It's like if an apple grower said "oh, are you guys all wanting to buy a thousand apples but you're too late because it costs too much now? Here, here's a thousand apples that I'll sell you for five dollars each." Now the supermarket is no longer what it once was, the very essence of how it works from the investors perspective is turned upside down - because people actually thought that they were investing in apples (HAHAHA!!), nothing means anything anymore. In Magic, from the collector's perspective, people with Modern Masters cards have those five dollar shares. But it works out for everybody because in this case, the Modern Masters fans didn't actually want valuable shares, they really just wanted to be able to pretend that they have one thousand apples, and now they technically do.
The very fact that people think they are investing in a commodity is what I find hilarious. You are buying a game and booster packs contain game pieces. They are made by a game company who also makes a Sponge Bob Square Pants Operation game for children and Baby Alive. It's a bonus when you buy something that can later be sold to recoup your purchase, but that's such a unique thing in the world that I feel like we forget that.
Wizards prints currency but it's insane to think that they owe us anything outside of the gaming experience.
It's like if Apple said "oh, are you guys all wanting to buy a thousand shares of Apple stock but you're too late because it costs too much now? Here, here's a thousand shares that I'll sell you for five dollars each." Now the stock market is no longer what it once was, the very essence of how it works from the investors perspective is turned upside down, nothing means anything anymore. In Magic, from the collector's perspective, people with Modern Masters cards have those five dollar shares. But it works out for everybody because in this case, the Modern Masters fans didn't actually want valuable shares, they really just wanted to be able to pretend that they have one thousand Apple shares, and now they technically do.
Uh, I am starting to see the problem. If Apple sells you a thousand shares for five dollars each, those would be exactly as "real" and "legitimate" in every meaningful way as any other shares. It would be a generous gift from Apple. It wouldn't be fake.
I think you may not have an accurate understanding of what "real" means. "Real" doesn't mean "original".
Edit: Also, I think you have a serious misunderstanding of one of the main purposes of editions like Modern Masters. They are, in part, targeted very specifically at collectors. It is literally the opposite of saying "collectibility doesn't matter". It is saying "We know this is collectible! Here, have a special edition so you have more different things you can collect."
There are collectors who believe that "within the context of the Magic: The Gathering collectible card game which traditionally consisted of core sets and expansions," both the Zendikar print and the Modern Masters print are necessary in order to have a complete real collection. What is your authority to say they are not "true" collectors?
I have clarified many times that when I say "set" I am speaking within the context of the Magic: The Gathering collectible card game which traditionally consisted of core sets and expansions, the former of which would provide a sort of universal core to the game, and the latter of which would expand the game. Of course Modern Masters is a "set" from a technical standpoint. I can't believe so many readers have been taking my assertions on this literal technical level even when I am sure you know very well what I am saying.
Go ahead and call them candy rainbows for all the good it does you. What is or is not a Magic set (expansion or otherwise) is defined by Wizard of the Coast. Period, end of discussion.
any supplemental products or collections of reprints that come out alongside those four sets do not belong to the heart and soul of the game from a true collector's perspective
It's like if Apple said "oh, are you guys all wanting to buy a thousand shares of Apple stock but you're too late because it costs too much now? Here, here's a thousand shares that I'll sell you for five dollars each." Now the stock market is no longer what it once was, the very essence of how it works from the investors perspective is turned upside down, nothing means anything anymore.
Many (most? all?) publicly traded companies across the world (I'm 99% certain including Apple) does this for their sufficiently high-ranked employees, and the stock market has not crashed (as a result of employees getting employee stock options). There are other means by which one can potentially purchase shares in a company at a value under the current market price, as well. You have selected a woefully bad example for whatever it is you were trying to illustrate.
So, my definition for "set" comes from the long precedent set by Wizards of the Coast in the development and expansion of MTG, having a new expansion block each year which expands the game with original printings of new cards.
No. You are wrong. There is no such precedent from WotC regarding what may or may not constitute a "set". Chronicles (1995) and Anthologies (1998) are both classified as "reprint sets". In fact, all of the duel decks, masters editions, from the vaults, box sets, and commander products are in a section labeled "other sets".
It isn't even true that only the expansion sets increase the available card pools. Legacy and Vintage see their card pools increase from non-expansion sets, such as commander products, all the time.
The only "precedent" that seems to constitute a set, is a common expansion symbol. (Exceptions to that rule include sets without an expansion symbol, such as Revised.)
In recent years there were several sets that had many very popular cards, so as the demand for them became greater than the amount readily available in circulation...
This isn't a recent phenomenon. For the entire lifetime of Magic, the demand for certain cards has exceeded "the amount readily available in circulation", because the early cards were both powerful and had low print runs.
...Wizards decided to completely abandon the collectible side of the game...
Hypothetically speaking, the decision to "completely abandon the collectible side of the game" was made when the reprint policy was changedin 2002. Although Modern Masters is a relatively new reprint set, the current version of the reprint policy is 13 years old. (Yes, there have been some minor changes since then, but nothing that would constitute an entirely new reprint policy.)
Except there is proof everywhere that WotC hasn't abandoned the collectible side of the game. Promos are a great example. WotC makes promos because they're highly collectible. The purpose of promos isn't to increase supply in the market; it's to create something with collectible value.
Additionally, the change in the reprint policy was the result of WotC realizing that the secondary market dynamics were complex. If you don't want to read the article, I'll point out a few highlights:
The Reprint Policy was devised and announced in the wake of a fairly big mistake: Chronicles. In Chronicles and Fourth Edition, Wizards of the Coast reprinted quite a few cards from the first few Magic expansions that had fairly high prices in the secondary card market. The original versions of cards like the Elder Dragon Legends, Carrion Ants, Killer Bees, Mishra's Factory, Erhnam Djinn, and others plummeted in value when these cards were reprinted.
...Wizards learned from this mistake and the Reprint Policy was developed and announced so that everyone would know what Wizards’ intentions were with respect to reprints...
...The whole policy was based on the assumption that out of print cards go up in value over time. This logic works just fine for cards like the Moxes -- their prices would clearly drop dramatically if they were suddenly included in, say, 8th Edition, and thus the Reprint Policy makes sense.
However, we saw a really interesting phenomenon recently when we brought back some old iconic cards. When Serra Angel was reprinted in 7th Edition, the price of older versions of Serra actually went up, not down. If you think about it, that makes sense. Sure, the supply of Serras has gone up, but the demand has gone up even more. Suddenly she’s tournament legal again and even players who don’t care about tournaments are getting their hands on her and then learning that an older version exists with different art. Some people prefer the older art, some people just think it’s cooler to play with older cards, etc...
