I think they wanted to examine the culture of Magic not the way it is played. You guys are reading too much into the intro.
I thought it was very well done. The comparison to poker was very appropriate especially when applied to higher level play (eyes forward, don't look left or right. PTs seem a little too serious for me much like pro poker). I especially like the Vintage guys and their focus on community. Makes me sad that the Legacy scene in my area is disappearing in favor of Wizards supported formats. To me those Vintage guys were the only ones in the film playing real Magic
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Listen closely as your radio plays
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
"Vintage is how the game was intended to be played."
No, it really isn't, guy.
The game wasn't intended to be played with all the cards ever printed? (I shouldn't have to say it, but obviously excluding things like ante cards.)
But you can't just exclude things like ante for no reason. They were part of how the game was meant to be played.
Given Garfield's comments over the years the only modern format that is even remotely close to how the game was originally "meant" be played would be something like Beta Sealed.
"Vintage is how the game was intended to be played."
No, it really isn't, guy.
The game wasn't intended to be played with all the cards ever printed? (I shouldn't have to say it, but obviously excluding things like ante cards.)
But you can't just exclude things like ante for no reason. They were part of how the game was meant to be played.
Given Garfield's comments over the years the only modern format that is even remotely close to how the game was originally "meant" be played would be something like Beta Sealed.
We're interpreting two different things here. Vintage is "how the game was intended to be played" in that all reasonable cards are legal in the format.
However, what I'm saying is that the decks and strategies of Vintage do not line up at all with Richard Garfield's vision for the game.
Magic was intended to allow for a myriad of deckbuilding and gameplay possibilities, but the Vintage format is streamlined to such a terrifying level that all but the most degenerate strategies are rendered invalid.
That is not "how the game was intended to be played."
He thought that players would spend about as much as they would spend on a normal game on magic (so like less than $50) and then trade etc to build their decks. He thought that most decks wouldn't have multiples of lots of cards, especially rares, which is why there was no four-card limit in early magic. He also worried that the game would grow stale, and designed ante as a way to change up your metagame, as you could lose key cards of your deck.
How the game is "meant to be played" obviously changes over time. The the designers today have a different vision of it than ol Garfield in his days.
But WHO CARES? The player decides how he/she wants to play the game!
I also really appreciated how the Vintage guys main complaint seems to be how much the art has changed. I, too, miss that silly fantasy art. I really don't mind if my cards like like they were pulled out of an old D&D manual.
It's supposed to capture the feeling of a kitchen table game circa 1993. It touches on a shared experience of all (or at least most) Magic players, those early games when the whole game was new to us and a Shivan Dragon was going to win or lose the game on its own. Before we tasted the forbidden fruit of knowledge and realised our cards were naked and we urgently needed to get sleeves because holy crap.
For those wondering about the opening sequence, errors...whatever. Those are players from my shop playing '95 magic', only cards and printings legal in magic as if the year as 1995. They're very competent players, amping up the drama, and undoubtably trolling overly anal magic players...such as yourselves.
Do check out their website and the videos, they go full out:
This was decent. They did unfortunately call the SCG Invitatational the Players' Championship several times though. Also, why did the makers of this focus so much on the art? Why is whether there used to be a pentagram on Unholy Strength more relevant than actually talking about the game as it is now?
I don't understand where you picked that up. In the first 2 minutes they describe the game as a combination of Poker and Chess. Also, everyone that interviewed was articulate and professional. Not a single person that I can recall was even remotely awkward.
I get the impression that you watched the South Park sketch and nothing else. Because that portrays the game that way.
I watched the entire documentary. I do think quite a bit of people in the video displayed various amount of traits that one might consider a lack of social skills. From refusal to interact with others to incapability to show emotion. Some guys were very old and still living at home. People were making huge deals over things that shouldn't be huge deals. I entirely think that is justified, "whatever floats your boat" and all. I just think it looks bad on the "rest of us".
