But where does the "Tron" monicker originate from? During the Urzatron standard years? During an Extended tournament?
The point was more that I realized "Tron" must have been an old name for the archetype, not one invented during Modern. And the same with Eggs. (That is, I partly conceded my original point... )
If I remember correctly, it comes from the Standard format around Kamigawa block, that included those lands. I don't know if it was referred to as Tron earlier than that, but I know it goes back at least that far. Tron is a reference to the cartoon Voltron, where the giant robot is assembled out of five robotic lions.
The deck was called eggs because it originally used Darkwater Egg and the rest of the egg cycle from Odyssey.
But where does the "Tron" monicker originate from? During the Urzatron standard years? During an Extended tournament?
The point was more that I realized "Tron" must have been an old name for the archetype, not one invented during Modern. And the same with Eggs. (That is, I partly conceded my original point... )
If I remember correctly, it comes from the Standard format around Kamigawa block, that included those lands. I don't know if it was referred to as Tron earlier than that, but I know it goes back at least that far. Tron is a reference to the cartoon Voltron, where the giant robot is assembled out of five robotic lions.
The deck was called eggs because it originally used Darkwater Egg and the rest of the egg cycle from Odyssey.
Given, I'm having to call back 18 years now, but I believe the Urza lands were called Tron (yup, a Voltron reference) from very early on. They were barely played for years, partly due to mana burn, partly due to a lack of quality land fetching, and partly due to a lack of decent artifacts that required that much ramp. Again, I'm nearly 2 decades removed, so I could be completely off base on that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Deck names are as specific as they need to be. In standard you rarely have multiple decks in the same archetypes and colors, so Monoblack is sufficient as a deck name. Names like Death and Taxes exist because they need to distinguish the deck from other white decks, and the name describes the deck's strategy of "taxing" the opponent's resources.
I am pretty sure Urzatron has had its name since Urza's block (or close to it). I remember seeing casual decks that casted the closest thing to Emrakul at the time, phyrexian Colossus (and other bad artifacts).
Deck names are as specific as they need to be. In standard you rarely have multiple decks in the same archetypes and colors, so Monoblack is sufficient as a deck name. Names like Death and Taxes exist because they need to distinguish the deck from other white decks, and the name describes the deck's strategy of "taxing" the opponent's resources.
This actually has nothing to do with D&Ts naming. But it is a nice coincidence. Death and Taxes got its name as a reference to an old famous saying, like a white weenie deck in a constructed format, there's only two things that are certain in life: death and taxes.
I thought tron was referring to the original tron movie from way way back. Could easily be voltron though. Don't really care all that much though.
People are lazy in terms of coming up with cool deck names. They just don't care too. I wish we had cool deck names still like trix, fruity pebbles, angry hermit, etc. etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I thought tron was referring to the original tron movie from way way back. Could easily be voltron though. Don't really care all that much though.
Urzatron is a Voltron reference. Both things are assembling multiple things to make something even more powerful.
There are zero established modern decks that have original names, and the last standard deck I remember with an original name was Caw-blade, and even that is a stretch because really its still just saying "the stuff in this deck are Hawks "caw" and blades". When I say original names, I mean stuff like death and taxes, tin fins, cheerios, etc. Stuff like Scapeshift, Jund Monsters, or arguable even caw blade, are just describing whats important to the deck. And the Modern/standard decks like Soul Sisters, RDW, Solar Flare, Eggs, Tron, etc, are just names of the old extended decks, or legacy decks that they are emulating.
I am pretty sure Urzatron has had its name since Urza's block (or close to it). I remember seeing casual decks that casted the closest thing to Emrakul at the time, phyrexian Colossus (and other bad artifacts).
Deck names are as specific as they need to be. In standard you rarely have multiple decks in the same archetypes and colors, so Monoblack is sufficient as a deck name. Names like Death and Taxes exist because they need to distinguish the deck from other white decks, and the name describes the deck's strategy of "taxing" the opponent's resources.
This actually has nothing to do with D&Ts naming. But it is a nice coincidence. Death and Taxes got its name as a reference to an old famous saying, like a white weenie deck in a constructed format, there's only two things that are certain in life: death and taxes.
The reason it's named after the saying is because they saying is appropriate to the deck's function.
The reason it's named after the saying is because they saying is appropriate to the deck's function.
No the deck was named that because the idea was that the saying said basically, "two things in life are inevitable: death and taxes"... and a white weenie deck is also inevitable in a constructed format. Most of "taxing effects" were added later. Most of the hatebears the deck runs today, were not even in existence at the decks inception. Glowrider was not even used in many lists.
I could be wrong about this am pretty sure the deck's name, is what coined effects like sphere of resistance "taxing" effects.
The reason it's named after the saying is because they saying is appropriate to the deck's function.
No the deck was named that because the idea was that the saying said basically, "two things in life are inevitable: death and taxes"... and a white weenie deck is also inevitable in a constructed format. Most of "taxing effects" were added later. Most of the hatebears the deck runs today, were not even in existence at the decks inception. Glowrider was not even used in many lists.
I could be wrong about this am pretty sure the deck's name, is what coined effects like sphere of resistance "taxing" effects.
White Weenie and Death and Taxes are two different decks. The name was created after the idea of a hatebears deck (which didn't properly exist until after time spiral block), and while that might have been part of the reason it was chosen I still believe the reason the name has achieved widespread use is because it relates to the deck's function.
Death and Taxes got its name from its high level of inevitability, especially in the original Mangara/Karakas/Aether Vial versions. It simply has one of the best long games in Legacy.
'Only two things in life are inevitable, death and taxes'.
The deck has changed, and Mangara/Karakas is out of favor somewhat now (although sometimes still played) and the white creature-based disruptive aggro deck (Hatebears) now also uses the name as a reference to its ability to tax.
My biggest gripe is SCG not knowing the difference between TES and ANT. At least Cedric alludes to Bryant Cook playing "a version called the epic storm" and he seemed more knowledgibly about the deck. I could of honestly hugged him when I heard that, even though the deck name above said, "Ad Nauseam Tendrils".
My introduction to Legacy was watching an SCG feature match between TES and ANT two and a half years ago. So they used to differentiate them.
Not sure exactly why I'm compelled to join in, but yes, the DnT moniker comes directly from riffing off the old saying: "Only 2 things are inevitable - Death and Taxes...and White Weenie." Happy coincidence that the deck's function actually plays into the name.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Not sure exactly why I'm compelled to join in, but yes, the DnT moniker comes directly from riffing off the old saying: "Only 2 things are inevitable - Death and Taxes...and White Weenie." Happy coincidence that the deck's function actually plays into the name.
Yup. That's precisely where it comes from. I'd know ;p. Early early DnT builds weren't even super tax heavy like these days.
Not sure why people think D&T (or at least modern-day D&T) is a White Weenie deck. White Weenie is aggro. It focuses on dumping threats onto the board and killing you. D&T is control. It focuses on keeping you from playing Magic until it can kill you when it's good and ready. They're two very different things.
Not sure why people think D&T (or at least modern-day D&T) is a White Weenie deck. White Weenie is aggro. It focuses on dumping threats onto the board and killing you. D&T is control. It focuses on keeping you from playing Magic until it can kill you when it's good and ready. They're two very different things.
The Death and taxes deck and "white weenie" were not as defined as you have described back when the deck was conceived. And also, even modern day D&T still plays out like an aggro white weenie deck in many matchups. Although I agree, it is closer to a control/prison deck usually.
Not sure exactly why I'm compelled to join in, but yes, the DnT moniker comes directly from riffing off the old saying: "Only 2 things are inevitable - Death and Taxes...and White Weenie." Happy coincidence that the deck's function actually plays into the name.
This is correct. And like I said before, I could be wrong, but I don't remember effects like Glowrider or Rishadan Port being called "taxing" effects until AFTER death and taxes started running those cards. I had always called that sort of passive mana denial type effects "stax" effects, as a reference to Smokestack and the Stax archtype.
I enjoy the funky deck names, it adds a bit more fun to the game. Sadly I feel like the internet, live streaming, and to some extent the pro players, have killed the fun names in order to stream line deck names. If you want a different name to stick you have to hope you are the first to find the deck, and do extreamly well with it in a short time in order for it to stick around. Otherwise someone will come along, make a tweak and call it UBWRG Midrange.
I disagree with the notion that all names are just stuff like [color][archetype]. It's actually pretty common to name a deck after a prevelant mechanic. Jund Monsters is named after the monstrosity mechanic. They could've just as easily called it Jund Beatdown. Or Jund Planesalkers could've easily have been called Jund Control. So while it's not a highly original name, there is some room for creativity in naming some of these decks.
But the biggest reason is why the majority of people prefer this convention has nothing to do with new players and familiarity. It's simply to avoid confusion. We saw at Pro Tour a deck that was called Jund Planeswalkers get popularized with two decks in the top 8. I didn't see any of the Pro Tour coverage, but if I hear people talk about Jund Planeswalkers... I don't have to ask what kind of deck it is, because the description is in the name. If instead they called it "The Illuminati" or something like that... the first question people are going to ask is "what kind of deck is that?" "it's a Jund deck that plays a bunch of Planeswalkers" "well, let's just call it Jund Planeswalkers and stop wasting peoples time explaining what the name means."
I think there is something of value in being able to be creative with names. I'm not saying we shouldn't be allowed to have fun. But why can't you let the official name be "Jund Planeswalkers" and then between your friends come up with cool nicknames for the deck to joke about? In professional sports this sort of thing happens all the time. Players have "regular" names, but then in some cases can garner other nicknames over their careers.
The Death and taxes deck and "white weenie" were not as defined as you have described back when the deck was conceived. And also, even modern day D&T still plays out like an aggro white weenie deck in many matchups. Although I agree, it is closer to a control/prison deck usually.
It only really does that if you're against a combo deck you can't interact with outside of hate bears and you just need to kill it as soon as possible (so, like, Belcher or Oops All Spells or something). Even regular combo decks, you're still focused on denying them mana and slowing them down, which makes you aggro-control at best. Any deck playing the Wasteland/Port package can't help but play mana denial because limiting their options is simply too good a way to control your opponent's actions.
The only real "tax" effect I can think of in it is Thalia, because it makes them physically pay more rather than simply denying them access to resources. But the name is still a good reference to the deck's sheer inevitability, so it works from that angle pretty well.
Edit: I don't even know what grammar is tonight, apparently.
I disagree with the notion that all names are just stuff like [color][archetype]. It's actually pretty common to name a deck after a prevelant mechanic. Jund Monsters is named after the monstrosity mechanic. They could've just as easily called it Jund Beatdown. Or Jund Planesalkers could've easily have been called Jund Control. So while it's not a highly original name, there is some room for creativity in naming some of these decks.
Those are not creative names. They are just Color-Description of the deck. Jund Monsters is no better than Jund Beatdown. Like I said early, I think part of the issue is there has not been a memorable deck even worth given a creative name. Is anyone going to have fond memories of the pile of goodstuff mythic rares that is Jund Monsters in, I dont know, 5 years? I don't think so. Its a super boring, generic deck with nothing of interest about it.
It only really does that if you're against a combo deck you can't interact with outside of hate bears and you just need to kill it as soon as possible (so, like, Belcher or Oops All Spells or something). Even regular combo decks, you're still focused on denying them mana and slowing them down, which makes you aggro-control at best. Any deck playing the Wasteland/Port package can't help but play mana denial because limiting their options is simply too good a way to control your opponent's actions.
Maybe the definition of white weenie has changed, but I would feel comfortable calling any deck with 30+ 1-3 drop white creatures a white weenie deck. I don't think it would necessarily imply that it is some sort of all in aggro deck.
D&T did not actually play both Waste and port initially. They had too many things with WW in the cost or that cost 3+ mana. Sometimes they played one or the other, but very rarely both port and waste.
I disagree with the notion that all names are just stuff like [color][archetype]. It's actually pretty common to name a deck after a prevelant mechanic. Jund Monsters is named after the monstrosity mechanic. They could've just as easily called it Jund Beatdown. Or Jund Planesalkers could've easily have been called Jund Control. So while it's not a highly original name, there is some room for creativity in naming some of these decks.
Those are not creative names. They are just Color-Description of the deck. Jund Monsters is no better than Jund Beatdown. Like I said early, I think part of the issue is there has not been a memorable deck even worth given a creative name. Is anyone going to have fond memories of the pile of goodstuff mythic rares that is Jund Monsters in, I dont know, 5 years? I don't think so. Its a super boring, generic deck with nothing of interest about it.
Ok that's fair that those names aren't creative, but can't you see the issue that is created if we go back making deck names that don't give you any clue of what is in the deck? "Check out this new deck, it's called 'The Hangover 2 staring Bradley Cooper'" "What? What does that do?" "It's a Jund deck with Planewalkers".
The game has gotten really big over the past few years. You can't have Starcitygames writing articles with the headline "The Hangover took 2 of the top 8 at pro tour Portland" and confuse everyone the first time they hear about the deck.
It kind of sucks the creativity is lacking, but again... no reason you can't come up with your own names for the decks that you joke about with your LGS, or names for individual cards even.
Ok that's fair that those names aren't creative, but can't you see the issue that is created if we go back making deck names that don't give you any clue of what is in the deck? "Check out this new deck, it's called 'The Hangover 2 staring Bradley Cooper'" "What? What does that do?" "It's a Jund deck with Planewalkers".
The game has gotten really big over the past few years. You can't have Starcitygames writing articles with the headline "The Hangover took 2 of the top 8 at pro tour Portland" and confuse everyone the first time they hear about the deck.
It kind of sucks the creativity is lacking, but again... no reason you can't come up with your own names for the decks that you joke about with your LGS, or names for individual cards even.
I agree that there are great things about the "boring" naming of decks. They make the format more approachable to new players. And sometimes makes it easier to understand. The issue is going to arise if in 10 years, people are like "hey remember that awesome standard deck from back in the day? You know the one called Jund midrange or that other cool one, the GW aggro deck?" I would have no idea what deck they meant. But like I said, most new bland decks in standard these are not going to be remembered in 10 years anyways so I don't think the issue I described will even come up.
This is not an issue in legacy or vintage as much, but I guess I just miss when new decks were worth giving a cool memorable name to because the deck was cool and memorable.
I don't think it's really new that deck names are just named after whatever the deck contains. I remember an old inquest magazine from like '96 that highlighted 4 top strategies in what was then called Type II. The three I remember were:
"Necro" (mono black weenies & discard, featuring necropotence to put you wildly ahead in the mid-late game)
"Ernhamageddon" (GW beatdown featuring efficient creatures, specifically ernham djinn into a game-ending Armageddon)
"Stasis" (Guess what that's named after...)
Sure, there are many cool deck names in the history of the game, my favorite probably being the '94 world champion deck simply called "The Deck," but they're kind of the exceptions. The most original in modern is probably "tron," which was never really a legacy deck and isn't actually named after the urza's lands. None of this is stopping anyone from making a brew and calling it whatever they feel like locally, though.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
If I remember correctly, it comes from the Standard format around Kamigawa block, that included those lands. I don't know if it was referred to as Tron earlier than that, but I know it goes back at least that far. Tron is a reference to the cartoon Voltron, where the giant robot is assembled out of five robotic lions.
The deck was called eggs because it originally used Darkwater Egg and the rest of the egg cycle from Odyssey.
Given, I'm having to call back 18 years now, but I believe the Urza lands were called Tron (yup, a Voltron reference) from very early on. They were barely played for years, partly due to mana burn, partly due to a lack of quality land fetching, and partly due to a lack of decent artifacts that required that much ramp. Again, I'm nearly 2 decades removed, so I could be completely off base on that.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
This actually has nothing to do with D&Ts naming. But it is a nice coincidence. Death and Taxes got its name as a reference to an old famous saying, like a white weenie deck in a constructed format, there's only two things that are certain in life: death and taxes.
People are lazy in terms of coming up with cool deck names. They just don't care too. I wish we had cool deck names still like trix, fruity pebbles, angry hermit, etc. etc.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Urzatron is a Voltron reference. Both things are assembling multiple things to make something even more powerful.
There are zero established modern decks that have original names, and the last standard deck I remember with an original name was Caw-blade, and even that is a stretch because really its still just saying "the stuff in this deck are Hawks "caw" and blades". When I say original names, I mean stuff like death and taxes, tin fins, cheerios, etc. Stuff like Scapeshift, Jund Monsters, or arguable even caw blade, are just describing whats important to the deck. And the Modern/standard decks like Soul Sisters, RDW, Solar Flare, Eggs, Tron, etc, are just names of the old extended decks, or legacy decks that they are emulating.
The reason it's named after the saying is because they saying is appropriate to the deck's function.
No the deck was named that because the idea was that the saying said basically, "two things in life are inevitable: death and taxes"... and a white weenie deck is also inevitable in a constructed format. Most of "taxing effects" were added later. Most of the hatebears the deck runs today, were not even in existence at the decks inception. Glowrider was not even used in many lists.
I could be wrong about this am pretty sure the deck's name, is what coined effects like sphere of resistance "taxing" effects.
White Weenie and Death and Taxes are two different decks. The name was created after the idea of a hatebears deck (which didn't properly exist until after time spiral block), and while that might have been part of the reason it was chosen I still believe the reason the name has achieved widespread use is because it relates to the deck's function.
'Only two things in life are inevitable, death and taxes'.
The deck has changed, and Mangara/Karakas is out of favor somewhat now (although sometimes still played) and the white creature-based disruptive aggro deck (Hatebears) now also uses the name as a reference to its ability to tax.
My introduction to Legacy was watching an SCG feature match between TES and ANT two and a half years ago. So they used to differentiate them.
The only things assured in life are Death, Taxes, and White Weenie in Legacy.
While close to what others are saying, its a slightly different interpretation. Still very original.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Yup. That's precisely where it comes from. I'd know ;p. Early early DnT builds weren't even super tax heavy like these days.
The Death and taxes deck and "white weenie" were not as defined as you have described back when the deck was conceived. And also, even modern day D&T still plays out like an aggro white weenie deck in many matchups. Although I agree, it is closer to a control/prison deck usually.
This is correct. And like I said before, I could be wrong, but I don't remember effects like Glowrider or Rishadan Port being called "taxing" effects until AFTER death and taxes started running those cards. I had always called that sort of passive mana denial type effects "stax" effects, as a reference to Smokestack and the Stax archtype.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
But the biggest reason is why the majority of people prefer this convention has nothing to do with new players and familiarity. It's simply to avoid confusion. We saw at Pro Tour a deck that was called Jund Planeswalkers get popularized with two decks in the top 8. I didn't see any of the Pro Tour coverage, but if I hear people talk about Jund Planeswalkers... I don't have to ask what kind of deck it is, because the description is in the name. If instead they called it "The Illuminati" or something like that... the first question people are going to ask is "what kind of deck is that?" "it's a Jund deck that plays a bunch of Planeswalkers" "well, let's just call it Jund Planeswalkers and stop wasting peoples time explaining what the name means."
I think there is something of value in being able to be creative with names. I'm not saying we shouldn't be allowed to have fun. But why can't you let the official name be "Jund Planeswalkers" and then between your friends come up with cool nicknames for the deck to joke about? In professional sports this sort of thing happens all the time. Players have "regular" names, but then in some cases can garner other nicknames over their careers.
It only really does that if you're against a combo deck you can't interact with outside of hate bears and you just need to kill it as soon as possible (so, like, Belcher or Oops All Spells or something). Even regular combo decks, you're still focused on denying them mana and slowing them down, which makes you aggro-control at best. Any deck playing the Wasteland/Port package can't help but play mana denial because limiting their options is simply too good a way to control your opponent's actions.
The only real "tax" effect I can think of in it is Thalia, because it makes them physically pay more rather than simply denying them access to resources. But the name is still a good reference to the deck's sheer inevitability, so it works from that angle pretty well.
Edit: I don't even know what grammar is tonight, apparently.
Those are not creative names. They are just Color-Description of the deck. Jund Monsters is no better than Jund Beatdown. Like I said early, I think part of the issue is there has not been a memorable deck even worth given a creative name. Is anyone going to have fond memories of the pile of goodstuff mythic rares that is Jund Monsters in, I dont know, 5 years? I don't think so. Its a super boring, generic deck with nothing of interest about it.
Maybe the definition of white weenie has changed, but I would feel comfortable calling any deck with 30+ 1-3 drop white creatures a white weenie deck. I don't think it would necessarily imply that it is some sort of all in aggro deck.
D&T did not actually play both Waste and port initially. They had too many things with WW in the cost or that cost 3+ mana. Sometimes they played one or the other, but very rarely both port and waste.
Ok that's fair that those names aren't creative, but can't you see the issue that is created if we go back making deck names that don't give you any clue of what is in the deck? "Check out this new deck, it's called 'The Hangover 2 staring Bradley Cooper'" "What? What does that do?" "It's a Jund deck with Planewalkers".
The game has gotten really big over the past few years. You can't have Starcitygames writing articles with the headline "The Hangover took 2 of the top 8 at pro tour Portland" and confuse everyone the first time they hear about the deck.
It kind of sucks the creativity is lacking, but again... no reason you can't come up with your own names for the decks that you joke about with your LGS, or names for individual cards even.
I agree that there are great things about the "boring" naming of decks. They make the format more approachable to new players. And sometimes makes it easier to understand. The issue is going to arise if in 10 years, people are like "hey remember that awesome standard deck from back in the day? You know the one called Jund midrange or that other cool one, the GW aggro deck?" I would have no idea what deck they meant. But like I said, most new bland decks in standard these are not going to be remembered in 10 years anyways so I don't think the issue I described will even come up.
This is not an issue in legacy or vintage as much, but I guess I just miss when new decks were worth giving a cool memorable name to because the deck was cool and memorable.
"Necro" (mono black weenies & discard, featuring necropotence to put you wildly ahead in the mid-late game)
"Ernhamageddon" (GW beatdown featuring efficient creatures, specifically ernham djinn into a game-ending Armageddon)
"Stasis" (Guess what that's named after...)
Sure, there are many cool deck names in the history of the game, my favorite probably being the '94 world champion deck simply called "The Deck," but they're kind of the exceptions. The most original in modern is probably "tron," which was never really a legacy deck and isn't actually named after the urza's lands. None of this is stopping anyone from making a brew and calling it whatever they feel like locally, though.