...In general, there now exists a class of cards whose value might go up if they were reprinted.
Whether you agree with Randy Buehler or not, it's clear that WotC recognized that the secondary market dynamics aren't as simple as an increase in supply leads to a decrease in value. They had seen that an increase in supply actually increased the collectible value of the earlier printings. This relates to Modern Masters, because it suggests that Modern Masters reprints can actually increase the collectible value of the original printings. Seen through this lens, WotC hasn't abandoned the collectible side of the game. Rather, they've enhanced it.
...and just print more of those cards with a fake expansion symbol on them.
For a person who doesn't like to be taken literally, you have an extremely literal definition of the phrase "expansion symbol". You are correct. Not every set with an expansion symbol, is actually an expansion. But just because something isn't an expansion, doesn't mean that it's not a set, or that the expansion symbol is "fake".
In the long run the price difference between cards from Zendikar and their Modern Masters counterparts very well might look like the Legends/Chronicles price difference.
There have been a bunch of people in this thread who have acknowledged that players have their own individual preferences. Some people like original printings. Some people like foils. Some people like promos.
That doesn't prove that reprints aren't real.
That doesn't prove that reprints aren't collectible.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I have clarified many times that when I say "set" I am speaking within the context of the Magic: The Gathering collectible card game which traditionally consisted of core sets and expansions, the former of which would provide a sort of universal core to the game, and the latter of which would expand the game. Of course Modern Masters is a "set" from a technical standpoint. I can't believe so many readers have been taking my assertions on this literal technical level even when I am sure you know very well what I am saying.
Go ahead and call them candy rainbows for all the good it does you. What is or is not a Magic set (expansion or otherwise) is defined by Wizard of the Coast. Period, end of discussion.
any supplemental products or collections of reprints that come out alongside those four sets do not belong to the heart and soul of the game from a true collector's perspective
It's like if Apple said "oh, are you guys all wanting to buy a thousand shares of Apple stock but you're too late because it costs too much now? Here, here's a thousand shares that I'll sell you for five dollars each." Now the stock market is no longer what it once was, the very essence of how it works from the investors perspective is turned upside down, nothing means anything anymore.
Many (most? all?) publicly traded companies across the world (I'm 99% certain including Apple) does this for their sufficiently high-ranked employees, and the stock market has not crashed (as a result of employees getting employee stock options). There are other means by which one can potentially purchase shares in a company at a value under the current market price, as well. You have selected a woefully bad example for whatever it is you were trying to illustrate.
In my example, the five dollar shares are fake shares. They're not real Apple shares. People can't resell them to people who want Apple shares at market value. Well, they can, but only to people who believe that those shares are legitimate Apple shares. The example is consistent with the Modern Masters situation.
I think the OP seems to only be a player of Standard-legal expansion sets and their related core sets. He is stubbornly refusing to admit that there are a myriad of ways to play Magic. He is pretty much ignoring that people like to draft, which is why Wizards made sets tailored to drafting, such as Conspiracy and Modern Masters. He refuses to admit that Modern is a very popular format that will continue to get needed reprint support from Wizards. He must hate casual fun formats, so he just believes that Commander doesn't exist. Magic is fun because it can be played in many different formats, there is more than just freaking Standard out there.
In my example, the five dollar shares are fake shares. They're not real Apple shares. People can't resell them to people who want Apple shares at market value. Well, they can, but only to people who believe that those shares are legitimate Apple shares. The example is consistent with the Modern Masters situation.
This is still a dreadful analogy. MtG, in its CORE, is meant to be played. These aren't baseball cards or whatnot that are literally there to build a collection. These cards were designed to be a game first and foremost. To be able to fund formats that rely on cards no longer in print, they have to occasionally up the amount of those cards in circulation so that the game can be successful. After all, for the majority of the fanbase, this is a game meant to be played, both for fun and competitively. If they make the game too hard to get into, then it would suffer, and people would choose not to play certain formats because the cards aren't there.
The prices for the cards are, for very early cards, set because of how limited they are, but for anything past 8th Edition, it isn't about rarity at all, but rather how much the card gets played. If the card is being played, the card goes up in price. If it's completely unplayed, it will go down in price. This will be the case for all Magic cards to come until the game is put out to pasture, at which point, most cards that aren't seeing play in eternal formats will instantly become WORTHLESS until a large and sufficient amount of time has passed to make the game considered a "novelty of the past", at which point they will rise in price again. Not only that, but for a collector, you really don't get how set symbols will work once this time comes about. Since the cards aren't seeing print or play, certain cards will rise in price in accordance to how old they are, and a card from Modern Masters vs the original set it was in will likely be lower. Your arguments are terrible from a financial aspect, given that WotC is making money off of this being a game rather than a collector's item, and it's terrible off of a collector's standpoint as well since you simply don't seem to get how aging works with cards, and how the newer cards from MM will be worth less to people since it will be easier for them to be in mint condition. That is, if the packaging didn't already damage them beyond any value to future collectors.
As a side note, your book analogy from an earlier post actually terribly contradicts your point. The cards aren't changing, all that's happened is that they have an extended print time. Just like with these books though, extremely early printings of the cards, which is indicated by the set symbol, will be worth more.
I think the OP seems to only be a player of Standard-legal expansion sets and their related core sets. He is stubbornly refusing to admit that there are a myriad of ways to play Magic. He is pretty much ignoring that people like to draft, which is why Wizards made sets tailored to drafting, such as Conspiracy and Modern Masters. He refuses to admit that Modern is a very popular format that will continue to get needed reprint support from Wizards. He must hate casual fun formats, so he just believes that Commander doesn't exist. Magic is fun because it can be played in many different formats, there is more than just freaking Standard out there.
Actually I consider vintage, or whatever it's called, to be the purest form of the game. Any cards can be played with, simple as that. Draft is fun too because of the sealed aspect of it, but the game rules are the same, it's the same game. Things like Commander are indeed not actually the Magic card game, but a different game played with the same game pieces.
I think the OP seems to only be a player of Standard-legal expansion sets and their related core sets. He is stubbornly refusing to admit that there are a myriad of ways to play Magic. He is pretty much ignoring that people like to draft, which is why Wizards made sets tailored to drafting, such as Conspiracy and Modern Masters. He refuses to admit that Modern is a very popular format that will continue to get needed reprint support from Wizards. He must hate casual fun formats, so he just believes that Commander doesn't exist. Magic is fun because it can be played in many different formats, there is more than just freaking Standard out there.