For those wondering about the opening sequence, errors...whatever. Those are players from my shop playing '95 magic', only cards and printings legal in magic as if the year as 1995. They're very competent players, amping up the drama, and undoubtably trolling overly anal magic players...such as yourselves.
Do check out their website and the videos, they go full out:
This was decent. They did unfortunately call the SCG Invitatational the Players' Championship several times though. Also, why did the makers of this focus so much on the art? Why is whether there used to be a pentagram on Unholy Strength more relevant than actually talking about the game as it is now?
The whole "Magic is Satan worship" stigma from the early years is a culturally notable aspect of the game. The video series focuses on the cultural impact of popular forms of media and leisure activities in the US, so bringing up the Satanic stuff isn't out of the question.
For those wondering about the opening sequence, errors...whatever. Those are players from my shop playing '95 magic', only cards and printings legal in magic as if the year as 1995. They're very competent players, amping up the drama, and undoubtably trolling overly anal magic players...such as yourselves.
Do check out their website and the videos, they go full out:
I don't understand where you picked that up. In the first 2 minutes they describe the game as a combination of Poker and Chess. Also, everyone that interviewed was articulate and professional. Not a single person that I can recall was even remotely awkward.
I get the impression that you watched the South Park sketch and nothing else. Because that portrays the game that way.
I watched the entire documentary. I do think quite a bit of people in the video displayed various amount of traits that one might consider a lack of social skills. From refusal to interact with others to incapability to show emotion. Some guys were very old and still living at home. People were making huge deals over things that shouldn't be huge deals. I entirely think that is justified, "whatever floats your boat" and all. I just think it looks bad on the "rest of us".
Are you saying that anyone who shows a hint of something that might out of context be considered a nerd stereotype must be secreted away lest the world discover that, omigosh, there are Magic players who are slightly socially awkward sometimes? There was nothing in that video that was over the top or presented in an embarrassing manner, so your complaint sounds like you think they shouldn't be showing anyone playing the game who is even slightly divergent from the mean. Jacob Wilson's pro tour accomplishments mean nothing because he doesn't show enough emotion? The Forinos' contributions to Vintage are nothing compared with their living arrangements? We mustn't allow the world to see that we are anything other than gilded gods among men?
This was decent. They did unfortunately call the SCG Invitatational the Players' Championship several times though. Also, why did the makers of this focus so much on the art? Why is whether there used to be a pentagram on Unholy Strength more relevant than actually talking about the game as it is now?
The whole "Magic is Satan worship" stigma from the early years is a culturally notable aspect of the game. The video series focuses on the cultural impact of popular forms of media and leisure activities in the US, so bringing up the Satanic stuff isn't out of the question.
It was culturally relevant 20 years ago to right-wing religious nuts. It isn't anymore and there are many things that have more of a cultural impact in Magic today that they could have spent more time talking about instead.
Are you saying that anyone who shows a hint of something that might out of context be considered a nerd stereotype must be secreted away lest the world discover that, omigosh, there are Magic players who are slightly socially awkward sometimes? There was nothing in that video that was over the top or presented in an embarrassing manner, so your complaint sounds like you think they shouldn't be showing anyone playing the game who is even slightly divergent from the mean. Jacob Wilson's pro tour accomplishments mean nothing because he doesn't show enough emotion? The Forinos' contributions to Vintage are nothing compared with their living arrangements? We mustn't allow the world to see that we are anything other than gilded gods among men?
I have a feeling that what I wrote and how you reacted are not on the same level. I just want to know if you realise the things you seem to be implying. You know, lets break it down for you:
Are you saying that anyone who shows a hint of something that might out of context be considered a nerd stereotype must be secreted away lest the world discover that, omigosh, there are Magic players who are slightly socially awkward sometimes?
There was nothing in that video that was over the top or presented in an embarrassing manner, so your complaint sounds like you think they shouldn't be showing anyone playing the game who is even slightly divergent from the mean.
