In this week's "Making Magic" column, MaRo went through his Card-by-Card stories about M15 (with a focus on the "outside designer" stories, which was great). When he got to talking about Heliod's Pilgrim, though... (unless I'm really wrong about how Bestow works)
"Magic 2015 takes place on six different planes (to tie into the planes used in Magic 2015—Duels of the Planeswalkers). As one of those planes is Theros, it allowed the designers of the set a chance to throw some bones to Standard by making a few Theros-block-relevant cards. Heliod's Pilgrim is a great example. For all intents and purposes, this card could have been in any of the Theros-blocksets. Heliod's Pilgrim, in particular, is cool because it plays so well with bestow creatures.
This is one of the advantages of a core set. Because the set isn't defined by a single world, it has the ability to add cards to themes before and after it. After it? Well, while I am not at liberty to tell you which cards were made to play nicely with Khans of Tarkir block, I can say that it is normal practice for us to make sure that a handful of cards in each core set play nicely not just with the current environment, but the future environment as well. Feel free to look and see if you can figure out which cards those are."
If I'm correct, Heliod's Pilgrim does absolutely nada with Bestow creatures.
berzerkdragon said: From today's article: "Heliod's Pilgrim, in particular, is cool because it plays so well with bestow creatures." Um, no it does not. Bestow creatures are not auras in the library. Thus, you can't fetch them with the Pilgrim.
Oops. For some of bestow’s time in design, they did.
You should listen to his Drive to Work Podcast then. He makes mistakes all the time. Even multiple takes of a single podcast, doesn't mean the final one is perfect. I can't really blame him though. For a guy who is as giddy as he is, he's recording podcasts in his car mostly from memory. What a trooper.
Plus, he's often talking about cards he last worked on more than a year ago, that, like he's mentioning with Bestow, probably went through multiple wordings where this kinda thing changes. He does make mistakes like this fairly frequently (Probably closer to once a month than once a week, more frequently on Blogatog and Drive to Work, where he's working entirely from memory), so listen to the general idea, rather than the specifics. And if he says something that conflicts with something you think you know about how things work, double check it before you attempt to pass it on.
Bestow was WAY more cooler then. I really wish we where given aura creatures properly since they would make the game better. If mirrodin whole artifact craziness had not happened i suspect we might have seen something like that.
Also WOTC if you are reading this please reprint Idyllic Tutor in the next commander set. I was tricked out of mine back in the day and i still reel from my lack of foresight now that i play Pre-release and commander exclusively.
We probably would have got "aura creatures" if the rules would not have this quirks about auras.
If they would kinda work like equipment and stay in play anyway, it would be way easier to work with.
As it is, bestow is allready a pretty complicated mechanic from its rules, while it still plays out fairly intuitive if you got the hang (still, its details are annoying).
Kinda worked with Living Weapons aswell, they are kinda similiar in that regard.
"303.4d An Aura can’t enchant itself. If this occurs somehow, the Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard. An Aura that’s also a creature can’t enchant anything. If this occurs somehow, the Aura becomes unattached, then is put into its owner’s graveyard."
Under the influence of type changing cards maybe? An enchant artifact with mycosynth lattice in play? Add March of the Machines and without that rule, Rancor could rancor itself.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My decks
Standard - RIP Cat
Modern - Death & Taxes
Commander - Mazirek, Trostani, Angry Omnath
Under the influence of type changing cards maybe? An enchant artifact with mycosynth lattice in play? Add March of the Machines and without that rule, Rancor could rancor itself.
Could it though? It couldn't from hand, because it would still need a target in play. Maybe with aura finesse or aura graft?
Edit - Not with aura graft as it specifies another permanent, so maybe you could do it with finesse?
You should listen to his Drive to Work Podcast then. He makes mistakes all the time. Even multiple takes of a single podcast, doesn't mean the final one is perfect. I can't really blame him though. For a guy who is as giddy as he is, he's recording podcasts in his car mostly from memory. What a trooper.
The guy's memory is incredible. If you listen to his "199x" series, he rattles off magic history and names like nothing. i dont know if he primes himself for the podcasts beforehand but the way he goes off on magic history is nothing short of amazing.
Aura Graft referencing "another permanent" doesn't, as I interpret it, prevent it from attaching the Aura to the Aura. It specifies a permanent that is not the permanent the Aura is presently attached to, yes?
Not the only flub. There's also about wheels not granting card advantage. If you've got 5 or 6 cards and my hand's empty, then I draw Reforge the Soul, making sure you can't do what you blue players always do, suddenly I have card advantage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Aura Graft referencing "another permanent" doesn't, as I interpret it, prevent it from attaching the Aura to the Aura. It specifies a permanent that is not the permanent the Aura is presently attached to, yes?
It says "Another permanent it can enchant." What an aura can enchant is dictated by it's own text box, i.e. Curse of Bloodletting can only enchant a player, and most auras can only enchant creatures. As far as i know there are no auras that say they can enchant multiple types of targets, i.e. "Enchant creature or player"
It says "Another permanent it can enchant." What an aura can enchant is dictated by it's own text box, i.e. Curse of Bloodletting can only enchant a player, and most auras can only enchant creatures. As far as i know there are no auras that say they can enchant multiple types of targets, i.e. "Enchant creature or player"
Aura Graft referencing "another permanent" doesn't, as I interpret it, prevent it from attaching the Aura to the Aura. It specifies a permanent that is not the permanent the Aura is presently attached to, yes?
It says "Another permanent it can enchant." What an aura can enchant is dictated by it's own text box, i.e. Curse of Bloodletting can only enchant a player, and most auras can only enchant creatures. As far as i know there are no auras that say they can enchant multiple types of targets, i.e. "Enchant creature or player"
Confiscate can enchant itself in the absence of that rule (with a little help).
As it is, with aura moving effects, you can get a Confiscate enchanting another Confiscate that enchants the original Confiscate. It's like Inception, except with theft involved.
Faith's Fetters enchants a permanent regardless of type, too. You can even get creative and have multiple Fetters enchanting each other. It's been called the Faith's Fetters Survival Hug.
He makes mistakes reasonably often. I imagine it's easier to do when you have 10 different versions of a card in your head.
And if you want flavor, ask Doug! If you want rules...pack your bags, because no one's seen Matt Tabak in ages.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Faith's Fetters enchants a permanent regardless of type, too. You can even get creative and have multiple Fetters enchanting each other. It's been called the Faith's Fetters Survival Hug.
Yo dawg, I heard you like fetters, so Imma put Fetters on your Fetters so you can... #stupidmeme
This is one of the advantages of a core set. Because the set isn't defined by a single world, it has the ability to add cards to themes before and after it. After it? Well, while I am not at liberty to tell you which cards were made to play nicely with Khans of Tarkir block, I can say that it is normal practice for us to make sure that a handful of cards in each core set play nicely not just with the current environment, but the future environment as well. Feel free to look and see if you can figure out which cards those are."
If I'm correct, Heliod's Pilgrim does absolutely nada with Bestow creatures.
My pet, really super tentantive, in development, 40-man format- Star Team!
Modern-
RWG"Frigga" (Allies)GWR
Standard-
"Kendra" (RabbleRed)
EDH-
WUR Zedruu ControlRUW
RUG Riku GUR
BGW Ghave WBG
RWB Kaalia BWR
CUBE-
Khans of Tarkir Procedural Cube
My pet, really super tentantive, in development, 40-man format- Star Team!
Modern-
RWG"Frigga" (Allies)GWR
Standard-
"Kendra" (RabbleRed)
EDH-
WUR Zedruu ControlRUW
RUG Riku GUR
BGW Ghave WBG
RWB Kaalia BWR
CUBE-
Khans of Tarkir Procedural Cube
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
Also WOTC if you are reading this please reprint Idyllic Tutor in the next commander set. I was tricked out of mine back in the day and i still reel from my lack of foresight now that i play Pre-release and commander exclusively.
If they would kinda work like equipment and stay in play anyway, it would be way easier to work with.
As it is, bestow is allready a pretty complicated mechanic from its rules, while it still plays out fairly intuitive if you got the hang (still, its details are annoying).
Kinda worked with Living Weapons aswell, they are kinda similiar in that regard.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Under the influence of type changing cards maybe? An enchant artifact with mycosynth lattice in play? Add March of the Machines and without that rule, Rancor could rancor itself.
Standard - RIP Cat
Modern - Death & Taxes
Commander - Mazirek, Trostani, Angry Omnath
Could it though? It couldn't from hand, because it would still need a target in play. Maybe with aura finesse or aura graft?
Edit - Not with aura graft as it specifies another permanent, so maybe you could do it with finesse?
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
The guy's memory is incredible. If you listen to his "199x" series, he rattles off magic history and names like nothing. i dont know if he primes himself for the podcasts beforehand but the way he goes off on magic history is nothing short of amazing.
My pet, really super tentantive, in development, 40-man format- Star Team!
Modern-
RWG"Frigga" (Allies)GWR
Standard-
"Kendra" (RabbleRed)
EDH-
WUR Zedruu ControlRUW
RUG Riku GUR
BGW Ghave WBG
RWB Kaalia BWR
CUBE-
Khans of Tarkir Procedural Cube
On phasing:
It says "Another permanent it can enchant." What an aura can enchant is dictated by it's own text box, i.e. Curse of Bloodletting can only enchant a player, and most auras can only enchant creatures. As far as i know there are no auras that say they can enchant multiple types of targets, i.e. "Enchant creature or player"
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
Teferi's Curse reads 'Enchant artifact or creature'
Confiscate can enchant itself in the absence of that rule (with a little help).
As it is, with aura moving effects, you can get a Confiscate enchanting another Confiscate that enchants the original Confiscate. It's like Inception, except with theft involved.
And if you want flavor, ask Doug! If you want rules...pack your bags, because no one's seen Matt Tabak in ages.
On phasing:
Yo dawg, I heard you like fetters, so Imma put Fetters on your Fetters so you can... #stupidmeme
Without that rule, you'd cast Confiscate on permanent X, then use any of the various Aura moving effects to change it to enchant itself.