Actually I consider vintage, or whatever it's called, to be the purest form of the game. Any cards can be played with, simple as that. Draft is fun too because of the sealed aspect of it, but the game rules are the same, it's the same game. Things like Commander are indeed not actually the Magic card game, but a different game played with the same game pieces.
By this Logic Alpha Rules should actually be the "purest" format because that was the way the rules worked back in 1993 when the game began.
Either way you are entitled to your opinion. As MaRo would say the great thing about Magic is that everyone sees it their own way. I went into my FLGS today and I was so uninspired by any packs on the wall because I really wanted to buy some more Modern Masters 2015. I came home and drafted it on Magic Online (which I'd love to hear your opinions on come to think of it) to quench my thirst. How I see Magic is different from how you see Magic which is different from how anyone else sees Magic. Not worth arguing about really.
No it doesn't have to be about "Now." It just has to be cards that I've opened from packs myself that belong to the original, core Magic: The Gathering game. Core sets and expansions. And beyond 9th Edition even the core sets don't feel totally authentic to me, as they took on black borders and began reprinting cards like Phage, which did not belong in core sets. But the core set is over now, and that makes sense.
When I first began my current collection last year, I started with boxes like Legions, Scourge and Planeshift, and then moved onto the more current stuff.
Anyways, you say that not every product has to be collectible. I agree. I wasn't saying they shouldn't have printed Modern Masters. I was just saying that those cards are reprints with an expansion symbol on them that doesn't belong to any set from the Magic: The Gathering game, so you're made very aware all the time that you're holding a reprint-for-the-sake-of-easy-accessibiliy card in your hand, rather than one that came from a set that Wizards printed to continue the lineage of the game.
Okay. So, as the core sets beyond 9th Edition have already shown, there are plenty of sets that don't feel authentic to you.
You're not wrong for feeling that way, because Modern Masters Cards were reprinted specifically for the the sake of easy accessibility, so you're not wrong. Just like how Planechase/Archenemy/Conspiracy/Commander/Duel Decks cards are printed for the purpose of play and not for (by your definition of) collection.
At the end of a day, if a card from Modern Masters feels like a reprint-for-the-sake-of-easy-accessibility card (Which it is) and not an "authentic" card that came from a set that Wizards printed to continue the lineage of the game, you can simply not collect it (which, well, is what you're doing).
I see you got the general idea behind the purpose of supplementary products correct, so I'm moving on to what I think is the cause of the heated discussions many of us are having here. I'm going to be slightly more blunt about this topic to get the point across: The way you phrased and defined your collection.
"Real/Authentic" aren't the best words to define cards you deem ideal for your collection, because the usage of the word implies cards that don't fit the ideal mold are "fake" (the opposite), which gives rise to quite the impression you feel that the cards don't deserve to exist. You probably didn't mean that, but that doesn't stop the natural impact the words themselves would give away.
I can't fault you for the choice of words, there probably isn't another word as short to describe the same feeling and you probably went for the shortest option. In fact, when you described the same feeling in the quote above in terms of "reprints-for-the-sake-of-easy-accessibility" and "printed to continue the lineage of the game", you were publishing the same feelings in a different term, but one less piercing while getting the point across.
It's not helping that your "restrictions" for your collection is not one majority of the forums has the same for, so the usage of the term "Authentic" would also immediately create the impression you think people who collect or play cards you didn't feel were "real" were playing with "false" cards. Like I said, you didn't mean that, but the usage of the word would resonate its opposite meaning when applied from the other point of view.
On top of that, in the first post, you stated "If Wizards wanted to do this properly" - that gives the others the impression you think that Wizards caters every product to the your definition of a "real" collection, which as I mentioned above, people already don't agree with. Well, from the post quoted, I can see that you understand that not all products cater to your collection.
Your point of view is not wrong, but you need to recognize that your point of view is certainly in a minority here (this thread itself proves it) and therefore you need to be a lot more precise in your wording - to be expressing your opinion that resounds the message of "Cards from Modern Masters are false cards and I do not feel that they are real Magic cards" is definitely going to get a lot of people running against your point of view, even if your original point of view would have been a largely neutral one.
Besides, most collectors would set a restriction on their collections (otherwise we'll be collecting everything), the a game constantly producing main and supplementary products (as well as promos), there are bound to be cards that don't meet our criteria and therefore don't feel "worth collecting". To word these cards as "not authentic/real" would get people who either have the card under their definition of collectible or playable (and a lot of players deem everything printed legally as playable, mind you) is going to get people up against your point of view.
I am picking on your choice of words and being very blunt about it because I can see your "actual" point of view when it comes to your collection and products (Modern Masters) that don't fall under it and that its mainly you choice of wording that's attracting a lot of opposing views.
Just take from the quote above the sentence "doesn't belong to any set from the Magic: the Gathering game". The word "game" is too broad - you have a specific definition of it that's defined by your collection, but to others, the MTG game consists of everything they can use. By their definition, Modern Masters definitely is a set that belongs to the game - their definition of "game".
It seems the original poster has forgotten the very fundamentals of this concept. And everyone else as well. You all seem to forget WotC is a business that runs it as they see fit. An alpha black lotus is worth nothing more then it's demand. You can say it's $35,000 cars guess what. There might only be one person in the world willing to pay it. WotC does not care about the secondary market or investors. They care about players and collectors. You are not a part of the equation OP. Sorry to sound so harsh but for someone that is an executive at a multi billion dollar corporation. I don't see how WotC is focused on appeasing your definition of a set rather then the 20 million people actually using this penny cardboard with pictures.
I think the OP seems to only be a player of Standard-legal expansion sets and their related core sets. He is stubbornly refusing to admit that there are a myriad of ways to play Magic. He is pretty much ignoring that people like to draft, which is why Wizards made sets tailored to drafting, such as Conspiracy and Modern Masters. He refuses to admit that Modern is a very popular format that will continue to get needed reprint support from Wizards. He must hate casual fun formats, so he just believes that Commander doesn't exist. Magic is fun because it can be played in many different formats, there is more than just freaking Standard out there.
Actually I consider vintage, or whatever it's called, to be the purest form of the game. Any cards can be played with, simple as that. Draft is fun too because of the sealed aspect of it, but the game rules are the same, it's the same game. Things like Commander are indeed not actually the Magic card game, but a different game played with the same game pieces.
Vintage is one of the few formats that allows Supplement-only cards, like Commander and Conspiracy cards. It's the purest form of the game, but allows what you define as "fake" cards?
When I first began my current collection last year, I started with boxes like Legions, Scourge and Planeshift, and then moved onto the more current stuff.
I am curious when you first started playing. Is it also a year ago?