I think over the top is very subjective. My friend fantasised about dating the Sen Triplets, and how attractive they were. I think that is over the top while he obviously didn't think so. Same thing here. Now, before you go on, no I did not say that all magic players want to date their cards or anything.
This was decent. They did unfortunately call the SCG Invitatational the Players' Championship several times though. Also, why did the makers of this focus so much on the art? Why is whether there used to be a pentagram on Unholy Strength more relevant than actually talking about the game as it is now?
The whole "Magic is Satan worship" stigma from the early years is a culturally notable aspect of the game. The video series focuses on the cultural impact of popular forms of media and leisure activities in the US, so bringing up the Satanic stuff isn't out of the question.
It was culturally relevant 20 years ago to right-wing religious nuts. It isn't anymore and there are many things that have more of a cultural impact in Magic today that they could have spent more time talking about instead.
Being from Pittsburgh, I knew a lot of blue collar democratic parents. A few of them objected to the game because of it's supposed satanic imagery and 1-2 of them actually pitched their kids (my friends) collections. So no, it wasn't "right-wing religious nuts". You've been watching to much MSNBC. As an adult, I know quit a few very religious people who are also democrats.
Also, the topic is still relevant. The Doc is about how magic has transitioned from a small time game, into a hugely popular one. From the blurb on Vice.com "Since the trading card game debuted in 1993, Magic: The Gathering has gone from being a niche hobby to an international phenomenon.".
Are you saying that anyone who shows a hint of something that might out of context be considered a nerd stereotype must be secreted away lest the world discover that, omigosh, there are Magic players who are slightly socially awkward sometimes?
Nowhere did I say that.
So what did you say? You raised a number of points that apparently made you feel ashamed by their portrayal in this piece. By my viewing, no attention was drawn to these traits and their portrayal was merely in the process of presenting the players in question as the complex individuals they are. If you're not arguing that the piece should have concealed these traits or the people who display them then what are you arguing?
There was nothing in that video that was over the top or presented in an embarrassing manner, so your complaint sounds like you think they shouldn't be showing anyone playing the game who is even slightly divergent from the mean.
I think over the top is very subjective. My friend fantasised about dating the Sen Triplets, and how attractive they were. I think that is over the top while he obviously didn't think so. Same thing here. Now, before you go on, no I did not say that all magic players want to date their cards or anything.
I'm not sure why you'd assume I'd say you said that, but if I am misunderstanding your intent it might be because you're being so maddeningly vague about what exactly you think is wrong here. "People were making huge deals over things that shouldn't be huge deals" real descriptive. I watched a video in which a number of people discussed Magic and their broad range of experiences with it. You apparently watched a video swarming with neurotics and shut-ins. There's subjective opinion and there's being unreasonable; if I encountered a group of people behaving the way Magic players did in that video I would not give it a moments' notice, because as far as I can tell they are behaving perfectly normally. I really cannot figure out what you think is over the top there.
The Forinos' contributions to Vintage are nothing compared with their living arrangements?
I think you are just trying to be argumentative by this point.
These represent my best guesses as to what on earth you meant by, respectively, "incapability to show emotion" and "Some guys were very old and still living at home". It's entirely possible I completely missed on one or both (see "maddeningly vague", supra). However, if you weren't referring to Jacob Wilson being incapable of showing emotion (I only thought you might be because his poker face was specifically mentioned in the video and there's nothing else that even comes close) or the Forino brothers living at home, I cannot for the life of me imagine where you saw those things. That's what I mean by not "over the top", no attention is draw to these things if they're even present at all.
We mustn't allow the world to see that we are anything other than gilded gods among men?
Do you really think this is a logical assumption to make based on what I've posted?
