I'd secretly swap out the goyf I opened with another random rare from MM I'll have on me. I know it's unethical but nobody will know except for me and it was a possibility that the pack I opened could have originally been this way. This way I get value for my packs I opened plus I get to continue playing in the GP.
Ah yes, cheating at a GP. Wonderful idea.
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Hi I'm Infecter4life and ironically I only play GBx decks.
I will drop even if it doesn't contain a Goyf. Perhaps even a combination of Fulminator Mage, Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom, etc. I live a half an hour away from the Utrecht GP and I'm really horrible at limited. I'm there for the side events, playmats and magic fun.
You open the packs yourself, how is anyone going to know? Lol. I've been to many sealed PTQ's and GP's and judges aren't looking over your shoulder.
I'll admit I did this before with s foil Jace the mind sculptor. I am not proud of it. But the point is no you want get caught if you're not obvious. But it is a question of ethics. If I open a foil tarm I will drop rather then cheat again. Well it's not cheating. More along the lines of stealing. It's your card if you drop but not yours if you don't. I know it's really tempting and I have an issue with the urge to do this. I just ask my friends to hold me accountable. It's the only way to overcome it. The urge to chest and get value is strong. I've never cheated in gameplay. But stealing is worse then cheating in gameplay and I still feel guilty years later. This was at a PTQ btw.
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That's what I find embarrassing with sets like MM. Goyf is a mediocre limited card (it's basically a 0/1 or 1/2 for 2 early game, and doesn't progress that much after), but the cash appeal and mythic rarity completely warp the limited experience. Taking limited into account, Tarmogoyf at mythic doesn't make any sense, but we all know limited playability wasn't the primary concern of creating sets like MM. I really like it better when they make filler sets like Conspiracy.
You paid $75 for the registration fee and get your playmat/promo/packs. You crack them, knowing full well you have to ship the pool after logging the pulls, and see a Tarmogoyf. Do you drop from the event?
Open the pack, pick goyf, pass the objectively better cards and keep playing? If you are not confident in your abillity to top, just take the money card. Dropping from the event doesnt make sense unless you open a pack which contains both a goyf + FOIL goyf and you do not want to get the pack passed at all.
Take it. Drop.
Side events are more fun anyways. When you do them right when they start, it's mostly scrubs who X-2'd out playing you so it's even easier to win.
Going to the GP is a sunken cost, so the value of the pool you would take home has to be compared only with the expected value of a random pool + the prizes you win: easily higher.
Personally, I plan to play on Saturday and visit Utrecht on Sunday; if I make day 2 it's an extra benefit, and if I drop early day 1 I gain more tourist time.
You paid $75 for the registration fee and get your playmat/promo/packs. You crack them, knowing full well you have to ship the pool after logging the pulls, and see a Tarmogoyf. Do you drop from the event?
I can see both sides. You are "cash-flow positive" so to speak, so dropping is the smartest move. On the other hand, maybe you didn't take days off work and fly in for the weekend just to play in side-events. Is there anybody who wouldn't take the Tarmogoyf? Do you weigh your own skill and odds of making day two as part of the decision?
Unless you actually live withing walking distance of the event, it costs much more than $75 to attend.
That $75 will be dwarfed by the price of your hotel room and it might even be less than parking+gas.
I'd consider it if I opened a foil Tarmogoyf. Anything less and I'd certainly not drop (assuming it's a GP). I only get to go to those things 1-2 times a year, and I dropping to secure myself $150 seems like negative value overall (by a lot).
At a local event without a ton of prizes, on the other hand, yeah, I guess I'd probably drop.
At the first MM GP I dropped after opening a foil Goyf. The pool also contained a Cryptic Command, Electrolyze and 2 Path to Exile. This was before they upped the prize structures for GPs though and I would have had to make Top 16 to equal that value.
Only a Foil Goyf would tempt me to drop this time as well.
I'd probably drop if I opened a nonfoil goyf at GP Vegas main event as I don't think I'm nearly good enough at limited to make day 2/the money I get is from the monetary value of the cards I keep. I would love to day 2 a GP but passing up guaranteed value like that is iffy to me when I can just play side events, go to vendors, talk with artists, gamble, or any number of things because it's Vegas.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Similar question- Youre drafting and its P1P1 between Comet Storm (lets say thats the best card in the pack) and a foil 'goyf. At what level would you consider picking the Comet Storm over the foil Tarmagoyf? If its the Top 8 of a GP then you'd get more money by placing higher with a comet storm deck then value-picking the goyf but what about other levels? Or what if the choice was in pack 3 where you were passed a foil goyf and some serviceable but non-bomb common like Brute Force?