I get the same feeling of a card I opened or drafted is more mine and earned than a card I buy. At the same time I also realize that this is an emotional thing and completely illogical and irrational.
It is OK to have the feelings and emotions. You just need to be more understanding how they are completely irrational. Also if my hunch that you are still rather new, then a lot of these feelings will fade away.
As far as just buying and busting open boxes. I hope you are drafting these sets rather than just opening them? You are losing out on a lot of interesting game play and cheating yourself if you are not drafting them.
That's what the Reserved List is for. They stopped doing that, what, 15, almost 16 years ago? (The Reserved List still stands, but they're not adding cards to it.)
What bugs me about Modern Masters is why Sylvan Bounty has been reprinted in both Modern Masters sets. It's arguably the worst of the basic land cycling cards, because its mode is just lifegain (which only Johnnies will care about for Kavu Predator or Sanguine Bond), and green has Lay of the Land, Sylvan Scrying, and Rampant Growth as strictly-betters.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
In my example, the five dollar shares are fake shares. They're not real Apple shares. People can't resell them to people who want Apple shares at market value. Well, they can, but only to people who believe that those shares are legitimate Apple shares. The example is consistent with the Modern Masters situation.
Then your analogy is wrong.
Stock shares are primarily defined by their function. If Apple sells you a share of stock, and grants it all the dividend, voting, etc. privileges of the "original" shares, then that share is functionally equivalent to the old ones. And, in fact, people will happily trade them for the old shares. If they are almost identical, they will sell at a very slight discount, but will be almost the same - you can see this, in fact, with a company like Google that recently issued "non-voting" shares; they have every property of the old shares except for one. They sell at a couple of percent discount relative to the "original", voting shares. They are completely legitimate shares. Why? For a single, simple reason: the two authorities - Google and the stock exchange regulators - have agreed to recognize them.
If, hypothetically, you walk up to the stock exchange and scribble out "This is an Apple share" on a napkin, and both Apple and the stock exchange regulators declare "this is a fully functional share of Apple", guess what? You now have a full share of Apple. Because the authority that gets to decide that has said so, and it fulfills all the functions needed.
Modern Masters cards are functionally equivalent to the "original" printings of the cards. The most significant function, of course, is being legal to play in sanctioned M:tG tournaments. There is a single slight difference with the original cards - the expansion symbol is different, plus some visual differences.
In my example, the five dollar shares are fake shares. They're not real Apple shares. People can't resell them to people who want Apple shares at market value. Well, they can, but only to people who believe that those shares are legitimate Apple shares. The example is consistent with the Modern Masters situation.
Then your analogy is wrong.
Stock shares are primarily defined by their function. If Apple sells you a share of stock, and grants it all the dividend, voting, etc. privileges of the "original" shares, then that share is functionally equivalent to the old ones. And, in fact, people will happily trade them for the old shares. If they are almost identical, they will sell at a very slight discount, but will be almost the same - you can see this, in fact, with a company like Google that recently issued "non-voting" shares; they have every property of the old shares except for one. They sell at a couple of percent discount relative to the "original", voting shares. They are completely legitimate shares. Why? For a single, simple reason: the two authorities - Google and the stock exchange regulators - have agreed to recognize them.
If, hypothetically, you walk up to the stock exchange and scribble out "This is an Apple share" on a napkin, and both Apple and the stock exchange regulators declare "this is a fully functional share of Apple", guess what? You now have a full share of Apple. Because the authority that gets to decide that has said so, and it fulfills all the functions needed.
Modern Masters cards are functionally equivalent to the "original" printings of the cards. The most significant function, of course, is being legal to play in sanctioned M:tG tournaments. There is a single slight difference with the original cards - the expansion symbol is different, plus some visual differences.
quoted for truth. As a loan trade support analyst, buying and selling will be at slight discounts (par plus 1/8th or 99 and 7/8ths) but in the end, the base price is equal across the boards.
And yes to functionally equivalent. Everyone will have different opinions as to why they reprint (price, quantity, increase players, new art, draft, wizard to make more $, etc)
When I first began my current collection last year, I started with boxes like Legions, Scourge and Planeshift, and then moved onto the more current stuff.
I am curious when you first started playing. Is it also a year ago?
I get the same feeling of a card I opened or drafted is more mine and earned than a card I buy. At the same time I also realize that this is an emotional thing and completely illogical and irrational.
It is OK to have the feelings and emotions. You just need to be more understanding how they are completely irrational. Also if my hunch that you are still rather new, then a lot of these feelings will fade away.
As far as just buying and busting open boxes. I hope you are drafting these sets rather than just opening them? You are losing out on a lot of interesting game play and cheating yourself if you are not drafting them.
I began playing during the Onslaught cycle, learning with 7th Edition theme decks. Got a few handfuls of Onslaught, Legions and Scourge booster packs back in the day... then sort of lost interest during Mirrodin and Kamigawa and didn't warm very quickly to the new card look in 8th Edition. I got back into the game with Ravnica, which I got four boxes and a tournament box of. Never got any Guildpact though.. faded out again. Then a couple years later I got a box of 10th Edition when it came out, as well as a few random packs of other sets. Around 2010 I began collecting old sets out of nostalgia, purchasing on eBay complete sets of Onslaught, Legions, Scourge, 7th Edition, etc. I hung on to a number of these complete sets for a few years while in college, and have now been selling them off since they are not sets that I compiled myself via boosters. The exceptions are 6th and 7th Editions, which I will keep forever even though I didn't obtain them via boosters.
Anyways, then last year I decided I wanted to collect some of the old cards that I have nostalgic attachments to via booster boxes, which I never was able to do back in the day. The first whole booster box I ever got was the 10th edition one I think. So I got a box of Legions, Scourge, Planeshift, Nemesis, Prophecy, Odyssey, Judgment and 8th Edition. I opened all of those and just sorted them and put them in binders. Then I decided I wanted to have a decent amount of cards from each set as time goes on, as I realized how stupid it was not to be buying/collecting 4 - 6 boxes of sets such as Zendikar and Worldwake as they were being released. So within the last few months I decided I can budget to get 6 boxes of large sets and 4 boxes of small sets going forward, which I have done for the Khans block, and for the Theros block I got 3/2/2 boxes, and for Return to Ravnica 2/2/1. Going forward every two-block set will be 6/4 for the large/small sets just like the amounts I was able to get for Khans.
I do not draft the ones I get for my collection. And in case anyone is wondering, if I could go back in time I wouldn't purchase the old boxes, as that money could have bought many more newer boxes, and obviously I lost a lot of value in opening them like that, but it was just something I had to do I guess, seeing as those were the sets that were around when I was 12 years old and new to the game, and I was never able to get boxes of them back then.
I also ended up purchasing a box of Zendikar on eBay a few weeks ago, as I wanted my collection to have some Zendikar, and obviously obtaining the cards through packs is the only option for me. I haven't opened that box yet.
In addition to the boxes I open solely for long-term collecting, my wife and I buy intro packs to play with, and we also play with the cards from the boosters that come in those, but we are obviously very casual about it.
In any case, as time goes on and my collection grows, this is all stuff that I pulled myself, it is all legitimately, traditionally collected via cracking packs. For example, I still have one more box of Fate to open, and I've already gotten three Ugins from the first three boxes. I wouldn't have just gone out and bought three Ugins, but now I have them because I was lucky enough to crack them. In one of my two Return to Ravnica boxes I got a foil Temple Garden, and in one of my two Gatecrash boxes I got a foil Breeding Pool. So the assortment of really valuable cards that I have is completely random and sporadic, but they are the cards that I was lucky enough to pull from the boxes that I could afford to buy.
Sorry if this was a little too detailed, but I figured you might find my history with Magic interesting given the context of this discussion.
At no point in my history with the game did I ever perceive any supplemental product or reprint set to be part of the game in the same way that the core progression of expansion sets was.
And by the way, I've only ever done one draft in my life, and I absolutely loved it. Unfortunately I work evenings, so I'm trying to find a group to put together to do drafts on weekday mornings.
I am curious as to how you feel about set redemption.
I collect complete sets through redemption which I assemble by drafting online.
I crack virtual packs while drafting but end up with real cards.
Would this satisfy you from a collectors point of view.
I am curious as to how you feel about set redemption.
I collect complete sets through redemption which I assemble by drafting online.
I crack virtual packs while drafting but end up with real cards.
Would this satisfy you from a collectors point of view.
Well, you assemble the set via a process of cracking packs, be it virtual, but more importantly you receive 'brand new' cards comprising a set. If I just wanted to collect complete sets of each set as they come out, I would probably buy redemption boxes on eBay. I was really glad to be able to obtain MTGO redemption boxes of 7th Edition a few years ago, since building a complete set via booster boxes would have cost at least $1,000.
What I would be curious about is how those redemption boxes are put together. If machines compile them and pack them in the same way they might pack booster packs, and human hands never touched them, then it would feel all the more legitimate to me, as you're actually getting the cards brand new.
Obviously I've opted to build my collection via opening physical packs, even if I don't quite get complete sets sometimes (I missed two mythics from Khans), because I enjoy having a collection that I cracked myself the traditional way. But I actually briefly contemplated just going with redemption sets from eBay, before I determined in what manner I would go about building my collection.
I collect legends. I have at least one copy of every legend or legendary card in MtG, and I go with the original version for each. For the planeswalkers, any version will do. If there are alternate arts, I take the one I like best.
But then I have a Liliana collection, and my darling has a Jace collection. So I have a copy of every card where Liliana is pictured, so for her planeswalker cards, I have all options for a given card, rather than just one. I also like the Vendilion Clique, so I want to get a foil version of *every* printing of theirs, regardless of art. I'm still waiting on getting my MMA version. I've got Morningtide, the judge foil, and my MM2 is in the mail. So it's just whatever I happen to like for any given thing I'm collecting. That's the way I want my collection to be. I would never dream of saying that a version from a different set was not "real" or was a "sanctioned proxy".
If you're ok with Beta being a set of reprints for the sake of reprints, then you should be ok with Modern Masters 2.
The same way the basic sets were designed to be accessible for new players, Modern Masters is supposed to allow people who want to get into Modern a one-stop way to get some of the formats staples to make decks with.
This is a strange topic. I often would rather have the original card, but since I don't have a case against reprints, due to Beta(and then Unlimited, etc.) existing, if the card is functionally identical to an earlier printing, it is no less of a card than its newest reprint.
If you're ok with Beta being a set of reprints for the sake of reprints, then you should be ok with Modern Masters 2.
The same way the basic sets were designed to be accessible for new players, Modern Masters is supposed to allow people who want to get into Modern a one-stop way to get some of the formats staples to make decks with.
This is a strange topic. I often would rather have the original card, but since I don't have a case against reprints, due to Beta(and then Unlimited, etc.) existing, if the card is functionally identical to an earlier printing, it is no less of a card than its newest reprint.
But Beta and Unlimited were subsequent editions of a Core Set, and they were each a set in themselves. Modern Masters doesn't fit in the main lineup of Mtg sets and is merely reprints in a manner quite different than Beta or Unlimited, which were more like "Core Set 2, Core Set 3" etc. Modern Masters takes favorites from the past several years and reprints them arbitrarily.
From what I can tell, this whole post seems to be the OP saying "I've decided I don't need to collect Modern Masters in order to have a complete collection", and then wondering if anyone else feels this way.
Here's the thing: It's your collection. You get to decide when it's complete. If you've decided that all-reprint sets like Modern Masters aren't necessary to complete your collection, all power to you. If you also decide you don't need cards like True-Name Nemesis (Commander) and Marchesa, the Black Rose (Conspiracy) to complete your collection as well (which it seems you have decided, from your comments on not being interested in Commander or Conspiracy cards), all power to you. There is no rule saying you have to collect anything specific in order to complete a collection.
As for the "does anyone else feel this way" part, it appears very few if any posters here feels the same way as you do. Sometimes people think differently than others do. That's fine too. You might need to qualify what exactly your collection consists of, though. "Here is my complete collection of cards directly from sets that passed through Standard" is more accurate, and again, totally legitimate.
As for using terms like "fake" or "proxy" to describe Modern Masters cards, this is obviously incorrect. Those cards are legal, sanctioned cards, with real value (even if it's a 5c value for some common). You've since gone on to clarify what you meant, but remember you're talking about a game that use words precisely. Calling a card "fake" is along the same lines as talking about Siege Rhino's ETB ability "activating" when it enters the battlefield: people are going to call you on it. I would suggest that you take a lesson from this: in the future, say exactly what you mean, because people may take your words literally (especially on the internet, where we can't rely on any non-verbal cues to understand your intent).
Have fun completing your collection! I finished off my Star Trek: CCG 1E (Decipher) collection a while back, and the feelings of accomplishment and joy at looking through my binders was totally worth all the money and effort. Good luck!
