One solution that can satisfy the "optimizer" gene is to build decks with some strange goal in mind, and then optimize // tune them to your liking from there. Example could be to optimize a cat deck, or build a deck that brings players to exactly one life EVERY GAME, or build a deck with pauper rules, or an general-less EDH deck that can duel your friends non-edh decks, or a deck that kills itself at instant speed in response to being attacked. Something odd that isn't winning, but IS difficult to build // tune, and make it work, obsess over it, whatever.
There are 2 formats that level the playing field almost perfectly:
Standard Pauper - Have a pauper tournament with your friends. Anyone can get their hands on the best standard commons cheaply but if you're a spike and as good as you say you are, you'll still likely win a lot because when everyone has equal access to the same cards, skilled play and deckbuilding are highly rewarded. Beating your casual friends at Standard Pauper when you all have essentially the same card pool is a much greater accomplishment and indicator of skill than crushing their 80 card mill deck with Ari Lax's Abzan list.
Booster Draft (or Sealed Deck) - These formats also reward skill and also build your friends' card pools to help make them more competitive. This will also give your friends additional deck building practice to improve abilities of the people you have to play against. Finally, these limited formats are great because there is always the chance that one of your friends will just get lucky and open a couple of awesome rares and truly give you a run for your money, which it sounds like you crave. If your best pull is a Master of Pearls while one of your friends has a Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Duneblast, and a Hooded Hydra (yeah right!), you won't have to feel like a spiky jerk when you play them.
but if you're a spike and as good as you say you are
I'm in all honesty not that great of a player myself.
My self confidence, and my social anxieties can both mess with me quite a bit. I'll often make mistakes (pass my turn before making sure there's nothing I'm forgetting to play or activate for example) just cause I get so damn nervous and so I start to rush myself.
And I can get too cocky. I wish I wasn't this way...but it's a problem I've always had with this game. Pretty much since day 1. And that cockiness can just completely blind me.
It's just like with computers though. My family and friends all think I'm pretty damn good with computers. I'm able to keep all of theirs running smoothly and I'm the first person they call when something goes wrong.
But you put me in a room with a few true techies...engineers, or programmers or anything like that...and you'll VERY quickly discover that I don't know jack about computers when it comes down to it.
It only appears that way because of the people I'm surrounded by.
I might appear to be a decent magic player...cause my deck dominates the hell out of my local group's decks.
But as soon as I step foot into my LGS for a tournament (even a casual tourney like a FNM)...and it's likely that me and my deck wont perform nearly as well...and I wont be crushing anyone. If I do get some wins...it'll be dam hard fought. I didn't dominate for the win...I struggled and had to not only fight through my opponent...but fight my own inadequacies to get to that win.
...And yeah, I def. want to start doing more drafts with them. Some of the funnest times I've had in this game was just a few weeks ago in a 3 man draft (lol). I got crushed (we only had time for 1 game /sad)...but I didn't even care. I just had a blast cracking packs, picking my cards, and building my deck. Crazy you mention Sorin too...haha cause my friend pulled it that draft.
It sounds like you really really need to go play some competitive events and get stomped around yourself for a while, otherwise you're no different from your friends. You're serious about wanting to have good decks and improve yourself as a player. Beating the same casuals over and over and over again doesn't help with that. When you start having your face stomped regularly, then you know you're in the right playgroup for improving your own skills and with your personality, that's where you need to be. PLaying against much better players and decks gives you an ability to measure your own skills....when you start winning more often, then you'll know you've made improvements as a deckbuilder and a player. More experienced players also know the rules much better, and can not only tell you how something happens, but WHY it happens that way. My playgroup is all made of very good players and an L1 judge, and every now and then we wind up in a weird situation where no one has an answer. We pause the game and google it. If that doesn't turn up anything, then we make the best decision we can and post it in the rules forum here later till we learn if we made the right ruling or what it should have been so that everyone learns.
Your friends are casuals. They might always be casuals. There's nothing wrong with casuals, but you shouldn't be playing games with them to fulfill your own Magic desires. When you play with them, your purpose should shift from winning to educating. You don't have to be direct or blunt about the purpose of games with them, but you can throw subtle hints at how they might improve their decks. If a ruling comes up that's contested, someone should pause the game, pull out a smartphone, and research it. If you can't find an answer, let your friends decide the answer, even if you don't agree with it, and post it in the rules forum. When you learn the correct answer you come back to them next time and say "so, you remember the whole weird thing we had last week? Turns out here's the answer...."
TLDR: Find another playgroup to release your competitive nature. When playing with them, you should assume the role of a student until you're a suitable sparring partner. When sitting down at the kitchen table, you should assume the role of teacher, helping the casuals become better sparring partners for you and each other. If they improve enough, some may want to up their game and join you at FNMs eventually when they become more comfortable with their play abilities. The same thing that holds you back from serious competition is the thing holding them back from competition- they know they're not good enough; the difference is that they don't care and you do.
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EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
A solution to this problem that I've found works really well without compromising what makes you a spike is to focus on building theme decks and tribal decks from non competitive tribes, then seeing how hard you can push them. Try to make the sickest dwarf or homarid deck imaginable. Make a finely tuned gruul deck using only watermarked cards. Make a deck with only cards from a shard of alara or a clan of tarkir. You still get to push it as hard as you can within the restraints, and it can make you better at deck building by forcing you to identify what the deck wants to do rather than what you want to do. This is an important skill for competitive, as sometimes the best deck to play isn't one that fits your preferred playstyle, an d you need to be able to get fully on board with what the deck Is supposed to do without watering it down to fit your own style (adding too much removal to aggro for instance)
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
So I played my friends again tonight.
Like I said...it's just not fun. I feel mean and just lame for playing my deck vs. them.
