Yay! another combo deck! I am actually happy every single person i play against is running Twin/Pod/insert combo deck, it really brings me joy to have to take away from what my deck is trying to do, or be ready above all for one specific deck instead of a bunch of decks!
"He played to his outs and beat me by giving himself the option, he wasn't lucky." Said no Magic player ever.
When you play to your outs and win, you got lucky. That's what playing to your outs means. The phrase literally describes a situation where you are likely to lose in the majority of possible outcomes, so you are now playing with the assumption that the less common outcomes where you might win will come to pass. It's a player coming to the realization that he needs to get lucky to win, so he plays to give himself the best chance of getting lucky.
Example:
I have only four lightning bolts in my deck, have already used two and have the third as the last card in my hand. You are down to six life, but are attacking me for lethal and I need to either chump block with a valuable creature or bolt one attacker to survive. Even after doing so, you will still be attacking me for lethal the turn after. Normally I would use the bolt on an attacker and preserve my valuable creature, but in this case your board position is so dominating that literally nothing I draw can overcome it. I just have to play to my outs, chump with my valuable creature and assume that I will draw my last remaining bolt for the win next turn. If I do draw the bolt, assuming it is not literally the last card in my library, I got lucky.
On Topic:
"My opponent just used a card I don't like that is legal in the format we are playing. Instead of getting mad at him for playing by the rules, I will rightfully direct my anger at the people responsible for making the determination of which cards are legal in this format."
"He played to his outs and beat me by giving himself the option, he wasn't lucky." Said no Magic player ever.
When you play to your outs and win, you got lucky. That's what playing to your outs means. The phrase literally describes a situation where you are likely to lose in the majority of possible outcomes, so you are now playing with the assumption that the less common outcomes where you might win will come to pass. It's a player coming to the realization that he needs to get lucky to win, so he plays to give himself the best chance of getting lucky.
Luck i define as something you dont count for possible.
If you play according to what you "need" to win and thats your plan, you either draw it (so the draw itself is just random) , but you allowed that card to be the topdeck it is, so you didnt set yourself up just by luck, you planned for it.
If someone actual believes they cant win, and draw the card that then wins the game ; well thats lucky and quite stupid, and i would be annoyed to lose to "that" guy ; while someone that can tell me "i need this card to win", and topdecks, i am totally fine with, they knew what they needed and they got it.
Example:
I have only four lightning bolts in my deck, have already used two and have the third as the last card in my hand. You are down to six life, but are attacking me for lethal and I need to either chump block with a valuable creature or bolt one attacker to survive. Even after doing so, you will still be attacking me for lethal the turn after. Normally I would use the bolt on an attacker and preserve my valuable creature, but in this case your board position is so dominating that literally nothing I draw can overcome it. I just have to play to my outs, chump with my valuable creature and assume that I will draw my last remaining bolt for the win next turn. If I do draw the bolt, assuming it is not literally the last card in my library, I got lucky.
A bad player is one that doesnt see what they need and use the bolt to kill one of your creatures, so they lose the potential topdeck which wins the game for a clever player.
The draw itself is random, but you have to build a plan how you can potentially win. Playing just to "not lose right now" is not the way to go. You want to allways play according to a plan that actual wins you the game, no matter how unlikely that is, if its the only way to win (or the most likely at least) , THATS the correct play and thats what is one of the biggest differences between bad and good players, you have to set you up for the topdeck, bad players will simply have much less game winning topdecks, as they worked hard to avoid this situtions (by playing wrong).
Simply plain luck would be if you dont think ahead at all and "still" pull the cards that win you the game, even while missplaying left and right, in short, you win the game, even if you choose a path that had a much lower chance for success.
To extend your example:
Smart player) The good player has the Bolt and knows the only way to win is topdeck another burn spell (we have more than 1). Small chance, but we know it is possible. So we keep the Lightning Bolt and we draw the next, we win. Lucky ? Sure as it was a small chance, but we still won as we had a plan.
Bad player) The bad player has the Bolt and uses it to kill a creature. They now have no chance to win the game anymore, unless they draw the "random" 1 off they included during deck building, which is a Fireball in there burn deck, as they didnt have another Lightning Bolt.
The bad player wins, and THATS lucky, they didnt have a plan, the stars simply aligned for them.