I kind of get where the OP is coming from. I've always liked getting the original printing, somehow it just feels more authentic. Plus I've noticed the cards from the supplemental products are of a poorer quality than regular expansions. The commander cards form the first one were very flimsy. 2013 was okay, but this last one seemed poor too. Something about them was just different.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
everything its a reprint, if you have M11 lightning bolts they are Alpha reprints so ... anyway i dont like mm2 reprints very bad quality in general vs original versions
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
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The very fact that people think they are investing in a commodity is what I find hilarious. You are buying a game and booster packs contain game pieces. They are made by a game company who also makes a Sponge Bob Square Pants Operation game for children and Baby Alive. It's a bonus when you buy something that can later be sold to recoup your purchase, but that's such a unique thing in the world that I feel like we forget that.
Wizards prints currency but it's insane to think that they owe us anything outside of the gaming experience.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I think you may not have an accurate understanding of what "real" means. "Real" doesn't mean "original".
Edit: Also, I think you have a serious misunderstanding of one of the main purposes of editions like Modern Masters. They are, in part, targeted very specifically at collectors. It is literally the opposite of saying "collectibility doesn't matter". It is saying "We know this is collectible! Here, have a special edition so you have more different things you can collect."
There are collectors who believe that "within the context of the Magic: The Gathering collectible card game which traditionally consisted of core sets and expansions," both the Zendikar print and the Modern Masters print are necessary in order to have a complete real collection. What is your authority to say they are not "true" collectors?
And no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
Many (most? all?) publicly traded companies across the world (I'm 99% certain including Apple) does this for their sufficiently high-ranked employees, and the stock market has not crashed (as a result of employees getting employee stock options). There are other means by which one can potentially purchase shares in a company at a value under the current market price, as well. You have selected a woefully bad example for whatever it is you were trying to illustrate.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
No. You are wrong. There is no such precedent from WotC regarding what may or may not constitute a "set". Chronicles (1995) and Anthologies (1998) are both classified as "reprint sets". In fact, all of the duel decks, masters editions, from the vaults, box sets, and commander products are in a section labeled "other sets".
It isn't even true that only the expansion sets increase the available card pools. Legacy and Vintage see their card pools increase from non-expansion sets, such as commander products, all the time.
The only "precedent" that seems to constitute a set, is a common expansion symbol. (Exceptions to that rule include sets without an expansion symbol, such as Revised.)
This isn't a recent phenomenon. For the entire lifetime of Magic, the demand for certain cards has exceeded "the amount readily available in circulation", because the early cards were both powerful and had low print runs.
Hypothetically speaking, the decision to "completely abandon the collectible side of the game" was made when the reprint policy was changed in 2002. Although Modern Masters is a relatively new reprint set, the current version of the reprint policy is 13 years old. (Yes, there have been some minor changes since then, but nothing that would constitute an entirely new reprint policy.)
Except there is proof everywhere that WotC hasn't abandoned the collectible side of the game. Promos are a great example. WotC makes promos because they're highly collectible. The purpose of promos isn't to increase supply in the market; it's to create something with collectible value.
Additionally, the change in the reprint policy was the result of WotC realizing that the secondary market dynamics were complex. If you don't want to read the article, I'll point out a few highlights:
Whether you agree with Randy Buehler or not, it's clear that WotC recognized that the secondary market dynamics aren't as simple as an increase in supply leads to a decrease in value. They had seen that an increase in supply actually increased the collectible value of the earlier printings. This relates to Modern Masters, because it suggests that Modern Masters reprints can actually increase the collectible value of the original printings. Seen through this lens, WotC hasn't abandoned the collectible side of the game. Rather, they've enhanced it.
For a person who doesn't like to be taken literally, you have an extremely literal definition of the phrase "expansion symbol". You are correct. Not every set with an expansion symbol, is actually an expansion. But just because something isn't an expansion, doesn't mean that it's not a set, or that the expansion symbol is "fake".
There have been a bunch of people in this thread who have acknowledged that players have their own individual preferences. Some people like original printings. Some people like foils. Some people like promos.
That doesn't prove that reprints aren't real.
That doesn't prove that reprints aren't collectible.
That doesn't even prove that reprints are inherently less collectible than their original version counterparts (The Brainstorm from Mercadian Masques is much more iconic than the original Ice Age printing).
The only thing it proves is that the market can distinguish between different versions of functionally identical cards.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
In my example, the five dollar shares are fake shares. They're not real Apple shares. People can't resell them to people who want Apple shares at market value. Well, they can, but only to people who believe that those shares are legitimate Apple shares. The example is consistent with the Modern Masters situation.
This is still a dreadful analogy. MtG, in its CORE, is meant to be played. These aren't baseball cards or whatnot that are literally there to build a collection. These cards were designed to be a game first and foremost. To be able to fund formats that rely on cards no longer in print, they have to occasionally up the amount of those cards in circulation so that the game can be successful. After all, for the majority of the fanbase, this is a game meant to be played, both for fun and competitively. If they make the game too hard to get into, then it would suffer, and people would choose not to play certain formats because the cards aren't there.
The prices for the cards are, for very early cards, set because of how limited they are, but for anything past 8th Edition, it isn't about rarity at all, but rather how much the card gets played. If the card is being played, the card goes up in price. If it's completely unplayed, it will go down in price. This will be the case for all Magic cards to come until the game is put out to pasture, at which point, most cards that aren't seeing play in eternal formats will instantly become WORTHLESS until a large and sufficient amount of time has passed to make the game considered a "novelty of the past", at which point they will rise in price again. Not only that, but for a collector, you really don't get how set symbols will work once this time comes about. Since the cards aren't seeing print or play, certain cards will rise in price in accordance to how old they are, and a card from Modern Masters vs the original set it was in will likely be lower. Your arguments are terrible from a financial aspect, given that WotC is making money off of this being a game rather than a collector's item, and it's terrible off of a collector's standpoint as well since you simply don't seem to get how aging works with cards, and how the newer cards from MM will be worth less to people since it will be easier for them to be in mint condition. That is, if the packaging didn't already damage them beyond any value to future collectors.
As a side note, your book analogy from an earlier post actually terribly contradicts your point. The cards aren't changing, all that's happened is that they have an extended print time. Just like with these books though, extremely early printings of the cards, which is indicated by the set symbol, will be worth more.
Actually I consider vintage, or whatever it's called, to be the purest form of the game. Any cards can be played with, simple as that. Draft is fun too because of the sealed aspect of it, but the game rules are the same, it's the same game. Things like Commander are indeed not actually the Magic card game, but a different game played with the same game pieces.
By this Logic Alpha Rules should actually be the "purest" format because that was the way the rules worked back in 1993 when the game began.
Either way you are entitled to your opinion. As MaRo would say the great thing about Magic is that everyone sees it their own way. I went into my FLGS today and I was so uninspired by any packs on the wall because I really wanted to buy some more Modern Masters 2015. I came home and drafted it on Magic Online (which I'd love to hear your opinions on come to think of it) to quench my thirst. How I see Magic is different from how you see Magic which is different from how anyone else sees Magic. Not worth arguing about really.
Okay. So, as the core sets beyond 9th Edition have already shown, there are plenty of sets that don't feel authentic to you.
You're not wrong for feeling that way, because Modern Masters Cards were reprinted specifically for the the sake of easy accessibility, so you're not wrong. Just like how Planechase/Archenemy/Conspiracy/Commander/Duel Decks cards are printed for the purpose of play and not for (by your definition of) collection.
At the end of a day, if a card from Modern Masters feels like a reprint-for-the-sake-of-easy-accessibility card (Which it is) and not an "authentic" card that came from a set that Wizards printed to continue the lineage of the game, you can simply not collect it (which, well, is what you're doing).
I see you got the general idea behind the purpose of supplementary products correct, so I'm moving on to what I think is the cause of the heated discussions many of us are having here. I'm going to be slightly more blunt about this topic to get the point across: The way you phrased and defined your collection.
"Real/Authentic" aren't the best words to define cards you deem ideal for your collection, because the usage of the word implies cards that don't fit the ideal mold are "fake" (the opposite), which gives rise to quite the impression you feel that the cards don't deserve to exist. You probably didn't mean that, but that doesn't stop the natural impact the words themselves would give away.
I can't fault you for the choice of words, there probably isn't another word as short to describe the same feeling and you probably went for the shortest option. In fact, when you described the same feeling in the quote above in terms of "reprints-for-the-sake-of-easy-accessibility" and "printed to continue the lineage of the game", you were publishing the same feelings in a different term, but one less piercing while getting the point across.
It's not helping that your "restrictions" for your collection is not one majority of the forums has the same for, so the usage of the term "Authentic" would also immediately create the impression you think people who collect or play cards you didn't feel were "real" were playing with "false" cards. Like I said, you didn't mean that, but the usage of the word would resonate its opposite meaning when applied from the other point of view.
On top of that, in the first post, you stated "If Wizards wanted to do this properly" - that gives the others the impression you think that Wizards caters every product to the your definition of a "real" collection, which as I mentioned above, people already don't agree with. Well, from the post quoted, I can see that you understand that not all products cater to your collection.
Your point of view is not wrong, but you need to recognize that your point of view is certainly in a minority here (this thread itself proves it) and therefore you need to be a lot more precise in your wording - to be expressing your opinion that resounds the message of "Cards from Modern Masters are false cards and I do not feel that they are real Magic cards" is definitely going to get a lot of people running against your point of view, even if your original point of view would have been a largely neutral one.
Besides, most collectors would set a restriction on their collections (otherwise we'll be collecting everything), the a game constantly producing main and supplementary products (as well as promos), there are bound to be cards that don't meet our criteria and therefore don't feel "worth collecting". To word these cards as "not authentic/real" would get people who either have the card under their definition of collectible or playable (and a lot of players deem everything printed legally as playable, mind you) is going to get people up against your point of view.
I am picking on your choice of words and being very blunt about it because I can see your "actual" point of view when it comes to your collection and products (Modern Masters) that don't fall under it and that its mainly you choice of wording that's attracting a lot of opposing views.
Just take from the quote above the sentence "doesn't belong to any set from the Magic: the Gathering game". The word "game" is too broad - you have a specific definition of it that's defined by your collection, but to others, the MTG game consists of everything they can use. By their definition, Modern Masters definitely is a set that belongs to the game - their definition of "game".
Vintage is one of the few formats that allows Supplement-only cards, like Commander and Conspiracy cards. It's the purest form of the game, but allows what you define as "fake" cards?
I am curious when you first started playing. Is it also a year ago?
I get the same feeling of a card I opened or drafted is more mine and earned than a card I buy. At the same time I also realize that this is an emotional thing and completely illogical and irrational.
It is OK to have the feelings and emotions. You just need to be more understanding how they are completely irrational. Also if my hunch that you are still rather new, then a lot of these feelings will fade away.
As far as just buying and busting open boxes. I hope you are drafting these sets rather than just opening them? You are losing out on a lot of interesting game play and cheating yourself if you are not drafting them.
What bugs me about Modern Masters is why Sylvan Bounty has been reprinted in both Modern Masters sets. It's arguably the worst of the basic land cycling cards, because its mode is just lifegain (which only Johnnies will care about for Kavu Predator or Sanguine Bond), and green has Lay of the Land, Sylvan Scrying, and Rampant Growth as strictly-betters.
On phasing:
Stock shares are primarily defined by their function. If Apple sells you a share of stock, and grants it all the dividend, voting, etc. privileges of the "original" shares, then that share is functionally equivalent to the old ones. And, in fact, people will happily trade them for the old shares. If they are almost identical, they will sell at a very slight discount, but will be almost the same - you can see this, in fact, with a company like Google that recently issued "non-voting" shares; they have every property of the old shares except for one. They sell at a couple of percent discount relative to the "original", voting shares. They are completely legitimate shares. Why? For a single, simple reason: the two authorities - Google and the stock exchange regulators - have agreed to recognize them.
If, hypothetically, you walk up to the stock exchange and scribble out "This is an Apple share" on a napkin, and both Apple and the stock exchange regulators declare "this is a fully functional share of Apple", guess what? You now have a full share of Apple. Because the authority that gets to decide that has said so, and it fulfills all the functions needed.
Modern Masters cards are functionally equivalent to the "original" printings of the cards. The most significant function, of course, is being legal to play in sanctioned M:tG tournaments. There is a single slight difference with the original cards - the expansion symbol is different, plus some visual differences.
quoted for truth. As a loan trade support analyst, buying and selling will be at slight discounts (par plus 1/8th or 99 and 7/8ths) but in the end, the base price is equal across the boards.
And yes to functionally equivalent. Everyone will have different opinions as to why they reprint (price, quantity, increase players, new art, draft, wizard to make more $, etc)
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I began playing during the Onslaught cycle, learning with 7th Edition theme decks. Got a few handfuls of Onslaught, Legions and Scourge booster packs back in the day... then sort of lost interest during Mirrodin and Kamigawa and didn't warm very quickly to the new card look in 8th Edition. I got back into the game with Ravnica, which I got four boxes and a tournament box of. Never got any Guildpact though.. faded out again. Then a couple years later I got a box of 10th Edition when it came out, as well as a few random packs of other sets. Around 2010 I began collecting old sets out of nostalgia, purchasing on eBay complete sets of Onslaught, Legions, Scourge, 7th Edition, etc. I hung on to a number of these complete sets for a few years while in college, and have now been selling them off since they are not sets that I compiled myself via boosters. The exceptions are 6th and 7th Editions, which I will keep forever even though I didn't obtain them via boosters.
