Ive noticed what the OP says. They do seem to be getting less useful. And harder to work with.
For instance, Torrent Elemental.
Its a 5 cost for a 3/5 flyer. Im sorry but thats nothing to be amazed about. So already we have 1 strike against it.
Now if it was a 3 or 2 cost, you would definitely catch my attention, and it would definitel make it seem mythic, legendary, powerful etc. Isnt that the essence of mythic, omnipotent, etc?
Next whenever you attack, tap all opponents creatures, hey thats not bad. Sounds good. But for 5 mana, and can easily be burned, or bounced....that 5 mana is kinda hurting me now. Maybe if it was again 2 or 3 mana, I would mind as much.
And then not only can I play it as a 3/5 flyer for 5 mana, i can play it tapped at any time as a 3/5 flyer for 5 mana.Eh somewhat good but somewhat bad. Yea its gonna be played as an instant alot during the opponents turn, but I just feel that the main problem with this card is its high mana cost. since mana ramp for blue is nearly non existant, I dont see this card ever becoming very good. It might do ok in some late game scenarios, but the high mana cost has me saying why the hell is this mythic and not a rare?
ok how about Whisperwood Elemental?
again 5 cost for a 4/4. what is with these high mana costs. I can get a 1/1 for 1 mana. a 2/2 for 1 or 2 mana. a 3/3 for 3 mana....etc... maybe not in standard necessarily, but shouldnt a MYTHIC rare stand the tests of time? and go down in history as something MYTHIC? LEGENDARY? something that makes me go yea, that was a good card. Everyone knows JTMS, but will everyone know Whisperwood Elemental in 5 years? I highly doubt that.
Lets break this card down outsite of the high mana cost.
We get to first manifest the top card of our library. I say nay. So i can potentially abuse lands and instants and sorceries as creatures. Great. That does me no good, as I might really need those cards to not be creatures. Or I can basically morph my 2/2 creatures for their mana cost, which might be worse than a 2/2. Manifest has some potential, but Im just not seeing it, unless you run creature heavy conditions for winning.
worh the 5 mana? maybe at this point, but is it worth the 5 mana in a whole? Im just not seeing it, unless again im running creatures heavily.
Or I can sack it and give all my creatures, basically regeneration with 2/2s. Wonderful, you better be hoping you play this in a lame game, with a creature heavy win con, or you just possibly wasted another 3rd or half of your deck as creatures...
worth the 5 mana? im only seeing it for creature heavy win con decks. Truly mythic? No, at best this is a Rare.
Next look at Warden of the First Tree.
All this is is a level up creature. With ok abilities. Nothing Id wanna brag about. Easily burned. Worth the mythic rating? Hell no.
Ghastly Consciption next.
7 mana to abuse your opponents graveyard. Not bad. Heres a card thats more or less worth the mana. but thats 1 card thats faily good out of 4 already.
late in the game, this manifest is one thats actually not a letdown as I dont have to potentially waste my deck, and it helps defeat delve.
Brutal Hordchief next.
here we go again. 4 for a 3/3. ugh. ok so what are the effects, are they worth the extra mana?
Whenever a creature you control attacks, defending player loses a life and you gain a life. Not bad, but your gonna need to have a few of these on the field, to really abuse this power.
Creatures your ooponents control block this turn and you choose how they block. Not bad again. Great though? Im not seeing it. So I can make your beasties block my deathouchers and and your weenies block my tramplers, etc.. or I can make you double or triple+ block my creatures to try and wipe the board.
Not bad. Again though, is it worth the 5 mana? maybe? thats in total a 9 cost affect. Late in the game this card would be good, again for creature heavy decks is what I make of it. Like Ghastly Consciption, this card is somewhat worth the Mythic rating. Though thats pushing it.
Temporal Tresspass
Hey for 3 mana, or 11 if you want, I can take an extra turn. Pretty damn good.
But where does this put us? 3 good mythics out of 6. Can you see why the OP feels the way they do, I sure can.
whats next?
Soulfire Grand Master.
2 mana for a 2/2. Now we are talking, though maybe for a 3/3 would be more mythic sounding. Lifelink, hey look at that. Not bad. lets continue.
Instant and socery spells you control have lifelink, dafuq? I have seen alot of talk and debate about this. If I manifest a instant or sorcery spell as a 2/2 does it have lifelink? but how would that be possible if i dont control an instant or sorcery spell, because I control a 2/2 creature instead?
Maybe I can burn you and get life out of it? Maybe this is a troll card. Hell if I know.
The next time you cast an instant or sorcery spell, when it resolved put it back in to your hand. Now we are talking. This reminds me of buyback, or the Unhinged card Stop That somewhat. But this effect cost 4 mana in addition to the mana of the spell we cast. Similar to buyback. But that will make this card a high target for removal or burn etc. So wouldnt we want to truly make this mythic by bumping it to a 2/4 at the very least, maybe a 2/5?
Good card but the low toughness given its abilities makes me see this card as a Rare, not mythic. Now we have 3 good mythics out of 7 cards.
Next we have Monastery Mentor, which theres been a lot of talk about.
3 mana for a 2/2 prowess. Ok not bad but you could have given me a 3/3 or a 2/3 to emphasize the mythic rarity.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, get a 1/1 prowess creature. Not bad.
Id say other than the 2/2 part for 3 mana, this card is deserving of the mythic rarity. now we are back to 4 decent mythics out of 8 reviewed cards. again 50%. again I can agree with the OP's feelings.
Next we have Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. The only dragon ive seen since ive heard about dragons being in F/R
8 for a 7 loyalty counter. Not bad. Lets continue though.
+2 and I get to burn for 3. ok ok.
-X I get to exile each permamanent for a converted mana cost thats 1 or more colors. Again not bad not bad.
-10 I get to buffer my game for the number of 7 cards drawn, 7 life, and 7 permanents onto the battlefield.
All of this last effect is great, other than the lifegain. 7 life? thats it? not 10? not 7 times the amount of cards in my hand?
Ok maybe that last suggestion is pushing it, but I just took 10 counters off and all I get is 7 life? But people say you get to draw 7 cards too!
Now I potentially get to have to discard cards I might need. Its a give and take situation. But you get to put 7 permanents out, and what if I dont have any? What if I just drew into 7 cards not creatures, lands, or artifacts, or the majority arent? Seems underpowered if you ask me.
So out of 9 reviewed cards we have 4 that are decent, not EYE POPPING AMAZING, but decent, and we have an ok planeswalker.
So we are looking at 50%+ cards that deserve the mythic rarity, and 4 that dont. WHY?
Why not all of them? I know that WOTC has to balance the game, and not all mythics have gone down in history, but I do notice a trend in mythic rares ever losing their mythic-ness.
Thanks for taken the time for the write up. I agree with your card assessments. Monastery Mentor as a 2/2 should be a regular rare. Mentor as a 2/4, which would get it out of Bile blight and Anger of the gods range that would be Mythic.
Its a 5 cost for a 3/5 flyer. Im sorry but thats nothing to be amazed about. So already we have 1 strike against it.
Now if it was a 3 or 2 cost, you would definitely catch my attention, and it would definitel make it seem mythic, legendary, powerful etc.
Next whenever you attack, tap all opponents creatures, hey thats not bad. Sounds good. But for 5 mana, and can easily be burned, or bounced....that 5 mana is kinda hurting me now. Maybe if it was again 2 or 3 mana, I would mind as much.
This is a joke, right? a 3/5 flyer for 3 mana? a 5 toughness creature is "easily burned"?
...looking at the rest of the post, if it is a joke, he's pretty dedicated to it.
Ive noticed what the OP says. They do seem to be getting less useful. And harder to work with.
For instance, Torrent Elemental.
Its a 5 cost for a 3/5 flyer. Im sorry but thats nothing to be amazed about. So already we have 1 strike against it.
Now if it was a 3 or 2 cost, you would definitely catch my attention, and it would definitel make it seem mythic, legendary, powerful etc. Isnt that the essence of mythic, omnipotent, etc?
Next whenever you attack, tap all opponents creatures, hey thats not bad. Sounds good. But for 5 mana, and can easily be burned, or bounced....that 5 mana is kinda hurting me now. Maybe if it was again 2 or 3 mana, I would mind as much.
And then not only can I play it as a 3/5 flyer for 5 mana, i can play it tapped at any time as a 3/5 flyer for 5 mana.Eh somewhat good but somewhat bad. Yea its gonna be played as an instant alot during the opponents turn, but I just feel that the main problem with this card is its high mana cost. since mana ramp for blue is nearly non existant, I dont see this card ever becoming very good. It might do ok in some late game scenarios, but the high mana cost has me saying why the hell is this mythic and not a rare?
ok how about Whisperwood Elemental?
again 5 cost for a 4/4. what is with these high mana costs. I can get a 1/1 for 1 mana. a 2/2 for 1 or 2 mana. a 3/3 for 3 mana....etc... maybe not in standard necessarily, but shouldnt a MYTHIC rare stand the tests of time? and go down in history as something MYTHIC? LEGENDARY? something that makes me go yea, that was a good card. Everyone knows JTMS, but will everyone know Whisperwood Elemental in 5 years? I highly doubt that.
Lets break this card down outsite of the high mana cost.
We get to first manifest the top card of our library. I say nay. So i can potentially abuse lands and instants and sorceries as creatures. Great. That does me no good, as I might really need those cards to not be creatures. Or I can basically morph my 2/2 creatures for their mana cost, which might be worse than a 2/2. Manifest has some potential, but Im just not seeing it, unless you run creature heavy conditions for winning.
worh the 5 mana? maybe at this point, but is it worth the 5 mana in a whole? Im just not seeing it, unless again im running creatures heavily.
Or I can sack it and give all my creatures, basically regeneration with 2/2s. Wonderful, you better be hoping you play this in a lame game, with a creature heavy win con, or you just possibly wasted another 3rd or half of your deck as creatures...
worth the 5 mana? im only seeing it for creature heavy win con decks. Truly mythic? No, at best this is a Rare.
Next look at Warden of the First Tree.
All this is is a level up creature. With ok abilities. Nothing Id wanna brag about. Easily burned. Worth the mythic rating? Hell no.
Ghastly Consciption next.
7 mana to abuse your opponents graveyard. Not bad. Heres a card thats more or less worth the mana. but thats 1 card thats faily good out of 4 already.
late in the game, this manifest is one thats actually not a letdown as I dont have to potentially waste my deck, and it helps defeat delve.
Brutal Hordchief next.
here we go again. 4 for a 3/3. ugh. ok so what are the effects, are they worth the extra mana?
Whenever a creature you control attacks, defending player loses a life and you gain a life. Not bad, but your gonna need to have a few of these on the field, to really abuse this power.
Creatures your ooponents control block this turn and you choose how they block. Not bad again. Great though? Im not seeing it. So I can make your beasties block my deathouchers and and your weenies block my tramplers, etc.. or I can make you double or triple+ block my creatures to try and wipe the board.
Not bad. Again though, is it worth the 5 mana? maybe? thats in total a 9 cost affect. Late in the game this card would be good, again for creature heavy decks is what I make of it. Like Ghastly Consciption, this card is somewhat worth the Mythic rating. Though thats pushing it.
Temporal Tresspass
Hey for 3 mana, or 11 if you want, I can take an extra turn. Pretty damn good.
But where does this put us? 3 good mythics out of 6. Can you see why the OP feels the way they do, I sure can.
whats next?
Soulfire Grand Master.
2 mana for a 2/2. Now we are talking, though maybe for a 3/3 would be more mythic sounding. Lifelink, hey look at that. Not bad. lets continue.
Instant and socery spells you control have lifelink, dafuq? I have seen alot of talk and debate about this. If I manifest a instant or sorcery spell as a 2/2 does it have lifelink? but how would that be possible if i dont control an instant or sorcery spell, because I control a 2/2 creature instead?
Maybe I can burn you and get life out of it? Maybe this is a troll card. Hell if I know.
The next time you cast an instant or sorcery spell, when it resolved put it back in to your hand. Now we are talking. This reminds me of buyback, or the Unhinged card Stop That somewhat. But this effect cost 4 mana in addition to the mana of the spell we cast. Similar to buyback. But that will make this card a high target for removal or burn etc. So wouldnt we want to truly make this mythic by bumping it to a 2/4 at the very least, maybe a 2/5?
Good card but the low toughness given its abilities makes me see this card as a Rare, not mythic. Now we have 3 good mythics out of 7 cards.
Next we have Monastery Mentor, which theres been a lot of talk about.
3 mana for a 2/2 prowess. Ok not bad but you could have given me a 3/3 or a 2/3 to emphasize the mythic rarity.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, get a 1/1 prowess creature. Not bad.
Id say other than the 2/2 part for 3 mana, this card is deserving of the mythic rarity. now we are back to 4 decent mythics out of 8 reviewed cards. again 50%. again I can agree with the OP's feelings.
Next we have Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. The only dragon ive seen since ive heard about dragons being in F/R
8 for a 7 loyalty counter. Not bad. Lets continue though.
+2 and I get to burn for 3. ok ok.
-X I get to exile each permamanent for a converted mana cost thats 1 or more colors. Again not bad not bad.
-10 I get to buffer my game for the number of 7 cards drawn, 7 life, and 7 permanents onto the battlefield.
All of this last effect is great, other than the lifegain. 7 life? thats it? not 10? not 7 times the amount of cards in my hand?
Ok maybe that last suggestion is pushing it, but I just took 10 counters off and all I get is 7 life? But people say you get to draw 7 cards too!
Now I potentially get to have to discard cards I might need. Its a give and take situation. But you get to put 7 permanents out, and what if I dont have any? What if I just drew into 7 cards not creatures, lands, or artifacts, or the majority arent? Seems underpowered if you ask me.
So out of 9 reviewed cards we have 4 that are decent, not EYE POPPING AMAZING, but decent, and we have an ok planeswalker.
So we are looking at 50%+ cards that deserve the mythic rarity, and 4 that dont. WHY?
Why not all of them? I know that WOTC has to balance the game, and not all mythics have gone down in history, but I do notice a trend in mythic rares ever losing their mythic-ness.
Many reasons were created for having mythics, but I'll list two of them: 1. Mythics were created for big, flashy cards. 2. Balance limited.
So we are looking at 50%+ cards that deserve the mythic rarity, and 4 that dont. WHY?
Why not all of them? I know that WOTC has to balance the game, and not all mythics have gone down in history, but I do notice a trend in mythic rares ever losing their mythic-ness.
I don't think you understand what WOTC wants mythics to be. Mythics are not supposed to be better cards. They are supposed to be flashy cards. And they're not all supposed to be flashy to everyone. Specifically, this:
"shouldnt a MYTHIC rare stand the tests of time? and go down in history as something MYTHIC? LEGENDARY? something that makes me go yea, that was a good card."
Categorically no. That is not now, nor has it ever been the purpose of the Mythic rarity.
Assuming it lives until your end step, it's 5 cost for a 4/4 and a 2/2. 5 mana for 6 P/T is a little better.
yea, thats what im saying. too easy to get rid of alot of these mythics. if it doesnt live, you just paid 5 mana for a 2/2. what a waste
You paid 5 mana for a 2/2 AND took a big removal spell from your opponents hand!
And I hope you just wanted to illustrate your point with the mana costs you proposed in your first post? Because some of them would break constructed formats in half. For example - your proposal to make the monastery mentor a 3 toughness creatur and one single instant would suddenly save him from a bolt in eternal formats - the power boost he would receive that way would by far to high (even now I think he is bonkers in legacy/vintage, because there you can get immediate value from him with some 0 mana spells)
So we are looking at 50%+ cards that deserve the mythic rarity, and 4 that dont. WHY?
Why not all of them? I know that WOTC has to balance the game, and not all mythics have gone down in history, but I do notice a trend in mythic rares ever losing their mythic-ness.
I don't think you understand what WOTC wants mythics to be. Mythics are not supposed to be better cards. They are supposed to be flashy cards. And they're not all supposed to be flashy to everyone. Specifically, this:
"shouldnt a MYTHIC rare stand the tests of time? and go down in history as something MYTHIC? LEGENDARY? something that makes me go yea, that was a good card."
Categorically no. That is not now, nor has it ever been the purpose of the Mythic rarity.
For a fair deal they have some form of "mythic" they intentionally push a little bit more than they do for ordinary rare.
They arent "that" fair with it. They know they have to push a mythic if the card isnt flashy otherwise.
Vengevine for example, its 4/3 haste for 2GG , it comes for free from the grave and its "green" (not black, nor multicolor) ; they clearly pushed it, to make sure it sees play. The card would work without haste, but they badly wanted it to have haste, to make it "matter".
They do that often.
If they want the card to feel special for spike, they reduce cost, add some abilities they KNOW will matter, so the card will see play, for the power it forces.
A lot of these cards could totally be just rares. That does not mean that rares are just worse than mythic, we still get good rares no question, but if a card gets promoted to mythic, it will have some form of "upgrade" , that should be obvisious, as thats what makes it feel so "special" for a spike ; you need to look at a card and at least somehow question "is this fair ?" , and the easiest way to archive that, make a card cost 1 mana less than it would normally be.
Also, if they do something that "kinda" feels out of the color pie or try out something new, they also might do it on a mythic first, as then it feels "special" aswell.
Ive noticed what the OP says. They do seem to be getting less useful. And harder to work with.
For instance, Torrent Elemental.
Its a 5 cost for a 3/5 flyer. Im sorry but thats nothing to be amazed about. So already we have 1 strike against it.
Now if it was a 3 or 2 cost, you would definitely catch my attention, and it would definitel make it seem mythic, legendary, powerful etc. Isnt that the essence of mythic, omnipotent, etc?
Next whenever you attack, tap all opponents creatures, hey thats not bad. Sounds good. But for 5 mana, and can easily be burned, or bounced....that 5 mana is kinda hurting me now. Maybe if it was again 2 or 3 mana, I would mind as much.
And then not only can I play it as a 3/5 flyer for 5 mana, i can play it tapped at any time as a 3/5 flyer for 5 mana.Eh somewhat good but somewhat bad. Yea its gonna be played as an instant alot during the opponents turn, but I just feel that the main problem with this card is its high mana cost. since mana ramp for blue is nearly non existant, I dont see this card ever becoming very good. It might do ok in some late game scenarios, but the high mana cost has me saying why the hell is this mythic and not a rare?
ok how about Whisperwood Elemental?
again 5 cost for a 4/4. what is with these high mana costs. I can get a 1/1 for 1 mana. a 2/2 for 1 or 2 mana. a 3/3 for 3 mana....etc... maybe not in standard necessarily, but shouldnt a MYTHIC rare stand the tests of time? and go down in history as something MYTHIC? LEGENDARY? something that makes me go yea, that was a good card. Everyone knows JTMS, but will everyone know Whisperwood Elemental in 5 years? I highly doubt that.
Lets break this card down outsite of the high mana cost.
We get to first manifest the top card of our library. I say nay. So i can potentially abuse lands and instants and sorceries as creatures. Great. That does me no good, as I might really need those cards to not be creatures. Or I can basically morph my 2/2 creatures for their mana cost, which might be worse than a 2/2. Manifest has some potential, but Im just not seeing it, unless you run creature heavy conditions for winning.
worh the 5 mana? maybe at this point, but is it worth the 5 mana in a whole? Im just not seeing it, unless again im running creatures heavily.
Or I can sack it and give all my creatures, basically regeneration with 2/2s. Wonderful, you better be hoping you play this in a lame game, with a creature heavy win con, or you just possibly wasted another 3rd or half of your deck as creatures...
worth the 5 mana? im only seeing it for creature heavy win con decks. Truly mythic? No, at best this is a Rare.
Next look at Warden of the First Tree.
All this is is a level up creature. With ok abilities. Nothing Id wanna brag about. Easily burned. Worth the mythic rating? Hell no.
Ghastly Consciption next.
7 mana to abuse your opponents graveyard. Not bad. Heres a card thats more or less worth the mana. but thats 1 card thats faily good out of 4 already.
late in the game, this manifest is one thats actually not a letdown as I dont have to potentially waste my deck, and it helps defeat delve.
Brutal Hordchief next.
here we go again. 4 for a 3/3. ugh. ok so what are the effects, are they worth the extra mana?
Whenever a creature you control attacks, defending player loses a life and you gain a life. Not bad, but your gonna need to have a few of these on the field, to really abuse this power.
Creatures your ooponents control block this turn and you choose how they block. Not bad again. Great though? Im not seeing it. So I can make your beasties block my deathouchers and and your weenies block my tramplers, etc.. or I can make you double or triple+ block my creatures to try and wipe the board.
Not bad. Again though, is it worth the 5 mana? maybe? thats in total a 9 cost affect. Late in the game this card would be good, again for creature heavy decks is what I make of it. Like Ghastly Consciption, this card is somewhat worth the Mythic rating. Though thats pushing it.
Temporal Tresspass
Hey for 3 mana, or 11 if you want, I can take an extra turn. Pretty damn good.
But where does this put us? 3 good mythics out of 6. Can you see why the OP feels the way they do, I sure can.
whats next?
Soulfire Grand Master.
2 mana for a 2/2. Now we are talking, though maybe for a 3/3 would be more mythic sounding. Lifelink, hey look at that. Not bad. lets continue.
Instant and socery spells you control have lifelink, dafuq? I have seen alot of talk and debate about this. If I manifest a instant or sorcery spell as a 2/2 does it have lifelink? but how would that be possible if i dont control an instant or sorcery spell, because I control a 2/2 creature instead?
Maybe I can burn you and get life out of it? Maybe this is a troll card. Hell if I know.
The next time you cast an instant or sorcery spell, when it resolved put it back in to your hand. Now we are talking. This reminds me of buyback, or the Unhinged card Stop That somewhat. But this effect cost 4 mana in addition to the mana of the spell we cast. Similar to buyback. But that will make this card a high target for removal or burn etc. So wouldnt we want to truly make this mythic by bumping it to a 2/4 at the very least, maybe a 2/5?
Good card but the low toughness given its abilities makes me see this card as a Rare, not mythic. Now we have 3 good mythics out of 7 cards.
Next we have Monastery Mentor, which theres been a lot of talk about.
3 mana for a 2/2 prowess. Ok not bad but you could have given me a 3/3 or a 2/3 to emphasize the mythic rarity.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, get a 1/1 prowess creature. Not bad.
Id say other than the 2/2 part for 3 mana, this card is deserving of the mythic rarity. now we are back to 4 decent mythics out of 8 reviewed cards. again 50%. again I can agree with the OP's feelings.
Next we have Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. The only dragon ive seen since ive heard about dragons being in F/R
8 for a 7 loyalty counter. Not bad. Lets continue though.
+2 and I get to burn for 3. ok ok.
-X I get to exile each permamanent for a converted mana cost thats 1 or more colors. Again not bad not bad.
-10 I get to buffer my game for the number of 7 cards drawn, 7 life, and 7 permanents onto the battlefield.
All of this last effect is great, other than the lifegain. 7 life? thats it? not 10? not 7 times the amount of cards in my hand?
Ok maybe that last suggestion is pushing it, but I just took 10 counters off and all I get is 7 life? But people say you get to draw 7 cards too!
Now I potentially get to have to discard cards I might need. Its a give and take situation. But you get to put 7 permanents out, and what if I dont have any? What if I just drew into 7 cards not creatures, lands, or artifacts, or the majority arent? Seems underpowered if you ask me.
So out of 9 reviewed cards we have 4 that are decent, not EYE POPPING AMAZING, but decent, and we have an ok planeswalker.
So we are looking at 50%+ cards that deserve the mythic rarity, and 4 that dont. WHY?
Why not all of them? I know that WOTC has to balance the game, and not all mythics have gone down in history, but I do notice a trend in mythic rares ever losing their mythic-ness.
That is true, and a lot of rares could totally just be uncommons, and a lot of uncommons could just be commons. And the reverse is also true. There is no clear and obvious boundary.
Most Mythics are not designed for Spike. Again, this is intentional. Some mythic rares are going to be Vengevine and some are going to be Cast through Time. Just like some commons are Lightning Bolt and some are Canyon Minotaur.
I'm fully aware some of these cards are what they are to balance the game...but for all sakes and purposes in the rarity ranking let alone the English definition of mythic.... the Mythic rares should at the very least try to embody that. But I know I'm asking too much now
I'm fully aware some of these cards are what they are to balance the game...but for all sakes and purposes in the rarity ranking let alone the English definition of mythic.... the Mythic rares should at the very least try to embody that. But I know I'm asking too much now
It's not just about balancing the game. It's about what the fundamental purpose of the mythic rarity is. You're not asking "too much". It's not like you're asking to go 100 MPH when WotC wants to go 60 MPH; it's like you're asking to turn left when WotC wants to turn right.
That is true, and a lot of rares could totally just be uncommons, and a lot of uncommons could just be commons. And the reverse is also true. There is no clear and obvious boundary.
Most Mythics are not designed for Spike. Again, this is intentional. Some mythic rares are going to be Vengevine and some are going to be Cast through Time. Just like some commons are Lightning Bolt and some are Canyon Minotaur.
As i stated it does not mean that EVERY good card has to be mythic.
But you cant really argue against that a mythic gets an extra power boost, just to appeal to that "special" it wants to be.
I mean you cant really ignore that.
If a card has a complex effect or just a wacky one, like Cast through Time, thats a perfect rare, as the effect is not really good in limited, you dont want to see that card often.
If they wanted Cast through Time could also be just a uncommon, if it "somehow" would be a viable strategy to build a deck for it in LIMITED, make it matter at least somehow.
As it is, that kind of card is a good rare, its not expensive nor will it matter in constructed (most of the time at least) , but it is a jonny card with potential to build around a deck.
However, for stuff like Lightning Bolt, these where in the past traditional commons. Basic cards, just some burn and removal.
If it has a 2 for 1 trade, they made them at least uncommon (as they learned from what a "common" 2 for 1 makes in Limited). Thats the reason, removal that trades 2 for 1 or better, make it at least uncommon for limited.
And now, they even got further. They want to make common removal more restrictive, more expensive, for limited. Yes, they care for limited with this decisions. We dont really get many "common" removal spells that are efficient in Limited, right now we are happy to get a Lightning Strike and it becomes a very high pick allready and pretty much the best red common right away.
Stuff like Lightning Bolt at uncommon ? Would work in todays standards, as its pretty damn efficient, but still, it would feel "bad" at an uncommon, misplaced.
Could you make it "rare" ? Ofcourse you could, its really good in constructed, but WHY ? Why would you make a basic spell like this a rare ? Theres no reason beside a cheap cash-grab, thats what Yu-Gi-Oh or some other games can do, but magic avoided this.
Magic isnt perfect in its rarity , and we will get good cards among each rarity.
But theres absolute no ground to not see the blatant power upgrade a mythic gets, you just put MORE stuff and MORE abilities on it.
If this abilities actual "matter" in the context of a metagame is an entirely different story.
But in general, if we just have a good rare, slap an extra ability on it, or reduce its cost to push it harder, an easy rarity upgrade, thats what WotC clearly did for a bunch of the mythics in this set, its hard to not see that.
For creatures this is easier than for spells.
Stuff like Siege Rhino really should not be common. That would simply be stupid, it would just ruin limited balance (and it becomes worse if we try to "fix" that by making more such mistakes).
That all said, rarity still has "guidelines" , but WotC breaks them here and there, which is surprising and keeps the game fresh, especially in view of the Limited format, when a uncommon might be the actual "best" card, and not a mythic rare.
How is this thread not a rant about the power levels of FRF cards? Some Mythics are bad, some are good. Look at last season, the most dominant and pervasive card in standard was Mutavault, a rare. The next most dominant cards were Polukranos, Revelation, Pack Rat, Master and Thassa, Thoughtseize, Stormbreath Dragon, Underworld Connection, Supreme Verdict, and the respective planeswalkers in those decks. Seems like a good mix of effective rares and mythics.
This standard we have the Constellation twins, seige rhino, Sidisi, Hornet Queen, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Ascendancy, Hordeling Outburst, Hero of Iroas, Ordeal of Thassa, Rabblemaster, courser and caryatid, stormbreath dragon, sarkhan. I fully realized I didn't mention every played rare and mythic but I feel these are the most dominant cards in the game currently. Definitely appears that Mythics are becoming unplayable. On one hand we don't want staple mythics pricing people out of the game, on the other hand why do we even have mythics when almost all of them suck? Mythic slot does kind of seem like the slot for overpowered, overcosted cards that can't physically see constructed play. They should really take a hard look at the game and see if mythic rarity even serves a purpose at this point.
I'm fully aware some of these cards are what they are to balance the game...but for all sakes and purposes in the rarity ranking let alone the English definition of mythic.... the Mythic rares should at the very least try to embody that. But I know I'm asking too much now
Ugin's Nexus is Mythical regardless of whether it is a good card or not.
Planeswalkers are always Mythics.
Etc.
Most of them fit the "English" definition of Mythic.
again 5 cost for a 4/4. what is with these high mana costs. I can get a 1/1 for 1 mana. a 2/2 for 1 or 2 mana. a 3/3 for 3 mana....etc... maybe not in standard necessarily, but shouldnt a MYTHIC rare stand the tests of time? and go down in history as something MYTHIC? LEGENDARY? something that makes me go yea, that was a good card. Everyone knows JTMS, but will everyone know Whisperwood Elemental in 5 years? I highly doubt that.
There are only 34 cards in the game that are 5/5 for 5, and 10 of those require three or more colored mana. Complaining that a high-cost creature doesn't have equally high P/T is silly.
All this is is a level up creature. With ok abilities. Nothing Id wanna brag about. Easily burned. Worth the mythic rating? Hell no.
This is a new Figure of Destiny, which is good enough to be run in non-rotating formats. Warden isn't quite as good as FoD, in my opinion, but don't dismiss him out of hand.
2 mana for a 2/2. Now we are talking, though maybe for a 3/3 would be more mythic sounding. Lifelink, hey look at that. Not bad. lets continue.
Instant and socery spells you control have lifelink, dafuq? I have seen alot of talk and debate about this. If I manifest a instant or sorcery spell as a 2/2 does it have lifelink? but how would that be possible if i dont control an instant or sorcery spell, because I control a 2/2 creature instead?
Maybe I can burn you and get life out of it? Maybe this is a troll card. Hell if I know.
The next time you cast an instant or sorcery spell, when it resolved put it back in to your hand. Now we are talking. This reminds me of buyback, or the Unhinged card Stop That somewhat. But this effect cost 4 mana in addition to the mana of the spell we cast. Similar to buyback. But that will make this card a high target for removal or burn etc. So wouldnt we want to truly make this mythic by bumping it to a 2/4 at the very least, maybe a 2/5?
Good card but the low toughness given its abilities makes me see this card as a Rare, not mythic. Now we have 3 good mythics out of 7 cards.
Soulfire is bonkers. If it didn't have three-color color identity, I would be shocked if it didn't hit the EDH ban list; as is, I simply won't be surprised if it does hit the list. Probably not as good in Standard with fewer unfair spells, but Soulfire is definitely worth the mythic rarity.
And granting lifelink to spells isn't confusing at all. If the spell deals damage, you gain life. That's how lifelink works.
Next we have Ugin, the Spirit Dragon...Seems underpowered if you ask me.
/em spittake
WHAT?!
Ugin is far and away from "underpowered". You're also super hung-up on creatures having the same P/T as their CMC, which is silly. People are clamoring to get Narset banned in EDH, and she's a 3/2 for 6. The best creatures rarely earn that status due to their P/T ratings.
Problem i see with mythics and its been said before is that they are designed to be flashy like pws, a dragon or a demon or an angel or something weird like lich's mirror not so much to finish games. i think around zendikar and scars the mythics became more uber powerful and seemed more necessary like Jace, lotus cobra, mox opal, the sword cycle, and less flashy and lately they're being more of the flashy kind, some will be playable this set to me and also khans and most of theros the mythics are going to be amazing in EDH little impact on standard and some will find their place in eternal formats.
So in short mythics get the appeal of being an amazing card everyone will play but really they are mythic for the lmited format so that everyone doesnt have a brutal hordemaster which is going to be most powerful in limited and is just as powerful as hellrider which was a rare in a better color and it could kill pws unlike hordemaster
Problem i see with mythics and its been said before is that they are designed to be flashy like pws, a dragon or a demon or an angel or something weird like lich's mirror not so much to finish games. i think around zendikar and scars the mythics became more uber powerful and seemed more necessary like Jace, lotus cobra, mox opal, the sword cycle, and less flashy and lately they're being more of the flashy kind, some will be playable this set to me and also khans and most of theros the mythics are going to be amazing in EDH little impact on standard and some will find their place in eternal formats.
So in short mythics get the appeal of being an amazing card everyone will play but really they are mythic for the lmited format so that everyone doesnt have a brutal hordemaster which is going to be most powerful in limited and is just as powerful as hellrider which was a rare in a better color and it could kill pws unlike hordemaster
Problem i see with mythics and its been said before is that they are designed to be flashy like pws, a dragon or a demon or an angel or something weird like lich's mirror not so much to finish games. i think around zendikar and scars the mythics became more uber powerful and seemed more necessary like Jace, lotus cobra, mox opal, the sword cycle, and less flashy and lately they're being more of the flashy kind, some will be playable this set to me and also khans and most of theros the mythics are going to be amazing in EDH little impact on standard and some will find their place in eternal formats.
So in short mythics get the appeal of being an amazing card everyone will play but really they are mythic for the lmited format so that everyone doesnt have a brutal hordemaster which is going to be most powerful in limited and is just as powerful as hellrider which was a rare in a better color and it could kill pws unlike hordemaster
So I agree then. I see that mythics in MTG are unlike rares in other TCGs then. But still doesnt that look badat some point from a consumer perspective versus the will of the designers?
I'm fully aware some of these cards are what they are to balance the game...but for all sakes and purposes in the rarity ranking let alone the English definition of mythic.... the Mythic rares should at the very least try to embody that. But I know I'm asking too much now
Stop using the standard English definition of the term. That's not how Wizards has used it, and what you're wanting is never what they've intended mythic rarity to encompass. It's not that you're asking too much, but that you're asking for something entirely different from what they've defined as the purpose of mythic rarity. The vast majority of mythics (and all cards really), have always been unplayable outside of limited. That's just the nature of the game design and the necessity to balance limited play and constructed simultaneously while now also taking EDH into consideration.
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I'm fully aware some of these cards are what they are to balance the game...but for all sakes and purposes in the rarity ranking let alone the English definition of mythic.... the Mythic rares should at the very least try to embody that. But I know I'm asking too much now
Stop using the standard English definition of the term. That's not how Wizards has used it, and what you're wanting is never what they've intended mythic rarity to encompass. It's not that you're asking too much, but that you're asking for something entirely different from what they've defined as the purpose of mythic rarity. The vast majority of mythics (and all cards really), have always been unplayable outside of limited. That's just the nature of the game design and the necessity to balance limited play and constructed simultaneously while now also taking EDH into consideration.
While I agree with you isn't the essence of language to communicate an idea? So how is using a word that means a variety of legendary type ideas for something other than what the word is being used for an ok thing? How bout we replace the word creatures with animals? Even though they mean the same thing in some context they irrefutably mean different things. Or we can replace the word rules with the word guides. Same situation. So when I see the word mythic, regardless of how wotc sees mythics, wotc is recognizing the words meaning to an extent at the very least but how they are portraying mythics are anything but mythic. For all technicalities mythics are not truly mythic and you can only overlook their use for mythic if we overlook the purpose of communication. Just sayin
Being a black mage I really only care about Brutal Hordechief and Ghastly Conscription. The Hordechief isn't bad, I just wish he had one more toughness. That's really it, as I can't play 4 mana for a creature that has no immediate board impact, that will eat a bolt before my first combat with him. Ghastly Conscription is just terrible. Why they didn't give this card delve I will never know. It maybe a fringe EDH playable card, but I wouldn't touch it in standard, modern, or legacy.
And this, ladies and gentleman, is why it's good most people that post here aren't designers at Wizards.
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This is a joke, right? a 3/5 flyer for 3 mana? a 5 toughness creature is "easily burned"?
...looking at the rest of the post, if it is a joke, he's pretty dedicated to it.
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Many reasons were created for having mythics, but I'll list two of them: 1. Mythics were created for big, flashy cards. 2. Balance limited.
"shouldnt a MYTHIC rare stand the tests of time? and go down in history as something MYTHIC? LEGENDARY? something that makes me go yea, that was a good card."
Categorically no. That is not now, nor has it ever been the purpose of the Mythic rarity.
You paid 5 mana for a 2/2 AND took a big removal spell from your opponents hand!
And I hope you just wanted to illustrate your point with the mana costs you proposed in your first post? Because some of them would break constructed formats in half. For example - your proposal to make the monastery mentor a 3 toughness creatur and one single instant would suddenly save him from a bolt in eternal formats - the power boost he would receive that way would by far to high (even now I think he is bonkers in legacy/vintage, because there you can get immediate value from him with some 0 mana spells)
For a fair deal they have some form of "mythic" they intentionally push a little bit more than they do for ordinary rare.
They arent "that" fair with it. They know they have to push a mythic if the card isnt flashy otherwise.
Vengevine for example, its 4/3 haste for 2GG , it comes for free from the grave and its "green" (not black, nor multicolor) ; they clearly pushed it, to make sure it sees play. The card would work without haste, but they badly wanted it to have haste, to make it "matter".
They do that often.
If they want the card to feel special for spike, they reduce cost, add some abilities they KNOW will matter, so the card will see play, for the power it forces.
A lot of these cards could totally be just rares. That does not mean that rares are just worse than mythic, we still get good rares no question, but if a card gets promoted to mythic, it will have some form of "upgrade" , that should be obvisious, as thats what makes it feel so "special" for a spike ; you need to look at a card and at least somehow question "is this fair ?" , and the easiest way to archive that, make a card cost 1 mana less than it would normally be.
Also, if they do something that "kinda" feels out of the color pie or try out something new, they also might do it on a mythic first, as then it feels "special" aswell.
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I could not agree more!!
Since OP brought of Jace, please do the same analysis for Worldwake. You won't find many "deserving" mythics by your standards.
Most Mythics are not designed for Spike. Again, this is intentional. Some mythic rares are going to be Vengevine and some are going to be Cast through Time. Just like some commons are Lightning Bolt and some are Canyon Minotaur.
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As i stated it does not mean that EVERY good card has to be mythic.
But you cant really argue against that a mythic gets an extra power boost, just to appeal to that "special" it wants to be.
I mean you cant really ignore that.
If a card has a complex effect or just a wacky one, like Cast through Time, thats a perfect rare, as the effect is not really good in limited, you dont want to see that card often.
If they wanted Cast through Time could also be just a uncommon, if it "somehow" would be a viable strategy to build a deck for it in LIMITED, make it matter at least somehow.
As it is, that kind of card is a good rare, its not expensive nor will it matter in constructed (most of the time at least) , but it is a jonny card with potential to build around a deck.
However, for stuff like Lightning Bolt, these where in the past traditional commons. Basic cards, just some burn and removal.
If it has a 2 for 1 trade, they made them at least uncommon (as they learned from what a "common" 2 for 1 makes in Limited). Thats the reason, removal that trades 2 for 1 or better, make it at least uncommon for limited.
And now, they even got further. They want to make common removal more restrictive, more expensive, for limited. Yes, they care for limited with this decisions. We dont really get many "common" removal spells that are efficient in Limited, right now we are happy to get a Lightning Strike and it becomes a very high pick allready and pretty much the best red common right away.
Stuff like Lightning Bolt at uncommon ? Would work in todays standards, as its pretty damn efficient, but still, it would feel "bad" at an uncommon, misplaced.
Could you make it "rare" ? Ofcourse you could, its really good in constructed, but WHY ? Why would you make a basic spell like this a rare ? Theres no reason beside a cheap cash-grab, thats what Yu-Gi-Oh or some other games can do, but magic avoided this.
Magic isnt perfect in its rarity , and we will get good cards among each rarity.
But theres absolute no ground to not see the blatant power upgrade a mythic gets, you just put MORE stuff and MORE abilities on it.
If this abilities actual "matter" in the context of a metagame is an entirely different story.
But in general, if we just have a good rare, slap an extra ability on it, or reduce its cost to push it harder, an easy rarity upgrade, thats what WotC clearly did for a bunch of the mythics in this set, its hard to not see that.
For creatures this is easier than for spells.
Stuff like Siege Rhino really should not be common. That would simply be stupid, it would just ruin limited balance (and it becomes worse if we try to "fix" that by making more such mistakes).
That all said, rarity still has "guidelines" , but WotC breaks them here and there, which is surprising and keeps the game fresh, especially in view of the Limited format, when a uncommon might be the actual "best" card, and not a mythic rare.
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This standard we have the Constellation twins, seige rhino, Sidisi, Hornet Queen, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Ascendancy, Hordeling Outburst, Hero of Iroas, Ordeal of Thassa, Rabblemaster, courser and caryatid, stormbreath dragon, sarkhan. I fully realized I didn't mention every played rare and mythic but I feel these are the most dominant cards in the game currently. Definitely appears that Mythics are becoming unplayable. On one hand we don't want staple mythics pricing people out of the game, on the other hand why do we even have mythics when almost all of them suck? Mythic slot does kind of seem like the slot for overpowered, overcosted cards that can't physically see constructed play. They should really take a hard look at the game and see if mythic rarity even serves a purpose at this point.
Ugin's Nexus is Mythical regardless of whether it is a good card or not.
Planeswalkers are always Mythics.
Etc.
Most of them fit the "English" definition of Mythic.
This is a new Figure of Destiny, which is good enough to be run in non-rotating formats. Warden isn't quite as good as FoD, in my opinion, but don't dismiss him out of hand.
Soulfire is bonkers. If it didn't have three-color color identity, I would be shocked if it didn't hit the EDH ban list; as is, I simply won't be surprised if it does hit the list. Probably not as good in Standard with fewer unfair spells, but Soulfire is definitely worth the mythic rarity.
And granting lifelink to spells isn't confusing at all. If the spell deals damage, you gain life. That's how lifelink works.
/em spittake
WHAT?!
Ugin is far and away from "underpowered". You're also super hung-up on creatures having the same P/T as their CMC, which is silly. People are clamoring to get Narset banned in EDH, and she's a 3/2 for 6. The best creatures rarely earn that status due to their P/T ratings.
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So in short mythics get the appeal of being an amazing card everyone will play but really they are mythic for the lmited format so that everyone doesnt have a brutal hordemaster which is going to be most powerful in limited and is just as powerful as hellrider which was a rare in a better color and it could kill pws unlike hordemaster
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So I agree then. I see that mythics in MTG are unlike rares in other TCGs then. But still doesnt that look badat some point from a consumer perspective versus the will of the designers?
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Stop using the standard English definition of the term. That's not how Wizards has used it, and what you're wanting is never what they've intended mythic rarity to encompass. It's not that you're asking too much, but that you're asking for something entirely different from what they've defined as the purpose of mythic rarity. The vast majority of mythics (and all cards really), have always been unplayable outside of limited. That's just the nature of the game design and the necessity to balance limited play and constructed simultaneously while now also taking EDH into consideration.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
While I agree with you isn't the essence of language to communicate an idea? So how is using a word that means a variety of legendary type ideas for something other than what the word is being used for an ok thing? How bout we replace the word creatures with animals? Even though they mean the same thing in some context they irrefutably mean different things. Or we can replace the word rules with the word guides. Same situation. So when I see the word mythic, regardless of how wotc sees mythics, wotc is recognizing the words meaning to an extent at the very least but how they are portraying mythics are anything but mythic. For all technicalities mythics are not truly mythic and you can only overlook their use for mythic if we overlook the purpose of communication. Just sayin
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