I agree 100% with what he said. I especially agree with coverage not knowing how a deck works, especially in a small format like standard. If it was modern or even legacy I would be forgiving. But it is your job as a coverage personale to know what every deck in the format is. If you can't devote 3 hours of your day learning the inns and outs of a small format like Standard, you shouldn't be doing coverage. I agree that the European side of coverage is a lot better. I also agree with starting with round 1. There are several well known players who don't have any byes at tournaments.
The most important thing I think is important is Tournament start times. If you're going to say that Coverage starts at Noon, you better be on the air at noon, or at the most 20 minutes late. 3-4 hours is inexcusable!
One other thing I would like to say is, It's 2014 If you can't get a 1080P video camera for doing coverage, something is wrong. I admit I didn't watch any GP DC coverage because I don't like watching limited, so I don't know if the video quality improved but, during GP chicago I thought I was watching coverage in fogged up mirror. That is simply inexcusable.
I think that Starcity games open coverage is the pedigree of Magic coverage.
What are your thoughts on the state of GP coverage.
The start time doesn't matter as much to me as long as the content quality is good whenever it does go live. The biggest problem is the announce team. I don't want to call out specific people and some are better than others, but as a whole, they are unacceptable. There should be a pro in the booth at all times, two if possible.
Commentators are the most important people imho. Look at other sporting events; they can make or break a game.
The second is communication - not everyone uses social media outlets.
I've made many posts on this issue. Kibler is certainly right about just doing the obvious things like making sure people know when the show is on.
My big thing that I want to see them improve on is to cutting the matches into separate bits and posting them so that someone that doesn't want to wake up at 10 in the morning to catch the very beginning of the tournament can do so.
And I think that if you do this, you could also have at least 3 sets of coverage teams covering 3 matches each round. Sure, you aren't going to be able to watch each of them live, but that would be the point of posting the replays of each match individually instead of just 1 12 hour long post of the whole tournament. This is something SCG could charge extra for and a lot of people would love to be able to go back and cherry pick matches they want to watch, or watch them all in order, or watch all matches of a specific archetype to try and learn more about how to play it.
Go to Blizzards website and they do exactly what I'm talking about with Starcraft 2 pro-leagues. Maybe it's a money issue and it isn't worth the risk for SCG to do it right now... but I hope they are aware of what other e-sports leagues are doing and that this is a good way to improve their coverage.
I've made many posts on this issue. Kibler is certainly right about just doing the obvious things like making sure people know when the show is on.
My big thing that I want to see them improve on is to cutting the matches into separate bits and posting them so that someone that doesn't want to wake up at 10 in the morning to catch the very beginning of the tournament can do so.
And I think that if you do this, you could also have at least 3 sets of coverage teams covering 3 matches each round. Sure, you aren't going to be able to watch each of them live, but that would be the point of posting the replays of each match individually instead of just 1 12 hour long post of the whole tournament. This is something SCG could charge extra for and a lot of people would love to be able to go back and cherry pick matches they want to watch, or watch them all in order, or watch all matches of a specific archetype to try and learn more about how to play it.
Go to Blizzards website and they do exactly what I'm talking about with Starcraft 2 pro-leagues. Maybe it's a money issue and it isn't worth the risk for SCG to do it right now... but I hope they are aware of what other e-sports leagues are doing and that this is a good way to improve their coverage.
They do this with Twitch past events section on their profile. While it is unedited, it's better than charging for content that was free in the first place.
I'm sorry, I'm a blockhead I misread your comment.
Everything Mr. Kibler says is pretty obvious, but should continue to be said until Wizards actually fixes the problems. Aside from Worlds and Pro Tours, I will not watch their coverage anymore. It's just bad. SCG puts on solid shows every week. There's no reason why Wizards shouldn't be able to do the same.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
And I think that if you do this, you could also have at least 3 sets of coverage teams covering 3 matches each round. Sure, you aren't going to be able to watch each of them live, but that would be the point of posting the replays of each match individually instead of just 1 12 hour long post of the whole tournament. This is something SCG could charge extra for and a lot of people would love to be able to go back and cherry pick matches they want to watch, or watch them all in order, or watch all matches of a specific archetype to try and learn more about how to play it.
ChannelFireball hosted a GP earlier this year where they did something like this, and it was really neat. Essentially what they did was film two matches at the same time - one main feature and one second feature. When the main feature was finished, they started the playback on the second. The commentary wasn't done in real time, but since the commentators (and we) hadn't been informed of how the match went, that was fine. This removed almost all dead air between the rounds.
ChannelFireball hosted a GP earlier this year where they did something like this, and it was really neat. Essentially what they did was film two matches at the same time - one main feature and one second feature. When the main feature was finished, they started the playback on the second. The commentary wasn't done in real time, but since the commentators (and we) hadn't been informed of how the match went, that was fine. This removed almost all dead air between the rounds.
