I haven't been playing for too long, but so far it's this - when you beat an opponent, they don't say "good game" (or any equivalent) and instead start flipping cards off the top of their deck going "Wow! I was just X away from winning. Look! I would've done this and then this and then, oh my God, I would've gotten THIS!"
It just seems like such a stupid thing to say when 1) yes, you would've won if you drew the exact cards you needed when you needed them - that's the same for anyone, and 2) yes, those would've been some awesome plays if you completely disregard the fact that I would be interacting with you at the same time.
It also just comes off as mildly rude. It's like saying, "you didn't win because you played well, you won because I just didn't get what I needed". Sure, some games boil down to extremely bad luck. But I've had people do this to me when the game was very intense and very close.
I haven't been playing for too long, but so far it's this - when you beat an opponent, they don't say "good game" (or any equivalent) and instead start flipping cards off the top of their deck going "Wow! I was just X away from winning. Look! I would've done this and then this and then, oh my God, I would've gotten THIS!"
It just seems like such a stupid thing to say when 1) yes, you would've won if you drew the exact cards you needed when you needed them - that's the same for anyone, and 2) yes, those would've been some awesome plays if you completely disregard the fact that I would be interacting with you at the same time.
It also just comes off as mildly rude. It's like saying, "you didn't win because you played well, you won because I just didn't get what I needed". Sure, some games boil down to extremely bad luck. But I've had people do this to me when the game was very intense and very close.
Good point. Another counter-argument to "I would have won if I drew X!" is: my deck is supposed to win as fast as possible, to prevent you from drawing a lot of your good cards. Of course you didn't get the chance to draw all the good stuff.
As for me, I just reveal the top 1 or 2 and basically have the attitude "aw shucks, that would have been great!" but in a casual way, not making a legit argument to defend myself. Just like "Oh man, that topdeck Stormbreath would have been nice" but I always make my tone clear that I'm just messing around I mostly do that with players I know, as well as for cards in my hand.
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EDH/Commander
UBR Sedris RG Omnath, Locus of Rage UB The Scarab God RUG Maelstrom Wanderer WU Dragonlord Ojutai
Audibly flicking the cards in hard, being rude (especially to new players)
The only thing I don't like that I feel is pointless is when players do the kibler shuffle, but for no other reason then they watched somebody on SCG stream do it.
Nothing really peculiar, I just like sportsmanship and a good attitude.
Don't ask judges for strategy advice. Even if it is not competitive REL.
When it comes to lower-level events like FNM, where there is a focus on education, it can become quite difficult to walk this tightrope from the judge's perspective. For instance, "Judge, can I name Underworld Connections with Pithing Needle?" At Competitive REL, you just tell them yes and then hang around to explain that interaction in the next judge call that'll be happening in just a moment. At Regular REL, though, you have to get a bit creative because telling the player "yes" just results in bad feelings and the sense that the judge "lied" when they find it doesn't work as intended. So you have to find careful ways to word it, like, "You can, but does Underworld Connections have any activated abilities?"
The last thing you want is for players to feel like you've lied to them, and the second to last thing you want is for players to feel like you're giving out strategic advice while on the clock. And sometimes you just have to finagle it a bit to make it work.
That said, it's also fine to ask a judge before or after the event if there's anything you could be doing better. But if someone calls "judge!" and proceeds to ask me if it's a good idea to do something, they don't get to hear anything except, "Only you can fight forest fires make that decision."
I have an Azami EDH, and this one guy at my local FNM kept trying to convince me that she is banned and how I'm cheating... He wouldn't just let me have my victory with my deck I worked hard building!
People who doubt my honesty in deckbuilding- ones that can't believe Spell Snare exist - "you've made it to beat my deck, there can't be any hard counters in Modern for 1 mana", people refusing to believe Lord of Atlantis (7ed) is merfolk - "his creature type just says Lord"... Edit: plus ones that ask me to translate card from English, than say "that can't be" and call TO anyway. Why asking?
Plus "that's unfair and should be banned" crowd. Yeah, big scary Spreading Seas.
So you have to find careful ways to word it, like, "You can, but does Underworld Connections have any activated abilities?"
At the M15 prerelease, this kept coming up with Cone of Flame. I had to keep answering "Yes, you have to have three targets for the spell in order to cast it. Yes, they all have to be different." I so wanted to sneak in an "and in a pinch, you can ping yourself with the 1 to get the 2 and 3 on their guys," but I resisted.
Another thing I find annoying is the people who are definitely cheating. One guy at my local FNM will just look through his deck randomly and put cards on top... The same guy will also have 4 or 5 different sleeves for each deck... I can't tell if he's being lazy or cheating with the sleeves though. Still annoying either way.
Opponents who constantly miss their triggers on their turn and automatically do them during your turn.
Also, people who are constantly trying to hurry me up. I don't care that you're playing aggro and you want time to browse the store during rounds, I'm going to take my time and think about my moves.
Yeah, I'd get a judge to have a talk with him over that one. A deck's sleeves should be as uniform as possible, and while FNM is more lax than competitive events, there are still standards that have to be upheld.
#1 pet hate in non-competitive games: People who feel conceeding is unsporting/wrong/wimpy.
This is worst when one player is using a strategy that leads to long games where the winning player is pretty obvious from the middle or early turns (Prison, land destruction, 'counter ALL the spells', etc), or a deck that generates massive haymaker plays that don't end the game (original Elspeth ultimate). If I'm losing to a deck like that, I'll scoop and offer a rematch, and I definitely won't 'play it out' to let the person with the Elspeth emblem cast their Emrakul.
These people are the worst to play against when I'm using one of those 'oppressive decks' too. They will sit there for ages while you try to draw your finisher in your counterspell overload deck, whining the whole time. The interesting turns in those games are usually turns 1-8, not turns 14 to 25.
#1 pet hate in competitive games: People that blame luck when they lose due to deck construction issues.
i hate fighting someone who's so afraid of losing, every time on pressured he always stalling the game,
then when i ask him to play faster, he will argue if he is still thinking his move.
and because the magic community on my place is so small just about 100++ people,
the judge won't banned him.
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
This may sound pretty broad, but I don't like it when an opponent doesn't have any cheer. Sometimes they just never have a positive tone of voice, never grin or smile or make jokes, and always look irritated. There's someone at one of my LGSs who isn't rude, but he always seems grouchy when I play against him and the game feels kind of awkward and tense, whether I'm winning or losing. I guess players are that way if they take the game too seriously or had a bad day.
Sometimes when at EDH League, most of the people there I know and are fun people, but occassional there's that new guy who looks super frickin serious. Exactly as you described. One thing I like to do when I'm goofing around with people I know, I'll put my hand on the top card of their library and say, "Is it cool if I look at the top card of your library?" Most of the time they usually say yes. Sometimes they'll look at the top card of my library. Or they'll bat my hand away. It's all in good fun. When there's that super serious looking dude, and if I do it to him, he'll scan the battlefield if I had something in play that allows me to Fate Seal or something. "Do you have something that allows you to do that?" When I tell him "No I just want to look. Just curious." The person, you can see them get mad. You can see it in their face. But sometimes they'll realize how serious they are taking a casual game and hopefully break out into a smile. Other times they will become even more upset and annoyed, and my friends and I know that's the type of player we don't want in our games. It's kinda like a litmus test.
I've played a game with someone like you, and I must say, I can see why he would do that. He's there to play magic, and even at a casual level you should obey the games rules, if you want to look at peoples decks during a game, build a deck that allows you to.
The worst trait I find in other players is probably luck. I mean just look the PT this last weekend, the amount of time Orange, or the control player who won topped deck a sphinxes rev or verdict was obscene.
Though that doesn't compare to the one player in my local meta who always, always has the top deck of the spell which he has as a 1 of in his deck to counter mine. The amount of times when he was playing his hexproof deck and topped deck his one gods willing the turn before I was able to set up lethal non targeting damage to his creature.
Yeah, I find that kind of annoying. I'm light-hearted when I play, but I still like to obey the rules. Even if it's a casual thing, part of what makes it fun is actually following the way the game should be played. Saying that someone is no fun because they want to try and do things properly is rude, to say the least.
This may sound pretty broad, but I don't like it when an opponent doesn't have any cheer. Sometimes they just never have a positive tone of voice, never grin or smile or make jokes, and always look irritated. There's someone at one of my LGSs who isn't rude, but he always seems grouchy when I play against him and the game feels kind of awkward and tense, whether I'm winning or losing. I guess players are that way if they take the game too seriously or had a bad day.
BINGO!! I don't understand people who spend time, money and effort to not ENJOY the game! It's an awesome game, it gives you so many chances to talk and be jovial with your opponent. But nooo, I see soo many people just grinding through the game with this GRIM look on their face... and this is at FNM's etc. Get over it dudes!!
This may sound pretty broad, but I don't like it when an opponent doesn't have any cheer. Sometimes they just never have a positive tone of voice, never grin or smile or make jokes, and always look irritated. There's someone at one of my LGSs who isn't rude, but he always seems grouchy when I play against him and the game feels kind of awkward and tense, whether I'm winning or losing. I guess players are that way if they take the game too seriously or had a bad day.
BINGO!! I don't understand people who spend time, money and effort to not ENJOY the game! It's an awesome game, it gives you so many chances to talk and be jovial with your opponent. But nooo, I see soo many people just grinding through the game with this GRIM look on their face... and this is at FNM's etc. Get over it dudes!!
Good post.
Thanks. Though to be fair, it's partly because of how well or not I know the opponent. Just yesterday, the particular person was having a better time against another opponent, so that's a factor. But still!
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EDH/Commander
UBR Sedris RG Omnath, Locus of Rage UB The Scarab God RUG Maelstrom Wanderer WU Dragonlord Ojutai
My number one pet peeve is people smoking their electronic cigarettes at the card station. They smell weird and can be extraordinarily distracting. I've actually called a judge on someone for constantly blowing massive clouds of vapor in my face and refusing to stop when I asked him to tone it down (and that person was told to stop or get dinged for unsportsmanlike conduct).
But in terms of most casual games, I'm not a fan of when someone takes an action way to far (ie disproportionate retribution). I get that you may be salty when I wrathed your board. You were going to eliminate one of the players from the game. There's no need for you to start shouting in my face and making jerk-off motions. No, you are not welcome back at this card table.
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Definitely people who are sore losers, especially when there isn't much on the line (being really sad/frustrated after losing your win-and-in for the top 8 of a PTQ or a GP day 2, or anything above that, is understandable). I mean, it's really disrespectful to the person who just beat you, and besides, if you spend a bunch of time sulking and trying to convince yourself that your opponent was terrible at Magic and you just drew badly or made one small mistake, you're going to get seriously tilted.
Actual conversation with a guy I beat at GP Vancouver, after I lost my win-and-in for day 2 (our match was in round 6, when we were sitting at 3-2):
I hate the opponents that want to "help" you play by telling you how every move you make could have been better. Just let me play! Jeez, if I screw up it's on me. I'm not talking about the friendly advice after the match. I'm talking about the guy playing your hand for you mid game.
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"To realize that all your life—you know, all your love, all your hate, all your memory, all your pain—it was all the same thing. It was all the same dream. A dream that you had inside a locked room. A dream about being a person. And like a lot of dreams there's a monster at the end of it."
I hate the opponents that want to "help" you play by telling you how every move you make could have been better. Just let me play! Jeez, if I screw up it's on me. I'm not talking about the friendly advice after the match. I'm talking about the guy playing your hand for you mid game.
This reminds me of a play I saw on the right side of my match. A newer player was at 3-0 with BW Tokens playing against Griselbrand Reanimator. He had only a Ghost Quarter in play and was at 7 life while the Griselbrand Reanimator player was also nearly dead. On his opponent's turn, his opponent brought a Griselbrand back with a topdecked Goryo's Vengeance and the kid had Path to Exile in hand, but only Ghost Quarter in play. I did a double look because I was surprised by what happened. About 5 minutes after the match, I asked him if he had a Plains in his deck and if he did, he could have Ghost Quarter'd a land of his to get the untapped Plains and Path the Griselbrand to stay alive. I wasn't sure how to say it to him because I didn't want to belittle him. I just wanted to let him know his options for next time.
During a match (even between games), I will never say anything of consequence to either player. I may say something like "how's the Lakers doing?" but nothing about the game. I felt badly for that newer player because he could have drawn the last round for a 1st/2nd place split and I don't think he's done too well before.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
A newer player was at 3-0 with BW Tokens playing against Griselbrand Reanimator. He had only a Ghost Quarter in play and was at 7 life while the Griselbrand Reanimator player was also nearly dead. On his opponent's turn, his opponent brought a Griselbrand back with a topdecked Goryo's Vengeance and the kid had Path to Exile in hand, but only Ghost Quarter in play. I did a double look because I was surprised by what happened. About 5 minutes after the match, I asked him if he had a Plains in his deck and if he did, he could have Ghost Quarter'd a land of his to get the untapped Plains and Path the Griselbrand to stay alive.
Ghost Quarter can't fetch by targeting itself, so if all you have is a Ghost quarter you can't get that plains.
Still, it's good that you didn't say anything during the match. Not only is it bad form imho, it's also against the rules. And actually caring that you don't belittle a new player is very commendable, I wish there were more players like you.
Ghost Quarter can't fetch by targeting itself, so if all you have is a Ghost quarter you can't get that plains.
Still, it's good that you didn't say anything during the match. Not only is it bad form imho, it's also against the rules. And actually caring that you don't belittle a new player is very commendable, I wish there were more players like you.
Whenever I try to retell a board state even when I use several paragraphs, I always miss stating the important details. I should say that he only had an untapped Ghost Quarter and an Isolated Chapel, a Swamp, and a Fetid Heath all tapped. He had 3 tapped land and only Ghost Quarter untapped, presumably to cast something important.
I'm always wary of "telling people how to play" because everyone receives that with at least a little bit of uneasiness. It's the players that can get over it and learn from genuine mistakes that are willing to become better players. And I know this because I have had this problem in the past before and it still comes up from time to time.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Ghost Quarter can't fetch by targeting itself, so if all you have is a Ghost quarter you can't get that plains.
Still, it's good that you didn't say anything during the match. Not only is it bad form imho, it's also against the rules. And actually caring that you don't belittle a new player is very commendable, I wish there were more players like you.
Whenever I try to retell a board state even when I use several paragraphs, I always miss stating the important details. I should say that he only had an untapped Ghost Quarter and an Isolated Chapel, a Swamp, and a Fetid Heath all tapped. He had 3 tapped land and only Ghost Quarter untapped, presumably to cast something important.
I'm always wary of "telling people how to play" because everyone receives that with at least a little bit of uneasiness. It's the players that can get over it and learn from genuine mistakes that are willing to become better players. And I know this because I have had this problem in the past before and it still comes up from time to time.
Bleh I always forget you can do that. I run four and rather frequently have blood moon headaches.
It just seems like such a stupid thing to say when 1) yes, you would've won if you drew the exact cards you needed when you needed them - that's the same for anyone, and 2) yes, those would've been some awesome plays if you completely disregard the fact that I would be interacting with you at the same time.
It also just comes off as mildly rude. It's like saying, "you didn't win because you played well, you won because I just didn't get what I needed". Sure, some games boil down to extremely bad luck. But I've had people do this to me when the game was very intense and very close.
U/R Delver
Good point. Another counter-argument to "I would have won if I drew X!" is: my deck is supposed to win as fast as possible, to prevent you from drawing a lot of your good cards. Of course you didn't get the chance to draw all the good stuff.
As for me, I just reveal the top 1 or 2 and basically have the attitude "aw shucks, that would have been great!" but in a casual way, not making a legit argument to defend myself. Just like "Oh man, that topdeck Stormbreath would have been nice" but I always make my tone clear that I'm just messing around I mostly do that with players I know, as well as for cards in my hand.
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
The only thing I don't like that I feel is pointless is when players do the kibler shuffle, but for no other reason then they watched somebody on SCG stream do it.
Nothing really peculiar, I just like sportsmanship and a good attitude.
When it comes to lower-level events like FNM, where there is a focus on education, it can become quite difficult to walk this tightrope from the judge's perspective. For instance, "Judge, can I name Underworld Connections with Pithing Needle?" At Competitive REL, you just tell them yes and then hang around to explain that interaction in the next judge call that'll be happening in just a moment. At Regular REL, though, you have to get a bit creative because telling the player "yes" just results in bad feelings and the sense that the judge "lied" when they find it doesn't work as intended. So you have to find careful ways to word it, like, "You can, but does Underworld Connections have any activated abilities?"
The last thing you want is for players to feel like you've lied to them, and the second to last thing you want is for players to feel like you're giving out strategic advice while on the clock. And sometimes you just have to finagle it a bit to make it work.
That said, it's also fine to ask a judge before or after the event if there's anything you could be doing better. But if someone calls "judge!" and proceeds to ask me if it's a good idea to do something, they don't get to hear anything except, "Only you can
fight forest firesmake that decision."Plus "that's unfair and should be banned" crowd. Yeah, big scary Spreading Seas.
At the M15 prerelease, this kept coming up with Cone of Flame. I had to keep answering "Yes, you have to have three targets for the spell in order to cast it. Yes, they all have to be different." I so wanted to sneak in an "and in a pinch, you can ping yourself with the 1 to get the 2 and 3 on their guys," but I resisted.
Modern
URGTemur ScapeshiftGRU
EDH
WGKarametra EnchantressGW
UBGSidisi, Brood Tyrant ReanimatorGBU
UBRKess DoomsdayRBU
WBGGhave TokensGBW
WUBZur RebelsBUW
WUBErtai CursesBUW
WRFiresong and Sunspeaker Spell SlingerRW
Also, people who are constantly trying to hurry me up. I don't care that you're playing aggro and you want time to browse the store during rounds, I'm going to take my time and think about my moves.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/598381-kiki-chord-kiki-company
Bring to Niv
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/814060-bring-to-niv-the-golden-deck
Legacy - Lands
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands
Yeah, I'd get a judge to have a talk with him over that one. A deck's sleeves should be as uniform as possible, and while FNM is more lax than competitive events, there are still standards that have to be upheld.
This is worst when one player is using a strategy that leads to long games where the winning player is pretty obvious from the middle or early turns (Prison, land destruction, 'counter ALL the spells', etc), or a deck that generates massive haymaker plays that don't end the game (original Elspeth ultimate). If I'm losing to a deck like that, I'll scoop and offer a rematch, and I definitely won't 'play it out' to let the person with the Elspeth emblem cast their Emrakul.
These people are the worst to play against when I'm using one of those 'oppressive decks' too. They will sit there for ages while you try to draw your finisher in your counterspell overload deck, whining the whole time. The interesting turns in those games are usually turns 1-8, not turns 14 to 25.
#1 pet hate in competitive games: People that blame luck when they lose due to deck construction issues.
then when i ask him to play faster, he will argue if he is still thinking his move.
and because the magic community on my place is so small just about 100++ people,
the judge won't banned him.
I've played a game with someone like you, and I must say, I can see why he would do that. He's there to play magic, and even at a casual level you should obey the games rules, if you want to look at peoples decks during a game, build a deck that allows you to.
The worst trait I find in other players is probably luck. I mean just look the PT this last weekend, the amount of time Orange, or the control player who won topped deck a sphinxes rev or verdict was obscene.
Though that doesn't compare to the one player in my local meta who always, always has the top deck of the spell which he has as a 1 of in his deck to counter mine. The amount of times when he was playing his hexproof deck and topped deck his one gods willing the turn before I was able to set up lethal non targeting damage to his creature.
BINGO!! I don't understand people who spend time, money and effort to not ENJOY the game! It's an awesome game, it gives you so many chances to talk and be jovial with your opponent. But nooo, I see soo many people just grinding through the game with this GRIM look on their face... and this is at FNM's etc. Get over it dudes!!
Good post.
Thanks. Though to be fair, it's partly because of how well or not I know the opponent. Just yesterday, the particular person was having a better time against another opponent, so that's a factor. But still!
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
But in terms of most casual games, I'm not a fan of when someone takes an action way to far (ie disproportionate retribution). I get that you may be salty when I wrathed your board. You were going to eliminate one of the players from the game. There's no need for you to start shouting in my face and making jerk-off motions. No, you are not welcome back at this card table.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Actual conversation with a guy I beat at GP Vancouver, after I lost my win-and-in for day 2 (our match was in round 6, when we were sitting at 3-2):
Him: Did you lose?
Me: Yeah.
Him: *pumps fist*
This reminds me of a play I saw on the right side of my match. A newer player was at 3-0 with BW Tokens playing against Griselbrand Reanimator. He had only a Ghost Quarter in play and was at 7 life while the Griselbrand Reanimator player was also nearly dead. On his opponent's turn, his opponent brought a Griselbrand back with a topdecked Goryo's Vengeance and the kid had Path to Exile in hand, but only Ghost Quarter in play. I did a double look because I was surprised by what happened. About 5 minutes after the match, I asked him if he had a Plains in his deck and if he did, he could have Ghost Quarter'd a land of his to get the untapped Plains and Path the Griselbrand to stay alive. I wasn't sure how to say it to him because I didn't want to belittle him. I just wanted to let him know his options for next time.
During a match (even between games), I will never say anything of consequence to either player. I may say something like "how's the Lakers doing?" but nothing about the game. I felt badly for that newer player because he could have drawn the last round for a 1st/2nd place split and I don't think he's done too well before.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Ghost Quarter can't fetch by targeting itself, so if all you have is a Ghost quarter you can't get that plains.
Still, it's good that you didn't say anything during the match. Not only is it bad form imho, it's also against the rules. And actually caring that you don't belittle a new player is very commendable, I wish there were more players like you.
Trying to relax here.
Whenever I try to retell a board state even when I use several paragraphs, I always miss stating the important details. I should say that he only had an untapped Ghost Quarter and an Isolated Chapel, a Swamp, and a Fetid Heath all tapped. He had 3 tapped land and only Ghost Quarter untapped, presumably to cast something important.
I'm always wary of "telling people how to play" because everyone receives that with at least a little bit of uneasiness. It's the players that can get over it and learn from genuine mistakes that are willing to become better players. And I know this because I have had this problem in the past before and it still comes up from time to time.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Bleh I always forget you can do that. I run four and rather frequently have blood moon headaches.