But damn it LOVE my deck. And I'm the kind of guy who likes to just play 1 deck and then play it over and over, slowly tweaking it here and there as needed...till I come to a list that I'm completely happy with.
I don't get bored with my decks. I can see myself playing this deck exclusively in modern for many, many months to come...and I'd never tire of it. It's just the way I am (where my friends enjoy having a variety of decks to play and they rotate their decks almost every game).
Well 3 games in and 1 of my friends was getting quite upset. I don't blame him...it's almost like I'm cheating at this point. Another was ready to head to bed (we were playing at her house). My 3rd friend who was there...he's all for me playing the deck...in fact he encourages it. He's the one that plays a very shifty/casual mill deck...he's never once shown any signs of being upset with my playing cut throat cards.
So I gave in. Put my deck away, and asked one of my friends if I could play his deck.
It was okay...and the games were MUCH more even from that point on...but I didn't enjoy it. The first deck I played I had NOTHING to play for the first 5 turns...and I mean that was fine cause we were playing 4 player multiplayer...and for the most part none of them were playing anything major before turn 5 or 6...but man...it just left me wanting my dang deck back.
A few games later and another borrowed deck...and again, I didn't have anything to play...but only it took me till turn 6 to draw into something I could play this time. It was an enchant creature deck...and the whole point was to put out a creature, then load it up with tons of enchantments and go for the kill. And it did work...I ended the game with something like a 50/50 creature with lifelink, trample, hexproof...and protection from creatures.
But something just felt off about the deck to me. It was cool...and I do gotta admit it was fun piecing together this massively monstrous creature...but it just didn't feel nearly fast enough, didn't have any way of recovering if my creature died somehow (only creature I drew the entire game)...and it just felt clunky. Cool...but clunky.
I went through the deck after the game...the cheapest creature he was playing was at 4 CMC...and he was only playing 12 creatures.
Again...it just left me feeling bitter and sad and frustrated cause I want to play my deck. My deck is never waiting around doing nothing for the first 4-6 turns. My deck aims to finish most games by then...my deck doesn't feel clunky. It feels like a dam well oiled machine (it's a birthing pod deck).
I don't think I'll be able to continue to play their decks for long. I've got too much invested in my deck, and it just way too enjoyable to play for me to be pushing it to the side.
I may be done playing magic with the group here before long. We'll still be friends...I'll just stop playing magic with them. And that's fine...they'll still have each other to play with.
And I'm hoping that I'll find stronger competition at my local store. I've yet to step foot in the store to play some games...lol I'm quite nervous...but I do plan on going in sometime early this week to meet some of the regulars and hopefully get some games in.
If nothing else, I wouldn't mind getting a sense of some of the possible decks I'll be facing for the modern FNM coming up this friday.
Oh I will mention that I opened up and told my group about my frustrations...explained to them that I purposely designed my deck to be as vicious as possible, as efficient as possible and as cut throat as I could make it. That as well as it's performed over the last couple of weekends...that I've invested another $200+ into it and that the cards should be here by next weekend. The deck will only get even better...but that it's just not fun playing it cause they're decks are much more tuned to be casual decks.
They all agreed...and I asked for suggestions.
No one really knows quite yet.
We are all going to start putting commander decks together and start playing that though, and I told them I'll continue to play with there decks for now...and only play my deck 1 or 2 games each weekend.
It's a compromise I'm not real happy about having to make...lol I just want to play my deck every game all the time! but it'll have to do for now.
I'm SO hoping to find an outlet for my more serious side though here soon...so that I'll hopefully be able to calm down a bit and be more casual with this group.
Right now I'm still feeling quite frustrated about it.
Thanks again for everything guys
More then anything it just feels good to vent you know?
There are many different options for you here:
1. Borrow a friend's deck when playing
2. Play a different variant such as commander, planechase, archenemy, etc.
3. Just use your competitive decks and whoop em
4. Challenge yourself to build a deck around a strange and unique card you have a preference for. This would lead to a fun deck that isn't truly competitive.
5. Maybe after you prove your the superior player, offer to help them with their decks with advice. (Try not to sound like an elitist or superior)
6. Locate and visit your LGS. That will surely give you much more of a run for your money.
7. Get new friends (jk)
Personally, I can't fathom why anybody would want to continually play something but not attempt to get any better at it. "Fun" decks aren't so fun when your constantly getting stomped all the time.
I read through this thread with interest. I will preface my opinions/suggestions by stating I am most definitely NOT a spike, in fact most spikes drive me nuts:) However that doesn't make you a bad magic player or person. Suggestions as follows
1-You need to play at your local shop. Really. I have no idea how good or bad you really are, but you'll most likely find out there. You need actual competition, it will satisfy you far more to play with others who are serious about the game. Not all stores are necessarily competitive so you need to check them out.
2-Your friends also need to check out the lgs, it will make them better players also. I know my local store has a casual night aimed at newer players, which encourages them to learn. Speaking of which....
3-Spikes are usually terrible magic teachers. No patience and understanding at all. At the local store your friends may find a more patient and helpful teacher:)) That's me at my store, I have a beginner friendly deck to play against newbies and help with deck tech. After running through a few games with my newbie deck, I run my standard deck against them. After 4 or 5 games with them pulling no mana, I pull their 80 card deck apart to find it has 17 land. Once I explain that my deck that killed them has 24, they are usually willing to make changes with my help. People are often much more open to changes when it isn't friends/family making them.
4-Go to tournaments! You really, really need it. Even if you get hammered it will make you happy to play in those environments. I think you will be more tolerant of your friends when you have another outlet for competition.
You really just need to play with more people then just your friends. Eventually you'll get so aggravated with them that it could effect your friendship. Go play with other crazy spikes and have fun.
