It's their store. They can do what they would like to do. And, honestly, allowing the player to buy a playset of all the Gods for $3.50 seems more than fair to me.
It's their store. They can do what they would like to do. And, honestly, allowing the player to buy a playset of all the Gods for $3.50 seems more than fair to me.
So they should just ignore Wizards own tournament rules?
At regular REL? Is 100% correct enforcement all the time even necessary? I have the impression -- I could be wrong -- that tournament organizers can do pretty much what they like with the logistics of their own tournament. It's not like they are changing the fundamental rules of how you draft or play.
No matter what, if you get handed the boosters, you can walk away at any time with "your" cards.
If you agreed to some sort of "rare pick" at the end (so you dont keep the rare cards you pick during draft) , then you can STILL walk away if you open the booster and just drop it (nobody can stop you, you didnt steal anything, its your cards, you can do with them whatever you want).
If someone opens a goyf in a Time Spiral draft, they just keep it and drop the event, thats it, if anyone blames them, have a nice day.
I then asked the judge if they could just drop, to which he responded "No, the packs are the property of the store until the draft is done."
Good luck convincing the police of that... Which is why Wizards has the policy they have. They dont want to have to deal with legal battles of people fighting event holders over a $4 pack of cards. Wotc can't do a buy out rule though like a small store might because how do you make that rule? "if a pack is worth over $100 on the secondary market a player may buy a new pack"?
No matter what, if you get handed the boosters, you can walk away at any time with "your" cards.
If you agreed to some sort of "rare pick" at the end (so you dont keep the rare cards you pick during draft) , then you can STILL walk away if you open the booster and just drop it (nobody can stop you, you didnt steal anything, its your cards, you can do with them whatever you want).
If someone opens a goyf in a Time Spiral draft, they just keep it and drop the event, thats it, if anyone blames them, have a nice day.
That is my understand of the rule regarding dropping. If the store is in clear violation of this rule, how should it be handled?
No matter what, if you get handed the boosters, you can walk away at any time with "your" cards.
If you agreed to some sort of "rare pick" at the end (so you dont keep the rare cards you pick during draft) , then you can STILL walk away if you open the booster and just drop it (nobody can stop you, you didnt steal anything, its your cards, you can do with them whatever you want).
If someone opens a goyf in a Time Spiral draft, they just keep it and drop the event, thats it, if anyone blames them, have a nice day.
That is my understand of the rule regarding dropping. If the store is in clear violation of this rule, how should it be handled?
I would inform them of Wizards's policy on this, and if they disagree with it after discussion, you can report them to Wizards for violating their rules.
No matter what, if you get handed the boosters, you can walk away at any time with "your" cards.
If you agreed to some sort of "rare pick" at the end (so you dont keep the rare cards you pick during draft) , then you can STILL walk away if you open the booster and just drop it (nobody can stop you, you didnt steal anything, its your cards, you can do with them whatever you want).
If someone opens a goyf in a Time Spiral draft, they just keep it and drop the event, thats it, if anyone blames them, have a nice day.
That is my understand of the rule regarding dropping. If the store is in clear violation of this rule, how should it be handled?
Chances are it will never matter... IF however you ever do open a God pack in a draft there I would go ahead and drop and walk out... they can't stop you.
Just because the official policy makes that allowance, doesn't mean it's right. If you're a jerk and don't either fully draft the god pack or get a fresh unopened pack and instead just drop, don't be surprised if you're banned from drafting there ever again.
I'm an L1 and a house judge. Our policy is "buy a new pack and keep your gods." Drafting a god pack warps the draft too much, especially since we have multiple pods and play cross-pod. If our events weren't new-player friendly regular REL, then we would draft out the god pack.
No matter what, if you get handed the boosters, you can walk away at any time with "your" cards.
If you agreed to some sort of "rare pick" at the end (so you dont keep the rare cards you pick during draft) , then you can STILL walk away if you open the booster and just drop it (nobody can stop you, you didnt steal anything, its your cards, you can do with them whatever you want).
If someone opens a goyf in a Time Spiral draft, they just keep it and drop the event, thats it, if anyone blames them, have a nice day.
That is my understand of the rule regarding dropping. If the store is in clear violation of this rule, how should it be handled?
I would inform them of Wizards's policy on this, and if they disagree with it after discussion, you can report them to Wizards for violating their rules.