See, so it's certainly possible.
Another major thing that really irks me when it comes to these broadcasts is that when it gets down to the top 8, they need to show every match. The last time I watch an SCG, they would only have one match at a time, and if the match ended early they would go to another match and watch the end of it. This is the top 8! Why would I not want to see every game in the top 8?
No reason why they couldn't either stagger the matches so they can see them all live, or do like you were talking about where they commentate the match that was taped before.
I watch the SCG open coverage about every weekend and have gotten used to the level of quality. Watching GP DC was painful. Listening to Chapin and Sullivan all the time is great, more coverage needs to be of this level.
I also agree that I want to see more full matches. Not just the last 3 turns after the feature match ended. Uploading each match with it's own commentary is something i would consider paying for.
The channel fireball thing was cool, are they going to be doing more of that or was that a 1 time thing?
The start time doesn't matter as much to me as long as the content quality is good whenever it does go live. The biggest problem is the announce team. I don't want to call out specific people and some are better than others, but as a whole, they are unacceptable. There should be a pro in the booth at all times, two if possible.
This is true. There is a problem in that many Pros would rather play in the Grand Prix than be a commentator, but honestly if they tried, they would be able to find someone.
Personally, I like watching the Grand Prix coverage. While it's just okay, I find it more relevant to watch what's going on in the Grand Prix compared with an SCG Open. Making the Top 8 of a 1000 person tournament is much tougher than a 250 person tournament. I watch the SCG coverage almost every weekend, so maybe I'm just getting a bit tired of it. I just honestly wish both of them would show as many matches as they could compared with a lot of the time being spent with the commentators. I want to see the lines that Joe Lossett takes with Miracles or Ruben Bresler takes with Imperial Painter, etc. I find this more valuable to myself than anything that the commentators can say (no harm meant as Pat Sullivan and Ced Phillips is the best commentator combination ).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
No reason why they couldn't either stagger the matches so they can see them all live, or do like you were talking about where they commentate the match that was taped before.
Logistically, that's very difficult to accomodate. The venues where these events are held are rented by the day. Many of the events run until 11:00 p.m. or later, particularly the Legacy Top 8 on Sundays. Staggering the events would draw out the length of the events several hours, when they're already ending at or close to midnight. They've also got to tear down their equipment, pack everything up, and get out of the building before their leased/rented time expires. I can tell you from a legal standpoint, it can be the difference in several hundred/thousand dollars (depending how much they pay to use the various convention sites) if they were to run over time.
So while I would love to see the entire Top 8, even if it were not broadcast in live time, I can understand why they don't.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
There are a lot of competing interests at play here, and the spectator experience does not trump all of the others. WotC does broadcast every game of the Top 8 for pro tours, but that's because they have all day Sunday to do so - Grand Prix Top 8's generally begin in the middle of the afternoon because the swiss rounds take up most of Saturday and Sunday, and trying to broadcast all of them in a reasonable timeframe just isn't realistic.
No reason why they couldn't either stagger the matches so they can see them all live, or do like you were talking about where they commentate the match that was taped before.
Logistically, that's very difficult to accomodate. The venues where these events are held are rented by the day. Many of the events run until 11:00 p.m. or later, particularly the Legacy Top 8 on Sundays. Staggering the events would draw out the length of the events several hours, when they're already ending at or close to midnight. They've also got to tear down their equipment, pack everything up, and get out of the building before their leased/rented time expires. I can tell you from a legal standpoint, it can be the difference in several hundred/thousand dollars (depending how much they pay to use the various convention sites) if they were to run over time.
So while I would love to see the entire Top 8, even if it were not broadcast in live time, I can understand why they don't.
I see your point. There are alternate ways it could be done. The easiest solution would be to just tape everything and have the guys give commentary on each tape.
Staggering the matches is still possible, but you'd have to eat the cost for renting the space if it comes to that. And because it's a top 8, you don't necessarily need the same venue you were using for the SCG.
Really, the big problem isn't the venue, it's that you have to hold a legacy tournament and a standard tournament over a weekend. Saturday / Sunday are the only full days you could run a tournament. So it's impossible to have one of the tournaments go effectively two days. If you had 3 days, then it would be simple enough to have the Swiss part of the tournament on the first two days, and then on the 3rd day have both top 8s back to back.
What are your thoughts on it?
I agree 100% with what he said. I especially agree with coverage not knowing how a deck works, especially in a small format like standard. If it was modern or even legacy I would be forgiving. But it is your job as a coverage personale to know what every deck in the format is. If you can't devote 3 hours of your day learning the inns and outs of a small format like Standard, you shouldn't be doing coverage. I agree that the European side of coverage is a lot better. I also agree with starting with round 1. There are several well known players who don't have any byes at tournaments.
The most important thing I think is important is Tournament start times. If you're going to say that Coverage starts at Noon, you better be on the air at noon, or at the most 20 minutes late. 3-4 hours is inexcusable!
One other thing I would like to say is, It's 2014 If you can't get a 1080P video camera for doing coverage, something is wrong. I admit I didn't watch any GP DC coverage because I don't like watching limited, so I don't know if the video quality improved but, during GP chicago I thought I was watching coverage in fogged up mirror. That is simply inexcusable.
I think that Starcity games open coverage is the pedigree of Magic coverage.
What are your thoughts on the state of GP coverage.
Dega midrange 1-0
The second is communication - not everyone uses social media outlets.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
My big thing that I want to see them improve on is to cutting the matches into separate bits and posting them so that someone that doesn't want to wake up at 10 in the morning to catch the very beginning of the tournament can do so.
And I think that if you do this, you could also have at least 3 sets of coverage teams covering 3 matches each round. Sure, you aren't going to be able to watch each of them live, but that would be the point of posting the replays of each match individually instead of just 1 12 hour long post of the whole tournament. This is something SCG could charge extra for and a lot of people would love to be able to go back and cherry pick matches they want to watch, or watch them all in order, or watch all matches of a specific archetype to try and learn more about how to play it.
Go to Blizzards website and they do exactly what I'm talking about with Starcraft 2 pro-leagues. Maybe it's a money issue and it isn't worth the risk for SCG to do it right now... but I hope they are aware of what other e-sports leagues are doing and that this is a good way to improve their coverage.
They do this with Twitch past events section on their profile. While it is unedited, it's better than charging for content that was free in the first place.
I'm sorry, I'm a blockhead I misread your comment.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
ChannelFireball hosted a GP earlier this year where they did something like this, and it was really neat. Essentially what they did was film two matches at the same time - one main feature and one second feature. When the main feature was finished, they started the playback on the second. The commentary wasn't done in real time, but since the commentators (and we) hadn't been informed of how the match went, that was fine. This removed almost all dead air between the rounds.
See, so it's certainly possible.
Another major thing that really irks me when it comes to these broadcasts is that when it gets down to the top 8, they need to show every match. The last time I watch an SCG, they would only have one match at a time, and if the match ended early they would go to another match and watch the end of it. This is the top 8! Why would I not want to see every game in the top 8?
No reason why they couldn't either stagger the matches so they can see them all live, or do like you were talking about where they commentate the match that was taped before.
I also agree that I want to see more full matches. Not just the last 3 turns after the feature match ended. Uploading each match with it's own commentary is something i would consider paying for.
The channel fireball thing was cool, are they going to be doing more of that or was that a 1 time thing?
This is true. There is a problem in that many Pros would rather play in the Grand Prix than be a commentator, but honestly if they tried, they would be able to find someone.
Personally, I like watching the Grand Prix coverage. While it's just okay, I find it more relevant to watch what's going on in the Grand Prix compared with an SCG Open. Making the Top 8 of a 1000 person tournament is much tougher than a 250 person tournament. I watch the SCG coverage almost every weekend, so maybe I'm just getting a bit tired of it. I just honestly wish both of them would show as many matches as they could compared with a lot of the time being spent with the commentators. I want to see the lines that Joe Lossett takes with Miracles or Ruben Bresler takes with Imperial Painter, etc. I find this more valuable to myself than anything that the commentators can say (no harm meant as Pat Sullivan and Ced Phillips is the best commentator combination ).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Logistically, that's very difficult to accomodate. The venues where these events are held are rented by the day. Many of the events run until 11:00 p.m. or later, particularly the Legacy Top 8 on Sundays. Staggering the events would draw out the length of the events several hours, when they're already ending at or close to midnight. They've also got to tear down their equipment, pack everything up, and get out of the building before their leased/rented time expires. I can tell you from a legal standpoint, it can be the difference in several hundred/thousand dollars (depending how much they pay to use the various convention sites) if they were to run over time.
So while I would love to see the entire Top 8, even if it were not broadcast in live time, I can understand why they don't.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
What you did there, I see it.
I see your point. There are alternate ways it could be done. The easiest solution would be to just tape everything and have the guys give commentary on each tape.
Staggering the matches is still possible, but you'd have to eat the cost for renting the space if it comes to that. And because it's a top 8, you don't necessarily need the same venue you were using for the SCG.
Really, the big problem isn't the venue, it's that you have to hold a legacy tournament and a standard tournament over a weekend. Saturday / Sunday are the only full days you could run a tournament. So it's impossible to have one of the tournaments go effectively two days. If you had 3 days, then it would be simple enough to have the Swiss part of the tournament on the first two days, and then on the 3rd day have both top 8s back to back.