Anyways, then last year I decided I wanted to collect some of the old cards that I have nostalgic attachments to via booster boxes, which I never was able to do back in the day. The first whole booster box I ever got was the 10th edition one I think. So I got a box of Legions, Scourge, Planeshift, Nemesis, Prophecy, Odyssey, Judgment and 8th Edition. I opened all of those and just sorted them and put them in binders. Then I decided I wanted to have a decent amount of cards from each set as time goes on, as I realized how stupid it was not to be buying/collecting 4 - 6 boxes of sets such as Zendikar and Worldwake as they were being released. So within the last few months I decided I can budget to get 6 boxes of large sets and 4 boxes of small sets going forward, which I have done for the Khans block, and for the Theros block I got 3/2/2 boxes, and for Return to Ravnica 2/2/1. Going forward every two-block set will be 6/4 for the large/small sets just like the amounts I was able to get for Khans.
I do not draft the ones I get for my collection. And in case anyone is wondering, if I could go back in time I wouldn't purchase the old boxes, as that money could have bought many more newer boxes, and obviously I lost a lot of value in opening them like that, but it was just something I had to do I guess, seeing as those were the sets that were around when I was 12 years old and new to the game, and I was never able to get boxes of them back then.
I also ended up purchasing a box of Zendikar on eBay a few weeks ago, as I wanted my collection to have some Zendikar, and obviously obtaining the cards through packs is the only option for me. I haven't opened that box yet.
In addition to the boxes I open solely for long-term collecting, my wife and I buy intro packs to play with, and we also play with the cards from the boosters that come in those, but we are obviously very casual about it.
In any case, as time goes on and my collection grows, this is all stuff that I pulled myself, it is all legitimately, traditionally collected via cracking packs. For example, I still have one more box of Fate to open, and I've already gotten three Ugins from the first three boxes. I wouldn't have just gone out and bought three Ugins, but now I have them because I was lucky enough to crack them. In one of my two Return to Ravnica boxes I got a foil Temple Garden, and in one of my two Gatecrash boxes I got a foil Breeding Pool. So the assortment of really valuable cards that I have is completely random and sporadic, but they are the cards that I was lucky enough to pull from the boxes that I could afford to buy.
Sorry if this was a little too detailed, but I figured you might find my history with Magic interesting given the context of this discussion.
At no point in my history with the game did I ever perceive any supplemental product or reprint set to be part of the game in the same way that the core progression of expansion sets was.
And by the way, I've only ever done one draft in my life, and I absolutely loved it. Unfortunately I work evenings, so I'm trying to find a group to put together to do drafts on weekday mornings.
I collect complete sets through redemption which I assemble by drafting online.
I crack virtual packs while drafting but end up with real cards.
Would this satisfy you from a collectors point of view.
Well, you assemble the set via a process of cracking packs, be it virtual, but more importantly you receive 'brand new' cards comprising a set. If I just wanted to collect complete sets of each set as they come out, I would probably buy redemption boxes on eBay. I was really glad to be able to obtain MTGO redemption boxes of 7th Edition a few years ago, since building a complete set via booster boxes would have cost at least $1,000.
What I would be curious about is how those redemption boxes are put together. If machines compile them and pack them in the same way they might pack booster packs, and human hands never touched them, then it would feel all the more legitimate to me, as you're actually getting the cards brand new.
Obviously I've opted to build my collection via opening physical packs, even if I don't quite get complete sets sometimes (I missed two mythics from Khans), because I enjoy having a collection that I cracked myself the traditional way. But I actually briefly contemplated just going with redemption sets from eBay, before I determined in what manner I would go about building my collection.
But then I have a Liliana collection, and my darling has a Jace collection. So I have a copy of every card where Liliana is pictured, so for her planeswalker cards, I have all options for a given card, rather than just one. I also like the Vendilion Clique, so I want to get a foil version of *every* printing of theirs, regardless of art. I'm still waiting on getting my MMA version. I've got Morningtide, the judge foil, and my MM2 is in the mail. So it's just whatever I happen to like for any given thing I'm collecting. That's the way I want my collection to be. I would never dream of saying that a version from a different set was not "real" or was a "sanctioned proxy".
The same way the basic sets were designed to be accessible for new players, Modern Masters is supposed to allow people who want to get into Modern a one-stop way to get some of the formats staples to make decks with.
This is a strange topic. I often would rather have the original card, but since I don't have a case against reprints, due to Beta(and then Unlimited, etc.) existing, if the card is functionally identical to an earlier printing, it is no less of a card than its newest reprint.
But Beta and Unlimited were subsequent editions of a Core Set, and they were each a set in themselves. Modern Masters doesn't fit in the main lineup of Mtg sets and is merely reprints in a manner quite different than Beta or Unlimited, which were more like "Core Set 2, Core Set 3" etc. Modern Masters takes favorites from the past several years and reprints them arbitrarily.
Here's the thing: It's your collection. You get to decide when it's complete. If you've decided that all-reprint sets like Modern Masters aren't necessary to complete your collection, all power to you. If you also decide you don't need cards like True-Name Nemesis (Commander) and Marchesa, the Black Rose (Conspiracy) to complete your collection as well (which it seems you have decided, from your comments on not being interested in Commander or Conspiracy cards), all power to you. There is no rule saying you have to collect anything specific in order to complete a collection.
As for the "does anyone else feel this way" part, it appears very few if any posters here feels the same way as you do. Sometimes people think differently than others do. That's fine too. You might need to qualify what exactly your collection consists of, though. "Here is my complete collection of cards directly from sets that passed through Standard" is more accurate, and again, totally legitimate.
As for using terms like "fake" or "proxy" to describe Modern Masters cards, this is obviously incorrect. Those cards are legal, sanctioned cards, with real value (even if it's a 5c value for some common). You've since gone on to clarify what you meant, but remember you're talking about a game that use words precisely. Calling a card "fake" is along the same lines as talking about Siege Rhino's ETB ability "activating" when it enters the battlefield: people are going to call you on it. I would suggest that you take a lesson from this: in the future, say exactly what you mean, because people may take your words literally (especially on the internet, where we can't rely on any non-verbal cues to understand your intent).
Have fun completing your collection! I finished off my Star Trek: CCG 1E (Decipher) collection a while back, and the feelings of accomplishment and joy at looking through my binders was totally worth all the money and effort. Good luck!
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Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper