Is anyone irritated by the newly spoiled card, Torrent Elemental? What's up with all these newer cards pulling things from exile? I know I'm not alone when I say exile should–and historically has been–a zone full of non-interaction. It should not function as a second graveyard, where things that are "path'd" can be returned.
Torrent Elemental3UU
Creature - Elemental
Flying
Whenever Torrent Elemental attacks,
tap all creatures defending player
controls.
3(B/G)(B/G): Return
Torrent Elemental from exile to the
battlefield tapped. Activate this
ability only any time you could
cast a sorcery.
I'm kinda okay with it because it's not spectacularly competitive but is a cool effect pair with delve.IF they're gonna ever have that effect, then now is the time to do it. I guess I'd be much more offended if it was a stronger card.
This is not a new trend, but you're seeing select cards interact with the "removed from game" zone. We've had it since Arabian Nights' Ring of Ma'rûf -- so let's put that into perspective. The Judgment "wish" cycle changed how powerful/consistent "removed from game" zone can be. Recently, we've had the blue flyer who combos with Food Chain. That dude is particularly annoying and so is this new card (assuming it's real) because their recursion is infinite. I disapprove of this particular "even if it's removed from the game it can just come back" design space...but let's not look at "cards can come from RFG zone" as "new".
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10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Riftsweeper and Pull from Eternity existed before the term exile, so I have a hard time considering them "relatively new". Also it seems silly in general to have a zone that you are unable to interact with.
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Evil is even, truth is an odd number, and death is a full stop.
Personally i wish they would create more cards with similar effects. Exile has been becoming so prevalent that it's becoming common. With the whole command zone being a thing now, I'd say that more and more things like this will be coming. The fact is there is really only so much that can be done with this game, and this seems to me the next logical step on the further elaboration of mechanics.
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The answer is purple because ice cream has no bones.
Annoyed with cards that interact with exiled stuff? You must absolutely hate planeswalkers then. Interacting with exiled stuff is not close to new and is rarely used.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
One word, Riftsweeper. Its not a new idea. Its fine in small amounts. They are usually narrow cards needed to battle certain decks.
Riftsweeper and Runic Repeition are all relatively new cards.
Riftsweeper is from Timespiral. If you consider that relatively new, okay...
I've played since UL, so I guess it's new-ish to me. I complained about Riftsweeper and Misthollow when they came out, too. But people were saying that Misthollow was a once-in-a-lifetime thing, and that is clearly not the case now that they show they're comfortable with turning exile into a second graveyard.
Is anyone irritated by the newly spoiled card, Torrent Elemental? What's up with all these newer cards pulling things from exile? I know I'm not alone when I say exile should–and historically has been–a zone full of non-interaction. It should not function as a second graveyard, where things that are "path'd" can be returned.
First, not an 'new' thing just very very rare because MaRo dislikes touching the exile zone.
Secondly the exile zone no longer means removal from the game, it stopped meaning that years ago. "406.1. The exile zone is essentially a holding area for objects. Some spells and abilities exile an object without any way to return that object to another zone. Other spells and abilities exile an object only temporarily."
Holding area, it serves no flavorful purpose but to screw reanimation decks. Graveyard hate is so strong that there are 0cmc cards that do it, Bojuka Bog.
I for one like the idea of a zone that can't be harmed by spells, a treasure trove or vault for my spells. Discard screws hands, exiling screws graveyards. I would like for the ability to play lands from exile, like Endless Horizons.
I'm completely fine with how exile is defined. My problem is that it has become more than the aforementioned definition. It is not a holding zone for objects anymore, but rather a graveyard that is harder to destroy and recur from.
Compare to Yugioh, if you want a real laugh. Entire decks resolved around putting stuff in their removed-from-game zone and then pulling them all back in one go, turning the removed-from-game zone into a second or third battleground. Heck, at one point it was easier to win from there as it was to win from the graveyard.
Magic, once every while, does something with pulling stuff back from Exile. It's rare that it happens, and when it does, it's usually not even particulary strong (See: Misthollow Griffin). It works because of them doing it so rarely, making sure it won't ever be like Yugiohs "removed from game", but rather a zone that still is exceptionally hard to interact with, and will likely never become the backbone of something truly format defining.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Is anyone irritated by the newly spoiled card, Torrent Elemental? What's up with all these newer cards pulling things from exile? I know I'm not alone when I say exile should–and historically has been–a zone full of non-interaction. It should not function as a second graveyard, where things that are "path'd" can be returned.
Torrent Elemental3UU
Creature - Elemental
Flying
Whenever Torrent Elemental attacks,
tap all creatures defending player
controls.
3(B/G)(B/G): Return
Torrent Elemental from exile to the
battlefield tapped. Activate this
ability only any time you could
cast a sorcery.
you must be thinking of the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone.
The exile zone itself is relatively new. Previously it was called the the "removed from game zone" prior to Magic 2010. It was the same zone your Sideboard is in as well as any other card outside the game.
Historically, there have been several cards that interact with it that aren't involved with also exiling the card in the first place:
However, when the exile zone was carved out in Magic 2010, only Riftsweeper and Pull From Eternity had their card text updated to refer to the exile zone. This probably has to do with the fact that the cards explicitly refer to a "face-up card that's removed from the game" instead of a "card from outside the game."
Effects which restart the game also affect the Exile zone. Karn Liberated's ability needs to explicitly override the general rule for exiled cards for this reason.
Since Tenth Edition, cards exiled from subgames also get returned to the main game. The original Shaharazad decks often involved killing people by milling them and removing their graveyard with Tormod's Crypt before the subgame ends or a new subgame begins. The card is still banned because games still take way too long, but that deck was completely miserable to play against.
Riftsweeper and Pull from Eternity existed before the term exile, so I have a hard time considering them "relatively new". Also it seems silly in general to have a zone that you are unable to interact with.
The "removed from the game" terminology seemed to imply that it was meant to be...outside of the game. And it makes sense that you are unable to interact with something outside of the game. I don't see why it is silly.
Even Mark Rosewater-the most adamant defender of the exile zone in R&D-is fine with this card. He said on Tumblr that they all sat down and decided it is perfectly fine for some cards to bring themselves back from exile.
Edit: if you want to be mad at a card in standard, be mad at Hornet Queen who's very existence will likely discourage people from playing the Dragons while "Dragons of Tarkir" will be in standard.
Even Mark Rosewater-the most adamant defender of the exile zone in R&D-is fine with this card. He said on Tumblr that they all sat down and decided it is perfectly fine for some cards to bring themselves back from exile.
Edit: if you want to be mad at a card in standard, be mad at Hornet Queen who's very existence will likely discourage people from playing the Dragons while "Dragons of Tarkir" will be in standard.
Maybe the presence of Hornet Queen is meant to offset the unspoiled Emrakul reprint. =D
Even Mark Rosewater-the most adamant defender of the exile zone in R&D-is fine with this card. He said on Tumblr that they all sat down and decided it is perfectly fine for some cards to bring themselves back from exile.
Edit: if you want to be mad at a card in standard, be mad at Hornet Queen who's very existence will likely discourage people from playing the Dragons while "Dragons of Tarkir" will be in standard.
Maybe the presence of Hornet Queen is meant to offset the unspoiled Emrakul reprint. =D
I hope you are wrong... The only place Emrakul should be reprinted is in Modern Masters 2015.
Creature - Elemental
Flying
Whenever Torrent Elemental attacks,
tap all creatures defending player
controls.
3(B/G)(B/G): Return
Torrent Elemental from exile to the
battlefield tapped. Activate this
ability only any time you could
cast a sorcery.
Riftsweeper is from Timespiral. If you consider that relatively new, okay...
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Currently Playing:
Retired
AWOL
So far, no cards interact with stuff put in the 'absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever' zone.
I've played since UL, so I guess it's new-ish to me. I complained about Riftsweeper and Misthollow when they came out, too. But people were saying that Misthollow was a once-in-a-lifetime thing, and that is clearly not the case now that they show they're comfortable with turning exile into a second graveyard.
I'm completely fine with how exile is defined. My problem is that it has become more than the aforementioned definition. It is not a holding zone for objects anymore, but rather a graveyard that is harder to destroy and recur from.
Magic, once every while, does something with pulling stuff back from Exile. It's rare that it happens, and when it does, it's usually not even particulary strong (See: Misthollow Griffin). It works because of them doing it so rarely, making sure it won't ever be like Yugiohs "removed from game", but rather a zone that still is exceptionally hard to interact with, and will likely never become the backbone of something truly format defining.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
you must be thinking of the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone.
It's got the new frame, therefore, it's new
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I disagree with that thinking, but to each their own.
Historically, there have been several cards that interact with it that aren't involved with also exiling the card in the first place:
That last one is from Arabian Nights.
However, when the exile zone was carved out in Magic 2010, only Riftsweeper and Pull From Eternity had their card text updated to refer to the exile zone. This probably has to do with the fact that the cards explicitly refer to a "face-up card that's removed from the game" instead of a "card from outside the game."
Effects which restart the game also affect the Exile zone. Karn Liberated's ability needs to explicitly override the general rule for exiled cards for this reason.
Since Tenth Edition, cards exiled from subgames also get returned to the main game. The original Shaharazad decks often involved killing people by milling them and removing their graveyard with Tormod's Crypt before the subgame ends or a new subgame begins. The card is still banned because games still take way too long, but that deck was completely miserable to play against.
Edit: if you want to be mad at a card in standard, be mad at Hornet Queen who's very existence will likely discourage people from playing the Dragons while "Dragons of Tarkir" will be in standard.
i still think its even more odd to give green and black that creature, should really be multicolor and not hybrid
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Maybe the presence of Hornet Queen is meant to offset the unspoiled Emrakul reprint. =D
I hope you are wrong... The only place Emrakul should be reprinted is in Modern Masters 2015.
Riftsweeper is almost 10 years old. That isn't relatively new. That is almost half of Magic's existence ago.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.