----------------------------------
"I lost to mill/stax. That was a fun game." - Said no magic player ever.
"I own all the cards i want" ... Said no magic player ever
There are a fair number of magic players (such as me) who play only limited. So the only thing we do with cards we own is give them to newer players who still need commons or sell them.
I have to agree, some people looks and smells like bums, and our store has fans as ventilation... Yeah, fans. So if they are somewhat located by the fans, it smells really bad. Body spray is not shower on a can.
"Watching your storm deck go off was exciting and interesting. Let's play again, I wanna see that one more time!"
In casual games of Vintage this happens a lot and both players often get involved in trying to figure out if or how the storm deck could win out despite being way behind. I've had some really fun games watching a Storm player try to go off and wiff by one draw. Those games are pretty intense and fun.
Edit: I remember one Vintage event where I met the poster HrishiQQ and boy was his luck bad that day, but he was a great guy and we had a lot of laughs whether I was playing against him or watching him play side matches for fun.
So we get the enemy colored painlands and not the allied color ones? Well that's reverse of the norm, but I thought Wizards was planning to do full 10 land cycles from now on.
Enemy pains could indicate allied Fetches in the next set, to offset the colour imbalance. It would also make sense since it would allow Modern to have access to all 10 Fetches as opposed to only 5.
Or you could read the article, and now that's not true.
Standard
>implying Modern
>implying Legacy UWMiracles/Countertop EDH UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR My Trades
"Watching your storm deck go off was exciting and interesting. Let's play again, I wanna see that one more time!"
In casual games of Vintage this happens a lot and both players often get involved in trying to figure out if or how the storm deck could win out despite being way behind. I've had some really fun games watching a Storm player try to go off and wiff by one draw. Those games are pretty intense and fun.
Edit: I remember one Vintage event where I met the poster HrishiQQ and boy was his luck bad that day, but he was a great guy and we had a lot of laughs whether I was playing against him or watching him play side matches for fun.
AND THE GREAT MYTH OF PLAYERS WHO ENJOY WATCHING AN OPPONENT COMBO OFF WITH STORM FOR 15 MINUTES CONTINUES. This legend is a cultural heritage of the salvation board and must be protected at all costs. Otherwise people might just think people play storm for a deck on the cheaper end (at least in modern) that can still steal wins if the opponent doesn't draw the correct hate. Thank you for doing your part to propagate the "truth" that storm can be enjoyable for BOTH sides!
"I don't want a wedge-themed Asian-flavored time travel block."
—said no Blogatog follower ever
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Well most FNMs I see start at 5pm or 6pm on a Friday. So I think most people rush straight to the Store straight from work/school. I personally go to the 7/8pm ones so I can go home first and shower, but we also have people coming from work going straight to those FNMs. Played a dude smelling like Paint in his overalls!
Luck i define as something you dont count for possible.
I think you should come up with a better description, or a different word. "Lucky" is already a word that means something. If you got a good result from a random outcome, even though statistically you were more likely to get a bad one, you got lucky.
Perhaps your main issue is that for some reason, you are conflating luck with skill. Luck has nothing to do with being a good or bad player. Good players give themselves more chances to get lucky than bad players, but in the end anyone "playing to his outs" is still banking on luck.
"Better lucky than good."
- Patrick Chapin (Pro Tour Champion), to Andrea Mengucci, after topdecking an Elspeth to win the game.
"I defend the Reserved List, even though I don't own any cards on it and have no personal financial interest in keeping it. It's good for the game, and good for Legacy."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
"Watching your storm deck go off was exciting and interesting. Let's play again, I wanna see that one more time!"
In casual games of Vintage this happens a lot and both players often get involved in trying to figure out if or how the storm deck could win out despite being way behind. I've had some really fun games watching a Storm player try to go off and wiff by one draw. Those games are pretty intense and fun.
Edit: I remember one Vintage event where I met the poster HrishiQQ and boy was his luck bad that day, but he was a great guy and we had a lot of laughs whether I was playing against him or watching him play side matches for fun.
AND THE GREAT MYTH OF PLAYERS WHO ENJOY WATCHING AN OPPONENT COMBO OFF WITH STORM FOR 15 MINUTES CONTINUES. This legend is a cultural heritage of the salvation board and must be protected at all costs. Otherwise people might just think people play storm for a deck on the cheaper end (at least in modern) that can still steal wins if the opponent doesn't draw the correct hate. Thank you for doing your part to propagate the "truth" that storm can be enjoyable for BOTH sides!
I'm sensing some hostility here...
Honestly, that's the cool thing about Vintage, one of the pseudo-aggro decks beats storm as it plays thing like Lodestone Golem and similar effects on turn 2 if not 1, the prison deck beats it with multiple Sphere of Resistance cards, and the Fish deck beats it with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben + Wasteland + Phyrexian Revoker, all of which are solid outside of that match up so Storm is weaker.
As for me, I play control, so I have a slightly worse game against them, but it's always fun keeping a Flusterstorm or Mindbreak Trap on top of my deck for multiple turns with a Sensei's Divining Top so that I can protect it from Duress/Thoughtseize while also assuring I get it after a Wheel of Fortune goes off. That or just beating down with a Snapcaster Mage while you control certain aspects of the game.
Guess I'm just lucky to play in a format with so many quick and diverse answers that can be utilized on the fly to create interactive game play. Oh well, maybe one day more people will get into the awesomeness that's Vintage.
So we get the enemy colored painlands and not the allied color ones? Well that's reverse of the norm, but I thought Wizards was planning to do full 10 land cycles from now on.
Enemy pains could indicate allied Fetches in the next set, to offset the colour imbalance. It would also make sense since it would allow Modern to have access to all 10 Fetches as opposed to only 5.
Or you could read the article, and now that's not true.
Storm can be interesting to watch, but it turns tedious fast. B'sides, if I want to get the "Storm Experience", I might as well sign on to Chatroulette. There too, I can watch a fat neckbeard play with himself for 20 minutes. It's just minus the smell.
Trolling Warning -Cythare
And no, not every storm player is a fat neckbeard, that was a joke, which you sometimes sadly need to spell out before people take offense.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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... said nobody ever.
When you play to your outs and win, you got lucky. That's what playing to your outs means. The phrase literally describes a situation where you are likely to lose in the majority of possible outcomes, so you are now playing with the assumption that the less common outcomes where you might win will come to pass. It's a player coming to the realization that he needs to get lucky to win, so he plays to give himself the best chance of getting lucky.
Example:
I have only four lightning bolts in my deck, have already used two and have the third as the last card in my hand. You are down to six life, but are attacking me for lethal and I need to either chump block with a valuable creature or bolt one attacker to survive. Even after doing so, you will still be attacking me for lethal the turn after. Normally I would use the bolt on an attacker and preserve my valuable creature, but in this case your board position is so dominating that literally nothing I draw can overcome it. I just have to play to my outs, chump with my valuable creature and assume that I will draw my last remaining bolt for the win next turn. If I do draw the bolt, assuming it is not literally the last card in my library, I got lucky.
On Topic:
"My opponent just used a card I don't like that is legal in the format we are playing. Instead of getting mad at him for playing by the rules, I will rightfully direct my anger at the people responsible for making the determination of which cards are legal in this format."
Luck i define as something you dont count for possible.
If you play according to what you "need" to win and thats your plan, you either draw it (so the draw itself is just random) , but you allowed that card to be the topdeck it is, so you didnt set yourself up just by luck, you planned for it.
If someone actual believes they cant win, and draw the card that then wins the game ; well thats lucky and quite stupid, and i would be annoyed to lose to "that" guy ; while someone that can tell me "i need this card to win", and topdecks, i am totally fine with, they knew what they needed and they got it.
A bad player is one that doesnt see what they need and use the bolt to kill one of your creatures, so they lose the potential topdeck which wins the game for a clever player.
The draw itself is random, but you have to build a plan how you can potentially win. Playing just to "not lose right now" is not the way to go. You want to allways play according to a plan that actual wins you the game, no matter how unlikely that is, if its the only way to win (or the most likely at least) , THATS the correct play and thats what is one of the biggest differences between bad and good players, you have to set you up for the topdeck, bad players will simply have much less game winning topdecks, as they worked hard to avoid this situtions (by playing wrong).
Simply plain luck would be if you dont think ahead at all and "still" pull the cards that win you the game, even while missplaying left and right, in short, you win the game, even if you choose a path that had a much lower chance for success.
To extend your example:
Smart player) The good player has the Bolt and knows the only way to win is topdeck another burn spell (we have more than 1). Small chance, but we know it is possible. So we keep the Lightning Bolt and we draw the next, we win. Lucky ? Sure as it was a small chance, but we still won as we had a plan.
Bad player) The bad player has the Bolt and uses it to kill a creature. They now have no chance to win the game anymore, unless they draw the "random" 1 off they included during deck building, which is a Fireball in there burn deck, as they didnt have another Lightning Bolt.
The bad player wins, and THATS lucky, they didnt have a plan, the stars simply aligned for them.
----------------------------------
"I lost to mill/stax. That was a fun game." - Said no magic player ever.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
There are a fair number of magic players (such as me) who play only limited. So the only thing we do with cards we own is give them to newer players who still need commons or sell them.
I have to agree, some people looks and smells like bums, and our store has fans as ventilation... Yeah, fans. So if they are somewhat located by the fans, it smells really bad. Body spray is not shower on a can.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
"The Soul Sisters mirror is too fast"
"Brainstorm is a terrible card"
"I'm not going to sleeve my Powered Vintage deck, its a waste of time"
-Anonymous
"Oh, no, it's okay, it says I *may* choose for you lose life/discard/sacrifice a creature, etc. I'm just not in that kind of mood today."
- said no ( especially no B-loving ) Magic player ever.
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
Edit: I remember one Vintage event where I met the poster HrishiQQ and boy was his luck bad that day, but he was a great guy and we had a lot of laughs whether I was playing against him or watching him play side matches for fun.
Oh... Ok... Clearly.
>implying
Modern
>implying
Legacy
UWMiracles/Countertop
EDH
UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU
RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU
GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR
My Trades
"I play standard for the deck variety"
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR
AND THE GREAT MYTH OF PLAYERS WHO ENJOY WATCHING AN OPPONENT COMBO OFF WITH STORM FOR 15 MINUTES CONTINUES. This legend is a cultural heritage of the salvation board and must be protected at all costs. Otherwise people might just think people play storm for a deck on the cheaper end (at least in modern) that can still steal wins if the opponent doesn't draw the correct hate. Thank you for doing your part to propagate the "truth" that storm can be enjoyable for BOTH sides!
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
OK, so we say it. But we don't mean it.
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR
Oh we mean it.... for 2-3 months. What? Magic is addicting
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
...said no Blue Magic player ever.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Leveler would like to have a word with you...
It's a meme.
"I don't want a wedge-themed Asian-flavored time travel block."
—said no Blogatog follower ever
On phasing:
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
I think you should come up with a better description, or a different word. "Lucky" is already a word that means something. If you got a good result from a random outcome, even though statistically you were more likely to get a bad one, you got lucky.
Perhaps your main issue is that for some reason, you are conflating luck with skill. Luck has nothing to do with being a good or bad player. Good players give themselves more chances to get lucky than bad players, but in the end anyone "playing to his outs" is still banking on luck.
"Better lucky than good."
- Patrick Chapin (Pro Tour Champion), to Andrea Mengucci, after topdecking an Elspeth to win the game.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
I'm sensing some hostility here...
Honestly, that's the cool thing about Vintage, one of the pseudo-aggro decks beats storm as it plays thing like Lodestone Golem and similar effects on turn 2 if not 1, the prison deck beats it with multiple Sphere of Resistance cards, and the Fish deck beats it with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben + Wasteland + Phyrexian Revoker, all of which are solid outside of that match up so Storm is weaker.
As for me, I play control, so I have a slightly worse game against them, but it's always fun keeping a Flusterstorm or Mindbreak Trap on top of my deck for multiple turns with a Sensei's Divining Top so that I can protect it from Duress/Thoughtseize while also assuring I get it after a Wheel of Fortune goes off. That or just beating down with a Snapcaster Mage while you control certain aspects of the game.
Guess I'm just lucky to play in a format with so many quick and diverse answers that can be utilized on the fly to create interactive game play. Oh well, maybe one day more people will get into the awesomeness that's Vintage.
Oh... Ok... Clearly.
Trolling Warning -Cythare
And no, not every storm player is a fat neckbeard, that was a joke, which you sometimes sadly need to spell out before people take offense.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.