I'm sure that everyone, if not most, have certain things they loathe in an opponent. What's yours?
Personally I have a friend who I duel regularly. Now he plays a RB Rakdos deck OR a R Burn deck. Now I can't stand his instant damage because there is little I can do to counter it. However I still play him and triumph somewhere between 40-50% of the time. If I lose, I lose, I maintain my play until the final nail is in the coffin. Now he, on the other hand, will literally up and quit if I put certain cards on the field. Worse yet there have been a few times where he will just quit and say he could of won. A few times he'd show me how and that makes the victory feel empty, and I'd rather lose than have a hollow victory.
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"Why do you make so many decks?"
"Because if I use the same one more than 3 times in a row I get bored. Why DON'T you make more decks?"
"Because I like my deck"
-sigh-
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Commander UUUPut That Thing Back Where It Came From or So Help MeUUU RUXClockworkXUR BBBPay to PlayBBB WUBLife ArchitectBUW
I get annoyed when opppnenets complain about the deck or cards I'm playing. Fortunately that doesn't happen much when I play Legacy, but EDH players are a different breed...
"Good game" after a total curbstomp. Or, well, smarmy behaviour in general, but examples like that are really grating to me. Yes, you won a matchup that's 20/80 for me, or I had to mull into oblivion multiple games in a row, or you turn 1'd me with a combo deck. No, it was not a "good" game in the slightest. Don't insult me by acting like it was. Elitist behaviour is similar but slightly less grating to me. You know the kind of player I'm talking about. They'll be relatively friendly, right up until they rules-shark you in a really jerky way, or try to fish for the judges to give you game losses over trivial things, or accuse you of "cheating" for minor errors. Amusingly, they'll try to get IPG penalties applied in FNM (which uses a whole other judging document that's nowhere near as strict), try to "correct" judges on things, and generally betray their lack of substantial knowledge every time they act up.
People using chewing tobacco or listening to music. Those are my pet peeves while playing. The card area at the LGS is loud enough and it's impossible to hear you while you have crap in your mouth. Plus the odor.
Otherwise, I'm a pretty good sport about all the other random crap people do.
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Commander (EDH) Decks BRGProssh, Skyraider of KherBRG BWRAlesha, Who Smiles at DeathBWR BGVarolz, the Scar-StripedBG
It bothers me the most when an opponent plays a very poorly built homebrew deck, then proceeds to whine when they lose. In the same vein, I hate how a significant portion of Commander players whine about what isn't "fun."
It bothers me the most when an opponent plays a very poorly built homebrew deck, then proceeds to whine when they lose. In the same vein, I hate how a significant portion of Commander players whine about what isn't "fun."
This one bothers me the most, especially since I run what they would consider to be "unoriginal" decks. How dare I counter that one piece vital to your deck's combo, but that's okay, I bet you are going to waste the next ten minutes of my life telling me how badly I would've lost if your deck went off.
The often vague "spirit of EDH" is one of the reasons I refuse to play that format.
In every competitive game in western culture since the 1500s, it's been polite to say good game afterwords. Getting upset about it is insane.
It's not about saying "good game", it's about how you say it and under what circumstances it was said.
It's like the the old joke about how "God bless your soul" is code for "[Expletive] you" in the South. Just because you're saying "Good game" doesn't mean you can't be perfectly obvious that you mean something else.
I like "Good game" after, say, a soccer game or a hockey game, when there's some ceremony involved. The players get a chance to gather themselves, then they meet and shake hands in an organized way. The ceremony takes a lot of any possible the sting out of the words, because it's separated in time. On the other hand, if "Good game" was something you said while you were in the middle of the game-winning point, it seems perfunctory and superficial - it even has some elements of showboating. Most sports avoid this - you score your point, you end the game, you celebrate wildly, and *then* you and your opponent collect yourselves and shake hands with some solemnity. You don't immediately go shaking the hands of your opponents while still celebrating the point.
Similarly, in a game of Magic, "Good game" is great after lethal has been dealt, or the concession achieved, and the match slip signed with the decks collected and the table cleared. The separation in time makes the handshake more of a ceremony. On the other hand, saying "Good game" while you're still turning your creatures sideways seems perfunctory and superficial, as above. Players who say "Good game" and shove out their hand before the game has even properly concluded are giving the impression that they just want the whole thing over and done with as quickly as possible.
There's a lot of personal feeling involved in something like this; when it's appropriate to say "Good game", when it might be better to just offer your hand, so on and so forth. No one's ever going to come up with an all-encompassing set of rules for every situation. I just personally prefer to give my opponents a moment (really, just a few seconds or so) to mentally come to terms with the loss before offering my hand and saying "Good game", and I appreciate when my opponents show me the same courtesy. \
In every competitive game in western culture since the 1500s, it's been polite to say good game afterwords. Getting upset about it is insane.
There really is a big difference between getting a "no-game" and the opponent calls it "good game" and an actual fair an nice game.
Its just how its presented.
If you clearly see, the opponent didnt have lands, didnt cast anything of meaning and simply got crushed by your "good" draw, then its not a "good game" , if you clearly see they are frustrated how the game turned out, the "gg" is just stupid, in worst it will just make the person angry.
I tend to ask the person for the starting hand to get into a small discussion if i would have used a mulligan, some hands are fine to keep, but they tend to get the dead draws like land-land-land, or no lands even if its unreal.
So yes, at least get the manners to not put the salt into someones frustration, a "gg" can be fine, or it can not.
It bothers me the most when an opponent plays a very poorly built homebrew deck, then proceeds to whine when they lose. In the same vein, I hate how a significant portion of Commander players whine about what isn't "fun."
This one bothers me the most, especially since I run what they would consider to be "unoriginal" decks. How dare I counter that one piece vital to your deck's combo, but that's okay, I bet you are going to waste the next ten minutes of my life telling me how badly I would've lost if your deck went off.
Works both ways. Come to an FNM with a rogue/homebrew deck to destroy the local meta and you do and you get called a terrible player because you dont play a net deck, even though I just walked through 5 rounds of play and played a different deck every round...without a net deck.
Maybe if everyone just played net decks the game would be better, for some...;)
Oh, and the constant whining about people whining in EDH. We get it, the competitive mindset is baffled by social gaming.
What? Whining comes from both sides. But I'm sure we'll fix it by being biased.
After playing both non-EDH and traditional EDH for years I believe dealing with whining is part of the multi-player experience.
Politics are the best part of 4-player EDH! If someone isn't getting pounded into oblivion or whining I seriously don't think they are playing right. I was playing a Doran deck and I had a ton of creatures on the field by turn 5 and was ready to swing for lethal on someone but then our resident blue player dropped a moat just so I couldn't hit anybody. That was a fun 10 turns of doing nothing.
My big peev is when players ridicule deck/card choices during a game. I find it lame to do it normally because I'm cool with people playing what they want to play, but doing it during a game is just plan bad. I don't mind if it's constructive stuff after a game though.
I also hate the "I must always win" mentality in casual groups. Sure, it's fun to win, but I also really like playing the game no matter the outcome. If someone starts getting butt hurt in casual it turns a fun game into awkward tension.
People who don't know how their own cards work. That is all.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
In every competitive game in western culture since the 1500s, it's been polite to say good game afterwords. Getting upset about it is insane.
Don't get me wrong, a decisive victory can still merit a "good game." The distinction is that it actually has to be a game. There should be at least some degree of interaction, and each player should make at least a few meaningful plays that could conceivably affect the game state. After a game that amounts to glorified goldfishing, telling your opponent "good game" might feel like a perfunctory bit of social custom to you, but to them it can easily feel like they're rubbing it in. "Yeah, I completely smashed you, but it was still a good game [for me]." Communication isn't just about what the speaker intends, but what the listener interprets, after all.
My big peev is when players ridicule deck/card choices during a game. I find it lame to do it normally because I'm cool with people playing what they want to play, but doing it during a game is just plan bad. I don't mind if it's constructive stuff after a game though.
Yeah, "don't insult your opponent's deck/cards to their face" is one of those things I just treat as a golden rule. Even when they clearly have no business being at an event (like with someone who played a 100-card pile of random janky commons at a competitive Legacy event a few weeks ago), you don't go there. That's just basic sportsmanship. Make fun of them with your friends on your own time away from the person, whatever, that's your decision. But don't insult them or their cards/deck to their face. Hell, if I caught someone going "lol your deck sucks" at FNM, I'd sit them down and have a talk with them about how that creates a hostile and unwelcoming atmosphere and drives away casual players. The thing is, if you're playing a casual brew and consistently going 2-3 or worse, you know your deck "sucks" by competitive standards, but you don't care because you simply enjoy playing the game. There's nothing to gain by ridiculing someone over that. At a competitive REL event I'd just give them an Unsporting Conduct Minor warning and move on.
Yeah, that is the exact kind thing I'd give someone a strongly-worded caution for at FNM, or a USC Minor warning (with game losses if they keep it up) at competitive REL. Obviously, we can't prohibit people from saying anything that might be construed as negative, but common sense has to come into play at some point, and there has to be a line where one has to say, as a judge, that such behaviour is unacceptable and won't be tolerated.
Just people in general who take it way too seriously. Oh man, your cold attitude and poker face are really spicing up this card game, bro.
That's part of the game for some people. Being able to be detached and make decisions based on strategy/probability and not giving away information are both important aspects of how some people wish to play. Why is that a bad thing?
My big peev is when players ridicule deck/card choices during a game. I find it lame to do it normally because I'm cool with people playing what they want to play, but doing it during a game is just plan bad. I don't mind if it's constructive stuff after a game though.
Yeah, "don't insult your opponent's deck/cards to their face" is one of those things I just treat as a golden rule. Even when they clearly have no business being at an event (like with someone who played a 100-card pile of random janky commons at a competitive Legacy event a few weeks ago), you don't go there. That's just basic sportsmanship. Make fun of them with your friends on your own time away from the person, whatever, that's your decision. But don't insult them or their cards/deck to their face. Hell, if I caught someone going "lol your deck sucks" at FNM, I'd sit them down and have a talk with them about how that creates a hostile and unwelcoming atmosphere and drives away casual players. The thing is, if you're playing a casual brew and consistently going 2-3 or worse, you know your deck "sucks" by competitive standards, but you don't care because you simply enjoy playing the game. There's nothing to gain by ridiculing someone over that. At a competitive REL event I'd just give them an Unsporting Conduct Minor warning and move on.
I should clarify, that is bad and, of course, very unsportsman-like, but the particular instances at my LGS are a bit different than direct insults. Example being someone saying "My aggro build is far superior to your aggro build" or "Why are you running that? You need (insert expensive chase rare)!" It comes off as more of them inflating their ego while, somewhat, passively insulting their opponent. It's pretty annoying. It doesn't happen a lot though, just occasional instances with a few of the players.
Yeah, "don't insult your opponent's deck/cards to their face" is one of those things I just treat as a golden rule. Even when they clearly have no business being at an event (like with someone who played a 100-card pile of random janky commons at a competitive Legacy event a few weeks ago), you don't go there. That's just basic sportsmanship. Make fun of them with your friends on your own time away from the person, whatever, that's your decision. But don't insult them or their cards/deck to their face. Hell, if I caught someone going "lol your deck sucks" at FNM, I'd sit them down and have a talk with them about how that creates a hostile and unwelcoming atmosphere and drives away casual players. The thing is, if you're playing a casual brew and consistently going 2-3 or worse, you know your deck "sucks" by competitive standards, but you don't care because you simply enjoy playing the game. There's nothing to gain by ridiculing someone over that. At a competitive REL event I'd just give them an Unsporting Conduct Minor warning and move on.
This is exactly why I am no longer going to the LGS I previously went. There is this one guy who is just a jerk for the lack of better terms. It got to the point where I felt that the environment is hostile enough that I no longer wanted to go to this store just because of the possibility of facing this guy as an opponent.
Yeah, "don't insult your opponent's deck/cards to their face" is one of those things I just treat as a golden rule. Even when they clearly have no business being at an event (like with someone who played a 100-card pile of random janky commons at a competitive Legacy event a few weeks ago), you don't go there. That's just basic sportsmanship. Make fun of them with your friends on your own time away from the person, whatever, that's your decision. But don't insult them or their cards/deck to their face. Hell, if I caught someone going "lol your deck sucks" at FNM, I'd sit them down and have a talk with them about how that creates a hostile and unwelcoming atmosphere and drives away casual players. The thing is, if you're playing a casual brew and consistently going 2-3 or worse, you know your deck "sucks" by competitive standards, but you don't care because you simply enjoy playing the game. There's nothing to gain by ridiculing someone over that. At a competitive REL event I'd just give them an Unsporting Conduct Minor warning and move on.
This is exactly why I am no longer going to the LGS I previously went. There is this one guy who is just a jerk for the lack of better terms. It got to the point where I felt that the environment is hostile enough that I no longer wanted to go to this store just because I don't want to face this guy as an opponent.
If it was that much of a problem, did you talk to the owner/managers about that? If it got to a hostile point then I'm sure they would want to know about it so they don't lose future business and maybe talk to the guy.
Personally I have a friend who I duel regularly. Now he plays a RB Rakdos deck OR a R Burn deck. Now I can't stand his instant damage because there is little I can do to counter it. However I still play him and triumph somewhere between 40-50% of the time. If I lose, I lose, I maintain my play until the final nail is in the coffin. Now he, on the other hand, will literally up and quit if I put certain cards on the field. Worse yet there have been a few times where he will just quit and say he could of won. A few times he'd show me how and that makes the victory feel empty, and I'd rather lose than have a hollow victory.
"Because if I use the same one more than 3 times in a row I get bored. Why DON'T you make more decks?"
"Because I like my deck"
-sigh-
Standard
WWWCure and CompoundWWW
UUUTurn TideUUU
BUDrifting DeathUB
RUGTime StepGUR
Commander
UUUPut That Thing Back Where It Came From or So Help MeUUU
RUXClockworkXUR
BBBPay to PlayBBB
WUBLife ArchitectBUW
Retired
UBMillipedeBU
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
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RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Otherwise, I'm a pretty good sport about all the other random crap people do.
BRGProssh, Skyraider of KherBRG
BWRAlesha, Who Smiles at DeathBWR
BGVarolz, the Scar-StripedBG
Give Zaliki a CardI must have all the cats!
Yes and no, often times the phrase is said in a very condescending manner.
This one bothers me the most, especially since I run what they would consider to be "unoriginal" decks. How dare I counter that one piece vital to your deck's combo, but that's okay, I bet you are going to waste the next ten minutes of my life telling me how badly I would've lost if your deck went off.
The often vague "spirit of EDH" is one of the reasons I refuse to play that format.
It's not about saying "good game", it's about how you say it and under what circumstances it was said.
It's like the the old joke about how "God bless your soul" is code for "[Expletive] you" in the South. Just because you're saying "Good game" doesn't mean you can't be perfectly obvious that you mean something else.
I like "Good game" after, say, a soccer game or a hockey game, when there's some ceremony involved. The players get a chance to gather themselves, then they meet and shake hands in an organized way. The ceremony takes a lot of any possible the sting out of the words, because it's separated in time. On the other hand, if "Good game" was something you said while you were in the middle of the game-winning point, it seems perfunctory and superficial - it even has some elements of showboating. Most sports avoid this - you score your point, you end the game, you celebrate wildly, and *then* you and your opponent collect yourselves and shake hands with some solemnity. You don't immediately go shaking the hands of your opponents while still celebrating the point.
Similarly, in a game of Magic, "Good game" is great after lethal has been dealt, or the concession achieved, and the match slip signed with the decks collected and the table cleared. The separation in time makes the handshake more of a ceremony. On the other hand, saying "Good game" while you're still turning your creatures sideways seems perfunctory and superficial, as above. Players who say "Good game" and shove out their hand before the game has even properly concluded are giving the impression that they just want the whole thing over and done with as quickly as possible.
There's a lot of personal feeling involved in something like this; when it's appropriate to say "Good game", when it might be better to just offer your hand, so on and so forth. No one's ever going to come up with an all-encompassing set of rules for every situation. I just personally prefer to give my opponents a moment (really, just a few seconds or so) to mentally come to terms with the loss before offering my hand and saying "Good game", and I appreciate when my opponents show me the same courtesy. \
There really is a big difference between getting a "no-game" and the opponent calls it "good game" and an actual fair an nice game.
Its just how its presented.
If you clearly see, the opponent didnt have lands, didnt cast anything of meaning and simply got crushed by your "good" draw, then its not a "good game" , if you clearly see they are frustrated how the game turned out, the "gg" is just stupid, in worst it will just make the person angry.
I tend to ask the person for the starting hand to get into a small discussion if i would have used a mulligan, some hands are fine to keep, but they tend to get the dead draws like land-land-land, or no lands even if its unreal.
So yes, at least get the manners to not put the salt into someones frustration, a "gg" can be fine, or it can not.
Especially an early
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Works both ways. Come to an FNM with a rogue/homebrew deck to destroy the local meta and you do and you get called a terrible player because you dont play a net deck, even though I just walked through 5 rounds of play and played a different deck every round...without a net deck.
Maybe if everyone just played net decks the game would be better, for some...;)
If I'm the only one playing a disruptive deck, maybe you shouldn't attack me all out and kingmake the other guy.
Oh, and the constant whining about people whining in EDH. We get it, the competitive mindset is baffled by social gaming.
Inappropriate Language -Cythare
What? Whining comes from both sides. But I'm sure we'll fix it by being biased.
After playing both non-EDH and traditional EDH for years I believe dealing with whining is part of the multi-player experience.
Politics are the best part of 4-player EDH! If someone isn't getting pounded into oblivion or whining I seriously don't think they are playing right. I was playing a Doran deck and I had a ton of creatures on the field by turn 5 and was ready to swing for lethal on someone but then our resident blue player dropped a moat just so I couldn't hit anybody. That was a fun 10 turns of doing nothing.
I also hate the "I must always win" mentality in casual groups. Sure, it's fun to win, but I also really like playing the game no matter the outcome. If someone starts getting butt hurt in casual it turns a fun game into awkward tension.
On phasing:
Don't get me wrong, a decisive victory can still merit a "good game." The distinction is that it actually has to be a game. There should be at least some degree of interaction, and each player should make at least a few meaningful plays that could conceivably affect the game state. After a game that amounts to glorified goldfishing, telling your opponent "good game" might feel like a perfunctory bit of social custom to you, but to them it can easily feel like they're rubbing it in. "Yeah, I completely smashed you, but it was still a good game [for me]." Communication isn't just about what the speaker intends, but what the listener interprets, after all.
Yeah, "don't insult your opponent's deck/cards to their face" is one of those things I just treat as a golden rule. Even when they clearly have no business being at an event (like with someone who played a 100-card pile of random janky commons at a competitive Legacy event a few weeks ago), you don't go there. That's just basic sportsmanship. Make fun of them with your friends on your own time away from the person, whatever, that's your decision. But don't insult them or their cards/deck to their face. Hell, if I caught someone going "lol your deck sucks" at FNM, I'd sit them down and have a talk with them about how that creates a hostile and unwelcoming atmosphere and drives away casual players. The thing is, if you're playing a casual brew and consistently going 2-3 or worse, you know your deck "sucks" by competitive standards, but you don't care because you simply enjoy playing the game. There's nothing to gain by ridiculing someone over that. At a competitive REL event I'd just give them an Unsporting Conduct Minor warning and move on.
I'm going to have to ask [citation] for that.
"Oh, my 15cent card just killed your $50 one. Don't you feel so stupid about spending so much money?"
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
That's part of the game for some people. Being able to be detached and make decisions based on strategy/probability and not giving away information are both important aspects of how some people wish to play. Why is that a bad thing?
I should clarify, that is bad and, of course, very unsportsman-like, but the particular instances at my LGS are a bit different than direct insults. Example being someone saying "My aggro build is far superior to your aggro build" or "Why are you running that? You need (insert expensive chase rare)!" It comes off as more of them inflating their ego while, somewhat, passively insulting their opponent. It's pretty annoying. It doesn't happen a lot though, just occasional instances with a few of the players.
This is exactly why I am no longer going to the LGS I previously went. There is this one guy who is just a jerk for the lack of better terms. It got to the point where I felt that the environment is hostile enough that I no longer wanted to go to this store just because of the possibility of facing this guy as an opponent.
If it was that much of a problem, did you talk to the owner/managers about that? If it got to a hostile point then I'm sure they would want to know about it so they don't lose future business and maybe talk to the guy.