Something tells me that wizards isn't going to do anything. Everything I've seen from wizards on this subject seems oddly non-committal on this subject. I don't think that they want to get involved in the terms of the transaction like that.
Maybe I just don't have enough of a money making mentality to be a store owner, but to me, the God pack creates a nice experience for a player that visits your store and I am not sure why it is such a hassle to just give them a pack at no charge and continue with your draft. You preserve their moment, and come out looking like a great owner for a price of next to nothing.
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Maybe I just don't have enough of a money making mentality to be a store owner, but to me, the God pack creates a nice experience for a player that visits your store and I am not sure why it is such a hassle to just give them a pack at no charge and continue with your draft. You preserve their moment, and come out looking like a great owner for a price of next to nothing.
It's shortsighted of you to only consider the experience of the person who opened the "god pack"
The reason why an owner might want to force you to play out the draft is so that you don't have a piss-poor experience for the other 7 drafters who don't get to complete a draft.
There's no money incentive for the owner either way.
Maybe I just don't have enough of a money making mentality to be a store owner, but to me, the God pack creates a nice experience for a player that visits your store and I am not sure why it is such a hassle to just give them a pack at no charge and continue with your draft. You preserve their moment, and come out looking like a great owner for a price of next to nothing.
It's shortsighted of you to only consider the experience of the person who opened the "god pack"
The reason why an owner might want to force you to play out the draft is so that you don't have a piss-poor experience for the other 7 drafters who don't get to complete a draft.
There's no money incentive for the owner either way.
I actually didn't suggest the God pack player drop in my post, thus the draft would continue no harm, no foul. What I was suggesting is that the player who opens the God pack get to keep it, get a replacement pack, and continue to play.
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No matter what, if you get handed the boosters, you can walk away at any time with "your" cards.
If you agreed to some sort of "rare pick" at the end (so you dont keep the rare cards you pick during draft) , then you can STILL walk away if you open the booster and just drop it (nobody can stop you, you didnt steal anything, its your cards, you can do with them whatever you want).
If someone opens a goyf in a Time Spiral draft, they just keep it and drop the event, thats it, if anyone blames them, have a nice day.
That is my understand of the rule regarding dropping. If the store is in clear violation of this rule, how should it be handled?
I would inform them of Wizards's policy on this, and if they disagree with it after discussion, you can report them to Wizards for violating their rules.
Something tells me that wizards isn't going to do anything. Everything I've seen from wizards on this subject seems oddly non-committal on this subject. I don't think that they want to get involved in the terms of the transaction like that.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about not replacing the god pack. I'm talking about a store disallowing you from dropping and keeping your packs. You don't think that Wizards would reprimand a store that doesn't follow their policies? This is clearly stated in the MTR.
Quote from Magic Tournament Rules »
(Second paragraph of section 2.10 - Dropping from a Tournament)
Players who drop during limited events own the cards that they correctly have in their possession at that time. This includes any unopened or partially drafted boosters.
Your only recourse is exactly as stated. Show the owner of the store the rule about how to handle dropping from an event in Limited and then if they refuse to follow the rules tell Wizards you can't do more than that.
My store has announced our policy of the player having to buy a new pack to replace. Players have offered to cover any player who has the above problem of not being able to pay for a new pack and wants to keep the God pack.
If a store is going to be mean like that even after explaining the rules. Then leave with your god pack and report them to wizards. Both the stores where I live will cover the cost for a new pack if a god pack is opened during a draft. It's rare so its not like they are likely to hand out many if any free packs. So the cost is basically zero.
Maybe I just don't have enough of a money making mentality to be a store owner, but to me, the God pack creates a nice experience for a player that visits your store and I am not sure why it is such a hassle to just give them a pack at no charge and continue with your draft. You preserve their moment, and come out looking like a great owner for a price of next to nothing.
It's shortsighted of you to only consider the experience of the person who opened the "god pack"
The reason why an owner might want to force you to play out the draft is so that you don't have a piss-poor experience for the other 7 drafters who don't get to complete a draft.
There's no money incentive for the owner either way.
Despite it not being the topic of the post you're responding to, your comment shows a lack of understanding of how dropping from a draft works.
Even should a player drop from a draft, the remaining players still continue the draft without them.
If there was exactly 8 players, the event would continue to be sanctioned, because it started with at least 8 players.
One player simply gets a bye each round.
I talked to the store owner yesterday after I got off work. He said that he wasn't aware of the rule. He even mentioned Modern Masters drafts as the base for why they feel that a player can't drop and take the cards.
I told him the official rules were updated last year to reflect this type of situation. He said he'd talk to his judge and they would review it. He is offering the player a chance to buy a new pack and draft with that so they can keep the god pack. But he was kind of leaning towards banning people who would drop from a draft and take the cards. I told him just make sure you let them take the cards so you aren't in violation of the rules.
I talked to the store owner yesterday after I got off work. He said that he wasn't aware of the rule. He even mentioned Modern Masters drafts as the base for why they feel that a player can't drop and take the cards.
I told him the official rules were updated last year to reflect this type of situation. He said he'd talk to his judge and they would review it. He is offering the player a chance to buy a new pack and draft with that so they can keep the god pack. But he was kind of leaning towards banning people who would drop from a draft and take the cards. I told him just make sure you let them take the cards so you aren't in violation of the rules.
I mean it's his store, but if he's going to ban people who follow something explicitly stated in the rules (and Modern Masters is the one draft scenario I feel should be most acceptable for you to drop from), I wouldn't expect that to help his business. It may not come up infrequently, but punishing players for opening great packs in an MMA-type scenario wouldn't get me excited to go to a store.
The judge at the store said "The player that opens a god pack has the option of purchasing a new pack, otherwise they have to draft it."
I then asked the judge if they could just drop, to which he responded "No, the packs are the property of the store until the draft is done."
This is in violation of Wizards own rules. How would you handle the situation?
So they should just ignore Wizards own tournament rules?
If you agreed to some sort of "rare pick" at the end (so you dont keep the rare cards you pick during draft) , then you can STILL walk away if you open the booster and just drop it (nobody can stop you, you didnt steal anything, its your cards, you can do with them whatever you want).
If someone opens a goyf in a Time Spiral draft, they just keep it and drop the event, thats it, if anyone blames them, have a nice day.
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Good luck convincing the police of that... Which is why Wizards has the policy they have. They dont want to have to deal with legal battles of people fighting event holders over a $4 pack of cards. Wotc can't do a buy out rule though like a small store might because how do you make that rule? "if a pack is worth over $100 on the secondary market a player may buy a new pack"?
That is my understand of the rule regarding dropping. If the store is in clear violation of this rule, how should it be handled?
I would inform them of Wizards's policy on this, and if they disagree with it after discussion, you can report them to Wizards for violating their rules.
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Chances are it will never matter... IF however you ever do open a God pack in a draft there I would go ahead and drop and walk out... they can't stop you.
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Something tells me that wizards isn't going to do anything. Everything I've seen from wizards on this subject seems oddly non-committal on this subject. I don't think that they want to get involved in the terms of the transaction like that.
Which is what the official statement from Wizards recommended.
It's shortsighted of you to only consider the experience of the person who opened the "god pack"
The reason why an owner might want to force you to play out the draft is so that you don't have a piss-poor experience for the other 7 drafters who don't get to complete a draft.
There's no money incentive for the owner either way.
I actually didn't suggest the God pack player drop in my post, thus the draft would continue no harm, no foul. What I was suggesting is that the player who opens the God pack get to keep it, get a replacement pack, and continue to play.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about not replacing the god pack. I'm talking about a store disallowing you from dropping and keeping your packs. You don't think that Wizards would reprimand a store that doesn't follow their policies? This is clearly stated in the MTR.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
My store has announced our policy of the player having to buy a new pack to replace. Players have offered to cover any player who has the above problem of not being able to pay for a new pack and wants to keep the God pack.
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Despite it not being the topic of the post you're responding to, your comment shows a lack of understanding of how dropping from a draft works.
Even should a player drop from a draft, the remaining players still continue the draft without them.
If there was exactly 8 players, the event would continue to be sanctioned, because it started with at least 8 players.
One player simply gets a bye each round.
I told him the official rules were updated last year to reflect this type of situation. He said he'd talk to his judge and they would review it. He is offering the player a chance to buy a new pack and draft with that so they can keep the god pack. But he was kind of leaning towards banning people who would drop from a draft and take the cards. I told him just make sure you let them take the cards so you aren't in violation of the rules.
I mean it's his store, but if he's going to ban people who follow something explicitly stated in the rules (and Modern Masters is the one draft scenario I feel should be most acceptable for you to drop from), I wouldn't expect that to help his business. It may not come up infrequently, but punishing players for opening great packs in an MMA-type scenario wouldn't get me excited to go to a store.
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Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator