer structure. We get more than 2^^^^(2^2^2^8) copies of Swarm Intelligence. In the end keep some mana in the pool and resolve the last copy of Deconstruct on the Spellweaver Helix so we have GGG10 left over.
Exile the Perpetual Timepiece to put Black Lotus and Genesis Wave back into the library. Cycle the Rebuild to draw Genesis Wave. Cast Genesis Wave with X=6. We get 2^^^^(2^2^2^8) Swarm Intelligence copies.
X=6 is enough to retrieve all permanents we need for the combo (use Disciple of Tevesh Szat instead of the Minion). We already have the Allay in hand, the rest of the instants/sorceries are accessible by milling them. So after some setup Genesis Waves copies we can start retrieving Black Lotus for lots of red mana and do everything the deck wants to do.
We get roughly F_{w^3 + w12 + 2}(2^^^^(2^2^2^8)) Sentry Oaks before the first combat.
EDIT: corrected the layer count for Deconstruct
Some minor changes: We can have the original Copy Enchantment copy Psychic Battle whenever we need copies of Psychic Battles, so we get more than 2^2^523 Swarm Intelligences after the first Allay. I believe Deconstruct is actually four layers, so we get to more than 2^^^^(2^2^523) after Deconstruct.
EDIT: Getting back to the deck with sideboard - I would think that it should be possible to get 14 stages, given that the previous 13-stage deck still had red mana available. I haven't figured out a way yet though, as the obvious choice for the red mana stage would be Goblins, but we are using Goblins in the initial stages.
Other options for red mana stages: Contested Cliffs, with a way to recycle land, and Sea Snidd. Somewhat easier: Grotag Siege-Runner, and Sylvan Caryatid. In neither case have I figured out good transitions though; Spinal Villain might be good for the first if Sea Snidd wasn't blue.
Another possible 14-stage sequence:
2 Merfolk Sovereign
3 Aquatic Incursion
4 Tundra Kavu
5 Kavu Recluse
7 Goblin Clearcutter
8 Mad Auntie
10 Basal Thrull
11 Thrull Champion
Uses all of green, blue, and black. The main two challenges: 1. How do we do the megastage with red mana? Which sorcery do we use? 2. How to handle the lands so that the Kavu mana works out properly. But, it looks promising.
Of course that provides a way for lands to leave the battlefield besides Worldpurge. But without animation they can't be bounced cheaply, so lifegain lands + Walking Atlas should work as our method to recover the life used to cast Flash of Defiance.
This also provides some lands that can enter untapped and tap exactly once, so there should be no problem with the Kavus.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
- start with the original Kavu Recluse in play and one untapped, hasty token.
- tap the token to put landshaping ability on the stack.
- use Worldpurge to bounce the original (also getting rid of all green mana and other hasty tokens)
- resolve the landshaping stuff and get a green mana.
- play the Kavu and leave a Bloodbond March trigger on the stack.
- use the green mana to kill the Kavu and get a hasty token.
- resolve the Bloodbond March to get back into starting position.
We can actually go infinite with that since we can for example build up an arbitrary amount of Bloodbond March triggers.
If the Kavu produced the mana directly instead of using the landshaping stuff we would not be able to do this. We can't keep mana abilities on the stack and both hasty tokens and mana are removed by using Worldpurge.
There is another problem with the last deck I posted: Night Dealings can fetch Black Lotus at just the cost of black mana, and then the Black Lotus can produce red mana. So, it looks like we can't have both Night Dealings and Black Lotus, unless black mana is both incidental (i.e. can't fuel the combo by itself) and is more expensive than any mana that can fuel the combo by itself.
I think we can fix the deck by replacing Night Dealings with Angelheart Vial:
2 Psychic Battle
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Deep Reconnaissance
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Emerald
24 Wormfang Behemoth
26 Deconstruct
27 Swarm Intelligence
28 Worldpurge
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Acorn Harvest
33 Spellweaver Helix
34 Gerrard's Verdict
35 Island
36 Judge of Currents
37 Merfolk Sovereign
38 Aquatic Incursion
39 Natural Affinity
40 Goblin Gardener
41 Mad Auntie
42 Facevaulter
43 Basal Thrull
44 Thrull Champion
45 Godtoucher
46 Everglove Courier
47 Nectar Faerie
48 Ghosthelm Courier
50 Centaur Archer
51 Maze Glider
52 Possessed Centaur
53 Eastern Paladin
54 Frightshroud Courier
55 Dwarven Warriors
56 Possessed Barbarian
57 Minion of Tevesh Szat
58 Goblin Bushwhacker
59 Genesis Wave
60 Angelheart Vial
61 Justice
62 Repercussion
63 Keldon Megaliths
64 Telekinetic Bonds
65 Pain Magnification
66 Five-Alarm Fire
67 World at War
68 Winding Constrictor
69 Phelddagrif
70 Cultural Exchange
71 Channel
72 Black Lotus
Final damage: F_{w^3 + w13 + 11} (F_{w^3 + w13 + 10} (N))
EDIT: I guess it would be better to save Night Dealings by getting rid of Black Lotus. We can replace it with two Elvish Spirit Guides for the start, and get rid of Goblin Bushwhacker in favor of Reality Spasm.
2 Grip of Chaos
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Deep Reconnaissance
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Emerald
24 Wormfang Behemoth
26 Deconstruct
27 Precursor Golem
28 Worldpurge
29 Acorn Harvest
30 Acorn Harvest
31 Acorn Harvest
32 Acorn Harvest
33 Spellweaver Helix
34 Gerrard's Verdict
35 Island
36 Judge of Currents
37 Merfolk Sovereign
38 Aquatic Incursion
39 Natural Affinity
40 Goblin Gardener
41 Mad Auntie
42 Facevaulter
43 Basal Thrull
44 Thrull Champion
45 Godtoucher
46 Everglove Courier
47 Nectar Faerie
48 Ghosthelm Courier
50 Centaur Archer
51 Maze Glider
52 Possessed Centaur
53 Eastern Paladin
54 Frightshroud Courier
55 Dwarven Warriors
56 Possessed Barbarian
57 Minion of Tevesh Szat
58 Reality Spasm
59 Genesis Wave
60 Night Dealings
61 Justice
62 Repercussion
63 Spiteful Visions
64 Spiritual Focus
65 Pain Magnification
66 Five-Alarm Fire
67 World at War
68 Winding Constrictor
69 Phelddagrif
70 Cultural Exchange
71 Channel
72 Elvish Spirit Guide
73 Elvish Spirit Guide
Final damage: F_{w^3 + w13 + 12} (F_{w^3 + w13 + 11} (N))
We can save the last layer by finding another way to come up with red mana for Goblin Bushwhacker.
EDIT: Okay, here's another attempt at 14 stages: We will use Assault Formation + Ulvenwald Captive for a green mana stage, then use Guardian Zendikon + Island to create blue mana on top. We need to switch the hyperstage and megastage from green to red, and so we have the problem again of how we use a sorcery to gain red mana. I don't think Seismic Spike will work with this combo, as both Seismic Spike and Assault Formation will destroy our Island. So I will try to use Mana Geyser. We need to donate lands to the opponent, and Hunted Phantasm + Cultural Exchange seems like the most efficient way of doing so that we know of. Adding Swarm Intelligence seems to be at least as efficient as adding cards to allow us to have multiple tapped lands to donate.
So we have:
2 Grip of Chaos
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Bump in the Night
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Ruby
24 Wormfang Behemoth
25 Vile Redeemer
27 Hunted Phantasm
28 Cultural Exchange
29 Guardian Zendikon
30 Swarm Intelligence
31 Worldpurge
32 Flash of Defiance
33 Flash of Defiance
34 Flash of Defiance
35 Spellweaver Helix
36 Primeval Titan
37 Glimmerpost
38 Radiant Fountain
39 Judge of Currents
40 Merfolk Sovereign
41 Aquatic Incursion
42 Island
43 Ulvenwald Captive
44 Assault Formation
45 Goblin Clearcutter
46 Mad Auntie
47 Facevaulter
48 Basal Thrull
49 Thrull Champion
50 Godtoucher
51 Everglove Courier
53 Ghosthelm Courier
54 Possessed Aven
55 Centaur Archer
56 Maze Glider
57 Possessed Centaur
58 Eastern Paladin
59 Frightshroud Courier
60 Dwarven Warriors
61 Possessed Barbarian
62 Minion of Tevesh Szat
53 Reality Spasm
64 Spiteful Visions
65 Spiritual Focus
66 Pain Magnification
67 Justice
68 Repercussion
69 Five-Alarm Fire
70 World at War
71 Black Lotus
72 Channel
73 Deconstruct
74 Genesis Wave
75 Living Wish
Should get F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (N)), if it all works out correctly.
EDIT: Spiteful Visions shouldn't be there. On the other hand, I'm missing a Forest for Goblin Clearcutter to sacrifice. I'd like to use Dryad Arbor, since we can get lots of Dual Nature copies, and Dryad Arbor could replace Swarm Intelligence. But, I think we can put a Guardian Zendikon on Dryad Arbor and destroy it with Assault Formation, which would allow us to imprint it on Mimic Vat and get a hasted Dryad Arbor, getting us a spare green mana. So that's no goood. There are a few Forests that usually come in tapped; Stomping Ground is no good since we can afford to pay the 2 life to have it come in untapped, and again Assault Formation can get us a token of it. Sheltered Thicket can be brought back to our hand via Worldpurge and recycled. So that leaves Cinder Glade; we can replace the Island with say Volcanic Island to avoid having enough basic lands for the Cinder Glade to come in untapped.
So replace Spiteful Visions and Island with Cinder Glade and Volcanic Island.
EDIT: I guess we need to cast both Cultural Exchange and Mana Geyser in each megastage transition, so we need another Flash of Defiance. So remove Repercussion. Our damage goes down to F_{w^3 + w14 + 5}(...).
EDIT: We can add a layer back by replacing Reality Spasm with Herbal Poultice, which can lead into Genesis Wave for that extra layer. Back up to F_{w^3 + w14 + 6}(...).
EDIT: Bleh, we can't have Deconstruct in this deck, since it can generate green mana too easily. We can replace it with two Chancellor of the Tangles, removing Justice to make space. I'm sure there's a more efficient way to get started, but I don't know of a way yet.
EDIT: Hmm, we could start Black Lotus / Channel / Perpetual Timepiece / Tundra / Replenish to get Omniscience and some other enchantment (Opalescence maybe) onto the battlefield. This requires three new cards rather than five for the Genesis Wave start. But, Genesis Wave contributes to the layer sequence, so it is really four new cards, and it looks like we need at least one new card to draw enough cards for the combat phase to work properly. We could still come out ahead if we can do it with just one new card. But, Minds Aglow doesn't work, and Noggle Ransacker by itself doesn't seem to be enough - if we go Opalescence / Dual Nature / Noggle Ransacker, we get three more cards, and then we need Worldpurge to be able to replay Noggle Ransacker. So, no improvement yet.
EDIT: Okay, the following is much better: Start with Black Lotus / Channel / Perpetual Timepiece. Tap the Timepiece to mill a couple of cards (perhaps the lifegain lands), and then exile it to shuffle Black Lotus back into the library. Cycle Rebuild to redraw Black Lotus, and sacrifice the Black Lotus for more green mana. Cast Genesis Wave for however many we need. The downside is that the Perpetual Timepiece is now in exile, and we can't redraw it until the next Genesis Wave, which won't happen until the first combat phase. Still, there should be enough to get a bunch of Dual Natures, and we can create at least one hasted token to attack with I should think. So we can drop the two Chancellor of the Tangles, and reinstate Justice and Repercussion. Damage goes back up to F_{w^3 + w14 + 7}(...).
I checked whether this start could improve the 60-card deck, but in that case, since we need to have Deconstruct, we might as well use it.
EDIT: Hmm, I'm having trouble with the start for this latest deck. Five-Alarm Fire is tough to use, since not only does it deal 5 damage to us, we need to create five hasted creatures to get it charged. I'm looking for alternatives, but haven't found a really good one. Anthem of Rakdos could work, if we have two of them in play when each Anthem of Rakdos trigger gets resolved, so that we deal 4 damage to ourselves. But I haven't quite figured out how to make it work.
So, the deck is now:
2 Grip of Chaos
3 Cowardice
4 Horobi, Death's Wail
5 Bloodbond March
6 Cephalid Shrine
7 Mimic Vat
8 Omniscience
9 Vedalken Orrery
10 Mirror of Fate
11 March of the Machines
12 Perpetual Timepiece
13 Dual Nature
14 Copy Enchantment
15 Allay
16 Su-Chi
17 Farrelite Priest
18 Metallurgeon
19 Bump in the Night
20 Battle Cry
21 Rebuild
22 Spellweaver Volute
23 Mox Ruby
24 Wormfang Behemoth
25 Vile Redeemer
27 Hunted Phantasm
28 Cultural Exchange
29 Guardian Zendikon
30 Swarm Intelligence
31 Worldpurge
32 Flash of Defiance
33 Flash of Defiance
34 Flash of Defiance
35 Flash of Defiance
36 Spellweaver Helix
37 Primeval Titan
38 Glimmerpost
39 Radiant Fountain
40 Judge of Currents
41 Merfolk Sovereign
42 Aquatic Incursion
43 Volcanic Island
44 Ulvenwald Captive
45 Assault Formation
46 Cinder Glade
47 Goblin Clearcutter
48 Mad Auntie
49 Facevaulter
50 Basal Thrull
51 Thrull Champion
53 Everglove Courier
54 Nectar Faerie
55 Ghosthelm Courier
56 Possessed Aven
57 Centaur Archer
58 Maze Glider
59 Possessed Centaur
60 Eastern Paladin
61 Frightshroud Courier
62 Dwarven Warriors
63 Possessed Barbarian
64 Minion of Tevesh Szat
65 Herbal Poultice
66 Genesis Wave
67 Spiritual Focus
68 Pain Magnification
69 Justice
70 Repercussion
71 Anthem of Rakdos
72 World at War
73 Black Lotus
74 Channel
75 Living Wish
Iijil, what do you think of the latest deck? If it works, do you have any ideas for how to get started?
Five-Alarm Fire is probably impossible to use, since I can't find a way to force the opponent to gain life. Spiritual Focus would require them to have cards in hand to discard, but we can't force them to draw cards and the would run out anyway.
Anthem of Rakdos doesn't require damaging the opponent, so that would work. It is hard to use for the start since we need to be hellbent when the Anthem resolves, but need to have card in hands to discard when we resolve the Pain Magnification triggered by it.
Getting started seems hard. I'm thinking abound some permutations hoping to make use of Herbal Poultice, but we might require an extra card there.
I thought for a moment that Thieves' Auction could perhaps be used as a replacement for Cultural Exchange / Hunted Phantasm; we could cast it when we have an even number of nontoken permanents on the battlefield, so that the opponent would be forced to take the tapped land. Unfortunately, we could use it to gain life from lifegain lands. If there were a version that didn't exile the permanents first, that might work. Too bad Scrambleverse untaps the permanents.
EDIT: Hmm, Glorybringer seems like an ideal replacement for Five-Alarm Fire. I think we can get started with the following:
Opening hand
Black Lotus
Channel
Perpetual TImepiece
Rebuild
Genesis Wave
Worldpurge
Cultural Exchange
Play Black Lotus for green, Channel, Perpetual Timepiece (19 life). Tap the Timepiece to mill two cards (two instants/sorceries, not sure which ones yet), then exile it to shuffle Black Lotus into the library (17 life). Cycle Rebuild to draw Black Lotus (15 life), then play it for more green and cast Genesis Wave for 13 cards (2 life).
We reveal and put onto the battlefield:
Vedalken Orrery
Omniscience
Opalescence
Dual Nature
Copy Enchantment
Glorybringer
Repercussion
Justice
Pain Magnification
Hunted Phantasm
Spiritual Focus
Primeval Titan
March of the Machines
Resolve the ETB trigger for Primeval Titan, putting Radiant Fountain and Glimmerpost onto the battlefield tapped (5 life). Before letting any of the Dual Nature triggers resolve, cast Worldpurge. Bring Opalescence, Dual Nature, Copy Enchantment, Glorybringer, Spiritual Focus, and Omniscience back to our hand, along with Cultural Exchange. Shuffle the rest of the permanents into the deck. Resolve all the Dual Nature triggers; The Primeval Titan token triggers, bringing Radiant Fountain and Glimmerpost back onto the battlefield again (8 life). Have the Copy Enchantment token come in as a copy of Dual Nature. Repaly Opalescence. Replay Dual Nature, getting 3 more Dual Nature tokens for 6 total. Play Copy Enchantment, copying Dual Nature and getting 7 more token copies for 14 total. Play Glorybringer and Spiritual Focus, getting 16 copies of each. Cast Cultural Exchange, exchanging our Pain Magnfication token with one of the 10 Goblin tokens the opponent controls.
Start the combat phase, and attack with all 16 Glorybringers. All 16 of the Glorybringers trigger their damage ability. Resolve the first ability, and deal 4 damage to our Goblin token. This triggers the Repercussion and Justice tokens. Resolve the Justice ability first, dealing 4 damage to ourselves (4 life). This triggers Pain Magnification; we discard Omniscience. This triggers our 16 Spiritual Focuses, and we gain 32 life and draw 16 cards. I believe there should be no more problems from here; we can draw Mirror of Fate, and use it to put Perpetual Timepiece back in the library and we can draw it again. We can then use the Timepiece to shuffle Black Lotus and Genesis Wave back into our library, and redraw them. Not sure how best to use our 16 card draws, but certainly we will get a gazillion Dual Natures and Justices, so that when we resolve that Repercussion trigger we will get a lot of Justice triggers. With 15 more Glorybringer triggers to go, I believe this gets us to more than F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + 14 + 6} (15)) damage in the end.
EDIT: Hmm, I just noticed that Glorybringer only deals damage to an opponent's creature. I don't think this is a problem; Cultural Exchange is cheap enough so that in general, we can deal damage to an opponent creature, and then cast Cultural Exchange to exchange control of the creature so that we will be the ones to take damage. For the opening, we can just have the opponent take the damage from the first Repercussion, since he can take damage up to four times without dying. After that we will have tons of resources to be able to cast Cultural Exchange whenever we need to.
- Anthem of Rakdos doesn't trigger Repercussions at all.
- Five-Alarm Fire requires dealing damage to the opponent.
- Glorybringers all trigger simultaneously, so the Psychic Battles for all of them are gone by the time we resolve the first one. going through the combo betweern them then removes the targets via Worldpurge.
EDIT: I was thinking that something that deals damage to an attacking creature, like Arbalest Elite or Burning Oil, might work. But, we have creatures that can increase in toughness, so I think that would go infinite.
I think Ordeal of Purphoros would get that final layer, with the double triggered abilities. Alas, we can't have creature enchantments.
Lord of Shatterskull Pass I think would also get that extra layer, since the damage it deals is nontargeted. But can we get started with it? That looks exceptionally hard.
Firemane Avenger is perhaps easier to get started with, but we do need two more creatures to attack with.
swamp
Nicol bolas
Pox
The Rack x 1
Shallow grave
this was 1995~ standard
7 from Pox, 7 from Nicol Bolas coming in, and 3 more waiting for opponent's upkeep
@Iijil: Flameblast Dragon can also deal damage to ourselves, but it requires paying 3R to do so. I can't figure out how to get started with either Firemane Avenger or Flameblast Dragon with the extra requirements. If we just needed one hasted creature, we can probably get started using the original Herbal Poultice and Mimic Vault. But for Fireman Avenger we would need three Mimic Vaults, and for Flameblast Dragon we would need red mana somehow, and I don't know how to get it without Black Lotus.
Inferno Titan unfortunately also triggers when we enter the battlefield; Preyseizer Dragon can sacrifice creatures on ETB. Hasran Ogress isn't red, so it won''t trigger Justice.
Anthem of Rakdos might work, but I don't know how we would get a card in our hand between the resolving an Anthem of Rakdos and resolving a subsequent Pain Magnification.
Without being able to squeeze in a seventh layer or Finest Hour, the best that I can see how to do is to use Lord of Shatterkull Pass, and replace Repercussion with Noggle Ransacker. With Noggle Ransacker we can draw cards up to 52 times; it shouldn't be too hard to get close to that with an initial Genesis Wave, perhaps with Worldpurge and Allay remaining in our hand. We should then be able to draw Genesis Wave many times, generating something like F_{w^3 + w14 + 2}(N) with N somewhere between 30 and 50 I would think. Then the final damage would be F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 5} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 2} (N))), better than with Glorybringer.
EDIT: Perhaps we can do better, using the following:
Herbal Poultice
Genesis Wave
Angelheart Vial or Farsight Mask
Justice
Karplusan Minotaur
Impulsive Maneuvers or Skyclaw Thrash
Finest Hour
World at War
I would like to have used Repercussion, but that runs into the same problem of losing targeted creatures. Still, this looks like it just beats the previous ending with Lord of Shatterskull Pass. I haven't worked out the start, but it shouldn't be too hard to get going since we just need one hasted token. Final damage should be F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (N)).
EDIT: Hmm, I had forgotten that Herbal Poultice and Mimic Vat require 6 mana to activate. Angelheart Vial is also bad, as it requires 2 mana to activate and we have to take 4 damage. It would be better to go with Farsight Mask and draw Hunted Phantasm and Cultural Exchange as well. Still, I don't have quite enough life to get going.
So, the best thing seems to be to switch Finest Hour with Noggle Ransacker, which should have no trouble getting going. This puts us at about the same damage as the Lord of Shatterskull Pass version, but this version seems a little more convenient.
EDIT: Wait, can we replace Hunted Phantasm, Cultural Exchange, and the fourth Acorn Harvest with Sky Swallower? We can play Sky Swallower soon after Worldpurge, right after we use Primeval Titan go fetch our lifegain lands. So the opponent would get Primeval Titan, the tapped lifegain lands, Sky Swallower, and the tokens of Vedalken Orrery and Omniscience[/c]. Only losing the Vedalken Orrery and Omniscience tokens are bad. To deal with those, I would think we can stack multiple Omniscience and/or Vedalken Orrery Dual Nature triggers on the stack prior to flashbacking Acorn Harvest. So the stack will have something like
Omniscience trigger
...
Omniscience trigger
Vedalken Orrery trigger
...
Vedalken Orrery trigger
Omniscience trigger
...
Omniscience trigger
so after Worldpurge, we can get some Omniscience tokens and a Vedalken Orrery token, then cast Primeval Titan and Sky Swallower. Then, we resolve more triggers until we get another Vedlaken Orrery token and Omniscience token.
To give lots of Pain Magnification tokens to the opponent, we will need to cast more stuff, like Vile Redeemer, Horobi, Death's Wail, Su-Chi, and a few enchantments to generate lots of Dual Natures, and then Pain Magnification. But, I don't see the problem with the opponent getting any of those.
So, if this works, we can go with the Lord of Shatterskull Pass ending along with Noggle Ransacker, and then add Repercussion and Finest Hour, getting the final damage up to F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 2} (N))), where N is maybe somewhere between 30 and 50.
EDIT: Hmmm, it looks like Lord of Shatterskull Pass won't work with Sky Swallower. We needed Cultural Exchange to bring the opponent's creatures back under our control, so that Repercussion would deal damage to us rather than the opponent.
The best I can think of is to use Five-Alarm Fire, and add something that allows the opponent to gain life. I suppose Tamanoa will work, and we can target the opponent with a Five-Alarm Fire to trigger donated Tamanoas. We have to replace Finest Hour, so we are reduced to F_{w^3 + w14 + 7} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 6} (F_{w^3 + w14 + 2} (N))) damage.
In each combat we deal the minimum amount of damage to make use of the Five-Alarm Fires. So we only need to keep one Ransacker discard available for after the first combat so we can gain as much life as needed for the World at Wars we cast at the same time. That decreases N by 1, but that's better than losing Finest Hour
EDIT: I was thinking about implementing a proper layer for the opponents life by using an alternative for World at War that gives us as many combats as we can make use of (limited by opponents life). But a cooperative opponent can gain life via donated merfolks. so that goes infinite.
On the plus side I noticed that we can just donate Judge of Currents copies and tap the opponents merfolk via regeneration from Herbal Poultice, so any worries about them not having life are moot.
EDIT2: Oops, Judge of Current is still a may. So No opponent life layer because of cooperation infinite, but we need the Ransacker + Spiritual Focus stuff to force them to gain life.