Related question: You're in day 2 of the GP, but with the worst qualifying record (so no shot at top 8). You open goyf, foil goyf P1P1. Do you drop?
On day 2 in normal Grand Prix events, I thought the judges opened the packs ahead of time, stamped them, and replaced the foils with non-foil versions. Annorax should be right in this case.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Related question: You're in day 2 of the GP, but with the worst qualifying record (so no shot at top 8). You open goyf, foil goyf P1P1. Do you drop?
On day 2 in normal Grand Prix events, I thought the judges opened the packs ahead of time, stamped them, and replaced the foils with non-foil versions. Annorax should be right in this case.
This is correct, I've traded for a few stamped cards over the years. I've never played a Limited GP, so I have never actually had a stamped deck or anything like that.
That said, one Goyf is only about 2 entry fees, so if I'm out any travel expenses at all, I'm passing the pool. GP San Antonio was almost literally in my backyard & I had no expenses to speak of from that, so I dropped from a last chance sealed trial to keep a foil Flooded Strand + 2 Sorins pool.
A foil Goyf, multiple Goyfs, Goyf + foil Cryptic/Hierarch/Bob etc, I'm out of there with that & queueing up for side events.
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Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
Similar question- Youre drafting and its P1P1 between Comet Storm (lets say thats the best card in the pack) and a foil 'goyf. At what level would you consider picking the Comet Storm over the foil Tarmagoyf? If its the Top 8 of a GP then you'd get more money by placing higher with a comet storm deck then value-picking the goyf but what about other levels? Or what if the choice was in pack 3 where you were passed a foil goyf and some serviceable but non-bomb common like Brute Force?
There is no level at which I would pick a Comet Storm over a Foil Tarmogoyf. One card just does not make sufficient impact to overcome a guaranteed $400 in EV, even in a GP top 8; there is a high probability that you will never draw it or that it won't change the outcome of the match when drawn. Possibly somewhere in world championships or at the top 8 of a pro tour or something, but there aren't any events open to the public that I could actually end up in where I would ever pass on a foil goyf.
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Sorry to sound stupid, but if you open it, why can't you keep it? Isn't that the point of sealed, you keep your pool?
At competitive REL sealed you open a pool, record what you opened and then pass it along to another player. Part of why they do that is to prevent people from cheating by bringing in whatever busted rare is in that set and then claim they opened it. Ideally, you can achieve that same result by having judges or tournament organizers open all the pools and then passing them out, but you're not going to have several dozen people open and record hundreds to thousands of pools.
Sorry to sound stupid, but if you open it, why can't you keep it? Isn't that the point of sealed, you keep your pool?
At competitive REL sealed you open a pool, record what you opened and then pass it along to another player. Part of why they do that is to prevent people from cheating by bringing in whatever busted rare is in that set and then claim they opened it. Ideally, you can achieve that same result by having judges or tournament organizers open all the pools and then passing them out, but you're not going to have several dozen people open and record hundreds to thousands of pools.
So if I understand this correctly, I could open a great pool (foil Goyfs aside) with just lots of strong commons and uncommons and maybe a cool rare or two of no major value but the deck has solid synergy and some nice sideboard cards, but would ultimately be stuck with some other person's pool that could be complete and utter garbage?
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Sorry to sound stupid, but if you open it, why can't you keep it? Isn't that the point of sealed, you keep your pool?
At any point you can drop with the cards in front of you.
The reason this is a matter of discussion is that at GPs, there is a window when you have cards in front of you that are not destined to stay with you (because you register a pool that will be given to someone else so as to reduce the opportunity for cheating). At a prerelease or other Regular REL event, you're not going to be put in the position to weigh keeping a money rare or continue playing in the event. Modern Masters sealed specifically makes this a larger issue than most sets, but I've seen people drop with pools like Elspeth, Brimaz, Foil Brimaz back in Born of the Gods limited.
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Sorry to sound stupid, but if you open it, why can't you keep it? Isn't that the point of sealed, you keep your pool?