Mary
a few weeks ago a guy came out to play with my group of friends (first time I'd met him). Him and me argued on rule and things got a bit heated...and I hadn't seen him since.
He also disappointed me that night because I was less then impressed with his deck builds.
Haven't seen him since.
Until tonight.
And man...I freaking love the guy now! haha
Man he's vicious. And he's mean about it! And he's like a robot...uncaring, unforgetting and automatic.
He was playing a pretty sick (legacy by the looks of it) control deck filled to the prim with countermagic. 2 of my friends were visually getting annoyed as heck with the deck. I guess it's not fun when your opponent is countering every spell that has any kind of meaning...lol.
But I loved it! Every time he'd cast a counter on a spell I'd play...my inner vicious side just grinned.
FINALLY someone who's willing to play "mean" not fun to play against cards. And I loved ever bit of it!
His deck looked to be like the kind of deck that could shut me down. And I don't know why...but that excites me. It excites me to play against a deck that is incredibly difficult for me to face...a constant uphill battle. I so freaking crave that right now! And I think he can provide it!
I still think his decks could be better tuned...but dang, at least now I know he's got some mean ones.
So I told him I'd love if we could start playing some 1on1 games against his decks. It was getting to late tonight to keep playing, but yeah...we'll get some games in next weekend if not sometime this week.
I don't even know why I'm typing this to be honest lol xP. I'm just pumped. Not only did him and me get to know each other better tonight, but it turns out him and me are actually quite a bit alike (both in game, and out)...and this was the first night in a long while that I actually left feeling excited and fulfilled.
Not only have I possibly made a new friend tonight...but I very well may have met someone as cut throat as I am. I can't wait to get some 1on1 games in with him!
2 of the friends I play against visually and verbally express their disinterest in anyone else playing too vicious of a deck. Been having to deal with it for the last couple of weeks.
I expressed that to this guy, and he's got the exact philosophy that I do. Isn't that the point? To win? What else would you make a deck for? You don't build decks with the intent to make it as fun as possible for you opponent. You make it to win.
Yep. I love this guy
oh...and p.s.
He doesn't hold a grudge at all! And he doesn't understand why people play "nice" lol. I don't either!!
But tonight I got some early pressure on the board in a 4 player game...and I pointed almost all of my attacks at him. I ended up taking him out early in the game. I felt guilty for doing it...because all my other friends take offense when someone guns after them.
I was surprised at this guy's reaction.
He acted as if NOTHING I did was wrong. He was just as happy and talkative after I'd gunned him down...as he was before and during the game.
But it wasn't only that...he acted as if I did the right thing. He posed the greatest threat at the table at the time...so even though I could've spread my attacks out to keep things "fair" and even...he seemed to completely understand...and agree...with me taking out the biggest threat.
It was just great.
It bugs me so much that I have to play "fair" in our multiplayer games or risk hurting someone's fillings.
Maybe he's just got an insanely good poker face...but I got NO hint at all that his feelings had been even remotely hurt.
I remember finding out that a friend I'd known a while played Magic, and played a few games just after Theros landed against her with my semi-competitive Standard Selesnya aggro deck. She was playing a Goblin deck without any of the stronger tribal effects (Warchief, Lackey or even King).
Ugh, didn't go well. She generally lost turn 6 and games were decided well before that, when I'd drop an Advent of the Wurm, ambush an attacking creature and backswing for 5.
Things changed when she used the Selesnya deck and I pulled out a different deck - a failed experiment from RTR block constructed, a Jeskai tempo deck. Games became a lot more interesting then.
twitch, will you post your decklist? I'm curious what we're dealing with there.
Its nice you found someone to challenge you. If a rules question pops up just use the power of the internet to prove your point.
EDH or Commander is a great multiplayer format. The randomness of a single card format can certainly level the playing field. It will also force them to play 100 card decks. The games are a bit slower so your friends can play the big powerful spells they seem to like.
I have the same issue. What I have done, successfully I might add. Is make a deck without rares. It becomes a challenge toke a really good deck with mostly commons. But can still be good enough to win occasionally.
Also note that when I'm playing multiplayer games and my friend's going to play his mill deck...I have to find room for a couple Loaming Shamans which makes me sad (in 1on1 games vs him, I don't have to make any changes to my deck. His deck is too slow for me to need answers to him).
I also just ordered 2 gaea's blessings yesterday I'm curious to try out against his deck in multiplayer games.
And I also replace my abrupt decays and use putrefy instead in multiplayer games...games go longer in multiplayer, and all my friends like big clunky creatures. Decay is amazing...just not vs a lot of the stuff they like to play.
It's not the same as playing in person...also not nearly as enjoyable as mtgo for me (there's just a sense of pride I get knowing that the cards I'm playing are 'mine'...physical or virtual).
But I played my deck for several hours yesterday and got to play against all sorts of great stuff. Lots of delver /sigh...(lol man that deck is tough! It's winnable, but I lost many more games then I won vs. delver...treasure cruise puts that deck way over the top!).
I also put together a BUG commander deck, and just purchased the W commander 2014 deck wizards just put out and we're going to start playing commander here soon.
I don't want to work too hard on my BUG deck too much, as there's just far too many broken cards on my wish list I could easily put into the deck...and I don't want yet another over powered deck against my friends.
Though I do think I'm going to work on my white commander deck. At least throw in some better equipment, better removal and a few equipment fetchers (stoneforge, steelshaper's gift and enlightened tutor).
But I think this deck will always remain completely beatable (I'm pretty sure if I pushed hard enough, I could make a BUG deck that was too over powered and hard to play against vs. the group of people I play).
