Went to a prerelease at pastimes card shop (Niles, IL) this weekend. This wasn't my first time at the shop so I came in with a certain expectation of how things would go. For the most part things were ok, but there were a few things that rubbed me the wrong way this time around. I arrived early to sign up and went to get food. We got back & settled in. The tournament announcers decided to announce that they were out of the black seeded packs at this time (instead of at sign-up). They also then proceeded to gradually run out of each color until they got to a point where they announced all players who hadn't been lucky enough to get their color of choice would be receiving blue. Lots of groans and irritation. Then halfway through the tournament they announced a change in prize pack payout (this was mostly irrelevant to me). Then as the tourney was set to wrap up they made another announcement that due to WOTC policy they were only allowed to give each player 3 packs of the core set out of what they had won, and that the rest of the cards would be shipped to the players a week later on release. They apologized for the situation but assured us that it was Wizard's policy and that they would never run things in such a manner. This may not seem like the biggest of deals, but after going 4-0-1 (ID) I only was able to take home 3 packs, kind of a bummer. The big problem though is that this is when I could be making the most money off of those packs as a reseller. Instead I have to wait til release drops to get my product, likely meaning there will be a decrease in value across the board for M15. Is this in deed a WOTC policy they implemented, or just some random BS they spouted out to cover themselves? I did a brief amount of googling and was unable to find anything like this.
Mods: I wasn't sure if this fit into store discussion, since the base question is re: is there actually a wotc policy like this in place
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Some places, unfortunately, don't get the product they ordered, or their attendance is more than wizards expected and allocated for them, or stuff gets delayed in customs. It happens.
Whether that was what actually happened in your case, I have no idea.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
The LGS where I play had enough prizes to ensure even our not so great placing players even got more than three packs each. Not sure why our store had more product, or the change in WotC shipping etc.
I'm not sure how many packs we got but it was enough to cover all of the players we had to give 2 packs per player to the prize pool which is Wizards' policy. Maybe they wanted to give more packs than that? If they gave more than two per player but were only sent enough for that number it could account for needing to give less.
They likely don't have their M15 boxes yet, Wizards typically only sends 2 boxes as prize support. Notice that they said other players would get packs they would just have to wait for them to be in stock. If more than 72 packs get given out as prizes this will happen.
This is NOT standard policy and is most likely an excuse after they ran out of product. Several people left my store with 5 or more prize M15 packs, i myself got 4.
How many flights did they run? Was this one of the last ones? The LGS I attended had to limit colors selected in the last 2 flights due to them running out of certain colors.
As for prize support, I have never heard of that policy before in any LGS I have played. Sounds like passing the buck when they underestimated the number of players, or Wotc did not send them all their product. Either way its a bad policy.
They likely don't have their M15 boxes yet, Wizards typically only sends 2 boxes as prize support. Notice that they said other players would get packs they would just have to wait for them to be in stock. If more than 72 packs get given out as prizes this will happen.
This is not remotely accurate. My LGS is much, much smaller than Pastimes and had two boxes of product for prizes for each of the two prereleases that I attended (and they hosted a third as well with what I can only assume is similar payouts).
I've experienced situations like this for prereleases, I don't see what the big deal is, just wait an extra week. Are people honestly getting this greedy?
They likely don't have their M15 boxes yet, Wizards typically only sends 2 boxes as prize support. Notice that they said other players would get packs they would just have to wait for them to be in stock. If more than 72 packs get given out as prizes this will happen.
This is not remotely accurate. My LGS is much, much smaller than Pastimes and had two boxes of product for prizes for each of the two prereleases that I attended (and they hosted a third as well with what I can only assume is similar payouts).
Not remotely accurate then you respond saying they had two boxes for each event, which is precisely what I said.
OP: I've experienced this before at basically every shop I've gone to in the greater Chicagoland area since about the Gatecrash prerelease. It's a huge pain.
I've experienced situations like this for prereleases, I don't see what the big deal is, just wait an extra week. Are people honestly getting this greedy?
There's lots of reasons you might not want to come back for your packs: If you're going to a shop that isn't your normal LGS, if you'll be busy the following weekend, if you want to do a draft with your friends between the prerelease and the release. If I was out of town at a store I'm never visiting again and this happened I'd be pretty upset.
WOTC does not tell stores how to split up prize support. So your store lied to you because they simply ran out of product. There is no other way to look at it.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
My LGS simply ran out of product, I think they just shipped a lot less this time around, which the shop owner was complaining about a lot. She still owes my girlfriend and I a box and a half in prize support which we wont be able to get until friday at the earliest.
WOTC does not tell stores how to split up prize support. So your store lied to you because they simply ran out of product. There is no other way to look at it.
Looking back at the OP's quote, It looks like the store said that Wizards's policy caused them to only give out 3 packs of M15 per person.
If the policy that caused that to happen was wizard's policy of not sending enough product to give more than that, then what they said is entirely true.
OP: I've experienced this before at basically every shop I've gone to in the greater Chicagoland area since about the Gatecrash prerelease. It's a huge pain.
There are so many competing stores in that area that they all have to have much higher prize payouts than most of the other places I've played to attract players. Wizards only sends a limited number of boxes for prize support to stores, which isn't enough to cover the increased payout, so most stores have to limit what they give out at the prereleases and cover the excess with vouchers that can be redeemed after the stores get more product. My store, for example, got only one case of M15 to cover prizes for all five of the events we ran. Had we wanted to give out the entire prize pool in M15 packs without vouchers, we would have run out before the third event and would have had to give vouchers anyway.
That said, this is something that should have been very clear to your store before the tournament had even started, and it should have been planned for and communicated to the players going into the event rather than at the end.
WOTC does not tell stores how to split up prize support. So your store lied to you because they simply ran out of product. There is no other way to look at it.
Looking back at the OP's quote, It looks like the store said that Wizards's policy caused them to only give out 3 packs of M15 per person.
If the policy that caused that to happen was wizard's policy of not sending enough product to give more than that, then what they said is entirely true.
There is no payout policy that WOTC administered. The store simply didn't have enough product - and the store blaming WOTC for a fake payout policy is pretty low, imho.
This is a case of the store running low on product, not on some Wizards policy that doesn't exist.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
Wizards requires that you put at least 2 packs into the prize pool per player for each event.
Wizards also allocates prize packs such that, following that policy, stores are short. Essentially for each case of 20 prerelease packs (4 of each color), Wizards sends 1 booster box (36 packs). Assuming you sell through your stock, you'll always be short on prize packs.
In the case of being short on prize packs, Wizards suggests giving players a voucher for any owed packs to be picked up after the release shipment, but that isn't required.
It sounds to me like they were misreading the policy. There *is* a policy that limits them to 3 packs of the pre-release set per player in the tournament. But that policy is only dictating the overall prize pool. They could still give all of those packs to the top 8 if they wanted to.
For example: A prelease with 10 players is only technically allowed to have 30 packs of the pre-releasing set in the prize pool. they can distribute those 30 packs however they want, but the cannot give out more than 30. I've played in a few pre-releases where this has been an issue as well, and they always gave options: either get mailed your extra packs, come pick them up in the store on or after release date, or you can select any currently in print packs they have in stock instead.
Stores are required to give a minimum of 2 packs per player into the prize pool. Wizards tells your distributor how much product you can order (in sets of 20)and then gives the store an opportunity to purchase growth packs which is some more again in sets of 20. For the initial amount they allocate you , you receive one box of the set for free. So if you get 4 sets of 20 you will receive 4 boxes (still 4 packs short per player). You are allowed to buy an additional box per extra 20 kits you buy.
In other words your store either (A) did not buy enough product , (B) shipping error (which more stores would be upfront about), (C) kept the prizes to open for singles like you said , when they are at their most likely peak.
It sounds to me like they were misreading the policy. There *is* a policy that limits them to 3 packs of the pre-release set per player in the tournament. But that policy is only dictating the overall prize pool. They could still give all of those packs to the top 8 if they wanted to.
For example: A prelease with 10 players is only technically allowed to have 30 packs of the pre-releasing set in the prize pool. they can distribute those 30 packs however they want, but the cannot give out more than 30. I've played in a few pre-releases where this has been an issue as well, and they always gave options: either get mailed your extra packs, come pick them up in the store on or after release date, or you can select any currently in print packs they have in stock instead.
Where is this policy? My LGS had M15 prereleases of 44, 48 and 38 players, and since the owner guarantees a box for first plus $8 in the prize pool per player (which amounts to 2 2/7 packs), this meant that we had 137, 146 and 123 packs given out respectively (or at least potentially--the owner allows us to take store credit instead of packs, and since most top-placing players are regulars most of the prizes get taken in store credit), which is more than what you say is allowed.
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Rules Advisor (as of the last time they offered that certification).
Quote from "William Lyon Mackenzie King" »
There are few men in this Parliament for whom I have greater respect than the leader of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation. I admire him in my heart, because time and again he has had the courage to say what lays on his conscience, regardless of what the world might think of him. A man of that calibre is an ornament to any Parliament.
I don't play decks. I solve optimization problems.
Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination
Where is this policy? My LGS had M15 prereleases of 44, 48 and 38 players, and since the owner guarantees a box for first plus $8 in the prize pool per player (which amounts to 2 2/7 packs), this meant that we had 137, 146 and 123 packs given out respectively (or at least potentially--the owner allows us to take store credit instead of packs, and since most top-placing players are regulars most of the prizes get taken in store credit), which is more than what you say is allowed.
I don't konw, but I've seen it at multiple stores. Also, like I said there isn't a prohibition against the store adding other packs -- it's a prohibition against stores giving out more than 3 packs per player [u]of the pre-releasing set.[/i]
But it's possible the stores I went to were wrong or misleading theri customers to reduce their prise payout *shrug*.
I feel like an idiot. After the last round and the fact that they announced a winner i pretty much just packed up and left. They called out some names and said for others to get in a line and i figured since i only won 3 games out of 15 i wasnt going to get ***** so i just bailed. Will stick around next time.
Where is this policy? My LGS had M15 prereleases of 44, 48 and 38 players, and since the owner guarantees a box for first plus $8 in the prize pool per player (which amounts to 2 2/7 packs), this meant that we had 137, 146 and 123 packs given out respectively (or at least potentially--the owner allows us to take store credit instead of packs, and since most top-placing players are regulars most of the prizes get taken in store credit), which is more than what you say is allowed.
I don't konw, but I've seen it at multiple stores. Also, like I said there isn't a prohibition against the store adding other packs -- it's a prohibition against stores giving out more than 3 packs per player [u]of the pre-releasing set.[/i]
But it's possible the stores I went to were wrong or misleading theri customers to reduce their prise payout *shrug*.
Hunh, my store's owner will always let us take packs of the set featured at the prerelease unless he is actually going to run out if everyone does, in which case he will make us take packs of other sets if we want packs.
(I should note that he doesn't announce a pack breakdown in advance, only the total number of packs in the pool, but I almost always watch him when he determines the breakdown at the end once he knows the standings and he is fastidious about ensuring that everyone with the same record gets the same number of packs.)
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Rules Advisor (as of the last time they offered that certification).
Quote from "William Lyon Mackenzie King" »
There are few men in this Parliament for whom I have greater respect than the leader of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation. I admire him in my heart, because time and again he has had the courage to say what lays on his conscience, regardless of what the world might think of him. A man of that calibre is an ornament to any Parliament.
I don't play decks. I solve optimization problems.
Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination
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Mods: I wasn't sure if this fit into store discussion, since the base question is re: is there actually a wotc policy like this in place
Whether that was what actually happened in your case, I have no idea.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
As for prize support, I have never heard of that policy before in any LGS I have played. Sounds like passing the buck when they underestimated the number of players, or Wotc did not send them all their product. Either way its a bad policy.
This is not remotely accurate. My LGS is much, much smaller than Pastimes and had two boxes of product for prizes for each of the two prereleases that I attended (and they hosted a third as well with what I can only assume is similar payouts).
Not remotely accurate then you respond saying they had two boxes for each event, which is precisely what I said.
There's lots of reasons you might not want to come back for your packs: If you're going to a shop that isn't your normal LGS, if you'll be busy the following weekend, if you want to do a draft with your friends between the prerelease and the release. If I was out of town at a store I'm never visiting again and this happened I'd be pretty upset.
Looking back at the OP's quote, It looks like the store said that Wizards's policy caused them to only give out 3 packs of M15 per person.
If the policy that caused that to happen was wizard's policy of not sending enough product to give more than that, then what they said is entirely true.
There are so many competing stores in that area that they all have to have much higher prize payouts than most of the other places I've played to attract players. Wizards only sends a limited number of boxes for prize support to stores, which isn't enough to cover the increased payout, so most stores have to limit what they give out at the prereleases and cover the excess with vouchers that can be redeemed after the stores get more product. My store, for example, got only one case of M15 to cover prizes for all five of the events we ran. Had we wanted to give out the entire prize pool in M15 packs without vouchers, we would have run out before the third event and would have had to give vouchers anyway.
That said, this is something that should have been very clear to your store before the tournament had even started, and it should have been planned for and communicated to the players going into the event rather than at the end.
This is a case of the store running low on product, not on some Wizards policy that doesn't exist.
Wizards also allocates prize packs such that, following that policy, stores are short. Essentially for each case of 20 prerelease packs (4 of each color), Wizards sends 1 booster box (36 packs). Assuming you sell through your stock, you'll always be short on prize packs.
In the case of being short on prize packs, Wizards suggests giving players a voucher for any owed packs to be picked up after the release shipment, but that isn't required.
For example: A prelease with 10 players is only technically allowed to have 30 packs of the pre-releasing set in the prize pool. they can distribute those 30 packs however they want, but the cannot give out more than 30. I've played in a few pre-releases where this has been an issue as well, and they always gave options: either get mailed your extra packs, come pick them up in the store on or after release date, or you can select any currently in print packs they have in stock instead.
In other words your store either (A) did not buy enough product , (B) shipping error (which more stores would be upfront about), (C) kept the prizes to open for singles like you said , when they are at their most likely peak.
Where is this policy? My LGS had M15 prereleases of 44, 48 and 38 players, and since the owner guarantees a box for first plus $8 in the prize pool per player (which amounts to 2 2/7 packs), this meant that we had 137, 146 and 123 packs given out respectively (or at least potentially--the owner allows us to take store credit instead of packs, and since most top-placing players are regulars most of the prizes get taken in store credit), which is more than what you say is allowed.
I don't play decks. I solve optimization problems.
Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination
I don't konw, but I've seen it at multiple stores. Also, like I said there isn't a prohibition against the store adding other packs -- it's a prohibition against stores giving out more than 3 packs per player [u]of the pre-releasing set.[/i]
But it's possible the stores I went to were wrong or misleading theri customers to reduce their prise payout *shrug*.
Hunh, my store's owner will always let us take packs of the set featured at the prerelease unless he is actually going to run out if everyone does, in which case he will make us take packs of other sets if we want packs.
(I should note that he doesn't announce a pack breakdown in advance, only the total number of packs in the pool, but I almost always watch him when he determines the breakdown at the end once he knows the standings and he is fastidious about ensuring that everyone with the same record gets the same number of packs.)
I don't play decks. I solve optimization problems.
Currently solving:
Standard: Too poor for this format.
Modern: GW Auras, Living End, WB TurboFog, UB Mill, UR Storm
Legacy: R Burn, GU Infect, RG Lands, B Contamination