At competitive REL sealed you open a pool, record what you opened and then pass it along to another player. Part of why they do that is to prevent people from cheating by bringing in whatever busted rare is in that set and then claim they opened it. Ideally, you can achieve that same result by having judges or tournament organizers open all the pools and then passing them out, but you're not going to have several dozen people open and record hundreds to thousands of pools.
So if I understand this correctly, I could open a great pool (foil Goyfs aside) with just lots of strong commons and uncommons and maybe a cool rare or two of no major value but the deck has solid synergy and some nice sideboard cards, but would ultimately be stuck with some other person's pool that could be complete and utter garbage?
Yes, but of course the flipside is that you could be passed a great pool instead of the mediocre pool you opened. It's all luck.
The main idea behind pool swapping is to prevent people from just slipping in a bunch of good limited cards into their sealed pool.
Sorry to sound stupid, but if you open it, why can't you keep it? Isn't that the point of sealed, you keep your pool?
At competitive REL sealed you open a pool, record what you opened and then pass it along to another player. Part of why they do that is to prevent people from cheating by bringing in whatever busted rare is in that set and then claim they opened it. Ideally, you can achieve that same result by having judges or tournament organizers open all the pools and then passing them out, but you're not going to have several dozen people open and record hundreds to thousands of pools.
So if I understand this correctly, I could open a great pool (foil Goyfs aside) with just lots of strong commons and uncommons and maybe a cool rare or two of no major value but the deck has solid synergy and some nice sideboard cards, but would ultimately be stuck with some other person's pool that could be complete and utter garbage?
The short answer is "yes", but the best way to think of it is that you are glimpsing someone else's pool as you register it and then receive your real pool.
Someone will always get a pool that looks nuts. I can tell you from experience that it only hurts to think of the pool you register as your own.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Sorry to sound stupid, but if you open it, why can't you keep it? Isn't that the point of sealed, you keep your pool?
At competitive REL sealed you open a pool, record what you opened and then pass it along to another player. Part of why they do that is to prevent people from cheating by bringing in whatever busted rare is in that set and then claim they opened it. Ideally, you can achieve that same result by having judges or tournament organizers open all the pools and then passing them out, but you're not going to have several dozen people open and record hundreds to thousands of pools.
So if I understand this correctly, I could open a great pool (foil Goyfs aside) with just lots of strong commons and uncommons and maybe a cool rare or two of no major value but the deck has solid synergy and some nice sideboard cards, but would ultimately be stuck with some other person's pool that could be complete and utter garbage?
Yes, but of course the flipside is that you could be passed a great pool instead of the mediocre pool you opened. It's all luck.
The main idea behind pool swapping is to prevent people from just slipping in a bunch of good limited cards into their sealed pool.
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Sorry to sound stupid, but if you open it, why can't you keep it? Isn't that the point of sealed, you keep your pool?
At competitive REL sealed you open a pool, record what you opened and then pass it along to another player. Part of why they do that is to prevent people from cheating by bringing in whatever busted rare is in that set and then claim they opened it. Ideally, you can achieve that same result by having judges or tournament organizers open all the pools and then passing them out, but you're not going to have several dozen people open and record hundreds to thousands of pools.
So if I understand this correctly, I could open a great pool (foil Goyfs aside) with just lots of strong commons and uncommons and maybe a cool rare or two of no major value but the deck has solid synergy and some nice sideboard cards, but would ultimately be stuck with some other person's pool that could be complete and utter garbage?
Basically although I don't look at it that way. Also you could be the guy who opens and registers a garbage pool and gets to build and play and keep the pool with the good cards in it.
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Ah yes, cheating at a GP. Wonderful idea.
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I'll admit I did this before with s foil Jace the mind sculptor. I am not proud of it. But the point is no you want get caught if you're not obvious. But it is a question of ethics. If I open a foil tarm I will drop rather then cheat again. Well it's not cheating. More along the lines of stealing. It's your card if you drop but not yours if you don't. I know it's really tempting and I have an issue with the urge to do this. I just ask my friends to hold me accountable. It's the only way to overcome it. The urge to chest and get value is strong. I've never cheated in gameplay. But stealing is worse then cheating in gameplay and I still feel guilty years later. This was at a PTQ btw.
Open the pack, pick goyf, pass the objectively better cards and keep playing? If you are not confident in your abillity to top, just take the money card. Dropping from the event doesnt make sense unless you open a pack which contains both a goyf + FOIL goyf and you do not want to get the pack passed at all.
Side events are more fun anyways. When you do them right when they start, it's mostly scrubs who X-2'd out playing you so it's even easier to win.
Personally, I plan to play on Saturday and visit Utrecht on Sunday; if I make day 2 it's an extra benefit, and if I drop early day 1 I gain more tourist time.
Unless you actually live withing walking distance of the event, it costs much more than $75 to attend.
That $75 will be dwarfed by the price of your hotel room and it might even be less than parking+gas.
At a local event without a ton of prizes, on the other hand, yeah, I guess I'd probably drop.
Only a Foil Goyf would tempt me to drop this time as well.
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On day 2 in normal Grand Prix events, I thought the judges opened the packs ahead of time, stamped them, and replaced the foils with non-foil versions. Annorax should be right in this case.
This is correct, I've traded for a few stamped cards over the years. I've never played a Limited GP, so I have never actually had a stamped deck or anything like that.
That said, one Goyf is only about 2 entry fees, so if I'm out any travel expenses at all, I'm passing the pool. GP San Antonio was almost literally in my backyard & I had no expenses to speak of from that, so I dropped from a last chance sealed trial to keep a foil Flooded Strand + 2 Sorins pool.
A foil Goyf, multiple Goyfs, Goyf + foil Cryptic/Hierarch/Bob etc, I'm out of there with that & queueing up for side events.
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There is no level at which I would pick a Comet Storm over a Foil Tarmogoyf. One card just does not make sufficient impact to overcome a guaranteed $400 in EV, even in a GP top 8; there is a high probability that you will never draw it or that it won't change the outcome of the match when drawn. Possibly somewhere in world championships or at the top 8 of a pro tour or something, but there aren't any events open to the public that I could actually end up in where I would ever pass on a foil goyf.
STANDARD:
RRRMono RedRRR
MODERN:
BGBeatdown ElvesBG
GWDevoted Druid ComboGW
EDH:
URGMaelstrom WandererURG
BBBSheoldred, Whispering OneBBB
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafBG
Looking for Knowledge Pools! All languages, conditions, foil/non-foil, etc. PM me with your Pools and we can work something out
At competitive REL sealed you open a pool, record what you opened and then pass it along to another player. Part of why they do that is to prevent people from cheating by bringing in whatever busted rare is in that set and then claim they opened it. Ideally, you can achieve that same result by having judges or tournament organizers open all the pools and then passing them out, but you're not going to have several dozen people open and record hundreds to thousands of pools.
So if I understand this correctly, I could open a great pool (foil Goyfs aside) with just lots of strong commons and uncommons and maybe a cool rare or two of no major value but the deck has solid synergy and some nice sideboard cards, but would ultimately be stuck with some other person's pool that could be complete and utter garbage?
STANDARD:
RRRMono RedRRR
MODERN:
BGBeatdown ElvesBG
GWDevoted Druid ComboGW
EDH:
URGMaelstrom WandererURG
BBBSheoldred, Whispering OneBBB
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafBG
Looking for Knowledge Pools! All languages, conditions, foil/non-foil, etc. PM me with your Pools and we can work something out
At any point you can drop with the cards in front of you.
The reason this is a matter of discussion is that at GPs, there is a window when you have cards in front of you that are not destined to stay with you (because you register a pool that will be given to someone else so as to reduce the opportunity for cheating). At a prerelease or other Regular REL event, you're not going to be put in the position to weigh keeping a money rare or continue playing in the event. Modern Masters sealed specifically makes this a larger issue than most sets, but I've seen people drop with pools like Elspeth, Brimaz, Foil Brimaz back in Born of the Gods limited.
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Yes, but of course the flipside is that you could be passed a great pool instead of the mediocre pool you opened. It's all luck.
The main idea behind pool swapping is to prevent people from just slipping in a bunch of good limited cards into their sealed pool.
Someone will always get a pool that looks nuts. I can tell you from experience that it only hurts to think of the pool you register as your own.
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Okay I see. Thank you for explaining!
STANDARD:
RRRMono RedRRR
MODERN:
BGBeatdown ElvesBG
GWDevoted Druid ComboGW
EDH:
URGMaelstrom WandererURG
BBBSheoldred, Whispering OneBBB
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafBG
Looking for Knowledge Pools! All languages, conditions, foil/non-foil, etc. PM me with your Pools and we can work something out
Basically although I don't look at it that way. Also you could be the guy who opens and registers a garbage pool and gets to build and play and keep the pool with the good cards in it.