I invite you to disabuse me of the notion that you expect portrayals of Magic in the media to hide any slightest hint of social awkwardness. "Gilded gods among men" is too colourful, I confess, but the point I am trying to make is that everyone has minor quirks that set them aside from the precise normal and you will see those sorts of things in any similar documentary about any subculture. I do believe it is a logical conclusion of what you have stated, being that you are embarrassed by the fact that social awkwardness is apparent in some ways in the piece, suggesting that you believe it shouldn't have been in the piece, suggesting that you want Magic players to be falsely represented as an unrealistically "average" specimen of humanity. Again, I invite you to disabuse me of this notion. Your vague allusions to "subjectively over the top" awkwardness that I can't see has not thus far done so.
This was decent. They did unfortunately call the SCG Invitatational the Players' Championship several times though. Also, why did the makers of this focus so much on the art? Why is whether there used to be a pentagram on Unholy Strength more relevant than actually talking about the game as it is now?
The whole "Magic is Satan worship" stigma from the early years is a culturally notable aspect of the game. The video series focuses on the cultural impact of popular forms of media and leisure activities in the US, so bringing up the Satanic stuff isn't out of the question.
It was culturally relevant 20 years ago to right-wing religious nuts. It isn't anymore and there are many things that have more of a cultural impact in Magic today that they could have spent more time talking about instead.
The purpose of the documentary wasn't just to show Magic's cultural relevance currently, but its relevance throughout its lifetime. I do agree with you that they could have included more subjects to the documentary (Why nothing on Magic being on ESPN?), but I see nothing wrong with including the art controversy. For better or for worse, it's part of Magic's history.
This was decent. They did unfortunately call the SCG Invitatational the Players' Championship several times though. Also, why did the makers of this focus so much on the art? Why is whether there used to be a pentagram on Unholy Strength more relevant than actually talking about the game as it is now?
The whole "Magic is Satan worship" stigma from the early years is a culturally notable aspect of the game. The video series focuses on the cultural impact of popular forms of media and leisure activities in the US, so bringing up the Satanic stuff isn't out of the question.
It was culturally relevant 20 years ago to right-wing religious nuts. It isn't anymore and there are many things that have more of a cultural impact in Magic today that they could have spent more time talking about instead.
Being from Pittsburgh, I knew a lot of blue collar democratic parents. A few of them objected to the game because of it's supposed satanic imagery and 1-2 of them actually pitched their kids (my friends) collections. So no, it wasn't "right-wing religious nuts". You've been watching to much MSNBC. As an adult, I know quit a few very religious people who are also democrats.
Also, the topic is still relevant. The Doc is about how magic has transitioned from a small time game, into a hugely popular one. From the blurb on Vice.com "Since the trading card game debuted in 1993, Magic: The Gathering has gone from being a niche hobby to an international phenomenon.".
Fine, all of those people's parents were idiots who never even thought about how they were saying that a game that literally has angels and a card called Wrath of God in it can be Satanic.
This was decent. They did unfortunately call the SCG Invitatational the Players' Championship several times though. Also, why did the makers of this focus so much on the art? Why is whether there used to be a pentagram on Unholy Strength more relevant than actually talking about the game as it is now?
The whole "Magic is Satan worship" stigma from the early years is a culturally notable aspect of the game. The video series focuses on the cultural impact of popular forms of media and leisure activities in the US, so bringing up the Satanic stuff isn't out of the question.
It was culturally relevant 20 years ago to right-wing religious nuts. It isn't anymore and there are many things that have more of a cultural impact in Magic today that they could have spent more time talking about instead.
Being from Pittsburgh, I knew a lot of blue collar democratic parents. A few of them objected to the game because of it's supposed satanic imagery and 1-2 of them actually pitched their kids (my friends) collections. So no, it wasn't "right-wing religious nuts". You've been watching to much MSNBC. As an adult, I know quit a few very religious people who are also democrats.
Also, the topic is still relevant. The Doc is about how magic has transitioned from a small time game, into a hugely popular one. From the blurb on Vice.com "Since the trading card game debuted in 1993, Magic: The Gathering has gone from being a niche hobby to an international phenomenon.".
Fine, all of those people's parents were idiots who never even thought about how they were saying that a game that literally has angels and a card called Wrath of God in it can be Satanic.
I watched the entire documentary. I do think quite a bit of people in the video displayed various amount of traits that one might consider a lack of social skills. From refusal to interact with others to incapability to show emotion. Some guys were very old and still living at home. People were making huge deals over things that shouldn't be huge deals. I entirely think that is justified, "whatever floats your boat" and all. I just think it looks bad on the "rest of us".
Where was the refusal to interact with others? I wouldn't say that he was incapable of showing emotion, I just saw it as his "poker face".
As for the older guys. I thought that at first too, but after his brother was introduced, I figured they used their parents house as a meeting point. From the sequence, it seemed like they had dinner at the house and left their daughter with grandma so they could go play Vintage. Also I got the impression that's were they store their shared collection of cards. Maybe, I just missed the part were they actually said one/both of them live at home.
Well, except that they didn't use sleeves...
I thought it was very well done. The comparison to poker was very appropriate especially when applied to higher level play (eyes forward, don't look left or right. PTs seem a little too serious for me much like pro poker). I especially like the Vintage guys and their focus on community. Makes me sad that the Legacy scene in my area is disappearing in favor of Wizards supported formats. To me those Vintage guys were the only ones in the film playing real Magic
a program of a slightly different strain.
Tonight my listeners, a new power will rise,
unleashed upon you all in this musical disguise.
Your cities turn to ash, for the broadcast is cursed.
The signal is peaking and can't be reversed.
If you choose my children, you can try to hide.
But I strongly suggest you run for your life."
-The Sermon 2, The Creepshow
But you can't just exclude things like ante for no reason. They were part of how the game was meant to be played.
Given Garfield's comments over the years the only modern format that is even remotely close to how the game was originally "meant" be played would be something like Beta Sealed.
Ante cards are excluded for legal reasons.
What was Garfield's vision for the game exactly?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
But WHO CARES? The player decides how he/she wants to play the game!
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
It's supposed to capture the feeling of a kitchen table game circa 1993. It touches on a shared experience of all (or at least most) Magic players, those early games when the whole game was new to us and a Shivan Dragon was going to win or lose the game on its own. Before we tasted the forbidden fruit of knowledge and realised our cards were naked and we urgently needed to get sleeves because holy crap.
Do check out their website and the videos, they go full out:
http://www.landlotusjuzam.net/
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I watched the entire documentary. I do think quite a bit of people in the video displayed various amount of traits that one might consider a lack of social skills. From refusal to interact with others to incapability to show emotion. Some guys were very old and still living at home. People were making huge deals over things that shouldn't be huge deals. I entirely think that is justified, "whatever floats your boat" and all. I just think it looks bad on the "rest of us".
This video trumps the Vice Doc. Thanks for sharing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4REGxiYijM0
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Its a for us, by us kind of thing--so it goes.
Are you saying that anyone who shows a hint of something that might out of context be considered a nerd stereotype must be secreted away lest the world discover that, omigosh, there are Magic players who are slightly socially awkward sometimes? There was nothing in that video that was over the top or presented in an embarrassing manner, so your complaint sounds like you think they shouldn't be showing anyone playing the game who is even slightly divergent from the mean. Jacob Wilson's pro tour accomplishments mean nothing because he doesn't show enough emotion? The Forinos' contributions to Vintage are nothing compared with their living arrangements? We mustn't allow the world to see that we are anything other than gilded gods among men?
It was culturally relevant 20 years ago to right-wing religious nuts. It isn't anymore and there are many things that have more of a cultural impact in Magic today that they could have spent more time talking about instead.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I have a feeling that what I wrote and how you reacted are not on the same level. I just want to know if you realise the things you seem to be implying. You know, lets break it down for you:
Nowhere did I say that.
I think over the top is very subjective. My friend fantasised about dating the Sen Triplets, and how attractive they were. I think that is over the top while he obviously didn't think so. Same thing here. Now, before you go on, no I did not say that all magic players want to date their cards or anything.
How did you even come up with this?
I think you are just trying to be argumentative by this point.
Do you really think this is a logical assumption to make based on what I've posted?
Being from Pittsburgh, I knew a lot of blue collar democratic parents. A few of them objected to the game because of it's supposed satanic imagery and 1-2 of them actually pitched their kids (my friends) collections. So no, it wasn't "right-wing religious nuts". You've been watching to much MSNBC. As an adult, I know quit a few very religious people who are also democrats.
Also, the topic is still relevant. The Doc is about how magic has transitioned from a small time game, into a hugely popular one. From the blurb on Vice.com "Since the trading card game debuted in 1993, Magic: The Gathering has gone from being a niche hobby to an international phenomenon.".
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
So what did you say? You raised a number of points that apparently made you feel ashamed by their portrayal in this piece. By my viewing, no attention was drawn to these traits and their portrayal was merely in the process of presenting the players in question as the complex individuals they are. If you're not arguing that the piece should have concealed these traits or the people who display them then what are you arguing?
I'm not sure why you'd assume I'd say you said that, but if I am misunderstanding your intent it might be because you're being so maddeningly vague about what exactly you think is wrong here. "People were making huge deals over things that shouldn't be huge deals" real descriptive. I watched a video in which a number of people discussed Magic and their broad range of experiences with it. You apparently watched a video swarming with neurotics and shut-ins. There's subjective opinion and there's being unreasonable; if I encountered a group of people behaving the way Magic players did in that video I would not give it a moments' notice, because as far as I can tell they are behaving perfectly normally. I really cannot figure out what you think is over the top there.
These represent my best guesses as to what on earth you meant by, respectively, "incapability to show emotion" and "Some guys were very old and still living at home". It's entirely possible I completely missed on one or both (see "maddeningly vague", supra). However, if you weren't referring to Jacob Wilson being incapable of showing emotion (I only thought you might be because his poker face was specifically mentioned in the video and there's nothing else that even comes close) or the Forino brothers living at home, I cannot for the life of me imagine where you saw those things. That's what I mean by not "over the top", no attention is draw to these things if they're even present at all.
I invite you to disabuse me of the notion that you expect portrayals of Magic in the media to hide any slightest hint of social awkwardness. "Gilded gods among men" is too colourful, I confess, but the point I am trying to make is that everyone has minor quirks that set them aside from the precise normal and you will see those sorts of things in any similar documentary about any subculture. I do believe it is a logical conclusion of what you have stated, being that you are embarrassed by the fact that social awkwardness is apparent in some ways in the piece, suggesting that you believe it shouldn't have been in the piece, suggesting that you want Magic players to be falsely represented as an unrealistically "average" specimen of humanity. Again, I invite you to disabuse me of this notion. Your vague allusions to "subjectively over the top" awkwardness that I can't see has not thus far done so.
Fine, all of those people's parents were idiots who never even thought about how they were saying that a game that literally has angels and a card called Wrath of God in it can be Satanic.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Fine, all of those people's parents were idiots who never even thought about how they were saying that a game that literally has angels and a card called Wrath of God in it can be Satanic.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Where was the refusal to interact with others? I wouldn't say that he was incapable of showing emotion, I just saw it as his "poker face".
As for the older guys. I thought that at first too, but after his brother was introduced, I figured they used their parents house as a meeting point. From the sequence, it seemed like they had dinner at the house and left their daughter with grandma so they could go play Vintage. Also I got the impression that's were they store their shared collection of cards. Maybe, I just missed the part were they actually said one/both of them live at home.
What were people making a big deal over?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B