I found exactly what I've been needing in a guy I met several years back in college. I was always so busy back then and had no deck/collection so we never got to play...but we started to play recently and have been playtesting a TON over the last couple of days for this week's upcoming modern fnm...
And I'm left completely satisfied! He's given me EVERYTHING I've been looking for in magic. He's a very good deck builder, has a HUGE collection and tons of awesome decks put together...and he doesn't make decks that are fun. He makes his decks to be as efficient and as consistent as possible. I love that.
I've been able to play so much now too. Delver, blue/white control (get to play vs. blue/white/red control tomorrow), B/W tokens, a stompy deck, infest, a damn nasty vampire deck...and all sorts of other things. We've just been grinding like crazy trying to figure out what deck he's most comfortable taking this Friday.
And he rewards good play. He doesn't care about what seems fair...he's exactly like me...he just cares about winning. And when he's dominating...he LOVES it. He doesn't feel in the least bit sorry for me...and I'm THRILLED about that! I need that! I thrive on that! I'm the same way! lol
Sorry I'm so damn hyper...I just got back from a 5 hour grind session with him...and this is going to sound really stupid...but I actually left feeling almost high lmao xP. It was just SO amazing to be playing such quality decks against someone so similar in mindset to me. COMPLETELY satisfying!
What's more is he seems to be just completely soaking up my attention! lol...I think he's just as excited as I am to have someone decent to play against.
I'll update this 1 last time to let you guys know how badly I get stomped in this friday's fnm (though to be fair...my deck has been performing MUCH better then I had ever expected...so who knows. Maybe I'll win a game or 2 this friday)...then I'll let this thread die.
Just wanted to come and express my excitement tonight! lol
...I'm such a dork >.<'
Thank you guys again for everything!
Some awesome suggestions and advice...and I just really appreciate the understanding and the support!
I can finally say I've had my fill of awesome competition now...I'm actually feeling a bit burnt out! lmao...like I need a week or 2 away from the game now!
But that's a good thing! It just means that I've found what I've SOOOOO desperately been craving this week...and it has been AMAZING!
Just went to my first FNM tonight...just going to copy/paste a post I just placed in another thread (a thread I have open discussing my deck):
.......
Okay well...I love my deck. Love it, love it, love it! It's the funnest deck I've ever ran in the years I've been playing.
There wasn't a tremendous amount of people who showed up for the fnm tonight...I think there was 8 of us. That doesn't surprise me too much seeing as it's such a small town...
What did surprise me however, is the level of competition.
The store owner is the state champion, and just recently he top 8ed a PTQ, and there was this other guy who I didn't really like at first who considered himself pro. He sometimes judges events as well, but was playing tonight. I didn't like him at first though cause he was ULTRA serious. Like a robot. No emotion at all from him. It wasn't until he realized that he wasn't just going to plow over me and my deck that he started to open up...then I started to like him lol :P.
I played vs an almost typical UR delver deck...only he did something I haven't seen before, and it was freaking awesome...he was using isochron scepters!...I don't know why I haven't seen that in delver more...but it was pretty amazing!
I also played what I initially thought was a typical GBW angel pod deck...it was running rhinos, and restorations and voices and everything...everything except any kinds of combo. Not even the Thune + Feeder infinite life combo.
He also didn't own (so obviously couldn't run) a linvala...but he did run an anafenza which I was NOT expecting at all and blindsided me. Turns out that card isn't just a great 3 mana beatstick and resets his kitchen finks...BUT it shuts down my combos quite nicely lol.
And lastly I played against a BW token deck. The deck never did anything vs me. It was a combination of him just not having any luck and not drawing what he needed, my deck's ability to apply so much early game pressure...and the constant threat that he has to be aware of that I can always combo off relatively easily left unchecked...and I just pretty much steam rolled over him with nothing noteworthy to report.
I will say that at one point he had 3 1/1 fliers, and a sorin pumping them up...while I was at 2 life. Finks + Pod + Redcap ended up clearing his field for me, while keeping me just barely out of reach long enough to finish my combo pieces for the win. That was pretty exciting :D...I love when I get to pull wins off like that. Where I'm so far behind, yet somehow manage to just barely scrape by long enough to pull off a win. Fun stuff!
(I was in almost the exact same position just a few days ago when I was play testing the same guy with this deck too lol).
.......
All in all I only played 3 people. I went 6-1. Won 6 games, lost 1 game. Took first place :D...really cool foily Brain Maggot is all mine! It's the first event in the 3d world I've ever won, and it's the first card I've ever won too. I'm proud as hell of it!
My 1 loss was to the GBW pod mirror. Game one he was able to fly over my head with some angels. I felt pretty weak going into game 2...but was actually able to combo off for the win very early that game...again I was nervous going into game 3...and I had a pretty slow and awkward start. Lucky for me...so did he. I was able to combo off against him again...but it was really late in the game lol. I just really got lucky that his deck was running as clunky as mine was that game.
Delver was pretty easy for my deck because of thrun. That card just smashed face...he just had NO answers for it (other then tapping him a couple of times with his cryptics. And ESPECIALLY game 2 post board where I had access to 4 abrupt decays...he just really never had much of a chance...and thrun both games sealed the deal for me.
I actually played 3 more games after the FNM...2 more against the other pod deck (which I won...it was nice too cause I actually got to play the mid range beatdown strategy in 1 of the 2 games to show him how smoothly my deck can run as just straight beatdown as well...like the combo is just there to look pretty lol).
And another guy wanted to play me cause he too had a combo deck and he wanted to run it vs. my combo. I had NO clue what he was playing. He just played a ton of stuff to fetch basic lands (forests). I asked if it was scapeshift, and he told me no...but similar. I had no clue.
At any rate, with no threat of him destroying my stuff I went to work over extending and piecing together my combo pieces. Ended up assembling it and gaining infinite life.
He had 7 forests in play, then played a goblin charbelcher haha. He explained he had no more lands in his deck...but pointed the belcher at my melira...which I thought was pretty darn smart.
Anyhow...I actually had 2 pods in play at this point and a big stack of lands. I played a strangleroot geist, sac'd him with my first pod to get a eternal witness bringing my melira back to my hand. Played melira then used my second pod to pod away my eternal witness for a redcap...then dealt infinite damage to him.
Fun Fun!!
All in all, I played 10 games tonight, and won 9 of them.
I freaking love this deck. It was able to win by combo and by beatdown and I played against some pretty stiff competition. Leagues better then I'm use to playing against at any rate.
I'm proud as hell of this deck :D.
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Standard Pauper - Have a pauper tournament with your friends. Anyone can get their hands on the best standard commons cheaply but if you're a spike and as good as you say you are, you'll still likely win a lot because when everyone has equal access to the same cards, skilled play and deckbuilding are highly rewarded. Beating your casual friends at Standard Pauper when you all have essentially the same card pool is a much greater accomplishment and indicator of skill than crushing their 80 card mill deck with Ari Lax's Abzan list.
Booster Draft (or Sealed Deck) - These formats also reward skill and also build your friends' card pools to help make them more competitive. This will also give your friends additional deck building practice to improve abilities of the people you have to play against. Finally, these limited formats are great because there is always the chance that one of your friends will just get lucky and open a couple of awesome rares and truly give you a run for your money, which it sounds like you crave. If your best pull is a Master of Pearls while one of your friends has a Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Duneblast, and a Hooded Hydra (yeah right!), you won't have to feel like a spiky jerk when you play them.
I'm in all honesty not that great of a player myself.
My self confidence, and my social anxieties can both mess with me quite a bit. I'll often make mistakes (pass my turn before making sure there's nothing I'm forgetting to play or activate for example) just cause I get so damn nervous and so I start to rush myself.
And I can get too cocky. I wish I wasn't this way...but it's a problem I've always had with this game. Pretty much since day 1. And that cockiness can just completely blind me.
It's just like with computers though. My family and friends all think I'm pretty damn good with computers. I'm able to keep all of theirs running smoothly and I'm the first person they call when something goes wrong.
But you put me in a room with a few true techies...engineers, or programmers or anything like that...and you'll VERY quickly discover that I don't know jack about computers when it comes down to it.
It only appears that way because of the people I'm surrounded by.
I might appear to be a decent magic player...cause my deck dominates the hell out of my local group's decks.
But as soon as I step foot into my LGS for a tournament (even a casual tourney like a FNM)...and it's likely that me and my deck wont perform nearly as well...and I wont be crushing anyone. If I do get some wins...it'll be dam hard fought. I didn't dominate for the win...I struggled and had to not only fight through my opponent...but fight my own inadequacies to get to that win.
...And yeah, I def. want to start doing more drafts with them. Some of the funnest times I've had in this game was just a few weeks ago in a 3 man draft (lol). I got crushed (we only had time for 1 game /sad)...but I didn't even care. I just had a blast cracking packs, picking my cards, and building my deck. Crazy you mention Sorin too...haha cause my friend pulled it that draft.
Your friends are casuals. They might always be casuals. There's nothing wrong with casuals, but you shouldn't be playing games with them to fulfill your own Magic desires. When you play with them, your purpose should shift from winning to educating. You don't have to be direct or blunt about the purpose of games with them, but you can throw subtle hints at how they might improve their decks. If a ruling comes up that's contested, someone should pause the game, pull out a smartphone, and research it. If you can't find an answer, let your friends decide the answer, even if you don't agree with it, and post it in the rules forum. When you learn the correct answer you come back to them next time and say "so, you remember the whole weird thing we had last week? Turns out here's the answer...."
TLDR: Find another playgroup to release your competitive nature. When playing with them, you should assume the role of a student until you're a suitable sparring partner. When sitting down at the kitchen table, you should assume the role of teacher, helping the casuals become better sparring partners for you and each other. If they improve enough, some may want to up their game and join you at FNMs eventually when they become more comfortable with their play abilities. The same thing that holds you back from serious competition is the thing holding them back from competition- they know they're not good enough; the difference is that they don't care and you do.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Like I said...it's just not fun. I feel mean and just lame for playing my deck vs. them.
But damn it LOVE my deck. And I'm the kind of guy who likes to just play 1 deck and then play it over and over, slowly tweaking it here and there as needed...till I come to a list that I'm completely happy with.
I don't get bored with my decks. I can see myself playing this deck exclusively in modern for many, many months to come...and I'd never tire of it. It's just the way I am (where my friends enjoy having a variety of decks to play and they rotate their decks almost every game).
Well 3 games in and 1 of my friends was getting quite upset. I don't blame him...it's almost like I'm cheating at this point. Another was ready to head to bed (we were playing at her house). My 3rd friend who was there...he's all for me playing the deck...in fact he encourages it. He's the one that plays a very shifty/casual mill deck...he's never once shown any signs of being upset with my playing cut throat cards.
So I gave in. Put my deck away, and asked one of my friends if I could play his deck.
It was okay...and the games were MUCH more even from that point on...but I didn't enjoy it. The first deck I played I had NOTHING to play for the first 5 turns...and I mean that was fine cause we were playing 4 player multiplayer...and for the most part none of them were playing anything major before turn 5 or 6...but man...it just left me wanting my dang deck back.
A few games later and another borrowed deck...and again, I didn't have anything to play...but only it took me till turn 6 to draw into something I could play this time. It was an enchant creature deck...and the whole point was to put out a creature, then load it up with tons of enchantments and go for the kill. And it did work...I ended the game with something like a 50/50 creature with lifelink, trample, hexproof...and protection from creatures.
But something just felt off about the deck to me. It was cool...and I do gotta admit it was fun piecing together this massively monstrous creature...but it just didn't feel nearly fast enough, didn't have any way of recovering if my creature died somehow (only creature I drew the entire game)...and it just felt clunky. Cool...but clunky.
I went through the deck after the game...the cheapest creature he was playing was at 4 CMC...and he was only playing 12 creatures.
Again...it just left me feeling bitter and sad and frustrated cause I want to play my deck. My deck is never waiting around doing nothing for the first 4-6 turns. My deck aims to finish most games by then...my deck doesn't feel clunky. It feels like a dam well oiled machine (it's a birthing pod deck).
I don't think I'll be able to continue to play their decks for long. I've got too much invested in my deck, and it just way too enjoyable to play for me to be pushing it to the side.
I may be done playing magic with the group here before long. We'll still be friends...I'll just stop playing magic with them. And that's fine...they'll still have each other to play with.
And I'm hoping that I'll find stronger competition at my local store. I've yet to step foot in the store to play some games...lol I'm quite nervous...but I do plan on going in sometime early this week to meet some of the regulars and hopefully get some games in.
If nothing else, I wouldn't mind getting a sense of some of the possible decks I'll be facing for the modern FNM coming up this friday.
Oh I will mention that I opened up and told my group about my frustrations...explained to them that I purposely designed my deck to be as vicious as possible, as efficient as possible and as cut throat as I could make it. That as well as it's performed over the last couple of weekends...that I've invested another $200+ into it and that the cards should be here by next weekend. The deck will only get even better...but that it's just not fun playing it cause they're decks are much more tuned to be casual decks.
They all agreed...and I asked for suggestions.
No one really knows quite yet.
We are all going to start putting commander decks together and start playing that though, and I told them I'll continue to play with there decks for now...and only play my deck 1 or 2 games each weekend.
It's a compromise I'm not real happy about having to make...lol I just want to play my deck every game all the time! but it'll have to do for now.
I'm SO hoping to find an outlet for my more serious side though here soon...so that I'll hopefully be able to calm down a bit and be more casual with this group.
Right now I'm still feeling quite frustrated about it.
Thanks again for everything guys
More then anything it just feels good to vent you know?
1. Borrow a friend's deck when playing
2. Play a different variant such as commander, planechase, archenemy, etc.
3. Just use your competitive decks and whoop em
4. Challenge yourself to build a deck around a strange and unique card you have a preference for. This would lead to a fun deck that isn't truly competitive.
5. Maybe after you prove your the superior player, offer to help them with their decks with advice. (Try not to sound like an elitist or superior)
6. Locate and visit your LGS. That will surely give you much more of a run for your money.
7. Get new friends (jk)
Personally, I can't fathom why anybody would want to continually play something but not attempt to get any better at it. "Fun" decks aren't so fun when your constantly getting stomped all the time.
1-You need to play at your local shop. Really. I have no idea how good or bad you really are, but you'll most likely find out there. You need actual competition, it will satisfy you far more to play with others who are serious about the game. Not all stores are necessarily competitive so you need to check them out.
2-Your friends also need to check out the lgs, it will make them better players also. I know my local store has a casual night aimed at newer players, which encourages them to learn. Speaking of which....
3-Spikes are usually terrible magic teachers. No patience and understanding at all. At the local store your friends may find a more patient and helpful teacher:)) That's me at my store, I have a beginner friendly deck to play against newbies and help with deck tech. After running through a few games with my newbie deck, I run my standard deck against them. After 4 or 5 games with them pulling no mana, I pull their 80 card deck apart to find it has 17 land. Once I explain that my deck that killed them has 24, they are usually willing to make changes with my help. People are often much more open to changes when it isn't friends/family making them.
4-Go to tournaments! You really, really need it. Even if you get hammered it will make you happy to play in those environments. I think you will be more tolerant of your friends when you have another outlet for competition.
You really just need to play with more people then just your friends. Eventually you'll get so aggravated with them that it could effect your friendship. Go play with other crazy spikes and have fun.
Mary
a few weeks ago a guy came out to play with my group of friends (first time I'd met him). Him and me argued on rule and things got a bit heated...and I hadn't seen him since.
He also disappointed me that night because I was less then impressed with his deck builds.
Haven't seen him since.
Until tonight.
And man...I freaking love the guy now! haha
Man he's vicious. And he's mean about it! And he's like a robot...uncaring, unforgetting and automatic.
He was playing a pretty sick (legacy by the looks of it) control deck filled to the prim with countermagic. 2 of my friends were visually getting annoyed as heck with the deck. I guess it's not fun when your opponent is countering every spell that has any kind of meaning...lol.
But I loved it! Every time he'd cast a counter on a spell I'd play...my inner vicious side just grinned.
FINALLY someone who's willing to play "mean" not fun to play against cards. And I loved ever bit of it!
His deck looked to be like the kind of deck that could shut me down. And I don't know why...but that excites me. It excites me to play against a deck that is incredibly difficult for me to face...a constant uphill battle. I so freaking crave that right now! And I think he can provide it!
I still think his decks could be better tuned...but dang, at least now I know he's got some mean ones.
So I told him I'd love if we could start playing some 1on1 games against his decks. It was getting to late tonight to keep playing, but yeah...we'll get some games in next weekend if not sometime this week.
I don't even know why I'm typing this to be honest lol xP. I'm just pumped. Not only did him and me get to know each other better tonight, but it turns out him and me are actually quite a bit alike (both in game, and out)...and this was the first night in a long while that I actually left feeling excited and fulfilled.
Not only have I possibly made a new friend tonight...but I very well may have met someone as cut throat as I am. I can't wait to get some 1on1 games in with him!
2 of the friends I play against visually and verbally express their disinterest in anyone else playing too vicious of a deck. Been having to deal with it for the last couple of weeks.
I expressed that to this guy, and he's got the exact philosophy that I do. Isn't that the point? To win? What else would you make a deck for? You don't build decks with the intent to make it as fun as possible for you opponent. You make it to win.
Yep. I love this guy
oh...and p.s.
He doesn't hold a grudge at all! And he doesn't understand why people play "nice" lol. I don't either!!
But tonight I got some early pressure on the board in a 4 player game...and I pointed almost all of my attacks at him. I ended up taking him out early in the game. I felt guilty for doing it...because all my other friends take offense when someone guns after them.
I was surprised at this guy's reaction.
He acted as if NOTHING I did was wrong. He was just as happy and talkative after I'd gunned him down...as he was before and during the game.
But it wasn't only that...he acted as if I did the right thing. He posed the greatest threat at the table at the time...so even though I could've spread my attacks out to keep things "fair" and even...he seemed to completely understand...and agree...with me taking out the biggest threat.
It was just great.
It bugs me so much that I have to play "fair" in our multiplayer games or risk hurting someone's fillings.
Maybe he's just got an insanely good poker face...but I got NO hint at all that his feelings had been even remotely hurt.
Ugh, didn't go well. She generally lost turn 6 and games were decided well before that, when I'd drop an Advent of the Wurm, ambush an attacking creature and backswing for 5.
Things changed when she used the Selesnya deck and I pulled out a different deck - a failed experiment from RTR block constructed, a Jeskai tempo deck. Games became a lot more interesting then.
Its nice you found someone to challenge you. If a rules question pops up just use the power of the internet to prove your point.
EDH or Commander is a great multiplayer format. The randomness of a single card format can certainly level the playing field. It will also force them to play 100 card decks. The games are a bit slower so your friends can play the big powerful spells they seem to like.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
It's not perfect...and obliterator's in there cause I'm super stuborn haha. It should probably be a thrun...but meh :P.
--1 Drops (7):
4x Birds Of Paradise
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Viscera Seer
--2 Drops (6):
3x Strangleroot Geist
1x Spellskite
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
--3 Drops (4):
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Varolz, The Scar-Striped
1x Eternal Witness
2x Murderous Redcap
1x Phyrexian Obliterator
1x Entomber Exarch
--5 Drops (2):
1x Thragtusk
1x Shriekmaw
--6 Drops (1):
1x Grave Titan
----ARTIFACTS, INSTANTS & SORCERIES (13):
--Creature Fetch (6):
4x Birthing Pod
2x Chord Of Calling
--Equipment (1):
1x Sword Of Light And Shadow
--Spot Removal & Hand Disruption (6):
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
--Fetch Lands (8):
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Polluted Delta
--Mana Fixers (8):
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
--Man Lands (1):
1x Dryad Arbor
--Basic Lands (4):
3x Forest
3x Swamp
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun, The Last Troll
1x Chord Of Calling
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Dismember
2x Creeping Corrosion
1x Thoughtseize
2x Choke
Also note that when I'm playing multiplayer games and my friend's going to play his mill deck...I have to find room for a couple Loaming Shamans which makes me sad (in 1on1 games vs him, I don't have to make any changes to my deck. His deck is too slow for me to need answers to him).
I also just ordered 2 gaea's blessings yesterday I'm curious to try out against his deck in multiplayer games.
And I also replace my abrupt decays and use putrefy instead in multiplayer games...games go longer in multiplayer, and all my friends like big clunky creatures. Decay is amazing...just not vs a lot of the stuff they like to play.
Cockatrice!
Derp!
It's not the same as playing in person...also not nearly as enjoyable as mtgo for me (there's just a sense of pride I get knowing that the cards I'm playing are 'mine'...physical or virtual).
But I played my deck for several hours yesterday and got to play against all sorts of great stuff. Lots of delver /sigh...(lol man that deck is tough! It's winnable, but I lost many more games then I won vs. delver...treasure cruise puts that deck way over the top!).
I also put together a BUG commander deck, and just purchased the W commander 2014 deck wizards just put out and we're going to start playing commander here soon.
I don't want to work too hard on my BUG deck too much, as there's just far too many broken cards on my wish list I could easily put into the deck...and I don't want yet another over powered deck against my friends.
Though I do think I'm going to work on my white commander deck. At least throw in some better equipment, better removal and a few equipment fetchers (stoneforge, steelshaper's gift and enlightened tutor).
But I think this deck will always remain completely beatable (I'm pretty sure if I pushed hard enough, I could make a BUG deck that was too over powered and hard to play against vs. the group of people I play).
I found exactly what I've been needing in a guy I met several years back in college. I was always so busy back then and had no deck/collection so we never got to play...but we started to play recently and have been playtesting a TON over the last couple of days for this week's upcoming modern fnm...
And I'm left completely satisfied! He's given me EVERYTHING I've been looking for in magic. He's a very good deck builder, has a HUGE collection and tons of awesome decks put together...and he doesn't make decks that are fun. He makes his decks to be as efficient and as consistent as possible. I love that.
I've been able to play so much now too. Delver, blue/white control (get to play vs. blue/white/red control tomorrow), B/W tokens, a stompy deck, infest, a damn nasty vampire deck...and all sorts of other things. We've just been grinding like crazy trying to figure out what deck he's most comfortable taking this Friday.
And he rewards good play. He doesn't care about what seems fair...he's exactly like me...he just cares about winning. And when he's dominating...he LOVES it. He doesn't feel in the least bit sorry for me...and I'm THRILLED about that! I need that! I thrive on that! I'm the same way! lol
Sorry I'm so damn hyper...I just got back from a 5 hour grind session with him...and this is going to sound really stupid...but I actually left feeling almost high lmao xP. It was just SO amazing to be playing such quality decks against someone so similar in mindset to me. COMPLETELY satisfying!
What's more is he seems to be just completely soaking up my attention! lol...I think he's just as excited as I am to have someone decent to play against.
I'll update this 1 last time to let you guys know how badly I get stomped in this friday's fnm (though to be fair...my deck has been performing MUCH better then I had ever expected...so who knows. Maybe I'll win a game or 2 this friday)...then I'll let this thread die.
Just wanted to come and express my excitement tonight! lol
...I'm such a dork >.<'
Some awesome suggestions and advice...and I just really appreciate the understanding and the support!
I can finally say I've had my fill of awesome competition now...I'm actually feeling a bit burnt out! lmao...like I need a week or 2 away from the game now!
But that's a good thing! It just means that I've found what I've SOOOOO desperately been craving this week...and it has been AMAZING!
Just went to my first FNM tonight...just going to copy/paste a post I just placed in another thread (a thread I have open discussing my deck):
.......
Okay well...I love my deck. Love it, love it, love it! It's the funnest deck I've ever ran in the years I've been playing.
There wasn't a tremendous amount of people who showed up for the fnm tonight...I think there was 8 of us. That doesn't surprise me too much seeing as it's such a small town...
What did surprise me however, is the level of competition.
The store owner is the state champion, and just recently he top 8ed a PTQ, and there was this other guy who I didn't really like at first who considered himself pro. He sometimes judges events as well, but was playing tonight. I didn't like him at first though cause he was ULTRA serious. Like a robot. No emotion at all from him. It wasn't until he realized that he wasn't just going to plow over me and my deck that he started to open up...then I started to like him lol :P.
I played vs an almost typical UR delver deck...only he did something I haven't seen before, and it was freaking awesome...he was using isochron scepters!...I don't know why I haven't seen that in delver more...but it was pretty amazing!
I also played what I initially thought was a typical GBW angel pod deck...it was running rhinos, and restorations and voices and everything...everything except any kinds of combo. Not even the Thune + Feeder infinite life combo.
He also didn't own (so obviously couldn't run) a linvala...but he did run an anafenza which I was NOT expecting at all and blindsided me. Turns out that card isn't just a great 3 mana beatstick and resets his kitchen finks...BUT it shuts down my combos quite nicely lol.
And lastly I played against a BW token deck. The deck never did anything vs me. It was a combination of him just not having any luck and not drawing what he needed, my deck's ability to apply so much early game pressure...and the constant threat that he has to be aware of that I can always combo off relatively easily left unchecked...and I just pretty much steam rolled over him with nothing noteworthy to report.
I will say that at one point he had 3 1/1 fliers, and a sorin pumping them up...while I was at 2 life. Finks + Pod + Redcap ended up clearing his field for me, while keeping me just barely out of reach long enough to finish my combo pieces for the win. That was pretty exciting :D...I love when I get to pull wins off like that. Where I'm so far behind, yet somehow manage to just barely scrape by long enough to pull off a win. Fun stuff!
(I was in almost the exact same position just a few days ago when I was play testing the same guy with this deck too lol).
.......
All in all I only played 3 people. I went 6-1. Won 6 games, lost 1 game. Took first place :D...really cool foily Brain Maggot is all mine! It's the first event in the 3d world I've ever won, and it's the first card I've ever won too. I'm proud as hell of it!
My 1 loss was to the GBW pod mirror. Game one he was able to fly over my head with some angels. I felt pretty weak going into game 2...but was actually able to combo off for the win very early that game...again I was nervous going into game 3...and I had a pretty slow and awkward start. Lucky for me...so did he. I was able to combo off against him again...but it was really late in the game lol. I just really got lucky that his deck was running as clunky as mine was that game.
Delver was pretty easy for my deck because of thrun. That card just smashed face...he just had NO answers for it (other then tapping him a couple of times with his cryptics. And ESPECIALLY game 2 post board where I had access to 4 abrupt decays...he just really never had much of a chance...and thrun both games sealed the deal for me.
I actually played 3 more games after the FNM...2 more against the other pod deck (which I won...it was nice too cause I actually got to play the mid range beatdown strategy in 1 of the 2 games to show him how smoothly my deck can run as just straight beatdown as well...like the combo is just there to look pretty lol).
And another guy wanted to play me cause he too had a combo deck and he wanted to run it vs. my combo. I had NO clue what he was playing. He just played a ton of stuff to fetch basic lands (forests). I asked if it was scapeshift, and he told me no...but similar. I had no clue.
At any rate, with no threat of him destroying my stuff I went to work over extending and piecing together my combo pieces. Ended up assembling it and gaining infinite life.
He had 7 forests in play, then played a goblin charbelcher haha. He explained he had no more lands in his deck...but pointed the belcher at my melira...which I thought was pretty darn smart.
Anyhow...I actually had 2 pods in play at this point and a big stack of lands. I played a strangleroot geist, sac'd him with my first pod to get a eternal witness bringing my melira back to my hand. Played melira then used my second pod to pod away my eternal witness for a redcap...then dealt infinite damage to him.
Fun Fun!!
All in all, I played 10 games tonight, and won 9 of them.
I freaking love this deck. It was able to win by combo and by beatdown and I played against some pretty stiff competition. Leagues better then I'm use to playing against at any rate.
I'm proud as hell of this deck :D.